Desperation is a stinky cologne, and Republicans seemed to have bathed in it today. No wonder Trumps court jesters are out trying to deflect and distract. Anyone with more than half a brain and any civics education watching the hearings today would no doubt find Hill to be honest, forthright and credible and her testimony is damning.
Holmes is the Julie Swetnick of the impeachment hearings.
Unfortunately, all of Pelosi's and Schiff's witnesses have been like Julie Swetnick. None have provided first hand knowledge and evidence of collusion, extortion, quid pro quo, high crimes and misdemeanors, and/or bribery.
Also unfortunate is that Pelosi and Schiff have turned the House Intel Committee into their own failed clown car Impeachment Committee. Game over.
Why would you have to engage them when you haven't taken them off since 2016? Pizza parlor sex rings! Seth Rich assassination! Deep State emails on Hillary's server deleted! RT has kept you guys way too busy to take off the tin foil hats every once in a while. Besides, you wouldn't want to risk the lizard people controlling your mind with airplane contrails do you? Never let down your guard! /s
As a scientist I tend to rely on verifiable facts rather than "feelings".
The facts are that Trump has been a compulsive liar a bully a rapist and a criminal his whole life and that didn't stop when he became president.
How anybody could possibly believe or stand behind this worthless excuse for a human being is a mystery to me. I imagine Fox had something to do with it.
The evidence is more than enough to send him to prison once he is impeached or voted out of office. There are many jurisdictions with legitimate claims.
He will be in court/prison for the rest of his life for his crimes. He had way too many skeletons in his closet to ever run for president in the first place.
I curse Trump and his soulless lackeys to never sleeping well ever again.
As usual the far right wing is whistling past the grave yard.
The far right wing?
The left wing snowflakes have their hopes and dreams set on President Trump being impeached because the Democrats can not offer up anything to beat him.
Guess what, I want it to go to the Senate and lets spend millions more on a dog and pony show. It will end up being worse for Democrats.
There is simply no point in arguing with them. If Nixon hadn't been caught breaking into the DNC but had gotten away with stealing the documents and then had them released to embarrass the Democrat party just before the election then won in a landslide, they'd still claim it was all "fair and square". In this case, Russians literally hacked an American political party and released the emails with the intent to help the other political party, then spent millions every month on fake ads that looked like they were coming from inside the US, hacked 22 State voter databases and gathered voter data which they used to target specific swing state voters with misinformation and lies about democrats (many lies which the Republicans continue to believe because the lies tickled their ears and told them what they wanted to believe). But to a Trump supporter who rationalizes that illegal actions taken against their opponents is okay because it benefits them, everything was "fair and square". It's truly a warped rationalization, but there's no other explanation to their rabid loyalty to the lies pushed by an enemy foreign government. Putin's objective of destroying western democracy has apparently aligned with many Trump supporters objective of destroying secular society in America, though mostly they fantasize about rebuilding it in their white evangelical Christian image. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, it's the only thing that explains the right wings willingness to get in bed with a murderous authoritarian. Perhaps they feel being in bed with Putin isn't so bad as long as it's only Donald that has to suck his balls...
Oh yeah, right. Them 3 million popular votes again? One more time, those don't count lady! You really need to accept and deal with that matter of electoral votes trump (no pun intended) popular votes in presidential elections in this country, so yes he did win fair and square according to existing laws in this country! Don't like it, get the laws changed for the next election. I personally would like to see popular votes counted.
I personally would like to see popular votes counted.
Agree with counted but that's it. As shown in 2016, the coasts would rule. If I remember correctly, Mrs. Clinton was behind by almost 3 million votes prior to the California tally and because she got around 6 million votes there, got the popular win. No thank you. There is a reason for the EC and it needs to stick.
Tell which electors went against the people who voted them in.
Hillary Clinton, lost five of her pledged electors
Donald Trump, lost two.
hillary not only won that race LOL she set a record for female with the most faithless electors ever in the history of our country. shattered that glass ceiling and setting a trend.
It just boggles the mind that anyone can consider an investigation that resulted in so many indictments, convictions, and guilty pleas (including indictments of several Russians) to be a hoax. You have to wonder if reality even exists for these folks. Hill had to chide several GOP members for buying into that bullshit today; you'd think our elected officials wouldn't be so quick to suck Putin's .... just because Trump tells them to.
