Trump Has Given Unusual Leeway to Fauci, but Aides Say He’s Losing His Patience
Category: News & Politics
Via: sister-mary-agnes-ample-bottom • 4 years ago • 265 commentsBy: Maggie Haberman
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
President Trump has praised Dr. Anthony S. Fauci as a “major television star.” He has tried to demonstrate that the administration is giving him free rein to speak. And he has deferred to Dr. Fauci’s opinion several times at the coronavirus task force’s televised briefings.
But Dr. Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984, has grown bolder in correcting the president’s falsehoods and overly rosy statements about the spread of the coronavirus in the past two weeks — and he has become a hero to the president’s critics because of it. And now, Mr. Trump’s patience has started to wear thin.
So has the patience of some White House advisers, who see Dr. Fauci as taking shots at the president in some of his interviews with print reporters while offering extensive praise for Mr. Trump in television interviews with conservative hosts.
Mr. Trump knows that Dr. Fauci, who has advised every president since Ronald Reagan, is seen as credible with a large section of the public and with journalists, and so he has given the doctor more leeway to contradict him than he has other officials, according to multiple advisers to the president.
When Mr. Trump knows that he has more to gain than to lose by keeping an adviser, he has resisted impulses to fight back against apparent criticism, sometimes for monthslong interludes. One example was when he wanted to fire the White House counsel, Donald F. McGahn II, in 2017 and early 2018. Another was Jeff Sessions, the former attorney general. Mr. Trump eventually fired both when he felt the danger in doing so had passed.
So far, the president appears to be making the same calculation with Dr. Fauci, who was not on the briefing room podium on Monday evening. When asked why, Mr. Trump said he had just been with Dr. Fauci for “a long time” at a task force meeting. Officials, asked about the doctor’s absence, repeated that they were rotating officials who appear at the briefings.
“He’s a good man,” Mr. Trump said. Dr. Fauci was scheduled to be on Fox News with Sean Hannity a short time later.
Still, the president has resisted portraying the virus as the kind of threat described by Dr. Fauci and other public health experts. In his effort to create a positive vision of a future where the virus is less of a danger, critics have accused Mr. Trump of giving false hope.
Dr. Fauci and the president have publicly disagreed on how long it will take for a coronavirus vaccine to become available and whether an anti-malaria drug, chloroquine, could help those with an acute form of the virus. Dr. Fauci has made clear that he does not think the drug necessarily holds the potential that Mr. Trump says it does.
In an interview with Science Magazine, Dr. Fauci responded to a question about how he had managed to not get fired by saying that, to Mr. Trump’s “credit, even though we disagree on some things, he listens. He goes his own way. He has his own style. But on substantive issues, he does listen to what I say.”
But Dr. Fauci also said there was a limit to what he could do when Mr. Trump made false statements, as he often does during the briefings.
“I can’t jump in front of the microphone and push him down,” Dr. Fauci said. “OK, he said it. Let’s try and get it corrected for the next time.”
In an interview with CBS’s “Face the Nation” on Sunday, Dr. Fauci played down the idea that there was a divide between him and the president. “There isn’t fundamentally a difference there,” he said.
“The president has heard, as we all have heard, what are what I call anecdotal reports that certain drugs work. So what he was trying to do and express was the hope that if they might work, let’s try and push their usage,” Dr. Fauci said. “I, on the other side, have said I’m not disagreeing with the fact anecdotally they might work, but my job is to prove definitively from a scientific standpoint that they do work. So I was taking a purely medical, scientific standpoint, and the president was trying to bring hope to the people.”
A White House spokesman and Dr. Fauci did not respond to requests for comment.
Dr. Fauci came to his current role as the AIDS epidemic was exploding and President Reagan was paying it little attention. He and C. Everett Koop, the surgeon general, were widely credited with spurring the Reagan administration to action against AIDS, a fact that underscores Dr. Fauci’s ability to negotiate difficult politics.
He has recognized Mr. Trump’s need for praise; in the president’s presence and with audiences that are friendly to him, Dr. Fauci has been complimentary. He told the radio host Mark Levin on Fox News of the administration’s response to the virus: “I can’t imagine that under any circumstances that anybody could be doing more.”
And Dr. Fauci is savvy not just about the inner workings of the government but about the news media that covers it.
When Vice President Mike Pence took over as the lead of the coronavirus task force, his advisers wanted to put a 24-hour pause on interviews that administration officials were giving as they assessed where the administration was after a chaotic few weeks. They were initially fine with Dr. Fauci’s appearances, meeting with him before interviews to get a sense of what he planned to say.
But in the past two weeks, as Dr. Fauci’s interviews have increased in frequency, White House officials have become more concerned that he is criticizing the president.
Officials asked him about the viral moment in the White House briefing room, when he put his hand to his face and appeared to suppress a chuckle after Mr. Trump referred to the State Department as the “Deep State Department.” Dr. Fauci had a benign explanation: He had a scratchy throat and a lozenge he had in his mouth had gotten stuck in his throat, which he tried to mask from reporters.
Some officials have not questioned that Dr. Fauci is giving interviews, but they have wondered how he has so much time for so many requests from the news media.
Dr. Fauci, for his part, has been dismissive of some questions about whether he was at odds with the president, treating it as a news media obsession.
“I think there’s this issue of trying to separate the two of us,” he said on CBS.
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And he would be 100% correct on that.
Those who prefer to tell the truth always end up...disappearing...from Trump's world. May I assume that you would rather not hear the truth about such an important topic?
Yes i do prefer the truth. The real truth.
Not a biased, misrepresented, deranged persons version of what they think "the truth" is.
No thanks to those folks bullshit versions of "the truth."
Are you saying that there has been no truth in Dr. Fauci's comments?
Not sure how you would get that. My quote of his was pretty clear.
Are you saying there has been no truth in President Trumps comments?
Not to be rude, but does a fucking bear shit in the fucking woods?
That is rude but no worries. I don't mind rude like some china dolls here do ..... oh sorry .... can i say that anymore? /S
So to clarify, are you saying you think Trump never tells the truth?
Trump has repeatedly demonstrated his preference to be economical with the truth. Some lies are fairly harmless. Some, especially related to the issue at hand, have proven detrimental to the lives of others. Dr. Fauci is an expert in infectious diseases. Wouldn't you rather he tell the truth as opposed to standing behind Trump nodding in agreement to every utterance?
Look, I am being forced to stay in just to stay alive. Although there have been times that I have considered stopping cancer treatment, that's not the case at the moment. I guess I am saying that I would rather it be my idea to just go ahead and die, and not Donald Trump's. By not supporting, or even listening to his chosen expert, Trump is letting his arrogance decide who lives or dies.
I feel the same way!
Which is why, when it comes to medical matters, I take what Dr. Fauci says very seriously-- rather than the opinion of dear leader. (Some may disagree, but IMO Trump's experience and knowledge of the NY Real Estate market in no way is a reason to believe he has any expertise in the area of medicine.
And, likewise, if Dr, Fauci would suddenly start pontificating on the nuances of the NY Real Estate market...well, let's just say I would pay him no heed.
Trump says whatever he wants. Sometimes its true. More often its a lie. When you lie about the most innocuous things, you won't be believed even when its true.
Ditto, BTW for the opinions of Dear Leader on military matters-- after all, experience in Real Estate hardly qualifies Trump as a military expert! For that, I would defer to the really brilliant mind (and years of excellent leadership) of General Mattis.
And-- when the conversation turns to real Estate-- I would tend to give more weight to Dear leader's experience in the field-- than to the opinions of a man whose career was in the military and not real estate.
SMAAB - explain this comment to me please. Haven't really seen any "detrimental to the lives of others" coming about with any of Trump's comments.
"Some, especially related to the issue at hand, have proven detrimental to the lives of others."
How has it been detrimental - have folks died?
And-- when the conversation turns to real Estate-- I would tend to give more weight to Dear leader's experience in the field-- than to the opinions of a man whose career was in the military and not real estate.
Well, on second thought-- that might be a mistake. After all, there is that little matter of Trump's bankrupting of some of his businesses...
Examining Donald Trump’s Chapter 11 Bankruptcies
Donald Trump, the current frontrunner for the Republican presidential nomination, as come under fire from both the media and the other candidates for his business record.
Although Trump has never filed for personal bankruptcy, he has reportedly filed for business bankruptcy at least four times.
So, you have an issue with Trump trying to buoy people up during these times??
"So I was taking a purely medical, scientific standpoint, and the president was trying to bring hope to the people.”
