EU May Ban Travel from US as it Reopens Borders, Citing Coronavirus Failures

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  sister-mary-agnes-ample-bottom  •  2 weeks ago  •  85 comments

By:   MSN

EU May Ban Travel from US as it Reopens Borders, Citing Coronavirus Failures
BRUSSELS — European Union countries rushing to revive their economies and reopen their borders after months of coronavirus restrictions are prepared to block Americans from entering because the United States has failed to control the scourge, according to draft lists of acceptable travelers seen by The New York Times. That prospect, which would lump American visitors in with Russians and Brazilians as unwelcome, is a stinging blow to American...

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



EU May Ban Travel from US as it Reopens Borders, Citing Coronavirus Failures

BRUSSELS — European Union countries rushing to revive their economies and reopen their borders after months of coronavirus restrictions are prepared to block Americans from entering because the United States has failed to control the scourge, according to draft lists of acceptable travelers seen by The New York Times.

That prospect, which would lump American visitors in with Russians and Brazilians as unwelcome, is a stinging blow to American prestige in the world and a repudiation of President Trump's handling of the virus in the United States, which has more than 2.3 million cases and upward of 120,000 deaths, more than any other country.

European nations are currently haggling over two potential lists of acceptable visitors based on how countries are faring with the coronavirus pandemic. Both include China, as well as developing nations like Uganda, Cuba and Vietnam.

Travelers from the United States and the rest of the world have been excluded from visiting the European Union — with few exceptions mostly for repatriations or "essential travel" —- since mid-March. But a final decision on reopening the borders is expected early next week, before the bloc reopens on July 1.

A prohibition of Americans by Brussels partly reflects the shifting pattern of the pandemic. In March, when Europe was the epicenter, Mr. Trump infuriated European leaders when he banned citizens from most European Union countries from traveling to America. Mr. Trump justified the move as necessary to protect the United States, which at the time had roughly 1,100 coronavirus cases and 38 deaths.

In late May and early June, Mr. Trump said Europe was "making progress" and hinted that some restrictions would be lifted soon, but nothing has happened since then. Today, Europe has largely curbed the outbreak, even as the United States, the worst-afflicted, has seen more infection surges just in the past week..

Prohibiting American travelers from entering the European Union would have significant economic, cultural and geopolitical ramifications. Millions of American tourists visit Europe every summer. Business travel is common, given the huge economic ties between the United States and the E.U.

The draft lists were shared with the Times by an official involved in the talks and confirmed by another official involved in the talks. Two additional European Union officials confirmed the content of the lists as well the details of the negotiations to shape and finalize them. All of the officials gave the information on condition of anonymity because the issue is politically delicate.

The forging of a common list of outsiders who can enter the bloc is part of an effort by the European Union to fully reopen internal borders among its 27 member states. Free travel and trade among members is a core principle of the bloc — one that has been badly disrupted during the pandemic.

Since the outbreak, the bloc has succumbed to piecemeal national policies that have resulted in an incoherent patchwork of open and closed borders.

Some internal borders have practically remained closed while others have opened. Some member states that desperately need tourists have rushed ahead to accept non-E.U. visitors and pledged to test them on arrival. Others have tried to create closed travel zones between certain countries, called "bubbles" or "corridors."

Putting these safe lists together highlights the fraught, messy task of removing pandemic-related measures and unifying the bloc's approach. But the imperatives of restoring the internal harmony of the E.U. and slowly opening up to the world is paramount, even if it threatens rifts with close allies including the United States, which appears bound to be excluded, at least initially.

President Trump, as well as his Russian and Brazilian counterparts, Vladimir V. Putin and Jair Bolsonaro, have followed what critics call a comparable path in their pandemic response that leaves all three countries in a similarly bad spot: they were dismissive at the outset of the crisis, slow to respond to scientific advice and saw a boom of domestic cases as other parts of the world, notably in Europe and Asia, were slowly managing to get their outbreaks under control.

Countries on the E.U. draft lists have been selected as safe based on a combination of epidemiological criteria. The benchmark is the E.U. average number of new infections — over the past 14 days — per 100,000 people, which is currently 16 for the bloc. The comparable number for the United States is 107, while Brazil's is 190 and Russia's is 80, according to a Times database.

