Trump Betrayed the Kurds. He Couldn’t Help Himself.

  
Via:  john-russell  •  one month ago  •  69 comments

Trump Betrayed the Kurds. He Couldn’t Help Himself.
Individuals like Donald Trump, who chronically betray others, are incapable of authentic relationships or genuine human connections. They view other people solely in transactional terms. For malignant narcissists, they themselves are the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



Betrayal is a leitmotif for this president’s entire life. Think of how he cheated on his wives .

Think of the infant child of a nephew who had crucial medical benefits withdrawn by

Trump because of Trump’s retaliation against his nephew over an inheritance dispute . Think

of those who enrolled at Trump University and were defrauded . Think about the contractors

whom Trump has stiffed. Think of Jeff Sessions, the first prominent Republican to endorse

Trump, whom Trump viciously turned against because Sessions had properly recused himself

from overseeing the investigation into whether Russia had intervened in the 2016 election.

Think about those who served in Trump’s administration—Rex Tillerson, John Bolton, Don

McGahn, Reince Priebus, Gary Cohn, James Mattis, and many more—who were

unceremoniously dumped and, in some cases, mocked on their way out the door.


Trump Betrayed the Kurds. He Couldn’t Help Himself.


PETER WEHNER   OCTOBER 15, 2019

Jonathan Ernst / Reuters

President Donald Trump’s betrayal of the Kurds stung deeply. “They trusted us and we broke that trust. It’s a stain on the American conscience.” These, according to   The New York Times , are   the searing words   of an Army officer who has worked alongside the Kurds in northern Syria.

Kurdish forces played a central role in aiding the United States in fighting the Islamic State. But in a phone call a week ago Sunday, Trump gave the green light to Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan to invade northern Syria—and, in the process, to engage in what even one of Trump’s most loyal supporters, Senator Lindsey Graham, describes as the “ ethnic cleansing ” of the Kurds.

According to Jennifer Griffin and Melissa Leon of Fox News, Trump   was supposed to tell Erdoğan   to stay north of the border, but instead “went off script.” By Wednesday, the Turkish offensive began, with   Erdoğan ’s aim to push back the Syrian Kurds from the border region. The results have been   swift and brutal : the displacement of   more than 100,000 people , executions and war crimes, the escape of hundreds of Islamic State prisoners. (If Islamic State fighters escape, they’ll “be escaping to Europe,” Trump   said   last week—as if Europe’s problems don’t affect the United States.) For the Kurds, the consequences of America’s policy change will only get worse. “I don’t know how many people will die. A lot of people will die,” a senior military source   told Fox News . Yesterday the Trump administration tried frantically to make Turkey stand down, but enormous damage has already been done.

For once, Republicans have forcefully spoken out against Mr. Trump. Graham   said   our Kurdish allies had been “shamelessly abandoned by the Trump administration.” Representative Liz Cheney of Wyoming, the third-ranking Republican in the House,   said   Trump’s decision is having “sickening and predictable” consequences. Representative Adam Kinzinger, an Air Force veteran, said on   Face the Nation   that “leaving an ally behind … is disheartening, depressing.” He   added , “The Kurds found out on Twitter, for goodness’ sake. We have left them to the wolves. And the message this is sending to our allies around the world, I think, is really going to be bad.” Senator Mitt Romney, the Republican lawmaker who has been the most willing to speak the truth about Trump,   declared on Twitter , “The President’s decision to abandon our Kurd allies in the face of an assault by Turkey is a betrayal.”

Indeed it is. But betrayal is hardly new to Trump, who routinely abandons people who trust in him or the nation he leads. By now, this behavior should come as a surprise to exactly no one.

Betrayal is a leitmotif for this president’s entire life. Think of how he cheated on   his wives . Think of the infant child of a nephew who had crucial medical benefits withdrawn by Trump   because of Trump’s retaliation against his nephew over an inheritance dispute . Think of those who enrolled at Trump University and were   defrauded . Think about the contractors whom Trump has stiffed. Think of Jeff Sessions, the first prominent Republican to endorse Trump, whom Trump   viciously turned against   because Sessions had properly recused himself from overseeing the investigation into whether Russia had intervened in the 2016 election. Think about those who served in Trump’s administration—Rex Tillerson, John Bolton, Don McGahn, Reince Priebus, Gary Cohn, James Mattis, and many more—who were unceremoniously dumped and, in some cases, mocked on their way out the door.

Also think of how Trump has disparaged his own country while making excuses for strongmen. When MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough said Vladimir Putin “kills journalists, political opponents, and invades countries,” Trump   replied   that “at least he’s a leader.” Besides, Trump asserted, “I think our country does plenty of killing also.” And when asked whether Erdoğan was exploiting the coup attempt to purge his political enemies, Trump did not call for the Turkish leader to observe the rule of law, or Western standards of justice. “When the world sees how bad the United States is and we start talking about civil liberties, I don’t think we are a very good messenger,” he   said .

As McKay Coppins   put it   in   The Atlantic   shortly after the president was sworn in, “Trump built his success on his willingness to toss aside mentors, friends, and family members during moments of frustration and chaos.” Serial betrayal is a central trait of Trump’s character, and his critics warned from the start against elevating such a person to the nation’s highest position of public trust. When the consequences are the serial humiliation of Cabinet secretaries and White House aides, they are easier for Trump’s political supporters to rationalize or overlook. But as the professor Robert King once declared, “Betrayal is a garment without seams.” The danger is far plainer when the victims of Trump’s betrayal are longtime American allies facing deadly force.

