Antibiotics are losing their power against deadly infections. Can we fix the problem?

  
Via:  perrie-halpern  •  2 months ago  •  89 comments

Antibiotics are losing their power against deadly infections. Can we fix the problem?
Experts will discuss ways to mitigate antibiotic resistance at an upcoming panel discussion.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


By   David Freeman


It's been almost a century since the   discovery of penicillin   kicked off the era of antibiotics. Over the decades, the germ-killing drugs have saved millions of lives by making it possible to eradicate tuberculosis, pneumonia and other bacterial infections that had been scourges for millennia.

But a complex phenomenon known as   antibiotic resistance   is now sapping the drugs' curative power. Research has shown that taking an antibiotic can cause infectious bacteria in the body to develop resistance to antibiotics; these drug-resistant germs can trigger subsequent infections that are hard to treat successfully — and spread such drug-resistant infections to others.

Experts say the problem is compounded by improper use of antibiotics by doctors, hospitals and patients, as well as by farmers and others in the agricultural sector (the drugs are commonly administered to livestock, as well as to humans).

Antibiotic resistance now poses an urgent threat in the United States and around the world. Certain skin infections, sexually transmitted diseases, urinary tract infections and other ailments that once could easily have been eradicated with common antibiotics are now resistant to multiple drugs. Some "superbug" infections are resistant to all antibiotics — meaning that effective, and potentially life-saving treatment, is no longer possible.

"We're in a tough situation because of the increasing likelihood that each time you or I develop an infection that is resistant, we will have very limited [treatment] options or no options at all," says Lauri Hicks, director of the office of antibiotic stewardship at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. "Not only are we more likely to end up in the hospital, we're more likely to have a lengthy illness. Even if we survive the illness, then we're more likely to have long-term consequences."

What can be done to curb the problem? What can doctors, hospitals and patients do? How about government officials and the agricultural sector? And what's the appropriate role for pharmaceutical manufacturers working to develop new germ-killing drugs?

Hicks and three other experts on antibiotic resistance will explore these and other questions in a panel discussion to be held in Boston on Friday. The one-hour discussion, sponsored by the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, will be live-streamed on this page beginning at 12 p.m. ET.

The other panelists are Marc Lipsitch, a professor of epidemiology and the director of the Center for Communicable Disease Dynamics at the Chan School in Boston; Helen Boucher, a professor of medicine at the Tufts University School of Medicine in Boston and the director of the Tufts Center for Integrated Management of Antimicrobial Resistance; and Kevin Outterson, a professor of law at Boston University and executive director of Combating Antibiotic Resistant Bacteria Biopharmaceutical Accelerator.

The panel will be moderated by David Freeman, editorial director of NBC News MACH. Freeman has moderated a series of panels at the Chan School, including ones on   self-driving cars   and   gene editing .


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Perrie Halpern R.A.
1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.    2 months ago
For so it had come about, as indeed I and many men might have foreseen had not terror and disaster blinded our minds. These germs of disease have taken toll of humanity since the beginning of things--taken toll of our prehuman ancestors since life began here. But by virtue of this natural selection of our kind we have developed resisting power; to no germs do we succumb without a struggle, and to many--those that cause putrefaction in dead matter, for instance--our living frames are altogether immune. War of the Worlds. 

Apparently we losing our birthright by abuse of our own medicines. 

 
 
 
GaJenn78
1.1  GaJenn78  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    2 months ago

My oldest daughter, Anna, was prone to getting ear infections since her 1 month check up. When she was 5 months old, I told the Pediatrician to prescribe something other than amox, he looked at me like I was a stupid young mom who didn't know what the hell I was talking about. He reluctantly agreed and gave me some white grainy stuff that worked(HA! I wasn't so stupid for a 22 yr old mom!). She hasn't had an ear infection since she was 18 months old, and I give credit to the prevnar vax she got when she was an infant (It was suppose to help with ear infections too). Anna can still take Amox if needed but her dose has to be high because they over prescribed it instead of trying something else that I advocated for when she was little. I agree antibiotics are way over prescribed, the body has a natural way of fighting infections, Rx should only be given if its been a few days and the body isn't able to shake it.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  GaJenn78 @1.1    2 months ago

My daughter was prone to ear infections, too, and she ended up on Vancomycin which we were told was antibiotic "gold" and if this didn't stop the ear infections, she would need tubes.

