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Trump's Reckless Push To Reopen Schools Is An Admission Of Failure

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  tessylo  •  4 years ago  •  216 comments

By:   Arthur Delaney, Huffpost

Trump's Reckless Push To Reopen Schools Is An Admission Of Failure

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



U.S.

Trump's Reckless Push To Reopen Schools Is An Admission Of Failure





Arthur Delaney


huffpost_Light.png July 10, 2020, 11:38 AM


By pushing to reopen schools this fall regardless of whether the coronavirus is still spreading wildly, President Donald Trump is giving up on his own plan to contain the virus.





In April, the White House unv eiled ” Guidelines for Opening Up America Again ,” which call for business and other activities to resume in staggered phases, depending on local progress in containing the virus.

The guidelines, which are influential but not binding, say states can enter the first phase of reopening if they have a “downward trajectory” of documented cases over 14 days or a lower percentage of positive tests over that time period. Schools should only reopen in the second phase ― after an additional  two weeks with cases going down.

Now, though, as the president insists against all evidence that the virus is under control ahead of the November election, those guidelines have gone out the window. Trump is not saying cases should go down before schools reopen. He’s saying schools should open no matter what.


“We’re very much going to put pressure on governors and everybody else to open the schools, to get them open,” Trump said Tuesday. On Friday, he upped the threat,  tweeting , “Schools must be open in the Fall. If not open, why would the Federal Government give Funding? It won’t!!!” (Schools are mostly funded by state and local taxes, and federal funds are appropriated by Congress, so it’s not clear how much the president’s threat matters.)


Cases have risen over the previous 14 days in most states,  according to a New York Times coronavirus database , with alarmingly high numbers of infections in states that took Trump’s encouragement to “liberate” themselves from public health recommendations. Nationally, the daily death toll is still below its April peak, but the number of new infections has set six daily records in 10 days.

And there’s no indication that things will get better soon, said Leana Wen, an emergency physician and public health professor at George Washington University. Wen  has argued  that the only way to make it safe to reopen schools is to get the virus under control in the general population. Part of the strategy likely involves closing some businesses, such as bars and nightclubs.

“We need to do the hard work now in order to have any hope of schools reopening safely,” Wen said.

In his various remarks this week, the president hasn’t said anything about the possibility of closing down businesses or curtailing economic activity. Instead, he’s gushed about the jobs numbers, the stock market, the “pretty amazing stat” that out of thousands of children infected in New Jersey, only one has died. He’s whined that European countries are reopening schools  without acknowledging  that they’ve controlled their outbreaks. And he’s railed against governors who haven’t committed to sending kids back into classrooms five days per week.

“They don’t want to open because they think it will help them on Nov. 3rd,” Trump said Thursday. “I think it’s gonna hurt them on Nov. 3rd. Open your schools.”

poll last month  suggested most voters worry about reopening schools this fall. But that doesn’t translate into some cheap political benefit for the president’s opponents. School closures are horrible. Kids aren’t learning and their parents are miserable. People probably understand, however, that there’s a grim balancing act, that their sacrifice might buy a general reduction in illness and gasping death.

Recognizing a scientific consensus that the virus spreads by people breathing and talking near each other for extended periods, the  Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has said  schools ought to try to keep students six feet apart. Since most schools don’t have enough space to do that, some governors are announcing schemes that would allow different groups of students to take turns going to class two or three days per week.

5f0886822200002907386c80.jpeg

Children in an elementary school class wear masks and sit as desks spaced apart during summer school at Happy Day School in Monterey Park, California. Gov. Gavin Newsom says the reopening of California schools for the coming school year will be based on safety — not pressure from Trump. (Photo: FREDERIC J. BROWN via Getty Images

Instead of working with Congress to help schools find more space, or to ramp up testing for the virus, or to afford cleaning and personal protective equipment, or to invest in ventilation systems that could reduce the number of virus particles circulating through classrooms, the White House has decided all of a sudden that the CDC guidance is actually bad and should be changed.

Trump tweeted this week that he disagreed with the CDC “on their very tough & expensive guidelines for opening schools” and “will be meeting with them!!!” Vice President Mike Pence, chair of the administration’s coronavirus task force, then said that  there would be new guidance for schools  and that the White House never intended for states to actually follow the original recommendations.

“If states can’t meet those guidelines, then they’re not safe to reopen,” Wen said.

But the White House has seemingly settled on a new mantra. “The virus is with us, but we need to live with it,” as a senior official  told NBCNews .

Congress, for its part, is on recess, but might pass another coronavirus stimulus bill later this month. Democrats have proposed $100 billion for schools, while  Republicans are preoccupied  with stopping a feared wave of coronavirus-related lawsuits against schools and businesses that open up ― a tacit admission that doing so won’t be remotely safe.

The school situation is starting to look like a crisis. Staying home has awful consequences for children, and the  American Academy of Pediatrics has said  the ultimate policy goal should be for kids to be physically back in school full time, noting that children seem less likely to spread the virus or suffer severe illness. (The AAP  said Friday , however, that “areas with high levels of COVID-19 community spread should not be compelled to reopen against the judgment of local experts.”)

“The severe negative impacts of keeping schools closed, including mental and social development, are well documented, including by pediatricians,” White House spokesman Judd Deere said in an email. “The president wants to see schools open and the administration is committed to working in partnership with university presidents, superintendents, principals, counselors, teachers, health professionals, parents, and students to ensure in-person learning resumes in a safe and healthy way.”

But the administration is acting like it does not actually want schools open in the fall, said Ashish Jha, professor of global health at Harvard University.

“On the one hand their words are saying schools must open,” Jha said. “Their actions suggest they’re giving up on schools being open in large parts of the country. You can say whatever you want, but schools will not be able to open and stay open with the kinds of outbreaks we’re seeing.”

Here’s what’s going to happen, Jha said, in places that head into the school year without controlling the outbreaks first: The business community will pressure local governments to open the schools so that working parents can return to their jobs. COVID-19 symptoms may be mild in children, but teachers will start getting sick, their unions will revolt, and schools will close again. The whole year could be lost.

“We have one shot to open schools this fall and we’re squandering it,” Jha said



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Tessylo
Professor Principal
1  seeder  Tessylo    4 years ago
By pushing to reopen schools this fall regardless of whether the coronavirus is still spreading wildly, President Donald Trump is giving up on his own plan to contain the virus.

In April, the White House unv eiled ”   Guidelines for Opening Up America Again   ,” which call for business and other activities to resume in staggered phases, depending on local progress in containing the virus.

The guidelines, which are influential but not binding, say states can enter the first phase of reopening if they have a “downward trajectory” of documented cases over 14 days or a lower percentage of positive tests over that time period. Schools should only reopen in the second phase ― after an additional  two weeks with cases going down.

Now, though, as the president insists against all evidence that the virus is under control ahead of the November election, those guidelines have gone out the window. Trump is not saying cases should go down before schools reopen. He’s saying schools should open no matter what.

