Goodbye, Europe. After years of Brexit turmoil, Britain finally leaves the E.U.

  
Via:  perrie-halpern  •  2 weeks ago  •  85 comments

By:   Alexander Smith

Goodbye, Europe. After years of Brexit turmoil, Britain finally leaves the E.U.
"Our job as the government — my job — is to bring this country together and take us forward," Prime Minister Boris Johnson said.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


LONDON — It happened — the United Kingdom walked away from the world's largest political and economic club.

After 47 years of membership — and more than three years of political uncertainty, rancor and division — the United Kingdom officially   left the European Union on Friday .

The   Brexit   divorce was made official at the stroke of 11 p.m. local time (6 p.m. ET), with the image of a countdown clock projected onto Prime Minister Boris Johnson's official residence, No. 10 Downing St.

With a population of more than 513 million, the E.U. has its roots in the years after   World War II , created partly from a desire to ensure no such conflict could ever happen again. It is one of a handful of institutions that have come to define the postwar consensus and even the West itself — but a pact that in recent years has been put under extreme strain.

For the U.K., a powerful empire stretching across the world less than a century ago, Brexit is a historic milestone in its modern history, set to define its new alliances in a rapidly shifting geopolitical landscape. But even some supporters see it as a huge gamble.

In a recorded speech, the prime minister sought to help heal a deeply divided nation.

"Our job as the government — my job — is to bring this country together and take us forward," said Johnson, the leader of the Conservative Party. The party's decadeslong internecine battle over Britain's membership in the E.U. precipitated the 2016 Brexit vote.

"This is the dawn of a new era in which we no longer accept that your life chances — your family's life chances — should depend on which part of the country you grow up in," he added, a likely reference to the Conservatives' recent success in wooing voters from the north of England who had traditionally voted for the opposition.

200131-anti-brexit-se-111p_07b0fd5d88687 Anti-Brexit protester holds illuminated Union and E.U. flags near the Houses of Parliament in London. Tolga Akmen / AFP - Getty Images

To celebrate the event, thousands of people descended on a pro-Brexit rally outside Parliament, an event awash with union flags, but also other banners denouncing the "traitors" who oppose Brexit.

"I think it's great that it's happening, finally, after so much dither and delay," said Luke Doherty, 21, a student at Cardiff University in Wales, who was one of those who braved a drizzly night in central London. "At last, we're going to get on with what people voted for in 2016."

Chris Sergeant, 70, traveled down from Oxford to mark the occasion. "We're now free to do what we want," he said, wearing a knitted union flag sweater, hat and pin. "Anyone who isn't celebrating tonight, they've got to get over that."

People traveled from all over the U.K., with northern English, Welsh and Scottish accents heard among the crowd. Shouts of "Rule Britannia" and "Come on, England!" punctuated the night air, as well as angry boos for the media and anti-Brexit politicians.

Perhaps not wanting to gloat, the government opted for a modest light show and the release of a commemorative 50 pence coin, rather than an ostentatious fireworks display or a larger event.

Steve Baker, a Conservative lawmaker, tweeted that he was "bearing in mind our need to unite this country when many people feel great sorrow about leaving the E.U." He said he was "encouraging magnanimity from Brexit supporters."

200131-brexit-celebrations-se-615p_3829f Thousands of people packed out Parliament Square, in London, as the U.K. counted down to the moment of Brexit. Henry Nicholls / Reuters

But despite Johnson's and the government's conciliatory tone, the wounds of Brexit show little signs of healing.

After all,   the June 23, 2016, referendum   was a close one, with 52 percent voting to leave the E.U. and 48 percent to remain.   Recent polls suggest   that opinion has since swung the other way, but only just.

And, yet, this epochal moment will have   almost zero immediate impact   on Britons' daily lives.

Friday marks more of a starting point than a destination with months, if not years, of complex and surely difficult negotiations to go. The milestone triggers an 11-month transition period in which the U.K. and the E.U. will attempt to thrash out their future trading relationship.

Johnson says he wants a bespoke agreement that satisfies a string of promises that he sold to voters who elected him in December. Many in Europe, not to mention plenty of independent experts, say that given the lack of time, his goal is optimistic in the extreme.

Much is still uncertain about how the project will turn out, but economists are near unanimous in forecasting the divorce will do some level of economic damage to the U.K. and its neighbors.

Despite these warnings, polls suggest that most Brits who voted for Brexit still believe in it. Many did so because they felt too many decisions were taken in Brussels, the E.U.'s political heart. Others saw it as a way to curb immigration.

On the other side of this culture war, Remainers are more likely to be younger people, college graduates and ethnic minorities living in cities, and inclined to support issues such as multiculturalism, environmentalism and feminism,   according to polling .

Brexiteers are more likely to be older, less well-educated people living in regional towns, who tend to oppose those causes. They herald this as a new era of "global Britain," but critics worry it will expose the U.K. as a medium-size nation competing in a superpower world.

200131-brexit-celebrations-nigel-farage- Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage celebrates during the rally in London on Friday. Frank Augstein / AP

It also means Britain will try to forge a closer relationship with President Donald Trump — a man who is widely disliked here.

