AP investigation finds fewer than 200 cases of voter fraud out of 3.4 million ballots cast in Arizona presidential election

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  john-russell  •  2 weeks ago  •  167 comments

By:   MSN

AP investigation finds fewer than 200 cases of voter fraud out of 3.4 million ballots cast in Arizona presidential election
Arizona county election officials have identified fewer than 200 cases of potential voter fraud out of more than 3 million ballots cast in last year's presidential election, undercutting former President Donald Trump's claims of a stolen election as his allies continue a disputed ballot review in the state's most populous county.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



e151e5.gif© AP ASSOCIATED PRESS

PHOENIX (AP) — Arizona county election officials have identified fewer than 200 cases of potential voter fraud out of more than 3 million ballots cast in last year's presidential election, undercutting former President Donald Trump's claims of a stolen election as his allies continue a disputed ballot review in the state's most populous county.

An Associated Press investigation found 182 cases where problems were clear enough that officials referred them to investigators for further review. So far, only four cases have led to charges, including those identified in a separate state investigation. No one has been convicted. No person's vote was counted twice.

While it's possible more cases could emerge, the numbers illustrate the implausibility of Trump's claims that fraud and irregularities in Arizona cost him the state's electorate votes. In final, certified and audited results, Biden won 10,400 more votes than Trump out of 3.4 million cast.

AP's findings align with previous studies showing voter fraud is rare. Numerous safeguards are built into the system to not only prevent fraud from happening but to detect it when it does.

"The fact of the matter is that election officials across the state are highly invested in helping to ensure the integrity of our elections and the public's confidence in them," said Arizona Secretary of State Katie Hobbs, a Democrat. "And part of that entails taking potential voter fraud seriously."

Arizona's potential cases also illustrate another reality: Voter fraud is often bipartisan. Of the four Arizona cases that have resulted in criminal charges, two involved Democratic voters and two involved Republicans.

AP's review supports statements made by many state and local elections officials — and even some Republican county officials and GOP Gov. Doug Ducey — that Arizona's presidential election was secure and its results valid.

And still, Arizona's GOP-led state Senate has for months been conducting what it describes as a "forensic audit" of results in Phoenix's Maricopa County. The effort has been discredited by election experts and faced bipartisan criticism, but some Republicans, including Trump, have suggested it will uncover evidence of widespread fraud.

"This is not a massive issue," said Adrian Fontes, a Democrat who oversaw the Maricopa County election office during the 2020 election and lost his re-election bid. "It is a lie that has developed over time. It's been fed by conspiracy theorists."

The AP tallied the potential cases after submitting public record requests to all Arizona counties. Most counties — 11 out of 15 — reported they had forwarded no potential cases to local prosecutors. The majority of cases identified so far involve people casting a ballot for a relative who had died or people who tried to cast two ballots.

In addition to the AP's review of county election offices, an Election Integrity Unit of the state attorney general's office that was created in 2019 to ferret out fraud has been reviewing potential cases of fraud.

A spokesman for Attorney General Mark Brnovich told the AP in April that the unit had 21 active investigations, although he did not specify if all were from last fall.

A month later, the office indicted a woman for casting a ballot on behalf of her dead mother in November. A spokeswoman declined to provide updated information this week.

Maricopa County, which is subject to the disputed ballot review ordered by state Senate Republicans, has identified just one case of potential fraud out of 2.1 million ballots cast. That was a voter who might have cast a ballot in another state. The case was sent to the county attorney's office, which forwarded it to the state attorney general.

Virtually all the cases identified by county election officials are in Pima County, home to Tucson, and involved voters who attempted to cast two ballots.

The Pima County Recorder's Office has a practice of referring all cases with even a hint of potential fraud to prosecutors for review, something the state's 14 other county recorders do not do. Pima County officials forwarded 151 cases to prosecutors. They did not refer 25 others from voters over age 70 because there was a greater chance those errors — typically attempts to vote twice — were the result of memory lapses or confusion, not criminal intent, an election official said.

None of the 176 duplicate ballots was counted twice. A spokesman for the Pima County Attorney's Office, Joe Watson, said Wednesday that the 151 cases it received were still being reviewed and that no charges had been filed.

Pima County's tally was in line with previous elections, but there were some new patterns this year, said deputy recorder Pamela Franklin. An unusually high number of people appeared to have intentionally voted twice, often by voting early in person and then again by mail. In Arizona, where nearly 80% of voters cast ballots by mail, it's not unusual for someone to forget they returned their mail-in ballot and then later ask for a replacement or try to vote in person, she said. But this pattern was new.

Franklin noted several factors at play, including worries about U.S. Postal Service delays. In addition, Trump at one point encouraged voters who cast their ballots early by mail to show up at their polling places on Election Day and vote again if poll workers couldn't confirm their mail ballots had been received.

The results in Arizona are similar to early findings in other battleground states. Local election officials in Wisconsin identified just 27 potential cases of voter fraud out of 3.3 million ballots cast last November, according to records obtained by the AP under the state's open records law. Potential voter fraud cases in other states where Trump and his allies mounted challenges have so far amounted to just a tiny fraction of Trump's losing margin in those states.

The Associated Press conducted the review following months of Trump and his allies claiming without proof that he had won the 2020 election. His claims of widespread fraud have been rejected by election officials, judges, a group of election security officials and even Trump's own attorney general at the time. Even so, supporters continue to repeat them and they have been cited by state lawmakers as justification for tighter voting rules across the country.

In Arizona, Republican state lawmakers have used the unsubstantiated claims to justify the unprecedented outside Senate review of the election in Maricopa County and to pass legislation that could make it harder for infrequent voters to receive mail ballots automatically.

Senate President Karen Fann has repeatedly said her goal is not to overturn the election results. Instead, she has said she wants to find out if there were any problems and show voters who believe Trump's claims whether they should trust the results.

"Everybody keeps saying, 'Oh, there's no evidence' and it's like, 'Yeah well, let's do the audit.' And if there's nothing there, then we say, 'Look, there was nothing there,'" Fann told the AP in early May. "If we find something, and it's a big if, but if we find something, then we can say, 'OK, we do have evidence and now how do we fix this?'" Fann did not return calls this week to discuss the AP findings.

Aside from double voting, the cases flagged by officials mostly involved a ballot cast after someone had died, including three voters in Yavapai County who face felony charges for casting ballots for spouses who died before the election.

In Yuma County, one case of a voter attempting to cast two ballots was sent to the county attorney for review. Chief Civil Deputy William Kerekus told the AP that there was no intent at voter fraud and the case was closed without charges.

Cochise County Recorder David Stevens found mail-in ballots were received from two voters who died before mail ballots were sent in early October. Sheriff's deputies investigating the cases found their homes were vacant and closed the cases. The votes were not counted.

Continue ReadingShow full articles without "Continue Reading" button for {0} hours. Microsoft and partners may be compensated if you purchase something through recommended links in this article.


