Mississippi's six-week abortion ban struck down
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Mississippi's controversial "fetal heartbeat" ban, an effective six-week ban on abortion, was just struck down by a federal judge, according to a spokesperson for the Center for Reproductive Rights, the law firm that challenged the state law. A three-judge panel of the Fifth District issued its decision Thursday afternoon, writing, "[A]ll agree that cardiac activity can be detected well before the fetus is viable. That dooms the law. If a ban on abortion after 15 weeks is unconstitutional, then it follows that a ban on abortion at an earlier stage of pregnancy is also unconstitutional."
Thursday's decision temporarily will block the law from going into effect, upholding a lower court's decision from May 2019. In December, the Fifth Circuit also struck down a 15-week abortion ban passed by Mississippi. "A ban at six weeks of pregnancy means many of our patients would lose their right to have an abortion before they even know they're pregnant," said Shannon Brewer, director of Jackson Women's Health Organization, the state's only abortion provider. "Most of our patients are past that point. Some have spent weeks saving money for the procedure and have driven hundreds of miles to reach us."
Mississippi is one of seven states that passed an abortion ban in 2019, all aimed at providing a legal challenge to Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court decision that legalized the procedure in 1973. Four other states — Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana and Ohio — passed their own so-called "fetal heartbeat" bills, while Missouri put forward an omnibus anti-abortion bill that includes an eight-week ban on abortion. In Alabama, Governor Kay Ivey signed into law the most restrictive anti-abortion bill of all: a near-total ban on the procedure with no exceptions for rape or incest.
All have been blocked by federal judges from going into effect.
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What is the definition of insanity again: doing the same thing but expecting different results? WTF is wrong with these states? They waste time and money to pass and defend these ridiculous anti-abortion laws which are blatantly unconstitutional. Kudos to the federal judges who block these laws. At least some people have common sense.
I think they're trying to shore up their job numbers by keeping lots of lawyers employed
At taxpayer expense.
Once again proving they want to control women and their uterus's
Once again proving a fetus is more valuable than a woman
Once again proving that if they needed the services of an abortion clinic it's all fine and dandy...don't forget the pro life scum bags that want their mistresses to have abortions.
They are delegated to a back alley.
Good!
Thank goodness. Sanity prevails.
Indeed. But it takes considerable insanity to not only pass laws like these which severely limit or outright ban abortions, but also to do so repeatedly. What does that say about the proponents and supporters of such laws?
Religious species zealots?
That's a nice way of putting it.
I'm not a fan of abortion. But, you are right. Some of the attempts that have been made...head scratchers. Scuttling their own ship with some of these.
I doubt anyone is a fan of abortion. But the more rational among us understand that abortion is a woman's right and is sometimes necessary or must always be an available option. It's also no one else's business. But these states and antiabortion supporters eit her do not understand that or do not care.
Exactly. I personally wish there would never be a need for abortion, that no women would ever be raped again, that no woman's egg would ever be fertilized by a close relative, that no woman would get pregnant during a period in their lives when having and caring for a child were virtual impossibilities. But I certainly wouldn't use my personal desire for there to be no more abortions to ban other individuals from making that decision. That would be an extremely haughty position to take, claiming my personal desires or beliefs should supersede the privacy rights of another citizen.
Just because I know that we can't realistically prevent all incest or the sadly high numbers of rape or even the women getting pregnant who aren't able to care for a child at that time of their lives, that shouldn't mean we get to just move past those very real issues and just jump to a desired world of no abortions. If someone really hates abortion they should be putting all their effort into reducing rape, incest and educating young women about contraceptives as well as giving them more access to them instead of just trying to accuse, judge and further victimize, guilt trip and even arrest women going through one of the hardest decisions in their lives or threatening and even murdering the caring doctors who dare to help them.
Exactly! Some people go on about "life" and such, but they don't seem to care about the life of the woman in question. There's almost a hypocrisy to it.