The president "has long supported the United Kingdom's sovereign decision to withdraw from the European Union," U.S. Ambassador Robert Johnson said in a statement Friday. "Now that the U.K. is back in control of its own trade policy, we look forward to achieving a broad free trade agreement that will increase prosperity and create jobs in both our countries."

The move also raises serious questions for the E.U. itself.

Aside from losing its second largest economy, the bloc — now depleted to 27 members — is struggling to respond to right-wing populism, climate change and growing competition between Washington and Beijing.

At midnight, for the first time in 70 years, a country will leave the European Union," French President Emmanuel Macron said in an address to his nation Friday. "It is a historic alarm signal that must be heard in each of our countries."

It also remains to be seen how Brexit will stress the bonds of the U.K. itself. In Scotland and Northern Ireland, where most people voted against leaving the E.U., support for independence from London   appears to be on the rise .

The Brexit process became so tumultuous that at times it looked like it might never happen.

Political norms have been shattered on a seemingly weekly basis. Brexit has seen two prime ministers, David Cameron and Theresa May, both humiliated, while Johnson has engaged in levels of political brinkmanship that shocked allies and opponents alike.

But Brexit was all but confirmed, however, when Johnson won resoundingly during a Dec. 12 election, and with it a mandate to drive through his Brexit plans.

For the anti-Brexit campaigners, the dream is over. Despite their best efforts, there is now no turning back, short of the distant prospect of applying to rejoin someday.

Aside from drowning their sorrows in pubs, there are also a number of europhile events dotted across the country, including the "Rally to rejoin the E.U." outside Parliament that 1,000 Facebook users say they will attend.

Their mood was summed up by Guy Verhofstadt, a lawmaker and Brexit coordinator in the European Parliament.

"Churchill's aspirational words still hold true today more than ever,"   he tweeted , followed by a quote from Britain's wartime leader. "Men will be proud to say 'I am a European.' We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land.

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Donald J. Trump fan 1
1  Donald J. Trump fan 1    2 weeks ago

A great day for America and the U.K. Brexit and Trumps effective acquittal.  Time for a closer relationship between the U.K. and USA.  

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2  Buzz of the Orient    2 weeks ago

@ Perrie

How do your relatives in England feel about this?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2    2 weeks ago

They are mixed. My uncle and aunt are Brexit but their children are remainers. It seems the younger generation saw the benefit of being in the EU, and by younger I mean 35-47.

 
 
 
Ender
2.1.1  Ender  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1    2 weeks ago

From what I have seen, it seems to me the younger people wanted to remain. It was the older generations that wanted to leave.

It seems like here where the older generations tend to vote more.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.1.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1    2 weeks ago

I guess freedom of travel through the European countries is more attractive to the younger generation while retaining traditional rights without restriction is better appreciated by the elders. 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
3  Ed-NavDoc    2 weeks ago

For some reason, every single time I see a photo of Boris Johnson, the first thing that comes to mind is, does this man own a comb at all?

 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @3    2 weeks ago
the first thing that comes to mind is, does this man own a comb at all?

Not my first thought, but I have to admit, it does beg the question!! jrSmiley_79_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
squiggy
3.2  squiggy  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @3    2 weeks ago

Politicians don't seem inclined to use a mirror often...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
4  Vic Eldred    2 weeks ago

Happy Independence Day to the UK!  I hope President Trump arranges a special trade deal for our special friends.


a27ed46ca47d9f6a3129726a45849418
The British flag has been removed from its flagpole outside the European Parliament

 
 
 
WallyW
5  WallyW    2 weeks ago

Now the UK can craft its own immigration policy.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
6  XDm9mm    2 weeks ago

Imagine that.  A country that wants to rule and govern itself free of bureaucrats in another country. 

A country free to consider what is in it's best interest first and other nations second.

A country free to make trade deals in it's best interest first and other nations second.

A country free to set it's own immigration policy and not have it dictated by others.

Congratulations Great Britain.  You've learned what we in America have known for a couple of hundred years.

Welcome to freedom and independence. 

 
 
 
r.t..b...
6.1  r.t..b...  replied to  XDm9mm @6    2 weeks ago
Welcome to freedom and independence.

Turning to isolationism and nationalism in the face of the inevitable globalization of economies and all that entails is the definition of 'cutting off your nose to spite the face.' The UK has been (emphasis on has been) the leader in the financial market for centuries, but now is relegated to second tier status. Not to mention the daunting task of maintaining their delicate coalition in the aftermath of this decision...will Scotland choose to stay and will Ireland eventually become unified and also choose self-determination? 

A cautionary tale, perhaps.

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
6.1.1  Dean Moriarty  replied to  r.t..b... @6.1    2 weeks ago

Switzerland never joined, sell their products all over the world and earn more money than the Brits.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
6.1.3  XDm9mm  replied to  r.t..b... @6.1    2 weeks ago
Turning to isolationism and nationalism in the face of the inevitable globalization of economies and all that entails is the definition of 'cutting off your nose to spite the face.'

