2nd whistleblower comes forward after speaking with IG: Attorney
Mark Zaid, the attorney representing the whistleblower who sounded the alarm on President Donald Trump's dealings with Ukraine and triggered an impeachment inquiry, tells ABC News that he is now representing a second whistleblower who has spoken with the inspector general.
Zaid tells ABC News' Chief Anchor George Stephanopoulos that the second person -- also described as an intelligence official -- has first-hand knowledge of some of the allegations outlined in the original complaint and has been interviewed by the head of the intelligence community's internal watchdog office, Michael Atkinson.
The existence of a second whistleblower -- particularly one who can speak directly about events involving the president related to conversations involving Ukraine -- could undercut Trump's repeated insistence that the original complaint, released on Sept. 26, was "totally inaccurate."
That original seven-page complaint alleged that Trump pushed a foreign power to investigate his political rival , Joe Biden, and Biden's son, Hunter, and that unnamed senior White House officials then tried to "lock down" all records of the phone call.
"This set of actions underscored to me that White House officials understood the gravity of what had transpired in the call," the first whistleblower stated, in a complaint filed Aug. 12.
Zaid says both officials have full protection of the law intended to protect whistleblowers from being fired in retaliation. While this second official has spoken with the IG -- the internal watchdog office created to handle complaints -- this person has not communicated yet with the congressional committees conducting the investigation.
The New York Times on Friday cited anonymous sources in reporting that a second intelligence official was weighing whether to file his own formal complaint and testify to Congress. Zaid says he does not know if the second whistleblower he represents is the person identified in the Times report.
Zaid’s co-counsel, Andrew Bakaj, confirmed in a tweet Sunday that the firm is representing "multiple whistleblowers." Zaid later confirmed in a tweet that two are being represented by their legal team.
According to the first whistleblower, more than a half a dozen U.S. officials have information relevant to the investigation -- suggesting the probe could widen even further.
A transcript released by the White House of Trump's July 25 call with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskiy showed Trump asking a "favor" of the foreign leader and pushing him to launch an investigation into the Biden family. Hunter Biden was on the board of a Ukraine energy company while his father Vice President Biden led policy on Ukraine during the Obama administration, leading some to question whether there was a conflict of interest or impropriety.
"There's a lot of talk about Biden's son," Trump told Zelenskiy at one point, offering the assistance of his attorney general. He later adds "a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the attorney general would be great."
The White House cautioned that the transcript was not verbatim.
Text messages later obtained by Congress showed top U.S. diplomats dangling the possibility of a summit of the two leaders in Washington on the condition that Ukraine agrees to announce an investigation. The Ukraine government never did. The text messages were provided in congressional testimony last week by one of the diplomats, Kurt Volker , who has since resigned.
It is illegal for anyone to receive something of value from a foreign national in connection with a U.S. election, according to the Federal Election Commission. While it is not immediately clear whether Trump or other U.S. officials broke the law in its handling of Ukraine, that might not matter. The Constitution allows for Congress to decide what constitutes an impeachable offense.
Trump has denied any wrongdoing, calling the phone call "perfect."
"Like every American, I deserve to meet my accuser, especially when this accuser, the so-called "Whistleblower," represented a perfect conversation with a foreign leader in a totally inaccurate and fraudulent way," Trump tweeted Sept. 29.
The White House had no comment.
From ABC news via MSN
Photo: © The Washington Post via Getty Images, FILE National security lawyer Mark Zaid is photographed at his home in the Washington, D.C. area, July 20, 2016.
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So this man has first hand knowledge.
Yea, but Trump supporters will just wash that hand
It won't be first hand, and it will be fake.
And it won't matter because no one who matters, meaning most decent citizens and likely voters....
are weary of these political games and don't give a shyt and will tune it out like all the rest of this left wing stupidity.
You of course have proof to back that up, right?
Right, I am sure if Obama had done the exact same thing, that's what you would say.
yea, repubs would have let a Stormy Daniels slide on Obama after impeaching Clinton over lying about a BJ...
and the whistle blower DIDhave some first hand
and the second is claimed to have
much FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE
that you just don't want to hear here, or there, or anywhere
IMHO, all this does is ensure the bases are covered where they messed up the first time. There really is no need to announce they went to the IG first if they had done it correctly the first time, nor did they need to announce this person has first hand knowledge. They did this to appease the left wing base to have them continue the impeachment chant. I wonder which Congressman helped him with his compaint. Can't be Schiff since he is ass deep in his own problems with coaching "witnesses". .
The second whistleblower will summarily be dismissed because of the far left ties his lawyers have, specifically with whistleblowers unite. This group has been going around DC coaching and recruiting people to go against the President shortly after the inauguration, and are funded by left wing organizations.
My guess is if Pelosi continues with this farce, the Senate will begin their own investigation, including, as Lindsay Graham has said, to have these "whistleblowers" testify in public.
I swear. One could have all the evidence in the world, have a trial with everything laid out, trump thrown in jail yet some of you would still call it a conspiracy and proclaim his innocence.
Just once I would like some on the right to take a long hard look at what they are defending.
The embarrassment that Trump and his supporters are inflicting on this country with their nonsensical "defenses" of his behavior is off the charts.
Where did I call it a conspiracy?