Tags

jrDiscussion - desc
[]
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  seeder  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

The Associated Press has been the gold standard for non partisan news reporting for well over 100 years in the United States and around the world. 

There is no voter fraud. Out of the 4 cases being prosecuted in Arizona, 2 were by Democrats and 2 were by Republicans. 

Trump is fuming again , complaining because Fox News reported this AP story. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Expert
1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 weeks ago

And by the same token, there is no voter suppression. Common sense rules and regulations to make the vote secure and fair is not voter suppression or Jim Crow 2.0

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
1.1.1  Split Personality  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    2 weeks ago
Common sense rules and regulations to make the vote secure and fair is not voter suppression or Jim Crow 2.0

Not everyone is complaining about those Greg. It's just the silly and vindictive rules.

Why eliminate drive through voting in TX when only apparently Democratic Counties employed this, if both sides benefit?

Why lower the days for a runoff in GA to 28 while keeping newly registered from voting for 29 days?  Coincidence after the Dems won 2 Senate seats recently? Probably not.

Why make it a felony for TX county election officials to continue to mail out applications for mail in ballots to those over 65?

With zero proof of fraud but an over abundance of caution because someone else might fill it out and mail it in, they make that convenience illegal and revert to the voter filling out a printable .pdf to either fax, scan or mail in (if the voter has a PC with a printer )  No more secure than before.

Some of the laws are just vindictive, again, GA, with notoriously long lines based on race, you can no longer approach a voter in line or offer food or water.  Do you honestly think the GOP led government of GA would have done that if they ended up with two GOP US Senators?

Taken collectively, the 89 pieces of legislation around the country by Red states just reeks of poor sportsmanship.  It's not a coincidence that minorities who feel like their entire lives are walking uphill, feel like the GOP just steepened the hill.

Remember, politics is perception, and sometimes that perception bites you in the ass.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
1.1.2  JBB  replied to  Split Personality @1.1.1    2 weeks ago

What the gop is doing in red states to make voting more difficult is not just mean spirited, it is bassackwards. At a time when we can safely and securely bank and do our taxes online, only to vote must we stand in lines...

I expect that people will crawl through broken glass to repudiate the damn gop in '22, again.

In normal times the gop would have a good chance to gain, butt they are shitting on us...

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Masters Guide
1.1.3  Thrawn 31  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    2 weeks ago

My whole position has always been “prove these measures are warranted.”

So far the GOP has failed miserably at this. 

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.4  Ozzwald  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    2 weeks ago

And by the same token, there is no voter suppression. Common sense rules and regulations to make the vote secure and fair is not voter suppression or Jim Crow 2.0

Please justify the law in Georgia that prohibits Johnny from giving a bottle of water to his grandma, who has been standing in line to vote for 2 hours.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.1.5  Ender  replied to  Split Personality @1.1.1    2 weeks ago
while keeping newly registered from voting for 29 days?

Ridiculous. Here is your drivers license, now you can't drive for 29 days...

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Expert
1.1.6  Greg Jones  replied to  Split Personality @1.1.1    2 weeks ago
It's not a coincidence that minorities who feel like their entire lives are walking uphill, feel like the GOP just steepened the hill.

It's never been easier to vote, and that includes minorities.

None of these laws make it more it more difficult for anyone to vote.

cb071721dAPC20210716104507.jpg

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Expert
1.1.7  Greg Jones  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.4    2 weeks ago
Please justify the law in Georgia that prohibits Johnny from giving a bottle of water to his grandma, who has been standing in line to vote for 2 hours.

The law doesn't prohibit that, just electioneering at the polls.

With all the days and times available to vote, she should have planned better...and brought water and snacks.

 

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.8  Ozzwald  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.7    2 weeks ago
The law doesn't prohibit that, just electioneering at the polls.

You need to reread the law.

With all the days and times available to vote, she should have planned better...and brought water and snacks.

And back to blaming the victim.  She should have known that it would take hours and hours to cast your vote in Georgia.  Right???

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Expert
1.1.9  Greg Jones  replied to  Thrawn 31 @1.1.3    2 weeks ago

Is HR-1 warranted? Which would give the Feds control of elections in the states?

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Expert
1.1.10  Greg Jones  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.8    2 weeks ago

You are confused...there are not victims here, and no evidence of ANY voter suppression.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.11  Tessylo  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    2 weeks ago

209429002_10223479410191481_2108562198623294706_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=bW9BNzFyUC8AX-gnKKW&tn=ddyv9WRSVi2y4Anp&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=76a9b9a3260b20b4a45c0539ab023969&oe=60FB65B0

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.12  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.11    2 weeks ago

all white suburbs most likely. 

 
 
 
squiggy
Freshman Quiet
1.1.14  squiggy  replied to  Ender @1.1.5    2 weeks ago

"Here is your drivers license, now you can't drive for 29 days..."

"Thank you for buying your new Winchester. Now you can pick it up in three days." - common sense controls, you know.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.1.15  Ender  replied to  squiggy @1.1.14    2 weeks ago

Is it common sense to make people that registered not be able to vote in the current election?

Because that is what you are championing.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.16  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.12    2 weeks ago

Hey, as a famous Democrat put it--elections have consequences!!

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Principal
1.1.17  Raven Wing  replied to  Ender @1.1.15    2 weeks ago

You can bet your last sip of water that if it was them who are being denied their right to vote they would be up in arms in protests. But, as long as it is those they consider unworthy and unfit to vote they think they have the right to deny them their own right to vote unless they are willing to vote the way the deniers want them to. For every one of those they deny their right to vote they should have one of their own denied their right to vote as well. Let's see how well they accept those terms.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.18  Texan1211  replied to  Raven Wing @1.1.17    2 weeks ago

And yet, for all the whining, no one has been denied their legal right to vote.

Democratic fearmongering is in overdrive.

 
 
 
squiggy
Freshman Quiet
1.1.19  squiggy  replied to  Ender @1.1.15    2 weeks ago

Take your words and go away, I'm opposed to diminishing any right.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.1.20  Ender  replied to  squiggy @1.1.19    2 weeks ago

Yet you are for this, which is nothing but barriers and speedbumps.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
1.1.21  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.18    2 weeks ago
no one has been denied their legal right to vote.

A report from 1998 estimated that 3.9 million Americans (2 percent of the eligible voting population) could not vote because of laws disenfranchising those with felony convictions. (Human Rights Watch and the Sentencing Project,  Losing the Vote: The Impact of Felony Disenfranchisement Laws in the United States , 1998.) Of that 3.9 million, 1.4 million were black men, which represented at that time 13 percent of all adult black men and reflected “a rate of disenfranchisement that is seven times the national average”.

Stunningly, most of those disenfranchised in 2016, more than 3 million people, had completed their sentence. ( Id . at Figure 1.) Provisions for re-enfranchisement vary widely across states. A number of states restore voting rights when an individual leaves prison. Others restore voting rights after an individual completes probation or parole. In many states, however, voting rights cannot be restored until someone has not only been released from incarceration and/or completed probation and parole, but also paid all fines and fees resulting from their criminal case .

