The bad bargain for "normalcy."

  

Category:  News & Politics

By:  vic-eldred  •  2 weeks ago  •  363 comments

The bad bargain for "normalcy."
"If there's American citizens left, we’re going to stay until we get them all out"

How many people are true moderates or independents?  How many don't pay any attention to politics until election time?  I think the center is a lot bigger than people think.  Kevin Madden, who once was Mitt Romney's senior advisor used to refer to them as “the pragmatic middle.”  In a nation divided, their vote is often the decisive one.

In 2020 the nation was bedeviled by a deadly pandemic. The CDC was totally unprepared and there was no vaccine. The leading "expert" called for an open ended shutdown of a thriving economy. The msm blamed Trump from the get go. The suffering public was bombarded with Trump quotes & tweets via a media dedicated to his removal. Social media censored a story that might hurt Biden. Election laws were changed in battleground states in order to benefit Biden & democrats. 

Many in the middle voted for what they thought was "normalcy."  They were deceived and I'm sure that many of them know it now. What they got in return for their vote was a radical agenda that Barack Obama and Bill Ayers could only dream of. The borders are wide open and we are taking in as many refugees as possible. Inflation is soaring as democrats with little mandate are spending wildly. Radical indoctrination is being prescribed for our young children and the military. Crime is soaring as many big city police departments have been emasculated and defunded. Workers have received generous benefits which have discouraged a return to work. Last but not least was the humiliating debacle in Afghanistan, the full consequences of which are yet to be felt.

Recent polls show that Biden's approval rating is dropping like a rock and at least 20% of those who voted for him now regret it.

How could so many have been fooled by a candidate who needed to be hidden away during the campaign?


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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1  author  Vic Eldred    2 weeks ago

The pragmatic middle?

I don't think so.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
1.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    2 weeks ago

I find the whole premise of your article and your opening comment insulting Vic. I don't appreciate that, nor is it a way to start a good discussion. Sorry, but I just had to say that.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.1  CB   replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1    2 weeks ago

It is even worse than that. This is partisan chicanery. It is disinformation and it is happening in plain sight of NT. These people are sold out to telling untruths and getting their way with a one-sided perspective. A story about perspectives:

One evening I was watering my flowers next to the front picture window and doing so from my usual 'spot' on the driveway. Something odd occurred this time. As I watered those higher end plants I noticed a strange flow of water being projected on the windows behind them. It took me several re-passes with the water to "orient" on what the heck I was seeing that had to be me causing it.

I figured it out. The window glass was casting a different perspective on my activity of spraying that day. That is, it was bending the 'stream' away from me such that I did not recognize my own water 'reflection.'

I came to realize at that moment, that is what conservatives and republicans are doing in real-time and on social media. That is, they are hard at it bending reality to their narrow perspective. I was 'manning' the stream's flow. I was holding the hose. I was guiding the spray. But the window was found to be 'broadcasting' its own take on what was happening.

We have to watch and call out disinformation. It is a dangerous tool in the hands of unworthy opponents. Be on guard. Don't let a 'wild' perspective throw off the 'watering' this nation and its citizens justly deserve!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1    2 weeks ago

Understood

 
 
 
Hallux
Freshman Principal
1.2  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    2 weeks ago

        "Recent polls ..."

... are hammers in search of a nail, meaningless talking points at best.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.2.1  CB   replied to  Hallux @1.2    2 weeks ago

Emphatically.

I watched a (liberal) cable news shows anchor get reined in over her chattering about polls showing Biden first time in the 40's this weekend and I wanted to scream at her insistence of repeating something she had asked prior with another guest. What was interesting and delightful is just what you illustrated in your comment. Her 'now' guest just cooly  and matter-of-factly pointed out to her that she was quoting one poll, "a snapshot in one window of time" and whether she meant to or not letting hyperbole blow it out of proportions. I am paraphrasing. (He was more articulate that I am being here.)

The guest soberly pointed out that the good news is there is a whole end-year 'cycle' of news yet to be invented, and another year for "great things" to sweep away all the bad moments up to now.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1.3  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    2 weeks ago
"In 2020 the nation was bedeviled by a deadly pandemic. The CDC was totally unprepared and there was no vaccine."

Just wondering if you can figure out why there was no vaccine.  One might think that if a virus just happened that a vaccine does not fall out of the sky like the Coca Cola bottle did in the movie The Gods Must Be Crazy.  Normally it takes YEARS to create a vaccine, and it's miraculous that vaccines were created as fast as they were.  So what kind of comment is "and there was no vaccine"?  What are you trying to say?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.3.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.3    2 weeks ago
Normally it takes YEARS to create a vaccine,

But Donald Trump got it done in 10 months.

Now tell us why there was a covid pandemic?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1.3.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.3.1    2 weeks ago

Donald Trump did it?  I thought the virologists and other scientists did it.

Why was there a covid pandemic?  Because viruses happen once in a while and sometimes they become pandemics.  This was not the first time and it certainly isn't going to be the last. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.3.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.3.2    2 weeks ago
Donald Trump did it?  I thought the virologists and other scientists did it.

Oh they did, with a lot of inducement from Trump and don't forget all the red tape Trump cut. If we had waited for the FDA, full approval arrived only recently. We would have been waiting for the vaccine right up until last month like Dr Fauci thought when he tried to contradict Trump.


Why was there a covid pandemic?  Because viruses happen once in a while and sometimes they become pandemics.  This was not the first time and it certainly isn't going to be the last. 

That may have been why there was an outbreak in China, but for the rest of us it was because the CCP tried to contain it at home while letting it flow out to the rest of the world.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1.3.4  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.3.3    2 weeks ago

Well, maybe the CPC didn't do as wonderful a job as Trump did in managing and containing the virus.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.3.5  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.3.4    2 weeks ago

Gee, who would compare the two?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.3.6  CB   replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.3.2    2 weeks ago
I thought the virologists and other scientists did it.

The virologists had been working on MRNA theory for at least a decade or so. It is just like old "one-way" Vic to try to give Trump more than his backside can cope. For authorizing the research project and funding it- I thank President Donald Trump; for being the jerk that he proved out to be to stand in the way of being utilizing it to get effectively better and whole I condemn him. Condemnation over-ride!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.3.7  CB   replied to  Vic Eldred @1.3.5    2 weeks ago

Donald Trump will not get credit for 'creating' anything. He simply assented to the project, took the risk, and it paid off handsomely for us all. However, come election time his backside got creamed out of office, because of foolish, irresponsible, character flaws like not realizing that a politician's job is not to stir up trouble between groups of citizens and getting fellow citizens injured, maimed, and killed by practicing a dangerous mocking of a racial group: "China virus." "Kong flu."

Trump's ignorance of a significant protocol for saving lives by not designating diseases as a people class; added onto the pile of dong that he carried on his back his entire presidency. And, the majority of voters wanted that disgraced man GONE!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.3.8  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  CB @1.3.7    2 weeks ago

You need only worry about what Joe Biden get's credit for and the list is growing:

The Afghanistan debacle

Open borders

Rising inflation

Rising crime

Indoctrination


Let me know if you have further questions

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.3.9  CB   replied to  Vic Eldred @1.3.8    2 weeks ago

I'll let you worry about the list that surely you will build and will never be surmounted by any democratic party leader. Partisan as hell. Anyway, I gave President Trump "props" for ad-min-i-strat-ing the research funding needed to help us all progress through a pandemic. I can not ignore the grandstanding White House COVID-19 briefings that fell off and got squashed because President Trump was hurt that people got him in a "boo-boo" over bleaching the lungs or some such thing.

On the other hand, you simply choose to be a negative Ned and throw up select bullet points, which do nothing for your standing, because people can read, see, and understand for themselves that Joe Biden is not all negative - despite some conservatives intransigence.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.3.10  CB   replied to  Vic Eldred @1.3.8    2 weeks ago

And one more thing: If the only way to keep inflation low is to keep people shackled to poverty wages and no aid, then bring it on. Clearly, it is time we get through to the other side of poverty, that is, by travel onward to prosperity and dealing with inflation through price controls.

Rising crime: If the only way to keep crime low is to arrest more people of color and black Americans as the face of crime, then clealy you should support the proceeding which are scheduled to study the Capitol crime of 1/6/2021 in Washington, D.C. by fake 'patriots' - or, will you assent to the protest on September 18, 2021 in 'D.C.' which advocates freedom for what some conservatives are calling "political prisoners"?

Open borders: Are you for or against Afghans which are landing in the U.S.A right now?

Indoctrination. Well, that is just a dumb-ass some conservative  'nothing-burger.'