“We’re very much going to put pressure on governors and everybody else to open the schools, to get them open,” Trump said Tuesday. On Friday, he upped the threat,   tweeting   , “Schools must be open in the Fall. If not open, why would the Federal Government give Funding? It won’t!!!” (Schools are mostly funded by state and local taxes, and federal funds are appropriated by Congress, so it’s not clear how much the president’s threat matters.)

Cases have risen over the previous 14 days in most states,   according to a New York Times coronavirus database   , with alarmingly high numbers of infections in states that took Trump’s encouragement to “liberate” themselves from public health recommendations. Nationally, the daily death toll is still below its April peak, but the number of new infections has set six daily records in 10 days.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Tessylo @1    4 years ago

Opening of schools should be left to the discretion of the local school districts without state or Federal interference.

I'm sure that classes could be constructed allowing for social spacing and mask wearing. Children are very unlikely to come down with the virus.

Keeping kids home means a parent will have to stay home with them in most cases. In low income families, this would cause intolerable hardships.

Once again, the nanny state left has failed to think things through.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.1  Ozzwald  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    4 years ago
I'm sure that classes could be constructed allowing for social spacing and mask wearing.

How much more in taxes are you willing to pay for that construction?

Children are very unlikely to come down with the virus.

Absolute, blatant, lie.  Children are just as likely to contract COVID as any other human being.

Keeping kids home means a parent will have to stay home with them in most cases.

"Hey, mom, is the inconvenience of keeping you child home acceptable, compared to the risk of them getting sick and maybe even dying?"

In low income families, this would cause intolerable hardships.

So you are saying that families with lower income have less love for their children?  This is very telling about your beliefs.  As for the hardships, tell McConnell to get off his ass and pass more pandemic support bills, THIS IS WHAT THE GOVERNMENT IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR, PROTECTING ITS CITIZENS !

Once again, the nanny state left has failed to think things through.

It is the non-"nanny states" right, that opened to early and is causing this surge in infections and deaths.  Or did you forget that???

Remember, if Trump had done his job, by this time we would have been able to SAFELY reopen businesses and schools.  Since he failed utterly, we are now looking at late 2020 before the peaks starts flattening .

Alabama: December 27th 
Arizona: December 27th
California: December 27th
Colorado: December 27th
Florida: October 5th
Georgia: December 21st
Hawaii: November 22ns
Kansas: December 27th
Montana: December 27th
Nebraska: December 27th
Nevada: December 24th
New Hampshire: November 20th
North Carolina: December 27th
Oregon: December 16th
South Carolina: December 27th
South Dakota: December 27th
Tennessee: December 27th
Texas: November 13th
Utah: December 27th
Vermont: December 24th
Washington: November 28th

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.2  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.1    4 years ago

tRump has turned the U.S. into a CHAOTIC DISASTER

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.3  Ozzwald  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.2    4 years ago
tRump has turned the U.S. into a CHAOTIC DISASTER

At least he can proclaim to his followers that American is Number 1 in the number of Corona virus infections and deaths.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.1.4  Dulay  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    4 years ago
I'm sure that classes could be constructed allowing for social spacing and mask wearing.

I'm sure they can too. Unfortunately, historically funding to do so hasn't been forthcoming. There are hundreds of schools that have had overcrowded classrooms for DECADES. 

Children are very unlikely to come down with the virus.

Speaking of failing "to think things through", perhaps you can share your thoughtful thesis on addressing the vulnerability of the ADULTS that transport, educate, care for and clean up after those children. 

Oh and BTFW, there are almost 3 MILLION households where grandparents are raising their grandchildren. Have you thought that one through too? 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
1.1.5  Greg Jones  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.1    4 years ago

Instead of constructed, I should have said arranged in the available spaces.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.6  Ozzwald  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.5    4 years ago

Instead of constructed, I should have said arranged in the available spaces.

How are you going to arrange 40 children in a standard square room?

af08ba4bce655d5aaad3672b255643fe.jpg

You were better off sticking with your 1st answer.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.7  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.6    4 years ago

He was better off saying nothing. . . 

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
1.1.8  Gordy327  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.6    4 years ago

Even if classroom capacity was reduced by half to make social distancing space, where do you place the rest of the students? Schools would have to turn their gymnasiums and cafeterias into classrooms, as they are probably large enough to accommodate adequate spacing. Of course, that poses problems of its own.

 
 
 
Account Deleted
Freshman Silent
1.1.9  Account Deleted  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.3    4 years ago

Also, Trump is #1 at being #2. Hey - that's something.

 
 
 
zuksam
Junior Silent
1.1.10  zuksam  replied to  Gordy327 @1.1.8    4 years ago

We were supposed to be flattening the curve and we've done that. The Idea that we can quarantine indefinitely to prevent infection is crazy. Covid 19 is like any other flue it's not going away so we just have to face it head on. If infection rates rise to the point hospitals may be overwhelmed then we'll need to take action again but as it stands now in most areas we are not having problems so we can reopen most things. Of course the infirm must protect themselves but everyone else can go about their business. I think it's still a little early for large gatherings like sports or concerts since they are not necessary but schools are and any danger that reopening causes will still be dangerous next year so why wait. As far as Teacher safety goes schools have always been petri dishes so nobody with immune system issues or other infirmities should be teaching anyway.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
1.1.11  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.6    4 years ago

In my town in SE Arizona, we will be doing split sessions morning and afternoon to reduce class size by 50% to allow for adequate spacing between students.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.12  Ozzwald  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @1.1.11    4 years ago

In my town in SE Arizona, we will be doing split sessions morning and afternoon to reduce class size by 50% to allow for adequate spacing between students.

So, based on current Corona virus strategy in Arizona, I assume that your cases are dropping in numbers?  Otherwise, I'd have to wonder why you would trust your state's strategy on anything.

ArizonaDNC_Update_v01_LY_hpEmbed_22x15_992.jpg

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.13  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.12    4 years ago

Some posters were saying how co-vid 19 was only spreading in 'democratic hotbeds'.

What's the excuse now?

I don't believe Texas, Arizona, Florida, or California are democratic hotbeds.

It's been tied to all those places where people openly flaunted guidelines, didn't social distance, didn't wear masks.  

Not tied to PROTESTS.  

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
1.1.14  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.12    4 years ago

Nice try but your nifty graph does not break it down be County. I live in a small corner of AZ with some of the least cases in the state. We never had near as much cases as the rest of the state.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
1.1.15  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.13    4 years ago

Actually the large cities  like  Tucson,  Phoenix metro area, Flagstaff, and Sedona are. The rural areas not so much.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
1.1.16  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.13    4 years ago

I agree with you on that political demographics have absolutely nothing to do with the spread of tha virus and are in no way tied to protests. Anybody stating that is woefully misinformed.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.17  Ozzwald  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @1.1.14    4 years ago
Nice try but your nifty graph does not break it down be County.

My God!  It doesn't break it down to city block either!!!!  How dare they lump all Arizonians together in Arizona!!!

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.1.18  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.12    4 years ago

Is that what "flattening the curve" looks like to you?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
1.1.19  Kavika   replied to  zuksam @1.1.10    4 years ago
We were supposed to be flattening the curve and we've done that.