Believe me, this ain't like the "Hope and Change" BS we lived through for 8 years. This is happening RIGHT NOW and the President is trying to calm all of us down.
And you have issues with that?
Now granted...trmp didn't tell them to take the drug but you know people follow every word that falls out of trmp's mouth. They think he spews the friggin' gospel so they do stupid stuff.
This is the problem right here. Biased contextual inventions that simply are not true.
He clearly trusts and supports Dr Fauci and has said so on many more numerous occasions then when perhaps his reactions could be taken that he doesn't. So the supposition that he doesn't trust his chosen expert over things like a biased perception of a "faceplam" is simply just more rampant TDS. Nothing more, nothing less.
You've done everything but directly admit that you don't think Trump ever tells the truth and that tells me everything i need to know about your state of mind in that regard.
That said, you have my best on your cancer treatment. I'll say a prayer for you and yours
I disagree. No matter how many "resist" movement approved " Trump lies" you put up here.
Most of these "lies" are complete contextual fabrications intended to discredit him over the fact that he had the temerity to simply beat the lefts chosen one in 2016. And now many are still choosing to fight Trump in this manner over helping their fellow Americans. Sad, very sad.
This will not end well for folks who choose that path. Not in the least.
No he didn't, but the news media, with its very nebulous reporting, stated - not hinted, but stated, that the malaria antidote contained chloroquine phosphate which "appeared" to help against the virus. Hell, I've heard people in our neck of the woods (NM) start asking bout where they could get hold of some of the drug ingredients because "they read in the papers that". . . . . Didn't have a thing to do with the President.
Now, show me and the others just where in that link does the President "advocated" for the drug. Sure, he has advocated for FURTHER TESTING, but he did not/has not advocated taking it.
How many people do you know hear one phrase or one word by somebody they worship and then go off half-cocked and do something they think they were told to do but it wasn't?
I'm married to a man who hears one thing....it goes in the brain...does a complete 180...and when it comes back out of his mouth it's the total opposite of what he was told. I know several people like that and I'm predicting that these are those kind of people.
Depends.
If Dear Leader says a Bear doesn't shit in the woods-- then a Bear does not sh*t in the woods!
(To say otherwise means that you are a "Socialist"!!!).
And worse-- if you question Dear Leader's expertise on any matter-- then you have a severe cash of "Trump Derangement Syndrome" and are always wrong!
Wrong..Bad and Wrong!
Yep, just more contextual manipulation intended to simply discredit Trump.
If that nonsense won't stop during a crisis like this, it never will.
Sad!
More TDS ...... what a waste .....
Yes.
588 people.
So far... the number will probably increase...rather rapidly...
Well Trump isn't the only one with "Truth Derangement Syndrome"-- a lot of Dear Leader's supporters seem to be quite upset with the truth as well!
Yawn ..... more attempted contextual fabrications .... that shtick is getting old, very old ......
Sad indeed. Sad that republicans wanted to give the corporations a slush fund overseen by Trump, the man who bankrupts his own companies more than once. With NO OVERSIGHT AND NO TRANSPARENCY. Workers FIRST. Small business and medical necessities FIRST. Why are you so intent on our tax dollars going to corporate welfare. Thought you didn't like socialism.
I see, this corporate bail out bad but last bail out good. Right?
That said, the Schumer and Pelosi blackmail list of pork is disgusting as hell and when the dust settles on this thing it more or less assures a second term for Trump, keeping the Senate and a flipped house. Not good i agree but Dems will be reaping what they sow if all that liberal pork stays in there.
The TDS driven whining then will be epic, even by todays standards and i'll be laughing my ass off long time at it.
I don't but i like anarchy even less. Like i said, its a shame some people here are using this crisis as an excuse to push a political narrative. Very sad, sad indeed.
no, but he could try sticking his foot out when trumpski steps towards the mic...
He knew for weeks, 1st. That's a long time to know something catastrophic is coming, or even might be coming. He said nothing, and when he decided to speak on it, he down-played it.
If you think he has been the best Prez ever, that's fine. There is no sense trying to change your mind.
Much like Trump denying the reality of anthropogenic global warming.
Another misrepresentation of what he’s actually said.
Show me where he specifically said he doesn’t believe in global warming/climate change or whatever the kids are calling it these days.
Like me he just doesn’t believe when the hucksters say we are doomed in 12 years if the USA doesn’t get rid of all fossil fueled trains, planes and automobiles.
His lies are documented and most of the time we hear them in real time, because he makes sure they are public. Nothing to do with 'resist'. WFT is that about? And spare me the whining about Trump getting called out on his alternative reality where he is doing well. No, he's not. I've posted things and so have others, and frankly they happen every day so you don't have to wait. He has totally fucked this pandemic from before it started til today. He doesn't even CARE about the health of Americans judging by his focus on the economy and corporate bail outs (that he wanted to oversee, lol). By next week even Trumpers won't be able to deny what is happening as hospitals are overwhelmed and more people die. We are Italy on the way UP.
Too funny! (especially when envisioned in slo-mo)
A face plant by Trump would be far funnier than a face palm by Fauci. And most of the people in attendance could have a hard time keeping a straight face to hide their chuckles.
I doubt if most people there have TDS, You have to act like a grown up usually to have a position like that. unless of course you work for CNN.
I'm pretty sure he would break a hip if he did a face plant. He's not the most active of presidents
bummer. on the plus side, it would get him off the golf course and keep him at work.
But do you really want him at work?
wtf is POS/POTUS doing in the same room with them then?
kellyanne performs the only real job in the west wing
I don't know about that..... seems like Pence gives Trump a BJ every time he steps up to the podium....
they both blow, along with the entire administration in my oh so humble opine.
true that. makes one wonder what his real hair color was.
Coffee
I pray that never happens, as that would mean he would take up a hospital bed that is needed more by those with C-19. And people at the WH would likely say that a Trump broken hip is just a hoax started by the Dems. And have a temp hospital and forklift moved into the Wh to tend to him.
They can always put a hospital bed in the Oval Office
I agree. That way he can claim that while he was bed ridden he was still on the job. /s
Honestly, based on the looks he gets from Melania, I'm not sure he is getting bed ridden at all..... (-:
It’s called TDS!
yea, but how do you
spell it...?
snicker snort
TEE DEE ESS
Yes.
Many...and the number is increasing as we speak!
And if you are unaware of that, I highly recommend you watch this video:
This is that infamous New York Times story. The leftist media does this with everyone Trump appoints - they try to get them to contradict the President. Dr. Fauci is highly respected, so therefore if the devious Times can find a way to cause a split, they will surely try. Dr Fauci only has the nation's health to worry about. He wants to be certain a general lock-down is decisive in order to blunt (this) the spike time of the virus. The President, on the other hand, not only has the nation's health to be concerned with, but also the economy, which, because of the virus, is destined to go from prosperity to recession to maybe even a depression! So yes, both men may think a little differently on how long the lock-down period should be. The left wing media wants a lockdown to extend from now until November with all the economic consequences.
Here's the part nobody seems to get - despite the impressive credentials of the medical team comprising the President's task force or the opinions of Governors or the diminished influence of an adversarial media - only one man gets to make the decision!
And a lot of people will never accept what he says no matter what says.
Which is pretty damn sad. They don’t like the man, I get it but it’s high time to stop with the hissy fits and get with the program.
The exuberance they show when they think he’s done something wrong is FUBAR in most cases.
Sad
Victor David Hanson has called him the tragic hero, comparing him to Gen Patton - as someone who is desperately needed to win a war, but is not liked. After he is gone, he will depart the spotlight and the only credit he will get will come from future historians.
The exuberance they show when they think he’s done something wrong is FUBAR in most cases.
Gee, for a minute there I thought I was attempting to save private Ryan.
Sad
In a classic sense.
Anyone who served knows what FUBAR is ..... some more than others unfortunately.
That is not true. Dr. Fauci is concerned about flatten the curve. Right now NY is the epicenter of this and it we will be peaking right about when we are supposed to be opening up for business. Tell me, how well will it serve the American public if we all go out and do business with tens of thousands NYers as carriers going across the nation? Dr. Fauci wants to wait to see us peak to see if we have flattened the curve. That will take a little more time. Tell me how electable you think he will be once this disease goes across America and people start to die in droves? We have neither the health care set up or the supplies needed. Don't you think we should wait for that?
Or do scenes in Italy don't scare the bejesus out of you?