It just boggles the mind that anyone can consider an investigation that resulted in so many indictments, convictions, and guilty pleas (including indictments of several Russians) to be a hoax.
I know the "Russians" are"Russian", and deal with "Russia", but what others dealt in "Russia" again ?
tion that resulted in so many indictments, convictions, and guilty ple
None of those indictments demonstrate coordination between Trump and the Russians over the 2016 election, which is the hoax Democrats spread have been spreading since 2016.
Still waiting for Schiff's evidence he promised years ago.....
None of those indictments demonstrate coordination between Trump and the Russians over the 2016 election, which is the hoax Democrats spread have been spreading since 2016. Still waiting for Schiff's evidence he promised years ago.....
Come on Sean. The Mueller report has a ton of evidence that Trump et al 'coordinated' with the Russians. Mueller did not believe that he could prove that a conspiracy existed. PERIOD, full stop.
There's no evidence of any of that. For starters, if Trump or any Republican had colluded with the Russians, they would have been charged with conspiracy and Mueller specifically stated he found no evidence any American coordinated with the Russian election interference operation.
There's no evidence of any of that. For starters, if Trump or any Republican had colluded with the Russians, they would have been charged with conspiracy and Mueller specifically stated he found no evidence any American coordinated with the Russian election interference operation.Read the report.
I did. You either didn't or you are in denial.
As Mueller explained up front, collusion is NOT a crime and his task was to investigate CRIMES. You're desperate, as Trump is, to conflate collusion with conspiracy. Yes Mueller exonerated Trump on conspiracy, however, he documents a crap load of collusion.
It may help if you'd review the fact that collusion and conspiracy have two different definitions, especially in the law, since one is a crime and the other isn't.
He was specifically directed to investigate collusion as well as other crimes.He was literally directed to investigate collusion.
You're desperate, as Trump is, to conflate collusion with conspiracy.
Ha! And so is Mueller too? Right?
To quote Mr. Mueller: "collusion is largely syonmous with conspiracy as that crime is set forth in the general federal conspiracy statute, 18 U.S.C. 371. See Black 3 Law Dictionary 321. (10th ed. 2014) (collusion is agreement to defraud another or to do or obtain something forbidden by law); 1 Alexander Burrill, A Law Dictionary and Glossary 31 (1871) (An agreement between two or more persons to defraud another by the forms of law, or to employ such forms as means of accomplishing some unlawful object); 1 Bouvier's Law Dictionary 352
act that collusion and conspiracy have two different definitions, especially in the law
Give it up. Everything you wrote is contradicted by the Mueller report and the memo detailing the scope of Mueller's authority.
He was specifically directed to investigate collusion as well as other crimes. He was literally directed to investigate collusion.
Oh really Sean. Have you even READ Mueller's Appointment letter? How about you quote the sentence in Mueller' appointment that tasks him to investigate 'collusion'?
This should be fun...
Ha! And so is Mueller too? Right?
No Sean.
Page 2 of the report:
A statement that the investigation did not establish particular facts does not mean there was no evidence of those facts. In evaluating whether evidence about collective action of multiple individuals constituted a crime, we applied the framework of conspiracy law, not the concept of "collusion."
Give it up. Everything you wrote is contradicted by the Mueller report and the memo detailing the scope of Mueller's authority.
Well I've already proven that collusion and conspiracy have two different definition under the law via Mueller's report.
Now it's on you to prove your claim that Mueller was 'literally directed to investigate collusion'. I'll wait...
• Committed a crime or crimes by colluding with Russian government officials with respect to the Russian government’s efforts to interfere with the 2016 election for President of the United States, in violation of United States law;
This should be fun
It was!
e applied the framework of conspiracy law, not the concept of "collusion."
And naturally, you stopped before Meuller explains the actual relationship between the two. because he then immediately says that "collusion is largely synonymous with conspiracy as that crime is set forth in the general federal conspiracy statute",and provided the legal definitions show that criminal acts of collusion are captured in the federal code as "conspiracy."
The idea that Trump, or anyone, colluded with Russia but did not conspire is a shallow, substance free semantic doge that defies reality.