And not only that, many claim it's their God's wish to stop abortion, yet up to 50% of fertilized eggs end in miscarriage along with the fact that if some all powerful God wanted to prevent all abortions, why don't they step in and stop the high number of rapes, why not supernaturally prevent incest or make sure that no woman's egg is ever fertilized in the first place if the omniscient deity knows they have neither the means or the strength to care for a child at that moment in their lives, or put a woman in the position where giving birth may end her life due to some "unforeseen" complications. If their God is real, are there any "unforeseen" complications? Or is allowing a woman who desperately wants to have children to finally get pregnant, perhaps after spending tens of thousands on invitro-fertilization, only to end up with a fetus that is literally killing her from inside her own body, to then be denied the ability to terminate the fetus to save the woman's life really part of their Gods plan? I certainly hope there is no being out there allowing such things, or worse, causing them to happen. To point the finger at the women and doctors trying to deal rationally with these very real problems and accuse them of being evil in the name of such a God is worse than hypocrisy, it's down right despicable.
If anyone has to use god or religion, theirs is automatically a failed argument, as not everyone believes in their God (which they can't even prove exists) nor follows their religion. Not to mention laws, such as antiabortion laws or the intent behind them, cannot be based on God or religion and remain constitutionally valid. I have yet to see a rational, secular argument to limit or prohibit abortions, especially before viability.
I have no problem with people using their God or religion to inform their own decision not get an abortion, that is absolutely their right. It's just when they try and use their God or religion to control someone else's decisions that they overstep their bounds and violate the constitution.
Agreed.
Congratulations on your license to end a heartbeat. You must be so proud /s
I'll just take pride in knowing I'm intelligent enough to never need to put anyone in a position to have to exercise such a horrid "right". I'm glad I'm not the type of person who is okay with something like that on their conscious.
Don't like abortion? Then don't have one. It's that simple. But whether a woman exercises that right or not is her choice. And that's the key: CHOICE. One need not like it or agree with it. But it should always be available.
I won't because I am a responsible person.
Responsible women do get abortions...don't like it, tough.
You have no say in the matter what a woman does with an unplanned pregnancy.
And how do you know that a woman you might have been with hasn't had an abortion?
Apparently some think birth control is 100%.
That would be your choice, as it should be a choice for any woman. But choosing to have an abortion is also being responsible.
Just 99% that's all. Hardly even worth using when you can just abort it anyways right?
What difference does it make?
Sure they do. Just like all prison inmate are innocent if you ask them right? lol. Unfortunately I'm a realist. You got pregnant unplanned, you're not very responsible.
Lol nice argument. What difference does it make to end a life you started or take measures to not start a life at all. Hmm. I guess that's secularism for you
Yep, that's what most people do. Have sex then run to a clinic after eight months...
You aren't a realist. You are another male who thinks his opinion usurps women's freedoms and rights. You, one who supports Trump's misogyny. You, who defends hateful race baiting by Trump. I think not, [deleted] Keep your nose out of women's business.
Get over yourself. I dont care about you or any other womans business. I only care about the decency of the society i live in and the humane treatment of all life forms
No argument. Just simple fact. If a woman gets pregnant, regardless of the circumstances, she has the choice to continue the pregnancy or not. Plain and simple. Trying to make this about secularism or something like that is not only a sweeping generalization, but it's also an emotional response and shows how weak your "argument" is.
If all the good Christian women who ever chose to terminate a pregnancy for were arrested Saturday then church pews across America would be mostly empty on Sunday morning...
I hope you don't take antibiotics for an infection then. After all, you wouldn't want anything to happen to those "life forms," now would you?
Indeed
It's not an emotional response it's a simple observation. In a secular society people view fetuses as "not human" and use that as a means to justify ending a life. There are a couple other groups of people who used the same technique. [deleted]
what can you eat without consuming life forms?
Break a Bald or Golden Eagle egg and 5 years in jail.
If you think women are irresponsible for getting pregnant, do you think they'll be responsible parents? Besides, choosing to have an abortion is taking responsibility for an unplanned pregnancy.
