Mr. Trump’s plan would create what he called a Palestinian state with limited sovereignty, and would guarantee that Israel have control of a unified Jerusalem as its capital and not require it to uproot any of the settlements in the West Bank.
“My vision presents a win-win for both sides,” Mr. Trump said at a White House ceremony beside Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, but no counterpart from the Palestinian leadership, which is not on speaking terms with the Trump administration.
President Trump on Tuesday called for a two-state solution to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, as he unveiled the details of his administration’s much-awaited Middle East peace plan.
Trump announced the proposal alongside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu during remarks in the East Room of the White House.
"My vision presents a win-win situation for both sides," Trump said. "Today Israel has taken a giant step toward peace."
He later tweeted a map of the proposed State of Palestine....
All Muslims who come in peace will be welcome to visit and pray at the Al-Aqsa Mosque.
Not even you can think that the Palestinians are going to give up the Al-Aqsa Mosque.
Oh and then look at the fact that Israel gets ALL of the land along the Black Sea. Read that to mean, NO WATER.
Seriously, I suggest that you go to google maps and take a look at the pictures of the area that Trump labels as the 'High tech manufacturing industrial zone' and the 'Residential and agricultural area'. There is NO FUCKING WATER there. It's an EMPTY desert. Not even the Israelis inhabit or cultivate it.
Here's a lovely picture of the 'residential and agricultural zone':
Please pardon my ignorance of Geography, but can you point out to me exactly where Israel has ever bordered the Black Sea? Maybe you meant Lake Ontario.
LOL. I knew that - I was just kidding you. Actually I'd be surprised if they could use the Dead Sea water for drinking water - they could use it to pickle cucumbers. I've tried to swim in the Dead Sea, it's impossible - all you can do is float on top of it. You could throw a stone into it and it would float.
As for your complaint about the residential and industrial areas, I note that there are blue lines connecting them, so for water, are there no piplines, bah, humbug. If the Peace Plan were acceptable to the Palestinians, and it will not be anyway, why would Israel prevent the Palestinians from access to water. As for the photo you posted, that is what Israel looked like before the Israelis made the deserts blossom - and if they can do it, so can the Palestinians, and if there actually is peace I'm positive that Israel would help them do it.
However all of this is merely academic discussion because the Palestinians do not want peace - it's been offered to them many times - 95% of what they demanded, then 97% of what they demanded, but they always walked away from it. The Palestinians do not want peace, they want all of Israel. My personal opinion is that the only solution to the conflict is The Jordan Option, even if it's necessary to force it to happen.
Ordinary sea water - they even built a plant on the California shore. Dead sea water would probably gum up their system. They also have perfected the recycling of waste water, and for growing crops, their system of drip-technology prevents wasteful crop watering.
Some of the original kibbutzim were instrumental in 'brown water' reclamation. Necessity breeds invention. Some of the Earthship homes in Taos use small scale brown water systems based on their experience.
3 weeks more like. It was only just now released, like the China trade deal (part 1), as a distraction from the impeachment and to prove to his sycophants that he is doing something.
Unfortunately, anyone who looks will see that both deals are worth less than the paper they are written on.
as a distraction from the impeachment and to prove to his sycophants that he is doing something.
You mean the impeachment that the democrats promised their triggered snowflakes if they elected them in 2018? Congress should be doing their jobs instead of chasing smoke and mirrors.
The event in the East Room of the White House had a Kabuki-theater quality to it as the president ended years of suspense over a highly touted peace plan that was widely considered dead on arrival. Rather than a serious blueprint for peace, analysts called it a political document by a president in the middle of an impeachment trial working in tandem with a prime minister under criminal indictment and about to face his third election in the span of a year.
Nearly three years in the making and overseen by Mr. Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, the plan is the latest of numerous American efforts to settle the 70-plus-year conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. But it marked a sharp turn in the American approach, dropping decades of American support for only modest adjustments to Israeli borders drawn in 1967 and discarding the longtime goal of granting the Palestinians a full-fledged state.
The whole idea of this non-contiguous Palestine just baffles me. Japan is islands and we have Alaska and Hawaii separate from us, but only water disconnects us, really. Every two-state solution in Palestine I have ever seen has this weird jigsaw puzzle layout and I can't see why that would appeal to anyone.
There was one tweet in two languages that I posted. Someone here deleted the likely Arabic portion of the Presidents tweet with one of the two maps in the tweet.
