Socialist Jeremy Corbyn to step down as leader of Labour Party after projected defeat in U.K. election

  
Via:  perrie-halpern  •  4 months ago  •  76 comments

By:   Patrick Smith

Socialist Jeremy Corbyn to step down as leader of Labour Party after projected defeat in U.K. election
"Labour has to face some hard truths — this was not just about Corbyn but the broader worldview and an economic plan that so many people did not believe."

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


LONDON — Jeremy Corbyn, the socialist leader of the opposition Labour Party, announced Friday he will step down after   projected election results   showed the party not only failed to oust the ruling Conservatives but also lost a swath of formerly dependable seats.

Corbyn admitted it had been a "very disappointing" night as support crumbled in his party's former heartlands, with exit polls predicting Labour would win just 201 seats in the 650-seat British Parliament.


Prime Minister Boris Johnson's ruling   Conservative Party were projected to win 357 seats in Thursday's election , which was dominated by the furious and polarizing debate over Brexit and not   social issues like the public health system .


Facing his second General Election defeat, Corbyn announced he would call it a day as leader after being re-elected to his Islington North seat in London.

He said he would not lead the party into another election, but would stay on during a “process of reflection.”

Many Labour figures are calling on Corbyn to resign immediately as the party grapples with what looks set to be an overwhelming defeat. But Corbyn seemed determined to resist the pressure, accusing the media of attacking Labour and contributing to its poor result along with Brexit.

191212-corbyn_britain-election-kf-12a_bd Britain's opposition Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn speaks after the General Election results of the Islington North constituency were announced at a counting center in Islington during Britain's general election, London, Britain December 13, 2019. HANNAH MCKAY / Reuters

A lifelong socialist, Corbyn, 70, will be remembered for transforming the party from a progressive but center-left political force that won three elections under Tony Blair, to a radical left-wing party that called for major reforms in business and the economy.

While he is popular among the party faithful — membership swelled under him — he is unpopular with many of his colleagues in Parliament, and several high-profile anti-Brexit Labour figures either quit, joined the rival Liberal Democrats or began their own mini-party.

Corbyn had been a largely unknown lawmaker since 1983, representing the inner-London suburb of Islington North and championing human rights. He was fiercely opposed to the 2003 invasion of Iraq and was chairman of the Stop the War Coalition, an amalgam of left-wing groups that organized several high-profile marches.

Along with John McDonnell, the would-be finance minister, Corbyn was one of the few hard-left members of Parliament to have survived the party’s modernization into “New Labour” under Blair, which abandoned a longstanding pledge to ensure industry was owned by the state for the benefit of workers, where possible.

Labour’s 2019 manifesto, a list of ideas and policies that British parties publish before an election, provided the clearest version of Corbyn's political vision.

Utility companies, such as water, energy and transportation, were to all be brought into public ownership. Companies were to give away 10 percent of its shares to workers, who would receive an annual dividend and get a say on boardroom decisions. High-speed broadband was to be made available to all homes and businesses for free. University tuition fees were to be abolished.

Alastair Campbell, a former Blair adviser and a rival of the party's leader, said the crushing defeat showed that voters had rejected Corbyn and the party's economic vision.

"Labour has to face some hard truths — this was not just about Corbyn but the broader worldview and an economic plan that so many people did not believe," he tweeted.

After a disappointing election result in 2015 under the center-left leader Ed Miliband, Corbyn stood for the leadership against some well-known New Labour figures and unexpectedly won. The party rules had just been changed to allow ordinary party members — not just lawmakers — to vote on who should become leader, which helped Corbyn to a landslide 59 percent victory.

Driven by Momentum, a campaign group set up purely to support Corbyn which amassed 40,000 members, Corbyn soon grew a huge following online and at a series of rallies across the country.

“Oh, Jeremy Corbyn,” sung to the bass line of the White Stripes’ "Seven Nation Army," became a familiar soundtrack at events, including at the music festival Glastonbury, where Corbyn was a guest speaker on the main stage in 2017, in front of tens of thousands of people.

His star rose further still after a spirited personal performance in the 2017 election helped Labour increase its overall vote share by 9.5 percentage points compared to the previous election, winning an extra 30 seats in the process, although not enough to claim power.