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.3.11  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  CB @1.3.9    2 weeks ago
you simply choose to be a negative Ned

Right now things are fairly negative for Biden & the democrats. My role is to inform our readers and save this country.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.3.12  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  CB @1.3.10    2 weeks ago
If the only way to keep inflation low is to keep people shackled to poverty wages and no aid, then bring it on.

The way to keep inflation low is to preseve the value of the dollar. The very opposite of printing up money.


 If the only way to keep crime low is to arrest more people of color and black Americans as the face of crime, then clealy you should support the proceeding which are scheduled to study the Capitol crime of 1/6/2021 in Washington, D.C. by fake 'patriots' - or, will you assent to the protest on September 18, 2021 in 'D.C.' which advocates freedom for what some conservatives are calling "political prisoners"?

I'm sorry, none of that makes any sense to me.


Open borders: Are you for or against Afghans which are landing in the U.S.A right now?

The southern border is open. Allowing Afghans refugee status is completely different issue. I would only admit vigorously vetted Afghans, who actually helped the US military.


Indoctrination. Well, that is just a dumb-ass some conservative  'nothing-burger.'

A lot of time and effort has been exerted by our leftist members on that "nothing-burger."

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.3.13  CB   replied to  Vic Eldred @1.3.11    2 weeks ago

Yes, right now, is it? Your role is to be a harbinger of republican policies, eh? Well, do you need truth to be so or will any run of the mill let of half-truths and propped up statements do? Tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you whatever God you do or do not serve.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.3.14  CB   replied to  Vic Eldred @1.3.12    2 weeks ago
The way to keep inflation low is to preseve the value of the dollar. The very opposite of printing up money.

And what good is keeping the value of money up if the people perish in 'paradise'? I know,  some (conservatives) buy gold and hoard 'bills' in order to compete against the poor who all their lives have little to nothing, but must contend with those who have more than they need and, in some cases, could come by justly. Want better outcomes for the U.S.A? Bring the money home from overseas and pay people just wages and cease this infinite war on the worker!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.3.15  CB   replied to  Vic Eldred @1.3.12    2 weeks ago
 If the only way to keep crime low is to arrest more people of color and black Americans as the face of crime, then clealy you should support the proceeding which are scheduled to study the Capitol crime of 1/6/2021 in Washington, D.C. by fake 'patriots' - or, will you assent to the protest on September 18, 2021 in 'D.C.' which advocates freedom for what some conservatives are calling "political prisoners"?
I'm sorry, none of that makes any sense to me.

Then don't let it make sense, Vic. Funny how you have time to let every 'thang' else negative about democrats and Joe Biden make sense to you. Some conservatives have got deformed 'sense-makers' or something?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.3.16  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  CB @1.3.14    2 weeks ago

Wha?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.3.17  CB   replied to  Vic Eldred @1.3.12    2 weeks ago
I would only admit vigorously vetted Afghans, who actually helped the US military.

What is a "vigorously vetted" Afghan that has landed here already, Vic? It takes years to my understanding to be properly vetted, likewise at the southern border.  How about 'dreamers' are they vetted enough for some conservatives to petition they become citizens of the only country they have ever called, "home"?

No, you are clear you want what YOU want and a sense of fairness be damned!!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.3.18  CB   replied to  Vic Eldred @1.3.12    2 weeks ago
A lot of time and effort has been exerted by our leftist members on that "nothing-burger."

Still, a nothing burger is a zero no matter the crowded circumstances that prop it up!

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2  Kathleen    2 weeks ago

I can’t even count how many times Trump voters were bashed on here...

Anyway, Biden lost all my respect after this last disaster. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Kathleen @2    2 weeks ago
I can’t even count how many times Trump voters were bashed on here...

with justification

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.1.1  Kathleen  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    2 weeks ago

Thanks for proving my point. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
2.1.2  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    2 weeks ago

So you won't mind us bashing of those that put the most incompetent asshole ever into the WH then?

Because it is most definitely deserved.

Just think we will have another 3 plus years to remind those who voted for Biden. I doubt we can match the rancor or divisiveness of those on the left; but we can give it a decent shot.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.3  JohnRussell  replied to  Ronin2 @2.1.2    2 weeks ago

You can try and bash anyone you want. Your complaints about Biden are largely made up crap playing off him stumbling over a few words in speeches. As for his policies, a lot of people like them. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.4  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.3    2 weeks ago
Your complaints about Biden are largely made up crap playing off him stumbling over a few words in speeches.

True.  Most of the Biden bashing seems to be childish and petty.   Much of it is made up partisan crap.

Criticism of Biden for Afghanistan is healthy and proper.   But this extreme bullshit about being senile, tired, stupid, perverted, ... just contributes to the irrational partisan-driven divide that keeps our political process dysfunctional.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Masters Silent
2.1.5  dennis smith  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.4    2 weeks ago

When you add LIAR to senile, tired, stupid, perverted you have the truth about Bidet.  

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.1.6  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  dennis smith @2.1.5    2 weeks ago
When you add LIAR to senile, tired, stupid, perverted you have the truth about Bidet.  

And again, the same could be said about Trump. See how that works? When are you going to bring something to a discussion other than throwing out bombs?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.7  TᵢG  replied to  dennis smith @2.1.5    2 weeks ago
When you add LIAR to senile, tired, stupid, perverted you have the truth about Bidet.  

Based on your comment history (and your utterly witless and childish 'Bidet') this is yet another meaningless partisan quip.  

Do you think your pathetic comment would influence anyone?   It is simply an expression of partisan emotion.   No clever insights, no facts, just simplistic emoting and witless name-mangling.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.8  CB   replied to  Ronin2 @2.1.2    2 weeks ago

Do your worse! We're get over it. We have fewer, or no other choice! jrSmiley_79_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.9  CB   replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.6    2 weeks ago

Won't. Throwing 'piss' from the cheap seats is a sort of performance art.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.10  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.3    2 weeks ago
As for his policies, a lot of people like them. 

They are called progressives & leftists & Socialists.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.1.11  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.10    2 weeks ago

Vic, I am not a progressive, leftist, or a socialist and this is the biggest problem we have in politics these days. It's this black and white thinking and name calling. My views vary from liberal to conservative depending on the issue. I do not view many of Biden's policies as particularly out there. I also don't agree with all of them. 

I don't like to be labeled.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.12  CB   replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.11    2 weeks ago

How can anybody label you if you won't pick up the 'card'? They can not.  Handle your business! You go, Ms. Halpern!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.13  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.11    2 weeks ago
Vic, I am not a progressive, leftist, or a socialist and this is the biggest problem we have in politics these days.

I never said you were. You told us about your vote. It was about the comportment of an individual rather than his policies. That is fine. I don't vote that way.


 It's this black and white thinking and name calling. 

Perrie, I came here in 2017. Now you are telling me this?


My views vary from liberal to conservative depending on the issue. 

Tell me the difference between Eric Adams and Curtis Sliwa?  I recall you immediately endorsed Adams.


I do not view many of Biden's policies as particularly out there.

That's chilling!


I don't like to be labeled.

I don't label or judge Perrie Halpern.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.1.14  Kathleen  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.4    2 weeks ago

What happened at the border and Afghanistan was not petty. Would you say all the memes of Trump were petty too? Pictures of him playing golf with a brown stain on his pants to me is petty. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.15  TᵢG  replied to  Kathleen @2.1.14    2 weeks ago

Yes and I am surprised you did not see the many comments I have made on that very subject.   My general comment is that Trump has all sorts of legitimate, meaningful bad things to criticize;  criticizing petty items distracts from the criticism of the important factors and causes people to dismiss all criticism of Trump.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.16  CB   replied to  Kathleen @2.1.14    2 weeks ago

It was petty. Borne out of frustration and comic genius (if you will- shout out to ETPDRI), but petty no doubt.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Masters Silent
2.1.17  dennis smith  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.6    2 weeks ago

There are many on the left that need to be asked the same question. I would name them but then would get cited for personal attack.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
2.1.18  Split Personality  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.6    2 weeks ago

Never, he's one of two or three that just say "your partisan remarks are valueless"

or you're a troll.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
2.1.19  Gordy327  replied to  dennis smith @2.1.5    2 weeks ago

Who is a bigger liar than Trump? Certainly not Biden. I do not recall, but did you ever call out Trump for lying? Or use juvenile names for Trump?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
2.1.20  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.11    2 weeks ago

Exactly how I feel about the issues that label an individual one way or the other.  I, too, am supportive not only of many liberal causes and some conservative ones as well, and I'm not a programmed robot like a lot of members here on Trump or Biden - I support some of the things each of them have done and have disagreed, even despaired with others.  When it comes to my proffering an opinion about America, I differ from almost everyone else on this site because I'm NOT an American which means it's more likely that I can be objective about American issues. 