I just had MSNBC on and the host, Nicole Wallace, (the woman who sabotaged Palin), indicated that the shut down needed to go on for weeks and that Trump has used Easter as a firm timeline - that is whats not true!
Right now NY is the epicenter of this and it we will be peaking right about when we are supposed to be opening up for business.
When is NY supposed to be opening for business and who designated an opening date?
Tell me, how well will it serve the American public if we all go out and do business with tens of thousands NYers as carriers going across the nation?
Obviously, that would be a disaster!
Dr. Fauci wants to wait to see us peak to see if we have flattened the curve.
True! He also said he is considering opening up certain regions. He is an expert, but remember, he is only concerned about the health of the nation. The economy is a different matter.
Tell me how electable you think he will be once this disease goes across America and people start to die in droves?
Well, Trump won't be getting 60% approval of his handling of the virus anymore!
We have neither the health care set up or the supplies needed. Don't you think we should wait for that?
Of course, but you do know we don't have 30,000 ventilators ready to go to NY? What about the Malaria drug that New York was allowed to use beginning today? Have you heard anything on that?
Or do scenes in Italy don't scare the bejesus out of you?
Italy, like most/all of Europe left their door wide open. They also have a lot of business involving Chinese travel in northern Italy. They got hit real hard. The bottom line is that we don't put this behind us until we have a vaccine. Short of that we must, as you mentioned, flatten that curve and get the country working again.
When the number of cases stop climbing exponentially and the supplies needed match the need. We are nowhere near that. One we can't control, the timing of the number of cases. The other we can, and should be doing priority one.
Viruses know no borders. Do you think that this can't spread to there the N. East, and the N Pacific states have it? How did the Spanish flu manage to cross the entire US?
OK explain to me how this isn't like the flu. Then we can have a discussion. And please check out what Italy and Spain look like right now. That could be us.
You post common sense, I'm sorry to say, others post malarkey and swear by it just because trump says so
Vic I'm going to answer you but I feel like I am being tag teamed now.
What is the truth? It keeps changing.
NY will open when the president says the quarantine period is over. The reason: We are the US's economy.
I trust Dr. Fouci's opinion in these matters. If he feels that parts of the country can reopen, then they should be. He understands best how this particular virus works.
OK well that is the one factor we can do something about. There are more ventilators in the national stockpile that we are not getting. And I'm fine with trying anything and so is our Governer, who says he is waiting on the meds.
Think of America like 50 European countries, which really they are. Then we have open borders, which we do. So no worries of it coming in from elsewhere.. it's here right now.
Apparently not because you spew all the right wing talking points.
The truth is the President would like to open things up around Easter. According to Dr Fauci - anything the good doctor has asked the President to do, he has done. If we are not ready, we won't open. There is no need for the media to try and pit the President against Anthony Fauci.
NY will open when the president says the quarantine period is over.
And obviously the President has not set a date.
I trust Dr. Fouci's opinion in these matters. If he feels that parts of the country can reopen, then they should be. He understands best how this particular virus works.
I think most Americans respect and trust him (a credit to his heritage). He has made all the calls. The day he stands on the stage alone the media will cry out where is the President? He needs to lead! It's a no win game for the President.
so is our Governer, who says he is waiting on the meds.
Those meds may just have a huge part to play in all of this. NY is the state that got em! (rightly so).
So no worries of it coming in from elsewhere.. it's here right now.
Had the Chinese government been honest and grounded all flights we all wouldn't be going through this now. We must acknowledge that fact and we will need to deal with them at some point in the future.
Gov Cuomo's assessment today:
He called Peter Navarro out by name - Navarro is the man who got him 4,000 ventilators and is now expected to wave a magic wand. Business is cooperating. Four makeshift hospitals are being built in NY. We all understand the stress many are under, but everything that can be done is being done.
Dr Birx is concerned that those who are leaving NYC are undermining the lock down and spreading the virus.
Wow, that is really not only nasty, but what are you missing? Here let me help you. First of all, on your purely selfish angle, we are the economic hub of this country. Wall St resides here. But let's put that aside. Let's look at the current spread:
Texas has presently, 955 cases. Less than 3 weeks ago, we had less.
Let's talk in 3 weeks time when Texas has some time to cook those 955 cases.
My escape. LOL. I wanted to know how much you know about this virus, because I pretty sure I know the difference and you don't and the difference is huge.
Because you can't.
Excuse me, but are you trying to dictate to me? Should I reply "I won't play?" But I will answer if for no other reason than to inform. Covid19 hasn't killed more globally yet, because the medical community is taking every possible means to stop a pandemic. Once a pandemic is out, the game is over. Right now, this disease is killing at a rate of 2% while the flu kills at .1%. Do the math. The US has 331 million people. What is 2% of that?
Let's hope you are right Vic.
This is not political for me Vic. But if there is a massive mess up it will be very political.
I totally agree.
Let's hope so Vic. I don't want to be right about the worst outcome and staying home day after day is a total drag and killing my business as well, so I get it from both angles.
They are and they are being selfish.
Thanks Lady.
If its course were not mitigated, every person in the US would get the virus. Not all at once, but everyone would get it with in a year or something like that. With a 1 percent fatality rate, that is roughly 3,500,000 people dead from this virus. All of the dead in all of America's wars put together don't equal 3 1/2 million.
We don't know how many people are carrying this disease and transmitting it without knowing that they are doing so. Widespread testing should give the "experts" a better idea.
Because the incubation period for this virus is so long (could be 14 days) someone could pick it up in Florida, go back to Tennesee, and give it to 3 or 4 people, who 10 days later give it to someone who then went to New Mexico, Missouri, etc etc. and on and on. Or to people in Nashville who have no idea they have been in contact with someone who is a carrier and so they , in the course of their daily activities, infect 3 more people.
You want to restart America in say , Oklahoma City. In order to safely do that you have to know how many people in Oklahoma City are carrying the virus, and you have to prevent outsiders from coming into Oklahoma City who might be carrying. Has Oklahoma City had the necessary level of testing?
The first case of coronavirus in the US was appx two months ago.
That is not enough time to know that the disease is on a downward trajection instead of an upward one.
Wuhan China was just cleared, after their draconian measures and almost four months after the virus began.
Trump should be talking about stopping the virus. When the virus is stopped and the cases are going down, then they can begin to discuss "opening up" the country.
Every other country is in the same boat.
Perrie has a scientific mind. She understands the virus and how it spreads, and knows the need for a systematic approach.
All Trump has rattling around in his noggin are impulses and desires for self-gratification.
I wish Perrie were president instead of Trump, and of course, I am not joking.
the skin on trump's face is looking bad, blotchy and patchy and irritated looking. he doesnt look healthy
I totally agree with all that he said. Especially, not making life or death decisions that will affect millions of Americans. And among those millions could be his own family members. But, I guess when they are lying on their hospital beds he will tell them it is just a Democrats hoaxs.
Yeah, like you “spew” anything but left wing talking points.
Judge not lest ye be judged.
I posted the exact language (THE TRUTH) that trump spewed forth, how is that posting left wing talking points.
I prefer to be jury and executioner, so judge all the FUCK U WANT
Trump and GOP supporters and defenders at this point, are just Egyptian, plain and simple at this point.
Hieroglyphics and D Nile are NO WAY for AMERICA
to function, or, at this point, NOT Function.
I don't think you are as ignorant as your posts sometimes point,
but, your response,
can be inferred by all that read it.
When you and so many others allow this clowns OWN self interests, as that is ALL HE HAS, to allow the impending DEATHS of potentially tens of THOUSANDS of our fellow AMERICANS TO DIE,
i'm sorry,
can't take you guys seriously.
hope you and all of yours, stay healthy, but for 'Gods' sake,
.
wake the FUCK UP ALREADY !
You’ve clearly massaged what he said to fit your preferred left wing narrative. Disingenuous as hell.
That said, I’ve never seen you push anything but left leaning talking points here which was the point of my comment
Lol .... lectures from the loony left .... hilarious!
They can't wake up. They are "all in".
Been hyper-awake since November of 2016. It can’t be helped with the constant whining coming from all the TDS infected looners on the left.
Always a constant drone, sometime a very high pitched whine. No one can sleep through hissy fits like that.
No, I posted WORD FOR WORD what crooked donnie said...sorry it doesn't fit your right wing propaganda talking points....you know that thing called the TRUTH...something the right severely lacks
Whenever I see TDS in a sentence , I know it is not a serious comment.
