'What are we doing this for?': Doctors are fed up with conspiracies ravaging ERs

  
Via:  perrie-halpern  •  4 weeks ago  •  109 comments

By:   Ben Collins

'What are we doing this for?': Doctors are fed up with conspiracies ravaging ERs
Several doctors shared how coronavirus misinformation has affected them and discussed their experiences with patients who sought care too late because of conspiracy theories.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



By Ben Collins

At the end of another long shift treating coronavirus patients, Dr. Hadi Halazun opened his Facebook page to find a man insisting to him that "no one's dying" and that the coronavirus is "fake news" drummed up by the news media.

Hadi tried to engage and explain his firsthand experience with the virus. In reply, another user insinuated that he wasn't a real doctor, saying pictures from his profile showing him at concerts and music festivals proved it.

"I told them: 'I am a real doctor. There are 200 people in my hospital's ICU,'" said Halazun, a cardiologist in New York. "And they said, 'Give me your credentials.' I engaged with them, and they kicked me off their wall."

"I left work and I felt so deflated. I let it get to me."

Halazun, like many other health care professionals, is dealing with a bombardment of misinformation and harassment from conspiracy theorists, some of whom have moved beyond posting online to pressing doctors for proof of the severity of the pandemic.

And it's taking a toll. Halazun said dealing with conspiracy theorists is the "second most painful thing I've had to deal with, other than separation of families from their loved one."

Several other doctors shared similar experiences, saying that they regularly had to treat patients who had sought care too late because of conspiracy theories spread on social media and that social media companies have to do more to counteract the forces that spread lies for profit.

A protester holds a sign at the ReOpen Oregon Rally in Salem, Ore., on Saturday, May 2, 2020. Terray Sylvester / Getty Images

Dr. Duncan Maru, a physician and epidemiologist in Queens, New York, said he had heard from colleagues that a young patient had come into the emergency room last week with damage to his intestinal tract after having ingested bleach. The incident occurred just days after President Donald Trump suggested that "injection" of disinfectants should be researched as a potential coronavirus treatment.

"Folks delaying seeking care or, taking the most extreme case, somebody drinking bleach as a result of structural factors just underlines the fact that we have not protected the public from disinformation," Maru said.

The structural factors in this case include Facebook, YouTube and Twitter, which have struggled to contain the spread of misinformation, some of it coming from positions of authority.

Social networks have taken a variety of steps in recent weeks to thwart misinformation, such as providing dedicated portals for vetted information from public health officials and banning content related to conspiracy theories around 5G wireless technology.

Despite the efforts, the distribution networks built up in recent years by fringe media personalities and activists on tech platforms and through websites have proven resilient.

Whitney Phillips, a assistant professor of communications who studies the spread of disinformation at Syracuse University, said the coronavirus outbreak offers a look at how conspiracy thinking is now, in some ways, more organized.

"With conspiracy theories, the reason they're impervious to fact-checking is that they have become a way of being in the world for believers," Phillips said. "It isn't just one narrative that you can debunk. It is a holistic way of being in the world that has been reinforced by all the other bulls--- that these platforms have allowed people to consume for years."

'It scares me more than anything'


Organized harassment campaigns, lies and urban legends targeting doctors are a real-life symptom of what the World Health Organization dubbed the "infodemic" as the coronavirus started to spread throughout the world earlier this year.

Halazun has since stopped engaging with the trolls on Facebook, some of whom claimed that "the hospitals are empty" and that the virus was part of a plot to vaccinate or microchip U.S. citizens — just two of the many conspiracy theories that have swirled around the coronavirus.

But he was still left with big questions: How can people believe this stuff? And do they understand the algorithms and opportunistic extremists that led them to believe it?

"It scares me more than anything that there are people who are basically controlled — and in the same way they feel they're fighting against that control," he said. "They go to YouTube, where they're really being controlled, and they don't realize it. That's what's scary."

Maru also said he felt that tech platforms need to do more to deal with disinformation, but he acknowledged that there is no easy fix.

"I do think it's a monumental task to hold these companies to account, but in the COVID case, they truly have blood on their hands," Maru said.

Beyond emergency rooms and internet platforms, there are hints of how far some coronavirus misinformation has spread. Dr. Rajeev Fernando said that when he takes questions about the coronavirus on radio shows, one out of every two callers refers to 5G towers or conspiracy theories about labs in Wuhan, China.

On the phone, sometimes they'll listen to reality, said Fernando, an infectious diseases specialist at Stony Brook Southampton Hospital in New York.

"Some people have an agenda, and you can't help that," Fernando said. "But for other people, I say, 'Let me try to answer your questions and see why you think this way and why I think this is an appropriate answer.'"

Still, Fernando believes social media networks need watchdogs, including physicians, to identify disinformation before it once again becomes a public health crisis.

"We have to understand these [conspiracy theorists] are criminal organizations which really stop at nothing to get disinformation out," Fernando said.

Bill Gates and 5G


Well-organized, professional disinformation peddlers in the QAnon and anti-vaccination movements have gained new audiences during the coronavirus pandemic by coalescing around two primary boogeymen: Bill Gates and 5G towers.

Halazun heard it all firsthand. He didn't know where it all began or how to stop it.

"These anti-vaccination people were telling me I'm a sheep," Halazun said. "Dr. Fauci this, Bill Gates that. And I don't really care what you think about Bill Gates. It doesn't affect me. But it does affect me when they tell me what we're doing is not real and that the hospitals are really empty. It hurts."