In short, in 30 states individuals are being denied the right to vote because they have not yet paid criminal justice debt. And there is every reason to believe that they have not repaid this debt because they simply cannot afford to pay.

Should those who have served their time but not been able to afford the fines they were levied be stripped of their right to vote?

There are many States that will not renew a State Drivers license or State ID with unpaid parking tickets or moving violations. Should those people be denied their right to vote because they owe fines?

Should those who poor and can't afford the fee required for getting a valid photo ID in their State be denied the right to vote?

Some piece of shits think so, they apparently think voting is only a "right" if you can afford it and have had your record scrubbed clean by a wealthy parent using generationally gained money to bail their ass out of jail and pay any fines when they do something wrong. This is a luxury only some can afford. Considering the facts behind the racial inequity of our justice system it seem obvious that the system is rigged to disenfranchise minority voters.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.22  Texan1211  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.1.21    2 weeks ago
A report from 1998 estimated that 3.9 million Americans (2 percent of the eligible voting population) could not vote because of laws disenfranchising those with felony convictions.

Which only proves my point that no one has been denied their legal right to vote.

Thank you.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Sophomore Quiet
1.1.23  Jack_TX  replied to  Split Personality @1.1.1    2 weeks ago
Why eliminate drive through voting in TX when only apparently Democratic Counties employed this, if both sides benefit?

Because it was only ever an emergency accommodation for Covid, which is no longer needed.   Same thing with 24 hour voting.

Why make it a felony for TX county election officials to continue to mail out applications for mail in ballots to those over 65?

The rule as I understand it will be that they can only send you a mail in ballot if you request one.  Presumably they'll only accept those they know they've sent.

Some of the laws are just vindictive, again, GA, with notoriously long lines based on race, you can no longer approach a voter in line or offer food or water.  Do you honestly think the GOP led government of GA would have done that if they ended up with two GOP US Senators?

It is illegal to campaign that close to polling location, and there is zero chance that food and water will not be offered in an attempt to influence voters.  There is also zero chance we'll be able to police that.

With zero proof of fraud 

If we had 150 assaults at voting locations on election day in any state, everybody would be demanding systemic changes to keep that from recurring.  If 150 cars were stolen, we'd be guarding the parking lots.  If 150 people had their pockets picked, action would be taken.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.24  Tessylo  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.23    2 weeks ago

Projection, deflection, and denial.  Good job!

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Sophomore Quiet
1.1.25  Jack_TX  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.8    2 weeks ago
And back to blaming the victim.

Wait.....so now if people do not give me free water and snacks I'm a "victim"?  

That's hilarious.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.26  Tessylo  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.25    2 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.27  Tessylo  replied to  squiggy @1.1.14    2 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
1.1.28  Split Personality  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.23    2 weeks ago

Welcome back, Jack, jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.29  Trout Giggles  replied to  Split Personality @1.1.1    one week ago
It's not a coincidence that minorities who feel like their entire lives are walking uphill, feel like the GOP just steepened the hill.

Plus the GOP added 5 feet of snow

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.30  Trout Giggles  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.23    one week ago
Because it was only ever an emergency accommodation for Covid, which is no longer needed. 

I think I would take a wait and see attitude on that....

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
1.1.31  Split Personality  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.23    one week ago
Because it was only ever an emergency accommodation for Covid, which is no longer needed. 

I would take issue with "which is no longer needed."

 Same thing with 24 hour voting.

Same issue.

And I would continue to argue that if Trump had won the popular and electoral vote,

not one state would be changing or tinkering with any election laws.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Sophomore Quiet
1.1.32  Jack_TX  replied to  Split Personality @1.1.31    one week ago
I would take issue with "which is no longer needed."

We've managed every prior election without them.  People managed to get out of their cars, even in broad daylight.  

And I would continue to argue that if Trump had won the popular and electoral vote, not one state would be changing or tinkering with any election laws.

I dunno.  The losers always bitch and moan about how unfair it all was.  Look at the shitstorm surrounding Facebook when Trump won, or the screams and wails for election overhauls after the whole hanging chad fiasco.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
1.1.33  Split Personality  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.32    one week ago

and here comes the virus variants again, for how long?

It's partisan, pure and simple.

The losers always bitch and moan about how unfair it all was.

True, but if the Dems had lost, they would have no control in Austin to pull this nonsense. None at all.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Sophomore Quiet
1.1.34  Jack_TX  replied to  Split Personality @1.1.33    5 days ago
and here comes the virus variants again, for how long?

Which would obviously change the discussion, but I still don't think we re-introduce 24 hr or drive through.

It's partisan, pure and simple.

It's in response to partisanship, outlawing actions that created an electoral advantage for the party in power in Harris County.  So yeah, it's partisan, but it's also anti-partisan.  

Harris County sent unsolicited mail-in ballots to everybody.  They are able to do that because they're the largest county in Texas and have that kind of cash.  They run drive-through and 24 hour voting, again because they're big enough to get election volunteers to man those stations.

But what about someplace like Bosque County or Panola County or Lubbock County?  They don't have that kind of cash, and they can't get election volunteers for 3am.

So now you've created a situation where Harris County residents have election rights no other county can provide.  That's hardly fair.  If heavily Republican precincts started a program where they offered concierge ballot delivery service to nursing home residents that they advertised on Fox News, you'd rightfully call bullshit on that.

What we need is a standardized process that affords everybody the same reasonable opportunity to vote easily.  I don't necessarily think this bill represents such a plan, but it's certainly not "Jim Crow 2.0" or any other such ridiculous nonsense being described by Texas Democrats.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
1.1.35  Split Personality  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.34    5 days ago
So now you've created a situation where Harris County residents have election rights no other county can provide.  That's hardly fair.  If heavily Republican precincts started a program where they offered concierge ballot delivery service to nursing home residents that they advertised on Fox News, you'd rightfully call bullshit on that.

Wrong

Tarrant County also sends out unsolicited prefilled mail in ballot applications  to 65 year old like my wife and I.

Have for at least six years. Didn't phase them or stop them when Trump won...

They also had drive through voting and drive through vaccinations in 2020/2021.

The government SHOULD BE making things easier for people regardless of the pandemic

to foster more voting, which is pretty pathetic nation wide.

But what about someplace like Bosque County or Panola County or Lubbock County?  They don't have that kind of cash, and they can't get election volunteers for 3am.

They do the best they can under the circumstances.

What we need is a standardized process that affords everybody the same reasonable opportunity to vote easily.  I don't necessarily think this bill represents such a plan, but it's certainly not "Jim Crow 2.0" or any other such ridiculous nonsense being described by Texas Democrats.

I agree, but all partisans exaggerate like their opposites, it doesn't take much of a filter to sort out the obvious.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
1.1.36  Krishna  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.23    5 days ago
an emergency accommodation for Covid, which is no longer needed. 