Wrong, as usual.
That's a sweeping generalization. A fetus is just that, a fetus. And no one needs to justify anything to anyone for choosing abortion. That's a woman's business and no one else's. Their reasons are their own.
Eagles are an endangered species.
Life forms sure are tasty. Especially with garlic sauce, Lol
When I was climbing cell towers you couldn't disturb a birds nest to do your job. Bigger companies install little speakers that make a clapping sound on the towers to discourage them from making the towers their home. What an ounce of prevention can do eh?
I guess you will be celibate the rest of your life, eh? Unless you've had a vasectomy?
As Gordy says, eagles are an endangered species.
Humans are not...unless we continue to make war against each other
If anything, humans are overpopulated.
Condoms break, even when used by responsible people.
And pills fail too. But that proves people were being "responsible" and used BC. Unfortunately, circumstances did not go as intended. So other options to exercise "responsibility" must be available.
Do they taste like chicken?
But some, mostly white nationalists and white supremacists, believe that their "white culture" is being eroded by abortion, that it is leading to a "white genocide". It's why white supremacists have a long history of supporting the anti-abortion movement.
" T he anti-abortion movement in the United States has long been complicit with white supremacy. In recent decades, the movement mainstream has been careful to protect its public image by distancing itself from overt white nationalists in its ranks. Last year, anti-abortion leader Kristen Hatten was ousted from her position as vice president of the anti-choice group New Wave Feminists after identifying as an “ethnonationalist” and sharing white supremacist alt-right content. In 2018, when neo-Nazis from the Traditionalist Worker Party (TWP) sought to join the local March for Life rally organized by Tennessee Right to Life, the anti-abortion organization rejected TWP’s involvement."
It's pretty clear that those who hold such white nationalists views and defend them here are also supporting these unconstitutional attacks on women's rights. They often are also heard defending misogyny and push bullshit narratives about women being somehow inferior so it's no wonder they don't care about women or their rights. To many of them women are nothing but breeding stock for their fantasy rebirth of some grand "white nation, under God".
Doesn't everything? Lol
Well you have mighty large mountain to start climbing then.
The human species in general doesn't give a flying care about any life forms,
or the environment we all share,
past the nose it's face.
There's nothing decent about a society, or at least some of its members, who want to restrict.or eliminate the rights of its female members.
Do you not see the difference between having a choice and forcibly removing that choice. I fully support those states that have fetal murder laws because in those cases the murderer has removed the mothers choice
Some conservatives have a problem understanding this, but it's really quite simple. If I had a million dollar painting hanging on the wall of my home that I owned, I could take it off the wall and burn it if I wanted to, that's my choice. But if a burglar came in and stole it, he'd be guilty of felony grand theft. As far as I know, there has never been a thief to try and claim as their defense that because the owner of the home had the right to destroy his property, that means it shouldn't be illegal for them to steal it, yet that's the reasoning of conservatives who say that if fetal murder laws exist then that means abortion should also be illegal. By their logic, if laws against stealing exist, then it should also be illegal for you to burn or throw away your own stuff.
That is a very good analogy and point DP.
Shit happens in real life, you know, condoms break, the pill fails...nothing is 100% effective.
Once again, don't like abortion, don't have one. It's not YOUR medical decision, it's a woman's decision.
And again, how do you know that any woman that you have been with hasn't had an abortion...you don't...
No its really not. Because a painting is a finished product and a fetus isnt. According to you. Nice try though.
OK then a half finished painting. But it seems you missed the point.
Well at that point its not really a painting. Its just a piece of paper with a bunch of crap jumbled on it. Not much different than a piece of paper laying on the side of the rode. You can stomp on it, piss on it, who cares? Not like its a work of art till that last brush stroke its just disposable garbage
Doesn't change anything. The "owner" of the painting, even a half finished one, still makes the decision to finish the painting or not. Not anyone else!