WTH, that is a ridiculous statement. No way have we flattened the curve, we are going in the opposite direction. On Saturday Florida recorded 15,300 new covid cases. The virus is out of control in many states. 

If you think it's safe to open schools you might want to take a look at this article. 

An additional 136 children in Manatee County have tested positive for COVID-19,   according to the Florida Department of Health .

In a report dated Friday, the health department said a total of 468 children have tested positive for the novel coronavirus responsible for the COVID-19 respiratory disease.   A week earlier,   332 people 17 and younger had tested positive, according to the health department.

A total of 1,070 children have been tested in Manatee since the start of the pandemic, for a positivity rate of 43.7%, up from 35.7%, a week earlier. By comparison, the county’s overall positivity rate as of Saturday was 9%. The county has a total of 4,632 cases, as of Sunday, meaning 10.1% of those who have tested positive in Manatee County were children.

Statewide, a total of 17,073 children have been infected with the coronavirus, or 24.2% of those tested. In Florida, 6.7% of those who have tested positive are children.

Four children have died.

I don't have the answer to the school situation but we damn sure better have a plan other than the school need to be opened.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.20  Ozzwald  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.18    4 years ago

Is that what "flattening the curve" looks like to you?

The graph?  Absolutely not!

The comment?  See sarcasm.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.1.21  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.20    4 years ago

Sorry.  I should have directed my comment to zuksam who had said "We were supposed to be flattening the curve and we've done that."

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.22  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.20    4 years ago

I believe we have flattened the curve here in Maryland.  Hospitalizations are down.   I removed the graph but you could click on the link to the article to see it.  

Maryland reports 272 new coronavirus cases, 3 more deaths

BALTIMORE SUN   |
JUL 06, 2020   AT   11:42 AM

Maryland health officials confirmed 272 new COVID-19 cases Monday in addition to 3 more deaths — the lowest number of daily fatalities since March 31.

So far, the state has reported   69,904 cases and 3,121 deaths   from the illness caused by the coronavirus.July 6 202

Maryland has thus far avoided a new spike in coronavirus cases, while other states have battled large increases after relaxing restrictions.

Each day in the last week, the state has reported fewer than 550 new cases. Monday’s new case count was the lowest since June 18. At its peak, Maryland reported 1,784 cases in a single day.

In Maryland, deaths are not always reported the day they occur, but Monday marked the 11th straight day that health officials reported fewer than 20 coronavirus-related casualties. Maryland had no such days from April 10 to June 6.

As of Monday, 403 people are hospitalized in Maryland as a result of the disease, down from 409 on Sunday. This continues the downward trend in hospitalizations dating back to July 1.

The state’s testing positivity rate is 4.5%, a new low. This rate is calculated as a seven-day average, but the state’s single-day positivity rate —3.36% — is also a new low.

Monday marks the 11th straight day the state’s positivity rate has been below 5%. The World Health Organization recommends 14 consecutive days with such a rate before governments loosen virus-related restrictions, but Maryland has been operating under the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommendation, which only calls for two weeks of a positivity rate below 15%.

Gov. Larry Hogan applauded Monday’s numbers.

“As we continue to see encouraging trends in all of our key health metrics, widespread testing across each of Maryland’s 24 jurisdictions remains a critical component of our long-term recovery,” the Republican governor said in a statement.

As of Sunday, Baltimore County is the state’s 11th jurisdiction to test at least 10% of its population, a statewide goal, Hogan said.

Over the past week, the largest increase in cases has come from people between 20 and 29 years old, prompting concerns among officials that younger adults are not adhering to social distancing and calls for wearing masks. More than 500 new cases have been reported in this group since June 29.

Prince George’s and Montgomery counties continue to lead the state in coronavirus cases, with 19,040 and 15,163 respectively. They are followed by Baltimore County with 8,336 cases, Baltimore City with 7,960 and Anne Arundel County with 5,290.

Race data is not reported for a sizable chunk of Maryland’s coronavirus cases, but African Americans have the highest percentage of cases, with 35%. According to the Census Bureau, about 30.9% of Maryland’s population is Black. About 32% of the state’s cases are among Hispanic people, who make up just 10.9% of Maryland’s population. Although white people are 58.8% of the state’s population, they make up just 24.2% of Maryland’s COVID-19 cases.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.23  Ozzwald  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.21    4 years ago
Sorry.  I should have directed my comment to zuksam who had said "We were supposed to be flattening the curve and we've done that."

No worries...jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif

I've been called out a few times for not pointing out that my comment was meant as sarcasm.  I keep forgetting to add a sarcasm tag.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.24  Ozzwald  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.22    4 years ago
I believe we have flattened the curve here in Maryland.

Congrats!! 

Too many states, mine included, reopened early to assuage our idiot in the Whitehouse who is more concerned with re-election and his stock portfolio, than people's lives.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
1.1.25  Krishna  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    4 years ago
Opening of schools should be left to the discretion of the local school districts without state or Federal interference.

I thought you were a Trump supporter? 

You know-- states' rights and all-- and not be pushed around by that evil Federal gov't?

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
1.1.26  Krishna  replied to  zuksam @1.1.10    4 years ago

We were supposed to be flattening the curve and we've done that.

Sort of like Florida has just "flattened the curve"-- well, at least they have the situation "stabilized":

Florida Sets Coronavirus Death Record, Hours After Gov. DeSantis Said State Had ‘Stabilized’

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
2  It Is ME    4 years ago

If Walmart, BLM Protests, Home Depot, Lowes, Publix, Liquor Stores and any other place that is open (Never Closed), and is still allowed to stay open because they are considered "Essential", Schools should be too.

Schools are VERY Essential .... to the Children  jrSmiley_93_smiley_image.jpg !

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  It Is ME @2    4 years ago

So which public schools do your grandchildren attend?

Do you wear a mask around your grandchildren?

You told me you never wear a mask.  

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
2.1.1  It Is ME  replied to  Tessylo @2.1    4 years ago
So which public schools do your grandchildren attend?

Oh Wait..... let me give you a map of my area. jrSmiley_103_smiley_image.jpg

"You told me you never wear a mask. "

And that has to do with ANYTHING......how ? jrSmiley_97_smiley_image.gif

Prove You Wear a Mask ! jrSmiley_15_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.2  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  It Is ME @2.1.1    4 years ago

I work in a hospital and I HAVE TO WEAR A MASK.

When I GO TO THE GROCERY STORE, I WEAR A MASK.

I don't care where you live, I don't care anything about you.  

Just repeating what you told me, that you don't wear a mask in public.  

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
2.1.3  It Is ME  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.2    4 years ago
I work in a hospital and I HAVE TO WEAR A MASK.

Okay ........ jrSmiley_89_smiley_image.gif

From Comment 2.3.3 : I DON'T BELIEVE YOU.  NOBODY DOES.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.2  devangelical  replied to  It Is ME @2    4 years ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
2.2.1  It Is ME  replied to  devangelical @2.2    4 years ago
send them goober kids to school, and then make sure they visit their trumpster grandparents on the weekend...

That's so Cute !

All School age children only come from "Trump Supporting Parents" ?