Corbyn’s tenure has been blighted, however, by accusations of anti-Semitism among some of his most fervent supporters, often tied to florid conspiracy theories concerning the state of Israel or Jewish bankers.

A series of reports, including from the Jewish Labour Movement, accused   the party of not dealing with anti-Semitism complaints fast enough , a charge Corbyn flatly denied.





The U.K.’s chief rabbi, Ephraim Mirvis, made the unprecedented step before the election of writing in a newspaper article that “the very soul of our nation is at stake.” Some 87 percent of British Jews considered Corbyn personally anti-Semitic, according to a poll for the Jewish Chronicle in March.

Other controversies include his links and alleged support for the IRA in the 1980s.

In a BBC radio interview he was asked five times by the Northern Irish radio presenter Stephen Nolan to condemn the violence carried about by the IRA — he refused to do so and repeatedly said he condemned “all bombing,” including the actions of the British army during "the Troubles."

Corbyn faced strong criticism for an equivocal stance on Brexit — before the election   he declared himself neutral in any second referendum   — while the Conservatives scooped up pro-Brexit voters and the Liberal Democrats captured the anti-Brexit vote.

However, the long list of promises did not translate to electoral support, particularly in traditional working-class Labour heartlands where there is a natural suspicion of radicalism.

It's not clear whether Labour will continue in Corbyn’s mold and try to win support yet again at the ballot box for such a transformative agenda at the next election, scheduled for 2024, or whether the defeat means that the rump of centrist lawmakers who openly resented his leadership could try to wrest back control of the party.





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Perrie Halpern R.A.
1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.    4 months ago

Well, I know my family will much happier tonight... up next, the Brexit vote. One may have nothing to do with the other in the outcome.

 
 
 
Ender
1.1  Ender  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    4 months ago

I know a lot won't be. It seemed to me the younger generation was more for the Labour party and like here in the US, the older conservative faction wins out.

 
 
 
Donald J. Trump Fan #1
1.1.1  Donald J. Trump Fan #1  replied to  Ender @1.1    4 months ago

The election reminds me of ours in 2016 in regards to formerly blue areas turning red here and a lot of liberal strongholds going Conservative and Boris.  I hope that Trump and Johnson have the same kind of arrangement as Reagan and Thatcher.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.2  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Ender @1.1    4 months ago

Hi Ender,

After just coming back from there, I can tell you that their parties are really nothing like ours. The Tories are more like our Dems and we don't have any real party like their Labour party. Also, while some of the youth vote in metro centers like London would vote Labour, the entire north country would vote Tory, and a the same of anything south of London. 

This was a landslide win for the Tories, so I think it had to do more with Jeremy Corbyn, and hence why he will be stepping down. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.3  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Donald J. Trump Fan #1 @1.1.1    4 months ago

HA,

You can not compare our politics. Boris looks like a liberal compared to Trump. Brexit is the issue and everything that has happened has been a knee jerk reaction to Brexit. Now Brexit goes back to a vote. This should be interesting since so many who claimed they didn't know what they were voting for (meaning the ramifications of the break) do now. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
1.1.4  XDm9mm  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.3    4 months ago
Now Brexit goes back to a vote.

Nope.  There will not be another Brexit referendum.  Johnson is going full steam ahead on Brexit and has indicated it will happen by the end of January.  The people have ALREADY spoken.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.5  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  XDm9mm @1.1.4    4 months ago

He will try, but he might not have the votes. If he doesn't then it will go back to vote. You forget that they are not a two-party system and the other parties are not on board. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
1.1.6  Jack_TX  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.3    4 months ago
Now Brexit goes back to a vote.

I doubt it.

Yesterday was definitely not a "we've changed our mind about Brexit" sort of day.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
1.1.7  XDm9mm  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.5    4 months ago
He will try, but he might not have the votes

Don't hold your breath Perrie.  It appears that he very likely WILL have the votes.

Boris Johnson is on course for an emphatic victory in the U.K. election held Thursday, after the BBC’s exit poll showed the Prime Minister’s Conservative Party would win 368 seats in Parliament, with a large majority of approximately 86 , and a mandate to fulfil its campaign pledge of “Getting Brexit Done.”