You see, I am not a liberal, thankfully. I did not scream IMPEACH without even seeing the transcript of the conversation in question, as most liberals, and more importantly, Pelosi did. Hell, liberals have been screaming IMPEACH while Trump was riding the escalator to announce his candidacy.
I have been waiting for some facts to come out, and now that the FULL transcript, and the first "whistleblower's" complaint has been released, there is no there there. In addition, knowing that Schiff staff, and very possibly Schiff himself, talked to the whistleblower before he went to the IG, it reeks of setup. That's why the lawyer for this second person made it clear they went to the IG first. They want to make sure the base knows they did not make the same mistake again.
The lawyer's ties to left wing organizations do not help the case. Why can't these people go to a neutral law firm where they won't be critiqued for their leanings?
Again, IMHO, this circus is nothing more than an attempt to take attention from the soon to be released IG report of the beginnings of the Russia hoax and Durham's investigation. Not to mention Barr is overseas collecting information for his investigations that closely relate to the others mentioned.
Also, most freshmen democrats ran on one thing...to impeach Trump. Pelosi has no choice but to go through with it because she knows many of her caucus will be in trouble if they did not. That's also why she will not call for a full vote before proceding with the inquiry, They are also desperately trying to get heat off Biden for his admitting on tape he threatened the Ukranian president with withholding US funds until he fired the prosecutor looking into the company his son "coincidentally" was on the board of and raking in millions with zero knowledge of oil and energy....while his dad was VP.
Democrats know this will be ugly for them when these reports come out, and they are doing everything they can to get the heat off them before it comes.
So, one must go to a "neutral" neutered lawyer that practices slip and fall cases, and not a
Practice that is a Specialized Firm, in Whistleblower cases...?
WTF AGAIN !
Do YOU realize this is a free country where ALL can Vote their own beliefs on WHO might best make America Great for THEM !
.
ewe peeple R sheeple, that would deny any and all evidence as to the nature of an actual reality, slipped right past your openly shut closed minds
wow. A bunch of crap written right there.
Name me one Liberal that screamed impeach when he was coming down the elevator...
Bunch of convoluted bull.
I actually have an article I am going to post about Barr and his bullshit investigation. He has not even once interviewed any of the people involved. He is in cahoots with Durham in running around the world trying to discredit our own intelligence agencies and dig up dirt.
Despicable.
The only thing you have managed to say is it is all a conspiracy. Everyone is only out to get trump because they hate him.
I got a deal for you...from now on, anyone running for office can fly to another country and work with them on taking down an opponent. The next Dem president can use any country they want and withhold aid until they start an investigation.
When one wants the best litigator one does not care about their politics.
Just once I would like some on the right to take a long hard look at what they are defending.
You'll apparently believe anything if it negatively impacts Trump. The rest of us need a hard look at all the incriminating evidence.
It's the same phucking phone call, and another liar coming forward won't make a difference.
Where did I say conspiracy ANYWHERE in my posts? I didn't. Stop making up crap.
"The next Dem president can use any country they want and withhold aid until they start an investigation."
Or maybe a sitting Vice President can threaten a president of another country with withholding US funds unless that president fires a prosecutor investigating a company the VP's son "coincidentally" sits on that company's board. In fact maybe the VP can demand a time line of how long the president has to fire the prosecutor before said funds will no longer be available.
Maybe, just maybe, that president will follow through by accepting the deal of the VP. Of course, that would be an outright quid pro quo.
Wait a minute...that's already happened, but you wouldn't know it by how democrats and liberals are trying desperately to take the attention off that VP, and the liberal media is dutifully abiding by the democrat wants.
You have called the person a liar before you even know what they have to say
Riiiigghht....
That is never going to happen. They have created this monster and to disavow their creation would be to disavow who they are and what they believe in. He is a reflection of them.
You are regurgitating lies.
[Deleted]
Biden never said he was withholding funding from Ukraine until a prosecutor who was investigating his son was fired. There was no investigation going on.
[Deleted]
Alright, it was my conclusion of your post.
Sounds to me like a big smear Biden. I have done nothing wrong. It is all the Democrats trying to get me. I have my Attorney General and another investigative lawyer that are traveling the world to get evidence to show.....
We have right wingers on this site engaging in constant misrepresentations of news stories, such as the ones on this seed. There is no point in responding to this crap and if it gets worse there will be no point in responding to anything here.
What evidence? You have, I heard it from a friend, who heard it from a friend, who heard it from another...
Lay what out? What trial? FFS the clown show hasn't even impeached him yet.
It's nothing new, the triggered snowflakes on the left have been crying about President Trump since the day he was elected. Excuse me if I feel this is just more screaming at the sky.
You really didn't understand my post, did you.
Eh, I prefer screaming in the night. Might be a Maryland thing.
If I needed to hire the best litigator I could give 2 shits what their politics are.
And they are already excusing the lying pos Crooked donnie by saying he was was joking about asking China to investigate Biden
I would probably want to hire a republican. Haha
Damn, I missed where you insulted me again. Sandy is quick.
You would if you are trying to take down a politician you hate, and you need a lawyer with big ties to the party you favor.
You're wrong. I know many litigators and I could care less what their politics are so stop putting words in my mouth thank you.