The problems with Trump are not explained by a stupid acronym. He is a KNOWN liar, crook, bigot, moron and cheat. KNOWN.
Putting him in the presidency was pure insanity. I will at this point allow that many people who voted for him meant well, but his behavior as president has been more abominable than almost anyone could have predicted.
Now people want to go through four more years of this chaos. It is absurd.
Whenever I see TDS denial in a comment, I KNOW it’s not a comment to be taken seriously.
I never said you didn’t. Again, your interpretation of what he said is grossly off base and likely intentionally disingenuous.
Sad, sad, sad!
sorta like a comment by a we the people group.
snappy comeback !
Nah, not for most. That would only be for the TDS ridden.
Thank you! That is really high praise coming from you .....
What program?
Are you getting sick and tired of people comparing COVID-19 to the flu yet?
I know I am
Some people's willful ignorance is incurable. That s why I am not in here often ... I want to say rude things to idiots.
fire away, i'm hear four ewe
Go for it. I won't judge you
uh, no. it was all the stupid that fell out of the hole under sarah's nose that did that.
the same people believing that nonsense should take POS/POTUS's recent advice about filling the church pews on easter sunday.
These days... it should be allowed.
Ms. Wallace tried to contain the stupid but it was like a baby with a bad case of diarrhea...the diaper overloaded and exploded
Anything more productive than sophomoric hissy fits
Yeah, let’s turn it into a sophomoric name calling shit-show like a previous site that is now defunct was.
Great advice John.
If I can't be sophomoric I can't be me
Lol ..... hey you asked. 😉
Well, finally trump's handler's got through to him-- and he's seems to be talking a little common sense-- at least for now. (Although with Trump he's liable to change his mind at the drop of a hat-- and deny he ever said what he said!)
Trump’s Easter Restart Undone by His Experts’ Dire Virus Models
Which is exactly what he said he would do from the start; listen to his experts. But of course nobody listened to the full video of the press conference where he said he "hoped" we could relax some areas by Easter. He qualified that later in the same conference and agreed with Fauci's take on that, and that he would listen to his experts as they examined all the most recent data. That is the problem with those who focus on a single sentence or paragraph in a speech and don't take in the entire context.
Best facepalm ever.
...but you're not calling him for needlessly touching his face.
After listening to Trump, it was fully needed.
It was such a fabulous gesture, why would I? It wasn't as if he was picking his nose or cleaning his teeth with his pinky nail. Prior to the facepalm, he would cross his arms when Trump would start lying about one thing or another. The higher the frustration level, the higher the arm-cross.
Just think, if Dr. Fauci was a member of Kim Jong Un's Coronavirus task force and exhibited an arm-cross or facepalm, he would be dead by now.
Trump shoulda told us …… DOOM is here, and we are ALL Dead !
[ Deleted ]
"NY Gov. Cuomo says people should not panic over coronavirus despite state of emergency"
If you're trying to derail the conversation...surely you can do better than that!
What a brilliant comment!
Absolutely brilliant!
heck, I would vote it up 100 times if I could!
[Deleted]
I figured you'd be looking for that.
His …."Everything will be Okay"....just gets your goat !
Trump should have told us the truth. Nothing more, nothing less.
None, none, and none.
I asked about …… YOU !
And I answered you. Answer is only 4 words and 3 punctuation marks. Can't make it any simpler.
Take steps to protect yourself
Clean your hands often
I can't believe you found six darwinians to like stupid.
Make that 10 Darwinians.
Great video. The idiot was so proud of being for Trump.
Kind of makes you fear about the future of this country with some of those idiots...
Dr. Fauci admitted during Congressional hearings that the CDC (and Federal health bureaucracy) failed to be adequately prepared for the SARS pandemic. The bureaucratic medical experts are fallible. As usual, when the bureaucracy screws up in a highly visible manner they try to cover their backsides with a feet dragging tactic to demonstrate caution and avoid exacerbating the bad PR from their original screw up.. The Federal health bureaucracy screwed the pooch which damaged their credibility. Dr. Fauci's political tactics is as much about protecting the bureaucracy as it is about protecting the public.
Aralen (chloroquine phosphate) is an FDA approved and CDC recommended medication for preventing and treating malaria. Aralen is not an experimental drug; Aralen has gone through the regulatory requirements of obtaining FDA approval. If, as Dr. Fauci claims, the use of Aralen needs study then why did the drug receive FDA approval? If Aralen cannot be administered safely then Aralen should lose it's FDA approval. Dr. Fauci is only attempting to politically cover the bureaucracy's backside.
Yes, malaria is a different type of disease caused by a completely different type of parasitic organism. Is Dr. Fauci questioning the safety of administering Aralen as a treatment for malaria? Either the drug is safe or the drug is not safe. Which is it?
We don't have time to sweep the bureaucracy's screw ups under the rug. The health bureaucracy had 15 years to prepare for a SARS pandemic and now, during the pandemic, Dr. Fauci calls for clinical trials of an FDA approved medication? I thought clinical trials were required before a medication received FDA approval to determine safety of the drug.
Dr. Fauci claims to be guided by the science and data. Well, where is the science and data that allowed FDA approval of Aralen? Why is Dr. Fauci dragging his feet?
I know that this may be difficult for you to accept-- but did you ever consider the possibility that perhaps Dr, Fauci perhaps knows more about this subject than you do?
Dr. Fauci is also a part of the bureaucracy that operates in a political environment. Non-partisan isn't the same thing as non-political. Dr. Fauci is playing both medical expertise and political expertise to the middle.
Dr. Fauci's expertise is narrow and limited. Dr. Fauci has demonstrated lack of expertise in logistical planning, empirical application and implementation, innovation and problem solving, social implications of the pandemic, and economics. Dr. Fauci may be very good at what he does. But Dr. Fauci has shown that he lacks broad knowledge necessary for managing a crisis.
Dr. Fauci is displaying faith in a playbook that has proven itself inadequate. COVID-19 isn't following Dr. Fauci's playbook.
China and South Korea has been conducting field trials of anti-malarial drugs against COVID-19 for over a month. Maybe Dr. Fauci doesn't know as much as we have been led to believe.
South Korea experts recommend anti-HIV, anti-malaria drugs for COVID-19 - UPI
Bullshit... the virus is a textbook virus. If you knew anything abut epidemiology, you would know that they are tough little bastards that take grinding work to unlock.
More than half the people here could not explain the difference between a virus and bacteria, but less know how they behave. And yet we have a pile of experts. It's mindboggling to me.
Well let's spank that one and put it to bed without dinner right now.
In 1968, Fauci joined the National Institutes of Health as a clinical associate in the Laboratory of Clinical Investigation (LCI) at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. In 1974, he became Head of the Clinical Physiology Section, LCI, and in 1980 was appointed Chief of the Laboratory of Immunoregulation. In 1984, he became Director of NIAID, a position which he was still holding in 2020. In that role he has the responsibility for an extensive research portfolio of basic and applied research on infectious and immune-mediated illnesses. He has turned down several offers to lead his agency’s parent, the NIH, and has been at the forefront of US efforts to contend with viral diseases like HIV, SARS, the 2009 swine flu pandemic, MERS, Ebola and the new coronavirus, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2).
He played a significant role in the early 2000s in creating the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief and in driving development of biodefense drugs and vaccines following the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
Fauci has made important scientific observations that contributed to the understanding of regulation of the human immune response, and is recognized for delineating the mechanisms whereby immunosuppressive agents adapt to that response. He developed therapies for formerly fatal diseases such as polyarteritis nodosa, granulomatosis with polyangiitis, and lymphomatoid granulomatosis. In a 1985 Stanford University Arthritis Center Survey of the American Rheumatism Association, membership ranked Fauci's work on the treatment of polyarteritis nodosa and granulomatosis with polyangiitis as one of the most important advances in patient management in rheumatology over the previous 20 years.
Fauci has contributed to the understanding of how HIV destroys the body's defenses leading to the progression to AIDS. He has outlined the mechanisms of induction of HIV expression by endogenous cytokines.
Fauci has worked to develop strategies for the therapy and immune reconstitution of patients with the disease, as well as for a vaccine to prevent HIV infection. His current research is concentrated on identifying the nature of the immunopathogenic mechanisms of HIV infection and the scope of the body's immune responses to HIV.
In 2003, the Institute for Scientific Information stated that from 1983 to 2002, "Fauci was the 13th most-cited scientist among the 2.5 to 3 million authors in all disciplines throughout the world who published articles in scientific journals". Source
But it's not a textbook SARS outbreak. This isn't the first SARS outbreak; that happened in 2003. Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) is caused by coronavirus that is transmitted from animals to humans. SARS has been researched by the international medical community for 15 years.