I don't hate America or Americans.  I have spent much of my leisure time during my life in America, travelling it far and wide (I'll bet I've seen more of America than a lot of Americans), sightseeing, attending festivals and conferences, did legal work there for different clients, and even owned a golf condo in Florida for some years.  Back then I was comfortable anywhere in America.  Today I don't want to step one foot in it, even to visit my son and his family in Wisconsin and be able to hug my grandchildren for the very first time.  I  worry considerably about their health and safety.  

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.1.21  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.13    2 weeks ago
I never said you were. You told us about your vote. It was about the comportment of an individual rather than his policies. That is fine. I don't vote that way.

Wrong. It is a combination of both. 

It's this black and white thinking and name calling. 

Perrie, I came here in 2017. Now you are telling me this?

Well, apparently I have to because you had to know that I would find this offensive and yet, you went with it. 

Tell me the difference between Eric Adams and Curtis Sliwa?  I recall you immediately endorsed Adams.

Huge difference. One pretended to be a police officer and the other one was. One has no experience with governance, and the other was the Borough president Brooklyn. The Guardian Angels have been almost nonexistent in NYC over the last 20 years, so why would he be relevant now?

I do not view many of Biden's policies as particularly out there.

That's chilling!

Name one you find chilling?

I don't like to be labeled.

I don't label or judge Perrie Halpern.

You do if you mean what you wrote in that article.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.22  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.21    2 weeks ago
Wrong. It is a combination of both. 

I'm glad to hear that.


Well, apparently I have to because you had to know that I would find this offensive and yet, you went with it. 

How would I know you would take an opionion that speaks only in general terms personally? If that's the case I should have been outraged over all the seeds & articles on Trump supporters. Or is that like settled science? Trump supporters bad & Biden supporters good...


Huge difference. One pretended to be a police officer and the other one was. One has no experience with governance, and the other was the Borough president Brooklyn. The Guardian Angels have been almost nonexistent in NYC over the last 20 years, so why would he be relevant now?

Fair enough. I simply saw them both as being for law & order. You make a case for experience and that makes sense.


Name one you find chilling?

OPEN BORDERS


You do if you mean what you wrote in that article.

I mean every word of it, but it wasn't aimed at you. Free speech, remember?

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.1.23  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.3    2 weeks ago

Bullshit, the double standard at play here when it comes to Trump and Biden is egregiously massive.   Just for a moment, try to be unbiased and consider the national meltdown that would have occurred in the mass media/ left had Trumps said any of these words:

"Clap for that you stupid bastards"   In 2016 to American troops in Abu Dhabi when they didn't clap when he thought they should

"I probably have a much higher IQ than you"  To a teacher in 1987, leading to the revelation that Biden is a serial liar and derailment of his 1988 Presidential election bid.   Rightfully so, today he gets away with much worse.

"then you ain't black"  To a black radio host when he asked Biden a question Biden didn't like

I could go on but regardless if these where honest gaffes or not, had Trump said any of this you would have lost you shit here.   Same with the mass media.   No doubt about it.

The double standard at play here is so bad it's almost comical .....

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.1.24  Sparty On  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.1.20    2 weeks ago
Today I don't want to step one foot in it, even to visit my son and his family in Wisconsin and be able to hug my grandchildren for the very first time.

I find that incredibly hard to believe.   There is little that would stop me from seeing my family if i wanted to see them.   Certainly NOTHING going on in the USA right now.

Amazing!

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.1.25  Kathleen  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.15    2 weeks ago

I have criticized Biden as things are happening with his leadership at the moment. In the beginning I did say that I was going to give him a chance. As time has gone by, I really disliked his decisions and the way he handled them. I don’t think he is a monster, but I think he should not be in this position. I am sure he has some better qualities as a person then Trump in many ways.   I always thought that moving on from constantly mentioning Trump when he is no longer the president may be best. Everyone keeps bringing him up constantly, it has become a unhealthy obsession about that man. 

Maybe it’s time to start thinking about better candidates for the future. Let’s put all of our energy on that instead of doing what we all have been doing lately. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.26  TᵢG  replied to  Kathleen @2.1.25    2 weeks ago
I always thought that moving on from constantly mentioning Trump when he is no longer the president may be best. Everyone keeps bringing him up constantly, it has become a unhealthy obsession about that man.

The key problem is that Trump will not stay silent.   As he and his supporters keep him in the news so goes the commentary.   There is no ‘moving on’ if he and his supporters do not move on.

Maybe it’s time to start thinking about better candidates for the future. Let’s put all of our energy on that instead of doing what we all have been doing.

Yes!   But the R party apparently is sticking with Trump.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.1.27  Kathleen  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.26    2 weeks ago

There are some things you can’t do anything about. You can’t stop him from doing what he is doing, but you don’t have to listen to him either. You know what they say, just change the channel or read something else. To tell you the truth, I have not watched or read about him. Not all Republicans like Trump. I think most people are just tired of all the drama associated with him and they want to move on, which includes me.  That is my opinion. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.28  TᵢG  replied to  Kathleen @2.1.27    2 weeks ago

Kathleen, if Trump and his supporters continue to keep him as the leader of the R party, there is no not talking about Trump.

You can wish people not do so but clearly this is headline news of great significance and it will be discussed and debated.

I understand this is your opinion but I hope you also understand that your wish is impossible.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.1.29  Kathleen  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.28    2 weeks ago

I’ve seen other headlines, but if you want to keep talking about him, then all of you will put him more in the headlines. You keep feeding into it. You know how Trump hates being in the headlines, right?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.30  TᵢG  replied to  Kathleen @2.1.29    2 weeks ago
... but if you want to keep talking about him, then all of you will put him more in the headlines ...

You think that people talking about Trump's ongoing comments and those of his supporters are what is putting him in the headlines?

You reject the obvious fact that Trump and his supporters are putting him in the headlines.   Every social media platform could go silent in opposition to Trump and that would not make a difference.   Trump would still be news because he and his supporters are making him news.

The 'solution' is for Trump to go silent and for his supporters to pick another leader of the R party.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.1.31  Kathleen  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.30    2 weeks ago

Trump to go silent? Now that is a wish that is impossible.

I still say don’t give him all that energy.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.32  TᵢG  replied to  Kathleen @2.1.31    2 weeks ago
Trump to go silent? Now that is a wish that is impossible.

Exactly, it will never happen.   So we are stuck with him in the headlines.   And given he is in the headlines, his opposition will speak.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.1.33  Kathleen  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.32    2 weeks ago

Looks like we disagree about this so I will leave it at that.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.34  CB   replied to  Sparty On @2.1.23    2 weeks ago

There is no double-standard. It is simple to understand and relate:

You like Donald J. Trump and see him as a man after your own heart along with many others citizens who support his arrogant productions, chicanery, and dangerous buffoonery.  You all see yourselves has having gained something due to or in-spite of Trump's abruptness conduct.

On the other-hand, we look upon Joe Biden and we see a man who is somewhat inarticulate, surely showing his age, capable of achieving his aims, peaceable, comfortable in his own skin and in his duties as world leader, and willing to combine balanced compassion with professional goals achievement.

One set of traits is more conducive to a better standing in the community, the nation, and the world than the other set of traits.

We make sensible choices like this every day. It is setting a higher standard, not holding to a double-standard.

All living things make callous mistakes, verbally and mechanically. If you want perfection from our 'accidents' you will be S-Out-Of-Luck. However, an individual who deliberately trains in making 'accidents' will be called out like a spoilt brat and dealt with appropriately.  We do that when we catch all our thieves, liars, cheats, and worse red-handed.

Growth and development is a thing to be sought.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.1.35  Sparty On  replied to  CB @2.1.34    2 weeks ago
There is no double-standard.

The denial runs strong in this one ...... very strong.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.36  JohnRussell  replied to  CB @2.1.34    2 weeks ago

Although I fear it is slipping by somewhat unnoticed CB, I think your comment here is one of the best I have seen on NT recently. Very well said. 

(h/t to Sparty for calling my attention to it) .

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Senior Principal
2.1.37  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.36    2 weeks ago

Fucking joke is what it is.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.1.38  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.36    2 weeks ago

YW but you are slipping John.   It's not like you to miss such an opportunity to bash on Trump.

Better sharpen that tool John.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.39  JohnRussell  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.37    2 weeks ago
However, an individual who deliberately trains in making 'accidents' will be called out like a spoilt brat and dealt with appropriately.  We do that when we catch all our thieves, liars, cheats, and worse red-handed.