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.3  Ozzwald  replied to  It Is ME @2    4 years ago
If Walmart, BLM Protests, Home Depot, Lowes, Publix, Liquor Stores and any other place that is open (Never Closed), and is still allowed to stay open because they are considered "Essential", Schools should be too.

Because opening up huge mega stores to a limited amount of shoppers is the same thing as crowding 20 - 40 children in the same classroom.  Right?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.3.1  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Ozzwald @2.3    4 years ago

Some numbnuts republican or a gop, that if they're opening casinos they can open schools . . . . 

What the what . . . 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
2.3.2  It Is ME  replied to  Ozzwald @2.3    4 years ago
Because opening up huge mega stores to a limited amount of shoppers is the same thing as crowding 20 - 40 children in the same classroom.

Where have you seen Door Monitors, limiting the amount of folks allowed in so-called "Essential Stores" ?

Ain't happenin'.......anywhere !

Mask Priority....Yes !

Body Count ..... NO !

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.3.3  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  It Is ME @2.3.2    4 years ago

"Where have you seen Door Monitors, limiting the amount of folks allowed in so-called "Essential Stores" ?

Ain't happenin'.......anywhere !

Mask Priority....Yes !

Body Count ..... NO !"

Every store I go into, they have people monitoring how many are coming in to the store.

What stores do you go to where they're NOT doing this?  I DON'T BELIEVE YOU.  NOBODY DOES.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
2.3.4  It Is ME  replied to  Tessylo @2.3.3    4 years ago
Every store I go into, they have people monitoring how many are coming in to the store.

Got any Pics ?

 
 
 
Account Deleted
Freshman Silent
2.3.5  Account Deleted  replied to  Ozzwald @2.3    4 years ago

I know this is not a serious comment that you are making, but I will respond anyway 'cause it amuses me.

Looks like I will have to go to a HomeDepot type store today. I'll wear a mask and gloves. I will be in the store  with its 30 foot ceilings perhaps 20 minutes. I will pass by  only 5 or 6 other customers (most of them masked) even though there may be 100 in the store - it's just that big.

I can then avoid going to any store again for 1 or 2 weeks.

So my exposure time will be maybe 2 hours a month vs. a small classroom with 8 foot ceilings and total exposure time per month of what - 120 hours or so.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.3.6  Ozzwald  replied to  It Is ME @2.3.2    4 years ago
Where have you seen Door Monitors, limiting the amount of folks allowed in so-called "Essential Stores" ?

Home Depot, Lowes, and Walmart.  AND I have seen all 3 stores turn away people not wearing masks.

Ain't happenin'.......anywhere !

That's a lie!  You can even go onto YouTube and watch LOTS of videos of people throwing tantrums when they are turned away.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.3.7  Ozzwald  replied to  Tessylo @2.3.3    4 years ago
Every store I go into, they have people monitoring how many are coming in to the store. What stores do you go to where they're NOT doing this?  I DON'T BELIEVE YOU.  NOBODY DOES.

No door monitors in Russia......

Just sayin'.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
2.3.8  Ronin2  replied to  Ozzwald @2.3.7    4 years ago
No door monitors in Russia......

Right, because Russia is such a non militaristic non totalitarian state. jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif

Just sayin'.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.3.9  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Ronin2 @2.3.8    4 years ago

??????????????????????????????

Just saying . . . . what?

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
2.3.10  It Is ME  replied to  Ozzwald @2.3.6    4 years ago
Home Depot, Lowes, and Walmart.  AND I have seen all 3 stores turn away people not wearing masks.

You said....and I quote:

2.3     Ozzwald    replied to    It Is ME   @ 2

"Because opening up huge mega stores to a limited amount of shoppers is the same thing as crowding 20 - 40 children in the same classroom.  Right?

I'm the one that spoke of limiting those without masks.

See 2.3.2     It Is ME     replied to    Ozzwald   @ 2.3    

"Mask Priority....Yes !

Body Count ..... NO !"

Stop being Joe Biden and stealing others words as if it was your own idea. jrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gif jrSmiley_89_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
2.3.11  Krishna  replied to  It Is ME @2.3.2    4 years ago
Where have you seen Door Monitors, limiting the amount of folks allowed in so-called "Essential Stores" ?

I have seen them at several different stores!

(In fact, I have also seen them marking a line to the entrance with tape at every 6 feet)

And many stores have signs saying:

No Mask-- No Admittance!

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.3.12  XXJefferson51  replied to  It Is ME @2.3.4    4 years ago

They don’t do that here either and other than Costco no one compels mask wearing upon entry.  Maybe 25% of shoppers wear masks here.  All the stores have the required mask signs.  Here other than a membership place that compels masks would only drive the customer to their competition 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.3.13  XXJefferson51  replied to  Tessylo @2.3.3    4 years ago

Of course telling another member in all caps that NOBODY believes them couldn’t possibly be a sweeping generalization....

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
2.3.14  It Is ME  replied to  Krishna @2.3.11    4 years ago

Most have the tape, and some say "wear a mask", but none of them limit the amount of bodies allowed in a store.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
2.4  bugsy  replied to  It Is ME @2    4 years ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
2.4.6  It Is ME  replied to    4 years ago
Neither have you.

Do you even know what a "Point" is ?

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
2.4.8  It Is ME  replied to  bugsy @2.4    4 years ago

THE "POINT" !

320

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
3  Nerm_L    4 years ago

Touting social distancing as the most effective means to control spread of the virus while voicing alarm over inadequacy of social distancing in school settings really does send a confusing message.  Do the social distancing recommendations work or not?  Opening schools would directly test those recommendations for social distancing.

Trials of distance learning using technology haven't proven to work very well.  So, classroom teaching is still the most effective means of education.  And the need to limit exposure to the virus has placed greater emphasis on teaching what is necessary rather than on social activities and extracurricular activities.  The pandemic really is forcing the system of education to determine what is essential while trimming the unessential. 

Forcing schools to open during the pandemic may actually improve education by eliminating nonessential subject matter and classroom activities.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @3    4 years ago
"Trials of distance learning using technology haven't proven to work very well.  So, classroom teaching is still the most effective means of education.  And the need to limit exposure to the virus has placed greater emphasis on teaching what is necessary rather than on social activities and extracurricular activities.  The pandemic really is forcing the system of education to determine what is essential while trimming the unessential."

Citation?  

"Forcing schools to open during the pandemic may actually improve education by eliminating nonessential subject matter and classroom activities."

How foolish

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
3.1.1  Ozzwald  replied to  Tessylo @3.1    4 years ago
Citation? 

What trials?  Trials of a hastily executed, unprepared for plan, that was rolled out prematurely due to a pandemic?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1.2  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Tessylo @3.1    4 years ago

Actually, that is a good point.  

Not re-opening schools, but removing the nonessential subject matter is a great idea.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.2  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @3    4 years ago
Do the social distancing recommendations work or not? 

You are asking too general a question.   Social distancing of 6 feet does not work if someone is yelling, coughing or sneezing but it is quite effective for normal talking.   Social distancing cannot stop forced air movement that circulates within a room from spreading airborne droplets containing the virus.