An important tool of epidemiology is statistics. The techniques are similar to polling. Epidemiologists utilize a larger sample size than polling to increase the confidence level but the statistical techniques are the same. The virus, itself, is not important for monitoring the spread and scope of an epidemic.
Virology addresses the medical effects of viruses and treatments for viral disease. Expertise in virology does not translate to expertise in epidemiology. A virologist can advise on methods of avoiding infection and treating infection but that isn't the type of expertise needed to monitor and control spread of an epidemic.
I used to know.....
I spent a few minutes over on Breitbart on the topic Perrie. The amount of venomous ignorance there is astounding.
It just feeds on itself. What's worse is that I think it is willful ignorance for many there. How do we solve what ails our nation when so many ignore data and truth?
Good question since education is looked down upon these days....
Just stop..... You're talking like everything is compartmentalize between virologists and epidemiology, when both fields clearly overlap. What you suggest is akin to electrical and mechanical engineers not having interchangeable information even though both fields have their foundation in physics and mathematics.
But this IS A NEW SARS VIRUS. We have not seen this virus before, no one has experienced it before, we have not been able to study this before. This virus is SARS-Cov-2. Amazingly enough, evolution is real. Bacteria and virus', like all other life, mutate and evolve. That is why we have new flu outbreaks every single year even though we had a flu outbreak the year before. Because it is a different virus. It may fall into the same family and be similar, but it is a different virus. That is why we have new flu vaccines every single year, because that mother fucker evolves.
This current coronavirus is a member of a family of 7 viruses, 6 of them we knew about. This one is new, thus it cannot be treated like all the others.
It is safe when used as prescribed to treat parasites and amebas. the same as any other FDA approved drug that is used as designed.
It doesn't make sense in use against a virus, but anti HIV drugs do make sense.
I don't believe it is being looked at as a cure, or to eradicate, the virus, but rather to treat the symptoms which are actually what kill the patient eventually. Will be interesting to see how some similar treatments being tried in South Korea and France might work out there, and perhaps be tried here. Fish has seeded a pretty good article on that HERE .
I "heard on the news" that China tried it. 15 people got it. 15 people did not.
All 30 survived, but all of the hydroxychloroquine recipients got sicker and took longer to test negative.
Just anecdotal stuff from an unreliable country.
here's something
Good info SP - Thanks!
[Deleted] You are trying to bad mouth a lifelong healthcare professional to make a lifelong hack/con artist look better. During a pandemic, [Deleted]
Where did I mention Trump? The facts are the facts. Just because there is a political desire to claim Dr. Fauci is some sort of superhero doesn't alter reality.
Dr. Fauci was the Federal official responsible for preparing the United States for a pandemic. How'd that work out?
He runs the NIH. They study the stuff.
The Pandemic team used to be part of the NSC and Trump & Bolton decided that they were a cost cutting opportunity back in the day....
To blame Fauci for trump's shortcomings is fruitless.
Really? Is that all you have? Although I don't agree entirely with Nerm's view on Dr; Fauci, he does make some decent points. Perhaps if you turned down the Trump fantasy porn you got going on there you might be able to hear the message and respond with a coherent rebuttal?
In all fairness Norm, he wasn't the ONLY federal official supposedly preparing for a pandemic, and certainly not the only one who was responsible for it. There are other agencies under the HHS more responsible than his such as the CDC/OPLAN, OGHA, OGC, ASH, OPHEP, etc. His is just a sub-agency under the NIH. And perhaps that is part of the problem.
Two things.
I have answered this to you already, that when a department of the NSC or the military is eliminated, their records and plans are either stored here
in some government warehouse in Area 51
or the plans were shredded before heading to the Fort Totten Transfer Station where DC waste is recycled.
Secondly Nerm_L also gave you an intelligent answer the last time you asked the same question; that the Fed, the NSC in particular, in disbanding the pandemic team, kicked the problem back to the states and expected the individual states to create their own stockpiles.
In all seriousness, here is a good article on the 69 page playbook created by the Obama Administration.
The culprit is not unique to the Trump Administration.
Hubris and disdain for the previous Administration isn't uncommon in a new Administration.
But it is rare to last three years and not even show a passing interest in the playbook and plans...
Crap! Sorry Nerm! I had it in my head too, "Don't call him Norm, don't call him Norm." And what do I do? Sorry man.
Yes, that's true. Dr. Anthony Fauci is only the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (since 1984).
Note that the NIAID is responsible for providing the research to diagnosis, treat, and prevent emerging and re-emerging infectious diseases and infectious diseases used as a bioweapon. Since the first coronavirus epidemic spread an emerging disease to 26 countries in 2003, the NIAID has had 15 years, under Dr. Fauci's direction, to perform the research to prepare vaccines and treatments. So what happened?
What happened is that this is a completely new strain, and only the third of the known hundreds of coronavirus' that is particularly serious in humans. A vaccine for one does not automatically work for the other. But that does not mean that things were not learned from the first two, 2002 (SARS) and 2012 (MERS), as is explained HERE .
So you can't actually prepare vaccines or treatments ahead of a new outbreak, but you do learn how to be better prepared to study the newly active virus and develop specific vaccines and treatments for it.
And sorry for calling you Norm again Nerm. I have several friends and associates named Norm and I repeat their names every day. Gets stuck in my head and typing fingers I guess.
Yes, COVID-19 is a new strain but it is still a coronavirus.
Influenza quickly mutates to new strains, too. That's why influenza vaccines are typically 35 to 40 pct effective at preventing symptoms in the population. However, data does show that influenza vaccines also lessen the severity of symptoms.
Preparing a vaccine for seasonal influenza does not require 18 months of research and clinical testing. An influenza vaccine was developed long ago and is tweaked to providing efficacy against a new strain. Even though the strains change from season to season, all strains are still an influenza virus.
A developed coronavirus vaccine would work the same way. The coronavirus vaccine would have already gone through the necessary research and clinical testing. The vaccine could be tweaked for efficacy against new strains. A secondary benefit of lessening severity of symptoms would be as important as preventing symptoms.
The 2003 coronavirus epidemic should have prompted development of a vaccine that could have been tweaked just as influenza vaccine is tweaked to combat new strains. A safe vaccine should have already been on the shelf instead of waiting for a pandemic to start the research and clinical trials.
Great work pal, big virtual high five, you are awesome.
Well Nerm I'll admit that I am not a physician but I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way for what they call a novel coronavirus. It is called "novel" because it is new, and while structurally similar to at least one other strain that was harmful to humans (SARS 2002-2003) it is not the same. The first step in creating a vaccine for a new strain is to collect complete data on the precise structure of the virus and its pathogenesis.
For one, this virus is much more efficient at spreading than was SARS. In fact, no final effective vaccine was developed for SARS at the time because it came and went so quickly there was no time for proper human trials before it went away and there were no more patients. SARS had a much higher mortality rate than Covid 19, but Covid-19 spreads much more effectively and researchers need time to figure out why. But it isn't like the work that was being done to combat SARS at that time, and during the MERS outbreak in 2012, was completely lost. Of course that work is now being used to accelerate the process in developing a vaccine for Covid-19, but best estimates are that we are 12 to 18 months away, or longer. Which is still much faster than it takes to develop vaccines for these sorts of viruses, and test them thoroughly to ensure they won't make matters worse rather than better. For example, immune enhancement is also a danger when dealing with the development of vaccines for coronavirus.
I don't think it is as simple as creating a master vaccine for coronavirus that can simply be tweaked for a new or uncharted strain. That is not how vaccine development works for these sorts of viruses.
No, it's called novel because the virus transmits from animals to humans. H1N1 is a novel influenza virus.
Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) is caused by coronavirus transmitted from animals to humans. We are experiencing a SARS pandemic.
COVID-19 is a mutated strain of coronavirus. COVID-19 spreads in the same manner as earlier identified strains of coronavirus. The COVID-19 strain has either mutated to allow it to remain active in situ longer or has mutated to allow infections to overcome the immune system faster; or both.
The World Health Organization and international medical community had 15 years to perform the basic research on strains of coronavirus that cause SARS. A safe coronavirus vaccine should have been on the shelf. The safety research and clinical trials should have already been done. Coronavirus mutates at a slower pace than influenza virus or norovirus, so, a vaccine developed for earlier strains of coronavirus should still possess some efficacy for new strains.