I liked this part about you know who

 However, an individual who deliberately trains in making 'accidents' will be called out like a spoilt brat and dealt with appropriately.  We do that when we catch all our thieves, liars, cheats, and worse red-handed.
 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.1.40  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.39    2 weeks ago
"I liked this part about you know who" However, an individual who deliberately trains in making 'accidents' will be called out like a spoilt brat and dealt with appropriately.  We do that when we catch all our thieves, liars, cheats, and worse red-handed.

You shouldn't talk about Biden that way John, people on NT will start talking .......

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.41  CB   replied to  Sparty On @2.1.35    2 weeks ago

If you can't figure out distinctions between good, bad politicians and untrained asinine idiots who cause great societal damage it is not anybody's fault here. Donald Trump chooses to be a 'feral' liar while other folks sometimes lapse into lying. If that does not help you let's try pictures:

brown-chihuahua-snarling-with-teeth-showing-85587813-583a09185f9b58d5b17a065c.jpg Big difference between that and this furious-dog-picture-id92280236?k=6&m=92280236&s=612x612&w=0&h=dga2DLg0kBvc8K9RI2LZtT6265qFbng6LKydMxfAX5c=
 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.1.42  Sparty On  replied to  CB @2.1.41    2 weeks ago

C'mon man ..... i feel exactly the same way about you.   Imagine that.

Shall we all sit around a campfire now and sing Kumbaya ?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.43  CB   replied to  Sparty On @2.1.42    2 weeks ago

Enough chit-chatting. Do you think Donald J. Trump is a brazen liar or do you buy 99.99 percent of the statements and assertions Trump makes?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.44  CB   replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.36    2 weeks ago

Let me try. . . this : jrSmiley_15_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.45  CB   replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.39    2 weeks ago

Smokes! A two-fer. . . jrSmiley_15_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.1.46  Sparty On  replied to  CB @2.1.43    2 weeks ago

Sounds like a great seed for you to start elsewhere since it's off topic here.

Just don't put it in your usual echo chamber group.    I tend to have an anechoic effect on the liberal reverb in those.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.47  CB   replied to  Sparty On @2.1.46    2 weeks ago

So you won't answer the question. Figures. Continue on with the light banter, if you must.  WANTED: GROWTH. DEVELOPMENT.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Kathleen @2    2 weeks ago

I never bashed a Trump voter. I might have disagreed with them, but I never put them down. This topic applies to people like me, and I find it offensive.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.2.1  Kathleen  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.2    2 weeks ago

No, but my point was that it was allowed. I never have either, I found it offensive to me because I voted for him in the last election. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.2.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Kathleen @2.2.1    2 weeks ago

Kathleen, this article is still standing so it is allowed, and I do remember you being really upset about the Trump bashing and expressing it.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2.3  JohnRussell  replied to  Kathleen @2.2.1    2 weeks ago

Kathleen, prior to the 2016 election it was KNOWN that Trump was a pathological liar, a crook, a bigot, a moron, and a cheat.  Not suspected, known. 

And you say you voted for him anyway. 

Sorry, but that does not speak well for you. 

I am sick and tired of Trump voters acting like they are victims of something. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.4  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.3    2 weeks ago

John, most Trump voters I know recognize that Trump is an extremely flawed individual and is, in blunt terms, a lying sack of shit.

But in 2016 they saw Hillary and her personal negatives coupled with policies they did not want.   Thus they held their noses and voted for Trump because he told them (policy-wise) what they wanted to hear.

I think it is a wrong read to presume that Trump voters did not know he was a flawed character.    But it is likely correct that they did not realize just how deeply flawed he is.

That said, I think after four years of that asshole in office coupled with the coup de grâce (his two month con-job big lie) anyone who supports him for reelection thinks ... strangely.  

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.5  Sunshine  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.3    2 weeks ago

Biden...

pathological liar.. check

moron...check

bigot...check

crook...check

cheat...check

basement dweller...check

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
2.2.6  Ronin2  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.2    2 weeks ago

Really?

I was an independent in 2016. Didn't vote for Trump or Clinton; went 3rd party because I didn't do the "lesser of two evils" at the time. I was cast into the same lot by the left as those that voted for Trump. For 5 and a half years and counting I have had to put up with this BS.  I lost several friends on the left because of it; seems that by not voting for Hillary I was suddenly socially unacceptable.

When I objected, I was told to stop "painting with such a wide brush"; "stop overreacting"; and my favorite "if the shoe fits wear it". 

I was bullied physically and emotional throughout my younger years all the way into high school. I promised myself never again. The new commercials on how to stop bullying always rely on those not involved to end it. I have waited for those on the sidelines that are left, independents, or moderates who voted for Hillary to call people out for bashing anyone that didn't vote for Hillary. They have been non existent. From the looks of things nothing has changed from my youth. Better to not get involved and risk the bullies' wrath.

So you will have to forgive me; or don't (because at this point I don't really care), if I am not in the forgive and forget mood. As many of my former friends on the left have found out the hard way. Those same people that love to cast stones are suddenly finding out they live in a glass house with a very unstable foundation. Maybe they will get lucky and Biden will suddenly turn competent and things will magically turn around; and he will stop providing us with so much ammunition. Wouldn't count on it. Even if Biden is removed we are stuck with Harris. 

Have we thanked those that put those two in office enough yet?/S

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.2.7  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.5    2 weeks ago

Oh, come on Sunshine. The same could be said about Trump. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.8  TᵢG  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.5    2 weeks ago

Your list expresses this:  'I am a partisan and thus every comment from me about Biden will be negative'.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
2.2.9  Ronin2  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.4    2 weeks ago
That said, I think after four years of that asshole in office coupled with the coup de grâce (his two month con-job big lie) anyone who supports him for reelection thinks ...strangely

So what would you call those that put Biden/Harris into office if "anyone who supports him for reelection thinks....strangely"

Biden has done more damage to the US in eight months than Trump did in four years.

Should we say those that voted for Biden/Harris think "dementedly", "stupidly", "moronically"... What word works best for them? We all have 40 years of Biden's public service to fall back on. Including his 8 years as Vice President. Yet somehow he still managed to get elected.

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.10  Sunshine  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.8    2 weeks ago

So criticizing Biden labels one partisan?  That seems very narrow minded.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.2.11  Ender  replied to  Ronin2 @2.2.9    2 weeks ago

And what is this catastrophic damage he has done...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.12  TᵢG  replied to  Ronin2 @2.2.9    2 weeks ago
So what would you call those that put Biden/Harris into office if "anyone who supports him for reelection thinks....strangely"

I do not call them anything.   Biden was elected for a variety of reasons.   The Ds voted for him because he was the D candidate and they believed he had the best chance to beat Trump.   The independents who voted for him likely did so to get rid of Trump (in spite of potential policy differences).   The Rs who voted for him no doubt did so in total rejection of Trump.

Ultimately, Trump is the reason Biden is the PotUS.   (Similar to Hillary being the reason Trump won.)

Should we say those that voted for Biden/Harris think "dementedly", "stupidly", "moronically"... What word works best for them?

No.   See above.

We all have 40 years of Biden's public service to fall back on. Including his 8 years as Vice President. Yet somehow he still managed to get elected.

Trump.   Put up a marginally decent human being as the R candidate for PotUS and Biden would likely not be PotUS right now.

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.13  Sunshine  replied to  Ronin2 @2.2.6    2 weeks ago

Very well said.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.14  TᵢG  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.10    2 weeks ago
So criticizing Biden labels one partisan?  That seems very narrow minded.

No, Sunshine, read what I wrote.   It is that every comment from you about Biden is negative.   When points are made about Biden you ignore the good and leap onto the bad.   It is pure partisan behavior.

It is blatantly obvious.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.2.15  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Ronin2 @2.2.6    2 weeks ago

Ronin,

You assume too much about me. In 2016 I voted for Gary Johnson because I hated both of them. So we were pretty much in the same boat.

As for Biden, the only thing I am disappointed with is how we pulled out of Afghanistan. And there is no reason for him to be removed from office at this point, so I am not sure why that is even part of the discussion. 

If you are disgusted with our two-party system, well so am I. I have advocated for a third party for a very long time, as two parties leave you really with no difference. But there will never be a third party, since the two parties we have to love this. They know that if they don't win this round, they will win the next and a third party means that the other two parties would have to do something and they don't want to do that that might not be in their self-interest.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2.16  JohnRussell  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.10    2 weeks ago

I'm not going to be as nice to you as Perrie and Tig are. 

You support someone who tried to steal the last election by having the legitimate election results thrown out and replaced by red state legislatures that would declare him the winner. 

You believe conspiracy theories, you believe anti government lies, you support Trump. 