Once diplomats agree on a final list, it will be presented as a recommendation early next week before July 1. The E.U. can't force members to adopt it, but European officials warn that failure of any of the 27 members to stick to it could lead to the reintroduction of borders within the bloc.

The reason this exercise is additionally complex for Europe is that, if internal borders are open but member states don't honor the same rules, visitors from nonapproved nations could land in one European country, and then jump onward to other E.U. nations undetected.

European officials said the list would be revised every two weeks to reflect new realities around the world as nations see the virus ebb and flow.

The process of agreeing on it has been challenging, with diplomats from all European member states hunkering down for multiple hourslong meetings for the past few weeks.

As of Tuesday, the officials and diplomats were poring over two versions of the safe list under debate, and were scheduled to meet again on Wednesday to continue sparring over the details.

One list contains 47 countries and includes only those nations with an infection rate lower than the E.U. average. The other longer list has 54 countries and also includes those nations with slightly worse case rates than the E.U. average, going up to 20 new cases per 100,000 people.

The existing restrictions on nonessential travel to all 27 member states plus Switzerland, Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein were introduced on March 16 and extended twice until July 1, in a bid to contain the virus as the continent entered a three-month long confinement.

"Discussions are happening very intensively," to reach consensus in time for July 1, said Adalbert Jahnz, a spokesman for the European Commission, the bloc's executive branch. He called the process "frankly, a full-time job."

The E.U. agency for infectious diseases, the European Center for Disease Prevention and Control, warned negotiators that the case numbers were so dependent on the level of truthfulness and testing in each country, that it was hard to vouch for them, officials taking part in the talks said.

China, for example, has been accused of withholding information and manipulating the numbers of infections released to the public. In parts of the developing world, case numbers are very low, but it's hard to determine whether they paint an accurate picture given limited testing.

And in the United States, comments made by President Trump at a rally in Tulsa over the weekend highlighted how easy it is to manipulate a country's case numbers, as he suggested that domestic testing was too broad.

"When you do testing to that extent, you're gonna find more people you're gonna find more cases. So I said to my people slow the testing down, please," Mr. Trump told supporters.

European embassies around the world could be enlisted to help verify or opine on the data provided that would inform the final list, negotiators said, another indication that the list could end up being quite short if European diplomats at embassies said reported numbers were unreliable.

Many European Union countries are desperate to reopen their borders to visitors from outside the region to salvage tourism and boost airlines' revenue while keeping their own borders open to each other. Some have already started accepting visitors from outside the bloc.

At the other extreme, a few European nations including Denmark are not prepared to allow any external visitors from non-E.U. countries, and are likely to continue with this policy after July 1.

Germany, France and many other E.U. nations want non-European travelers to be allowed, but are also worried about individual countries tweaking the safe list or admitting travelers from excluded countries, officials said.


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Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
1  seeder  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom    2 weeks ago

I don't blame them.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @1    2 weeks ago

Neither do I

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
1.1.1  seeder  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1    2 weeks ago

So happy you are back!

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @1.1.1    2 weeks ago

Thank-you! I'm currently scratching at my peeling skin

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
1.1.3  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.2    2 weeks ago

Don't you mean scales...?

Welcome back!

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1.1.3    2 weeks ago

Correction...my scales!

Thanks!

 
 
 
JaneDoe
2  JaneDoe    2 weeks ago

My son was just telling me about this. 

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
2.1  seeder  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  JaneDoe @2    2 weeks ago

It was reported on CNN a little while ago.  I was waiting for an article to pop up.

One thing is certain:  Trump is going to have a flaming snit, and embarrass the entire country.

 
 
 
JaneDoe
2.1.1  JaneDoe  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @2.1    2 weeks ago

Indeed he may. They have to do what they think is best for them.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
2.1.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @2.1    2 weeks ago

That would make him a total hypocrite (what else is new) as he has banned people from China from coming here for the same reason.

 
 
 
Krishna
2.1.3  Krishna  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @2.1.2    2 weeks ago

What goes around comes around!

 
 
 
Krishna
2.1.4  Krishna  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @2.1    2 weeks ago
Trump is going to have a flaming snit

Yes.

In fact " Many People " are starting to call him a "whiny bitch"!

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
2.1.5  seeder  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Krishna @2.1.4    2 weeks ago
In fact " Many People " are starting to call him a "whiny bitch"!