She ended getting tubes in her ear canals when she was only 16 months old.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.2  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.1    2 months ago

GaJenn and Trout,

When I was a kid, I had terrible ear infections. The doc gave me good old penicillin (well I am old) and when that stopped working they took out my tonsils and androids when I was 7 and I rarely have a problem anymore. Seems they were harboring the bacteria. Nowadays, they would only take out the tonsils as a last ditch effort, since we have so many antibiotics, but what will happen when they stop working?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
1.1.3  sandy-2021492  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.2    2 months ago

I also had a lot of ear infections.  I had tubes in my ears and my adenoids out, but still have my tonsils.  My son also had lots of ear infections, and had tubes in his ears - no tonsillectomy or adenoidectomy.

We both have allergies to pollens, so we were always congested, which makes a wonderful home for bacteria.

Another reason they're slow to take out tonsils nowadays is that it has been linked to GI issues - the tonsils are one of the first lines of defense against bacteria entering the GI tract.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  sandy-2021492 @1.1.3    2 months ago

I had a lot of what they called tonsillitis when I was a kid. But I still have my tonsils and have been told by many doctors that they are YUGE!

Both of my kids still have their tonsils, too

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
1.1.5  sandy-2021492  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.4    2 months ago

My brother had his tonsils out after many bouts with tonsillitis.  My sister and I kept ours, and I first had tonsillitis as a teenager.  They don't like to take them out after puberty, as the recovery is much worse, so I still have mine, too.

My brother was always a skinny, sickly kid, until his tonsils came out.  He immediately started filling out, had better color, etc., and I think it was because he could finally eat without pain.  It's hard to get a kid with a sore throat to eat.

 
 
 
MUVA
1.1.6  MUVA  replied to  sandy-2021492 @1.1.5    2 months ago

My son gets tonsillitis 2 to 3 times a year and he is 25 they have finally decided he has to have them removed.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
1.1.7  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.1    2 months ago

My daughter had the same situation. We moved to Whidbey Island, Washington when I was in the Navy and my daughter was two years old. We were there for two years and she ran a constant series of ear infections due to the cool climate and high humidity. She was constantly on antibiotics, usually a Gantricin and Erythromycin combination for pseudomonas infections and the medicine just could not get rid of it. She had developed a resistance to them. She had PE tubes put in with no help. They finally put her on Gentamycin drops. At that time, Gentamycin was fairly new and was mostly used for the eyes. Not a whole lot was known about known about pediatric use for ear infections. We were told there was a possible risk of hearing loss. Got a humanitarian transfer to Yuma, AZ where it was warm and dry. Gentamycin worked and ear problems stopped and fortunately no hearing loss.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
1.1.8  sandy-2021492  replied to  MUVA @1.1.6    2 months ago

I hope it goes well, MUVA.  Stock up on ice cream.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
1.1.9  XDm9mm  replied to  MUVA @1.1.6    2 months ago
My son gets tonsillitis 2 to 3 times a year and he is 25 they have finally decided he has to have them removed.

Wish him well.

My son had that displeasure when he was a junior in high school.  So much for that Christmas break.

But, my wife topped that by a mile.  She had hers out when she was 56.  

It was actually the first time our son showed actual sympathy for his mom.  Everything else he just told her to suck it up and move on.  I guess having his own experience gave him the perspective he previously lacked!! 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.10  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @1.1.7    2 months ago

We were living in West Texas when she was born and lived there until she was about 4. West Texas is hot and dry, but cold in the winter.