People who support Trump post Jan 6th are a menace to this country. 

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.17  Sunshine  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.14    2 weeks ago

I don’t see any redeeming qualities in the man.  Put up a good democrat for president and then we can talk.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.18  TᵢG  replied to  Ronin2 @2.2.6    2 weeks ago
I was an independent in 2016.

So you thought for yourself regardless of the positions of a particular party in 2016 but now you do not???

Why would someone who truly formulates his own positions suddenly stop doing so and follow the lead of a party?   

Think for yourself;  go back to being an independent.

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.19  Sunshine  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.16    2 weeks ago

Please prove any of that bullshit you just wrote.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.2.20  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Ronin2 @2.2.9    2 weeks ago
Yet somehow he still managed to get elected.

There is a reason for that and I am amazed at how you can not see that Trump was so bad for this country, other than the economy. Never have I seen such a divide that he made, with his hateful rhetoric. 

Should we say those that voted for Biden/Harris think "dementedly", "stupidly", "moronically"... What word works best for them?

And that is a discussion closer. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2.21  JohnRussell  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.19    2 weeks ago

Are you trying to say that you are not a Trump supporter? 

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.22  Sunshine  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.21    2 weeks ago

Did you find a comment that I supported Trump and that I condoned all of the bullshit you wrote?  I am not doing your work for you.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2.23  JohnRussell  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.22    2 weeks ago

So I want to understand this. Are you saying you did not vote for Trump last November? 

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.24  Sunshine  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.23    2 weeks ago

No I did not vote for Trump nor did I vote for Biden.

Now you either apologize for all  the false accusations you made  towards me or prove it. Stand behind your words or stfu. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2.25  JohnRussell  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.24    2 weeks ago

Nope. 

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.26  Sunshine  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.25    2 weeks ago

Not surprised.  

 
 
 
dennis smith
Masters Silent
2.2.27  dennis smith  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.3    2 weeks ago

Trump defeated Hillary as she was much worse.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Masters Silent
2.2.28  dennis smith  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.10    2 weeks ago

Unfortunately that is how some on the left think. 

 
 
 
dennis smith
Masters Silent
2.2.29  dennis smith  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.2.15    2 weeks ago

Are you saying you are not disappointed by Biden regarding the Southern border? 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.2.30  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  dennis smith @2.2.29    2 weeks ago

Are you saying that Trump's wall didn't work, or that the Mexican government didn't pay for it?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2.31  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.4    2 weeks ago

Tig, you are FAR too kind to Trump voters. 

In 2011 Donald Trump became the king birther, spreading the known lie that the then sitting President Obama was not born in the United States (and thus not eligible for office) . In 2011 it was KNOWN that Obama was born in Hawaii because the state of Hawaii OFFICIALLY had said so. Not once, but twice , prior to 2011.   Before Trump ever said one word about it the head of the Hawaii Dept Of Health told reporters that she had personally inspected Obamas long form original birth certificate in the state archives. 

This information was completely available to Donald Trump prior to 2011.   Trump didnt try to find out information, he tried to smear Obama by lying about sending "detectives" to Hawaii. 

Trump should have been forever disqualified from running for office based on his birther lies alone. 

Frankly, he should also have been disqualified for also lying about Ted Cruz father being an accomplice to the Kennedy assassination. 

I am not going to do it, but I could show you pages and pages and pages of information about Trump, all of which should have disqualified him as unfit for office prior to the 2016 election. 

This stuff was all known. 

Trump voters let the country down in 2016. He is far worse than Hillary Clinton could ever be. 

Trump was NEVER, for one second morally , psychologically, or intellectually fit to be president of the United States. 

Who are we to blame for him winning?  The people who didnt vote for him, or the people that did? 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.32  TᵢG  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.17    2 weeks ago
I don’t see any redeeming qualities in the man.  Put up a good democrat for president and the we can talk.

Biden is definitely not a person I would offer as a candidate for PotUS.   But I am amused that you cannot find any redeeming qualities;  especially since the immediate comparison would be to Trump.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.2.33  Kathleen  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.2.2    2 weeks ago

Yes, I was, and I did give him some room in the beginning. Trump is not a saint, but neither is Biden. As I always considered myself a moderate conservative, I generally pick the issues not so much the person. I may not like them as a person, but I do look for how they will handle the problems facing the country. Do I agree with Trumps behavior? No, but I do agree with some of the things he has done. Especially the way he was after the election, and I did mention that. ( this is not for you Perrie, but for some of the others on this thread). I voted for who I thought would help our country.  You are basically “strangers” on this site. You don’t know anything about me and I don’t know anything about you. So whatever you assume about my judgment will mean absolutely nothing to me.  I will vote for whom I want, whenever I want and you can do the same. 

America is a free country, I hope. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.34  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.31    2 weeks ago
I am not going to do it, but I could show you pages and pages and pages of information about Trump, all of which should have disqualified him as unfit for office prior to the 2016 election.

John, you do not seem to consider the individual who voted for Trump because of what he said (his stated policies) regardless of what he is as an individual.   Also, you presume that the balance of the USA is as familiar with Trump as those near or in New York.   That simply is not the case.   So for most of the USA, Trump was what was presented.   Most everyone knew that he was lacking in character, was a liar, a womanizer, etc.   But given those characteristics are common among politicians I doubt they saw Trump as all that different.   So, in total, Trump was just another imperfect character running for office.   But what they seemed to like about him was that he was perceived to be an 'anti-politician' (and clearly not a career politician) who was going to drain the swamp and finally enact the policies that the R base was wanting.

Look at it in those terms and you should understand why people voted for him in 2016.   However, that does not apply now given the depth of his abysmal character is well known.   Those who would vote for him in 2024 are beyond my ability to explain and here I would agree with you that they have no excuse for such a lapse in judgment.

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.35  Sunshine  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.32    2 weeks ago

Did you know Trump is not President?  Why the comparison to Trump? Biden is a bumbling idiot.  Why it obviously greatly bothers you that Biden is criticized seems telling about your partisanship. 

Trump isn’t President anymore...time to let it go.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.36  TᵢG  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.24    2 weeks ago
No I did not vote for Trump nor did I vote for Biden.

I am surprised.   Kudos!

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.37  TᵢG  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.35    2 weeks ago
Trump isn’t President anymore...time to let it go.

That just tells me you have nothing to offer.   When speaking of qualities of Biden as PotUS it makes perfect sense to compare him to other presidents and especially the most recent president.

Why it obviously greatly bothers you that Biden is criticized seems telling about your partisanship. 

Here we go with imagination.   You read my comments (compared to others) and somehow you think I am greatly bothered when Biden is criticized.   So when I am critical of Biden am I bothered by my own words?    When I note Biden fucked up Afghanistan, do you not comprehend that as criticism?

Also, just here:

TiG @2.1.4Criticism of Biden for Afghanistan is healthy and proper. 

Does that sound like someone who is greatly bothered if Biden is criticized?    Tone down your imagination and pay attention to what I write.

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.38  Sunshine  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.37    2 weeks ago

Trump is criticized for his own behavior, policies, decisions, etc.

Biden is responsible for his own also.  Orange man was worse than Biden is old and irrelevant at this point.

Give it a rest...

If someone needs to bring up Trump to defend Biden that tells me they have nothing to offer.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2.39  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.34    2 weeks ago
Also, you presume that the balance of the USA is as familiar with Trump as those near or in New York.   That simply is not the case.   So for most of the USA, Trump was what was presented.  

I'm not in New York wasnt in or near New York in 2015 when he announced he was running.  It is extremely easy to get information about Donald Trump's past. 

I do believe that many people voted for him without knowing much about him , but considering that the Nov '16 election took place 17 months after he announced his candidacy I think the claim that people werent aware of his shortcomings is an inadequate explanation. 

Trump became a viable candidate for one main reason - white grievance. People knew that he had gotten away with his racist birther activities, and from the beginning his 16 campaign was a wink and nod to racism.  His denial on national television that he knew who David Duke was on Feb 28 2016, nine months before election day. A few days prior to that Duke had said that a vote against Trump would be "treason to your heritage."

You are just too accepting of Trump supporters. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.40  CB   replied to  TᵢG @2.2.4    2 weeks ago
That said, I think after four years of that asshole in office coupled with the coup de grâce (his two month con-job big lie) anyone who supports him for reelection thinks ... strangely.

The Trump supporter is not a foolish voter. They are a determined voter bloc. They want what he is 'cookin.' They see it; smell it; taste(d) it.

Some of us can kindly dance around it on tender feet all we want, but it is no mistake that Trump supporters here do not initiate discussion about him, because they prefer Donald J. Trump as president with all his baggage in tow.