Have you looked at the recent figures for the number of new cases not that the latest variant is spreading rapidly?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Sophomore Quiet
1.1.37  Jack_TX  replied to  Split Personality @1.1.35    4 days ago
Wrong Tarrant County also sends out unsolicited prefilled mail in ballot applications  to 65 year old like my wife and I.

OK.... Harris County residents have elections rights "most" other counties cannot provide. 

The government SHOULD BE making things easier for people regardless of the pandemic

Election officials should have a standardized system that makes it easy to vote.   That system should be the same, regardless of income, race, language, or whatever.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Sophomore Quiet
1.1.38  Jack_TX  replied to  Krishna @1.1.36    4 days ago
Have you looked at the recent figures for the number of new cases not that the latest variant is spreading rapidly?

Yes.  But that doesn't really impact the parity aspect.  

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
1.1.39  Split Personality  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.37    4 days ago

Then it becomes a density issue? 

I bet if each county had a drive through at their Election Board office like Tarrant did,

they could close a bunch of locations like Tarrant did.  I don't think the drive through option is more expensive

and probably 2/3s of Texans live in barely populated counties and have to drive to the election Offfic anyway.

Density tends to be Democratic.

Then I understand why GA's lines were so long and our dense counties will follow suit.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Sophomore Quiet
1.1.40  Jack_TX  replied to  Split Personality @1.1.39    2 days ago
Then it becomes a density issue? 

In a way, yes.  Texas elections are funded by state grant, which is paid per registration activity (new, cancel, update, etc).  Places like Harris County are going to have a lot more activity, so they're going to get vastly higher amounts of money.

I bet if each county had a drive through at their Election Board office like Tarrant did, they could close a bunch of locations like Tarrant did.  I don't think the drive through option is more expensive and probably 2/3s of Texans live in barely populated counties and have to drive to the election Offfic anyway.

There are certainly some positives to the idea.

Density tends to be Democratic.  Then I understand why GA's lines were so long and our dense counties will follow suit.

Democratic voters are notoriously unreliable. You never know when they're going to feel like coming out in big numbers, so it's harder to plan for that.

IMHO, the key here is a uniform long window for early voting.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
1.1.41  Split Personality  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.40    2 days ago
Democratic voters are notoriously unreliable. You never know when they're going to feel like coming out in big numbers, so it's harder to plan for that.

I was looking at data relative to the "slave auction" story about Traverse city.

Voter registration is about 55/45 favoring the GOP but 2/3s of the Dems stayed home while 2/3s of the Rep's voted.

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Junior Silent
1.2  SteevieGee  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 weeks ago

I trust the AP.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.2.2  Tessylo  replied to    2 weeks ago

Is that you BF?

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
Professor Guide
1.3  Freedom Warrior  replied to  JohnRussell @1    one week ago

Looks like it’s time do you certify the Arizona election results and probably several other states

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
Professor Guide
1.4  Freedom Warrior  replied to  JohnRussell @1    one week ago

Looks like it’s time do you certify the Arizona election results and probably several other states

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
2  Gordy327    2 weeks ago

Wow, 200 cases? So Trump was right and the election was stolen. Oh wait.... Lol

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Masters Guide
2.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  Gordy327 @2    2 weeks ago

Hey, that’s .000001% of the votes, more than enough to swing the election results!

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
2.1.1  Gordy327  replied to  Thrawn 31 @2.1    2 weeks ago

You forgot the "jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif " Lol

 
 
 
dennis smith
Masters Silent
2.2  dennis smith  replied to  Gordy327 @2    2 weeks ago

So every vote does NOT count. Failed attempt at spin/deflection from voter fraud. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.1  TᵢG  replied to  dennis smith @2.2    2 weeks ago

Really, you cannot comprehend that the point is that some minor fraud / error will occur in any large scale election but that, yet again, there is no evidence to support Trump's big lie that there was massive fraud that changed the result of the election.

You get that, right?  

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
2.2.2  Gordy327  replied to  dennis smith @2.2    2 weeks ago

Is that what you took away from my post? Seriously?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2.3  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.1    2 weeks ago

Four people have been criminally charged. The rest of the "200" may be instances where someone voted "illegally" but without bad intention. The article says no "double votes" were counted, so if an elderly person who lives alone forgot they had voted already during early voting went to the polling place on election day and tried to vote again they were caught by the system and reported as possible voter fraud. We dont hear a lot about this sort of thing in the news because it doesnt effect the outcome of elections where there were 3 million votes. 

 
 
 
dennis smith
Masters Silent
2.2.4  dennis smith  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.1    2 weeks ago

Dems have denied voter fraud happened in the last election. Now that it has been proved they have flip flopped and say there is voter fraud.

They lied and are called on it and then some try to deflect from what actually ahppened.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.5  TᵢG  replied to  dennis smith @2.2.4    2 weeks ago

Who cares what the Ds did?   What matters is truth.

Do you care to be correct or would you rather be wrong just to be conforming to a party?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2.7  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  dennis smith @2.2.4    2 weeks ago

According to the AP story four people have been charged with a crime. 2 Democrats and 2 Republicans.  Out of 3.4 million votes.  That IS nothing. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.2.8  Texan1211  replied to  dennis smith @2.2.4    2 weeks ago

Haven't most progressive liberals been claiming that there simply is NO election fraud?

Weird that they now admit that it does happen.

About fucking time.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.2.9  Texan1211  replied to  dennis smith @2.2.4    2 weeks ago
Dems have denied voter fraud happened in the last election. Now that it has been proved they have flip flopped and say there is voter fraud.

Just like some Democrats who have railed against voter ID all along and suddenly have decided that they were never, ever against it at all and fully supported it the entire time!

Bunch of freaking hypocrites!

 
 
 
Thomas
Sophomore Guide
2.2.10  Thomas  replied to  Texan1211 @2.2.8    2 weeks ago

Woof!

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.2.11  Ozzwald  replied to  dennis smith @2.2    2 weeks ago
So every vote does NOT count.

That is correct, but due to the electoral college, not any voter fraud.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.12  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @2.2.8    2 weeks ago
Haven't most progressive liberals been claiming that there simply is NO election fraud?

No, they have not.   The claim has been that no evidence of fraud that could change the results of the election has been found.

No doubt that qualification was stated to preemptively deal with people who would try to ‘win’ a point by going to ridiculous extremes.  Apparently the qualification is just ignored.

No, Texan, most everyone realizes that in every large scale election there will be some small percentage of fraud and error.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.2.13  Ozzwald  replied to  Texan1211 @2.2.8    2 weeks ago
Haven't most progressive liberals been claiming that there simply is NO election fraud?

Of course not.  Time after time there have been arrests and documentations of election fraud by republicans.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
2.2.14  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @2.2.8    2 weeks ago

Who specifically has been saying there is no election fraud? There is certainly NO fraud on the level Trump or some of his followers have claimed, that being significant enough to "steal the election" or otherwise alter the outcome in any meaningful way. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.2.15  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @2.2.14    2 weeks ago
Who specifically has been saying there is no election fraud?