Individuals like Donald Trump, who chronically betray others, are incapable of authentic relationships or genuine human connections. They view other people solely in transactional terms. For malignant narcissists, they themselves are the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. Other human beings don’t have inherent dignity; their worth is determined solely in terms of what they can do for the person who is the betrayer. If the answer is nothing, then others are dismissed, discarded, and abandoned. There is no empathy, no sympathy, no guilt or shame.

The Kurds were a mere afterthought to Donald Trump. Turkey’s Erdoğan is the type of authoritarian leader who can easily manipulate the president. Erdoğan wanted something done, and Trump was willing to do it.

A year ago, President Trump was praising the Kurds as “great” allies, vowing to protect them. “They fought with us. They died with us,” Trump   said . “We have not forgotten.” But just a few days ago, he dismissed the Kurds   this way : “They didn’t help us in the Second World War. They didn’t help us with Normandy, as an example.”

President Trump doesn’t interpret his abandonment of America’s faithful and intrepid Kurdish ally as betrayal because he can’t even understand why betrayal is a vice. It’s like trying to explain color to a person born with no eyesight. He doesn’t appear to comprehend that a relationship without trust is not a true relationship; it’s merely an exchange of needs—and President Trump will betray anyone who no longer serves his needs.

“We should expect our current president to betray anyone or any principle or any norm or any ally whenever he has the impulse to do so,” a friend of mine who is a psychologist told me. (To make sense of the Trump years, an understanding of psychology is at least as helpful as an understanding of politics.) “This should scare us all, and there’s no evidence he is capable of deferring to someone else when his relationship indifference could (again) cost lives.”

My friend went on to say, “Expect betrayal, because [Trump] does not know what that even means.”

The betrayal won’t stop with the Kurds. Every individual, every institution, every government agency, and every American ally could meet a similar fate. Donald Trump’s loyalty runs exactly as deep to his fellow citizens, the rule of law, the Constitution, America’s best traditions, and traditional codes of honor and decency as it does to his previous wives, to his former aides, and to those he has done business with. “A stain on the American conscience” isn’t just a characterization of what Trump did to the Kurds in northern Syria. It may also prove to be a fitting epitaph for the Trump presidency as a whole.


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JohnRussell
1  seeder  JohnRussell    one month ago
 “Trump built his success on his willingness to toss aside mentors, friends, and family members during moments of frustration and chaos.” Serial betrayal is a central trait of Trump’s character, and his critics warned from the start against elevating such a person to the nation’s highest position of public trust. 
 
 
 
It Is ME
2  It Is ME    one month ago

NATO betrayed the Kurds. NATO is allowing another NATO nation to do what they are doing right now. 

Funny ….. I didn't know the U.S.A. was the ONLY real member in NATO.

Who knew ? jrSmiley_87_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Krishna
2.1  Krishna  replied to  It Is ME @2    one month ago
Funny ….. I didn't know the U.S.A. was the ONLY real member in NATO.

Comments like that, coming from you, should come as no surprise to us. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
2.1.1  It Is ME  replied to  Krishna @2.1    one month ago
Comments like that, coming from you, should come as no surprise to us.

That's the best rebuttal you have ?

What about those other members of NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization)anyway. Are they totally exempt from EVERYTHING that needs to be accomplished in this world ?

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
2.2  FLYNAVY1  replied to  It Is ME @2    one month ago

NONE of this situation with the Kurds/Syria would be happening if your Messiah Trump hadn't made a call to Erdogan giving him the green light to go butcher people.  

Trump is 100% responsible, for changing the status quo.  You want to blame everyone else but the person who gave the order.

It's not NATO that gave the order, it's your Messiah Trump that gave the order to pullback.

It's not the man in the moon who gave the order, it's your Messiah Trump that gave the order to pullback

It's not the MSM that gave the order, it's your Messiah Trump that gave the order to pullback.

It's wasn't Perrie, or John, or me, or even you that gave the order, it's your Messiah Trump that gave the order to pullback. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
2.2.1  It Is ME  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @2.2    one month ago
Trump is 100% responsible, for changing the status quo.

Thank Goodness ! jrSmiley_12_smiley_image.gif

Trump didn't start the Syria mess....(Dems don't care)jrSmiley_76_smiley_image.gif

Trump has been telling NATO Nations to get more involved since his election....(Dems hated it)jrSmiley_42_smiley_image.gif

NATO Nations aren't getting any more involved than "Word Salad" …… (Dems Luv it)jrSmiley_24_smiley_image.gif

Someone has to finish it for a change...…jrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gif

Trump is FINISHING IT …… (Dems Hate that)jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2.2.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  It Is ME @2.2.1    one month ago

He sure the hell did. Everything was stable there until Trump told the troops to pull back after a convo with Erdogan the Islamist. Funny how easily you can call Obama that, yet you are OK to our president kowtowing to one. 

It's wasn't Perrie, or John, or me, or even you that gave the order, it's your Messiah Trump that gave the order to pullback. 

There you go!

 
 
 
It Is ME
2.2.3  It Is ME  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.2.2    one month ago
He sure the hell did.

I said so ! jrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

"Everything was stable there"

You're kidding.....right ?

"Erdogan the Islamist"

This so-called "Islamists", is part of NATO !

Speak to NATO....like Trump has done (Dems hated what he told NATO members though) !

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2.2.4  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  It Is ME @2.2.3    one month ago

They are part of NATO since there is no way to kick them out. Did you know that? They also do business with Russia. How cozy.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.2.5  XDm9mm  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @2.2    one month ago
NONE of this situation with the Kurds/Syria would be happening if your Messiah Trump hadn't made a call to Erdogan giving him the green light to go butcher people.

Have you considered that "NONE"  of this situation with the Kurds/Syria would be happening if Obama had not put American troops into Syria in the first place?