So by that standard, you're saying that America is isolationist?

And I might add that economies are essentially already "globalized" to a degree.  Hell, America or China sneezes and the rest of the world hides under the covers.  And that is actually quite evident in the currently happening corona-virus outbreak.   Of course, even that won't stop global trade, it will simply slow it somewhat.

However, I'm a strong "nationalist" if wanting what's best for America first, before being concerned about what's best for another country.

I'm a strong nationalist if wanting American sovereignty predicated on what is best for America as opposed to what others think we should do.

I'll posit that America will be the leader in the financial markets for the foreseeable future.  Of course that is subject to change, but I'll further posit that President Trump has possibly forestalled China replacing us anytime soon, regardless of their ambitions and aspirations.

Not to mention the daunting task of maintaining their delicate coalition in the aftermath of this decision...will Scotland choose to stay and will Ireland eventually become unified and also choose self-determination?

That is their choice.  Of course, both have more in common with England than "Great Britain" had with the rest of mainland Europe, so I suspect that they will maintain the status quo of a unified national entity.

 
 
 
r.t..b...
6.1.4  r.t..b...  replied to  XDm9mm @6.1.3    2 weeks ago
you're saying that America is isolationist?

In the xenophobic rhetoric, the belittling of our traditional allies, and the unilateral decisions being made under this administration (without the consult of our internal agencies) how can one one argue that that is not the intent?

While we focus on the political ramifications of the Russian influence in the short term, it is the Chinese that will benefit in the long run. They will (if they have not already) become  the major player on the global monetary stage...just look at the dip in stocks yesterday in the wake of the coronavirus scare and it's implication on our manufacturers who so heavily rely on their labor. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
6.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  r.t..b... @6.1.4    2 weeks ago
In the xenophobic rhetoric, the belittling of our traditional allies, and the unilateral decisions being made under this administration (without the consult of our internal agencies) how can one one argue that that is not the intent?

Do you have examples for each of the things you described?

 
 
 
XDm9mm
6.1.6  XDm9mm  replied to  r.t..b... @6.1.4    2 weeks ago
In the xenophobic rhetoric, the belittling of our traditional allies, and the unilateral decisions being made under this administration (without the consult of our internal agencies) how can one one argue that that is not the intent?

The easy and true argument is that is only in the eyes and minds of the Trump haters of America.

While we focus on the political ramifications of the Russian influence in the short term, it is the Chinese that will benefit in the long run.

And who pray tell is so focused on Russia?   If any are unaware, foreign interference in our elections, and us in theirs, is nothing new.   It has been going on, well since we established this country. 

And who may I ask is doing what he can to put road blocks in the way of the Chinese and not roll over like all of his predecessors have since Reagan?

They will (if they have not already) become  the major player on the global monetary stage... 

They made plays several years ago, at the height of the housing crash and market losses, to replace the dollar as the global currency reserve with the Yuan.  And we know what the global currency reserve is and very likely will remain so.  The global financial markets all know the Chinese manipulate their currency to their benefit and no rational market trader will fall for the Communist Chinese claim of 'fairness'.

just look at the dip in stocks yesterday in the wake of the coronavirus scare and it's implication on our manufacturers who so heavily rely on their labor.

Another great reason for manufacturers to repatriate the jobs they took to China.  Stability and a much more robust and advanced medical system capable of dealing with situations like China is attempting to right now, with little success.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
6.1.7  Greg Jones  replied to  XDm9mm @6.1.3    2 weeks ago
So by that standard, you're saying that America is isolationist?

I think what is happening is that we have a president who is more concerned with what will benefit the USA and its people most as his primary objective.. That would include not meddling in other nations affairs or provide defense and other aid to them to the detriment of the US. This would also include working out mutually rewarding trade deals.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
6.1.8  XDm9mm  replied to  Greg Jones @6.1.7    2 weeks ago
I think what is happening is that we have a president who is more concerned with what will benefit the USA and its people most as his primary objective.

And the globalists hate that.   Trump is not playing the One World Order game.

 
 
 
Donald J. Trump fan 1
6.1.9  Donald J. Trump fan 1  replied to  r.t..b... @6.1    2 weeks ago

The UK has its own commonwealth of nations and the USA to still deal with.  Not isolationism.  

 
 
 
r.t..b...
6.1.10  r.t..b...  replied to  XDm9mm @6.1.6    2 weeks ago
The easy and true argument is that is only in the eyes and minds of the Trump haters of America.

Just using his own words, on the record and easily accessible. The only 'easy' argument is in ignoring those words and continuing to obfuscate what he has already stated.

Unless of course, it was a joke, it was walked back, or it was somehow misconstrued, and then it becomes a little more difficult, no?

 
 
 
r.t..b...
6.1.11  r.t..b...  replied to  Texan1211 @6.1.5    2 weeks ago
Do you have examples for each of the things you described?

....google 'trump xenophobia' and give yourself a couple of hours to digest (and ultimately) discount the evidence.