Progressive liberals.

Please tell me this isn't going to be like the Democrats who opposed voter ID but suddenly have switched horses midstream and now are trying to claim they were never against it.

I made no claims about the amount of illegal votes, only that it does happen.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
2.2.16  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @2.2.15    2 weeks ago
Progressive liberals. Please tell me this isn't going to be like the Democrats who opposed voter ID but suddenly have switched horses midstream and now are trying to claim they were never against it.

Since I'm neither a liberal or a democrat, I'm not sure why  you're addressing that to me.

I made no claims about the amount of illegal votes, only that it does happen.

No one is disputing that illegal voting can and does happen. What is disputable is the extent of illegal voting. Especially the claims made (mostly by Trump and his supporters) that illegal or fraudulent voting was enough to significantly impact the election results.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.2.17  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @2.2.16    2 weeks ago
Since I'm neither a liberal or a democrat, I'm not sure why  you're addressing that to me.

Let's see if we can figure that out together.

Hmmmmmm.................could it POSSIBLY be because of this?

Who specifically has been saying there is no election fraud? 
 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
2.2.18  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @2.2.17    2 weeks ago
Let's see if we can figure that out together.

You go right ahead.

Who specifically has been saying there is no election fraud? 

Are you going to answer the question?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.2.19  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @2.2.18    2 weeks ago
You go right ahead.

Uh, I did. Did you miss that somehow??????

Are you going to answer the question?

Uh, I did. Did you ALSO miss THAT somehow?

Are you reading my posts?

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
2.2.20  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @2.2.19    2 weeks ago

I asked for specifics, not baseless generalizations. Perhaps you missed that!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.2.21  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @2.2.20    2 weeks ago

Asked and answered.

Now, if there is anything else?

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
2.2.22  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @2.2.21    2 weeks ago

Nothing else, since you've given nothing to begin with.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Masters Silent
2.2.23  dennis smith  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.5    2 weeks ago

The truth is that voter fraud is not acceptable and dems and their supporters have said there was no voter fraud and now that it has been proven, they spin/deflect to say it is okay because there isn't much of it. 

NO voter fraud is acceptable.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Masters Silent
2.2.24  dennis smith  replied to  Texan1211 @2.2.19    2 weeks ago

Per 2.2.18, some have difficulty understanding when their question is answered so they continue to ask it over and over 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.25  TᵢG  replied to  dennis smith @2.2.23    2 weeks ago
NO voter fraud is acceptable.

Who here has claimed that voter fraud is acceptable?

See, Dennis, you have produced what is known as a strawman.   Typically some resort to that slimy tactic when they have no honest rebuttal and must resort to dishonesty.

... their supporters have said there was no voter fraud ...

Who has claimed that there was NO voter fraud?

Use your brain.   What functioning adult thinks that a major election will be 100% virgin pure without any fraud or errors?   In the last election there were approximately 159+ million Americans voting.   How does your mind even conceive of the notion that any thinking adult believes that nothing went wrong?

Think.    If someone actually believes that out of almost 160 million votes that nobody attempted fraud and no errors were made then that individual is a fool.   And it is utterly foolish to believe that Biden supporters, as a rule or even as a minority, hold that NO voter fraud occured.

See?

The claim is that there is no evidence of fraud at a level that would have any impact on the results of the election.   Try to memorize that for next time.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.2.26  Ozzwald  replied to  dennis smith @2.2.23    2 weeks ago

NO voter fraud is acceptable.

No crime is acceptable, yet it still happens.  You can't stop all voter fraud, but when a law disenfranchises more voters, than you show have committed fraud, something is woefully wrong with that law.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.2.27  Texan1211  replied to  dennis smith @2.2.24    2 weeks ago
Per 2.2.18, some have difficulty understanding when their question is answered so they continue to ask it over and over 

A little strange, isn't  it?

 
 
 
devangelical
PhD Principal
2.3  devangelical  replied to  Gordy327 @2    2 weeks ago

gee, that's 1 dead republican voter out of every every 17,000 votes cast. stop the steal!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.3.1  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @2.3    2 weeks ago
gee, that's 1 dead republican voter out of every every 17,000 votes cast. stop the steal!

Gee, only about 16,000 more to go to get up to Democratic Party standards!

 
 
 
dennis smith
Masters Silent
2.3.2  dennis smith  replied to  Texan1211 @2.3.1    2 weeks ago

Perhaps the Dem Texans who fled their state and have COVID and those they had meetings with in DC will be the next to die.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Masters Guide
3  Thrawn 31    2 weeks ago

God that “audit” is embarrassing. Apparently now they need even more files and even more time to finish, never mind that they were supposed to be done a month and a half ago. They are grifters pure and simple and have no idea why they are doing. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
3.1  Gordy327  replied to  Thrawn 31 @3    2 weeks ago
God that “audit” is embarrassing.

Watch, some might start claiming "the audit was stolen" next, Lol

Apparently now they need even more files and even more time to finish, never mind that they were supposed to be done a month and a half ago.

This is 9 months after the election too. At this point, it's time to give it up.

 
 
 
Hallux
Freshman Principal
4  Hallux    2 weeks ago

Meh, Associated Press is a radical center news outlet.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
5  bbl-1    2 weeks ago

According to a news site from Slovenia, of the 197 discredited votes, 196 were for Trump and 1 was for Kanye West.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1  Texan1211  replied to  bbl-1 @5    2 weeks ago
According to a news site from Slovenia, of the 197 discredited votes, 196 were for Trump and 1 was for Kanye West.

Oh, not getting the news from the late-night comedians any more?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6  Kavika     2 weeks ago

Fake news, everyone knows the election was stolen and the AP is part of the deep state. /s

I had to put the sarcasm sign there cuz some maroon on NT would believe it.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Masters Guide
6.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  Kavika @6    2 weeks ago

[Removed]

 
 
 
Snuffy
Junior Quiet
7  Snuffy    2 weeks ago
In final, certified and audited results, Biden won 10,400 more votes than Trump out of 3.4 million cast.

What this article fails to touch on is that the auditors have found approx 74,000 mail-in ballots that do not have the corresponding records of the ballot being sent out.

In a briefing at the state Senate, the auditors said they still need more data from the county and access to voters. Doug Logan, who runs Cyber Ninjas, the firm in charge of the audit, says he needs to talk with up to 74,000 voters. Logan claims there is no record the mail-in ballots were ever sent out. "It is a way to know for sure whether some of the data we're seeing is a real problem or a clerical error,” Logan said.

While I doubt if the auditors will be given the approval to actually talk with the voters,  and that they do admit the discrepancy in the count could be simple clerical error,  the number is large enough to cause concern and should be explained. Future elections will need stronger processes and accounting to prevent this from occurring in future elections.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Snuffy @7    2 weeks ago

You left out the most important sentence in the ABC15 (Phoenix television station) article. 