Let's recap:
Mueller was specifically directed to investigate allegations of collusion.
Mueller provided the definition of the common law crime of collusion and demonstrated that the crime of collusion is called conspiracy in the federal statutes. And he, of course, did not claim Trump or anyone associated with him colluded/conspired with the Russians.
Please recognize you were wrong again and further discussion is pointless. Rather then gas lighting the board with further perversions of fact, logic and common sense, just have the integrity for once to admit your mistake . Mueller was tasked to investigate collusion with the Russian government and did his job. End of story.
You're deflecting Sean. You insist that Mueller was 'specifically directed to investigate collusion'. Mueller's direction is documented in his appointment letter. Stop deflecting and quote the sentence in that document that proves your claim.
The idea that Trump, or anyone, colluded with Russia but did not conspire is a shallow, substance free semantic doge that defies reality.
Your unwillingness to recognize the difference between 'criminal conspiracy', a crime, and collusion, NOT a crime, isn't an issue of semantics, it seems to be an issue of bias. Mueller documents multiple acts of collusion.
Let's recap:
Stop patting yourself on the back and PROVE something.
It just boggles the mind that anyone can consider an investigation that resulted in so many indictments, convictions, and guilty pleas (including indictments of several Russians) to be a hoax.
Probably because all those indictments, convictions and guilty pleas had nothing to do with what they were supposed to be investigating.
Probably because all those indictments, convictions and guilty pleas had nothing to do with what they were supposed to be investigating.
Many of them were from lying to investigators about their interactions with Russian operatives, the rest exposed the people around Trump to be criminals and conmen. I have to imagine it takes some serious mental gymnastics to just shrug your shoulders at all the indictments, guilty pleas and convictions and keep supporting your chosen pussy grabber. I guess when Trump grabs you, he just refuses to let go.
Please do tell what part of the 34 people indicted, convicted or pleading guilty to lying about ties to Russian operatives was "dishonest"?
It seems your unsubstantiated claim is far more dishonest than my comment which stated facts. Or are the facts all scrubbed from the news in alternate right wing bizzaro world?
"Many of them were from lying to investigators about their interactions with Russian operatives, the rest exposed the people around Trump to be criminals and conmen. I have to imagine it takes some serious mental gymnastics to just shrug your shoulders at all the indictments, guilty pleas and convictions and keep supporting your chosen pussy grabber."
No defense necessary. They were all "process" crimes. You do know what that means right? None had anything to do with Mr. Trump.
"Process crimes are the offenses that "interfere with the procedures and administration of justice". They are prosecuted because they are considered to harm the public interest in the functioning and integrity of the judicial system.
The only thing that is failing is American Democracy. Trump very clearly, and by all evidence used the state to serve his self interest. You know, kinda the thing the founders really didn't like. And yet half the government is arguing that the President can do whatever he likes. That is it folks, democracy over, Emperor is in.
Your seed about the hoaxter Ukrainians accusing the Democrats of theft was funnier.
Desperation is a stinky cologne, and Republicans seemed to have bathed in it today. No wonder Trumps court jesters are out trying to deflect and distract. Anyone with more than half a brain and any civics education watching the hearings today would no doubt find Hill to be honest, forthright and credible and her testimony is damning.
As usual the far right wing is whistling past the grave yard.
The testimony has been seriously damaging for Trump and no GOP spin can change that.
Was it all those "Feelings" testimony's that reeled you in ?
Maybe it's been all of the assumptions, presumptions, and hearsay testimonies?
I hear that this "As seen on TV" Fallacy, is now a tear jerker "Hallmark" episode.....and just for "Christmas" !
In his secret deposition, Holmes claimed that he heard all of the restaurant phone call. Today, he stated that he heard only PART of it.
Shifty Schiff's ship sinks swiftly! (Say that 3 times fast! LOL!)
Holmes is the Julie Swetnick of the impeachment hearings.
Unfortunately, all of Pelosi's and Schiff's witnesses have been like Julie Swetnick. None have provided first hand knowledge and evidence of collusion, extortion, quid pro quo, high crimes and misdemeanors, and/or bribery.
Also unfortunate is that Pelosi and Schiff have turned the House Intel Committee into their own failed clown car Impeachment Committee. Game over.