Read more here:  https://www.msn.com/en-my/news/world/boris-johnsons-conservative-party-is-on-course-for-landmark-victory-in-uk-election-exit-poll-says/ar-AAK4E0Q

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.8  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  XDm9mm @1.1.7    4 months ago
Don't hold your breath Perrie.  It appears that he very likely WILL have the votes.

I have no dog in this fight, so I don't care if Brexit goes through or not. It's just that we have been here before, and it has not gone through. There is a hard deadline that must be met, and that is the issue. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46393399

 
 
 
XDm9mm
1.1.9  XDm9mm  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.8    4 months ago
I have no dog in this fight, so I don't care if Brexit goes through or not.

Actually, neither do I.  I'm an American citizen and not a British citizen.

However, considering the people voted overwhelmingly for Johnson and his party all of whom are adamant in their opposition to the EU and the demand they cut the strings that bind them, the writing is pretty much written on the wall for all to see.  Johnson and his party will have a commanding majority in Parliament and the will of the people to exit will now be completed. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.10  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  XDm9mm @1.1.9    4 months ago

I think that it was more complicated than that. To not vote for Johnson would be having Corbyn, and he has to be the scariest person to come to the British political scene, since maybe Chamberland. There really was no choice but to vote for Johnson. Brexit took a back seat in this election and I think that is what Johnson was hoping for, and that is why he called for an election and it worked. 

Some choices are not a choice at all. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
1.1.11  XDm9mm  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.10    4 months ago
There really was no choice but to vote for Johnson.

While that might be true, don't forget that the people also voted for a majority, by a vast margin, of MP's also against Brexit.   They could have left the Labour party in but they were tossed to the curb.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.12  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  XDm9mm @1.1.11    4 months ago

You act as if this was an orchestrated thing, but that was hardly it. When I was there in late Oct/ early Nov, they were not even sure they could get out the vote. And in fact, there were many both remainers and leavers who hadn't made up their minds yet, because of Brexit. 

After speaking to my uncle, who is a leaver and hated Corbyn, he feels that the fact that Corbyn had no real opinion about Brexit actually hurt him. It didn't get out the remainers vote.

So as you see, this was quite the unforeseen outcome.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
1.1.13  Jack_TX  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.8    4 months ago
I have no dog in this fight, so I don't care if Brexit goes through or not.

Which should be the official US position.

 
 
 
Donald J. Trump Fan #1
1.2  Donald J. Trump Fan #1  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    4 months ago

It will be good to see that anti Semite bigot gone.  On the other hand he was our guarantee that Labor would never win parliament as long as he was there as labor leader. In that one regard alone, I will miss him.  I can’t wait for Brexit to be done and a new special UK-USA free and fair trade deal. Labor and Corbyn were fairly virulently anti America so all in all, good riddance.  

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
1.2.1  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Donald J. Trump Fan #1 @1.2    4 months ago
A lifelong socialist, Corbyn, 70, will be remembered for transforming the party from a progressive but center-left political force that won three elections under Tony Blair, to a radical left-wing party that called for major reforms in business and the economy.

the progressives/socialists went too far on both sides of the pond.

just far enough for everyone else to wake the fuk up :)

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.2.2  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Donald J. Trump Fan #1 @1.2    4 months ago

Well, I am very glad he lost as he was a very toxic man and the Tories are a bit more measured at this point. But there is no guarantee about Brexit, and depending on the vote, the entire UK could fall apart. I have very mixed feelings about it. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.2.3  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @1.2.1    4 months ago

They were off the charts left and Corbyn was a very toxic man. I'm glad to see him lose. 

 
 
 
WallyW
1.3  WallyW  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    4 months ago

Utility companies, such as water, energy and transportation, were to all be brought into public ownership. Companies were to give away 10 percent of its shares to workers, who would receive an annual dividend and get a say on boardroom decisions. High-speed broadband was to be made available to all homes and businesses for free. University tuition fees were to be abolished.

This kind of misguided thinking sounds surprisingly similar to what is happening here in the US.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.3.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  WallyW @1.3    4 months ago

Wally,

No one in the US is proposing that private industry has to sell to the government. England did have this before, and they know that it didn't work out well. 

These elections are not mirror image elections. 