Yes, I caught that earlier. They just don't seem to understand that by allowing this behavior it will only continue to happen and to escalate to far worse behavior. A good example of the craziness getting out of control started when Trump declared all mexicans murderers and rapists which led to imprisoning asylum seekers, separating children from their families, children dying under Trump's care, confiscating citizen's land, planning to build moats with alligators and snakes, and shooting people as a possible option.
These are some sick people that would support this type of immigration blueprint.
They have to bow down and kiss Crooked donnie's ass
How many times did you infer that 'they' did something for X reason?
So you missed Trump admitting it on live TV?
Meta aren't personal insults.
Please... in exact quote, where did he say that? If you can't come up with an exact quote, the rest of your post is simply BS.
How many times did you infer Trump did X thing, and was wrong EVERY time?
It's a privately owned company, there is nothing illegal about making money working for a privately owned company in a foreign country. If it was, trump's kids would all be in jail right now. Also, Hunter biden isn't running for president, so it doesn't matter anyway. Why the right wing is making a big deal of this is anyone's guess.
This is nothing more than trump's latest conspiracy theory. Is there even a shred of evidence that Biden OR his son did anything illegal in the Ukraine? No. I keep asking that question and I keep getting no answer answers. Joe Biden got a prosecutor fired because the prosecutor refused to prosecute corruption. Biden was acting in an official capacity with the backing of almost every ally we have. Trump on the other hand used the power of the presidency to get dirt on a political rival to serve his own personal reelection. To make it even worse? Trump claimed Biden was corrupt, but donny used corruption in an attempt to get dirt on Biden? The ONLY corruption in this entire story was trump.
I also found it odd that this happened long before trump was even in office, yet it only became an issue 3 weeks after Biden decided to run for president? Is that all just some wild coincidence? Unlikely.
Yet again, trump floats a conspiracy theory and his base and the extremist right wing talk show hosts bend over backwards trying to spin it into truth. Hell, when trump said windmills cause cancer, there were talk radio hosts trying to tell people that they really did cause cancer.
If that's the platform they ran on, I sure didn't hear about it. Never even heard fox news suggest it. The right for the GOP to complain about trump's impeachment inquiry flew out the window when they decided to impeach Clinton for lying about a blowjob. Trump used extortion to try to get the Ukraine to help him win a US presidential election and the GOP sees nothing wrong with it? It's ILLEGAL. If we are talking about severity of a crime, I am thinking lying about a blowjob comes in second to extortion of a foreign government to win an election every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
How many of trump's conspiracy theories have turned out to be true?
Not 'anything'. Just what he said to Ukraine and China.
I see a lot of similarities between Republicans in Congress and Toadwart.
Whatabout...
After RUSSIA inserted its' 2 nonsense into our election process that Trump has yet to believe or address, or do much about.
You have been played
To date, WHAT HAS BEEN PROVEN WRONG about what this Whistle blower did state ?, besides NOTHING
all after Trump declared it ALL fake news again, another left wing conspiracy witch that Dawg won 't hunt, as
Trump himself, proved the whistleblower Correct, but
Trump Defenders just can't Accept
.
There TRULY IS, something WRONG
The whistleblower claimed Trump offered something in return for an investigation. That is a lie.
Speaking of accept....why haven't you accepted the results of the 2016 election yet?
[Deleted]
This forum, and this country is being assaulted by constant and deliberate nonsense from Trump supporters. It is a travesty and really represents a crisis for our nation.
Chuck Todd on Meet The Press had to get into an argument with a Republican US Senator today who wanted to gaslight the audience with conspiracy theories.
[deleted]
Chucky did not fare well in that exchange. The only crisis is the one the left wing agitators are trying to start.
A sitting US Senator came on a national network news show demanding the right to peddle conspiracy theories.
We are reaching new lows.
Are you afraid of the Obama administrations action's and use of Federal agencies to influence an election being investigated??
After all, we had to deal with the Democrat's conspiracy theories about Trump colluding with the Russians and obstructing justice.
Fair's fair.
What they are afraid of is the IG and Durham's reports that will probably heavily scorch democrats, even maybe some in Congress.
They are doing everything they can to take away from the inevitable.
NO he didn't bugsy. THAT is a lie.
I guess Breitbart and Infowars didn't bother telling you how many indictments, convictions, and guilty pleas that investigation resulted in. But screw our country, it's all about worshipping your orange god.
As President Trump cannot be prosecuted. Period. You know that, RIGHT? That is why he must be impeached. Because, no man is above the law...
Fraud is a crime. Trump is a criminal.
Yet another whistle-blower will greatly lead to the impact of the statements of the first one.
Not really. The full transcript of the call has been released, and there is no there there.
What can a second person add to nothing?
WHO told YOU that
there's approximately 15 to 20 minutes missing
Not really. The full transcript of the call has been released, and there is no there there.
That's a clear-cut case of FAKE NEWS!
You guys might want to go to John Russell and tell him your conspiracy theories. He swears no one has claimed that the transcript is not real. Guess you guys proved him wrong for me.
[Deleted]
Where did N E body say the transcript wasn't real.
It has been ADMITtEDLY EDITED ! WTF yet again !
It has? Where? Show your proof. All that was said was it is a recollection of many of those on the call, a verbatim recollection. Nothing says it was edited.
Also, remember what we talked about your posts being coherent. Sketchy at best now.