Trump supports Israel so strongly because his major GOP donors like Sheldon Adelson require it of him, and more importantly I think, because his evangelical Christian base requires it of him.
Trump has made disparaging remarks about Jews in his past, but since he took office I think his eyes are on the prize (his voter base). There is nothing in it for him to offer a peace plan Palestinians could agree to.
It’s a better plan for the Palestinians than what they have now. The longer the Palestinians hold out the lesser of a deal will be coming their way. They should have accepted the Clinton deal in 2000.
Maybe he was talking about the Orthodox Jews that liberal anti Semites attack in our big cities and American Jews voting here but living in Israel, the expats vote.
Right...Just like the Iranian missile defense treaty.
The snap back sanctions were supposed to be applied to missile violations as well. Why would Iran need to develop missiles, especially intercontinental ballistic ones, that are capable of carrying a nuclear payload? It is not like they can create a nuclear warhead or anything?
Oh wait.
Uranium particles of man-made origin have been discovered at a site in Iran not declared to the United Nations, the U.N. atomic watchdog agency said Monday as it confirmed a litany of violations by Tehran of the 2015 nuclear deal.
The International Atomic Energy Agency said Iran has begun enriching uranium at a heavily fortified installation inside a mountain, is increasing its stockpile of processed uranium, and is exceeding the allowable enrichment levels.
All such steps are prohibited under the agreement Iran reached with world powers to prevent it from building a bomb.
I mean they have such a great track record of honoring treaties. We should trust them implicitly to honor a limited, non binding, nuclear agreement that restricts where and when inspections can be conducted.
Iran is part the of ME. They are as fucked up as the rest.
Iranian peace treaty was working until Trump bailed.
What peace treaty was that, You mean the bullshit Nuclear deal that the worthless ass obama passed? The one where lead from behind obama gave Iran everything they asked for without congress consent, that one? The one Iran kept violating so President Trump pulled out, that one?
The "DEAL" Obama and his minions cobbled together was such a piece of shit that he knew better than to even attempt getting it ratified in the Senate as a treaty.
Yet, that "piece of shit", as you put it, was working as designed.
By asking the Palestinians to make far more territorial concessions than past proposals, though, Mr. Trump’s plan provided an American imprimatur of support to decades of aggressive Israeli settlement-building in Palestinian areas seized in two wars between Israel and Arab states. And it sent a grim message to the Palestinians that they have missed their chance to win the “two-state solution” they long pursued — as least so long as Mr. Trump is president.
Mr. Kushner and a small circle of Trump officials chose not to pursue the traditional path of brokering talks between the two parties that could lead to a joint proposal, but to hand one down from Washington. Peace-process veterans say that last happened under President Ronald Reagan in 1982.
Working secretively, Mr. Kushner and his team — which included the American ambassador to Israel, David M. Friedman, a strong supporter of Israeli settlement construction — consulted closely with Mr. Netanyahu’s government. But their contact with Palestinian officials ended after Mr. Trump moved the United States embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv in December 2017.
Rather than court the Palestinians after that, the Trump administration only increased pressure on them, cutting off American funding for Palestinian areas and shuttering the Palestinian diplomatic office in Washington.
That dashed the initial hopes of Palestinians who believed that Mr. Trump’s unorthodox approach toward foreign policy, and his love for a grand deal, could lead him to pressure Israel to a degree they felt previous American presidents had not.
In the near term, the 80-page plan is most likely to stir up Israeli and American politics. Mr. Trump is sure to cite the plan’s pro-Israel slant on the 2020 campaign trail to win support from conservative Jewish Americans in Florida and other key states, along with the Evangelical Christians who are some of his strongest backers and support Israeli expansion in the Holy Land.
While the Palestinians are nearly certain to reject the plan, Trump allies say they will be closely watching other Arab governments with whom Mr. Trump has established close relations and who have thawed relations with Israel, to see whether they might give the plan any political cover.
Speaking in Tel Aviv on Monday, Nikki Haley, Mr. Trump’s former United Nations Ambassador, suggested that such Arab support could force the Palestinians to come to the table. “If the Arab countries respond favorably to the plan, or even if they don’t run to the Palestinian side, that’s going to be a huge, telling lesson to the Palestinians that they may not have the backing they had before,” she said.
As the story says, there is no negotiation that resulted in this plan. It was handed down on high from the White House, which of course means the Palestinians reject it out of hand.