ABC15 determined and verified with county election officials that the 74,000 voters Logan is referring to voted in person in the last week of the November election.

You believe the crackpot grifters of Cyber Ninjas and I'll believe the county election board and the Phoenix television station. 

Some people are far too willing to take the proclamation of conspiracy theorists at face value. 

 
 
 
Snuffy
Junior Quiet
7.1.1  Snuffy  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1    2 weeks ago

That's why I included the link so that people could read the entire article. You have now posted a he said/she said argument. I don't trust the cyber Ninja's any more than I trust the Maricopa election officials (and I live in Maricopa County). I didn't fucking say I believed any single theory over another, all I did was point out the article you seeded in this didn't include that information. So it looks to me like you are guilty of taking one theory at face value over another. 

Will any of this make any difference in the 2020 election?  NO!!   Don't care about that election anymore. It's done, over with. But if there are questions that need to be answered there is still work to be done for future elections. Just having a county office come out and say something and a news station saying "yep,  you're right" is not showing proof.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Snuffy @7.1.1    2 weeks ago

Its not a "he said, she said" argument.  Saying it is is how we end up with tens of millions of Americans who will believe any conspiracy theory they see. 

Cyber Ninjas took something that is not an issue , that in one mode of counting (an unofficial one used for the political parties to track early voting turnout) two sets of numbers dont match up, and are not expected to, and have tried to make it look suspicious.

The reports don’t represent all mail-in ballots sent out and received, so the numbers aren’t expected to match up, according to Maricopa County officials and outside experts.

Your problem is you want to give a conspiracy group ( Logan is a vocal Trump supporter) equal claim on the facts as people entrusted by the people of Arizona to run elections.  That is NOT a reasonable point of view. 

 
 
 
Snuffy
Junior Quiet
7.1.3  Snuffy  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.2    2 weeks ago
Your problem is you want to give a conspiracy group ( Logan is a vocal Trump supporter) equal claim on the facts as people entrusted by the people of Arizona to run elections.  That is NOT a reasonable point of view. 

To you it's not. I live in Maricopa County and I do not trust our elected officials and the way they run their offices. There is way too much partisan politics towards both sides. IMO the Maricopa Country elections office is just as biased as Cyber Ninjas, just not paid as well. 

And  you're statement was most definitely a 'he said / she said' argument because you have no proof of anything here other than the news articles you read and/or post. You have no more proof of any of this than I do, you are taking the word of one side of the argument. I'm saying both sides are problematic. Either side wants me to believe them then they need to put the proof into the public sphere. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.4  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Snuffy @7.1.3    2 weeks ago

I dont trust the officials in Dogpatch Oklahoma where Trump got 95% of the vote. Let's have an audit there.  Here there and everywhere.  Right wing conspiracy theorists will drive this country insane. 

 
 
 
Snuffy
Junior Quiet
7.1.5  Snuffy  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.4    2 weeks ago

You cannot see my point of view because of  your own partisan bias. I'm not trying to give a conspiracy group any equal claim,  I'm stating neither side is worthy of my trust in the first place. You want to read my comments as being pro-Trump because I'm not firmly on your bandwagon. You seem to refuse to accept that I'm not pro-Trump. I'm also not pro-Biden. I'm not pro-Republican or pro-Democrat.  Like most people in this country I'm a mix of all the different pieces. I did like some of the policies that the Trump administration put forth but just because I'm not jumping up and down demanding his crucifixion you seem to think that I'm on his side. I'm not on his side because he's not on my side. Hell,  I liked some of the policies that Obama put forth, doesn't mean I'm going to invite him to dinner.

This election bullshit is going to continue on until we the People take back our elections and our government. I don't know how to do that short of a revolution and I'm definitely not advocating for that. But IMO as long as you continue to argue from a partisan bias you are only another piece of the problem that will continue until the population wakes up and takes back control of the government. The government is not going to willingly give up control, there's too much money and power in it. And corporations go right along because of the same reasons. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.6  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Snuffy @7.1.5    2 weeks ago

Your comment represents a major problem in this country over the last ten years or so - the idea that every opinion is as good or valid as another. 

You say Trump had good ideas and bad ideas, just like Obama, thus the implication that were equally qualified or fit to be president of the United States. That is complete nonsense. A homeless derelict or a neo Nazi could both conceivably have "good ideas and bad ideas" , so are they equally fit to be president as well? 

Trump was , without a shadow of a doubt, the most unfit person to ever hold the office of president of the United States.  That means nothing to you because you think he had some good ideas or policies?

I actually fear for the future of this country, and feel bad for myself (and millions of others that are no longer young) that we will likely have to live the rest of our lives in a country where the truth is whatever a bunch of disgruntled and deluded cult followers want it to be. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.7  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.6    2 weeks ago
I actually fear for the future of this country, and feel bad for myself (and millions of others that are no longer young) that we will likely have to live the rest of our lives in a country where the truth is whatever a bunch of disgruntled and deluded cult followers want it to be. 

Well said.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Junior Quiet
7.1.8  Snuffy  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.6    2 weeks ago
You say Trump had good ideas and bad ideas, just like Obama, thus the implication that were equally qualified or fit to be president of the United States. That is complete nonsense. A homeless derelict or a neo Nazi could both conceivably have "good ideas and bad ideas" , so are they equally fit to be president as well? 

This is how you continue to show your partisan bias.  Nowhere did I talk about Trump or Obama being equal, being equally qualified, or being fit to be the President.  Since when does a good idea only come from a "good" person?  

Trump was , without a shadow of a doubt, the most unfit person to ever hold the office of president of the United States.  That means nothing to you because you think he had some good ideas or policies?

The bold above is mine.  You don't know what I think here because you don't know me. All you continue to show is that you cannot have a conversation without tossing in how unfit Trump is for the office and use that to attack someone.  Good ideas are just that, good ideas.  Doesn't matter who they come from.  Same thing with bad ideas.  

If  you were suffering from dehydration, would you refuse a glass of water just because it was Trump handing it to you?

I actually fear for the future of this country, and feel bad for myself (and millions of others that are no longer young) that we will likely have to live the rest of our lives in a country where the truth is whatever a bunch of disgruntled and deluded cult followers want it to be. 

As do I. The difference is that I see the disgruntled and deluded extremists from both sides as the problem. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
7.1.9  Split Personality  replied to  Snuffy @7.1.1    2 weeks ago

It's larger than "he said she said", to date, concession has kept this country viable for 45 election cycles.

It's customary to concede with grace...

After five weeks of messy vote counting and recounting and countless legal maneuvers, the federal case of Bush v. Gore reached the U.S. Supreme Court, which ruled 5-4 that the Florida fracas should stop. Gore could have carried his case further, to the House and Senate and the public at large. But he decided that while his prospects of success were uncertain, the costs and dangers were too high.

"Just moments ago, I spoke with George W. Bush and congratulated him on becoming the 43rd president of the United States, and I promised him that I wouldn't call him back this time," Gore said .