President Obama is directing the Pentagon to send special forces into Syria to advise the Syrian opposition in its fight against ISIS , the White House said today. Source:  https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-obama-putting-boots-ground-syria/story?id=34852515

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2.2.6  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  XDm9mm @2.2.5    one month ago
Have you considered that "NONE"  of this situation with the Kurds/Syria would be happening if Obama had not put American troops into Syria in the first place?

Yes I did. I also remember when people complained that Obama drew redlines that he didn't follow through with. Even I was not happy with that since I thought it made us look weak. Either do something or don't, but don't make a threat that you will not follow through with.

As for putting them there, he did so to keep detention camps there and not here and to keep ISIS at bay, which was no easy task, and one that the Kurds did for us. We did not do the fighting. We were only there to advise and that is why those on the ground there are against what just happened.

 
 
 
It Is ME
2.2.7  It Is ME  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.2.4    one month ago
They are part of NATO since there is no way to kick them out.

Actually....they can ….if anyone had some guts  to get them out ! 

The Good Guys in the G8 (Now G7) kicked Russia out, why can't the good guys in NATO kick Turkey out ?

"They also do business with Russia.".....

Before they didn't ?

Which country doesn't do business with Russia….. really ?

Is Germany (A NATO NATION) the only country that still "NEEDS" natural gas from Russia ?

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.2.8  XDm9mm  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.2.6    one month ago
As for putting them there, he did so to keep detention camps there and not here and to keep ISIS at bay,

But per Obama ISIS (deash) was the JV team and was well contained.  ISIS didn't pose a threat any longer.

Hell, if that was the case, why not imprison them in Iraq as that was the original genesis when the Iraq military was disbanded by Bush.  

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
2.2.9  FLYNAVY1  replied to  It Is ME @2.2.1    one month ago

Deflect.... Obama!  Deflect...… NATO   Deflect..... Democrats!

You missed one of your standard lines...… But Hillary!

Trump is FINISHING IT 

Yep... By throwing an ally that bled for us, their wives, and children to the wolves.

Sorry that morality and character aren't things you equate with America.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
2.2.10  FLYNAVY1  replied to  XDm9mm @2.2.5    one month ago

Whataboutisms are all fine and dandy XD, and sure decisions in the past led to this situation sucked, but this sure as hell isn't a competition to see who can make the worst decision.

This is about character, morality and leadership in the here and now. 

Trump gave the order that started this chain reaction.  Till then, the status quo was keeping Turkey on their side of the border, ISIS on the run, and the Kurds safe as our allies. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
2.2.11  It Is ME  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @2.2.9    one month ago
Sorry that morality and character aren't things you equate with America.

Really ?

Seems "Morality" in this country is subjective …. depending on the political subject of the time !

Trump doesn't worry about politics ….which just "Burns" the "Left" to no end ! jrSmiley_68_smiley_image.png

"Deflect.... Obama!  Deflect...… NATO   Deflect..... Democrats!"

"Ignorance" really is "Bliss" ? jrSmiley_20_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
2.2.12  FLYNAVY1  replied to  It Is ME @2.2.11    one month ago

I'm guessing by your the sophistication of your responses, you're too young to have taken  Oath of Enlistment, thus you've never been exposed to the POW Code of Conduct and the articles contained therein.  

I can only suggest that you challenge yourself to grasp the morality that is uniquely American that both the oath and the code contain.  It is with hope that  you can then communicate on this very serious topic with a greater degree of respect for the gravity of the matter.

Good luck.  

 
 
 
It Is ME
2.2.13  It Is ME  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @2.2.12    one month ago
I'm guessing by your the sophistication of your responses, you're too young to have taken  Oath of Enlistment, thus you've never been exposed to the POW Code of Conduct and the articles contained therein.  

Weak response.

I guess in your mind….if no one actually "Served" (you don't know me anyway jrSmiley_100_smiley_image.jpg ), they should NEVER have an opinion, and should NEVER run for political office either ?

What is really "Moral" when it comes to Wars anyway ? One bullet strategically placed, for a "Sensitive" kill ?jrSmiley_87_smiley_image.gif

Maybe "Safer Bullets" are warranted, like Joycelyn Elders advocated for, so WAR wouldn't be HELL ?

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
2.2.14  FLYNAVY1  replied to  It Is ME @2.2.13    one month ago

No... That's what I get for trying to engage a child like response with an adult approach.

Just another example that it is impossible to shame a Trump supporter.  The concept of character and morality just isn't going to register with him or them.

It's going to be difficult for you to grasp what America use to represent to world until you put the needs of that which is America ahead of yourself.  And you're not likely to ever do that.  I'll leave you to yourself to sit in judgement of your actions, comments, and lack of empathy.

 
 
 
It Is ME
2.2.15  It Is ME  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @2.2.14    one month ago
No... That's what I get for trying to engage a child like response with an adult approach.

Like the above comment ….

or.....

using comments like this:

"you're too young to have taken  Oath of Enlistment, thus you've never been exposed to the POW Code of Conduct and the articles contained therein. "

Good try at being an adult though ! jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

Maybe go for that …..'Did you enlist" or "have you been in battle" thingy again. That worked great ! jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Raven Wing
2.2.16  Raven Wing  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @2.2.14    one month ago
Just another example that it is impossible to shame a Trump supporter. 

Just as hard as it is to try and talk sense to a Trump supporter. Both are impossible. As it takes sense to feel shame.

 
 
 
Ronin2
2.2.17  Ronin2  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.2.2    one month ago
Everything was stable there until Trump told the troops to pull back after a convo with Erdogan the Islamist.

Stable in a country that has been been fighting a proxy civil war for 8 years? 