Then they can accept permanent occupation with no annexation and no work in Israel proper and no foreign investment. It’s time for them to realize that they are not equals in any negotiations and that Israel’s security concerns will always trump their desires. They will accept what is offered now or accept the status quo on the wrong side of a very effective border wall.
What most likely happen is that the status quo will stay for 20 more years and every now and then there will be violent uprisings killing and hurting many people.
"...which of course means the Palestinians reject it out of hand."
Oh come on, John, it's so obvious that the only thing that will make the Palestinians including Hamas happy is "Palestine will be free from the river to the sea." Surely we are all not so naive to think that anything less would be acceptable.
That surrender happened in 1967. People who surrendered usually don’t demand terms from the victor but settle for the best that they can get. As of now this is it and like since 2000 each deal will become progressively less attractive to the losers of the wars.
Oh DO tell me all about your vast knowledge about the Six Day War Xx. It may behoove you to review the FACT that it was between Israel, Egypt, Syria and Jordan. The Palestinians weren't 'combatants' nor did the surrender to anyone.
And it sent a grim message to the Palestinians that they have missed their chance to win the “two-state solution” they long pursued — as least so long as Mr. Trump is president.
They've never wanted a "two-state solution". They've rejected every "peace plan" for decades now. Quit trying to sell that lie.
There is as much a chance of the Palestinians accepting this so-called "Deal of the Century" as there is of all Americans giving up their guns. It just ain't gonna happen - what an unbelievable waste of time and effort. Even the discussion about it is a waste of time and effort.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Three years and a DOA peace plan.
Trump said his son in law Kushner would make peace in the M.E., or no one could.
Which one is this, lol.
President Trump on Tuesday called for a two-state solution to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, as he unveiled the details of his administration’s much-awaited Middle East peace plan.
Trump announced the proposal alongside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu during remarks in the East Room of the White House.
"My vision presents a win-win situation for both sides," Trump said. "Today Israel has taken a giant step toward peace."
He later tweeted a map of the proposed State of Palestine....
Look at the fucking map Xx. It states:
Not even you can think that the Palestinians are going to give up the Al-Aqsa Mosque.
Oh and then look at the fact that Israel gets ALL of the land along the Black Sea. Read that to mean, NO WATER.
Seriously, I suggest that you go to google maps and take a look at the pictures of the area that Trump labels as the 'High tech manufacturing industrial zone' and the 'Residential and agricultural area'. There is NO FUCKING WATER there. It's an EMPTY desert. Not even the Israelis inhabit or cultivate it.
Here's a lovely picture of the 'residential and agricultural zone':
Please pardon my ignorance of Geography, but can you point out to me exactly where Israel has ever bordered the Black Sea? Maybe you meant Lake Ontario.
Dead Sea, my bad.
LOL. I knew that - I was just kidding you. Actually I'd be surprised if they could use the Dead Sea water for drinking water - they could use it to pickle cucumbers. I've tried to swim in the Dead Sea, it's impossible - all you can do is float on top of it. You could throw a stone into it and it would float.
As for your complaint about the residential and industrial areas, I note that there are blue lines connecting them, so for water, are there no piplines, bah, humbug. If the Peace Plan were acceptable to the Palestinians, and it will not be anyway, why would Israel prevent the Palestinians from access to water. As for the photo you posted, that is what Israel looked like before the Israelis made the deserts blossom - and if they can do it, so can the Palestinians, and if there actually is peace I'm positive that Israel would help them do it.
However all of this is merely academic discussion because the Palestinians do not want peace - it's been offered to them many times - 95% of what they demanded, then 97% of what they demanded, but they always walked away from it. The Palestinians do not want peace, they want all of Israel. My personal opinion is that the only solution to the conflict is The Jordan Option, even if it's necessary to force it to happen.
The Israelis are pretty fucking awesome at desalination. I read somewhere that they get over 50% of their drinking water from it.
Ordinary sea water - they even built a plant on the California shore. Dead sea water would probably gum up their system. They also have perfected the recycling of waste water, and for growing crops, their system of drip-technology prevents wasteful crop watering.
Some of the original kibbutzim were instrumental in 'brown water' reclamation. Necessity breeds invention. Some of the Earthship homes in Taos use small scale brown water systems based on their experience.
3 weeks more like. It was only just now released, like the China trade deal (part 1), as a distraction from the impeachment and to prove to his sycophants that he is doing something.
Unfortunately, anyone who looks will see that both deals are worth less than the paper they are written on.
You mean the impeachment that the democrats promised their triggered snowflakes if they elected them in 2018? Congress should be doing their jobs instead of chasing smoke and mirrors.