In January, a well-known promoter of QAnon, the baseless conspiracy theory that Trump is secretly dismantling a pedophile-cannibal cabal that runs the U.S. government, pushed a conspiracy theory that Gates "patented" the coronavirus based on a mischaracterized public patent search.

The patent was created by a Gates-aligned research institute to research a vaccine, a common practice among researchers, and it covered a previous coronavirus, not the one that causes COVID-19.

Still, the tweet helped spark a focus on Gates that has permeated the various conspiracy theory networks that have developed on the internet in recent years.

The same QAnon promoter later promoted a diluted form of bleach called "Miracle Mineral Solution" as a possible way to kill the coronavirus.

Similarly, the anti-vaccination movement has pushed a false conspiracy theory that 5G towers are weakening immune systems throughout the world and that COVID-19 is a cover story for the colossal death tolls around the world.

After a prominent anti-vaccination figure posted a video on Instagram of a man alongside a destroyed 5G tower, several arson fires were set on towers across Europe and Canada.

Brian Keeley, a professor of philosophy at Pitzer College in California who studies why people believe in conspiracy theories, said some people in times of crisis look to far-fetched ideas with simple answers for complex problems.

Providing a straightforward, extinguishable enemy — whether it's a well-known celebrity like Gates or a mysterious concept like the illuminati — gives conspiracy theorists hope, agency and power in a time of chaos. In reality, those recognizable, often mortal figures are simply scapegoats for an act of God.

"People are looking for these kinds of explanations to control something in their lives," Keeley said.

Keeley, who's been researching conspiracy theories for over 20 years, said he has abandoned using Facebook because of the "depression that comes from looking at that."

"It's sort of an informational quarantine," he said. "You don't want to be exposing yourself to a different kind of virus."

Quitting Facebook


After researching why people believe in the conspiracy theories, Halazun has come to the same conclusion: Right now, it's not worth it for a doctor to spend any time on Facebook.

"We're limited in our emotional capacity. I'm not going to spend whatever I have left after a long day of work trying to convince a conspiracy theorist," Halazun said. "They're immune to any evidence. You're not going to change their mind."

As Halazun stepped outside after his Facebook experience, he heard the bang of pots and pans and whoops and hollers. It was 7 p.m., and New York City residents were participating in their nightly salute to health care workers on the front lines of fighting the coronavirus pandemic.

"I just started crying," Halazun said. "I thought, 'What do I believe here?' It almost made me question myself. Some people are out there who are sitting in their homes, going on these videos and then telling us it's fake while we're saving lives.

"I felt like 'What are we doing this for?'"

Ben Collins

Ben Collins covers disinformation, extremism and the internet for NBC News.


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Thomas
1  Thomas    4 weeks ago
Whitney Phillips, a assistant professor of communications who studies the spread of disinformation at Syracuse University, said the coronavirus outbreak offers a look at how conspiracy thinking is now, in some ways, more organized. "With conspiracy theories, the reason they're impervious to fact-checking is that they have become a way of being in the world for believers," Phillips said. "It isn't just one narrative that you can debunk. It is a holistic way of being in the world that has been reinforced by all the other bulls--- that these platforms have allowed people to consume for years."

Some people, people I know, have known for years, spout conspiracy stuff all the time. I see them on Facebook just going all out to try and convince the world of it. And they aren't pulling your leg. They totally believe that Donald Trump got elected in 2016........  ;)

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
1.1  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Thomas @1    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
TᵢG
2  TᵢG    4 weeks ago

Many people will seek ways to corroborate a belief that they desire to be true.   Others formulate beliefs based on evidence (and reason).

The worldwide pandemic is not a hoax orchestrated (extremely effectively) by a worldwide network of conspirators.   Those who believe such a feat give far too much credit to malicious human beings and far too little credit to those who would (easily) expose such a fraud.

 
 
 
Thomas
2.1  Thomas  replied to  TᵢG @2    3 weeks ago

I believe that delusional thinking is more widespread than the mental health authorities would have you think..... Maybe its a conspiracy  jrSmiley_123_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Krishna
2.1.1  Krishna  replied to  Thomas @2.1    3 weeks ago
I believe that delusional thinking is more widespread than the mental health authorities would have you think.

One of my favourite quotes:

I know of two things that are Infinite-- The Universe and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely sure about the former.

--Albert Einstein

 
 
 
Krishna
2.2  Krishna  replied to  TᵢG @2    3 weeks ago
Many people will seek ways to corroborate a belief that they desire to be true. 

In fact that phenomenon is so common (unfortunately) there's even a name for it: "Confirmation Bias".

 
 
 
TᵢG
2.2.1  TᵢG  replied to  Krishna @2.2    3 weeks ago

Indeed.   I have offered that label so many times now that I have resorted to simply describing it in simple terms.    Some individuals will not ever look up a term.   Alas, some will not even read (or accept) a simple definition when presented in a comment.  There is a term for that too.  jrSmiley_82_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3  Buzz of the Orient    4 weeks ago

And NT has its share of conspiracy theorists as well.. As soon as one falsehood is debunked, they create a new one,  I've given up trying to deal with them.  For example, they can call me whatever they want, and I no longer care or waste my time trying to set them straight.  No names are needed - they know who they are. 

 
 
 
Raven Wing
3.1  Raven Wing  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3    3 weeks ago
No names are needed - they know who they are. 

As do we all.

 
 
 
Kavika
4  Kavika     3 weeks ago

The village idiots screaming from the rooftops. ''It's the deep state''.