Well is this coherent enough [deleted]
try something other than "news" that leaves you isolated from reality
.
Ain't got time to educate those who choose not to learn, or even recognize when they R WRONG AND YOU ARE WRONG YET AGAIN
[Deleted]
It's all been released and picked over. Go look for it and see for yourself
A 12 minute edited transcript of a 30 minute telephone conversation has been released.
Trump himself has stated that there is an official full transcript, as ask yourself why he not only refuses to release it, but why is he hiding it on a server designated highly classified intelligence.
White House confirms Ukraine transcript was moved to highly classified system: report
Trouble is that THIS PHONE CALL WAS NOT ABOUT ANYTHING CLASSIFIED!! Trump has claimed this was the full transcript, why didn't he say it was classified? BECAUSE HE HAD A DOZEN OTHER PEOPLE, or more, LISTENING IN!!!
Your excuse is empty (smelly) air, NOBODY is claiming classified info on the phone call.
And the "whistleblowers" that has filed a fraudulent complaint has admitted to having extensive work with a prominent CURRENT democratic politician. Why is that one the only one that has filed a complaint. If what you say he did is so bad, why haven't the other, almost dozen, people spoken up?
My guess is that politician is Schiff.
Funny how many Trump supporters somehow believe that they have inside knowledge that nobody else has .. and then screech loudly about how poor Trump is being attacked with fraudulent complaints.
Why haven't the other people spoken up? Because many of them, like Pompeo, are assholes who put their orange god ahead of their country. It's a very good question and I'd think you'd be a little more upset about how many people spit on their oaths to toadie up to Trump. But then, patriotism doesn't seem to get more than lip service from those with TDS who worship Trump.
It's fraudulent because the person went to Schiff's staff, and more than likely, Schiff himself before he went to the IG. That is against the rules, and due to this person's position within the White House, they should have known that. By doing so, it makes the "complaintant" a "whistleblower" sketchy at best. I think they figured what they did would not be outed, and Schiff would protect them from that. Boy, they were wrong.
Your second paragraph is simply yet another "I hate Trump because he is not Hillary" tirade.
Means nothing in the scheme of things.
wait a minute, what is the title of this seed again..?
The first WB report has been corroborated by trump, rudy and the call logs. It's that simple greg. Hell, even tucker carlson has admitted that.
Prove it. Seriously, you don't even know who they are but you know it's fake?
Trump loyalists.
And that person was told proper procedure for filing a complaint, which he did do. You're grasping for anything.
Against YOUR rules maybe, but not everyone else's. The problem is that nobody gives a crap about YOUR rules.
Why? The facts outlined in the complaint match up with the evidence.
Justice Department is protecting them as a whistle blower, not Schiff. And boy are you wrong.....again.
Bullshit. I've never been a Hillary fan. I've despised Trump for decades; he's always been a lying, bullying, narcissistic, cheating con man.
Trump said that if I voted for Hillary, I would be voting for a president that is a corrupt liar that would be under investigation from day one.
He was right.
I voted for for Hillary and I got a president that is a corrupt liar that has been under investigation since day one.
I did in 3.1.14. Apparently you missed it.
"Trump loyalists"
By that I am assuming you mean true Americans.
After Schiff and his flunkies got the info they needed to begin a propaganda campaign long before the transcript or complaint came out.
"Against YOUR rules maybe, but not everyone else's. The problem is that nobody gives a crap about YOUR rules."
There are set rules to file a whistleblower complaint. This democratic operative did not follow those established rules. It's obvious most liberals don't give a crap about established rules.
"Why? The facts outlined in the complaint match up with the evidence."
Never said they didn't. You are trying to put words in my mouth.
This person making a complaint is a democratic operative with admitting to having close working ties to a current high level democrat. That makes him/her a "whistleblower" is sketchy at best.
"Justice Department is protecting them as a whistle blower, not Schiff. "
Again, you are lying about what I said. The "whistleblower" went to Schiff and his staff first, probably with the assurance of that fact would be kept secret. He/she was told wrong.
"And boy are you wrong.....again."
Rarely am I wrong. This is no different.
I'm getting ganged up here by a bunch of libs, and winning every argument. This is fun.
Because the TDS afflicted folks can't get over the fact that Hilary lost the election
Your 3.1.14 shows you know zilch about whistleblower complaints, so using that as an example of your logic is probably not the best idea.
Equating Trump loyalists with true Americans is hilarious. True Americans wouldn't support spitting on our Constitution and possible treason, but most of his fans bow and bend over and ask for more.
I do know that whistleblower rules do not state that a complainant go first to the highly partisan chairman of the committee that will be investigating said complaint. I guess that rule does not apply if the complainant themselves is a highly partisan democratic hack who thought they could get away with going to Schiff and his staff first and not be found out about it.
Damn, I must have left the camera on my computer on again. Don't tell anybody what I'm wearing.
Evidence??? Looking...looking...nope none. Just more spam folder conspiracy theories.
Which were followed to a "T".
Once again, your opinion which is not supported by any "FACTS". Otherwise, provide a link to those official "rules" you claim he violated.
What's his name? If you don't know who he is, your above statement is a blatant LIE .
You need to reread your own statement, you said: I think they figured what they did would not be outed, and Schiff would protect them from that.