Why would you have to engage them when you haven't taken them off since 2016? Pizza parlor sex rings! Seth Rich assassination! Deep State emails on Hillary's server deleted! RT has kept you guys way too busy to take off the tin foil hats every once in a while. Besides, you wouldn't want to risk the lizard people controlling your mind with airplane contrails do you? Never let down your guard! /s
As a scientist I tend to rely on verifiable facts rather than "feelings".
The facts are that Trump has been a compulsive liar a bully a rapist and a criminal his whole life and that didn't stop when he became president.
How anybody could possibly believe or stand behind this worthless excuse for a human being is a mystery to me. I imagine Fox had something to do with it.
The evidence is more than enough to send him to prison once he is impeached or voted out of office. There are many jurisdictions with legitimate claims.
He will be in court/prison for the rest of his life for his crimes. He had way too many skeletons in his closet to ever run for president in the first place.
I curse Trump and his soulless lackeys to never sleeping well ever again.
Exactly. Trump believing all of that about Ukraine trying to 'take him down' got him where he is now.
The far right wing?
The left wing snowflakes have their hopes and dreams set on President Trump being impeached because the Democrats can not offer up anything to beat him.
Guess what, I want it to go to the Senate and lets spend millions more on a dog and pony show. It will end up being worse for Democrats.
Actually only have a masters degree in chemistry/science related fields.
This administration thinks they're "Little Miss Can't Be Wrong"
One poster has even said that the FBI helped Bill and Hillary with Whitewater and with these e-mails and all these deep state operatives everywhere.
'What would those fields be? '
Duh, chemistry and science?
Which part of chemistry/science related fields didn't you get?
In your mind you do but not in reality.
It's just like a "B Movie" !
Yeah, and still pissed that he won fair and square huh?
Except he didn't win FAIR AND SQUARE
There is simply no point in arguing with them. If Nixon hadn't been caught breaking into the DNC but had gotten away with stealing the documents and then had them released to embarrass the Democrat party just before the election then won in a landslide, they'd still claim it was all "fair and square". In this case, Russians literally hacked an American political party and released the emails with the intent to help the other political party, then spent millions every month on fake ads that looked like they were coming from inside the US, hacked 22 State voter databases and gathered voter data which they used to target specific swing state voters with misinformation and lies about democrats (many lies which the Republicans continue to believe because the lies tickled their ears and told them what they wanted to believe). But to a Trump supporter who rationalizes that illegal actions taken against their opponents is okay because it benefits them, everything was "fair and square". It's truly a warped rationalization, but there's no other explanation to their rabid loyalty to the lies pushed by an enemy foreign government. Putin's objective of destroying western democracy has apparently aligned with many Trump supporters objective of destroying secular society in America, though mostly they fantasize about rebuilding it in their white evangelical Christian image. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, it's the only thing that explains the right wings willingness to get in bed with a murderous authoritarian. Perhaps they feel being in bed with Putin isn't so bad as long as it's only Donald that has to suck his balls...
Then show us proof that the Electoral College was somehow compromised. Tell which electors went against the people who voted them in.
Oh yeah, right. Them 3 million popular votes again? One more time, those don't count lady! You really need to accept and deal with that matter of electoral votes trump (no pun intended) popular votes in presidential elections in this country, so yes he did win fair and square according to existing laws in this country! Don't like it, get the laws changed for the next election. I personally would like to see popular votes counted.
When people don't understand how Presidents are actually elected, of course things like the popular vote will seem important to them.
I believe our arguments are falling on deaf ears, and until progress is made as to how Presidents are really elected here is made, pointless.
I commend you for your attempt to educate!
Agree with counted but that's it. As shown in 2016, the coasts would rule. If I remember correctly, Mrs. Clinton was behind by almost 3 million votes prior to the California tally and because she got around 6 million votes there, got the popular win. No thank you. There is a reason for the EC and it needs to stick.
Yep, that old saying about leading a horse to water sure comes mind!
Hillary Clinton, lost five of her pledged electors
Donald Trump, lost two.
hillary not only won that race LOL she set a record for female with the most faithless electors ever in the history of our country. shattered that glass ceiling and setting a trend.