In schools, we should take exceptional precautions which include social-distancing, masks, cleaning of hands and surfaces, not touching one's face, proper air filtration and circulation, and minimizing the time students must be in close proximity (i.e. classrooms only when necessary).

The pandemic really is forcing the system of education to determine what is essential while trimming the unessential. 

Good point.   You might be right.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
3.2.1  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @3.2    4 years ago
You are asking too general a question.   Social distancing of 6 feet does not work if someone is yelling, coughing or sneezing but it is quite effective for normal talking.   Social distancing cannot stop forced air movement that circulates within a room from spreading airborne droplets containing the virus.

That only underscores that we don't know how effectively social distancing controls spread of the virus.  If the virus is airborne, as empirical evidence suggests, then the virus will linger in the air for hours.  Airborne spread of the virus indicates that separation must include time as well as distance.

People are social distancing while standing in line.  But as the line moves forward, each person eventually occupies the same air space as preceding individuals.  Air circulation disperses the virus but that also spreads the virus.  

What the evidence suggests is that reducing the amount of viable virus transmitted to the air really is the most effective means of controlling spread of the virus.  Once the virus is introduced into the air then the virus will spread.  Social distancing isn't as necessary when people are wearing an appropriate face covering.

What the empirical evidence is suggesting would be that the government response would be more effective by educating the public about wearing face coverings and for the government to distribute appropriate face coverings.  Face coverings would appear to be much more important than testing to control spread of the virus.

The pandemic is forcing scrutiny of all nonessential activities.   And the pandemic is forcing recognition that some activities considered essential really aren't essential, after all.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.2.2  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @3.2.1    4 years ago

Again, let's leave that up to the doctors/scientists/researchers, thanks.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.2.3  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @3.2.1    4 years ago
That only underscores that we don't know how effectively social distancing controls spread of the virus. 

There will always be unknowns.  

Are you of the opinion that we should not engage in social distancing?   It sure seems that way based on your comments.   And if you do realize that social distancing is an important safeguard, what is the point of noting the obvious fact that we do not know everything about this virus related to social distancing?   

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
3.2.4  Nerm_L  replied to  Tessylo @3.2.2    4 years ago
Again, let's leave that up to the doctors/scientists/researchers, thanks.

The only thing the doctors/scientists/researchers know for certain is that they don't know.  Many have publicly stated that little is known for certain about the coronavirus.  The pandemic isn't going to be stopped by studying the coronavirus to death.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.2.5  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @3.2.4    4 years ago

No, it will be only be stopped with future research and I'm fine with leaving it up to the doctors/scientists/researchers.  

 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.2.6  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @3.2.4    4 years ago
The only thing the doctors/scientists/researchers know for certain is that they don't know.

The only thing they know for certain?   Good grief man do you think the scientific community is incompetent?   The scientific community knows a hell of a lot more about this virus than simply knowing that there are unknowns.

And if you inserted the phrase 'for certain' as semantic wiggle room then I will agree that scientists know very little about reality with certainty.   For example, scientists do not have 100% certainty that the Earth orbits the Sun but the data suggesting this is true is absolutely overwhelming and the confidence is spectacularly high.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
3.2.7  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @3.2.3    4 years ago
Are you of the opinion that we should not engage in social distancing?   It sure seems that way based on your comments.   And if you do realize that social distancing is an important safeguard, what is the point of noting the obvious fact that we do not know everything about this virus related to social distancing?

I am of the opinion that expending more effort on adoption of face coverings would eliminate the need for social distancing.  The current effort is focusing attention on the wrong priority.  For all we know, social distancing may be be completely ineffective in controlling spread of the virus once the virus has been introduced into the air.

I am of the opinion that reopening schools wouldn't be a problem provided everyone is properly trained how to use a face covering and provided access to appropriate face coverings.

I am of the opinion that the emphasis on testing bears more responsibility for poor control of virus spread.  We've taken our eye off the ball so now we are swinging and missing.  Contain the virus and it won't spread; that's just common sense.  We don't need to believe in science to trust common sense.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.2.8  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @3.2.7    4 years ago
I am of the opinion that expending more effort on adoption of face coverings would eliminate the need for social distancing. 

Why?   Where do you find the data that suggests face coverings obviate the need for social distancing in the general public?   I am not objecting to you having an opinion, but rather am interested in the empirical data at the foundation of your opinion.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.2.9  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  TᵢG @3.2.8    4 years ago
"I am of the opinion that expending more effort on adoption of face coverings would eliminate the need for social distancing."

"Why?   Where do you find the data that suggests face coverings obviate the need for social distancing in the general public?   I am not objecting to you having an opinion, but rather am interested in the empirical data at the foundation of your opinion."

I'd love to know that too.  

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
3.2.10  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @3.2.8    4 years ago
Why?   Where do you find the data that suggests face coverings obviate the need for social distancing in the general public?   I am not objecting to you having an opinion, but rather am interested in the empirical data at the foundation of your opinion.

There is an extensive body of evidence for medical personnel using face coverings when examining and treating patients with compromised immune systems.  Face coverings have proven very effective against transmitting known pathogens (including viruses) to immunodeficient patients.

Standard practices and protocols for medical treatment provides the evidence being requested.  Examination and treatment of patients with compromised immune systems precludes social distancing.  Examining and treating an immunodeficient patient often precludes the patient wearing a face covering to protect themselves. 

In the case of the SARS-CoV-2 virus we are all immunodeficient.  Standard medical practice is to wear a face covering to avoid transmitting a pathogen to an immunodeficient patient.  The purpose of the face covering is to avoid transmitting pathogens and not to protect the wearer.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.2.11  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @3.2.10    4 years ago

Still no data to support your claim.

This is quite tiresome.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.2.12  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @3.2.10    4 years ago

Then you propose everyday people walk around with the same protective face coverings as frontline medical professionals?

On what basis do you find that a practical course of action?

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.2.13  Gordy327  replied to  Nerm_L @3.2.10    4 years ago
There is an extensive body of evidence for medical personnel using face coverings when examining and treating patients with compromised immune systems.  Face coverings have proven very effective against transmitting known pathogens (including viruses) to immunodeficient patients.

Immunocompromised patients in a health care setting are usually placed on neutropenic precautions. This includes healthcare workers to utilize a gown, gloves, and mask. In addition, no visitors and no fresh fruit, vegetables, or flowers are allowed in the patient's room. The patient is usually in a private room too, if possible.

Examination and treatment of patients with compromised immune systems precludes social distancing. 

Immunocompromised patients should only interact with those providing direct medical or nursing care.

In the case of the SARS-CoV-2 virus we are all immunodeficient. 

That is misleading. Healthy individuals are not immunodeficient or immunocompromised. Healthy people have a normal functioning immune system which is triggered when a pathogen invades the body. An immunocompromised individual cannot produce an immune response to a pathogen.

For all we know, social distancing may be be completely ineffective in controlling spread of the virus once the virus has been introduced into the air.

Based on what? From what has been observed so far, social distancing is effective in preventing the spread of the virus and even more so when coupled with a face mask. Masks and distance are most effective when used together.

 Many have publicly stated that little is known for certain about the coronavirus. 