Actually, since you're talking about 'responsible women', it's 83% since responsible people know that only a condom protects against STDs.
Yea but its not destroying a painting. Its destroying someones garbage. Doubt there are very harsh penalties for that. Slap on the wrist maybe. Doubt a cop would care if i destroyed someones open snickers wrapper. You know?
It's still not yours to destroy, steal, or whatever.
99% effective...... enough said. If you want to worry about 1% go ahead.
Emtional appeal. An infection is always hazardous to your body where a fetus rarely is. False equivalency
Now you're moving the goalposts. You're the one worrying about the "treatment of all life forms." That seems quite emotional to me. And pregnancy carries a myriad of potential health risks and complications for the woman. But worry all you want. That's your problem after all. It's still not your place or business to tell anyone what they should do regarding their choices.
The U.S. maternal mortality rate has more than doubled from 10.3 per 100,000 live births in 1991 to 23.8 in 2014. Over 700 women a year die of complications related to pregnancy each year in the United States, and two-thirds of those deaths are preventable. Fifty thousand women suffer from life-threatening complications of pregnancy. A report from the Commonwealth Fund released in December found American women have the greatest risk of dying from pregnancy complications among 11 high-income countries. What’s worse, there are massive disparities. Black women are three to four times more likely to die in childbirth than white women — regardless of education, income, or any other socio-economic factors. This is the primary reason the United States lags so far behind other affluent countries. According to the World Health Organization, black mothers in the U.S. die at the same rate as pregnant women in Mexico or Uzbekistan.
It says 2/3rds of them are preventable. Thats not the fault of the fetus its either the fault of the parents or the medical community.
Two thirds of the deaths are preventable. That is not the same as two thirds of the complications being preventable. For example, hemorrhage is a common complication. It may or may not be preventable. It can often be treated. That does not mean the danger doesn't exist.
Pregnancy has always been recognized as a dangerous time for women. Modern medicine mitigates the danger, but hasn't eliminated it. Before 1900, the average lifespan for women was shorter than for men, because of maternal mortality.
Also, there is this, from the link:
It is not rare for a fetus to be a danger to a woman's body.
And yet, some people do not care about that. They only think of a fetus as the be all end all.
Mass shootings and gun violence do the same thing, but when was the last time you saw the right wing do anything to stop it? "Selective outrage", is all it is. Trying to ban abortions has nothing to do with ending a beating heart, it has everything to do with misogynistic assholes wanting to control women. PERIOD.
Besides, a "heartbeat" is not the standard by which abortions are performed or not. I can place a cardiac cell in a petri dish, apply an electrical stimulus, and it will "beat." That doesn't mean that cell is anything more than it is.
Yep. Knowing me for as long as you have, I am reasonably sure you know my stance on the anti-abortion nutters.
Yes indeed.
Is a 'Fetal Heartbeat' Really a Heartbeat at 6 Weeks?
By Rachael Rettner May 17, 2019
So far this year, four U.S. states have passed laws banning abortions when a fetal heartbeat can be detected, at around six weeks of pregnancy; several additional states are also considering these so-called heartbeat bills.
But what exactly do we mean when we talk about a "fetal heartbeat" at six weeks of pregnancy? Although some people might picture a heart-shaped organ beating inside a fetus, this is not the case.
But the heart is far from fully formed at this stage, and the "beat" isn't audible; if doctors put a stethoscope up to a woman's belly this early on in her pregnancy, they would not hear a heartbeat, Aftab told Live Science. (What's more, it isn't until the eighth week of pregnancy that the baby is called a fetus; prior to that, it's still considered an embryo, according to the Cleveland Clinic.)
Although a lot of weight seems to be put on the detection of this flutter, "by no means does it translate to viability of the heart" or viability of the pregnancy, Aftab said.
The heart still has a lot of development to undergo before it is fully formed. Indeed, the entire first trimester of pregnancy is a time of "organogenesis," or the formation of organs, Aftab said.