But that is how it really does work. A new rubeola vaccine or varicella zoster vaccine isn't developed from basic research every time the measles or chickenpox viruses mutate. The safety of the vaccine is already known; only the active viral strain is changed to provide efficacy against the new strain.
People seem to forget that influenza, measles, chickenpox, mumps, and polio are viral diseases. All these viral diseases spread the same way. And the process of developing vaccines is the same for all the strains of viruses that cause these diseases.
If clinical trials are that important then when were the clinical trials performed for FDA approval of Tylenol for treating symptoms of COVID-19 infections? Tylenol is a safe effective medication but Tylenol was not tested for treating symptoms of COVID-19 infection before use. Don't ignore that a lot bureaucratic mumbo jumbo serves other purposes than treating patients.
Nope. It's because it's new. Via mutation.
There is some talk of developing a vaccine that would protect against multiple SARS-causing coronaviruses, we do not have one, and there is no guarantee that, if we had a vaccine that worked against the previous SARS virus, that it would be effective for this new ("novel") one. Such a vaccine will likely be the focus of research going forward.
Tylenol isn't especially safe, but aside from that, there is little reason to test Tylenol for every single condition that causes similar symptoms. Tylenol is known to be effective for fever and pain, whether that fever and pain are the result of Covid-19, flu, the common cold, any random virus that's going around my kid's school, or injury. The mechanism of its action does not change depending on cause of symptoms.
Yep, Pluto is not a planet. What a profound advance in human knowledge and understanding of the cosmos.
The COVID-19 is 'new' in the human population because the virus made the jump from animals to humans. COVID-19 is not 'novel' in the animal population. The animal population is the host for COVID-19. COVID-19 is not a new virus; what is new is transmission from animals to humans.
I am pretty sure a researcher at Baylor said the funding dried up under the current Admin when he believed he had isolated a common core vaccine for all coronavirus, but no one was interested in funding human tests and he still had his samples in the lab fridge. He said he could be 85-90% of the way to having a vaccine already.
No one was interested in a vaccine for an old problem, SARS or a boutique problem MERS.
I'll take a look around to see if I can find it again.
OK, you keep asking the same question and refuse to listen, read or appreciate my efforts or Nerm's.
So don't bother asking me any more.
And I will state, as evidenced by that last link, that new politicians and their crony lapdogs in this Administration, dismissed, poohpoohed and laughed at the bureaucrats and lifelong politicians who had every intention of being prepared for these emergencies.
Bureaucrats and lifelong politicians are what save us from the newbies,
just like every E6 who saves his platoon from the inexperience of every new O1.
Hasn't the researcher published their results? Or were they hoping to make killing selling the stuff to big pharma? Samples aren't as important as research data. And the researcher did receive funding to generate that research data.
And if the Federal government was providing the funding, then Dr. Anthony Fauci's NIAID was likely the source of funding.
from Bush, 2006
from Obama 2016
from Trump 2020
Our comments posted literally at the same time.
I trust you will find an answer in one of those links.
CDC, NIAID, and FEMA (among many agencies) are the front line responders for a pandemic. And those front line agencies have playbooks for on-the-ground response to a pandemic. Those agencies are responsible for implementing the plans during a pandemic.
The National Security Counsel (as its name suggests) is responsible for national security. The NSC pandemic response team developed plans for closing borders, restricting travel, enforcing quarantines, nationalizing industry, civil defense, and monitoring international threats to the United States during a pandemic.
The National Security Counsel and the HHS does not have expertise for medical, logistical, or economic response to a pandemic. The NSC uses guns, bombs, spies, and security checkpoints; not ventilators.
So, the oh-woe-is-me sorrow over Trump disbanding the NSC response team expresses a regret that the United States wasn't prepared to nuke China. I suppose that Cherenkov glow would act as a disinfectant.
To date, viruses in both bats and pangolins (the animals most highly suspected of being the reservoir) have resembled Covid-19, but have some important differences.
If Covid-19 exists in bats or pangolins, it has not been found. Similar viruses have, but they are not Covid-19.
Novel. And therefore difficult to plan ahead for with a vaccine. Is it possible to make a vaccine effective for all SARS viruses? Perhaps. Would we have been able to test for efficacy against a virus not yet in existence? No.
According to WHO the definition of novel coronavirus is:
According to the CDC :
The best layman's definition I've seen is in this Time Magazine article :
It has nothing to do with whether it transmitted from animals to humans or not. Scientists are not even sure yet that this new virus has its origins in animal to human interaction, although some evidence does point to that.
Just wanted to clear up that point as it is an important baseline in discussing how the diagnosis, testing, treatments and eventual vaccines are going to be different for any new (novel) strain of a human to human transmitted coronoavirus.
I think you meant the DHS, but otherwise I agree with your summary regarding the NSC. Certainly as far as restricting travel, and closing borders, the Administration in fact did react in an unprecedented and swift manner especially in restricting all travel to and from China, for which of course Trump was labeled "xenophobic".
Good grief. The pandemic team at NSC, led by an Admiral with a medical degree was the tip of the spear;
they knew where the resources were and how to explain it to Presidents with no pandemic experience.
Clinton established the position, Bush eliminated it, but in the aftermath of 911, reinstated it. Obama expanded it after the Ebola scare.
Trump never invited them to any meetings. Bolton thought they were an expense, a holdover of the deep state bs.
The whole process is akin to gutting fire departments because there wasn't a major fire in the last few years.
more reading material...
I read that after the swine flu the Obama administration never restocked the national supply for 7 years. Do you think that is effecting the government response?
I read that after the swine flu the Obama administration never restocked the national supply for 7 years.
Perhaps you missed this in SP's comment:
Clinton established the position, Bush eliminated it, but in the aftermath of 911, reinstated it. Obama expanded it after the Ebola scare.
Good grief, all the technocratic mumbo jumbo won't hide that the experts completely and utterly failed. I recognize the desire to use the pandemic to bash Trump but that end doesn't justify the means.
Here's the COVID-19 tracker hosted by Bing: COVID-19 Tracker
Donald Trump is not responsible for the lack of preparedness by the World Health Organization. WHO didn't even officially name the virus COVID-19 until Feb. 11. Donald Trump is not responsible for the lack of preparedness in Italy, Spain, Germany, United Kingdom, or the rest of Europe.
The interconnected Eurocentric conclave of experts screwed up, big time. United States planning has been arm-in-arm with Europe over the last five or six decades. The United States has not independently pursued national interests until Trump was elected. And one term is not sufficient time to overcome the perverted mindset of experts.
---------------------------------
If politics is the motivation then the story becomes pretty dirty.
Impeaching Trump while the pandemic was beginning distracted everyone, too. Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell were arguing over how the impeachment trial was going to be conducted when the epidemic in Wuhan, China, was first announced. The Senate adopted rules for the impeachment trial the day after the first coronavirus case in the United States was confirmed. The Trump administration formed a coronavirus task force and restricted travel to China while the Senate was asking questions prior to voting on hearing witnesses. The Senate acquitted Trump two days after Japan announced coronavirus infections on the Diamond Princess. The Senate voted to acquit Trump the day before Li Wenliang died (Li Wenliang was the doctor targeted by Chinese police for trying to warn about a SARS virus in Wuhan in December.)
Preliminary identification of patient zero points to Nov. 17 as the beginning of the pandemic. Marie Yovanovitch was testifying before the House Intelligence Committee at that time.
---------------------------------
Those pointing fingers have a lot of targets to choose from. Identifying a scapegoat is the most important requirement for any crisis. But the facts are the Western experts screwed everyone's goat.
We shouldn't allow those experts avoid accountability for their complete and utter failure.
I haven't seen anyone say he is or was. Most of the criticism is for denying the problem, along with Fox news. For that he deserves criticism.
Deflection. The Clinton Admin rumbled on doing the peoples business throughout his impeachment without making it more of a circus than it was.
Sure Nerm_L, we'll have a mock trial and then line them all up and execute them like Stalin or Kim would.
That will fix them.....
On Jan. 23, the World Health Organization issued a statement that the Wuhan coronavirus (that's WHO's description) did not constitute a public health emergency of international concern. The WHO did not declare the coronavirus outbreak a pandemic until March 11. Trump wasn't alone in dismissing or denying the problem.
The Trump administration continued doing the public's business in the midst of impeachment, too. The Trump administration formed a coronavirus task panel and restricted travel to/from China on Jan. 29-30 while Congress was preoccupied.