 
 
 
loki12
1.3.2  loki12  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.3.1    4 months ago

Here you go,

Bernie Sanders has endorsed the idea of the public ownership of utilities, arguing that we can’t adequately solve this crisis without removing the profit motive from the distribution of essential needs like energy. As president, would you be willing to call out capitalism in this way and advocate for the public ownership of our utilities?

Bernie is for the nationalization of the energy sector, Warren is not, so you are wrong that nobody is proposing it.

https://www.democracynow.org/2019/9/5/climate_crisis_should_us_nationalize_fossil 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
1.3.3  Jack_TX  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.3.1    4 months ago
No one in the US is proposing that private industry has to sell to the government.

Sanders is suggesting several very similar programs.

And Medicare for All is a nationalization of the health insurance industry, even if there isn't any infrastructure to seize.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.3.4  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Jack_TX @1.3.3    4 months ago
Sanders is suggesting several very similar programs.

Could you please find me that? Also, there is not a chance he is making it to the candidacy. 

And Medicare for All is a nationalization of the health insurance industry, even if there isn't any infrastructure to seize.

Richard Nixon did, too. I would hardly call him a socialist. 

Now please don't twist this into me wanting this. I think that everyone should be able to get coverage, and those who want to keep their own should be able to. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.3.5  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  loki12 @1.3.2    4 months ago
Bernie is for the nationalization of the energy sector, Warren is not, so you are wrong that nobody is proposing it.

OK 1 guy in a field of 10+. You got me! jrSmiley_7_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
Jack_TX
1.3.6  Jack_TX  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.3.4    4 months ago
Could you please find me that? Also, there is not a chance he is making it to the candidacy. 

It's on his website.

Richard Nixon did, too. I would hardly call him a socialist. 

Whether we would call him that or not, it's nationalization of what is now about a $2 trillion industry.

Now please don't twist this into me wanting this.

I'm not that guy.

I think that everyone should be able to get coverage, and those who want to keep their own should be able to. 

I don't have a problem with that.  It wouldn't be very hard to do if we could stop the extremists screaming over everybody.

 
 
 
Suz
1.4  Suz  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    4 months ago

I wish I had seen the reaction of a particular former member of Newsvine as they choked on their words whilst reading the dreaded result of the election in England. 

I also wonder about the reactions of France and Germany. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2  Buzz of the Orient    4 months ago

Good riddance to bad rubbish. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2    4 months ago

Have to agree with you there. 

 
 
 
jungkonservativ111
3  jungkonservativ111    4 months ago

Europeans are seeing our success with Trump and more and more of them are going to want to make their own countries great again.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  jungkonservativ111 @3    4 months ago

Wrong. Europe doesn't care about what happens in the US. The English don't care what we are doing. They are worried about the state of the UK, as in will it survive. There is a very good chance that Brexit could go to vote and lose since now people actually understand this time what they are voting for, and there is a good chance that Scotland and Wales will leave the UK, and that would be a disaster. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
3.1.1  Jack_TX  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.1    4 months ago
Europe doesn't care about what happens in the US. The English don't care what we are doing.

You are 100% correct.

And we're going to keep this verbiage on hand for the next time somebody suggests that how Europeans "feel" about US is some sort of measure of national security.

 
 
 
jungkonservativ111
3.1.2  jungkonservativ111  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.1    4 months ago

If England leaves the union the EU will be in tatters. Scotland and Wales will come crawling back after the EU folds without it's most powerful member.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.1.3  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Jack_TX @3.1.1    4 months ago
And we're going to keep this verbiage on hand for the next time somebody suggests that how Europeans "feel" about US is some sort of measure of national security.

Those are two different issues and in fact, we do need them, if we want to keep our nuclear arsenal in Europe, unless you are for pulling them, which I am not. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.1.4  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  jungkonservativ111 @3.1.2    4 months ago
If England leaves the union the EU will be in tatters. Scotland and Wales will come crawling back after the EU folds without it's most powerful member.