 
 
 
Texan1211
6.1.12  Texan1211  replied to  r.t..b... @6.1.11    2 weeks ago

No would have sufficed nicely.

 
 
 
r.t..b...
6.1.13  r.t..b...  replied to  Texan1211 @6.1.12    2 weeks ago
No would have sufficed nicely.

'Know' would be even better.

 
 
 
Texan1211
6.1.14  Texan1211  replied to  r.t..b... @6.1.13    2 weeks ago
'Know' would be even better.

Okay, have it your way.

I "know" I won't get all frenzied up over some perceived xenophobia.

All better now?

 
 
 
Ender
6.1.15  Ender  replied to  XDm9mm @6.1.6    2 weeks ago

And where has this administration gotten with China? About the same place as everyone else. Meanwhile China is spreading all over Africa and South America with ports and rail systems.

I would argue that we manipulate currency just as much as any other country.

Saying that people cannot see things because of a trump hatred, I could turn around and say the opposite. Some are so blinded by their adoration that they do not see.

Imo, no matter what people say or how many environmental regulations are rescinded, manufacturing will never come back to where they were in the past. No matter how much some rail against globalism, we are global and so are corporations. They will go to where labor and costs are going to benefit their bottom line.

I read an article (can't find it right now) that during the trade wars with China several companies just moved to Taiwan.

Funny about the globalist hate this and that yet again, corporations are global and we rely on a global market. Hell 30% of the action in our stock market is from global investors.

 
 
 
Ender
6.1.16  Ender  replied to  Texan1211 @6.1.14    2 weeks ago
We live in perilous times in an imperiled world. The most dramatic shift of power and wealth since the ascent of the United States to worldwide dominance a hundred years ago puts an end to 500 years of Western (and white) hegemony. China’s rise from international insignificance to global clout is changing the power balance. The Chinese model – capitalism plus authoritarianism – poses a grave challenge to the Western system of free market democracy, as despots all over the world are eager to emulate it. The liberal international order, built by America after World War II and sustained by its European allies ever since, is collapsing. Democracy is in retreat; nationalism and tribalism are gaining ground; and global instability continues to grow. Even in the so-called free world, democracy is again at risk.

Worse yet: Facing a China on the rise and a disruptive Russia in a world replete with threats and disorder, what used to be known as “the West” is breaking down. The cause, in the eyes of most Europeans, is President Donald Trump’s apparent determination to destroy the world order the US created: the web of alliances and institutions that underwrote freedom, safeguarded peace and promoted prosperity. “Today,” Robert Kagan states in his recent article titled “The Cost of American Retreat,” “the US seems bent on relinquishing its duties in pushing back the jungle.” Atlas, the Titan of endurance, is tired of holding up the sky.

This is not a new phenomenon. Isola­tionism has been the twin of imperialism throughout America’s 242-year history. Swings from geopolitical outreach to withdrawal into its continental shell have punctuated the country’s policy. The current retreat has been long in coming. It was George W. Bush who first pulled back from multilateralism, making unilateralism his guiding principle. Barack Obama prioritized nation-building at home and leading from behind. Under Donald Trump, strategic restraint has shriveled to strategic retreat. He refuses to lead. His battle cry “America first” jettisons the basic concept that deal-making means taking the interests of your partners into account instead of rudely overpowering and crushing them. Trump is the first to think that the American world order undermines American greatness – Mark Leonard’s sly remark is dead-on. For the time being, the president marks an inflection point.

http://www.german-times.com/americas-retreat-and-donald-trumps-refusal-to-lead-are-putting-the-trans-atlantic-alliance-at-risk/
 
 
 
Texan1211
6.1.17  Texan1211  replied to  Ender @6.1.16    2 weeks ago

Interesting theories, but hardly to do with xenophobia.

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.18  Split Personality  replied to  Donald J. Trump fan 1 @6.1.9    2 weeks ago
The UK has its own commonwealth of nations

The UK officially consists of 4 "countries", Scotland, Northern Ireland, "Wales" and England.

One country which is threatening to leave, One held by force of arms, One is for all intents and purposes for show only. Oh, and of course, "merry ole" England.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
6.1.19  XDm9mm  replied to  Ender @6.1.15    2 weeks ago
And where has this administration gotten with China? About the same place as everyone else. Meanwhile China is spreading all over Africa and South America with ports and rail systems.

Tell me which other country has accomplished getting any kind of deal with China.   It's a START.  As is often said, Rome wasn't built in a day, stopping what China has been permitted to do for the last 50 or 60 years to global detriment won't be stopped in a day either.

I would argue that we manipulate currency just as much as any other country.

How so?  Are we devaluing it as others do and have to make it look like a stable currency?  If we did that, do you actually believe it would be the global reserve currency?

Saying that people cannot see things because of a trump hatred, I could turn around and say the opposite. Some are so blinded by their adoration that they do not see.

What adoration do you speak of?  The man personally or his accomplishments?   He's a braggart, arrogant  and more often than not obnoxious.  But you can't deny his success.  Well, some try to, but that's their dislike of the man more than reality.