I repeat: They want Donald J. Trump to lead this country into his worldview of "by any means necessary" take the country and the world!

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.41  TᵢG  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.38    2 weeks ago

You do not actually read my comments do you?    Looks like you just type canned responses that do not correlate with the comment to which you replied.

Of course Trump is criticized for his own behavior, etc.   And of course Biden is criticized for his own.   Water is wet.   You are not offering anything interesting.

But you end with a strawman ... you ignore my point and jump to a simplistic abstract notion that all I am doing is stating that Trump is worse than Biden. 

You claim you did not vote for Trump but your refusal to even entertain a valid comparison of Biden with the prior PotUS suggests otherwise.

When criticizing a PotUS it is valid to compare to other presidents and even more appropriate to compare to the most recent.  

Buy a vowel.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.2.42  Kathleen  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.31    2 weeks ago

Show me that I SAID I like Trump as a person. I liked his policies, but, that I said he was a good person. 

If you can’t prove that I said that, then back off.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.43  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.39    2 weeks ago
You are just too accepting of Trump supporters. 

Accepting of  is different than understanding.   One can understand a position while being in stark opposition.   Don't make it personal.   I am surrounded by Trump supporters and have tried to understand their mindset for years.   I have summarized what I have learned.

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.44  Sunshine  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.41    2 weeks ago

Get a clue

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2.45  JohnRussell  replied to  Kathleen @2.2.42    2 weeks ago

I dont give a damn if you like him as a person or not.  He was never fit for office. People who are not fit for office should not be voted into office.  Its that damn simple. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.46  CB   replied to  TᵢG @2.2.34    2 weeks ago

A 'masterclass' comment. Okay, you!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.47  CB   replied to  TᵢG @2.2.41    2 weeks ago

Masterclass.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.48  TᵢG  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.44    2 weeks ago

You offer no explanation for your quip.    You clearly have nothing to offer.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.2.49  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.35    2 weeks ago
Trump isn’t President anymore...time to let it go.

When you say things about Biden, who you dislike but they are the same qualities of a guy you barely said anything wrong about, it is hard not to make the comparison. Btw, I personally don't agree with what you have said about Biden as a person and I find it amazing that people who supported Trump, can bash Biden every day without someone saying that they have BDS.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.2.50  Kathleen  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.45    2 weeks ago

That means you can’t. So back off.

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.51  Sunshine  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.2.49    2 weeks ago

Biden has the same rotten qualities as Trump.  He has been proven to have lied many times his entire career in politics.  He has said racist remarks and supported racist policies.  Even his VP implied he was a racist.  Him and his family are a bunch of crooks and thieves.  


No doubt his border policy and handling of the Afghanistan evacuation have proven he is an inept moron.

Yet when have you acknowledged this about Biden? Seems all I see is well he is better than Trump from you and claim he isn’t perfect but better than Trump.  Brushing off he is the same as Trump.

When one doesn’t critique Biden for the same character as Trump   And makes excuses for him such as he just makes “mistakes” or “gaffes”  certainly seems TDS.

When you say things about Biden, who you dislike but they are the same qualities of a guy you barely said anything wrong about,

That door swings both ways

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2.52  JohnRussell  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.51    2 weeks ago

These comments are fucking insanity. 

Sunshine, why did Trump have a rally on Jan 6th ? 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.53  TᵢG  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.51    2 weeks ago
When one doesn’t critique Biden for the same character as Trump   And makes excuses for him such as he just makes “mistakes” or “gaffes”  certainly seems TDS.

Imagine this.   Election day in 2024.    Biden loses reelection.    Instead of dealing with it like every other PotUS (other than Trump) he chooses to deem the election to be a fraud.   He makes countless allegations sans evidence and promotes dozens of frivolous lawsuits.   He tries to pressure officials in a desperate attempt to change the results of the election.   He works his supporters up into a frenzy using the influence of the office he still holds.    And to add to this, he refuses to concede, refuses to attend the inauguration, and while out of office continues the grand lie that he actually won the election even after months of recounts, etc. and pretty much the entire planet knowing that he has no evidence and no case ... that he is simply lying.

If you can see Biden doing that then you have an interesting and warped perception of Biden.   And if you cannot see how Biden (and most people) is not of the same character as Trump then I think you need to take off those partisan blinders.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.2.54  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.8    2 weeks ago
Your list expresses this:

And your's expresses this:  I hate Trump and don't give a damn about America.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.2.55  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.2.20    2 weeks ago
Never have I seen such a divide that he made

That was our dearest 44th president who formed a coalition of various races, genders and goups all to isolate the dreaded "white man."

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.56  Sunshine  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.53    2 weeks ago

but Trump again to defend Biden...too funny.

Still clueless.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.57  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.54    2 weeks ago
And your's expresses this:  I hate Trump and don't give a damn about America.

A purely emotional comment.  

I do not hate Trump.   I just am aware of his abysmal character.   I have no respect for him as a person and do not want him to have any power of any kind.  Labeling this 'hatred' misses the point.   If Trump was just a quiet, ordinary citizen then he would not be discussed.   But he is still out there with supporters who want to see him back as PotUS.   Because of that, his major character flaws are quite relevant.

Now, you say that I do not give a damn about America.   That is an extremely offensive comment.

You need to explain yourself.   I will hold back my comment to give you a chance to rephrase.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.58  TᵢG  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.56    2 weeks ago

Sunshine, your past few comments have been nothing more than drive-by, lame attempts at insults.

Labeling my comments a 'but Trump' defense of Biden suggests you either cannot or will not comprehend the point.   Do you really want to project to everyone that all you can comprehend is 'that comment compares Biden and Trump'?   As if the mere fact of comparison means the comment is devoid of value. 

Suggesting I am clueless on this matter is a bit pathetic since I am the one offering the explanations and analysis while all you have now are emotive quips.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.2.59  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.51    2 weeks ago
When one doesn’t critique Biden for the same character as Trump   And makes excuses for him such as he just makes “mistakes” or “gaffes”  certainly seems TDS.

Funny I don't remember ever doing any of those things. But thanks for playing.

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.60  Sunshine  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.58    2 weeks ago

Look at your own insults dude before you preach from your pulpit.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.61  CB   replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.55    2 weeks ago

What is this about? What? Is this now the 'I hate Obama' segment of the 'show'?

Because I hope you didn't just suggest the only mixed-race president out of 44 other specimens divided this country.  After-all, the mixed president, Obama, was voted on by white citizenry too-some even republicans! Now you can not like that, but you will not be defaming the man with raw malcontent.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.2.62  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.57    2 weeks ago
I do not hate Trump.

I'll leave that one for our readers.


 I just am aware of his abysmal character. 

The same could be said of George Patton, William Tecumseh Sherman and Curtis LeMay. America absolutely needed every one of them.


I have no respect for him as a person and do not want him to have any power of any kind. 

Tough. In 4 years he did everything I wanted done!


Labeling this 'hatred' misses the point. 

It is hatred and I suspect that it extends to his policies and that is the last thing you want me thinking.


If Trump was just a quiet, ordinary citizen then he would not be discussed. 

That's not true. Towards the end of his second term they were doing it to George W (a moderate) and they already have begun targeting Ron DeSantis. Let's face it TiG, those on the left are hell bent on turning this counrty into Oceania. It's as if they read 1984 and said what a great idea!


 But he is still out there with supporters who want to see him back as PotUS.

You bet!


 Because of that, his major character flaws are quite relevant.

Not quite. You see now the democrats will be running on a record - a very radical one that has done considerable damage.


Now, you say that I do not give a damn about America.   That is an extremely offensive comment.

That's what you seemed to express.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
PhD Quiet
2.2.63  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.2.49    2 weeks ago

What about those conservatives that did not vote for or support Trump and do not care for Biden either? Where do they get categorized, or is that a contradiction to some? Just curious.

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.64  Sunshine  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.2.59    2 weeks ago
But thanks for playing.

No problem.  Be happy to explain it for you anytime.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.65  TᵢG  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.60    2 weeks ago

Now it is preaching, eh?   Pulling your quips from a list?

This is a pretty obvious and pathetic way to try to hide the fact that your argument went South.   

JR asked you a question:

JR @2.2.52Sunshine, why did Trump have a rally on Jan 6th ? 

Instead of answering the question like an adult with a mind you choose to shoot spitballs at me.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.66  TᵢG  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.2.63    2 weeks ago
Where do they get categorized ...

Is there a need to find a label for every variation on the theme?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.67  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.62    2 weeks ago
It is hatred and I suspect that it extends to his policies and that is the last thing you want me thinking.