After the detection of the flutter at six weeks, the heart muscle continues to develop over the next four to six weeks, undergoing the folding and bending that needs to happen for the heart to take its final shape, Aftab said.
"A lot of the heart development is still ongoing" during the first trimester, she said.
'Heart development?' So is everything else too, right? Why the big 'thing' only about the heart?
That's what I'm wondering too.
'Heart development?' So is everything else too, right? Why the big 'thing' only about the heart?
I'm assuming so - I don't know why they focus on the alleged heart beat in these new bills they've passed and are still trying to pass
I believe that some have an extremely emotional response to the idea of a "heart" that they associate with an imaginary soul, the ethereal animus that makes a human a human. That is why they see a fetal heartbeat as some sort of sign from their God, like Dr. Frankenstein pressing his ear to his creations chest, hearing the heartbeat and proclaiming "it's alive!".
The reality is that its just another organ in the process of forming and might as well be a pinky showing a certain point in fetal development. I think the closest anti-abortion activists I've spoken to have come to being any where near rational instead of purely emotional is when they start looking at actual electrical brain activity starting at about 14-16 weeks, but even that is no evidence of any "soul". If they were just pushing to reduce the time from viability at 22-24 weeks back to perhaps 16 or 18 weeks based on brain activity, I could understand compromising and accepting perhaps a ban after 20 weeks unless its from rape, incest or threatens the life of the mother, but most of these States trying to push heartbeat laws aren't trying to be rational, most are just foam at the mouth thoughtless religious zealots demanding society around them adopt their personal religious beliefs and doctrine as law.
That could very well be. Or some people are just plain emotional, which impairs their ability to think rationally. They certainly can't prove in the slightest there is a soul, which is just a silly religious concept anyway.
Still can not understand why ( some---people ) are more than willing to give the government the power to demand a woman or family bear a child they decide they can neither afford, need or want.
I can only arrive to the conclusion that the 'alleged pro life movement' has a far greater agenda and it most definitely does not concern fetuses, babies, children or adults.
"Anti-abortion" is nothing more than a smoke screen for a puritanical abstinence attitude. If they were really concerned they would be fighting just as hard to lower infant mortality rates. Mississippi has the highest infant mortality rate in the country with 8.9 infant deaths per 1000 live births according to the state's own government site for 2018.
And this state wants to force women to have more kids? Unbelievable.
They want to force women to remain pregnant against their will.
Do you think married women should say no to their husbands if they don't want anymore kids?
It's just that when a male and a female have sex they have to assume that there is the possibility of a pregnancy. Only abstinence prevents pregnancy. No birth control is 100% effective. Tho vasectomies work pretty well.
What do you mean Trout? Women are supposed to be subservient to their husbands, right? So if the husband wants sex and/or kids but the woman doesn't, we'll that's just too bad. After all, if women said no to their husbands, where would it end? Cats & dogs living together, mass hystetia. >sarc < Lol
And abstinence 100% unrealistic too. Humans are horny creatures by nature.
I just get the feeling that some men think that women have all the responsibility in preventing pregnancies but forget that women don't get pregnant by themselves. So they want us to take care of the birth control but pay for it ourselves and when the BC fails, we have to suffer the consequences because <GASP> abortion is EVIL.
Or they think that if a woman foes get pregnant, the man should have a say in whether the woman can abort or not.
Good for you. But when it comes to pregnancy, the woman has final say in the matter. She can elicit your input if she so chooses, but the decision to continue a pregnancy or not is still hers.
So most people didn't get any when they were young, is that what you're saying? Humans are generally sexual and typically want and enjoy sex. There's nothing wrong with that or a healthy sex life.
Sounds like a personal problem.
Congratulations. My desire for intimacy hasn't diminished between my youth and now.
Like I said, sounds like a personal problem
British Broadcast Corp. ?
Giggity
… Car? Cadillac? He said his power driver was out so that's got to be it...
Lol were you a chubby chaser? Sorry couldn't resist