Imo, no matter what people say or how many environmental regulations are rescinded, manufacturing will never come back to where they were in the past.

Who says it will?   There is this thing called automation that needs to be understood.  But I would prefer those jobs and production lines, even utilizing that automation be done here rather than overseas.  This nation cannot survive as the retail arm of the Peoples Liberation Army of the Peoples Republic of China.  We need to produce more of our own consumer goods and be less dependent on others for that.

No matter how much some rail against globalism, we are global and so are corporations. They will go to where labor and costs are going to benefit their bottom line.

No one denies that.  But, Americans need to remind companies that without a strong manufacturing base here at home, eventually the American consumer will be looking for replacement companies to provide the product.  I've always looked for the MADE IN AMERICA label, even if it costs a bit more.  I'd rather put my AMERICAN neighbor, regardless of where he or she lives in this country to work than someone in China, or Germany, or Thailand or any other place on the planet.

I read an article (can't find it right now) that during the trade wars with China several companies just moved to Taiwan.

Yes some did.  Amazing isn't it what a little pressure can do?  Some of those companies also opted to open manufacturing operations here in America.  

Funny about the globalist hate this and that yet again, corporations are global and we rely on a global market. Hell 30% of the action in our stock market is from global investors.

No one is claiming "globalist hate" except maybe you.  I simply want a level playing field where Americans are not taken advantage of.  Is that not a noble desire?

 
 
 
Ender
6.1.20  Ender  replied to  XDm9mm @6.1.19    2 weeks ago

What adoration do I speak of? Haha  Really? I see it here on a daily basis. Hell you are a staunch defender.

He really got no deal with China. Notice not even republicans are bragging on it.

Acting like I don't know about automation is ridiculous. All you are doing with that is now change the parameters. You still think that we can just automatically make companies bring manufacturing here.

I had said before that if people didn't want to buy a product, if it got too expensive, they would change their tune and how they operate. I then was promptly told that would make these companies go out of business and people would lose jobs and I shouldn't want something like that. Now all the sudden if they don't bring manufacturing here you don't care if they go out of business and all jobs are lost.

Even if a company is global and has manufacturing overseas, do you think it would have zero impact here?

People can say that all needs to me manufactured here yet when a lot of people would rather it not be, say for pollution concerns, their concerns should just be over ridden?

Do you think a consumer would be happy paying double for a flat screen tv?

It is not as easy and simple as threatening them to make them come here.

As far as globalist hate, I meant hatred some seem to have for so called globalist people and policies, so don't throw that on me. Though it seems like some like to do that.

Hating global policy and acting like the US can do it all on their own is delusion at this point in time.

Edit: I would consider things like quantitative easing currency manipulation.

 
 
 
It Is ME
7  It Is ME    2 weeks ago

Goodbye, Europe. After years of Brexit turmoil, Britain finally leaves the E.U

Independence Day ….. AGAIN ! jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
WallyW
8  WallyW    2 weeks ago
Will the self-isolated UK cut into these markets?

Why not?

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
9  Thrawn 31    2 weeks ago

Good luck entering every negotiation from a substantially weaker position Britain!

 
 
 
XDm9mm
9.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Thrawn 31 @9    2 weeks ago
Good luck entering every negotiation from a substantially weaker position Britain!

They'll do fine.   The first trade deal that will emerge will very likely be with us, as in The United States of America, and that will be used as the bench mark for others. 

Don't forget, now that President Trump has gotten the USMCA approved, has initiated initial deals with China, he has, as he noted the other night, set his sights on Europe.  I feel fairly certain that while the EU would like to be in the drivers seat, each individual country will find they are better suited to negotiate individual trade deals with America which will be beneficial to each other as opposed to being beneficial to some bureaucrats in Brussels.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
10  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.    2 weeks ago

Brexit would have never happened if the North Country didn't vote for it and in reality, most Brits at the time didn't know what they were really voting for. It is a bit xenophobic. They wanted the Slavs out of the country. The northerners are quite hateful of even people who came in that were part of the commonwealth, like Indians, and Jamaicans. They don't like Jews either. 

Brexit has caused also a huge loss in the banking industry, which the UK was really involved in. It might also cause the loss of Scottland, which would be a huge economic loss. 

They did gain self-governance again. I suspect that was always in the back of their minds, hence why they kept the pound. 

How this will shake out, only time will tell. 

 
 
 
jungkonservativ111
10.1  jungkonservativ111  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @10    2 weeks ago

Why is xenophobia such a big problem with you? It is their homeland. They didnt immigrate  there they built it. Its only natural they want to protect it from other cultures. British culture is amazing and should  remain unadulterated. If you moved to China there would surely be many chinese who despise you because  you are not chinese. And you would understand that im sure. But if Britains do it, or french, or god forbid germans, than its wrong for some reason. Ill never understand  people like that

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
10.1.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  jungkonservativ111 @10.1    2 weeks ago
there would surely be many chinese who despise you because  you are not chinese

Defending racism, are we?

 
 
 
Split Personality
10.1.2  Split Personality  replied to  jungkonservativ111 @10.1    2 weeks ago
They didnt immigrate  there they built it.