I just told you it is not.   Now you presume to tell me my own thoughts.   Bad form.

That's not true. Towards the end of his second term they were doing it to George W (a moderate) and they already have begun targeting Ron DeSantis. Let's face it TiG, those on the left are hell bent on turning this counrty into Oceania. It's as if they read 1984 and said what a great idea!

You say my comment is not true and then speak of W, DeSantis, etc.   That has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with my point.   Read what I wrote again.   I was telling you why I am critical of Trump now.   If Trump were not active then the only time I would be critical of him today is when it was relevant to compare past presidents.

Not quite.

It is ridiculous for you to claim that Trump's character flaws are 'not quite' relevant.   Of course they are relevant.   If you consider Biden's flaws to be relevant than it is patently absurd for you to not consider Trump's relevant. 

That's what you seemed to express.

In what way?   How could you possibly take anything I said to mean that I do not give a damn about my country?    Be specific.   And when you fail to come up with anything for a second time try to remember to not make entirely unsubstantiated offensive allegations in the future.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.2.68  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  CB @2.2.61    2 weeks ago
Is this now the 'I hate Obama' segment of the 'show'?

Absolutely not. Thanks to clueless Joe Biden, I now regard Obama as a minor tooth ache. 


Because I hope you didn't just suggest the only mixed-race president out of 44 other specimens divided this country. 

I'm afraid I did. It was called the "rainbow coalition."


 After-all, the mixed president, Obama, was voted on by white citizenry too

He couldn't have won without them. He could not have won in a racist country!


Now you can not like that, but you will not be defaming the man with raw malcontent.

What's not to like?

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.69  Sunshine  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.65    2 weeks ago

But Trump again... do you ever get over Trump?  TDS is strong here.  Why do you persist on rehashing Trump? Trump is gone dude he is finished.  Again...put a fork in it.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.2.70  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.67    2 weeks ago
t is ridiculous for you to claim that Trump's character flaws are 'not quite' relevant.   Of course they are relevant.   If you consider Biden's flaws to be relevant than it is patently absurd for you to not consider Trump's relevant. 

I thought you understood politics.  The radical left wing of the democratic party has ruled the country for 8 months. If Biden and Trump were to run against each other this November the issue wouldn't be Trump's comportment or the pandemic - it would be the record of the current administration. If that election was held tomorrow Trump would win!

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Principal
2.2.71  Raven Wing  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.2    2 weeks ago
This topic applies to people like me, and I find it offensive.

Same here. It seems that some people can't get their head wrapped around the fact that there are people in America who are neither Democrats or Republicans, and tend to be accusative of anyone they disagree with as one or the other, when in fact the person they are pointing their 'holier than thou' and feelings of aggrandizement fingers at are in fact neither libs, repubs or progressives. They are in fact people who can think for themselves without being tied to any political agenda or party.

It must somehow make them feel superior to try and defame those they disagree with by making false accusations about.

If they were only half as smart as they think they are they might have a valid contribution to make.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
PhD Quiet
2.2.72  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.66    2 weeks ago

Not by me, but others here seem to have no problem with that.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.73  TᵢG  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.69    2 weeks ago

Yet another drive-by spitball as you ignore the opportunity to actual offer adult commentary by replying to JR.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.74  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.70    2 weeks ago
If that election was held tomorrow Trump would win!

Apparently I understand politics better than you.    Even though this has nothing to do with my point, I will respond.   If the election were to be held tomorrow then Trump might indeed have a shot since Biden's Afghanistan failure is still potent.    

But there is no presidential election to be held tomorrow.    So what is the point other than to note that the reelection probability of a PotUS varies each day based on circumstances?   Well, gee, Vic, thanks for nothing.   Note, now, that it is Trump's abysmal character that remains his biggest negative.   Take that away and Biden surely would lose tomorrow.


Now, per my point: Trump's character flaws are his big negatives.   I have stated repeatedly for years that Trump's positives were the economy, incumbency and a content electorate.   In particular, his R support was strong because his base believed that he was pursuing the agenda they desired. 

So under normal conditions, an ordinary decent person with Trump's, economy, incumbency, content electorate and policies would easily win reelection.   What hurt Trump (always) was his abysmal character.   What killed his reelection, IMO, was his narcissism.   Had he not tried to talk down the pandemic in a misguided attempt to keep the stock market (and the economy) moving he might be PotUS today.   If he had done what was best for the nation (versus what he thought was best for his reelection) things likely would have turned out quite differently.

That was my point.  

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.75  Sunshine  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.73    2 weeks ago

The person that attacks with personal false accusations and then refuses to prove his remarks when asked? 

Your idea of who is an adult is amusing much less of having any ability to carry an adult conversation.

If rehashing Trump is so important to you, then you discuss it with him.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.76  CB   replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.68    2 weeks ago

Your comment is vague and ineffective. Just amorphous words. Thanks for 'playing'?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.77  TᵢG  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.75    2 weeks ago
The person that attacks with personal false accusations and then refuses to prove his remarks when asked? 

What are you talking about?

Your idea of who is an adult is amusing much less of having any ability to carry an adult conversation.

To me an adult is one who can continue a discussion with facts and reason without constantly resorting to meta or other emotive measures to cover a failed argument.

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.78  Sunshine  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.77    2 weeks ago
What are you talking about?
Read all the comments and you will be able to figure it out.
To me an adult is one who can continue a discussion with facts and reason without constantly resorting to meta or other emotive measures to cover a failed argument.
Yep that is an adult conversation.. 
 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.79  TᵢG  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.78    2 weeks ago
Read all the comments and you will be able to figure it out.

More vague bullshit.

Don't find Trump's name in the thread - but Biden's/Pelosi's are.

So cut the drive-by trolling and make a point.   Maybe answer JR's question.   Something constructive.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2.80  JohnRussell  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.75    2 weeks ago

Sunshine, why did Donald Trump hold a huge rally on Jan 6th ? 

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.81  Sunshine  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.79    2 weeks ago
Don't find Trump's name in the thread - but Biden's/Pelosi's are.

What the fuck are you talking about? I didn’t write that.

So cut the drive-by trolling and make a point.   Maybe answer JR's question.   Something constructive.

I have made my points.  Not my problem you can’t comprehend them. If you want Jan 6 th to be discussed, you talk to him and quite your badgering and bullying for anyone else to do it.

Got it? 

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.82  Sunshine  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.80    2 weeks ago

Where is your apology to me?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2.83  JohnRussell  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.75    2 weeks ago

Why was Trump convinced that the election was stolen from him? 

On the evening of the election his aides were telling him that things were looking great based on the early returns. He was ahead of projections in Florida, Pennsylvania , Michigan, etc.  Because his lackeys with him at the White House wanted to butter him up, they led him to believe he was far ahead of Biden. Trump began to feel he was invincible. No one was able to make it crystal clear to him that the same day votes were going to show him with big leads but that the counting of the mail in votes later was going to favor Biden. 

When the later hours of the evening came around and Biden began to surge because the mail in votes were beginning to be counted Trump had a breakdown, like a little kid might have when his favorite football team was up three touchdowns at halftime and the kid was jumping for joy and shouting with glee only to see his team lose in the second half. 

All of his "stop the steal" nonsense proceeded because Trump did not understand the simplest most elementary facts about the election system. 

And you think this moron should be president. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2.84  JohnRussell  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.82    2 weeks ago

I have been watching you here for two or three years. I'm not apologizing to you. I dont even believe you. 

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.85  Sunshine  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.83    2 weeks ago

That isn’t an apology.  
Where is it? 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2.86  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.79    2 weeks ago

Of course she doesnt want to answer the question.  On Jan 6th Trump held a giant rally because he wanted his cult to find a way to go to the Capitol building and convince Mike Pence to send the election back to the state legislatures. Trump was hoping that state legislatures in enough red swing states would override the electoral college and proclaim him to have won the election. 

There was literally no other reason or purpose for the Jan 6th rally. 

And yet we are told that Trump and Biden are "the same". 

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.87  Sunshine  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.84    2 weeks ago

Again, not surprising.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.88  TᵢG  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.81    2 weeks ago

I do not know how that got in the comment.  It was a mistake.   Take a breath.

If you want Jan 6 th to be discussed, you talk to him and quite your badgering and bullying for anyone else to do it.

You have done nothing but troll for the past ½ dozen comments to me and you characterize my recommending you engage in an adult conversation with someone else to be 'badgering and bullying'.

Just more deflection from you.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.89  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.86    2 weeks ago
And yet we are told that Trump and Biden are "the same". 

Yeah, it is difficult to imagine that anyone would fail to see the stark difference between Trump and Biden in terms of character.   Trump makes Madoff look good in terms of character.