England is NOT the most powerful member of the EU. Germany is then followed by France. Together they have over 6.7 trillion without counting Italy who adds another 2.0 trillion, while the UK has 2.2 trillion. If Scotland and Wales left, they would take.62 trillion leaving the UK with 1.4 trillion. This would be devastating to England, especially Scotland where they get their oil from and with the bulk of cash being then clearly in the EU, that is where they will probably go. Already banking has taken a big hit. England is going to have to work very hard to keep Scotland in order to make this work.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
3.1.5  Jack_TX  replied to  jungkonservativ111 @3.1.2    4 months ago
If England leaves the union the EU will be in tatters. Scotland and Wales will come crawling back after the EU folds without it's most powerful member.

The Germans would be laughing at the idea England is the "most powerful member" of the EU....if Germans had a sense of humor.....

 
 
 
Jack_TX
3.1.6  Jack_TX  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.1.3    4 months ago
Those are two different issues and in fact, we do need them, if we want to keep our nuclear arsenal in Europe, unless you are for pulling them, which I am not. 

Of course we need them, and of course they need us.

I was referring to the hyper-emotional ranters that claim Trump saying mean things on Twitter is somehow a threat to our national security because the French/Germans/Brits/Danes/Belgians will get their feelings hurt.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.1.7  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Jack_TX @3.1.6    4 months ago
Of course we need them, and of course they need us.

Agreed.

I was referring to the hyper-emotional ranters that claim Trump saying mean things on Twitter is somehow a threat to our national security because the French/Germans/Brits/Danes/Belgians will get their feelings hurt.

I don't think Trump's twitter rants has any effect on detente, but it does make him look very unpresidential. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1.8  JohnRussell  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.1.7    4 months ago
it does make him look very unpresidential. 

No kidding. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.1.9  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Jack_TX @3.1.5    4 months ago

LMAO! Good one, Jack.

 
 
 
Suz
3.1.10  Suz  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.1    4 months ago

I was told by Brits they do care what happens in the U.S. and that Americans would do well to remember that.    No joke.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.1.11  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Suz @3.1.10    4 months ago

They do and they don't. They care if it affects them. I was just there and really all they were was consumed with their election, which is understandable.

You have to understand that while we know their history, they are not taught ours. This gives them a bit of a skewed idea about us and how we do things.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
4  The Magic Eight Ball    4 months ago
 Corbyn's political vision. Utility companies, such as water, energy and transportation, were to all be brought into public ownership. 

watching progressives/socialists lose on both sides of the pond at the same time? 

Priceless :)

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @4    4 months ago
watching progressives/socialists lose on both sides of the pond at the same time? 

You have no idea of what goes on, on the other side of the Pond, and I doubt even American socialist care. 

Cheers! :)

 
 
 
MUVA
4.1.1  MUVA  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1    4 months ago

How much time have you spent in England?

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
4.1.2  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1    4 months ago
You have no idea of what goes on, on the other side of the Pond

actin like ya know me huh?  try again.

too funny...

progressives/socialists are regressive and their BS is being rejected on both sides of the pond.

that is a fact. 

and I do appreciate the attempted personal attack. 

perhaps you should moderate yourself... 

cheers :)

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
4.1.3  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1    4 months ago
and I doubt even American socialist care. 

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.4  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  MUVA @4.1.1    4 months ago
How much time have you spent in England?

As a child, I grew between there and the US. My dad was in the Navy and when my dad would get shipped out, Mum would go home. This could be as long as 6 months at a time, so I was educated between the two countries. 

In my teens I would spend summers there, to spend time with my grandparents. 

And through my adult life, I would go back for one month spans to spend time with my grandma. 

It doesn't take me long to slip into an English accent one I am there and drop the NY one. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.5  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @4.1.2    4 months ago

Please explain how saying you have no idea what goes on there is a personal attack in need of moderation? I am amused.

progressives/socialists are regressive and their BS is being rejected on both sides of the pond.

That still doesn't explain how you would know what goes on in England. That explains how inflexible you feel those words progressives/socialists are. It doesn't explain why. 

Cheers :)

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
4.1.6  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.5    4 months ago
Please explain how saying you have no idea what goes on there is a personal attack in need of moderation?

telling a person "You have no idea of what goes on, on the other side of the Pond" comes with implications about their intelligence compared to yours.

but don't worry, it only made me laugh and I was only being sarcastic.  so I didn't flag your comment.  LOL

truth is you don't have a single clue what I know. and I would just be making shit up if I even tried to tell you what you know.

but, I will tell ya what I do know.

a socialist is a socialist no matter what side of the pond they are on. and free people "always" get fed up with their BS in the end.   it happens every single time.  the only real question is how long free people put up with it before they put an end to the progressive/socialist/communist bs. 

brexit has been a long time coming but any student of history that loves anthropology saw it coming a mile away. 