Schiff is not protecting them, you don't even know if Schiff knows who they are yet.
Your above statement is totally wrong...
Whistleblower rules state that the complainer go to the IG first, not the highly partisan chairman, or his staff, of the committee that would be investigating the complaint.
Schiff knew about the complaint long before the "complainant" went to the IG. He should not have known about it until after the IG was notified. The "whistleblower" is a democratic operative with admitted deep ties to a prominent current national democrat. I don't need to know his/her name to make that correct deduction.
More than likely, my opinion, Shiff or someone on his staff assured the complainant that him or her going to Schiff first would not be found out.
Again, I am rarely wrong, and this is no different.
Like I said: Otherwise, provide a link to those official "rules" you claim he violated.
If by true Americans you mean, supporting a president that breaks laws constantly, lies constantly and openly uses other countries to win US elections, I think you meant traitors.
sorta like the IG first went to the Whitehouse ?
R u and Bugsy into BDSM ?
McConnell vows to stop the Impeachment, mainly for his own reelection. But, even if he can, he can't stop the courts. His a$$ kissing devotion to the mentally challenged individual who now sits behind the desk in the Oval office and thinks he is the second coming of God, will not hold sway in a court of actual law.
However, as the evidence against Trump becomes more clear and the handwriting on the wall becomes more evident, he may find that more of the GOP Senators will start to worry about their own reelection possibilities as more sensible Republicans decide to put country before party for a change.
Yet, in the end, chances are, even if the Impeachment is blocked, Trump will still have to answer to the courts after his term is up and the GOP can't block their decision if Trump is found guilty.
But, right now McConnell is playing mostly to the crowd in his home state that keep electing him in place of far more qualified candidates.
JMOO
Unless the Democrats go to a formal vote for impeachment soon, the whole point will be moot. Many freshman members of the House might become concerned of their reelection chances if they vote to impeach Trump. There is simply not enough credible and real evidence to impeach Trump no badly how much those on the left want it. Everyone with a brain knows that all this is being done for purely political purpose on the misguided mission to reverse the last election; The Senate will never vote to convict anyway because everyone knows it's a silly lefty wing clown show
Best to wait until the evidence is presented before stating it is not credible, or what evidence do you have that it is not credible? Methinks you may speak too soon, unless, you have some inside information that you can share with the rest of us.
Obviously, there is something to the claim that has Trump scared enough or he would not start attacking Carte Blanche. He, nor his henchmen may not have as much pull as he likes to think.
The Senate might have the last say in his impeachment, but, not in his guilt.
You've been posting lies in favor of Trump for years now. You haven't yet been right - but Trump should sleep better at night knowing that his worshippers still won't let facts dissuade them from their groveling and adoration.
The lack of patriotism displayed by so many in here is truly mind boggling. Trump above party, party above country, and EVERYTHING above ethics and honesty.
No evidence is necessary for Trump worshippers. They just spew the Fox talking points - except even Fox is starting to admit that Trump is a charlatan.
That's funny coming from someone who posted lies about the President for three years, but yet, everything that was alleged over the fake Mueller "investigation" turned out to be lies.
He is still your President.
What lie did Mueller make
Only a person with TDS would consider all those indictments, guilty pleas, and convictions to be proof that the investigation was based on lies. Many Trump supporters seem to have no relationship with reality; they believe him when he tells them 1 + 1 equals 3. Very bizarre.
And yes, I realize this corrupt piece of shit is my president. I can only hope that people who actually value facts and honesty will keep him from being re-elected, but so much of his base have made it clear that ethics and integrity don't matter at all to them, and neither does our wonderful country - so who knows.
What lies have I posted about Trump? Please share. Remember, you can't try Trump's bullshit that anything derogatory about him is fake news - even if he was recorded saying it. Unlike his base, I understand what a fact is.
Let me guess, another conservative who didn't actually READ the Mueller report.
Carry on with russian propaganda talking points Trump continues to use.
LOL!!!
Now which investigation was based on lies again?
Mueller has more integrity than trump has by far. The only fault Mueller has is that he votes republican.
Obama was your president for 8 years.
Where did I say Mueller lied? I said things that were alleged over the investigation was a lie, ie, libs spouting bullshit without proof, then being deflated when their "we got him now" mantra deflated...many times. Stop making up shit.
BTW...Thanks for the coherent post. Maybe you can continue your track record of 1.
Very good observation, and you only had to use both hands to get to 8.
The investigation was conducted (or was supposed to have been) to find out if Trump, or anyone associated with his campaign, colluded with Russians during the 2016 campaign. With that, tell me which of those that were indicted or found guilty of something had to do with Russian collusion.
Your silence would probably be your best response.
You are LYING right here
Which are? Be specific.....if you can.
Really, what has he been found guilty of? What was he indicted with? Mueller himself said his decisions were not based on a Justice Department policy.