Meanwhile yesterday another 2500 plus Americans died from the virus. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
4.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Kavika @4    3 weeks ago

Your first line:  jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

Your second line:  jrSmiley_50_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Sparty On
5  Sparty On    3 weeks ago

Yes and some people put Nikes on and commit suicide expecting to be picked up by the spaceship behind the Hale-Bopp comet.

Why doe he do it?   Because that's his job.   Part of that job in his case is dealing with crackpots.

Considering the situation i can understand his venting but i fail to see his point unless of course he's tired of being a Doctor.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
5.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Sparty On @5    3 weeks ago
Why doe he do it?   Because that's his job.   Part of that job in his case is dealing with crackpots.

When did being a citizen of the "United" States get hired, and have the job description of "dealing with crackpots." as part of their job description...

also, "Why does he do it?" Because he IS a LYING self serving UNSTABLE, NARSCICISTIC  PANDEMIC DENYING DEUSTCH

BAG of PAST GAS, FAILED PowerPussy grabbin baqck stabbin frontal assault DOLT, who should be hit by a EN LIGHTNING BOLT, through his NECK, cause it's connected to HIS NUTS, cause he IS, 

and supporting the DICK, isa squirrely pick, from those who not NOSE

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
6  sandy-2021492    3 weeks ago

I've lost track of how many people have shared the "Plandemic" video produced by Judy Mikovits.  Apparently, Covid-19 came from bad vaccines (because of course she's anti-vaxx), and we're all gonna die of carbon dioxide poisoning from wearing masks, living healthcare workers who wear masks at work every damn day and have for years notwithstanding.

She's been jailed.  She's falsified her research.  And people still believe her shit.

 
 
 
Sparty On
6.1  Sparty On  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6    3 weeks ago
She's been jailed.  She's falsified her research.  And people still believe her shit.

So what?  

Honestly, if every time one or a minority have a crackpot idea or makes a dumb statement in this world someone is going to strip a gear you better call Acme Gear Co because you are going to need a shitload of replacement gears.

And as far as the people who follow stupid ideas like that:   Stupid is as stupid does.   Personal accountability rules in the end.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
6.1.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sparty On @6.1    3 weeks ago

So it reveals some serious deficiencies in our education system and the critical thinking skills of a good portion of our population, and maybe we should address that instead of acting like it's no big deal.  Maybe you're ok with it, but I see a problem when people hear "masks put you at risk of carbon dioxide poisoning" and nod their heads in agreement and hit "share" rather than thinking for 0.2 seconds and realizing "oh, wait, doctors and nurses aren't dropping like flies from breathing CO2".  I think a population that can reason is a good thing, but I guess some are ok with one that just believes any bullshit that comes along. 

Also, these idiots don't endanger just themselves.

 
 
 
Sparty On
6.1.2  Sparty On  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.1.1    3 weeks ago

Lol ..... deficiencies in our education system eh?   Lets talk critical thinking.

Is it realistic in a society that allows free thought to expect that everyone will think the same thing or even logically for that matter?   No it is not and to think that it is defies the very essence of being human.   In that every individual in a free society is free to think and act as they choose.   Everyone is different.   Not everyone has the same views.

And again, if people are stupid enough to follow stupid ideas then natural selection may take its course.

Nothing confusing about that.   Nothing at all.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
6.1.3  XDm9mm  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.1.1    3 weeks ago
So it reveals some serious deficiencies in our education system

Yes, it sure as shit does.   When they don't give grades and send kids on to the next grade simply because "they tried", while those very same kids can't add or subtract, read or write, there most certainly is something seriously wrong with our educational system.   Hurt their precious fragile little feelings and bruise their egos and maybe they'll realize that the world outside of their cloistered little world is not kind.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
6.1.4  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sparty On @6.1.2    3 weeks ago
Is it realistic in a society that allows free thought to expect that everyone will think the same thing or even logically for that matter?

Yes, Sparty, because the ability to recognize logical inconsistency shouldn't be considered a trait for which we should all strive.  The inability to do so should be excused.  As XD says, at least they try.  We should accept their best effort, and not try to improve, or consider that their failures contribute to endangering the lives or health of others.  Poor lambs, they're doing their best.  Give them a participation trophy.

Nothing confusing about that.

I'm not confused.  I just recognize the defense of stupidity.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
6.1.5  sandy-2021492  replied to  XDm9mm @6.1.3    3 weeks ago
Nothing confusing about that.

You wanna know something funny?  You actually agree with me, but are doing your best to argue with me.  My stance is that their ignorance should not be equated with knowledge.  Free thought doesn't allow them to say that 2+2=7, and promote them to second grade.  IOW, they don't get a participation trophy just for having an idea, especially if that idea is not borne out by simple logic (like masks causing carbon dioxide poisoning).  Their ideas don't jive with the world outside their cloistered little world.  Their ideas didn't pan out, so they had to falsify data (in the case of Judy Mikovits) to avoid having their precious fragile little feelings hurt, and when called on it, they get their egos bruised.

But they have their defenders.  Because they're free-thinking individuals, and having different ideas, even if they have to lie to support those ideas, is just the essence of being human.  And not recognizing the lies as equal to truth, or at least well-supported hypotheses, is suppressing their precious individuality and inhuman.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
6.1.6  XDm9mm  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.1.5    3 weeks ago
You actually agree with me, but are doing your best to argue with me. 

Hardly trying to argue with you.  Our current educational system SUCKS.  Please note the all caps.  I've been screaming that for years.