A place where US forces are operating in close proximity to Syrian government forces, Russian mercenaries, and Iranian militias. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/world/middleeast/american-commandos-russian-mercenaries-syria.html

https://www.thedailybeast.com/report-us-forces-killed-more-than-200-russian-fighters-in-syria-attack

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/11/26/americans-and-russians-have-exchanged-gunfire-in-syria-more-than-once/

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-troops-who-repelled-russian-mercenaries-prepare-more-attacks-n855271

Where US air force and Navy ships trade close proximity fly byes with Russian air craft.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/watch-these-russian-jets-run-simulated-attack-profile-navy-destroyer-50672

https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/16/us/russia-us-ship-fly-by/index.html

https://taskandpurpose.com/17-russian-jets-buzz-british-destroyer

https://www.stripes.com/russian-fighter-jets-buzz-navy-destroyer-in-baltic-sea-1.404326

The US is in Syria illegally. The War on Terror is recognized by no one outside of the US. Obama never went to the UN or received permission from the Syrian government. Syria has requested US, French, and Turkish troops depart Syria.

Oh, and this isn't some spure of the moment decision. Trump has been talking about it for two damn years.

https://www.france24.com/en/20190223-usa-withdraw-troops-syria-trump-france-uk-military-kurds

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/25701/syrian-standoff-kurds-ask-assad-for-help-fighting-turkish-forces-as-americans-leave

Kurdish fighters have allowed Syrian government forces into the outskirts the strategic northeastern city of Manbij to try to block Turkish-supported groups . This is the most visible outcome so far of U.S. President Donald Trump’s decision to hastily withdraw American forces from the country. However, U.S. troops are still in the process of leaving and it’s unclear whether other members of the international coalition fighting ISIS remain in the area, any of who may be at risk of getting caught up in any ensuing fighting. The Kurdish People’s Protection Units, or YPG , issued a statement welcoming the Syrian Arab Army into Manbij on Dec. 28, 2018 . The Syrians issued their own, triumphantly declaring their arrival from the southwest, on the same day . This comes as Turkish forces and the Turkish-backed Free Syrian Army, or TFSA , have begun moving toward the city from the northwest, with the goal of uprooting the Kurdish fighters, which Turkey views as terrorists that threaten its national interests.

So where are supposed great allies the French and British; well they beat the US out the door! No US to do the heavy lifting and they wimp out. Despite promises.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/07/09/britain-france-agree-to-send-additional-troops-increase-syria-us-withdrawal-uk/

In a major victory for U.S. President Donald Trump’s national security team, the United Kingdom and France have agreed to send additional forces to Syria to pick up the slack as U.S. troops withdraw, sources familiar with the discussions told Foreign Policy .

Britain and France, the only other U.S. partners that still have ground forces in Syria, will commit to a marginal 10 to 15 percent troop increase, a U.S. administration official confirmed. Other countries may send small numbers of troops as well, but in exchange the United States would have to pay, the official said.

Neither the timeframe for the deployment nor the exact number of additional troops is clear, the official said, adding that “overall we have been disappointed” in efforts to persuade U.S. allies to commit additional resources to the ongoing fight against the Islamic State terrorist group in Syria.

In addition to Britain and France, Italy is close to a decision on whether or not to send additional forces, and a number of Balkan and Baltic states are “almost certain to send handfuls of soldiers each,” according to a separate source with knowledge of the discussions.

Trump announced the United States would completely withdraw from Syria in December 2018, a move that prompted the resignation of then-Defense Secretary James Mattis and other top officials. However, he has since partially reversed course , agreeing to leave a small U.S. footprint in the country.

While it is a success for the administration, the marginal increase of U.K. and French troops likely won’t completely fill the gap left when U.S. forces leave. The U.S. footprint in Syria is expected to drop from an estimated 2,000 troops to just 400; the exact number of British and French forces in the country is unknown, but the second source estimated each country currently has just 200 to 300 troops there.

The news comes a day after Germany rejected a similar U.S. request to send ground troops to Syria, where war has been ongoing since 2011. The German military currently provides reconnaissance jets, a refueling aircraft, and other noncombat military assistance to the fight against the Islamic State, according to German media.

Yet no one is blasting Britain or France for failing to live up to their commitment. Nor are they blasting NATO, who by all rights should be running this operation. Again, no US, and NATO wimps out.

The Kurds have now joined Syrian government forces- which is what I called for long ago; but the US presence in Syria gave them the false hope that Assad would be removed. Now maybe the damn civil war will finally start to wind down!

Not every world situation needs the US special touch. Sometimes we should just stay the damn hell out!

 
 
 
Ronin2
2.2.18  Ronin2  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.2.4    one month ago

There is no way now; but NATO can amend that. Also, that doesn't prevent any NATO member from putting sanctions on Turkey, or NATO excluding Turkey from all operations.

https://www.stripes.com/news/europe/kick-turkey-out-of-nato-it-wouldn-t-be-easy-1.602661

During the course of NATO’s history, members have fallen out of favor numerous times and debates have swirled about how to deal with a recalcitrant ally.

In 1974, allied leaders discreetly debated suspending Portugal’s membership in NATO following a leftist coup, Benitez said.

Instead, the Portuguese were quietly sanctioned and excluded from most NATO activities during 1974-1975.

“The historical record is that NATO deals with these problems by privately sanctioning the member violating alliance values, but does not officially terminate their membership,” Benitez said.

Ultimately, NATO leaders wait out the misbehaving national leaders until a government consistent with alliance values eventually returns to power, he said.

“It is important to note, that in these cases NATO members act more strongly outside of the alliance, through their bilateral relationships with the offending government,” Benitez said.