Cheers :)   

 
 
 
Donald J. Trump Fan #1
4.1.7  Donald J. Trump Fan #1  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @4.1.6    4 months ago

A former UK PM had the best and last word about socialism and its running out of other people’s money to spend. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.8  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @4.1.6    4 months ago
telling a person "You have no idea of what goes on, on the other side of the Pond" comes with implications about their intelligence compared to yours.

No, it doesn't. It means that I lived there and I was just there and somethings you have to experience. I have spoken to so many Brits about this topic and the one thing that they feel is that we really don't understand their politics, since they even lecture me, and I grew up there.

a socialist is a socialist no matter what side of the pond they are on. and free people "always" get fed up with their BS in the end.   it happens every single time.  the only real question is how long free people put up with it before they put an end to the progressive/socialist/communist bs. 

You do realize that most of Europe has socialism to one extent or another, including England. No one seems fed up yet with that there. The issue for the English is being bossed around and England is tired of it. It has a lot more to do with them being the last empire of Europe and not wanting Germany to tell them what they have to accept or not. That is what caused Brexit. What caused Corbyn to lose, is finally everyone realized what a dirtbag he was. 

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
4.1.9  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.8    4 months ago
. It means that I lived there

military brat and veteran Ive been round the world twice. people are people no matter what country I've lived in.

 that they feel is that we really don't understand their politics, 

I'm not talking about "politics" I'm talking about people and free people do not like unelected bureaucrats collecting taxes from another country while telling them how to live, how to speak, what they can produce, where they can fish, and who they let in their country. they barely put up with that crap coming from their local govt... LOL  that's just human nature. and may the eu die swiftly. 

 

Cheers :)

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.10  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @4.1.9    4 months ago
I'm not talking about "politics" I'm talking about people and free people do not like unelected bureaucrats collecting taxes from another country while telling them how to live, how to speak, what they can produce, where they can fish, and who they let in their country. they barely put up with that crap coming from their local govt... LOL  that's just human nature. and may the eu die swiftly. 

And yet, the Russians were ruled for hundreds of years, first by the tzars and then by the communists, and when they were finally given freedom, they opted back for a dictator. 

There are all kinds of people. The mistake that Americans make over and over is that we think we know what everyone else wants. 

The EU existed before England, as the EC, and it will continue without it. The bigger question is how will England do. I hope for my family's sake, it works out OK. 

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
4.1.11  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.10    4 months ago
And yet, the Russians were ruled for hundreds of years, first by the tzars and then by the communists, and when they were finally given freedom, they opted back for a dictator. 

as you show, they were not free people for hundreds of years

are they still ruled by tzars or communists? not so much

in regards to the usa or uk I said.

the only real question is how long free people put up with it before they put an end to the progressive/socialist/communist bs.  

unlike russia, we don't have a 200 years history of bending a knee. and we will not start now.

 

 

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
4.1.12  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.10    4 months ago
I hope for my family's sake, it works out OK.

everything will work out in the end.  your family will be fine. 

the uk "people will prosper again and the eu will crumble.

no worries.

 
 
 
MUVA
4.1.13  MUVA  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.4    4 months ago

Very cool I have family there Irish my moms maiden name Young usually go there after christmas in the pass to see Man united games I plan on moving there when I retire at least during football season.

 
 
 
MUVA
4.1.14  MUVA  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.8    4 months ago

I go to Manchester basically was there after brexit the people I spoke with, what they call unskilled labor were tired of immigrants taking their jobs. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.15  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @4.1.11    4 months ago

You are moving goal posts. You said:

Ive been round the world twice. people are people no matter what country I've lived in.

And they are not. Then you mention free people. Freedom is relative. 

And of course unlike russia, we don't have a 200 years history of bending a knee. We fought a war over that. 

But we are talking about Europe. And they are very different to us. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.16  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @4.1.12    4 months ago
the uk "people will prosper again and the eu will crumble.