Fortunately, my grandkids are in the International School in Bangkok and far, far away from what Americans call school.  They're actually expected to complete their assignments, get actual grades and can even fail a class forcing them to retake it to ensure understanding.

Our schools are hostages to the teachers unions protecting teachers that don't care and can't teach to the detriment of the good teachers and students who are secondary thoughts. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
6.1.7  Sparty On  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.1.4    3 weeks ago

Lol nice snark sandy .... you have a better day now ya hear!

 
 
 
XDm9mm
6.1.8  XDm9mm  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.1.1    3 weeks ago
"masks put you at risk of carbon dioxide poisoning"

Not to be contradictory, but predicated on the mask one is wearing, it is possible per at least one incident:

Woman Crashes Car Into Pole After Allegedly Passing Out From Wearing N95 Mask For Too Long
Source:  https://worldofbuzz.com/woman-crashes-car-into-pole-after-allegedly-passing-out-from-wearing-n95-mask-for-too-long/

On a personal level, my wife wears an N-95 when shopping and admits to getting light headed and can't wait until she's out of the store to get it off and breath.  Her sister in Florida is the same.   

 
 
 
Citizen Kane-473667
6.1.9  Citizen Kane-473667  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.1.5    3 weeks ago
2+2=7

2 is 2

+ sign is 1

2 is another 2

= sign is 2 lines

2+2=7

Common core math! jrSmiley_100_smiley_image.jpg

 
 
 
XDm9mm
6.1.10  XDm9mm  replied to  Citizen Kane-473667 @6.1.9    3 weeks ago

CLASSIC!!!!!

On a serious note.  my DIL has her Masters in Finance and is working on her Piled High and Deep.  My granddaughter brought home some "math" work from school (International School in Bangkok, the son and DIL are govvies working there) that my DIL finally figured out after about 4 hours.  She took a picture of it and sent it to me and the wife and we just looked at each other like WTF?

Fortunately, both grankids learned the basics from Grandma and me and had their addition, subtraction, multiplication and division down pat before they even hit 1st grade along with the alphabet and basic reading, spelling and block writing.

 
 
 
TᵢG
6.1.11  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @6.1.7    3 weeks ago

A good argument is not snark.  

Blind acceptance (the lack of critical thinking) is great for those who seek to influence the masses.   Sandy is making the case that society is better off when people take time to reason based on facts rather than simply accept as truth what others tell them.   

She was not arguing that everyone in society thinks the same way or that everyone is logical, quite the opposite.   She was effectively arguing that because plenty in society do not think logically that absence of effective reasoning is a societal problem.   A problem we should address rather than shrug our collective shoulders.

When people accept the false narrative of a conspiracy and put themselves and others at risk by reducing (or abandoning) precautions do we sigh and exclaim 'not everyone is logical' or do we challenge such thinking and work against the spread of ignorance?

Sandy argues to work against the spread of ignorance and you deem her to be confused (and, implicitly, naïve) and then ironically label her thoughtful argument as 'snark'.  

 
 
 
Sparty On
6.1.12  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @6.1.11    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
TᵢG
6.1.13  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @6.1.12    3 weeks ago
Not sure why you are responding because you know i could [sic] care less what you think.  

I responded to counter your post @6.1.2 which publicly mischaracterized Sandy and her argument.   It does not matter whether or not you read it.

Your snarky, personal reply instead of a thoughtful rebuttal supports my point.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
6.1.14  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Citizen Kane-473667 @6.1.9    3 weeks ago

No teacher likes common core. 

 
 
 
1stwarrior
6.1.15  1stwarrior  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1.14    3 weeks ago

Nor do teacher's spouses :-)

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
6.1.16  sandy-2021492  replied to  XDm9mm @6.1.8    3 weeks ago

The police department made sure to stress in a later Facebook post that their "diagnosis" was speculation.

As far as your wife is concerned, many people complain that they "can't breathe" with N95 masks, and yet doctors and nurses caring for coronavirus patients wear them all day, with few breaks.  It is possible that your wife has a problem with the mask psychologically (I don't really like wearing them, either), but unless she has another physical problem, it is unlikely that she is being exposed to dangerous levels of carbon dioxide.  If she were, healthcare workers who wear N95s for 12-hour shifts would be dropping like flies, and they're not.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
6.1.17  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Sparty On @6.1.12    3 weeks ago
Not sure why you are responding because you know i could care less what you think.   I've made that more than perfectly clear here.

F U R Stating, U B capable of caring less, it has relevance with you, asz it should, cause i believe you are intelligent enough to knowTiG is way out of your league in his logic and reason,that you can not seem to overcome, so come on over, and i'll provide the stuff U OULDN'T care Less about!   C

 
 
 
Sparty On
6.1.18  Sparty On  replied to  igknorantzrulz @6.1.17    3 weeks ago

Hilarious!

I have to hand It to you though.    You do have a very active imagination.    It’ll get even better if you ever leave your bubble.

I won’t hold my breath for that to happen though.   You seem very happy there.    Later ....

zip lock

Youngstown

sunglasses

alveoli 

 
 
 
Thomas
6.1.19  Thomas  replied to  Sparty On @6.1    3 weeks ago

Personally, I prefer Spacely Sprockets...

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
6.1.20  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  TᵢG @6.1.13    3 weeks ago

 Maybe there's an instruction in the O'Donnell Republican Guidebook for Trump Reelection about countering logical arguments and conclusions if they don't support Trump's reelection, in order to deflect from Trump's incompetence by blaming China, and in fact making up new conspiracy theories when the existing ones are debunked, or criticizing Biden or accusing him of being a normal caring man when dealing with women, or that he likes China. 