For example, the U.S. Congress cut off military aid to Turkey after it intervened in Cyprus in the 1970s. Turkey responded by cutting off American access to military bases in the country.

A current example would be Norway, which on Thursday announced it will block exports of military equipment to Turkey.

Inside NATO, there are other steps allies can take to punish a member, such as withholding information and excluding them from alliance meetings, Benitez said.

For its part, NATO continues to emphasize that Turkey is an ally in good standing.

“Turkey is a valued ally,” said a NATO official, speaking on customary condition of anonymity. “We have deep relations that allies built over decades.”

On the issue of how the alliance would go about expelling a member, the official said, “this is a hypothetical question, which would be a matter for the parties to the treaty to determine.”

 
 
 
dennis smith
2.2.19  dennis smith  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @2.2    one month ago

The two warring factions have been going at it for hundreds of years. Trump inherited the ongoing wars in 2016. Finally America has a POTUS who is not going to let this continue with American troops in Syria and you bitch about it.  

He is sending more troops to Saudi Arabia and I think that is wrong.

NATO relies on the US to do the dirty work and pay NATO a greater % of money than other members. 

America has been NATO's stooge for far too long and at least Trump is trying to get them to step up to the plate which is something prior presidents did not have the balls to do.

NO MORE endless wars for America's troops. Get in, win and get out or don't go in at all.

 
 
 
devangelical
2.2.20  devangelical  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.2.2    4 weeks ago

meh, the poor guy has a life long history of pulling out early

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.2.21  Tessylo  replied to  It Is ME @2.2.1    4 weeks ago

Jesus someone is going into emoji overload.  Make it stop!

 
 
 
lib50
2.3  lib50  replied to  It Is ME @2    one month ago

Trump betrayed the Kurds and is personally responsible for the consequences, from escaping members of ISIS to lost respect and trust in the world.  Our military are ashamed.  For shame on republicans who support this treason.  The one who wins?  Putin.  And you can look up why if you want to know the truth. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
2.3.1  It Is ME  replied to  lib50 @2.3    one month ago
Trump betrayed the Kurds

Obama betrayed the "Kurds". Obama drew the "Redline", probably 3 or 6 times before he skulked away in disgrace, and turned it over to the "Geo-political inept" RUSSIANS ! jrSmiley_18_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
2.3.2  FLYNAVY1  replied to  It Is ME @2.3.1    one month ago

Again, more candyazz deflection..... Obama....Bengazhi….her emails.

Trump gave the order in the here and now that set the current day events in motion. 

TRUMP GAVE THE ORDER that is the cause of the Kurds being slaughtered as we speak.

 
 
 
It Is ME
2.3.3  It Is ME  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @2.3.2    one month ago
Again, more candyazz deflection..... Obama

Must have been Trump that left Syria and handed it over to the Russians. jrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
lib50
2.3.4  lib50  replied to  It Is ME @2.3.3    one month ago
Must have been Trump that left Syria and handed it over to the Russians

Yep.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/putin-is-the-new-king-of-syria-11571264222

By giving Turkey a green light to invade northern Syria, the U.S. upended the balance of power in the Middle East with a single stroke. Russia is the biggest winner.
 
 
 
Ronin2
2.3.5  Ronin2  replied to  lib50 @2.3.4    4 weeks ago

So who opened the door and let Russia into Syria? It damn sure wasn't Trump he wasn't in office yet.

That would leave......

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.3.6  Tessylo  replied to  lib50 @2.3.4    4 weeks ago
'Must have been Trump that left Syria and handed it over to the Russians'

'Yep.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/putin-is-the-new-king-of-syria-11571264222

By giving Turkey a green light to invade northern Syria, the U.S. upended the balance of power in the Middle East with a single stroke. Russia is the biggest winner.'

74414273_10220460327080479_7059817699269

 
 
 
lib50
2.3.7  lib50  replied to  Ronin2 @2.3.5    4 weeks ago

Reading is your friend, read the article. 

 
 
 
Krishna
3  Krishna    one month ago

A retired United States Marine Corps general, Mattis served in the Persian Gulf War, the War in Afghanistan, and the Iraq War. 

Fox news reports that Former Secretary of Defense General James Mattis criticized President Trump’s decision to remove American troops from Syria, saying in his first public comments on the matter that  the Islamic State now “will resurge”   in the region.

"I think Secretary of State Pompeo, the intelligence services, the foreign countries that are working with us have it about right that ISIS is not defeated,” Mattis said. during an interview on NBC’s “Meet The Press.”

“We have got to keep the pressure on ISIS so they don't recover."

 
 
 
Krishna
3.1  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @3    one month ago

Mattis’ comments come after Trump announced that he was pulling troops from Syria, greenlighting an invasion by Turkey of the war-torn region and stirring up strong bipartisan criticism from lawmakers in Washington that he was endangering regional stability and risking the lives of Syrian Kurdish allies who brought down the Islamic State group in Syria.

"You can pull your troops out, as President Obama learned the hard way, out of Iraq, but the 'enemy gets the vote' as we say in the military,”

Mattis said. “And in this case, if we don't keep the pressure on then ISIS will resurge. It's, it's absolutely a given that they will come back.”

 
 
 
Nerm_L
4  Nerm_L    one month ago

Here we go again.  We've danced this dance too many times.  The dance has ended the same, without exception.  This is just another celebration of gun culture.  Guns kill and soldiers carry guns.  Why?  Thank a gun for making us free.  Without guns, soldiers cannot spread democracy around the world.

Look, we all know Joe Biden wanted to partition Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan.  Biden wants a Palestinian state, too.  But the only war wound Biden has to worry about are callouses on his backside while he butt dimples fine leather upholstery.  Biden depends upon guns to 'liberate' people and spread democracy.  Biden is a poster boy for gun culture.  