I'm not sure of either. I remember the 70's when England was a mess and the EC was doing amazing. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.17  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  MUVA @4.1.13    4 months ago

You have to love Man United. I know I do. And very cool you go to England. I never knew that about you! 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.18  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  MUVA @4.1.14    4 months ago
I go to Manchester basically was there after brexit the people I spoke with, what they call unskilled labor were tired of immigrants taking their jobs. 

I think that is not quite accurate. Most of the foreign workers are from Slavic countries and they tend to be like our Mexicans. They do yard and clean homes, etc. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
4.1.19  Jack_TX  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.17    4 months ago
You have to love Man United.

*sings "Glory Glory Man United" boisterously*

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.20  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Jack_TX @4.1.19    4 months ago

jrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
4.1.21  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.15    4 months ago
You are moving goal posts.

no, I did not.

I was talking about the usa and the uk "and free people" in today's world. I can admit maybe I was not all to clear... but that is to be expected from me while doing several things at once and having a conversation here at the same time.

comparing that to people under tyranny in russia for a couple hundred years?  that is moving the goal post.

people in the usa and the uk still have the taste of freedom on their lips and can not be expected to react like russians beaten down by tzars or communists for hundreds of years.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
5  Just Jim NC TttH    4 months ago

They even learned from our liberal friends................save the pussy hats.

Several hundred noisy protesters marched through central London on Friday to protest against Britain's election result, chanting "Boris Johnson: Not My Prime Minister" and "Boris, Boris, Boris: Out, Out, Out". 
The protesters, brandishing signs that read "Defy Tory (Conservative) Rule" and "Refugees Welcome", walked at speed from outside Johnson's Downing Street residence to Trafalgar Square and on to the theater district, blocking traffic and drawing a heavy police presence. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/not-my-prime-minister-protesters-march-in-london-against-johnson/ar-AAK6phj?ocid=spartanntp

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @5    4 months ago

That could describe almost any election where someone didn't get who they wanted. 

 
 
 
The People's Fish
6  The People's Fish    4 months ago

Socialism remains nothing more than a failed system that gives unemployed baristas something to chub up about at the hipster circle jerk.

Eventually most of these jerk offs grow up and join reality.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
6.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  The People's Fish @6    4 months ago

And yet, England has limited socialism. But their Tories are a lot more centric than our Republicans. 

 
 
 
MUVA
6.1.1  MUVA  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1    4 months ago

They really can't have much more than this country.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
6.1.2  sandy-2021492  replied to  MUVA @6.1.1    4 months ago

Sure they do.  The NHS.  British conservatives embrace the NHS.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
6.1.3  XDm9mm  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.1.2    4 months ago
Sure they do.  The NHS.  British conservatives embrace the NHS.

Any that think a government provided system is actually good, might want to take the time to read this.

And when reading, remember that Great Britain, and for that matter all other European countries do not have anywhere near the population numbers the United States has nor the geographic size of the US.

Is our system perfect?  Hell no.  But it's better than many others.

 
 
 
The People's Fish
6.1.4  The People's Fish  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1    4 months ago

This was a referendum on the antisemitic socialist. Glad to see them crushed and destroyed.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
6.1.5  sandy-2021492  replied to  XDm9mm @6.1.3    4 months ago

I'd say that nobody thinks the NHS is perfect, either.  Not even Brits.  But how many would dismantle it?

The US health care system and more socialized systems like the NHS could learn from each other.  The US system excels at innovation, but does not always achieve better results.  Consider our maternal mortality - with fewer interventions, the British have a far lower rate of maternal mortality.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
6.1.6  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  MUVA @6.1.1    4 months ago

They have a lot more. Here is a list:

Local government [ edit ]

Companies owned by municipalities of England [ edit ]

Companies owned by municipalities of Scotland [ edit ]

Public corporations of the Scottish Government [ edit ]

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
6.1.7  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.1.5    4 months ago

My cousin's husband is a doctor. He says that most doctors would say that while there are problems with the NHS, it is still better than not having it. Doctors there take care of their NHS patients which provides free basic and nonbasic care, but of course, the ones who are fortunate enough to be able to buy insurance get better care. But he still believes in the NHS, since everyone gets care. Btw.. one must also note that NHS varies from region to region on how well it operates. 

 
 
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