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
6.1.21  Dean Moriarty  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @6.1.20    3 weeks ago

There was some good news coming from the gal you like Nikki Haley Buzz. 

“Haley is asking people to sign a petition urging Congress to get tough with “communist China” amid rising criticism of Beijing’s questionable handling of the coronavirus in the weeks after the disease emerged in Wuhan. The issue aligns with a hawkish foreign  policy Haley promoted at the United Nations, and since leaving President Trump’s cabinet, that has emphasized confronting China’s authoritarian regime.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/nikki-haley-stokes-anger-at-china-to-build-2024-election-support/ar-BB13I7iW?li=BBnb7Kz

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
6.1.22  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Dean Moriarty @6.1.21    3 weeks ago

I've seen that the Chinese Ambassador to the USA has made a genuine request that instead of blaming others, all nations should be working together to defeat the common enemy - the virus.  However, Americans are doing a great job on pointing and blaming instead - even to their own and themselves - New York City being the case.   When I see ridiculous comments about people lying dead in the streets here, and people being locked in their homes, even having their doors welded shut, I've come to realize that Americans are desperate to shift the blame for the fantastically astronomical numbers in the USA to ANYWHERE they can, in order to deflect from their own incompetent attempts to control the spread - especially their defiance of what it takes to beat the scourge.  As for people lying dead in the streets - from my apartment I have a really good view of the streets and I saw no such thing.  As for having our doors locked by the authorities - laughable, and to the extent of our doors being welded shut - HILARIOUS.  Maybe New York City should be sued for allowing infected people to travel around the country.  

Damn.  I swore to myself I was not going to bother responding to that garbage any more - now that things are pretty well back to normal, people not even bothering to wear masks any more since there have not been any new cases nor unrecoverd ones where I live for more than a couple of months.  Maybe it takes giving up a little of the exalted freedom, and being more concerned about OTHER people's health and lives than what is STILL happening in the USA.  So just to deflect and make yourself feel better, just follow the O'Donnell guidebook, just keep up inventing new conspiracy theories and ramp up the blame and the lawsuits cause I'm sure it will make all of you feel better. 

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
6.1.23  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @6.1.22    3 weeks ago
I've seen that the Chinese Ambassador to the USA has made a genuine request that instead of blaming others, all nations should be working together to defeat the common enemy - the virus

tell your ambassador we will defeat the virus or learn to live with it. with or without chinas help

and at the same time we will hold china accountable 

chinas destruction of our lives and economies is not going to be forgiven or forgotten because china starts singing kumbaya

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
6.1.24  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @6.1.23    3 weeks ago

He/s not my Ambassador.  He's China's Ambassador to the USA.  It should be obvious to even an ignoramus like Alfred E. Neuman that my Ambassador would be a Canadian - or do you think my avatar is the flag of the P.R.C?  ...China's Ambassador is in the USA where you are so you can go and tell him yourself. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
6.1.25  XDm9mm  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @6.1.22    3 weeks ago
Maybe it takes giving up a little of the exalted freedom,

That's fucking hysterical coming from someone living in a Communist POLICE state.

FUCK the Communist Party of China and that fat cocksucker running it.  Let the people depose that piece of shit and his Communist minions and join the people of the civilized world.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
6.1.26  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @6.1.24    3 weeks ago
that my Ambassador would be a Canadian

first your not a citizen of either country and now you are a proud canadian citizen again. -  it is hard to keep up.

China's Ambassador is in the USA where you are so you can go and tell him yourself. 

no worries, trump has that covered.

cheers :)

 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
6.1.27  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @6.1.26    3 weeks ago

I don't know how many times I have to say that the comment I was addressing was one I assumed meant China and America, NOT CANADA.  That is why I said I'm not a citizen of either country.  All my life I have only been a citizen of CANADA.  SEE MY AVATAR.  Got it yet?

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
6.1.28  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @6.1.27    3 weeks ago
I don't know how many times I have to say

seven

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
6.1.29  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XDm9mm @6.1.25    3 weeks ago

A POLICE state?  Keep it up.  I'm beginning to think from what I've been seeing and reading lately that the people of China are more civilized than the people in America.  I enjoy absolutely all the freedom I want and need.  And so does everyone around me who I know.  

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
6.1.30  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XDm9mm @6.1.25    3 weeks ago
"...join the people of the civilized world."

LOL.  Although China has been described as having 5000 years of historical civilization, at least 2600 years have been proven.

You just made me think of what Benjamin D'Israeli responded to Gladstone's insult to his Judaism:  "While your ancestors were paintng themselves blue and hiding in caves, mine were worshipping one God."  To another who had insulted his religion, he changed the ending remark to ".. mine were priests in the Temple of Solomon."

 
 
 
Sparty On
6.1.31  Sparty On  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @6.1.30    3 weeks ago
LOL.  Although China has been described as having 5000 years of historical civilization, at least 2600 years have been proven.

LOL?   You think China's totalitarian/repressive regime today is funny?  

German history goes back a couple thousand years as well does that excuse their more recent foray into mass genocide of your people?

Related to the Chinese government today, you are defending the indefensible.

The only question really is why you insist on doing so.