Don't thank a veteran; thank a gun.  The Kurds don't care about American values; the Kurds only want American guns.  And the Kurds will remain our allies as long as American soldiers kill their enemies.  So, grab a gun and make the Kurds free.  The Kurds will be grateful until the United States tries to tell them how to govern themselves.

Trump didn't abandon the Kurds or anyone else.  The military mission in Syria was to destroy ISIS as an army.  There isn't an ISIS army or a caliphate any longer.  The military mission was accomplished; the mission is over.  The United States can't partition Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, or Turkey alone.  Europe, NATO, and the United Nations must be involved.  The United States military cannot establish civilian government.  The military can only establish a military government of occupation maintained by force of arms.  Guns won't bring democracy to the Middle East.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
4.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Nerm_L @4    one month ago
Here we go again

Yes, here you go again, justifying injustice, rationalizing abandoning our allies, shirking off responsibility all because you have to find a way to spin this Presidents careless actions. I've no doubt how you would have viewed this if it had been Obama abandoning our allies who helped us fight ISIS while also creating a vacuum that the remnants of ISIS will no doubt fill. The conservative outrage would have exploded and you know it. No way any tepid defense of how "guns won't bring democracy to the Middle East" would have been coming from the right and they know it. But now that its their guy who did it they've got to manufacture a rationale that they know doesn't hold water, but what else do they have? They've tied themselves to this millstone so they're all in and will do any amount of mental contortions necessary to continue supporting this monumental disaster in the white house.

 
 
 
Sunshine
4.1.1  Sunshine  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.1    one month ago
if it had been Obama

If this had been Obama's decision, you would be wanting to give him the Nobel Peace Prize.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
4.1.2  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Sunshine @4.1.1    one month ago
If this had been Obama's decision, you would be wanting to give him the Nobel Peace Prize.

Total nonsense. I was disappointed with many of the actions taken by the Obama administration. I disagreed with their increased use of drone strikes and their decision to back off the warning of a red line (though a military response was taken to congress as it should have been and rejected by Republicans so that's not all on Obama) and I disagreed with how they handled Libya. No human is perfect, which of course includes all Presidents, but the distance from the relatively high bar that we usually have demanded from our highest elected leaders in the nation is so far off with Trump it's almost as if there's simply no bar at all anymore, at least not for his sycophants. Anything he does is immediately justified and defended regardless of the human casualties his decisions cause. With this numbskull move he has condemned tens of thousands of our allies to death and his supporters are washing his hands of it saying "So what?" "Are we supposed to save everyone?" "The Kurds are us! It's not as if it's happening here! So who cares about some Muslims caught in the middle?". It's shameful, and the fact that so many of Trump supporters seem impervious to such shame is very sad and just more evidence they have lost their American ideals, values and morality in favor of corruption, a dictator and white nationalism all because they've been promised a special place in Trumps vision of a revitalized white Christian patriarchy here at home.

 
 
 
Sunshine
4.1.3  Sunshine  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.1.2    one month ago
 No human is perfect,

Yes, the slobbering is always present.  The never ending excuses for Obama.

 
 
 
It Is ME
4.1.4  It Is ME  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.1.2    one month ago
Anything he does is immediately justified and defended regardless of the human casualties his decisions cause.

No Human is perfect ?

"I was disappointed with many of the actions taken by the Obama administration. I disagreed with their increased use of drone strikes and their decision to back off the warning of a red line (though a military response was taken to congress as it should have been and rejected by Republicans so that's not all on Obama) and I disagreed with how they handled Libya."

How many lives were lost during those ….. lack of perfections by Obma ?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
4.1.5  Nerm_L  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.1    one month ago
if it had been Obama

It was Obama.  That's why US troops are in Syria.  Obama drew a red line in the sand which was a mistake.  So, Obama put the military in Syria to cover his careless empty threats.

And don't forget that Obama pulled the military out of Iraq, abandoned our Kurdish allies in Iraq, and allowed ISIS to create an army and a caliphate.  Where was Europe, NATO, and the United Nations when Obama removed the military from Iraq?  

The only way the United States can get out of the Middle East is to get out.  Otherwise the United States is stuck in perpetual war.  And perpetual war requires a gun culture; bouquets of daisies won't do much.  The United States must commit itself to killing the enemies of feckless allies. 

 
 
 
MUVA
4.1.6  MUVA  replied to  Nerm_L @4.1.5    one month ago

Without a vote from congress it is time for congress to do their job.

 
 
 
Sunshine
4.1.7  Sunshine  replied to  Nerm_L @4.1.5    one month ago
The only way the United States can get out of the Middle East is to get out. 

I guess we can't question why we are in the middle of these continuing conflicts in the ME.  Seems most people here are happy and content with the status quo of nothing ever being accomplished for the blood of our soldiers.  I guess we also forgot or learned nothing from Vietnam. 

Every time we go one step forward in the ME, we end up going five steps back.  

 
 
 
Ronin2
4.1.8  Ronin2  replied to  Nerm_L @4.1.5    one month ago
It was Obama.  That's why US troops are in Syria.  Obama drew a red line in the sand which was a mistake.  So, Obama put the military in Syria to cover his careless empty threats.

No, Obama put the US military in Syria under the guise of the "War on Terror" to remove Assad. He didn't count on Assad brokering a deal with Russia, China, and Iran to bail him out.