That may have been true at the beginning of the outbreak. But research is ongoing and much more has been learned about the virus since then.

The pandemic isn't going to be stopped by studying the coronavirus to death.

Actually, that's exactly how it's going to stop the pandemic. Only by studying the virus will science and come up with a vaccine, medical treatments, and preventive measures. 

If the virus is airborne, as empirical evidence suggests, then the virus will linger in the air for hours.  Airborne spread of the virus indicates that separation must include time as well as distance.

It can also be spread by droplet.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
3.2.14  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @3.2.12    4 years ago
Then you propose everyday people walk around with the same protective face coverings as frontline medical professionals?

In case you haven't noticed, the general public has been walking around with the same face coverings used by medical professionals for routine practices.  

Characterizing the face coverings as 'protective' and implying that standard medical practices for routine care correspond to frontline conditions for the pandemic is only a weak attempt to move the goal posts.

On what basis do you find that a practical course of action?

On the basis that medical professionals have been recommending the use of face coverings to drastically reduce or prevent spread of the coronavirus.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.2.15  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @3.2.14    4 years ago
In case you haven't noticed, the general public has been walking around with the same face coverings used by medical professionals for routine practices.  

Knowing how you roll, you have reserved a special definition for the phrase 'routine practices' within which you will equivocate.   Your prior comment, however, ...

Nerm @3.2.10There is an extensive body of evidence for medical personnel using face coverings when examining and treating patients with compromised immune systemsFace coverings have proven very effective against transmitting known pathogens (including viruses) to immunodeficient patients.

... is clearly talking about serious protective gear.   Very much unlike the disposable coverings, home-made masks made from handkerchiefs, bandanas, etc. that most people are wearing.

Further, medical professionals necessarily are wearing gear to protect themselves too, not just protecting their patients.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4  seeder  Tessylo    4 years ago

106720303_795470874322308_459231802708220577_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=PxgfFaKCvD0AX_Etonw&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=802068daafe95aabecd15d6ba0078661&oe=5F2DA576

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
Professor Guide
4.1  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Tessylo @4    4 years ago

May cut off funding if not open.

Quid pro quo seems to be a recurring theme with Trump.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.1  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @4.1    4 years ago

That appeals to his rabid base but I don't believe the impotent turd has the power to do that.  

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
4.1.2  Ozzwald  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @4.1    4 years ago
Quid pro quo seems to be a recurring theme with Trump.

So Trump has already shown that he believes that the economy is more important than human lives.

Now the concept of opening schools is more important to him than the lives of the children, teachers, or parents.

We already know that his ability to get his Big Macs is more important than lives as well.

estate-planning-priorities-1.jpg

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
4.1.3  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Ozzwald @4.1.2    4 years ago

Trump will do ONLY what will benefit his chances for reelection - has that not already been entirely obvious?  His demand for schools to reopen is for the purpose of alleviating parents of the obligation of 24-hour care for their children, which he believes will gain their thanks and their votes.  It has nothing to do with containing a virus that is increasing daily, it has nothing to do with making sure kids get their education.  It is for one reason alone - to obtain votes. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Participates
4.1.4  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @4.1    4 years ago

Now the narcissist in chief is saying that the reason the schools are not back open is to make him look bad.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
4.1.5  Krishna  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.1.3    4 years ago
Trump will do ONLY what will benefit his chances for reelection - has that not already been entirely obvious?  His demand for schools to reopen is for the purpose of alleviating parents of the obligation of 24-hour care for their children, which he believes will gain their thanks and their votes. 

All true-- and in addition it will do something else as well-- help the economy. Many people work in schools, in addition to teachers there are janitors, cafeteria workers, etc.

Also when schools open thay start spending money on many things...

One of trump's fears is that the economy (and joblessness) will greatly hurt his re-election chances-- so he wants everything to re-open as fast as possible!

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.2  bugsy  replied to  Tessylo @4    4 years ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.2  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  bugsy @4.2    4 years ago

Anyone who believes a word out of tRumps' mouth is not to be looked at with credibility.  

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.2.3  bugsy  replied to  Tessylo @4.2.2    4 years ago

[deleted]

I think Trump said even most liberals can get jobs.

Was he lying?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.4  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  bugsy @4.2.3    4 years ago

What the fuck are you talking about?

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.2.5  bugsy  replied to  Tessylo @4.2.4    4 years ago

You said anything Trump said is a lie.

I said Trump said even liberals can get jobs (based on the great economy pre COVID and now coming back strong)

Was he lying about that?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.6  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  bugsy @4.2.5    4 years ago

jrSmiley_90_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Participates
4.2.7  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  bugsy @4.2    4 years ago

You don't even need the "like".

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.2.8  bugsy  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @4.2.7    4 years ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.2.9  bugsy  replied to  Tessylo @4.2.6    4 years ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
4.2.10  XXJefferson51  replied to  bugsy @4.2.9    4 years ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Participates
5  Paula Bartholomew    4 years ago

If Trump thinks that opening the schools is a good idea, how about he puts Baron in PS.

 
 
 
Account Deleted
Freshman Silent
7  Account Deleted    4 years ago

This assumes that students and faculty will no longer go into quarantine if they have been in contact with someone who develops Covid-19.

Without quarantine it will work something like this: 1 student gets sick and is out for a couple of weeks. They will have to study remotely or the teacher will need to prepare lessons for them. Then a few days later 2 or 3 more. Then in a few more days 2 or 3 and so on. I doubt if every one in the class will get sick but there will be times when several are out at once and the teacher will be dealing with trying to keep them up to speed.

Then of course some time in the semester, the teacher will get sick and will be out for 2-3 weeks adding one more disruption as a sub tries to figure out the lesson plans.  Will the  constantly disrupted face to face classes be better than simply doing all virtual classes?

Really - I don't know.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
7.1  Krishna  replied to  Account Deleted @7    4 years ago

There's another factor as well-- eventually some of the kids will get the virus. Probably most will be asymptomatic. They will come home as infect their entire family....

Another probable scenario: A kid gets the virus in class. When school's he meets his sibling in antoher class-- they walk home together, 5 feet apart-- doubtful.

(Or after class someone picks them up, and they sit right next to each other in the car when they are picked up).

Next day, the 2nd kid goes back to class and infects some kids in his class...who brings it home to his family...

And so on.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
7.1.1  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @7.1    4 years ago

And wherever they eat lunch (in classroom? Cafeteria?) they have to remove their mask to eat...

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8  Kavika     4 years ago

Perhaps this case is a preview of what will happen when we have a schoolroom full of students. They couldn't handle this correctly with only 5 students.

 
 
 
Account Deleted
Freshman Silent
8.1  Account Deleted  replied to  Kavika @8    4 years ago

Yes - that's why I'm working from the assumption that quarantine will not be used as a containment strategy. With this strategy they would not close down even a class of 25 let alone 5.

Instead, elementary schools will need to use a "cohort" immunity strategy. (Kind of like "herd" immunity.) Basically get it over with  - provide an environment were everyone in a cohort gets sick as soon as possible and then move on.