How very Pelosi. A Schiff parody to fabricate an alternate reality doesn't stand up to scrutiny. The reality is that the experts completely and utterly failed over decades. The United States was not prepared for the Ebola outbreak, was not prepared for the H1N1 influenza outbreak, and was not prepared for the COVID-19 outbreak. A Schiff parody doesn't hide the reality that the bureaucracy of experts isn't working the way it is supposed to.
How many Americans died from the Ebola "outbreak"? One, who had been serving in Sierre Leone along with 7 other evacuees who recovered.
How long did it take the CDC & FDA to create & approve an H1N1 vaccine? 6 months.
You'll have to excuse me, I don't get the partisan BS.
So far this Administration, denied, wished, waffled and now seems ready to fight for this country.
It remains to be seen, which model, which experts will be correct.
Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) - Mayo Clinic
"SARS is caused by a strain of coronavirus, the same family of viruses that causes the common cold. Previously, these viruses had never been particularly dangerous to humans.
Coronaviruses can, however, cause severe disease in animals, and that's why scientists suspected that the SARS virus might have crossed from animals to humans. It now seems likely that that the virus evolved from one or more animal viruses into a new strain."
Coronavirus is not a previously unidentified virus in the human population. SARS is not a new disease in humans; it's been known since 2002. And it's known that animals are more susceptible to severe symptoms caused by coronavirus.
The pedantic argument that 'novel' indicates a previously unidentified virus (or strain) of coronavirus obfuscates the reality of what is happening and failure to prepare for what is happening.
Experts using highly technical distinction of calling the virus 'novel' misinforms the public. It's a way for experts to sweep their failures under the magic carpet.
Nobody said they were.
THIS particular coronavirus is new (hence the term "novel") in humans, and is thought to have arisen from bats and/or pangolins, although THIS particular coronavirus hasn't been identified in them, either. Similar viruses (similar, but not the same) have been identified, and may have give rise to this novel coronavirus.
Experts aren't trying to misinform the public. They're using words as they are defined. There have been many failures in the handling of this pandemic, but recognizing that the new virus is new, and using a synonym for "new" to describe it, is not one of them.
Words have definitions, Nerm. Trying to assign an incorrect definition to a commonly used word, and just expecting people to abide by your rewrite of the dictionary won't fly.
This particular STRAIN of coronavirus is causing the same disease as previously identified strains of coronavirus.
A new strain of influenza virus still causes the flu. Calling the new strain 'novel' may be pedantically accurate but it's still the same disease. COVID-19 is a strain of coronavirus, not a disease. We are experiencing the same SARS that was caused by previous strains of coronavirus. The experts are using technical distinctions to mislead the public into believing this is a new disease when it's not.
Words have definitions. And using those definitions to misinform and mislead the public isn't the definition of honesty or truth.
Yeah, the experts aren't lying. But the experts aren't being honest, either.
Good grief, Nerm. You agree it's a new strain, but don't want anybody to call it that, and want to bullshit (read: mislead) us about word definitions.
Why? What is your motive?
The disease, BTW, is not the same as SARS, and is certainly not the same as those caused by other coronaviruses. The NOVEL virus is more infectious, but to date, less fatal to those infected. Imaging differences in chest x-rays have been identified, meaning the viruses do not damage the lungs in exactly the same manner.
Similarly, not all strains of influenza are the same, just because they're caused by influenza viruses. Some have more severe symptoms than others. Some are more deadly among different patient populations. The NOVEL influenza virus H1N1 was remarkable in that it was much more serious among young, healthy patients than most influenzas are.
It's a new virus. What's the hangup here? Novel means "new". If it's new (it is), and they call it new (because it is), then nobody is misleading anybody about anything. They're just calling it what it is.
Misleading is telling people that "novel" doesn't mean "new".
Says the latest expert...
And I read that John Boehner and Paul Ryan were particularly disinterested in spending money on anything that the previous Administration was interested in.
But your question could also be directed at the current Administration which wasn't interested in asking the House for the money for the replenishment.
Nerm wrote a nice explanation excusing the current Administration because apparently Bolton's intention of removing the pandemic team at NSC was to decentralize the system and kick the responsibility back to the 55 states and territories. Someone forgot to tell the 55 Governors...
Well thank you for the kind words.
Trump or someone in the CDC eliminated a key position in China last July. Dr. Linda Quick's position
as a trainer of epidemiologists in China was to be terminated in September due to the bitter trade dispute
between China and the USA.
Yes hindsight is 20/20, but the more we see, the more we see what could have been 'game changing' if handled differently.
Regardless of the experts that Trump has surrounded himself with now, the experts he reassigned or fired are the ones who could have been much more helpful to us all.
The CDC insists (naturally) that eliminating Quick's position did not affect their ability one bit because
( and I know you will appreciate this ) they had two Chinese nationals in place that they trusted,
and I guess it goes without saying who Chinese nationals would be more loyal to, right?
Just my opinion, stay safe.
Bottom line here is loyalty. Private life Trump's world was small, controlled only by him, everything in a stance of where he either embraced it or walked away without consequence.
There is also this. Trump was always able to hide or ignore his deficiencies, which are many and is the only reason he always surrounded himself with lesser people whose loyalty may guarantee a profit for them.
As far as Dr. Fauci and any other reasonable individuals currently trying to aid this administration it may be better if they would all disengage immediately, thereby allowing the Trumpian conglomeration to implode on itself. This action may have short term pain on the nation, but the sacrifice in the long run would be more than worth it. America would recover quickly and the lesson would be learned to never allow ( THAT ) to happen again.
As far as Trump, I wonder how many sealed indictments await him?
I'm thinking NY has dibs on the first prosecution.
Trump will be in court and in prison for the rest of his life
Lol ....dream on .....
“As far as Dr. Fauci and any other reasonable individuals currently trying to aid this administration it may be better if they would all disengage immediately, thereby allowing the Trumpian conglomeration to implode on itself. This action may have short term pain on the nation, but the sacrifice in the long run would be more than worth it. America would recover quickly and the lesson would be learned to never allow ( THAT ) to happen again.”
Seriously?! You want all the experts who have been guiding the administration thus far, including those who advised him to immediately shut down travel from China in the early stages (which he did whilst being impeached), to “disengage”?
What sort of “short term pain” do you figure that would cause? What sort of “sacrifice” do you think would be worth it? Thousands of lives, tens of thousands? Just to see Trump fail? Really? Is that what this has come to? SMH. Perhaps you should be careful what you wish for, in case part of the pain and sacrifice you hope for happens to you or someone you care about.
Trump has the patience of a starving man at pie eating contest.
Ha!
Lol .... true dat! But I wonder how patient anyone here would be were they getting the constant hammering Trump gets daily .....
If he would just stick to FACTS, and stop acting like a damn idiot and LISTEN to the medical experts and stop acting like he's at one of his rallies, and he said today and I quote:
Saying the country was nearing the "the end of our historic battle" with "the invisible enemy" of coronavirus, President Trump on Tuesday evening emphasized his desire for the U.S. to reopen for business by Easter -- as his top economic adviser said Congress is "getting closer and closer" to passing an unprecedented fiscal stimulus package.
We aren't near the end by far - Trump can shove it right up his ass
I live in WNY and there are now 114 cases and there are new cases every day and we now have one death. It's just getting going here. Here's a break down, this is just Erie County, Niagara County which is 10 minutes away from me has 12 cases.
As of noon on March 24, 58 percent of the confirmed patients are male, 42 percent are female. County Executive Mark Poloncarz says the majority of their cases are under the age 60 years old.
Trump can shove it up his ass....this is NOT the flu, it is a VIRUS and is MORE contagious...sheesh...
The rest of your post is all bullshit along with EVERYTHING that comes out of trump's mouth
We are NO where NEAR the END OF THE TUNNEL like the conman stated.
Maybe you should listen to what he said, because I posted EXACTLY what he said.
lady in black and XD, this conversation is becoming too personal. Cool it, please.
For crying the freak out loud, she quoted him directly.
No she selectively quoted him directly to trigger a reaction [deleted]
At the end of the have things open be Easter speech President Trump gave he said that depends on the advice he receives from Dr. Fauci and Debra. But hey lets not let a hyperbolic post distort the facts, right?
I quoted what he said, this is from fox news...are they now lying.
Trump urges Americans to stay focused in coronavirus fight: Beginning to see a light at the end of the tunnel
Trump leads daily briefing of White House coronavirus task force.