I wouldn't expect you to know that there are many divisions in the natural sciences.
Are you still a denier of anthropogenic global warming?
It just boggles the mind that anyone can consider an investigation that resulted in so many indictments, convictions, and guilty pleas (including indictments of several Russians) to be a hoax. You have to wonder if reality even exists for these folks. Hill had to chide several GOP members for buying into that bullshit today; you'd think our elected officials wouldn't be so quick to suck Putin's .... just because Trump tells them to.
I know the "Russians" are "Russian", and deal with "Russia", but what others dealt in "Russia" again ?
None of those indictments demonstrate coordination between Trump and the Russians over the 2016 election, which is the hoax Democrats spread have been spreading since 2016.
Still waiting for Schiff's evidence he promised years ago.....
Come on Sean. The Mueller report has a ton of evidence that Trump et al 'coordinated' with the Russians. Mueller did not believe that he could prove that a conspiracy existed. PERIOD, full stop.
READ the report.
Collusion; YES
Coordination; YES
Conspiracy; NO
There's no evidence of any of that. For starters, if Trump or any Republican had colluded with the Russians, they would have been charged with conspiracy and Mueller specifically stated he found no evidence any American coordinated with the Russian election interference operation.
Read the report.
I did. You either didn't or you are in denial.
As Mueller explained up front, collusion is NOT a crime and his task was to investigate CRIMES. You're desperate, as Trump is, to conflate collusion with conspiracy. Yes Mueller exonerated Trump on conspiracy, however, he documents a crap load of collusion.
It may help if you'd review the fact that collusion and conspiracy have two different definitions, especially in the law, since one is a crime and the other isn't.
Then you didn't understand it.
. his task was to investigate CRIMES
He was specifically directed to investigate collusion as well as other crimes. He was literally directed to investigate collusion.
You're desperate, as Trump is, to conflate collusion with conspiracy.
Ha! And so is Mueller too? Right?
To quote Mr. Mueller: "collusion is largely syonmous with conspiracy as that crime is set forth in the general federal conspiracy statute, 18 U.S.C. 371. See Black 3 Law Dictionary 321. (10th ed. 2014) (collusion is agreement to defraud another or to do or obtain something forbidden by law); 1 Alexander Burrill, A Law Dictionary and Glossary 31 (1871) (An agreement between two or more persons to defraud another by the forms of law, or to employ such forms as means of accomplishing some unlawful object); 1 Bouvier's Law Dictionary 352
act that collusion and conspiracy have two different definitions, especially in the law
Give it up. Everything you wrote is contradicted by the Mueller report and the memo detailing the scope of Mueller's authority.
Oh really Sean. Have you even READ Mueller's Appointment letter? How about you quote the sentence in Mueller' appointment that tasks him to investigate 'collusion'?
This should be fun...
No Sean.
Page 2 of the report:
A statement that the investigation did not establish particular facts does not mean there
was no evidence of those facts.
In evaluating whether evidence about collective action of multiple individuals constituted
a crime, we applied the framework of conspiracy law, not the concept of "collusion."
Well I've already proven that collusion and conspiracy have two different definition under the law via Mueller's report.
Now it's on you to prove your claim that Mueller was 'literally directed to investigate collusion'. I'll wait...
Here you go:
"Allegations that Paul Manafort:
• Committed a crime or crimes by colluding with Russian government officials with respect to the Russian government’s efforts to interfere with the 2016 election for President of the United States, in violation of United States law;
This should be fun
It was!
e applied the framework of conspiracy law, not the concept of "collusion."
And naturally, you stopped before Meuller explains the actual relationship between the two. because he then immediately says that "collusion is largely synonymous with conspiracy as that crime is set forth in the general federal conspiracy statute",and provided the legal definitions show that criminal acts of collusion are captured in the federal code as "conspiracy."
The idea that Trump, or anyone, colluded with Russia but did not conspire is a shallow, substance free semantic doge that defies reality.
Let's recap:
Mueller was specifically directed to investigate allegations of collusion.
Mueller provided the definition of the common law crime of collusion and demonstrated that the crime of collusion is called conspiracy in the federal statutes. And he, of course, did not claim Trump or anyone associated with him colluded/conspired with the Russians.