She doesn't have any hearing loss tho there were times I thought she was hard of hearing. Turns out she was just hard headed

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
1.1.11  sandy-2021492  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.10    2 months ago

I remember my mom always being frustrated with me when I was little.  Then she had a thought, and walked up behind me while I was playing and clapped her hands.  I never knew she was there.  She thought I hadn't been listening, but I had lost some hearing from all the infections.  Temporary hearing loss, fortunately. 

But after that, she demanded that our family doctor refer me to an ENT specialist rather than put me on yet another antibiotic/antihistamine combo.  The tubes went in shortly after that.  I didn't have another ear infection until I was 28.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.12  Trout Giggles  replied to  sandy-2021492 @1.1.11    2 months ago

I'm glad your mom gave you that hearing test.

 
 
 
Kathleen
1.1.13  Kathleen  replied to  GaJenn78 @1.1    2 months ago

My daughter would get strep throat a lot. She never had her tonsils removed. For the past 5 years, she has not had it. They did put her on antibiotics every time though. I was afraid they would stop working, but it helped.  I still have my tonsils too. I wonder if they really needed to remove them like they use to all the time. My older sister had hers out.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
1.1.14  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.10    2 months ago

My late wife referred to it as selective hearing loss...

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
1.1.15  sandy-2021492  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.12    2 months ago

Me, too.  She said she felt really bad for yelling at me all the time.  She really thought I was ignoring her.  I had learned to read lips so well that nobody really suspected I couldn't hear.  To this day, I feel like I can't understand somebody as well if I can't watch them talk, even though I have minimal hearing loss (probably job-related).

 
 
 
GaJenn78
1.1.16  GaJenn78  replied to  Kathleen @1.1.13    2 months ago

I got strep a lot as a kid as well, I had tubes twice and my adenoids out. My ENT never wanted to take my tonsils out either so I still have mine as well. My right tonsil is HUGE! I always have to tell my PCP that it's normal and it's always been like that LOL 

 
 
 
GaJenn78
1.1.17  GaJenn78  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.10    2 months ago

I had hearing loss as a kid, I still do at times LOL. My tonsillitis or strep always included my ears(they are all connected LOL) which is why they put tubes in. The tubes helped stop the tonsillitis but eventually came back so I had them again with my adenoids removed. That seemed to do the trick! I still have my tonsils but the right one is huge!

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
1.1.18  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  GaJenn78 @1.1    2 months ago

When I was four, I got appendicitis.  The hospital gave me way too much and decentisized my system.   When I got a shot in MI a few months later, it triggered a massive reaction.  I am now deathly allergic to PCN.

 
 
 
GaJenn78
1.1.19  GaJenn78  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @1.1.18    2 months ago

Oh wow! I'm sorry to hear that! I'm not allergic, but I'm sensitive to Keflex, it makes my face all flush and itchy. I am able to take the other antibiotics in the penicillin family though

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
1.1.20  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  GaJenn78 @1.1.19    2 months ago

Be thankful that you can't take Keflex.  It can trigger Stephen Johnson Syndrome.

  • Stevens johnson syndrome is found among people who take Keflex, especially for people who are female, 60+ old , have been taking the drug for < 1 month, also take medication Aspirin, and have Convulsion. This study is created by eHealthMe based on reports of 9,977 people who have side effects when taking Keflex from FDA, and is updated regularly.
 
 
 
sandy-2021492
1.1.21  sandy-2021492  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @1.1.20    2 months ago

That can be triggered by many meds.  Antibiotics in general, and I believe ibuprofen is often a trigger,  but it can happen with almost anything.  Scary stuff.

 
 
 
GaJenn78
1.1.22  GaJenn78  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @1.1.20    2 months ago

Wow! Thanks for that info!