And don't forget that Obama pulled the military out of Iraq,

Yes, Obama did; but that was not his fault. Blame that on the SOFA agreement by Bush Jr, and the Iraqi government- who were taking their marching orders from Iran. Obama offered to keep "as many troops in Iraq as the government wanted"; but the Iraqis wanted US troops to be pulled out, and if they stayed any crimes they committed would be tried in Iraqi courts. Obama had no choice but to pull them out.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/21/iraq-rejects-us-plea-bases

The US suffered a major diplomatic and military rebuff on Friday when Iraq finally rejected its pleas to maintain bases in the country beyond this year.

Barack Obama  announced at a White House press conference that all American troops will leave Iraq by the end of December, a decision forced by the final collapse of lengthy talks between the US and the Iraqi government on the issue.

The Iraqi decision is a boost to Iran, which has close ties with many members of the Iraqi government and which had been battling against the establishment of permanent American bases.

Obama attempted to make the most of it by presenting the withdrawal as the fulfilment of one of his election promises.

"Today I can report that, as promised, the rest of our troops in Iraq will come home by the end of the year. After nearly nine years, America's war in Iraq will be over," he told reporters.

But he had already announced this earlier this year, and the real significance today was in the failure of Obama, in spite of the cost to the US in dollars and deaths, to persuade the Iraqi prime minister Nouri al-Maliki to allow one or more American bases to be kept in the country.

Obama was formally told of Maliki's final decision on Friday morning in a video conference.

Speaking later to reporters, Obama glossed over the rejection, describing it as Iraq shaping its own future.

He told reporters that the "tide of war is receding", not only in Iraq but in Afghanistan and in Libya.

"The United States is moving forward to a position of strength. The long war in Iraq will come to an end by the end of this year. The transition in Afghanistan is moving forward and our troops are finally coming home," he said.

Obama rose to political prominence on the back of his opposition to the Iraq war.

"Over the next two months, our troops in Iraq, tens of thousands of them, will pack up their gear and board convoys for the journey home," he said.

"The last American soldier will cross the border out of Iraq with their heads held high, proud of their success, and knowing that the American people stand united in our support for our troops," he said. "That is how America's military efforts in Iraq will end."

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/obama-iraq_n_1032507

But in the case of the complete withdrawal of American troops from Iraq by the end of this year, candidate Obama prevailed over the president.

President Obama wanted to stay longer — as recently as a few weeks ago asking the Iraqi government to allow 10,000 , then 3,000 troops to remain past New Year’s Eve.

Three years later, the Obama administration also underestimated the depth of Iraqi hostility to the U.S. presence in the country. Right up until Obama’s announcement last week , some administration officials were still expressing near certainty that the Iraqi government would request several thousand trainers to remain past the December 31 deadline.

But negotiations ultimately broke down over the issue of legal immunity for any remaining troops, which was an imperative for the Pentagon and a deal-breaker for the Iraqis, who after nearly nine years of U.S. military presence wanted no more infringements on their sovereignty.

As a result, Obama had no choice but to make the announcement he did on October 21. “As a candidate for President, I pledged to bring the war in Iraq to a responsible end,” he said.

I do blame for Obama for putting US forces back into Iraq. For retraining and reequipping the destroyed Iraqi military, and using US forces to give them backbone in the field. For using the US Air Force for providing cover not just for government forces; but also Iranian militia. We had no business propping up a government loyal to Iran. The Iranians must be laughing their asses off over our stupidity.

  Where was Europe, NATO, and the United Nations when Obama removed the military from Iraq?  

Iraq was never a NATO operation. It was a "Coalition of the willing". Our coalition allies left Iraq long before we did. Once we left NATO and the UN wanted nothing to do with Iraq. Just like they didn't want anything to do with Iraq when Obama sent US forces back in to save the Iraqi government. Without the US NATO and the UN are just a collection of useless talking heads. 

The only way the United States can get out of the Middle East is to get out.  Otherwise the United States is stuck in perpetual war.  And perpetual war requires a gun culture; bouquets of daisies won't do much.  The United States must commit itself to killing the enemies of feckless allies. 

Dead on. Our "allies" are completely worthless. Unless we act and do the majority of the lifting they won't even bother to show up. But they damn well are first in line with their hands out when it comes to economic and military aide.

 
 
 
dennis smith
4.1.9  dennis smith  replied to  Sunshine @4.1.7    one month ago

As  Vietnam vet drafted in 1966, served in country in 968, that  "conflict" was nothing more than a waste of over 55,00 lives and 4 times that amount of other wounded. It was a long "conflict" that had ZERO need for us to be there. 

Lies from politicians then is the same as it has been in the ME since we first got involved there.

Go in to win and then get out or don't go in.

 
 
 
Sunshine
4.1.10  Sunshine  replied to  dennis smith @4.1.9    4 weeks ago
As  Vietnam vet drafted in 1966

Except for some, I think the Vietnam War has been forgotten already and that is a shame.  I also believe that many people feel America's involvement in the ME just started with the Iraq War. jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
warmall
5  warmall    one month ago

I just want to say that Obama was consistent. Trump doesn 't look consistent.  And thus, he brings additional chaos to this whole difficult situation.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  warmall @5    one month ago
Trump doesn 't look consistent.  And thus, he brings additional chaos to this whole difficult situation.

Exactly!

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
5.1.1  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.1    one month ago

You should call on congress to formally authorize military action in Syria. That way our legislators are forced to make a public case for it's purpose and explain how it directly threatens our national security and nation.

It will never happen though, there is no case to be made. There is no threat to our nation and no one is gifted enough to make that case and sell it to the American people.

The good news for neocons is they will likely elect another war mongering president soon enough.

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
5.1.2  Larry Hampton  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @5.1.1    one month ago

Would you stop an aggressor before or after they became an immediate threat?