Please recognize you were wrong again and further discussion is pointless. Rather then gas lighting the board with further perversions of fact, logic and common sense, just have the integrity for once to admit your mistake . Mueller was tasked to investigate collusion with the Russian government and did his job. End of story.
You're deflecting Sean. You insist that Mueller was 'specifically directed to investigate collusion'. Mueller's direction is documented in his appointment letter. Stop deflecting and quote the sentence in that document that proves your claim.
Your unwillingness to recognize the difference between 'criminal conspiracy', a crime, and collusion, NOT a crime, isn't an issue of semantics, it seems to be an issue of bias. Mueller documents multiple acts of collusion.
Stop patting yourself on the back and PROVE something.
I thought that you and your fellow travelers were against attacking the source without addressing the substance. Guess not...
I am rather jealous that you are travelling with others, Fish!
LMFAO!
Probably because all those indictments, convictions and guilty pleas had nothing to do with what they were supposed to be investigating.
Many of them were from lying to investigators about their interactions with Russian operatives, the rest exposed the people around Trump to be criminals and conmen. I have to imagine it takes some serious mental gymnastics to just shrug your shoulders at all the indictments, guilty pleas and convictions and keep supporting your chosen pussy grabber. I guess when Trump grabs you, he just refuses to let go.
Please do tell what part of the 34 people indicted, convicted or pleading guilty to lying about ties to Russian operatives was "dishonest"?
It seems your unsubstantiated claim is far more dishonest than my comment which stated facts. Or are the facts all scrubbed from the news in alternate right wing bizzaro world?
Not really. You see your post above............
"Many of them were from lying to investigators about their interactions with Russian operatives, the rest exposed the people around Trump to be criminals and conmen. I have to imagine it takes some serious mental gymnastics to just shrug your shoulders at all the indictments, guilty pleas and convictions and keep supporting your chosen pussy grabber."
No defense necessary. They were all "process" crimes. You do know what that means right? None had anything to do with Mr. Trump.
"Process crimes are the offenses that "interfere with the procedures and administration of justice". They are prosecuted because they are considered to harm the public interest in the functioning and integrity of the judicial system.
I'll give you 1/2 credit for trying. Many of the convictions were for completely UNRELATED items like taxes and process "crimes".
Lying to investigators is something a politician does on a daily basis.
'you'd think our elected officials wouldn't be so quick to suck Putin's .... just because Trump tells them to.'
Including Ms. Lindsey who is now opening an investigation into Joe and Hunter Biden.
What the fuck?
Do you have difficulty telling the difference between a male and female, or is this a version of gay-bashing?
said it before and saying it again.
the next year is going to turn the lefts world upside down.
all of their bs will be exposed. ALL OF IT.
enjoy :)
[deleted]
Like all your other pronouncements?
exactly, everything I said would happen has happened or is in progress. can you say the same? still think trump will be removed from office?
Unfortunately most of the left hasn't moved past Hillaryious Hillary's loss.
Maybe by 2024?
a few maybe... most of the fringe left are broken and bitter for life.
What the fuck for? No reason to investigate any of the Bidens
None of your whackjob nonsense has come to pass
really? LOL
hows that workin out so far?
mueller tried = failed as predicted
impeachment tried = will fail as predicted.
trumps tax records = cant have them as predicted
investigations into the russia hoax and fisa abuse? released 9th and testifies 11th
for the future: trump will be re-elected.
there was no reason to investigate trump either.
what's good for trump is good for the bidens... LOL
the only difference? they don't need to fabricate evidence to go after the bidens.
if trump had done that he would be crucified... but you want to give the bidens a pass?
Trump should just use our government to investigate political opponents like Obama did.
ssssshhhhhh !
That's ONLY allowed by a certain ideology.
Do you want to get "Yelled' at in a restaurant for gosh sakes ?
OMG, these radicals are a tuff bunch.
Those who lick the boots of Obama look the other way.
Best thing they've been able to accomplish.
Put up or shut up.
The only thing that is failing is American Democracy. Trump very clearly, and by all evidence used the state to serve his self interest. You know, kinda the thing the founders really didn't like. And yet half the government is arguing that the President can do whatever he likes. That is it folks, democracy over, Emperor is in.