 
 
 
Sparty On
6.1.32  Sparty On  replied to  Thomas @6.1.19    3 weeks ago

Nah, Slate Rock and Gravel Company would likely be more timeline appropriate.

jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
6.1.33  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sparty On @6.1.31    3 weeks ago

I don't DEFEND the Chinese government, all I have been doing is correcting misconceptions and intentional misinformation.

Where did I say that China's regime was funny?  I was laughing at you.  I no longer dialogue with people who put words in my mouth.

 
 
 
Sparty On
6.1.34  Sparty On  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @6.1.33    3 weeks ago

You weren’t laughing at me.    It wasn’t my comment.    

That said, any supposition that you DON’T regularly DEFEND China here is the really funny thing.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
6.1.35  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sparty On @6.1.34    3 weeks ago

I'm not at all surprised that you consider my correcting your misconceptions and conspiracy theories to be defending your target.  That would be the same as my saying Trump has 6 fingers on each hand, you're saying no only 5, and then my saying you're defending Trump.   

 
 
 
Sparty On
6.1.36  Sparty On  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @6.1.35    3 weeks ago

I stopped reading at "you and your kind."

With that mentality, nothing that follows is likely worth reading .....

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
6.1.37  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sparty On @6.1.36    3 weeks ago

I apologize, and have removed the offensive words.  I do suggest you read the rest.  I think that I'm correct in what I said, although I'm sure you'll never admit it.  I admit when I'm wrong, I even apologize when I've said something I should not have, but I really don't expect that kind of integrity from many others.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
6.1.38  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @6.1.37    3 weeks ago

oh stop, Sparty is now claiming the snowflake defense, and was offended,...,please

 
 
 
Sparty On
6.1.39  Sparty On  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @6.1.37    3 weeks ago

Thanks Buzz, accepted.   I know it can get a little "intense" on this topic but it really surprised me that you used that kind of "charged" language.  

I suppose you didn't "directly" defend China either so my apologies as well for inferring that you did.   That said your speech here regularly does defend China indirectly and sometimes directly.   I just don't understand that.

The latest is China is now allegedly trying to hack our work on vaccines.   Perhaps they should just cooperate with the international effort on such and maybe the work would be given to them freely.   Honestly, I'm not sure how we can trust anything about China these days when stuff like that is going on and that is unfortunate.   Not the way i wish it was at all.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
6.1.40  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @6.1.37    3 weeks ago

Question. How did you remove the words in a 13 hour old post?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
6.1.41  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @6.1.40    3 weeks ago

Because of my job on NT checking out new users and deleting spammers I have moderator powers, but I don't use them to moderate members' comments.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
6.1.42  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sparty On @6.1.39    3 weeks ago

Surely you've seen that I've been critical of China, but I've also seen so much false news (much of it to benefit Trump's position for reelection and that which has the design to deflect from Trump's own mishandling), I'm not quick to jump on every criticism until I'm personally satisfied that it's true.  I think you can admit that there have been reversals of such misinformation.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
6.1.43  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  igknorantzrulz @6.1.38    3 weeks ago

Your support is appreciated, believe me, but I am really not a member of either partisan political group in America, and as a person who had complained that nasty comments chase away potential new members from this site I should not be using them myself. 

 
 
 
Krishna
6.1.44  Krishna  replied to  Sparty On @6.1.2    3 weeks ago

And again, if people are stupid enough to follow stupid ideas then natural selection may take its course.

Your incredible compassion for your fellow human beings is indeed underwhelming! 

 
 
 
Sparty On
6.1.45  Sparty On  replied to  Krishna @6.1.44    2 weeks ago

Yawn ......

Compassion has nothing to do with it, you just can’t fix stupid.

But it does always crack me up how selectively bleeding hearts do bleed.    Pick and choose, pick and choose based only on preferred narrative baby.    

Oh yeah!

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
6.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6    3 weeks ago

My BIL just shared that video but You Tube has taken it down. She was jailed for stealing lab notes and equipment after she was fired.

 
 
 
Citizen Kane-473667
6.2.1  Citizen Kane-473667  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.2    3 weeks ago
My BIL just shared that video but You Tube has taken it down

YouTube has been working overtime to remove videos that don't fit The Agenda .jrSmiley_82_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
6.2.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Citizen Kane-473667 @6.2.1    3 weeks ago

It was a conspiracy theory not rooted in any fact. It doesn't surprise me that my BIL posted it. He reads something that fits his agenda and believes it and won't do any research beyond that. Then he gets Mr Giggles believing it, too. Then I have to educate the whole damn family

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
6.2.3  sandy-2021492  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.2    3 weeks ago

The thing that really bugs me is that I see teachers and healthcare workers sharing this stuff on my FB feed.  We have gullible people who are apparently unable to reason teaching our kids.  I suppose that is as good an explanation as any for why this shit keeps making the rounds.  The healthcare workers should know better, too - they're supposed to be more informed about science than the general population.  Some aren't, though.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
6.2.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.2.3    3 weeks ago

With that little thing I mentioned about my BIL, my daughter posted something from Snopes about Judy Mikovits. The boys had nothing to say after that. Mr Giggles will believe anything my daughter tells him but questions everything I tell him

p.s. she is smarter than me

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
6.2.5  sandy-2021492  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.2.4    3 weeks ago

You're smart, and you understand science.  He should trust you to...understand science.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
6.2.6  Trout Giggles  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.2.5    3 weeks ago

He does it just to get a rise out of me

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
6.2.7  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.2.6    3 weeks ago

as long as he gets a rise out of you gettin a rise...

sounds like everyone is having Cake, and you can eat it too

i like ice scream cake myself, Carvel, cause i'm cold that way

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
6.2.8  Trout Giggles  replied to  igknorantzrulz @6.2.7    3 weeks ago

Do you have a DQ nearby? If so, get one of their Butterfinger cakes

 
 
 
XDm9mm
6.2.9  XDm9mm  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.2.8    3 weeks ago
If so, get one of their Butterfinger cakes

Hell no.  An M&M Blizzard thank you very much!!