High school gets trickier since, last time I was in high school, students moved from class to class - not all students in the same class. Teachers teach different groups of students. So the spread is not contained  in a single group of students or a single teacher.

Of course you can't avoid common areas like lunch rooms and restrooms and school buses.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8.1.1  Kavika   replied to  Account Deleted @8.1    4 years ago

You're saying that there would be no social distancing? If that is the proposal than ''room'' requirement won't be a problem but the virus will spread much quicker and then there are the teachers, what if they get the virus. If there is social distancing than the room requirement grows and most schools do not have the room for this. 

From what I've read so far most school districts are not paying any attention to DeVos or Trump and are taking a different approach. From what I've seen social distancing will be required and the student will not have a 5 day school week, more like 2 to 3 day week with the alternating groups attending in-person classes.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.1.2  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Account Deleted @8.1    4 years ago
"Instead, elementary schools will need to use a "cohort" immunity strategy. (Kind of like "herd" immunity.) Basically get it over with  - provide an environment were everyone in a cohort gets sick as soon as possible and then move on."

I don't believe it works that way.

 
 
 
Account Deleted
Freshman Silent
8.1.3  Account Deleted  replied to  Tessylo @8.1.2    4 years ago

I don't believe it to be a good idea but  if you do not quarantine, that's pretty much their strategy.

 
 
 
Account Deleted
Freshman Silent
8.1.4  Account Deleted  replied to  Kavika @8.1.1    4 years ago

I hope this is not a duplicate reply -

Social distancing and masks probably work pretty well at a HomeDepo environment with 30 foot ceilings where you are only in there for 20 minutes or so. But a classroom - for hours - with teachers and students talking - not so much.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8.1.5  Kavika   replied to  Account Deleted @8.1.4    4 years ago
But a classroom - for hours - with teachers and students talking - not so much.

I agree with you on that. It's a difficult situation any way you look at it. It would seem to me that if they are going to reopen the schools, that every precaution be taken. What they are at the moment is distancing and masks. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.1.6  TᵢG  replied to  Account Deleted @8.1.4    4 years ago

Other factors for classrooms are that the kids can be tested daily and that children are very resistant to the coronavirus.   A classroom of elementary kids is much safer than, say, a bunch of cubicles with working professionals on the job and that is safer than a group of elderly people engaging socially.

 
 
 
Account Deleted
Freshman Silent
8.1.7  Account Deleted  replied to  TᵢG @8.1.6    4 years ago

A classroom of elementary kids is much safer than, say, a bunch of cubicles with working professionals

Agreed. Though how well will masks and social distancing work in the classroom?

I think they are saying the infection rate of children exposed to the virus is only about 8%. But is that risk for the entire semester, or is that a single exposure rate each day? (Think about the survival rate of WWII American bomber crews. 90% chance of surviving each mission but they had to fly 25 or so missions. No - I'm not saying the kids will die - just miss school.)

So if you test and 1 student is positive - what is the drill? Quarantine the entire class and teacher? Quarantine only the student and their family?

A lot of teachers and administrators are trying to figure this out with only the partial data now available. I just can't predict that this will be better for the students and teachers than "Zooming".

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.1.8  TᵢG  replied to  Account Deleted @8.1.7    4 years ago
Though how well will masks and social distancing work in the classroom?

They will help, but my point is that the biology of the young children is actually the strongest factor.

So if you test and 1 student is positive - what is the drill? Quarantine the entire class and teacher? Quarantine only the student and their family?

I have no idea what they might do.   The point is that a good precaution is to test to gain information that then enables prudent action.

I just can't predict that this will be better for the students and teachers than "Zooming".

Hard to say.  Child development is complex.   College students can easily do zooming, but elementary school kids are all developing social skills, etc. at this age.   I do not know what implications this might have.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8.1.9  Kavika   replied to  TᵢG @8.1.8    4 years ago

Let's not assume that all children are healthy with no underlying conditions. Many children have underlying conditions, asthma for one. Also, we have teachers and I saw a report today that 1 in 4 teachers have some kind of underlying condition. 

This situation is highly complex and for every question, we think that we've answered more pop up.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.1.10  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  TᵢG @8.1.8    4 years ago

What implications?

ZOOMing is the reasonable way to go now.  

They can learn social skills outside of school.

It's not the job of teachers to do EVERYTHING.  

 
 
 
Account Deleted
Freshman Silent
8.1.11  Account Deleted  replied to  TᵢG @8.1.8    4 years ago

A year from now we will have the data to make the correct decision for today ...

 
 
 
Account Deleted
Freshman Silent
8.1.12  Account Deleted  replied to  Kavika @8.1.9    4 years ago

Looks like 1/3 of the teachers are 50 or older. Death rate for that group  is significantly greater (2%-4%)  than for the population as a whole and much greater that that of young students (close to 0). Assuming you don't get that sick, recovery is still longer for that age group. So what every they try to do in the classroom will be disrupted by intermittent and unpredictable absenteeism.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.1.13  TᵢG  replied to  Kavika @8.1.9    4 years ago
Let's not assume that all children are healthy with no underlying conditions.

I was speaking in very general terms.   There are always special cases in any scenario.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8.1.14  Kavika   replied to  TᵢG @8.1.13    4 years ago

My comment was not directed to you personally but to all of us not to forget those children that will require special handling. 

Then there are special needs children.

I really want to see the so-called ''powers that be'' take every child's situation into the equation. 

 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Participates
8.1.15  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Tessylo @8.1.2    4 years ago

Studies out of England are showing that you do not retain immunity if you recover.  They estimate that immunity may only last a few months.

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
Professor Quiet
8.1.16  Dean Moriarty  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @8.1.15    4 years ago

The monkey studies are showing protection and Fauci says it is reasonable to assume there is some level of protection with antibodies. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Participates
8.1.17  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Dean Moriarty @8.1.16    4 years ago

Yes, but it may be short lived immunity.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
8.1.18  Krishna  replied to  Account Deleted @8.1    4 years ago

Basically get it over with  - provide an environment were everyone in a cohort gets sick as soon as possible and then move on.

But what about when all these kids go home after school to their parents and siblings...?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9  seeder  Tessylo    4 years ago

107812219_10223869816953150_6854696412086891561_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=GfQHAlOLSXcAX9y6ldG&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=b8c81343ad7612e0d30db6fedb02a171&oe=5F2D74FF

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
10  charger 383    4 years ago

I don't think you can get elementary school kids to practice social distancing or wear a mask for a whole school day.    

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
10.1  Krishna  replied to  charger 383 @10    4 years ago

or wear a mask for a whole school day.    

I agree.

And anyway, we're not going to feed them all intravenously-- so they will have to remove masks when they eat lunch.

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
11  The Magic 8 Ball    4 years ago

and if trump delayed the opening of schools?

the left would have said trump failed to open schools on time.

but anyway...  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
11.1  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @11    4 years ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
11.1.1  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Tessylo @11.1    4 years ago

removed for context

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
11.1.2  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @11.1.1    4 years ago
(deleted)
 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
11.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @11    4 years ago

First off he can't, but secondly if he actually did that then for the first time in almost 4 years I would say he made the right call. 