Document that promise or admit your statement was a lie.
Impeachment is part of their jobs....duh....
No it's not a lie, it seems like you are using selective memory...as usual, or just lying.
Yet you provide no evidence to back up your claim.
Like a two state solution has not been thought of before.
I have a feeling this plan offers the Palestinians land they don't want, and removes them from land they do want.
Pretty sure it offers the Palestinians anything the Israelis want to offer them, and nothing more.
You keep spewing that map out without actually LOOKING at it or understanding WTF it means.
I only put it here and nowhere else. Did you know that the seeder of the article changed its headline?
The headline was judged to be correct when the story first published at 12:58.
It has since been updated twice by The New York Times
which apparently changed the headline during one of those revisions.
The headline now matches the link. (again)
Please continue to use the flag option
while avoiding Meta statements like above, SP
What's your point? You've posted it here 3xs. Did you LOOK at it Xx?
How about you address my 1.1.1 comment.
Why are you deflecting?
So what...it all belongs to Israel. These murderous thugs who use women, children, and old people as human shields should be driven out. .
The whole idea of this non-contiguous Palestine just baffles me. Japan is islands and we have Alaska and Hawaii separate from us, but only water disconnects us, really. Every two-state solution in Palestine I have ever seen has this weird jigsaw puzzle layout and I can't see why that would appeal to anyone.
There was one tweet in two languages that I posted. Someone here deleted the likely Arabic portion of the Presidents tweet with one of the two maps in the tweet.
There is no such requirement on NT to change headlines when the source "updates" its headline, or its story for that matter.
I posted the headline that was attached to the story as I found it.
The headline was neither misleading nor created by me.
I wish the mods would delete the foolishness I am responding to instead of "explaining" to it.
The 1949 Armistice Agreement says differently.
The Armistice Agreement did not specify ACTUAL borders - what the actual borders were to be was to be negotiated - it never was.
Conveniently.
You should know, like the rest of us, is that the so called Palestinians, aka Hamas, do not want or desire a "full-fledged state"
They only want to abolish the nation of Israel.
So it fails. Name one ME peace plan that has ever worked?
So much for Trump being anti Semite. Unless you want to claim he is too stupid to know Israel is the home of the Jews./S
Trump supports Israel so strongly because his major GOP donors like Sheldon Adelson require it of him, and more importantly I think, because his evangelical Christian base requires it of him.
Trump has made disparaging remarks about Jews in his past, but since he took office I think his eyes are on the prize (his voter base). There is nothing in it for him to offer a peace plan Palestinians could agree to.
It’s a better plan for the Palestinians than what they have now. The longer the Palestinians hold out the lesser of a deal will be coming their way. They should have accepted the Clinton deal in 2000.
Maybe he was talking about the Orthodox Jews that liberal anti Semites attack in our big cities and American Jews voting here but living in Israel, the expats vote.
When did he do that, and please provide a reference.
Really, John? Why didn't he prevent his daughter from marrying a Jew?
Iranian peace treaty was working until Trump bailed.
Off topic.
[Deleted]
Right...Just like the Iranian missile defense treaty.
The snap back sanctions were supposed to be applied to missile violations as well. Why would Iran need to develop missiles, especially intercontinental ballistic ones, that are capable of carrying a nuclear payload? It is not like they can create a nuclear warhead or anything?
Oh wait.
I mean they have such a great track record of honoring treaties. We should trust them implicitly to honor a limited, non binding, nuclear agreement that restricts where and when inspections can be conducted.
Iran is part the of ME. They are as fucked up as the rest.
What peace treaty was that, You mean the bullshit Nuclear deal that the worthless ass obama passed? The one where lead from behind obama gave Iran everything they asked for without congress consent, that one? The one Iran kept violating so President Trump pulled out, that one?
Yet, that "piece of shit", as you put it, was working as designed.
No it was not, and you can't prove it. The Iranians cheated from the get-go.
That's right, as apiece of shit just like the one that forced it on the American people.
Michelle has them in the last White House such as they were.
Proof...
Every country involved, including America found no violations. So prove your claim or admit it as another lie.
This was November AFTER Trump trashed the deal. Can't you find anything that has to do with what we're talking about?
And here, I'll help you out with more violations that occurred AFTER...