BTW...that's 2. You're doing good. Keep it up.
the fact that what , 5 or 6 of those indicted were trusted confidents in Trumps election and or cabinet circle (Manafort, Flynn, his lawyer, his buddy, and other close advisors)LIED about ANY contact with RUSSIA,
that most definitely was proven by our intelligence agencies, while Trump took the word of Putin, over All of them, on the world stage no less.
have you read the Mueller report..? No reply required
he was NAMED AS A CO-CONSPIRATOR/INDIVIDUAL 1
along with his lawyer
a sitting president cannot be charged, but you knew that right...
otherwise
Trump would also be in jail, but you knew that, right...
face it, you are defending a lying asshole,
our condolences
All they cared about was whether or not it proved illegal criminal conspiracy of this President, and even if it had his hardcore supporters would have been claiming it was a deep state conspiracy that framed him. They can't see the dozens of indictments and guilty pleas of nearly everyone around the President as a mark against the President. They refuse to see his public comments asking Russia for his opponents emails or telling an actual Russian spy at a rally “I believe I would get along very nicely with Putin. I don’t think you would need the sanctions". And then a few months later he says "Russia. if you're listening..." and they were as the evidence showed a huge spike in cyber attacks from Russia attempting to find Trumps opponents emails within hours of Trump making the request.
But like Trump said “I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and wouldn’t lose any voters, ok? It’s, like, incredible.”. That's how little ethics, morality and spine Trump believes his supporters have. After watching Trump shoot someone I've no doubt they would be assuming that person deserved it and Trump would be revered by them as a true vigilante and hero of their brand of justice, which would no doubt be followed by many repeating his example on all those they deem "others".
I'm sure you'd prefer that rather than having your BS pointed out.
Pointing out when a comment is bullshit is not a personal attack.
And which of those were found guilty of colluding with Russia?The answer is zero, but you knew that already.
And yes, I read the report that Mueller had nothing to do with writing
So do it then.
He was? By who?
Please don't put up Madcow, Fredo or Chris Matthew's picture up as your support.
The rest of your post?
Incoherent.
Unlikely, but how is that different than liberal loyalty to Hillary's alleged crimes?
there wasn't actually a LAW AGAINST COLLUSION,
you knew that though, right...
he was named a co defendant on charges dealing with payments to playmates and pornstars
deal with it
or prove me wrong, cause you can't
all you do is attemp;t to parse words
As incoherent as this post was, I am going to try and decipher it the best I can...so here goes.
The topic of your rant was originally the Mueller report. Show me where in that report he was named a co defendant or whatever you want to call it, not by some NY lawyer who just got slapped with a stay to keep his dick beaters off Trump's tax records.
Then why did unhinged libs scream "impeach the President because he colluded with Russia", until they found out collusion was not a crime, then changed the rant to "he obstructed".?
You do know there must be a crime to impeach the President, right. So far, the loony left has yet to come up with one.
How many of Hillary's campaign staff or those she chose to surround herself with have been indicted or plead guilty to crimes again?
It's not a great "what-a-bout-ism" when the facts look nothing alike. On one hand you had nearly a dozen partisan Republican investigations into Hillary, hours and hours of her testifying, and not a single indictment or guilty plea of any crime from anyone in her immediate orbit. The on the other hand you have Trump who went through one investigation, refused to testify and said "I don't remember" at least 30 times in the few written questions his lawyers would allow, and still the Mueller investigation has indicted, convicted or gotten guilty pleas from 34 people and three companies, including top advisers to President Trump, Russian spies and hackers with ties to the Kremlin. Mueller also detailed 10 separate counts of obstruction of justice but ultimately refused to call them "criminal obstruction" due to the Justice department ruling that he could not indict a sitting President of a crime and that only congress has oversight and the power to remove him from office which would then allow the justice department to indict him for the crimes that were carefully detailed in the Mueller report.
So, as I was pointing out, the large number of criminals surrounding someone should tell you something about that persons character. Trump had 34 people in his orbit who were indicted or plead guilty to crimes, including the man he chose as his campaign manager, many serving prison terms right now. Hillary had no one in her orbit proved to be committing crimes and lying on her behalf. So your attempted comparison falls flat on the face of it.
was there a co-defendant charged along with his lawyer,
yes or no
did said lawyer not provide a copy of a Trump check to Trump's playmate pornstar, signed by Donald Trump ,
yes or no
i'm betting you won't answer my two questions, you'll deflect, strawman, but Hillary, etc
Not entirely sure how my response to ignorantz included the post from dismayed. My apologies to dismayed.
I can't even edit or delete it.
OK, I deleted it now.
Hey, mr smarty pants, i'm gonna ask you one more time, to LIE to me some more, while not being bright enough to know who you're LYING to, some more
too funny.
do tell though, what was incoherent in Dismayed's post
Look, I'm going to ask one more time, nicely. Please put your posts in coherent sentence form so I can answer them properly. Right now, the level of intellect with your posts is diminished.
Ha!!! That's funny. I haven't been called smarty pants since the third grade. I guess I now know the intellect I am dealing with.
guess i won the bet.
cause i knew you wouldn't answer my simple questions.
Jesus this is too easy.
The CONSTITUTION says you can impeach the President for high CRIMES or misdemeanors. Anything attempted that is not a crime is liberal partisan political bullshit. You do know misdemeanors are crimes, too, right?
If you would put your inquiries into coherent, english based sentences, maybe people would be more likely to answer them. Most adults don't like to debate with, well, you know....
do you know 'dishonesty' is wikipedias first example of high crimes and misdemeanors
are you afraid ?
Why do I waste my time with this?
You do know that anyone can go on wiki and post most anything they want. How do we know YOU did not add dishonesty to the examples.