He was born that way.

 
 
 
It Is ME
3  It Is ME    2 weeks ago

That should get their economy going !

 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.1  XDm9mm  replied to  It Is ME @3    2 weeks ago
That should get their economy going !

Yeah.....   they can welcome back the Communist Chinese that started this shit to begin with!!   Karma baby, karma.

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.1.1  It Is ME  replied to  XDm9mm @3.1    2 weeks ago

Keeping there enemies CLOSER I suppose.

 
 
 
Heartland American
3.2  Heartland American  replied to  It Is ME @3    2 weeks ago

This is the perfect opportunity to threaten to end NATO and withdraw American military from all countries that actually follow trough with that 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.2.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Heartland American @3.2    2 weeks ago
This is the perfect opportunity to threaten to end NATO

I entirely disagree.  NATO is useful to keep an eye on Germany using the pretense of helping against any aggression from the old USSR now Russia.  It was after all TWICE that we bailed out Europe from German aggression and Germany is once again, very likely the most formidable of the European forces.

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
3.2.2  seeder  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Heartland American @3.2    2 weeks ago

Sorry dear, but Donald Trump will never put his personal foreign financial interests in jeopardy.  He can threaten, but that's where the action ends.

 
 
 
Heartland American
3.2.3  Heartland American  replied to  XDm9mm @3.2.1    2 weeks ago

I have no desire to pull our Military out of the UK or The Baltic States, Poland, other old Warsaw Pact nations like Hungary, Romania, and the Czech Republic.  They are most likely targets of Russian or German aggression.   Italy is likely next after the UK to leave the EU so I’d keep a presence there.  

 
 
 
Krishna
3.2.4  Krishna  replied to  Heartland American @3.2    2 weeks ago
This is the perfect opportunity to threaten to end NATO and withdraw American military from all countries that actually follow trough with that 

And let Trump's Russian Puppet-master (Putin) conquer our allies by use of force?

 
 
 
Krishna
3.2.5  Krishna  replied to  Heartland American @3.2    2 weeks ago
This is the perfect opportunity to threaten to end NATO and withdraw American military from all countries that actually follow trough with that 

And let Trump's Russian Puppet-master (Putin) conquer our allies by use of force?

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
3.2.6  seeder  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Krishna @3.2.5    2 weeks ago
And let Trump's Russian Puppet-master (Putin) conquer our allies by use of force?

Important enough to state twice!  

 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.2.7  XDm9mm  replied to  Krishna @3.2.4    2 weeks ago
And let Trump's Russian Puppet-master (Putin) conquer our allies by use of force?

Hardly.  It's Obama that was the cock licker to Putin when he failed to provide the LETHAL AIDE to the Ukraine as President Trump has.  Or have you forgotten that?  Maybe he was emulating the other dick licker Bush when he stood by while Russia invaded Georgia.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.2.8  XDm9mm  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @3.2.6    2 weeks ago
Important enough to state twice!  

And be refuted TWICE!!

Hardly.  It's Obama that was the cock licker to Putin when he failed to provide the LETHAL AIDE to the Ukraine as President Trump has.  Or have you forgotten that?  Maybe he was emulating the other dick licker Bush when he stood by while Russia invaded Georgia.
 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.2.9  XDm9mm  replied to  Heartland American @3.2.3    2 weeks ago
Italy is likely next after the UK to leave the EU so I’d keep a presence there.

Actually, France and Italy were pretty good allies, after GB and Australia, during our fights in the ME.   Germany?  They did shit and claimed hero status. 

 
 
 
Krishna
3.2.10  Krishna  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @3.2.2    2 weeks ago
Sorry dear, but Donald Trump will never put his personal foreign financial interests in jeopardy.  He can threaten, but that's where the action ends.

Exactly!

Its yet another example of his mental condition (which , BTW, should be always referred to by its proper name: "Trump's Derangement Syndrome").

 
 
 
Ronin2
3.2.11  Ronin2  replied to  Krishna @3.2.4    2 weeks ago

Let Europeans actually build and maintain a military large enough to defend themselves? What am I thinking! How dare I demand Europeans defend themselves while bilking the US economically!