UN reports increasing violations of Iran nuclear deal
By asking the Palestinians to make far more territorial concessions than past proposals, though, Mr. Trump’s plan provided an American imprimatur of support to decades of aggressive Israeli settlement-building in Palestinian areas seized in two wars between Israel and Arab states. And it sent a grim message to the Palestinians that they have missed their chance to win the “two-state solution” they long pursued — as least so long as Mr. Trump is president.
Mr. Kushner and a small circle of Trump officials chose not to pursue the traditional path of brokering talks between the two parties that could lead to a joint proposal, but to hand one down from Washington. Peace-process veterans say that last happened under President Ronald Reagan in 1982.
Working secretively, Mr. Kushner and his team — which included the American ambassador to Israel, David M. Friedman, a strong supporter of Israeli settlement construction — consulted closely with Mr. Netanyahu’s government. But their contact with Palestinian officials ended after Mr. Trump moved the United States embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv in December 2017.
Rather than court the Palestinians after that, the Trump administration only increased pressure on them, cutting off American funding for Palestinian areas and shuttering the Palestinian diplomatic office in Washington.
That dashed the initial hopes of Palestinians who believed that Mr. Trump’s unorthodox approach toward foreign policy, and his love for a grand deal, could lead him to pressure Israel to a degree they felt previous American presidents had not.
In the near term, the 80-page plan is most likely to stir up Israeli and American politics. Mr. Trump is sure to cite the plan’s pro-Israel slant on the 2020 campaign trail to win support from conservative Jewish Americans in Florida and other key states, along with the Evangelical Christians who are some of his strongest backers and support Israeli expansion in the Holy Land.
While the Palestinians are nearly certain to reject the plan, Trump allies say they will be closely watching other Arab governments with whom Mr. Trump has established close relations and who have thawed relations with Israel, to see whether they might give the plan any political cover.
Speaking in Tel Aviv on Monday, Nikki Haley, Mr. Trump’s former United Nations Ambassador, suggested that such Arab support could force the Palestinians to come to the table. “If the Arab countries respond favorably to the plan, or even if they don’t run to the Palestinian side, that’s going to be a huge, telling lesson to the Palestinians that they may not have the backing they had before,” she said.
As the story says, there is no negotiation that resulted in this plan. It was handed down on high from the White House, which of course means the Palestinians reject it out of hand.
Then they can accept permanent occupation with no annexation and no work in Israel proper and no foreign investment. It’s time for them to realize that they are not equals in any negotiations and that Israel’s security concerns will always trump their desires. They will accept what is offered now or accept the status quo on the wrong side of a very effective border wall.
What most likely happen is that the status quo will stay for 20 more years and every now and then there will be violent uprisings killing and hurting many people.
You just described and unconditional surrender, NOT a peace plan.
and every now and then there will be violent uprisings killing and hurting many people.
That will result from Israel being attacked and provoked by Hamas, just like always.
They aren't in a position to force the issue, since they are at a material and manpower disadvantage and they always start the violence.
.
Oh come on, John, it's so obvious that the only thing that will make the Palestinians including Hamas happy is "Palestine will be free from the river to the sea." Surely we are all not so naive to think that anything less would be acceptable.
That surrender happened in 1967. People who surrendered usually don’t demand terms from the victor but settle for the best that they can get. As of now this is it and like since 2000 each deal will become progressively less attractive to the losers of the wars.
Oh DO tell me all about your vast knowledge about the Six Day War Xx. It may behoove you to review the FACT that it was between Israel, Egypt, Syria and Jordan. The Palestinians weren't 'combatants' nor did the surrender to anyone.
The PLO didn't become the representatives of the Palestinian people until 1993.
Does it say in there when the Palestinians surrendered?
They've never wanted a "two-state solution". They've rejected every "peace plan" for decades now. Quit trying to sell that lie.
Like their apologists among the squad their real desire is from the river to the sea.
My vision presents a win-win for both sides,” Mr. Trump
Translation - I know there is a way I can profit from this. (Blows Ben a kiss).
Do tell us all about how Trump will profit from this.
There is as much a chance of the Palestinians accepting this so-called "Deal of the Century" as there is of all Americans giving up their guns. It just ain't gonna happen - what an unbelievable waste of time and effort. Even the discussion about it is a waste of time and effort.
Like always, the Palestinians don't really seem to want their own state.
What they seem to want is Israel.
all of it.
"Mr. Trump’s plan would create what he called a Palestinian state with limited sovereignty"
Maybe.....Just maybe..... if they showed any inkling of "Producing anything more than just Terrorism", they could get Full Sovereignty ?