In addition, I noticed in the "examples", certain words like bribery, perjury, abuse of power and intimidation are all highlighted in blue, but words like failure to supervise and chronic alcoholism are not.
Did you do that, too?
"High," in the legal and common parlance of the 17th and 18th centuries of "high crimes," is activity by or against those who have special duties acquired by taking an oath of office that are not shared with common persons. A high crime is one that can be done only by someone in a unique position of authority, which is political in character, who does things to circumvent justice . The phrase "high crimes and misdemeanors," used together, was a common phrase when the U.S. Constitution was written and did not require any stringent or difficult criteria for determining guilt but meant the opposite . The phrase was historically used to cover a very broad range of crimes.
The Judiciary Committee's 1974 report "The Historical Origins of Impeachment" stated: "'High Crimes and Misdemeanors' has traditionally been considered a 'term of art', like such other constitutional phrases as 'levying war' and 'due process.' The Supreme Court has held that such phrases must be construed, not according to modern usage, but according to what the framers meant when they adopted them. Chief Justice John Marshall wrote of another such phrase:
Since 1386, the English parliament had used the term “high crimes and misdemeanors” to describe one of the grounds to impeach officials of the crown. Officials accused of “high crimes and misdemeanors” were accused of offenses as varied as misappropriating government funds, appointing unfit subordinates, not prosecuting cases, not spending money allocated by Parliament, promoting themselves ahead of more deserving candidates, threatening a grand jury, disobeying an order from Parliament, arresting a man to keep him from running for Parliament , losing a ship by neglecting to moor it, helping “suppress petitions to the King to call a Parliament,” granting warrants without cause, and bribery. Some of these charges were crimes. Others were not . The one common denominator in all these accusations was that the official had somehow abused the power of his office and was unfit to serve .
Benjamin Franklin asserted that the power of impeachment and removal was necessary for those times when the Executive "rendered himself obnoxious," and the Constitution should provide for the "regular punishment of the Executive when his conduct should deserve it, and for his honorable acquittal when he should be unjustly accused." James Madison said that "impeachment... was indispensable" to defend the community against "the incapacity, negligence or perfidy of the chief Magistrate." With a single executive, Madison argued, unlike a legislature whose collective nature provided security, "loss of capacity or corruption was more within the compass of probable events, and either of them might be fatal to the Republic."
According to the Constitutional Rights Foundation, "Prior to the Clinton investigation, the House had begun impeachment proceedings against only 17 officials – one U.S. senator, two presidents, one cabinet member, and 13 federal judges."
The process of impeaching someone in the House of Representatives and the Senate is difficult, made so to be the balance against efforts to easily remove people from office for minor reasons that could easily be determined by the standard of "high crimes and misdemeanors". It was George Mason who offered up the term "high crimes and misdemeanors" as one of the criteria to remove public officials who abuse their office. Their original intentions can be gleaned by the phrases and words that were proposed before, such as "high misdemeanor," "maladministration," or "other crime." Edmund Randolph said impeachment should be reserved for those who "misbehave." Charles Cotesworth Pinckney said, It should be reserved "for those who behave amiss, or betray their public trust." As can be seen from all these references to "high crimes and misdemeanors," there is no concrete definition for the term except to allow people to remove an official from office for entirely-subjective reasons."
Of liberals? Hell, I thrive on making them look stupid, like I did with 4.1.40, 4.1.39, 4.1.37, etc, etc, etc...
Again, wikipedia...How do we know you or someone else did not add things to advance a narrative.
Either way, this impeachment is a farce and politically driven, and will go nowhere, except in the annals of history where it will be noted that liberalism and the democratic party became asterisks in history.
Well, who could ever associate ANY, if not ALL, of those definitions with Trump, besides those that find you weren't succinct enough
hows that state of denial treating you ?
Heh, you schooled the arrogant one who thinks he's smarter than everyone else in here. And who now claims you went in and modified Wikipedia just to prove something most of us already knew .. those of us who are more informed than the arrogant one
You, and your little libbie friends in Congress have to have proof of any of those words you may not have understanding of.
You have none of that proof.
I can assure you I was not schooled by him, or anyone else on here. I am handling several liberals, including you, at the same time, and winning each debate.
now you're LYING to yourself,
funny, while pathetic.
You need to stop.
Now you are coming back with little snips because you, once again, got your ass handed to you.
Well, lets begin the lesson.
This is a really informative piece on the subject, read it first. Too much to post here.
Here is just one example, of course there are so many more prior to this Ukraine extortion.
stop what,
getting schooled by you...?
you are a funny liitle guy, aren't you.
On a humorous side note, this reminded me of an old joke...
A new prison inmate settles in for the night when he hears another prisoner somewhere down the hall yell out "Fifty-four!" to which the whole cell block erupts in laughter. A few minutes later another prisoner yells out "Seventy-one!" and again, all the prisoners are laughing hysterically. The new prisoner asks his cell-mate what's going on to which his cell-mate tells him "You see, we've been in here so long that we all memorized the different dirty jokes and gave them numbers, so all any of us have to do is shout out a joke number and we all remember the joke. Go ahead and try it, just yell out a number between 1 and 200". So the new inmate gives it a try and yells out "Thirty-nine!" but gets absolute silence, not even a chuckle. His cell-mate says "Give it another try" so he yells out "One hundred and fourteen!" and again, no laughter. The new inmate asks his cellmate "What the hell? Why isn't anyone laughing?" to which his cellmate replies "I guess you just can't tell a joke...".