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
1.1.23  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  sandy-2021492 @1.1.21    2 months ago

I took care of 3 SJS patients when assigned to the burn center in the Army.  Skin literally falls off.  It does grow back though.  We had to wrap them in gauze soaked in silver nitrate.  They looked like mummy's.  Then we had to cover the floor and bed frames in plastic as SN stains every think it comes in contact with.  It did the trick but was just plain nasty.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
1.1.24  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  GaJenn78 @1.1.22    2 months ago

Once you have had a patient with SJS (see 1.1.23) it is a nursing memory you never forget.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
1.1.25  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @1.1.23    2 months ago

When you say silver nitrate, are you referring to Silvadene cream? Messy stuff to work with but very effective for burns.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
1.1.26  sandy-2021492  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @1.1.23    2 months ago

It can on occasion be fatal.  And I've only seen it in pathology texts, but from the pics, I'm sure that memory hangs with you.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.27  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @1.1.20    2 months ago

Paula,

I think it's important to let people know that there are many drugs that can cause SJS, including many anit depressants. You need to be informed about the possible side effects of the drugs you are using. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
1.1.28  XDm9mm  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.27    2 months ago
You need to be informed about the possible side effects of the drugs you are using. 

I laugh along with the wife when we see the 'ads' on the tube about the newest drug they're pushing.  Invariably the list of possible side effects are damn near worse than what they're purportedly helping with.

They latest and greatest laughs are the new flu drug.  If received early enough, it will shorten the time to feeling better from 3.3 days to 2.3 days, and the side effects are potentially as bad or worse.

The other one I love is the one for us older folk and possibly having joint and bone problems.  One of the indicated side effects is breaking bones!!  WTF!!!

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
1.1.29  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @1.1.25    2 months ago

No, SN is a liquid.  Silvadene cream was actually invented by the doctors I served with on the burn unit.  We used to call it Nozema plus.  It was far more humane than sulfamyolin which was like applying a burn on top of a burn.  We alternated every 12 hrs with sulfamyolin and silvadene.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
1.1.30  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @1.1.29    2 months ago

I remember when I first became a Corpsman, Furacin ointment was the standard for burn treatment. When Silvadene came along, Furacin kind of disappeared from use as Silvadene was much more effective.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2  Buzz of the Orient    2 months ago

Medical research leads to cures.  More support for medical research is needed, but please, not by increasing even more the cost of pharmaceuticals, notwithstanding the standard excuse that it is to fund the research and development of new drugs.

 
 
 
GaJenn78
2.1  GaJenn78  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2    2 months ago

Our  Publix(local grocery), and private pharmacies in my area do not charge for antibiotics or DM medications. Its hard to find places like that :-)

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2.1.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  GaJenn78 @2.1    2 months ago

Wow that is amazing. You are not kidding about that. I have a min. $10 co pay on them.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.1.2  XDm9mm  replied to  GaJenn78 @2.1    2 months ago
Our  Publix(local grocery),

Damn I miss Publix!!   We need some of them plus Wegmans here in Texas to compete against HEB (I have no idea how it was accomplished, but HEB even pushed out Kroger and other big names.)

Oh..  Walmart also doesn't charge for some antibiotics.  I don't know about the exact ones, but they have quite a few.  They also have a bunch that are priced at $4.00.  

PH...   take note!!  Sometimes it's not worth it going through insurance!!

 
 
 
MrFrost
2.1.3  MrFrost  replied to  XDm9mm @2.1.2    2 months ago
Oh..  Walmart also doesn't charge for some antibiotics. 

Add to that, Wal-Mart will not charge vets for medications. Just need a note from the prescribing doctor when you drop it off. 

 
 
 
GaJenn78
2.1.4  GaJenn78  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.1    2 months ago

They even offer a one dose Zpac for free as well. And I just found out at work yesterday when our drug rep came in, they will even do 4oz of ninja cough for free. That stuff is amazing and will knock your cough right out!

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
2.1.5  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  GaJenn78 @2.1.4    2 months ago

Great name...Ninja Cough.