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
6.2.10  sandy-2021492  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.2.6    3 weeks ago

Hmph jrSmiley_32_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
6.2.11  Trout Giggles  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.2.10    3 weeks ago

After 30 years of marriage there are things you accept. I know I do things that irritate him

lol

 
 
 
Krishna
6.2.12  Krishna  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.2.3    3 weeks ago
The healthcare workers should know better, too - they're supposed to be more informed about science than the general population.

Although OTOH, being a bit more informed than the general population still isn't saying much...

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7  XDm9mm    3 weeks ago
Halazun has since stopped engaging with the trolls on Facebook, some of whom claimed that "the hospitals are empty"

Hey there Doc.   While the institution YOU'RE practicing in is obviously not empty, some of those people you "engage with", "trolls" as you call them,  don't necessarily live or work in your area and in point of fact, the hospital in the area they live in might not only be empty, but closed due to the paranoia surrounding this situation.

So yeah, Doc, there are in fact "hospitals are empty" claims that are quite valid. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
7.1  Sparty On  replied to  XDm9mm @7    3 weeks ago

Its kind funny really.   I got my fill of Facebook after about six months and dropped it.   It was not a life altering event.   Not even close.

Years later i'm thinking about getting back on for family and friends.   Probably will for sure when i retire.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.1.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Sparty On @7.1    3 weeks ago
Its kind funny really.   I got my fill of Facebook after about six months and dropped it.   It was not a life altering event.   Not even close. Years later i'm thinking about getting back on for family and friends.   Probably will for sure when i retire.

It's funny.  Years back, when I worked for a government agency, we were told when we took the oath, we were NOT to start a facebook account, doing so could be grounds for immediate termination.  I discovered later that all 'applicants' were screened and any found to have a FB account were removed from consideration and the process stopped.  Today, with the proliferation of that trash, they're encouraged to get an account only to not look 'out of place' and a potential target.   (It also serves a secondary purpose for security to see what 'employees' are saying and if they might pose a security risk to themselves or other employees or assets.)

I do have one only with my name and High School for old friends to find me, and since it's the medium of choice for the HOA here to get 'community news', which ain't much.

 
 
 
Krishna
7.2  Krishna  replied to  XDm9mm @7    3 weeks ago
Hey there Doc.   While the institution YOU'RE practicing in is obviously not empty, some of those people you "engage with", "trolls" as you call them,  don't necessarily live or work in your area and in point of fact, the hospital in the area they live in might not only be empty, but closed due to the paranoia surrounding this situation. So yeah, Doc, there are in fact "hospitals are empty" claims that are quite valid. 

That may be about to change significantly:

Coronavirus Cases Are On The Rise In Texas And Other States That Reopened Early

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
8  Paula Bartholomew    3 weeks ago

MEMO TO DR. HALAZUN - You just keep on saving lives when you can and ignore the idiots.  We, the sane, need you and your counterparts so don't give up on us or yourself.

 
 
 
Veronica
9  Veronica    3 weeks ago

I really feel for the medical personnel at the medical center that I work at.  After seeing what they see all day long and not being able to discuss it with anyone has got to be hard.  And then to try to relax by going on a social media page and be bombarded with the negativity about them has got to be disheartening.  

I get told that I should provide real data to support that this is not a hoax when in fact that is illegal.  When you work at a medical facility it is illegal for you to discuss what you see or hear.  It is not worth losing a job or career by posting examples and stats to someone who most likely wouldn't believe you anyway, BUT would be quick to turn you in.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
9.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Veronica @9    3 weeks ago
When you work at a medical facility it is illegal for you to discuss what you see or hear.

To the best of my knowledge, one can discuss generalities and even give details as long as it does not divulge personal identities.  I admit that at times that is a fine line to walk, but I don't believe generalities are illegal.

However, having said that, most medical professionals don't speak of what they have seen much like cops don't speak about their jobs and people in war zones don't speak about what they encounter.  More often than not, the people being told would likely not deal with the facts very well and would be repulsed by specifics.   I know I have never told anyone in my family some of the things I witnessed and encountered while working in our recent war zones.  I did discuss them with coworkers who experienced the same things, but none of us wanted to burden our families or friends with the details.

 
 
 
Veronica
9.1.1  Veronica  replied to  XDm9mm @9.1    3 weeks ago
To the best of my knowledge,

Working at a medical facility myself, we are not allowed to speak of what we see or hear PERIOD.  Or we can lose our jobs.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
9.1.2  XDm9mm  replied to  Veronica @9.1.1    3 weeks ago
Working at a medical facility myself, we are not allowed to speak of what we see or hear PERIOD.  Or we can lose our jobs.

Ok....  got it.  Institution requirements.   Not government illegal.

That notwithstanding, would you really want to discuss with family or friends what you see and endure at work?   I know from personal experience, I do my best to protect family and friends from that.  Hell, I have a good friend who to this day will not discuss much about his time in Nam.  I have a very good idea why since I've been able to piece together what he has divulged and know the time he was there, what unit he was in, and some other snippets of information he has slipped over the years and can understand his desire to keep it deeply buried or as I call it compartmentalized.