Europe needs to be scared; and Biden is an Establishment tool. China, Europe, and Russia won't fear him at all. That is if his wife and handlers ever let him out of the basement long enough to be sworn in should he win the election.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
3.2.12  Trout Giggles  replied to  Heartland American @3.2.3    2 weeks ago

I didn't think we had troops in Poland, the Baltic States, or any of the old Warsaw Pact countries.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
3.2.13  FLYNAVY1  replied to  XDm9mm @3.2.9    2 weeks ago

Need to think back and ponder your statement.  West Germany took delivery of the Pershing II missiles, much against what the civilian government wanted.  West Germany knew that if things went bad, their country was going to be obliterated from end to end.  The Fulda Gap.  One of the most heavily fortified areas in all of Europe.

Cut the Germans some slack as they were on the front line of the Cold War from day one.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
3.2.14  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.2.12    2 weeks ago

We do, just not in the numbers they were back in the 1980s.  There is still quite a bit of "hardward" forward deployed there too.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
3.2.15  Trout Giggles  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.2.14    2 weeks ago

We had actual troops in Warsaw Pact countries???? How did the Soviets stand for that?

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
3.2.16  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.2.15    2 weeks ago

Poland at least.....

 
 
 
Krishna
3.2.17  Krishna  replied to  XDm9mm @3.2.7    2 weeks ago
Hardly.  It's Obama

As I'm sure you are aware, Obama hasn't held office for some time!

(Love him or hate him-- he no longer has the power of the presidency). But Trump does . . .

320

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
3.2.18  Trout Giggles  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.2.16    2 weeks ago

Ya learn something new everyday. Thanks, Fly

 
 
 
Nerm_L
4  Nerm_L    2 weeks ago

Sounds like a good idea.  Can we make it permanent?

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
4.1  seeder  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Nerm_L @4    2 weeks ago
Can we make it permanent?

Why would you want that?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @4.1    2 weeks ago

I really want to visit Europe some day

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
4.1.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.1.1    2 weeks ago

I want to visit Scotland.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
4.1.3  XDm9mm  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @4.1.2    2 weeks ago
I want to visit Scotland.

Scotland is part of Great Britain and not part of the EU.   Visit away!!

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.1.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @4.1.2    2 weeks ago

I want to go to Wales, Hungary, and the Czech Republic. I have no Eastern European roots but I hear there are some awesome castles along the rivers

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
4.1.5  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.1.4    2 weeks ago

Split, Dubrovnik, and Budapest.... all fantastic cities in Eastern Europe.  St. Petersburg, Russia is another one to visit. Catherine's Palace, The Hermitage,  See those if you can too.

So much to see.... so little time.  Travel all you can!

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.1.6  Trout Giggles  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @4.1.5    2 weeks ago

I was thinking Prague in the Czech Republic but definitely Budapest.

There has to be a Nanty Glo somewhere in Wales. Nanty Glo was a small coal mining town to our east and where we do some occasional grocery shopping. But if I can find a town named that in Wales, I'm going!

 
 
 
Krishna
4.1.8  Krishna  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @4.1    2 weeks ago
Why would you want that?

I \'ve always wondered about that.

Perhaps there are some people who are merely uninformed-- or perhaps there are even a few who prefer totalitarianism over democracy? (I really don't know...)

 
 
 
Krishna
4.1.9  Krishna  replied to  XDm9mm @4.1.3    2 weeks ago
Scotland is part of Great Britain and not part of the EU. 

She didn't say "EU"... she said "Europe". Scotland-- and in fact all of great Britain-- is in the continent of Europe! (If you don't believe it, check a map :-)

 
 
 
XDm9mm
4.1.10  XDm9mm  replied to  Krishna @4.1.9    2 weeks ago
She didn't say "EU"... she said "Europe".

Oop's, my bad.

Scotland-- and in fact all of great Britain-- is in the continent of Europe! (If you don't believe it, check a map

Yes you should.  Great Britain is on the continental shelf, but that land bridge that connected them about 6500 years ago no longer exists and Great Britain is essentially a gathering of island nations.

Maybe you should ask an Englishman if he's European.   That would be like asking a Sicilian if he's Italian.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
4.1.11  XDm9mm  replied to  Krishna @4.1.9    2 weeks ago
Scotland is part of Great Britain and not part of the EU. 
She didn't say "EU"... she said "Europe".

I apologize for my previous erroneous response to you at 4.1.10.