 
 
 
GaJenn78
2.1.6  GaJenn78  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @2.1.5    2 months ago

Ha! I think so too!

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2.1.7  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  GaJenn78 @2.1.6    2 months ago

Me too!

 
 
 
MrFrost
2.2  MrFrost  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2    2 months ago
Medical research leads to cures.

That's true to a degree. Mostly, we treat the symptoms of a disease, not the disease itself. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2.2.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  MrFrost @2.2    2 months ago

Not all diseases are curable. Most are manageable. There are zero cures for neurological diseases and autoimmune diseases. Until gene therapy is perfected, probably only meds will minimize the damage and control these diseases.  

 
 
 
MrFrost
2.2.2  MrFrost  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.2.1    2 months ago
Not all diseases are curable. Most are manageable.

Exactly, that's why we treat symptoms, not diseases. That's my point. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2.3  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2    2 months ago
Medical research leads to cures.  More support for medical research is needed, but please, not by increasing even more the cost of pharmaceuticals, notwithstanding the standard excuse that it is to fund the research and development of new drugs.

You are 100% correct about that.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
3  FLYNAVY1    2 months ago

I doubt that we are going to be able to turn the tide of anti-biotic resistant bacteria.  Mother nature has seen fit for every organism on this planet to evolve given a change in their environment. If the change is slow enough, and the lifeform can adapt quickly enough it will, or at least it's offspring will.   

Given that bacteria have a much faster growth rate than we do, their ability to adapt to their changing environment is also greatly accelerated.  Insects with their fast reproductive rate are also well adapted to handle changes in their environment.   He humans with our slower reproductive rates correspondingly have slow adaptive rates of change.

Will we find something to take the place of antibiotics; I would say surely.  But then we will start the resistance vs effectiveness battle all over again.  Survival on this rock is not guaranteed.  You have to earn your right to survive.   

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3    2 months ago
Will we find something to take the place of antibiotics; I would say surely.  But then we will start the resistance vs effectiveness battle all over again.  Survival on this rock is not guaranteed.  You have to earn your right to survive. 

Hence my quote from "War of the Worlds". For good or for bad, we no longer practice survival of the fittest, and that is why we also a war on allergies, autoimmune disease, etc. Antibiotics in a way, have made our species weaker but letting the weaker survive, so we have to count on both new drugs and gene therapy. Mother nature is cruel and we try to fight her cruelness. Hard to tell who will win.

 
 
 
MrFrost
4  MrFrost    2 months ago

Can we fix the problem? Frankly, I doubt it because we will just end up right back here again regardless of what meds we come up with to thwart bacterial infections. The problem is multifaceted:

1) We don't finish taking all of our antibiotics. We start to feel better, so we stop taking them thinking, "well, I am better now, no need to keep taking them." WRONG. The meds likely beat the infection down enough for you to feel better, but not kill it off completely. Your body takes over and finishes off the infection. The problem is that the bacteria you were trying to kill with the antibiotics is now resistant to the antibiotics you were taking. When you have 10's of millions of people doing this, the standard antibiotics lose their efficacy, and when you catch a bug from another human....well, we start all over again, making the bacteria nearly impossible to kill. 

2) Surfaces. On rare occasions, you may see a brass knob in a public building. Back in the 40's and 50's, brass fixtures, knobs and handrails were usually made of brass. Bacteria has a hard time growing on brass. It was certainly not foolproof of course, but it did help keep bacterial infections down to a dull roar. Now? Well, brass is expensive, so society switched over to aluminum which has no ability to kill bacteria.

3) Overuse of hand sanitizers.  Pretty much # 1 above, but with hand sanitizers. Hey, I use them too, but it's just another way that helps bacteria become resistant. 