Gore also quoted Stephen Douglas, who lost to Abraham Lincoln in the fateful election of 1860: "Partisan feeling must yield to patriotism," Douglas wrote then. "I'm with you Mr. President, and God bless you."

Douglas was as good as his word. He not only conceded but embarked on a speaking tour of the South to urge his fellow Democrats to accept the election outcome and " preserve the Union ."

Douglas was not successful. Eleven states seceded, and the Civil War ensued. But his effort was more than a beau geste — it was a statement of the importance of abiding by the popular will in a democracy.

This has been at the essence of the concession all along. It is not just one 19th-century gentleman bowing to another; it is the affirmation of what the Founders had in mind when they rebelled against the crown of England in the name of "the people."

Gore's decision and concession ended the standoff and allowed a measure of healing to begin. It illustrated and amplified the value of the concession tradition, which has deep roots in U.S. history and has provided ineffable benefits at fraught moments in the past.

"When it comes down to it, it's not the Army or the Navy that keeps the United States together," John R. Vile, a professor of history at Middle Tennessee State University who is a student of the concession, told National Geographic magazine . " It's the notion that we are bound together by certain great principles and that our similarities are more binding than our differences are. "

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.10  Texan1211  replied to  Snuffy @7.1.8    2 weeks ago

Might as well give it up.

If you haven't hopped aboard the "I Hate Trump" train yet, well, then to some folks that automatically makes you a Trump loyalist. 

Dissenting views not accepted!

 
 
 
bugsy
PhD Guide
7.1.11  bugsy  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.10    2 weeks ago
makes you a Trump loyalist. 

Which then almost immediately makes you a racist to most leftists. There is no other alternative to them.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.12  Texan1211  replied to  bugsy @7.1.11    2 weeks ago

if not for projection, how could they communicate?

 
 
 
dennis smith
Masters Silent
7.1.13  dennis smith  replied to  Snuffy @7.1.3    2 weeks ago

You see two sides to a story, some who have blinders refuse to see that. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Snuffy @7    2 weeks ago

FACT FOCUS: A false narrative of 74K extra votes in Arizona

1200x0.jpg

Cyber Ninjas, the cybersecurity consulting firm hired by Arizona Senate Republicans to oversee a partisan review of the 2020 election, on Thursday pushed a false narrative that Maricopa County received thousands of mail-in ballots that had no record of being sent out to voters.

The firm's CEO Doug Logan used the baseless claim to urge legislators to subpoena more records and canvass voters at home, grasping for evidence of fraud even as a hand count of a statistical sample of ballots and two post-election audits showed no proof of wrongdoing in Maricopa County’s election.

The false claim has reverberated online in the day since Logan's comments, parroted by lawmakers and Republican commentators including Arizona Republican Party Chair Kelli Ward, Colorado Rep. Lauren Boebert and former President Donald Trump.

Yet Maricopa County officials and election experts confirm that the claim isn’t true and represents a misunderstanding of how early voting works in Arizona.

Here's a closer look at the facts.

CLAIM: Arizona’s largest county in the 2020 election received and counted 74,000 mail-in ballots that had no record of ever being sent out to voters.

THE FACTS: False. The claim mischaracterizes reports that are intended to help political parties track early voters for their get-out-the-vote efforts, not tally mail-in ballots through Election Day. The reports don’t represent all mail-in ballots sent out and received, so the numbers aren’t expected to match up, according to Maricopa County officials and outside experts.

“We have 74,243 mail-in ballots where there is no clear record of them being sent,” Logan said at a meeting livestreamed at Arizona’s Capitol on Thursday. “That could be something where documentation wasn’t done right. There’s a clerical issue. There’s not proper things there, but I think when we’ve got 74,000, it merits knocking on a door and validating some of this information.”

Logan based his false claim on two types of early voting reports issued by Maricopa County: EV32 files and EV33 files. He claimed that EV32 files are “supposed to give a record of when a mail-in ballot is sent” and EV33 files are “supposed to give a record of when the mail-in ballot is received.”

That’s not accurate, according to Maricopa County officials, who tweeted on Friday that “the EV32 Returns & EV33 files are not the proper files to refer to for a complete accumulating of all early ballots sent and received.”

Instead, the EV32 and EV33 files are reports created for political parties to aid them in their get-out-the-vote efforts during early voting, according to Tammy Patrick, a senior adviser at the Democracy Fund and a former Maricopa County elections official. Arizona law requires county recorders to provide this data to political parties and candidates, Patrick said.

Arizona reports both mail-in ballots and early in-person votes at voting centers as early votes, so both are included in the data in files EV32 and EV33, Patrick said.

The EV32 file includes all requests that voters make for early ballots, either by mail or in person, up to 11 days before Election Day, Patrick said. The EV33 file includes returned early ballots up to the Monday before Election Day.

That means there is a 10-day period between the final day of each report, during which thousands of mail-in votes are submitted and thousands of additional voters go to voting centers, request early ballots in person and submit them. Furthermore, the files don’t include any early ballots that came in on Election Day.

“To use these files as an attempt to understand the number of voters who were mailed a ballot or who returned a ballot is misguided,” Patrick said. “That information is obtained from the Voted File, not a GOTV tool for the political parties and candidates.” “GOTV” is short for “get out the vote.”

Maricopa County officials tweeted later Friday that they calculated the true number of mail-in ballots requested and returned in November's election. According to that count, nearly 450,000 more mail-in ballots were requested than returned.

Rod Thomson, a public relations consultant working for Cyber Ninjas, said Maricopa County refused to answer questions posed by the audit team in private, forcing Logan to ask for explanations in public.

“Mr. Logan never said this was fraud or criminal, he merely stated the facts as they were provided to him and did not have an explanation,” Thomson said. “None of this would be necessary if the county would simply communicate with the audit team when there are questions.”

Logan is a Trump supporter who has spread conspiracy theories backing Trump’s false claims of fraud. His firm is overseeing the GOP audit despite having no prior experience in elections. Experts in election administration say it’s not following reliable procedures.

Jack Sellers, the Republican chairman of the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors, said in a statement on Thursday that the auditors are “portraying as suspicious what is actually normal and well known to people who work in elections.”

“What we heard today represents an alternate reality that has veered out of control since the November General Election,” Sellers wrote.

___

This is part of The Associated Press’ ongoing effort to fact-check misinformation that is shared widely online, including work with Facebook to identify and reduce the circulation of false stories on the platform. Here’s more information on Facebook’s fact-checking program:  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.2.1  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @7.2    2 weeks ago

I cannot believe this farce of a recount is still ongoing.  Unfreakingbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
 
 
devangelical
PhD Principal
7.2.2  devangelical  replied to  Tessylo @7.2.1    2 weeks ago

while previous official recounts had taken mere days to complete, the recount by partisan republican contractors has taken months. the main reason being that the building being used isn't large enough to accommodate the number of participants needed to take their shoes off to count past the number ten. the contractor continues to seek a local venue that will hold 170,000 people.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.2.3  Tessylo  replied to  devangelical @7.2.2    2 weeks ago

Some of the 'male' auditors have to drop their pants to count to 21 (although that one is so small, hard to see).  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.2.4  Tessylo  replied to  Tessylo @7.2.1    2 weeks ago

Excuse me, 'forensic audit'.

jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
7.2.5  Krishna  replied to  JohnRussell @7.2    5 days ago

But...but...whaddaboud all those Bamboo fibers which were revealed by the Ninja Warriors Top Secret Ultra-Violet light technology?