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
9.1.3  Dean Moriarty  replied to  Veronica @9.1.1    3 weeks ago

Wanna bet five bucks this doctor isn’t going to lose his job even though he is speaking about what he sees and hears at work?

 
 
 
Split Personality
9.1.4  Split Personality  replied to  XDm9mm @9.1.2    3 weeks ago

It all violates HIPAA in one sense or another.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
9.1.5  XDm9mm  replied to  Split Personality @9.1.4    3 weeks ago
It all violates HIPAA in one sense or another.

Only when actual patient confidentiality is ignored.  General terms are ok as long as individuals are not identified, at least per my niece's husband who is a MD.  (We got into that discussion when "ebola" was all the rage.)

 
 
 
Sparty On
9.2  Sparty On  replied to  Veronica @9    3 weeks ago

This guy sounds like he should really take a break.

If he's taking things he's reading online this personal he's not dealing very well at all.   It's the internet for cripe sakes.  

Letting that get to you like this is not a good sign psychologically.    Not good at all.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
9.2.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Sparty On @9.2    3 weeks ago
This guy sounds like he should really take a break.

A couple of weeks away to unwind is in line.

If he's taking things he's reading online this personal he's not dealing very well at all.   It's the internet for cripe sakes.  

Unfortunately, to some, the internet is like their second life.  Hell, if some of the people today were forced to put their devices away and stop texting, they would likely go into a serious depression.   It's the ONLY form of communication some even know considering I've seen groups texting each other instead of talking to the person SITTING RIGHT NEXT TO THEM!!

Letting that get to you like this is not a good sign psychologically.    Not good at all.

He needs to relieve the stress.  There are ways to do that which are actually exceptional and need not involve others unless you want it to.  He should be talking to the hospital shrink forthwith.

 
 
 
Sparty On
9.2.2  Sparty On  replied to  XDm9mm @9.2.1    3 weeks ago
He should be talking to the hospital shrink forthwith.

Yep, that is if this is for real and not just for partisan effect.  

A lot of that going around these days.

 
 
 
Citizen Kane-473667
10  Citizen Kane-473667    3 weeks ago

Okay Doc, I can imagine you are a little frustrated by the Conspiracy nutcases out there, but exactly which ones are we discussing here???  The ones who say the masks actually aren't really all that effective ? No idea where they got THAT idea. Or the ones saying that the Covid-19 death rates are being artificially inflated ? Politifact would love you to believe this is a false statement , but not only has a doctor revealed it to be true , but it was also admitted by the head of the IDHS (can't find the video fast enough) . Honestly I believe that many cases that should be counted aren't because of a lack of testing, while many cases that ARE being counted, shouldn't be. So again, I wonder where they got the idea??? Not to mention we are hearing that some patients who should be helped are not being given treatment and are being left to die needlessly !

No wonder you're hearing so much Doc. It looks like we can't trust anyone these days to give us the straight answers. Certainly not the Government, and certainly not the media!!!

 
 
 
The People's Fish, Still "Hand Of The Queen"
11  The People's Fish, Still "Hand Of The Queen"    3 weeks ago

This article is a steaming pile of garbage. Ben Collins is a political hack who shoe horns every story into a vast right wing conspiracy. Can we start getting at least center left or center right articles for the article of the day instead of articles authored by Russia Hoax promoting political hacks?

Ben Collins is known for creating conspiracies out of the air and selling them as a huge problem. It's his actual job for the rag he writes for.

 
 
 
KDMichigan
11.1  KDMichigan  replied to  The People's Fish, Still "Hand Of The Queen" @11    3 weeks ago

Don't forget all them QAnon folks...I  never heard much of them unless it is coming from Left wingers who get their panties in a wad over them. Now we have a latin dance as a threat also.

 
 
 
Ender
12  Ender    3 weeks ago

You beat me to it. I was going to post this.

Amazing the bullshit and lies people peddle and believe.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
12.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Ender @12    3 weeks ago

They have had at least 4 years practice.

 
 
 
Ender
12.1.1  Ender  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @12.1    3 weeks ago

Tell people the news is fake long enough and some start to believe it.

 
 
 
Ender
12.1.3  Ender  replied to  KDMichigan @12.1.2    3 weeks ago

So using the blaze and the crackpots at project veritas in order to promote the notion of fake news.

Oh the irony.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
12.1.5  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Ender @12.1.1    3 weeks ago
Tell people the news is fake long enough and some start to believe it.

fake the news long enough and people start to ignore it.

 
 
 
Ender
12.1.6  Ender  replied to  KDMichigan @12.1.4    3 weeks ago

No matter how many times you say it or even if they did embellish a photo, it does not change the facts that are out there.

Most people get their news from their local stations.

 
 
 
Ender
12.1.7  Ender  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @12.1.5    3 weeks ago

Hasn't seemed to stop fox.

 
 
 
Citizen Kane-473667
12.1.8  Citizen Kane-473667  replied to  Ender @12.1.7    3 weeks ago
 
 
 
MrFrost
13  MrFrost    2 weeks ago

If it's safe to open the country and expose kids and American's to corona virus, why is it UNsafe for Manafort to finish his sentence in prison because of corona virus? 

 
 
 
pat wilson
13.1  pat wilson  replied to  MrFrost @13    2 weeks ago

Excellent question.

 
 
 
MrFrost
13.1.1  MrFrost  replied to  pat wilson @13.1    2 weeks ago

Thanks

 
 
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