I just realized my error in that post.  I was noting that she could visit Scotland as it is NOT//NOT part of the EU as per the article headline.

EU May Ban Travel From US As It Reopens Borders,

Ergo, my original post stands to Paula.

VISIT AWAY.  Scotland is NOT//NOT part of the EU.

 
 
 
Krishna
4.1.12  Krishna  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.1.4    2 weeks ago
I want to go to Wales, Hungary, and the Czech Republic. I have no Eastern European roots but I hear there are some awesome castles along the rivers

There are travel companies that specialize in various tours of Europe-- all by riverboat. The boat makes stops at a few points of especial interest. (Each tour specializes in a different "theme". There is at least one that stops at places which have the most interesting castles)

A friend of mine who travels a lot took one. She said it was one of the best tours she's ever taken. (She said was expensive-- but worth it)

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.1.13  Trout Giggles  replied to  Krishna @4.1.12    2 weeks ago

That's the tour I want to take! Riverboat! I wonder if I could do some fishing along the way?

 
 
 
Krishna
4.1.14  Krishna  replied to  XDm9mm @4.1.10    2 weeks ago

Maybe you should ask an Englishman if he's European.

I have..on numerous occasions.

If they are well informed, they will tell you that in terms of continents, Britain is in the continent of Europe. And in addition, many do not identify as being culturally European.

(Of course by the same token, many people do not feel that they are "part" of the continent that they live in..or in some cases they don't even identify with the country-- for example the Catalans and Basques in Spain...and numerous minorities in much of the Arab world.).

I also wonder how many Israelis identify with they continent they live in (Asia).

And then there's the tricky question of the Turks-- and the Russians. (Who are, I believe, the only two countries who share an unusual trait).

 
 
 
Krishna
4.1.15  Krishna  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.1.13    2 weeks ago
That's the tour I want to take! Riverboat! I wonder if I could do some fishing along the way?

I've never heard of it, and I've never seen it in the attractions listed in their brochures. People who are really into fishing (of any sort) probably could find much better places as these tours mainly travel on rivers that flow through big cities). In addition, most meals are included.

However, I suppose its possible!

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
4.1.16  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Krishna @4.1.14    2 weeks ago

I think the whole point here was that it is the EU that is mulling it of which Britain is no longer a member. And that is what the subject of the article is.JMO

 
 
 
Krishna
4.2  Krishna  replied to  Nerm_L @4    2 weeks ago
Sounds like a good idea.  Can we make it permanent?

He who forgets the past is doomed to repeat it...

(Perhaps some folks here are hoping that Trump's Russian Puppet-masters will be enabled to conquer our democratic European allies if we stab them in the back?)

Nazi Blitzkrieg Conquers Europe:

384

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
4.2.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Krishna @4.2    2 weeks ago

Look, they're all wearing the MAGA hats of their time. MGGA hats to be precise.

 
 
 
Krishna
4.2.2  Krishna  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.2.1    2 weeks ago
Look, they're all wearing the MAGA hats of their time. MGGA hats to be precise.

Actually that was Hitler's appeal...he wanted to Make Germany Great Again. (They suffered financially after WWI...)

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
4.2.3  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Krishna @4.2.2    2 weeks ago
that was Hitler's appeal

And interestingly, dirty Donald exhibits many of the same personality traits of which Hitler was also diagnosed.

Narcissistic personality disorder

Dangerous leader disorder

Sadistic personality disorder

Abnormal brain lateralization

Schizotypal personality disorder

Hysteria, histrionic personality disorder

Schizophrenia, paranoia

Psychopathy, antisocial personality disorder

Asperger syndrome

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathography_of_Adolf_Hitler

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
4.2.4  seeder  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.2.1    2 weeks ago
Look, they're all wearing the MAGA hats of their time. MGGA hats to be precise.

I was going to say that!

 
 
 
Nerm_L
4.2.5  Nerm_L  replied to  Krishna @4.2    2 weeks ago
He who forgets the past is doomed to repeat it...

Yep.  We couldn't keep the Nazi liberal socialists out of the United States.  Let's not repeat that mistake.

256

BTW, the photo was taken in New York, 1937.

 
 
 
Krishna
4.2.6  Krishna  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.2.3    2 weeks ago

And interestingly, dirty Donald exhibits many of the same personality traits of which Hitler was also diagnosed.