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
11.2.1  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Thrawn 31 @11.2    4 years ago
First off he can't,

so trump cant delay the opening of schools, but the left is pissed at him for opening schools...

that seems about par for the course for today's left :)

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
11.2.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @11.2.1    4 years ago

He can't and he isn't. 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
11.2.3  Krishna  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @11.2.1    4 years ago

so trump cant delay the opening of schools, but the left is pissed at him for opening schools...

Nope.

They are pissed off at him for advocating the opening of schools. 

Since he's the President some people will assume he's being advised by competent professionals-- so if he advocates re-opening so strongly, some people will assume he's advocating a smart move-- and follow his lead.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
11.3  Thrawn 31  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @11    4 years ago
and if trump delayed the opening of schools?

He would have finally done something right. 

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
11.3.1  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Thrawn 31 @11.3    4 years ago
He would have finally done something right.

that some bs right there...  LOL

no matter which way trump went... the left would say it was wrong.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
11.3.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @11.3.1    4 years ago

Not true at all. It isn't my fault that he finds a way trip on his own clit when he does something as simple as sitting down. 

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
11.3.3  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Thrawn 31 @11.3.2    4 years ago
Not true at all.

[deleted]

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
11.3.4  Thrawn 31  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @11.3.3    4 years ago

I didn't think it was that funny, but okay I guess.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
11.3.5  XXJefferson51  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @11.3.1    4 years ago

That’s the bottom line!  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
11.3.6  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @11.3.1    4 years ago

"Texas Lt. Governor Is Determined To Sacrifice Everyone But Himself For GOP Convention"

These turds are going to be on video at the rnc convention in Jacksonsville, FL 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
11.3.7  Krishna  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @11.3.1    4 years ago

no matter which way trump went... the left would say it was wrong.

Well, at least there's one thing we can be grateful for: whichever way a Democratic politician goes..the right would never, ever, say they were wrong!

/sarc

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
11.4  XXJefferson51  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @11    4 years ago

They are going to say “ but Trump” no matter what he does.. it’s the haters way! 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
12  Kavika     4 years ago

A report from Manatee County Florida.

Almost 470 kids have tested positive for coronavirus in Manatee County, state says

The Bradenton Herald     12 hrs ago
Almost 470 kids have tested positive for coronavirus in Manatee County, state says
An additional 136 children in Manatee County have tested positive for COVID-19, according to the Florida Department of Health .

In a report dated Friday, the health department said a total of 468 children have tested positive for the novel coronavirus responsible for the COVID-19 respiratory disease.   A week earlier,   332 people 17 and younger had tested positive, according to the health department.

A total of 1,070 children have been tested in Manatee since the start of the pandemic, for a positivity rate of 43.7%, up from 35.7%, a week earlier.

By comparison, the county’s overall positivity rate as of Saturday was 9%. The county has a total of 4,632 cases, as of Sunday, meaning 10.1% of those who have tested positive in Manatee County were children.

Statewide, a total of 17,073 children have been infected with the coronavirus, or 24.2% of those tested. In Florida, 6.7% of those who have tested positive are children.

Four children have died.

 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
12.1  Krishna  replied to  Kavika @12    4 years ago

Almost 470 kids have tested positive for coronavirus in Manatee County, state says

And then there's the situations in the rest of the state:

Florida Sets Coronavirus Death Record, Hours After Gov. DeSantis Said State Had ‘Stabilized’

Florida set a new record for coronavirus deaths Tuesday,  one of several metrics that show the state’s coronavirus crisis is still getting worse, even as Gov. Ron DeSantis claimed at a news conference Monday afternoon that the state’s situation had “stabilized.”

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
13  seeder  Tessylo    4 years ago

107986388_732715054179872_8322067915404322937_o.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=G1AZipvUYswAX_kg10e&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=453c65d80510242519e96a41e522f551&oe=5F315E68

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Participates
13.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Tessylo @13    4 years ago

That should be a picture of either Trump or DeVos.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
13.1.1  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @13.1    4 years ago

True!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
13.1.2  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @13.1    4 years ago

Look at Melania and her 5 inch do me pumps and a gold shovel!

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
13.1.3  devangelical  replied to  Tessylo @13.1.2    4 years ago

....meh, she married a 4 inch pump......

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Participates
13.1.4  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  devangelical @13.1.3    4 years ago

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
13.2  Krishna  replied to  Tessylo @13    4 years ago

I think I recognize that woman. Isn't she the one that going around in a campaign to end  bullying?

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
14  Thrawn 31    4 years ago

When Baron Trump is enrolled and  walks through the doors of a public school that is fully opened during this pandemic, 5 days a week, the I might possibly start listening to the current administration. 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
14.1  Krishna  replied to  Thrawn 31 @14    4 years ago
When Baron Trump is enrolled and  walks through the doors of a public school that is fully opened during this pandemic, 5 days a week, the I might possibly start listening to the current administration. 

I don't know-- some people are saying that the schools near Mar a Lago are pretty good....???

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
15  Buzz of the Orient    4 years ago

There is only one common-sense solution to all of this...but unfortunately it's not the good old days....

Trump_on_a_rail.jpg?1477155371

Where's the tar and feathers?

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
15.1  XXJefferson51  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @15    4 years ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
16  seeder  Tessylo    4 years ago

What should be done to tRump I'm not allowed to say. . . It's got me suspended on Facebook for seven days and a comment I made about the couple that pointed their weapons on peaceful protesters got me suspended another seven days . . . but I digress . . . 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
16.1  XXJefferson51  replied to  Tessylo @16    4 years ago

That couple defending their place and themselves from the unruly mob in St. Louis did the right thing and showed the rest of the country how to deal with such demonstrations 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
16.1.1  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  XXJefferson51 @16.1    4 years ago

107813849_3134039596634026_1171367053101174858_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=3zQQDZBl99EAX_OQaqy&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=b71890a38a40bb390b7a40e6f4ad62c2&oe=5F327E37

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
16.1.2  Dulay  replied to  XXJefferson51 @16.1    4 years ago

Their weapons have been confiscated and they may face prosecution. jrSmiley_84_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
freepress
Freshman Silent
17  freepress    4 years ago

I guess after the veterans and grandparents in nursing homes abandoned to the virus, the switch is to send in the kids since they can't vote. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
18  seeder  Tessylo    4 years ago

108107792_10222868022190576_5819432083064965566_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=UMtG8eYzRhIAX_MTw2n&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=25c2230f81ffa848bebb6479b67ba77b&oe=5F329510

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
18.1  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Tessylo @18    4 years ago

It looks like rich bitch DeVos is working on funneling our tax dollars and all funding to charter and private and religious schools.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
20  seeder  Tessylo    4 years ago

107664837_3292655160755753_4065200049605665982_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=LcWVRKZuQwIAX_NRr6o&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=121302e64937d650413f07946b42dfb7&oe=5F33356B

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
21  seeder  Tessylo    4 years ago

109358843_3133016843402300_3971872726478529146_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=KzjPlVaFOTYAX-zVm7S&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=b62f4e10c7ffdd243642896df77e505b&oe=5F31E43E

 
 

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