Side note. Bacteria and viruses are not the same thing. A virus can mutate and change, that's why some years the flu vaccine is effective and some years it isn't. It's also why there really is no cure for the common cold or AIDS, we can mitigate the damage, but there is no cure. So, if you are in a risk group and you get the flu, of course go to the doctor, but if you are relatively young and don't have specific risk, (asthma, COPD, etc), your best bet is rest and fluids. "Starve a fever, feed a cold"...

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor, if you are sick, go to the doctor and let them sort out what's wrong. If they give you antibiotics, for the love of God, take them until they are gone.  

Oh yea. Viruses don't like heat, that's why you spike a fever, it's your bodies way of trying to kill the virus. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  MrFrost @4    2 months ago

I was always of the opinion that the use of hand sanitizers was part of the problem antibiotic resistant bacteria which is why I never use them. Then, considering those sanitizers are really nothing more than alcohol, they tend to dry out your skin...which cracks...which lead to skin infections.

I used to be one of those who didn't use up all of my antibiotics. I've learned better. Now I take every single horse pill they give me

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.1    2 months ago

I agree with you trout. They actually did a study of farm children and found out that despite the level of bacteria they are exposed to, they have fewer allergies and less autoimmune diseases than children who live in urban and suburban areas. 

The only time I use a hand sanitizer is on the subway or railroad when I am in NYC. There are just too many illnesses on those handrails for me.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.1    2 months ago

The thing is, and you know this, those handrails are probably harboring more viruses and other goodies that hand sanitizers are absolutely powerless against. Coliform bacteria are not necessarily disease-causing, it's the type of coliform bacteria such as E coli, and then it has to be a pathogenic strain of E coli that causes an illness. And from what I've learned pathogenic E coli is actually very fragile. It has an optimal temperature, O2 level, and acidity level it can tolerate before it goes tango uniform.

That's why I roll my eyes at the hand sanitizers/towlettes at the grocery store. We even have a hand sanitizer dispenser where I work and you would think these ninnies would know better.

Everybody is so afraid of gerbies today. I played in the dirt and probably ate my share of dirt full of coliforms.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
4.1.3  sandy-2021492  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.1.2    2 months ago

I use hand sanitizer or wash my hands with antibacterial soap between patients at work, but at home, I don't use antibacterial anything, except to scrub the bathroom and kitchen counters.  I keep some sanitizer in the car for when I have to take trash to the dump, in case a bag leaks something yucky, but that's pretty much the only time I use it outside of work.

My son and I are rarely sick.

 
 
 
MrFrost
4.1.4  MrFrost  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.1    2 months ago

I used to be one of those who didn't use up all of my antibiotics. I've learned better. Now I take every single horse pill they give me

You are not alone, most people don't take all of them. Good on ya for taking all of yours. I have to start a course of ABO's today. Had some questionable moles on my back frozen yesterday so the doc ordered ABO's just to be on the safe side. 

 
 
 
GaJenn78
4.1.5  GaJenn78  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.3    2 months ago

I hate having to use hand sanitizer. We have hospital grade disinfecting wipes that we have to use twice a day to clean our waiting room and our office phones and such. I always wear rubber gloves when I have to use that stuff!

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
4.1.6  sandy-2021492  replied to  GaJenn78 @4.1.5    2 months ago
I hate having to use hand sanitizer.

We found one that has emollients and actually feels like lotion, which makes it a lot more pleasant.  It's still alcohol-based, though, so if my hands are so dry they've cracked, I avoid it because it stings like the devil. 

I'm sure health care workers prop up half of the hand lotion industry by themselves.

 
 
 
GaJenn78
4.1.7  GaJenn78  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.6    2 months ago

There are some without alcohol but they feel like you are putting soap on your hands, it's so slimy and it feels like it leaves a "film" on them. I hear it works but not as well. I keep baby lotion at my desk, I figure if it's good enough for babies.....