OMG...

jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
jungkonservativ111
10.1.3  jungkonservativ111  replied to  sandy-2021492 @10.1.1    2 weeks ago

No im just pointing out it is human nature to be warry of foreingers. If you love your culture i think its instictive to want to protect it from other cultures. I really dont see that as being a bad trait. We should be open minded as to what other cultures have to offer, but understand they can pose a threat to native cultures. Nothing wrong with being worried about that. All things in moderation 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
10.1.4  sandy-2021492  replied to  jungkonservativ111 @10.1.3    2 weeks ago

"Despise" does not equal "be warry (sic) of".

 
 
 
jungkonservativ111
10.1.5  jungkonservativ111  replied to  Split Personality @10.1.2    2 weeks ago

Not sure what your problem is. An immigrant is someone who moves to a foreign country. England was founded by the anglos of the area, therefore they didnt immigrate to England, they founded it. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
10.1.6  Split Personality  replied to  jungkonservativ111 @10.1.5    2 weeks ago
England was founded by the anglos of the area, therefore they didnt immigrate to England, they founded it. 

Utter nonsense. 

The Anglo Saxons were just one of many waves of invaders that settled in the British Isles.

People as we know them arrived on the British Isles some 400,000 years ago.

Around 700BC the Celts ruled from Turkey to Great Britain but the Romans despised them and fought them pushing them farther and farther north and west until they invaded Great Britain in  55BC providing at least some written history of that period; they were followed by the Germanic tribes, the Normans, the Norwegians, the Vikings, the French Gauls and the Scots over and over again. They share common ancestry with the Basgues of Spain & France.

They are a nation of immigrants who cling to their Celtic pasts because most of Europe, invaders and defenders alike, was at one time or another Celtic.

After "settling" the 2nd war with Scotland in 1357, England turned her eyes to the world, eventually invading all but 22 of the world's current countries, ( one of which is The Vatican )

https://www.indy100.com/article/uk-great-britain-invasion-empire-war-conquest-globe-invaded-2017-7460711

They brought back Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Africans and Muslims by the boatloads over the last thousand years.  Fully 20% of the UK was non white at the 2011 census.

The Syrian refugees that they are freaking out about are actually white Christians and Muslims.

But they aren't really white or Christian to the average white British Brexit supporter.

Pretty typical racism and selfishness.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
10.1.7  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  jungkonservativ111 @10.1    2 weeks ago

Don't suppose you are familiar with the Norse, the Normans, the Anglo-Saxons, or the Celts?

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
10.2  Dean Moriarty  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @10    2 weeks ago

Tiny Switzerland is a world renowned banking hub and was never in the EU. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banking_in_Switzerland

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
11  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.    2 weeks ago

It is xenophobia because these people are part of the commonwealth and as part are allowed to immigrate to the UK. You seem to forget that,  I lived there, so I heard what the people said and it ain't pretty. Hell, they called my kids mixed race, because they thought my husband, who's people came from Hungry, looked Arab. They said this to my face as a kind of backhanded compliment. "Oh look at those twinies. Aren't they pretty? Goes to show that mixed-race children can come out looking so pretty. 

Lovely to hear when you are visiting a stately home. And they were only starting up when a similar minded family joined the group. Then we got to hear who else they hated and why they were supporting the BNP. 

As for China, ask Buzz if he finds it xenophobic. I don't talk about what I don't know.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
12  Sean Treacy    2 weeks ago

"Europe" was sold to the people as a lie. It's interesting recall the Europhile promises that were promised when England voted to join the common market. How they'd never lose any sovereignty, how they'd always have the right vote on further integration  etc.. Those who saw the common market as the first step in a much larger political project were ridiculed as cranks and were dismissed as outside of the mainstream.

And Brexit really only became a possibility with the appalling handling of the Lisbon Treaty,when Blair reneged on a promise to hold a referendum despite overwhelming popular support for the referundum, the leave party got it's legs. Because it was clear the elites were simply going to keep handing more control over to Brussels without any reference to the will of the people.  Thus the typical anti-Democratic handling of Lisbon caused enough of a backlash to force a promise of a referendum the next time Europe took more power from Parliament.  

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
12.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Sean Treacy @12    2 weeks ago

Actually Sean, you kind of hit the nail on the head as to what happened. I wouldn't use the word "elites". It seems these days that having a brain is something to put down. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
12.1.1  Split Personality  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @12.1    2 weeks ago

I have read and watched different versions of "pride and prejudice",  even "pride and prejudice and zombies",

the latest erudition of the story.

All it boils down to is a caste system of olde, which modern Brits apparently want to return to.

More white nationalism, Victorian style.

 
 
 
bbl-1
13  bbl-1    2 weeks ago

Britain, under the guidance of Farage and the political manipulation of Johnson has taken Britain from the European Alliance.  Time will tell how this works out.  It may be positive or it may be negative.  Yet there is another question which should be pondered concerning this exit.  The question is whether this is an advantage to Putin's future plans in his dealings with Europe? 