(Proof those ballots came from China. And: many people are saying that that's proof...because everyone knows that Bamboo can't grow in the U.S. it only grows in China! And China is a Communist Country-- still yet further proof that "THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN!)

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.2.6  Tessylo  replied to  Krishna @7.2.5    4 days ago

218435633_10225824129739137_7007625056323228021_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=zcopvChpQ7QAX-ughCa&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=d15bf286388136fea77cf59586997c5d&oe=612508C4

 
 
 
FortunateSon
Freshman Silent
8  FortunateSon    2 weeks ago

I think your going to find state govts that run forensic audits will be more reliable than the associated press.

So. Unless AP runs a complete forensic audit.  They are just guessing or full of shit. 

In Az more than. 70 thousand mail in ballots came back than were sent out.

Joe won Az by 11000 votes

You do the math

outcome of election changed.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  FortunateSon @8    2 weeks ago

Oh please.  How gullible are you ? 

 
 
 
FortunateSon
Freshman Silent
8.1.1  FortunateSon  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1    2 weeks ago

You think the press knows more than the people who ran a forensic audit and your calling me gullible

Your funny.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.1.2  Tessylo  replied to  FortunateSon @8.1.1    2 weeks ago

That's 'you're' XMDM9mm

Plus total nonsense.  

 
 
 
devangelical
PhD Principal
8.1.3  devangelical  replied to  FortunateSon @8.1.1    2 weeks ago

stop beating around the bush and just say that the election was rigged...

 
 
 
FortunateSon
Freshman Silent
8.1.5  FortunateSon  replied to  devangelical @8.1.3    one week ago

It absolutely was.

Never meant to imply otherwise.

So. When _the news does an actual forensic audit and counts every single mail in and scanned ballot 3 times their opinion might actually mean something.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
8.1.6  Gordy327  replied to  FortunateSon @8.1.5    one week ago

Claiming the election was rigged is an empty claim, and one which has no supporting evidence even 9 months after the election. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.1.7  TᵢG  replied to  FortunateSon @8.1.5    one week ago
It [the 2020 presidential election] absolutely was [rigged].

How can anyone still believe this utter bullshit?   There is NO evidence that the election was rigged leading to the defeat of Trump.   After all the recounts and litigation coming up with nothing that could even get close to altering the election results, it is pure ignorance or delusion to still believe Trump is the legitimate PotUS.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.2  TᵢG  replied to  FortunateSon @8    2 weeks ago
In Az more than. 70 thousand mail in ballots came back than were sent out.  Joe stole Az by 11000 votes

Deliver the evidence supporting this claim.

 
 
 
FortunateSon
Freshman Silent
8.2.1  FortunateSon  replied to  TᵢG @8.2    2 weeks ago

The evidence was presented to the az senate.

It is online and available.

If you cant be bothered to keep up or do your own research your no better than the associated press

So, when you complete a forensic audit let us all know okay?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.2.2  TᵢG  replied to  FortunateSon @8.2.1    2 weeks ago

It takes no talent to make a claim and not back it up.  

Your snarky deflect shows your claim is bullshit.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8.2.3  Kavika   replied to  TᵢG @8.2.2    2 weeks ago
Your snarky deflect shows your claim is bullshit.

Nothing new, that's his MO.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.2.4  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @8.2    2 weeks ago

A long rebuttal to this nonsense is already up on this very seed. 

We are on a hamster wheel version of reality. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.2.5  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @8.2.4    2 weeks ago
A long rebuttal to this nonsense is already up on this very seed. 

I know, and that illustrates how pathetic the 'go look it up for yourself' deflection is.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
8.3  Split Personality  replied to  FortunateSon @8    2 weeks ago
In Az more than. 70 thousand mail in ballots came back than were sent out

Please leave your conspiracy nonsense at the door.  That has already been debunked by Maricopa County officials and others.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.3.2  Tessylo  replied to    2 weeks ago

So people should just hand over to these fraudsters all of their sensitive information?

jrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
8.3.3  Split Personality  replied to  Tessylo @8.3.2    2 weeks ago
"I just don't see how it's a logical campaign approach to go around telling people that the system's rigged, their vote doesn't matter, but please vote for us in 2022," Mr Richer said. "That seems silly."

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
8.3.4  Split Personality  replied to    2 weeks ago

It probably happened during your months away from here while you played World of Warcraft

at work to fill in your time previously spent trolling NV & NT.

jrSmiley_7_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.3.5  Tessylo  replied to  Split Personality @8.3.4    2 weeks ago
'It probably happened during your months away from here while you played World of Warcraft

at work to fill in your time previously spent trolling NV & NT.'

jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
FortunateSon
Freshman Silent
8.3.6  FortunateSon  replied to  Split Personality @8.3    one week ago
Please leave your conspiracy nonsense at the door. 

I did. The big lie is joe won.

When people are told to sit down and shut up. That's when they rise up.

The left trying everything possible to stop the audits only proves they have much to hide.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
8.3.7  Gordy327  replied to  FortunateSon @8.3.6    one week ago

Prove Joe didn't win!

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.3.8  TᵢG  replied to  Gordy327 @8.3.7    one week ago

Another one who just makes utterly stupid claims and fails at every turn to back them up.   Pure trolling.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
8.3.9  Trout Giggles  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.8    one week ago

Exactly! And it's best not to feed the trolls. Let them starve from inattention

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
8.3.10  Gordy327  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.8    one week ago

Over & over & over again.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
8.3.11  Gordy327  replied to  Trout Giggles @8.3.9    one week ago

Or we can "censor" them. That really seems to trigger some.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
8.3.12  Krishna  replied to  FortunateSon @8.3.6    5 days ago
When people are told to sit down and shut up. That's when they rise up.

And conversely, when people rise up...that's when they are told to sit down and shut up!

And what about all those mysterious  Bamboo fibers, eh!

What about that????

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.4  Tessylo  replied to  FortunateSon @8    2 weeks ago

That's just absolutely nuts XMDM9mm

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
8.4.1  JBB  replied to  Tessylo @8.4    2 weeks ago

original

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
8.5  Krishna  replied to  FortunateSon @8    5 days ago
In Az more than. 70 thousand mail in ballots came back than were sent out.

Link?

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
11  Paula Bartholomew    one week ago

So far, every time someone has been named who used a dead person's vote have been Trumptards.

 
 
Loading...
Loading...

Who is online

arkpdx
Nerm_L
JBB
zuksam


36 visitors