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
4.2  sandy-2021492  replied to  MrFrost @4    2 months ago

Also, people need to stop demanding antibiotics for colds and the flu.  Those are viral diseases, and antibiotics don't do diddly squat.  But I've known people (usually ignorant moms, TBH) who make a huge scene if they or their kids don't get the antibiotics they "need", because "I paid for this appointment, and you didn't even do anything!" and so on and so forth.  So doctors give in and write a script just to soothe the savage beast in their waiting room.

Stop that, folks.  You're going to get us all killed.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.2.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.2    2 months ago

I totally agree with you Sandy. Get your flu shot. Even if it's not quite on for this year's variation, it will diminish how badly you get the flu.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
4.2.2  sandy-2021492  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.2.1    2 months ago

Just got mine this morning.  I'll take my son to get his after school.

Last time I had the flu was 1996.  My brother gave it to me for Christmas.  Can't say it was my favorite gift that year. 

I've had my flu shot every year since then, and haven't had the flu.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.2.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.2.2    2 months ago

LOL! I got my flu shot last week and the nurse asked me how I did with the flu shot last year. I told her I got the flu.

I did. And then I shared with everybody at Christmas

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.2.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.2    2 months ago

I got something for the flu last year from my doctor. It was a series of oral medication that worked pretty good.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
4.2.5  sandy-2021492  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.2.3    2 months ago
I did. And then I shared with everybody at Christmas

Way to get on everybody's shit list jrSmiley_7_smiley_image.png

You probably had Tamiflu.  It works well to make the flu milder and of shorter duration, but there are periodic shortages, so sometimes it's hard to get because it's reserved for the elderly or compromised patients.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.2.6  Trout Giggles  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.2.5    2 months ago

It wasn't Tamiflu, tho. It was something else that has completely slipped my mind.

Yeah, we went to my daughter's house for Xmas and I was so miserable. She came down with it a few weeks later and then passed it on to her friend. I was like "you're welcome"

 
 
 
lady in black
4.2.7  lady in black  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.2    2 months ago

I never get the flu shot...I've only had the flu once and didn't even know it....I had a regular checkup doctors appt. and they are the ones who informed me that I had the flu. They did give a script (can't remember what for) to fight it.  Then I had to make a new appt. for my regular check up.

 
 
 
MrFrost
4.2.8  MrFrost  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.2    2 months ago
Also, people need to stop demanding antibiotics for colds and the flu.

^^^^^^^^ Bingo. I forgot to add that part and my edit time had expired. Thanks Sandy! 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.2.9  Trout Giggles  replied to  MrFrost @4.2.8    2 months ago

About once a year I get a severe case of bronchitis. It's almost always viral, but I go to the doctor to make sure that I don't have pneumonia. I pretty much argue with the doctor when he/she gives me antibiotics for a viral infection and then they look at me like "who has the medical degree here?"

 
 
 
MrFrost
4.2.10  MrFrost  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.2.1    2 months ago
Get your flu shot.

Sound advice. I resist getting mine until mid November...ish. It's only good for ~3 months, (opinions vary), and the flu season in my neck of the woods runs from mid October to March ish. So I try to aim for the middle of the worst months. 

Something many people don't know about the flu vaccine;

It's based on last years flu virus. So next years flu vaccine will be based on this years virus. They look at how the flu virus mutates year to year, then develop a vaccine for the next year based on their data. It literally is an, "educated guess". That's why sometimes it works well and other times...not so much. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
4.2.11  MrFrost  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.2.9    2 months ago
It's almost always viral, but I go to the doctor to make sure that I don't have pneumonia.

Good call. Pneumonia kills people and we want you around. 

when he/she gives me antibiotics for a viral infection and then they look at me like "who has the medical degree here?"

Crikey... SMH. Just ask them how antiBIOTICS, help with a viral infection. Laugh at their BS answer, then suggest they take biology 205 and 206 again. 