 
 
 
Split Personality
13.1  Split Personality  replied to  bbl-1 @13    2 weeks ago

Of course it is.  It is as true today as it was when Ben Franklin said it first.

We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.

Benjamin Franklin

 
 
 
bbl-1
13.1.1  bbl-1  replied to  Split Personality @13.1    2 weeks ago

Then, if Putin's and Russian geopolitical interests were at play and involved in this Brexit ordeal, then why did the British electorate decide to do this?  Are Russian sympathies gaining strength in the Western democracies?

 
 
 
Split Personality
13.1.2  Split Personality  replied to  bbl-1 @13.1.1    2 weeks ago

The British miss the caste system of the gilded Victorian age.

Nothing more, nothing less. friend BBL

 
 
 
bbl-1
13.1.3  bbl-1  replied to  Split Personality @13.1.2    2 weeks ago

Pondered your thoughts.  I will politely disagree.  The Brits have done well since the so called Gilded Age faded into the dust bin of nostalgia.  I suspect the realization of competing in an even more competitive world has many of them in awe.  Afraid to confront it and unsure how to succeed.  Therefore, the Putin play of fear and division coaxed many of them to take the easier path which will prove to be the wrong one and the most difficult.

This is my take.  Putin is assaulting The Western Democracies. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
13.1.4  Split Personality  replied to  bbl-1 @13.1.3    2 weeks ago

The two ideas are not mutually exclusive of each other.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
13.2  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  bbl-1 @13    2 weeks ago
Time will tell how this works out

when it is shown britains economy improved from leaving, more countries will follow the uk.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
14  The Magic Eight Ball    2 weeks ago

trade agreements that magically turn into a government?  ludicrous plan from the word go.

the good news? gloablism is toast.

where ever the USA and the UK go?   the world follows.   (still true to this day)

 

Remainers are more likely to be younger people, college graduates and ethnic minorities living in cities, and inclined to support issues such as multiculturalism, environmentalism and feminism, 

Brexiteers are more likely to be older, less well-educated people living in regional towns, 

a college degree does not make people wiser. life experience does.

 
 
 
Ender
14.1  Ender  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @14    2 weeks ago

Depends I guess on what tiny part of the world one is in.

If globalism is toast, say goodbye to cellphones, laptops, flat screen tvs...

Might have a hard time getting a complete automobile.

Hell trump would have to discontinue his merchandise.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
14.1.1  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Ender @14.1    2 weeks ago
If globalism is toast, say goodbye to cellphones, laptops, flat screen tvs

not a chance. nice fear mongering though.... top job :)

globalism and trade are two completely different things.

hint: it is possible to trade apples, oranges, and cars without imposing laws on the people made by unelected people from other countries. 

trade agreements that magically turn into governments will always fail.  globalism is toast. 

people prefer global trade and local government, 

 had the eu not got involved in telling brits how to live, where they can fish and such the eu would have lasted much longer.

 
 
 
Split Personality
14.1.2  Split Personality  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @14.1.1    2 weeks ago
trade agreements that magically turn into governments will always fail

please entertain us with examples.

I'll go make some popcorn.

 
 
 
Ender
14.1.3  Ender  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @14.1.1    2 weeks ago

I hate to break it to you but, trade is globalism.

When parts for things come from different corners of the globe, one cannot make it by themselves.

I also have to ask...How would a trade agreement turn into government?

You really lost me on that one. That would mean our government consists of our current agreements...

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
14.1.4  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Split Personality @14.1.2    2 weeks ago
please entertain us with examples.

its called the EU 

look it up.

"we thought it was a common market and now know it is a political union."   

 
 
 
Split Personality
14.1.5  Split Personality  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @14.1.4    2 weeks ago

Nice try.  LMAO !!!

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
14.1.6  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Ender @14.1.3    2 weeks ago
How would a trade agreement turn into government?

the eu started as a trade agreement -  im sure the brits can explain it to you.

good news is we did not give hillary the chance to send us into the same type of trap the brits got caught in. 

the tpp and paris agreement are now dead as door nails = globalists lose.

 
 
 
Ender
14.1.7  Ender  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @14.1.6    2 weeks ago

I wanted you to explain it to me.

Do you actually think Hillary would have caused a Brexit? Seems that is trumps job.

Is globalist the new boogie man? If so call me one. I have traveled and all.

Is it possible to have trade and other agreements with other countries and not be global?

Or should one just become tribal and isolated.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
14.1.8  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Ender @14.1.3    2 weeks ago
I hate to break it to you but, trade is globalism.

don't worry yourself about me... you're wrong.

we have in the past and will in the future trade apples, oranges, and even cars without forming new "political unions"

this country will never have a globalist entity dictating our domestic laws to us and it seems the uk has had enough of that already.

global trade is not new... globalism is and it is dying right before our eyes.

 
 
 
Split Personality
14.1.9  Split Personality  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @14.1.6    2 weeks ago

Last I checked France elected their own government and some dufus named Marcon is their Dear Leader.

That's a government.  The EU is a massive trade agreement, a unified market place ( minus one disgruntled Britain)

The EU is not a government regardless of what our retarded British cousins currently believe.