Narcissistic personality disorder

Dangerous leader disorder

Sadistic personality disorder

Abnormal brain lateralization

Schizotypal personality disorder

Hysteria, histrionic personality disorder

Schizophrenia, paranoia

Psychopathy, antisocial personality disorder

Asperger syndrome

I can tell you that "Many people are saying" that there's one term that sums up his condition, including all his various bizarre symptoms in just one phrase: its called Trump's Derangement Syndrome.

Believe me its YUGE-- that I can tell you!

All of us on NT should all remember to use that exact phrase as often as possible-- it would make communications here much clearer . . . and would therefore please truth-seekers here, people of all political stripes. 

Remember the apostrophe s ('s)-- its: Trump's Derangement Syndrome.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
4.2.7  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Krishna @4.2.6    2 weeks ago

Hitler had a bunker too and look how that ended.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
4.2.8  Raven Wing  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @4.2.7    2 weeks ago

Now Trump is head hunting to find out who leaked that he went into his bunker. Like it is some big secret. It  just proves how scared he was that he went there, and that does not fit the picture of bravado he like to promote about himself.

 
 
 
MUVA
4.2.9  MUVA  replied to  Raven Wing @4.2.8    2 weeks ago

You realize he doesn’t make the decision right the secret service does?

 
 
 
Krishna
4.2.10  Krishna  replied to  Nerm_L @4.2.5    2 weeks ago
BTW, the photo was taken in New York, 1937.

I think you have a rather bizarre definition of liberal!

During that period, the German American Bund-- an organization of nazi sympathizers, and other far-right organizations, great fans of Hiltler, were fairly prevalent in the U.S.

They even had several popular summer camps:

Camp Siegfried , a summer camp which taught  Nazi  ideology, was located in  Yaphank, New York  on  Long Island . [1] [2] [3]  It was owned by the  German American Bund , an American Nazi organization devoted to promoting a favorable view of  Nazi Germany , and was operated by the German American Settlement League (GASL). Camp Siegfried was one of many such camps in the US in the 1930s, including Camp Hindenberg in  Grafton, Wisconsin , [4]   Camp Nordland  in  Andover, New Jersey , [5] [6]  Deutschhorst Country Club in  Sellersville, Pennsylvania , [7]  and a camp in  Windham, New York . [8]

 
 
 
Krishna
4.2.11  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @4.2.10    2 weeks ago

They even had several popular summer camps:

And several prominent Americans were Nazi sympathizers-- one of them even received a decoration from Hitler!

Trump Hails “Good Bloodlines” of Henry Ford, Whose Anti-Semitism Inspired Hitler

320

In 1938, Henry Ford accepted Nazi Germany's highest honor for foreigners, The Grand Cross of the German Eagle, for his service to the Third Reich. The award was presented by two Nazi diplomats in Detroit, along with a personal message from Adolf Hitler.   Photo: Associated Press File

( Get Smarter Here )

 
 
 
Nerm_L
4.2.12  Nerm_L  replied to  Krishna @4.2.10    2 weeks ago
I think you have a rather bizarre definition of liberal!

I don't think so.  The Nazi takeover of Germany was as leftist liberal as the French Revolution, the Russian Bolshevik revolt, the Spanish Civil War, the Chinese Cultural Revolution, and Fidel Castro's revolution in Cuba.  Do you think Napoleon Bonaparte was a conservative?  Do you think Che Guevara was a far-right revolutionary?

Adolf Hitler followed the same path as Maximilien Robespierre, Leon Trotsky, Francisco Franco, Mao Tse Tung, and Fidel Castro.  

Throughout history, far-left liberal political movements have been bloody and destructive.  Far-left liberals have silenced dissent using harsh measures.  And far-left liberals have tried to rewrite history to hide their own past.

 
 
 
Tessylo
4.2.13  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @4.2.12    2 weeks ago

'I don't think so.  The Nazi takeover of Germany was as leftist liberal as the French Revolution, the Russian Bolshevik revolt, the Spanish Civil War, the Chinese Cultural Revolution, and Fidel Castro's revolution in Cuba.  Do you think Napoleon Bonaparte was a conservative?  Do you think Che Guevara was a far-right revolutionary?