 
 
 
Ronin2
5.1.3  Ronin2  replied to  Larry Hampton @5.1.2    4 weeks ago

The aggressor has been stopped as a viable military force in Syria. ISIS/ISIL has moved on to greener pastures in Lebanon, Jordan, Libya, Afghanistan, and Africa.  Pretty much anywhere Sunni Islam is a major religion, and there is a weak government.

But ISIS/ISIL as a military is not the problem. Their terrorism is; but how do you stop the internet? The ISIS/ISIL attacks in the US have been by US citizens recruited to their cause.  Even if you manage to kill every last ISIS/ISIL fighter; the terrorism will persist. How do you kill an ideology?

Europe has more to fear from ISIS/ISIL foreign terrorists; but you don't see them in Syria. France and Britain beat us to the exit. If they were so concerned about the thousands of ISIS/ISIL prisoners they would have taken back those from their countries; and requested the parent countries of the others take them back for trial and sentencing. Instead there they sit unguarded if overflowing cramped conditions- along with their families in the thousands more surrounding them. Oh well they are Syria's problem now. Wonder how they will handle it?

 
 
 
Sunshine
5.2  Sunshine  replied to  warmall @5    one month ago

The mid-east has been unstable and chaotic for hundreds of years.  Calling it a "difficult situation" is putting it mildly.  There will never be stability in the region.  Kin, Klan, religion is more important to many middle easterners than peace.  

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
5.2.1  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Sunshine @5.2    one month ago

Neocons think it's there job to spend our young soldiers to stop every misfortune that occurs in the Middle East and elsewhere. Their historical record is one of complete and absolute failure.

It's just insanity to hear the community of war fluffers begging for more war like a detoxing heroin addict. "Give us war or else !#$!@$!@#!"

 
 
 
MUVA
5.2.2  MUVA  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @5.2.1    one month ago

Remember these war fighters know what they signed up for according to some.I would like to see where some of these warhawks have their money invested maybe they will get to shoot some missiles and make some money.

 
 
 
warmall
5.2.3  warmall  replied to  Sunshine @5.2    one month ago
The mid-east has been unstable and chaotic for hundreds of years.  Calling it a "difficult situation" is putting it mildly.  There will never be stability in the region.  Kin, Klan, religion is more important to many middle easterners than peace.

I agree with you. But let me ask you. The middle ages in Europe were not like chaos? Humanity is developing unevenly?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
5.2.4  igknorantzrulz  replied to  warmall @5.2.3    one month ago

I agree with you. But let me ask you. The middle ages in Europe were not like chaos? Humanity is developing unevenly?

odd

 
 
 
warmall
5.2.5  warmall  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.2.4    one month ago

Guns, Germs and Steel: A Short History of Everybody for the Last 13,000 Years. 

Excellent book. Did you read?

 
 
 
MUVA
5.3  MUVA  replied to  warmall @5    one month ago

So Obama removed troops from Iraq and put troops in syria and bombed Libya without a vote from congress  now that is consistent.  

 
 
 
Ronin2
5.3.1  Ronin2  replied to  MUVA @5.3    one month ago

He also put troops back into Iraq, and rearmed and retrained the Iraqi military. All w/o Congressional consent.

Remember, Obama was Mr "I have a cell phone and pen"; he didn't need congress for anything.

 
 
 
warmall
5.3.2  warmall  replied to  MUVA @5.3    one month ago
So Obama removed troops from Iraq and put troops in syria and bombed Libya without a vote from congress  now that is consistent. 

I think that there is no ideal. But he seemed more consistent to me. And it seems he had a team. He consulted. But he could also be wrong like any of us. But if you look at the whole. He was more predictable. In a good way. Predictable for partners. It gave a sense of consistency.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
5.3.3  igknorantzrulz  replied to  warmall @5.3.2    one month ago

"a sense of consistency"

yea, compared to the dumpster Trumpster fire blazing like Saddles, seated for those wanting to be mistreated for the music ceasing, it is a Mongo achievement gas lighted to on bean a high  strung instrument out of Looney Tune and tone deaf sounded out for the phonic effects, some wind up hooked on.

 
 
 
warmall
5.3.4  warmall  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.3.3    one month ago

covfefe

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
5.3.5  igknorantzrulz  replied to  warmall @5.3.4    one month ago

if only Trump was hooked on phonics

 
 
 
dennis smith
5.3.6  dennis smith  replied to  warmall @5.3.2    one month ago

America's predictability has allowed countries around the world and NATO to use us as stooges for doing the dirty work for decades. They get money from the US and want us to solve their issues.

No more, time for other countries to work to make their lives better internally instead of rolling over and relying on the US.

 
 
 
Tacos!
6  Tacos!    one month ago
They trusted us

To do what, exactly? Create a country for them? Help them become independent from Turkey, Syria, and Iraq? All at once, or one at a time?

We armed them and trained them. In return, they killed ISIS forces, which is good for us but also good for pretty much everyone. Now ISIS is mostly dead and they remain armed and trained.

 
 
 
Ronin2
6.1  Ronin2  replied to  Tacos! @6    one month ago
We armed them and trained them. In return, they killed ISIS forces, which is good for us but also good for pretty much everyone.

Which is great for the Kurds. ISIS/ISIL tried to destroy the Kurds in Iraq and Syria. This was an alliance of mutual convenience, nothing more. The Kurds took the assistance that was beneficial to them, period. 

Notice how quickly they made peace with Assad once we left? That should have happened a long time ago; but Obama gave them false hope that we would get Assad removed for them.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
7  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh    4 weeks ago

This is a strange one, American neocons are upset we decided to bail on the Communist PKK and YPG in Syria.  Hold on I'm tearing up a bit.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/americas-marxist-allies-against-isis-1437747949

320

Gotta love the flag! It certainly explains why our progressive media is so sad.

 
 
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