 
 
 
Ender
14.1.10  Ender  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @14.1.8    2 weeks ago

So according to you, globalism only consists of politics.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
14.1.11  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Ender @14.1.10    2 weeks ago

when a trade agreement starts writing domestic laws in other countries?  that is a government.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
14.1.12  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Ender @14.1.7    2 weeks ago
Do you actually think Hillary would have caused a Brexit?

I never said that... LOL. but I will say this...

by enforcing the tpp and paris agreements on our country hillary would have started civil war.. and not the fun kind of civil war either.  our states will never be told what to do by any foreign entity without one hell of a fight first.

 
 
 
Ender
14.1.13  Ender  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @14.1.8    2 weeks ago

If global trade is not globalism, then what is it? A sly drop off at the border?

I know some of y'all are content to break from every pact we have ever made with the rest of the world yet believe me, a lot are not happy.

Talking about dictating, when that is exactly what one is doing, all the while ignoring reality.

"Globalism" is not some weird cult or secret society. Talk about fear mongering (to the lowest common denominator).

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
14.1.14  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Ender @14.1.13    2 weeks ago
If global trade is not globalism, then what is it?

I already answered that... move along.

 
 
 
Ender
14.1.15  Ender  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @14.1.12    2 weeks ago

Hahaha

Give me a break. So now if Hillary was elected there would have been a civil war and all hell breaking loose.

conservatives do love to threaten....

Enforcing pacts, agreements already made be damned. God forbid we abide by them.

Do you even hear yourself?

 
 
 
Ender
14.1.16  Ender  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @14.1.14    2 weeks ago
move along

Is this your seed? Did you write this? Do you have the authority to tell people when and where they can participate?

That's what I thought....

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
14.1.17  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Ender @14.1.15    2 weeks ago
Enforcing pacts agreements already made be damned.

trade agreements do not require mucking about with a countries domestic laws

note: among other things. the brits will be getting their fishing waters back.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-fishing-lawmaking/britain-to-introduce-bill-to-end-automatic-eu-fishing-rights-in-uk-waters-idUSKBN1ZS05S

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
14.1.18  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Ender @14.1.16    2 weeks ago
Is this your seed? Did you write this?

matters not one bit.

as I said, I already answered that question.

[Deleted]

[your choice.]

 
 
 
Ender
14.1.19  Ender  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @14.1.17    2 weeks ago
trade agreements do not require mucking about with a countries domestic laws

Then why can we have an agreement with China that they cannot steal technology? If their current laws do not stop it, who are we to say they can't with a trade agreement?

Why should our trade agreements have labour protections and standards for Mexico and Canada?

Is that not interfering in their domestic laws?

 
 
 
Ender
14.1.20  Ender  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @14.1.18    2 weeks ago

The choice is yours. Respond or not. Seems some can't help themselves.

You answered no question. Only that you think globalism is some kind of devious one world order.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
14.1.21  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Ender @14.1.15    2 weeks ago
conservatives do love to threaten....

there are threats and there are promises.  they are not the same things.

 our states will never be told what to do by any foreign entity without one hell of a fight first.

that? is a promise.

 
 
 
 
Ender
14.1.22  Ender  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @14.1.21    2 weeks ago

So is there a threaten to promise, or a promise to threaten...

Breaking news...trade agreements are countries telling each other what they will do.

Unless of course people want to say fuck you and break promises while threatening.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
14.1.23  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Ender @14.1.20    2 weeks ago
Only that you think globalism is some kind of devious one world order.

I never said that... LOL  stop playing with your imagination, your ears will grow hair.. LOL

You answered no question.

yes, I did.

trade agreements do not require mucking about with a countries domestic laws

note: among other things. the brits will be getting their fishing waters back.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-fishing-lawmaking/britain-to-introduce-bill-to-end-automatic-eu-fishing-rights-in-uk-waters-idUSKBN1ZS05S

and....

when a trade agreement starts writing domestic laws in other countries?  that is a government.

 I answered your question several times... you just did not like the answer

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
14.1.24  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Ender @14.1.22    2 weeks ago
trade agreements are countries telling each other what they will do.

only in regards to trade - nothing else.

it is only fairly recently that progressives started using trade agreements to involve themselves in another countries  domestic laws.

good news? those days are ending right before our eyes.

a great time to be alive :)

 
 
 
Ender
14.1.25  Ender  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @14.1.23    2 weeks ago

Let me just say I will never understand what your position is.

It seems like, how dare another country have any kind of leg up off of my back.

Not the way I work or think.

But I am going to sign off. Might sign in tomorrow.

Same bat time, same bat place.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
14.1.26  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Ender @14.1.25    2 weeks ago

Let me just say I will never understand what your position is.

[Deleted

[cheers :)]

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
15  The Magic Eight Ball    2 weeks ago

the eu lost all leverage they thought they had.

details on any further trade deals start at around 15mins

 jump to the good stuff here

https://youtu.be/e0Tg7jFSwQM?t=896

 
 
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