Don't you know that whomever gets the most likes wins the debate, sheesh.
OK, normally I don't criticize sources used, but damn, man...Mother Jones? Also, it's an opinion article.Nothing factual.
That is funny, but not relevant to anything you highlighted I posted.
It's looking like the point is not to impeach him, but rather to drag him through another 18 months of prolonged accusations leading up to the election.
Welp, gotta go now. It's been fun. I gotta go to work now. If the word "work" confused any of you liberals, Websters has a good definition for you.
Do me a favor, though....don't all rush to try and get one on me because you know I won't be around. We all know that is the liberal way when they know there will be no defense.
Seems to me that the Dems are trying to move pretty quickly - it's the GOP who are dragging their feet, stonewalling and refusing to turn things over. They don't think Congress should be able to do their job of oversight, clearly. There's no reason for it to take 18 months, though.
Honestly, I hardly see the point in impeachment. I doubt we'll ever have a Congress that can be non-partisan enough to agree on whether or not to convict a President who's been impeached. The members of the President's own party are almost never going to convict; for most politicians, it's party over country (and reelection over everything). So it's a big messy slap on the wrist that really doesn't accomplish much. What did being impeached really do to Clinton, after all? He has a huge ego so it must have been hard on him - and Trump has a bigger ego so it will be harder on him - but other than bruised egos?
So you leave with an insult, and try to imply that if anyone responds to that insult, it's unfair. I guess being schooled really did upset you.
Yea, we heard, "Hillary will be arrested any day now!!!!!", for 25 years. The right never even charged her with a crime, so ya lost that one. Sorry.
it only wasn't cause ones like you, put your head in the sand, and refuse to face what you can't
Honest question. If the Mueller report was about Obama, would you be defending him?
silly question, that he chooses to avoid,
nicely done, as how much of what Trump has Gotten a Pass on,
would a Democrat have ?
Hippo critical is the skinny on that phat possibility
Trump was the one that started the 'NO COLLUSION' chant.
WRONG.
Nor do they need to.
What's even funnier is that conservatives are actually more likely to have relied on federal entitlement assistance than liberals and virtually all the most reliant States on federal assistance are deep Red States.
"when the lens shifts to political ideology, the survey finds virtually no difference in the share of conservatives (57%), liberals (53%) or political moderates (53%) who have been assisted by at least one entitlement program."
I'm sure lots of those out of work conservative miners and barely high school graduate manufacture workers like to imagine it's really the liberals wanting free stuff, as they sit on their front lawn couch opening their unemployment check, food stamps card and Medicaid notices, but the facts refute their sad and baseless premise.
You count someone collecting their social security they paid into their lives as "relying on federal entitlement assistance."
Might want to think that through.
where did he mention social security ?
The article speaks of factual actions. Actions by Trump and his goons. If you have an issue, specifically speak to what you deny he did. But obviously you didn't want to read about the Russian propaganda. Trump did the actions and you seem to want to deny he actually did them, so get to work disproving everything we know about Ukraine already. Because Trump admitted what he freaking did. And he is following the Russian propaganda line along with the gop, bots and trolls.
Seems to me their main goal is to keep the news cycle refreshed.
We're nearly two months since the complaint was filed. What have they actually done? Form a committee?
Yes, the Democrats love to use that excuse. But Trump has admitted to discussing Biden on the call. Either that was a "high crime and misdemeanor" or it wasn't.
I've never known a party to believe their president should be impeached. I realize this shocks Millennials, but it's not exactly new ground for those of us in Gen X.
I don't see the point in this instance. I would much prefer Pence to Trump, but I don't think we're talking about Watergate here.
Conviction means we've either got an extremely partisan Congress or a president has done something so awful even his own party turns on him. I like to see non-conviction as a function of Congress having a good balance of right and left and presidents keeping their shenanigans to "almost legal".
Exactly.
Not only does Trump have the Muller report with possible charges from that starring him in the face, now he has the impeachment and possible treason charges starring him in the face as well. There is evidence in both that could, and likely will, be used against him if not in impeachment, can and will be used against him in a court of law at the time he is no longer President. And all his blind worshipers will not have any sway with the judges who put the law above his political party.
The possibility of spending time behind bars from any one of the legal battles in from of him is really enough to make Trump wet his very expensive suit pants.
And the Mueller report has not been completely revealed at this point, so more could be coming from that as well. So wetting is not all Trump may be doing in his pants before it is all over with.
He made his own bed, not God, who has yet to declare Trump His chosen one. However, I have not been chosen to be one to sit at the right hand of God, so I might not have heard that declaration yet. /s
JMOO
Now Moscow Mitch is using this to solicit money for his reelection. Do not send this schmuck money.
I wish Kentucky would wake up and vote that crook out.
It's KY, the jelly state.
slipped one in , did you ?
That's the one McConnell uses to screw over those who vote for him once he is reelected.
Schiff's whistleblower's whistle...............
Ivanka and Jarrod were put into positions they weren't qualified for. Coincidence....NO.
Surely you're not saying that a shoe designer and a slum lord aren't qualified.