Adolf Hitler followed the same path as Maximilien Robespierre, Leon Trotsky, Francisco Franco, Mao Tse Tung, and Fidel Castro.  

Throughout history, far-left liberal political movements have been bloody and destructive.  Far-left liberals have silenced dissent using harsh measures.  And far-left liberals have tried to rewrite history to hide their own past.'

This is projection at its' finest.

When you're not dealing in projection, you're dealing in conspiracy theories.  

 
 
 
Ender
5  Ender    2 weeks ago

I figured this would happen. I am surprised more countries have not done the same.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
5.1  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Ender @5    2 weeks ago

Give it time.....

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
6  Sean Treacy    2 weeks ago

Ah.. Travel bans. When America does it liberals scream racism! stupidity!

When Europe does it? Smart!

Some things are as predictable as the sun coming up. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
6.1  Sparty On  replied to  Sean Treacy @6    2 weeks ago

I know.   They think they are being cute i suppose.

It's just more empirical proof of the TDS ridden nature of their existence right now.

Sad!

 
 
 
Krishna
6.2  Krishna  replied to  Sean Treacy @6    2 weeks ago
When America does it liberals scream racism!

Link?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
6.2.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Krishna @6.2    2 weeks ago

You need a link for March? 

Sad.

 
 
 
Krishna
6.2.2  Krishna  replied to  Sean Treacy @6.2.1    2 weeks ago
Sad.

I've noticed you've expressed sadness quite often lately!

Is there anything those of us here can do to get you out of your depression? (I'm sure most people here would love to help you with your problems in any way we can! jrSmiley_93_smiley_image.jpg )

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
6.2.3  Sean Treacy  replied to  Krishna @6.2.2    2 weeks ago

I'm surprised you can remember that! Good for you!  

You forget riots and travel bans  but remember what words  I post months ago! I'm flattered...

But,  if you'd take some advice, I'd stop worrying about me and try and pay more attention to current events.  Because It's not depression that makes me sad,  it is watching you  struggle so much to form coherent arguments.  What can I say? I'm a big softie and can't help pitying you.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
6.2.4  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Krishna @6.2.2    2 weeks ago

How is what you said skirting the CoC?

 
 
 
Krishna
6.3  Krishna  replied to  Sean Treacy @6    2 weeks ago
When America does it liberals scream racism!

Link?

 
 
 
Krishna
7  Krishna    2 weeks ago
Sounds like a good idea.  Can we make it permanent?

He who forgets the past is doomed to repeat it...

(Perhaps some folks here are hoping that Trump's Russian Puppet-masters will be enabled to conquer our democratic European allies if we stab them in the back?)

Nazi Blitzkrieg Conquers Europe:

384

 
 
 
Ronin2
7.1  Ronin2  replied to  Krishna @7    2 weeks ago

If the Europeans are stupid enough to let that happen again they will get what they deserve. 

I will never agree to the US fighting their wars for them.

 
 
 
Krishna
7.1.1  Krishna  replied to  Ronin2 @7.1    2 weeks ago
I will never agree to the US fighting their wars for them.

So after Imperial Japan attacked us at Pearl Harbour-- would you say that we were fighting other people's wars?

How about if we had armed before Pearl harbor, and entered the war earlier?

(By entering the war earlier to defend our allies we could have ended it a lot sooner).

BTW did you know that since the U.S. entered the war s olate, many Americans who strongly opposed Hitler and Hirohito couldn't fight (as the U.S. was neutral)-- so they crossed into Canada as volunteers fighting for the Allied forces? Britain and its allies such as Canada entered the war long before the U.S.)

 
 
 
charger 383
8  charger 383    2 weeks ago

This will be good for a while

 
 
 
Krishna
8.1  Krishna  replied to  charger 383 @8    2 weeks ago

And then what?

 
 
 
charger 383
8.1.1  charger 383  replied to  Krishna @8.1    2 weeks ago

reevaluate,  

 
 
 
Tacos!
9  Tacos!    2 weeks ago

I'm not insulted. It's probably a good idea. It's not as if there is no reason for it.

 
 
 
Tessylo
10  Tessylo    2 weeks ago

105313341_10212975477982095_7653620316653758923_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=TKkFrTlB2VsAX-r9WUx&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=1f54b82781f82f4ddfcdec1e9d58f79e&oe=5F19FD41

 
 
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