 
 
 
Kathleen
4.2.12  Kathleen  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.2.1    2 months ago

My husband, daughter and I got ours last week. Waiting one more week for it to take hold.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.2.13  Trout Giggles  replied to  MrFrost @4.2.10    2 months ago

I swear the CDC has a dart board with all the strains on it and throw darts until one gets the majority of the hits

 
 
 
GaJenn78
4.2.14  GaJenn78  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.2.1    2 months ago

Flu shot is mandatory at my work. Thankfully they give it to us for free even though my insurance will cover it as well since it's preventative. 

 
 
 
GaJenn78
4.2.15  GaJenn78  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.2.13    2 months ago

jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif  This is probably not very far off!!!

 
 
 
GaJenn78
4.2.16  GaJenn78  replied to  MrFrost @4.2.11    2 months ago

I lost my Dad a couple years ago to Pneumonia 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
4.2.17  sandy-2021492  replied to  GaJenn78 @4.2.16    2 months ago

I'm sorry, Jenn.

 
 
 
Kathleen
4.2.18  Kathleen  replied to  GaJenn78 @4.2.16    2 months ago

I am sorry to hear that Jenn...(((hugs)))

 
 
 
GaJenn78
4.2.19  GaJenn78  replied to  Kathleen @4.2.18    2 months ago

Thanks, Kath :-)

 
 
 
GaJenn78
4.2.20  GaJenn78  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.2.17    2 months ago

Thank you, Sandy. It's been a couple years, but we were close, so it hit me pretty hard. I have him on my mantel so I still chat with him :-)

 
 
 
GaJenn78
4.2.21  GaJenn78  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.2    2 months ago

THIS! so much THIS!!!!

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.2.22  Trout Giggles  replied to  GaJenn78 @4.2.20    2 months ago

I like that you have him on your mantel. Sorry for your loss. My dad passed away about 9 years ago and I still miss him a lot

 
 
 
GaJenn78
4.2.23  GaJenn78  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.2.22    2 months ago

Thanks Giggles :-), I lost my Miller a few years before Daddy (they were buds), so I have my cat sitting on top of Dad too LOL

 
 
 
GaJenn78
4.2.24  GaJenn78  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.2.22    2 months ago

Sorry about your dad too. It doesn't matter how old we are, it's still hard

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.2.25  Trout Giggles  replied to  GaJenn78 @4.2.24    2 months ago

Thanks. It is hard

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.3  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  MrFrost @4    2 months ago

All very true Mr. F. We can only hope for newer drugs and hope that doctors and people start to wake up to the truth that we over use these drugs

 
 
 
MrFrost
4.3.1  MrFrost  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.3    2 months ago

All very true Mr. F. We can only hope for newer drugs and hope that doctors and people start to wake up to the truth that we over use these drugs

Education is important. It's on the doctors to explain why it's important to take all of your antibiotics. But I totally agree, let's hope through education and better meds, we can dig ourselves out of the hole we are in. 

 
 
 
cjcold
4.3.2  cjcold  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.3    2 months ago

Don't forget that eating meat also causes antibiotic resistance due to overuse by ranchers and feed lots.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
4.3.3  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  cjcold @4.3.2    2 months ago

The good news about that is that recently a lot of attention is being seen about "plant-based" meat.  There are startups producing it and a couple fast food franchises are experimenting with serving it.

 
 
 
cjcold
4.3.4  cjcold  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.3.3    2 months ago

Been eating grass fed beef my whole life. Grew up on a ranch.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
4.3.5  sandy-2021492  replied to  cjcold @4.3.2    2 months ago

It's not just eating meat.  Those antibiotics and the bacteria resistant to them end up in our waterways, and from there, they can get almost anywhere.  The antibiotics pass through livestock's bodies the same as they do through ours - they really aren't broken down by our bodies.  What goes in comes out pretty much unchanged.

 
 
 
GaJenn78
4.3.6  GaJenn78  replied to  cjcold @4.3.2    2 months ago

Aren't most farms shying away from using antibiotics and hormones? When I buy meat, I make sure it says no hormones or antibiotics used. But hell, you never know if the labels are truthful or not.

 
 
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