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Saying the country was nearing the "the end of our historic battle" with "the invisible enemy" of coronavirus, President Trump on Tuesday evening emphasized his desire for the U.S. to reopen for business by Easter -- as his top economic adviser said Congress is "getting closer and closer" to passing an unprecedented fiscal stimulus package.
Speaking at Tuesday's White House coronavirus task force briefing, Director of the U.S. National Economic Council Larry Kudlow specifically said the new coronavirus bill working its way through congressional gridlock would total $6 trillion: $4 trillion in liquidity from the Federal Reserve and $2 trillion in new money. Typical annual appropriations from Congress in a given fiscal year are around $1.2-4 trillion, with total expenditures roughly $4.3 trillion.
"I said earlier today that I hope we can do this by Easter," Trump said in the White House briefing room, referring to his comments at a Fox News virtual town hall that officials could soon ease social-distancing restrictions. "I think that would be a great thing for our country, and we're all working very hard to make that a reality. ... Easter is a very special day for many reasons."
Trump also sounded an unexpectedly magnanimous note: "I also want to thank Congress, because whether or not we're happy that they haven't quite gotten there yet, they have been working long hours. I'm talking Republicans and Democrats, all of them, the House, the Senate. I want to thank Congress because they are really trying to get there, and I think they will."
DEMS FUME AS TRUMP SAYS COUNTRY MAY BE REOPENED BY EASTER
“This package will be the single largest Main Street assistance program in the history of the United States,” Kudlow said, adding that negotiations would continue into the evening but that a vote is imminent.
Again, I quoted what he said directly from Fox News, are they now lying too?
Sorry, I don't suffer from TDS Trump DENIAL syndrome...oh he didn't say that, you heard him wrong, you are cherry picking....sheesh...get out of denial
As of 9:30 there are now 121 cases. Early this morning there were only 96 cases...trump can take his light and put it where the sun doesn't shine
You are taking what he is saying and running with it in the worst possible way. Trump hasn’t said “conclusively” that things will be back to normal by Easter. Only that he desires that it be.
That said, Easter is nearly three weeks away. How about we wait and see what happens in that three weeks before we completely hammer Trumps approach right now?
That said, I suspect no matter what Trump says or does you will find fault with it.
yeah, that never happened before... /s
That is a great idea. However, I don't see 3 weeks as being long enough. I could be wrong. I think I was wrong once last year, turns out I was wrong about that.
Maybe, maybe not but I don’t think passing judgement on it today makes much sense either way.
He could try not being a complete asshole for once.
Ok. I read the article... twice and still find no evidence presented that supports the title of the piece. Where is the “unusual leeway”, and where did any aides indicate the Trump is “losing patience” with Dr. Fauci? In fact, the article quotes Fauci himself on more than one occasion explaining that he and Trump are on the same page, Trump listens to him and follows his advice on policy/action, and that there is no friction between them. He even said that he can’t imagine anyone else dealing with the situation any better than Trump has. Honestly, how does one write a piece like this and then affix a headline to it that suggests the opposite of what is actually laid out in the evidence, and the opposite of what Fauci himself keeps repeating interview after interview?
Honestly I think Fauci has had it with the media bullshit on this issue probably as much as Trump has. If, as Fauci says, the President has followed all of his recommendations since the outbreak and has handled it as well as anyone else could have, then what purpose does this media obsession with trying to drive a wedge between them serve? Who will it help?
You pushed this back to the top of trending just to complain? Alrighty then.
Also, Dr. Fauci is quite expressive when Trump is not being truthful. You should see it sometime. It's pretty funny and impossible not to notice. There is no wedge being driven. I prefer the funnier side of life, and this fit the bill perfectly.
Another point: Trump has no control over whether or not Dr. Fauci remains employed. If he did, the man would have been gone with the first agitated arm-cross.
BTW, I used to enjoy your commentary at NV very much. If I remember correctly, you posted one of my all-time favorite articles, Farting: The Rules of Engagement. I haven't read it (or even seen it) in years, and it still makes me laugh. If you are not the one who posted the article, my apologies for the goof.
Complain? Nah...Actually just to point out a fact, and to illuminate a tactic used by many who write this sort of article. And happy to cause your seed to trend in the process my friend! The Fish also has an article on this topic which lays out more of Fauci's comments indicating that when it comes to policy and action, he and Trump are on the same page starting with the very early decision to shut down travel incoming from China, for which Trump was labeled a bigot and a xenophobe by the very same people who continue to claim that he hasn't done enough, or hasn't listened to his advisers. Fauci said recently,
Anyhoot....
Well, not sure I titled it that but I did tell a number of true stories in that vein back while we were all still on Newsvine. Some of them are recorded in my collection HERE . Enjoy!
Found it! It's under the title Shameless. I'm laughing so hard that I'm not sure whether to pee or plant poppies!!
Now that I think about it, someone else might have contributed the article, hence the title Farting: The rules of engagement. I want to say it was about someone farting in an elevator full of people. Perhaps you added Shameless in the comments. Whatever the venue, it is a worthwhile comedic contribution.
BTW, I was formerstew on NV.
Ah yes. I recall that name. Good to see you here my friend!
Glad you enjoyed the compilation of funnies. I recall getting that "Shameless" piece years ago from a close high school friend of mine who swore that I must have written it, knowing my sick sense of humor (and occasional digestive issues). Alas, sadly, I cannot claim the piece as my own, but I did lose both contact lenses the first 10 times I read it. The Chili Contest one also kills me. The Weird Science story is indeed mine and is actually based on a true story, which my aforementioned high-school friend actually witnessed.
That is where Fauci has been allowed to take the mic and basically say "forget everything the president just said, this is the reality." Most people who use actual facts and data around fat fuck don't last long. Fauci has lasted because Trump knows that if he fires him the markets will enter a complete freefall.
If Trump fires the only reliable source of information (reliable specifically because he goes against the president) then that will signal to investors that there is no one in charge, no one has a clue what the fuck is going on, and there is absolutely no plan. Basically Trump can't fire Fauci without firing a second term.
Aside from Fauci not saying even basically, "forget everything the President just said..." what is unusual about him being allowed to take the mic? He is on the task force and is in fact one of its leaders, and when he speaks and tempers or qualifies what the President just said, Trump is often nodding in the affirmative. So how the hell is that unusual leeway? Now if Trump did not let him take the mic, or came back and said don't listen to "Little Fauci" or something like that, then yeah, that would be unusual. There is no "unusual leeway" here. That is a complete figment of some folks imagination.
And where is the evidence of Trump "losing patience" with Dr. Fauci? The article says that "aides" are saying this, but provides not a single quote from any of the President's "aides". If it is in the headline, wouldn't you expect the evidence in the article? Just asking, because very recently Trump has said that he gets along "very well" with Dr. Fauci .
Even Fauci said in an interview on 3/24
Another article about that here:
I am trying so hard to be good. A nice pat on the head for you.
Awwww. Your're too kind Thrawn. I can see how facts and reality can really upset some folks. But you are taking it so well. Good for you....
What scares me is that Trump said he hopes this is over by Easter. Too many of his followers and other morons will interpret that as, hey it's Easter so we can party again.
Maybe he was talking about Lent?......
Seriously though who doesn't hope it will be over by Easter? I think both the President and Fauci have made it very clear that Trumps wishful timeline will be flexible and vary depending on a number of variables/data including the area of the country. Obviously New York and most of California around the big cities are not going to see that happen. And no, Trump is not telling people to go out and fill the churches for Easter as one "journalist" screamed out at the end of the 3/24/20 presser. SMH
That is the point I was trying to make throughout this thread and elsewhere on other similar articles. And just today, Trump did indeed listen to his advisers like he has said he would all along, and has modified his "hope" with respect to when we might be able to relax some of the restrictions based on the latest data. The question is, will those who were convinced that he was going to ignore advice and lift restrictions, or continue to push "false hope", now admit that perhaps they fell for the spin rather than listening to what he ACTUALLY said (and now did)?
It would be nice if from here on out there is more working together by those of both parties, but expecting Democrats to adopt the MAGA mantra is pushing it a bit don't you think?
Fucking Fauci, giving people real information based upon data! Who in the fuck does he think he is? This is Merica where we go based on FEELINGS!
Well, finally trump's handler's got through to him-- and he's seems to be talking a little common sense-- at least for now. (Although with Trump he's liable to change his mind at the drop of a hat-- and deny he ever said what he said!)
Trump’s Easter Restart Undone by His Experts’ Dire Virus Models