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.90  Sunshine  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.88    2 weeks ago

Repeating a request is badgering.  That you can’t understanding that is telling.

Please take your trolling and badgering elsewhere.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
PhD Expert
2.2.91  Greg Jones  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.65    2 weeks ago

TiG wrote: "Instead of answering the question like an adult with a mind you choose to shoot spitballs at me."

Your never ending insults to others grows tiresome

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.2.92  Ender  replied to  Greg Jones @2.2.91    2 weeks ago

Have you admonished anyone else for insults?

 
 
 
MrFrost
PhD Principal
2.2.93  MrFrost  replied to  dennis smith @2.2.27    2 weeks ago

Trump defeated Hillary as she was much worse.

What does that say about Biden beating trump? 

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.2.94  Kathleen  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.80    2 weeks ago

Why do you talk about Trump so much? 

Do you dream about him too?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.95  TᵢG  replied to  Greg Jones @2.2.91    2 weeks ago

Engage me with childish retorts and I will call you on it.   Engage me as an adult and we will have an adult conversation.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
2.2.97  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.55    2 weeks ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
2.2.98  Ronin2  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.18    2 weeks ago
So you thought for yourself regardless of the positions of a particular party in 2016 but now you do not???

Read my post real slowly and real carefully and you will catch on. I am sure you have been around long enough to know that not only did I vote for Gary Johnson in 2016; but I campaigned for him as well. The goal wasn't to win; but to get enough percentage of the popular vote to get the Libertarian Party federal money for future elections. Should have been easy with two POS like Clinton and Trump; however Johnson didn't even come close. In fact many of the people that told me they were going to vote for Johnson in my area went for the lesser of two evils. For my temerity of not voting for Hillary the left dumped me in with the deplorables. 

After 5 and a half years and counting of taking shit from the left; and watching them sink even lower than Trump- I made the decision the left was correct- so no more voting for the best candidate regardless of party. Since the Democrats have proven beyond a doubt they care far more for party than country by their actions; I went with the lesser of two evils and voted straight Republican ticket for the first time ever. I see no reason to change that practice until the Democrats prove themselves capable to lead. So far all they are proving is that they are the most vile thing around. I wouldn't even vote for one for dog catcher.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.99  TᵢG  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.90    2 weeks ago
Repeating a request is badgering.

I was suggesting you make an intelligent adult comment instead of trolling me with invented allegations and insults.

You choose to not do so and instead continue the trolling.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
2.2.100  Split Personality  replied to  Ronin2 @2.2.98    2 weeks ago

Sad confession of vengeance instead of thoughtful independence.

Good to admit to.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
2.2.101  Split Personality  replied to  Split Personality @2.2.97    2 weeks ago

I don't understand why BF made the same comments literally dozens of times without tickets

and this is the 3rd ticket I have gotten from the complaints of the thin skinned political cult.

Oh well.

1/30

jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_68_smiley_image.pngjrSmiley_24_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.102  TᵢG  replied to  Ronin2 @2.2.98    2 weeks ago
After 5 and a half years and counting of taking shit from the left; and watching them sink even lower than Trump- I made the decision the left was correct- so no more voting for the best candidate regardless of party. Since the Democrats have proven beyond a doubt they care far more for party than country by their actions; I went with the lesser of two evils and voted straight Republican ticket for the first time ever. I see no reason to change that practice until the Democrats prove themselves capable to lead. So far all they are proving is that they are the most vile thing around. I wouldn't even vote for one for dog catcher.

I reread your original post and it shed no new light.   Your latest post, however, adds information.   So basically you went from an independent to a partisan.   But you are what I call a strategic partisan in that you have decided that the R party is better for the country than the D party.  (This is in contrast with a conformist partisan who let's the party do his/her thinking and simply parrots the party line.)   Thus you will, seems from your comments, vote straight party line until you see enough of a change in the parties to cause you to reconsider.

So here is my question.   If Trump runs in 2024 would you not be in a quandary?   You are strategically voting for the R party (and, by the way, that is a legitimate way to operate) but does that mean you would vote for Trump simply for consistency?

Seems to me your strategic partisanship would focus on ensuring the R party has a majority in Congress (even if you have to vote for a congressperson you consider to be a poor choice and are simply voting to get that extra R voice).   But that does not need to apply to the president.  If you recognize how abysmal Trump is, then I would expect that you would go with the D candidate if s/he were at least a decent person.   But maybe you are of the mindset that only policy matters and you will put aside the damning character flaws of a man who would be PotUS because that man makes the right promises.

Similarly, with a strategic partisan position, would you be inclined to engage in the petty partisan crap that is spewed on forums?   What is the point, for example, of nit-picking on Biden looking at his watch, calling him senile, etc. that is oft done on forums (especially when Biden is already standing in a pile of crap of his own making)?   You could vote for the R control but not engage in the trollish, childish nonsense that typically flows from conformist partisans.

Too many people are being ridiculous with Biden simply because he is a D and this is furthered by built up animosity from the many slams (mostly earned) against Trump.   Because 'they did it to us' they conclude 'we are going to do it to them'.

Do you support that behavior or do you prefer to engage in objective criticism (or praise) based on the merits regardless of party?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.2.103  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.55    2 weeks ago
That was our dearest 44th president who formed a coalition of various races, genders and goups all to isolate the dreaded "white man."

I would have to disagree and I didn't even like Obama. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.104  CB   replied to  Ronin2 @2.2.98    2 weeks ago

How long has it been since Libertarians have quarters with Republicans and Conservatives?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.2.105  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.2.103    2 weeks ago

Fair enough.

 
 
 
Thomas
Sophomore Guide
2.2.106  Thomas  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.70    2 weeks ago
The radical left wing of the democratic party has ruled the country for 8 months.

HAHAHAHA! 

OH, and Woof!

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.2.107  Sparty On  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.2    2 weeks ago

You are an enigma in this place Perrie, you know that, so you really shouldn't take this article personal.

That said, anyone who is disappointed they voted for Biden because of his actions didn't have their eyes and ears open the previous 40 years.   But don't take my word for it, take it from his former boss.

"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to F things up"

-Barack Obama

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.108  Tessylo  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.60    2 weeks ago

"Look at your own insults dude before you preach from your pulpit."

TiG HAS NEVER INSULTED ANYONE, EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.3  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Kathleen @2    2 weeks ago
Anyway, Biden lost all my respect after this last disaster. 

I can understand that, but I bet if you were honest, you never liked Biden so what happened in Afganastan really didn't change your POV much. I am not pleased with the way things went. But there are other things I do like about Biden, like acting presidential and having a full staff, and the infrastructure bill and his handling of covid and not caving to the extreme left. He's not perfect, but I feel he is better than Trump.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.3.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.3    2 weeks ago
I can understand that, but I bet if you were honest, you never liked Biden so what happened in Afganastan really didn't change your POV much.

lol.   She has been bitching about Biden since before the election. 

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Participates
2.3.2  MonsterMash  replied to  JohnRussell @2.3.1    2 weeks ago
She has been bitching about Biden since before the election. 

And you were bitching about Trump as soon as he was nominated.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.3.3  JohnRussell  replied to  MonsterMash @2.3.2    2 weeks ago

No, before he was nominated.  He is the most unfit for office person in American history. 

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Masters Participates
2.3.4  Jasper2529  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.3    2 weeks ago
But there are other things I do like about Biden, like acting presidential ...

Yes ...

  • As candidate and POTUS, Biden often meekly referred/refers to "they" not allowing him to do or say things. He's refused to take questions unless "they" have given him a very limited, pre-approved list of reporters AND questions. And "they" have given him scripted responses that he very often cannot coherently read. 
  • As CiC, he repeatedly looked at his watch and certainly did act very "presidential" while 13 Americans in their coffins were repatriated to American soil at Dover AFB. 
and having a full staff

I'm not sure what you mean by "staff". Does "staff" include the FDA? If it does, Biden still hasn't appointed anyone to head this extremely important organization, especially since we're still in the throes of the Covid-19 (and variants) pandemic gifted to the world by the CCP with US taxpayer monetary assistance provided by Fauci's and Collins' NIAID and NIH. To date, the only vaccine that the FDA has fully approved is Pfizer, but Moderna isn't. Also, blue state governors and their Departments of Health are currently posting on social media that everyone needs to get a booster shot, although the FDA hasn't yet reviewed the scientific data to support this.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.3.5  Kathleen  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.3    2 weeks ago

That’s good, and you have the right to feel that way. So I have that right too, right? I am very disappointed with him. 

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.3.6  Kathleen  replied to  JohnRussell @2.3.1    2 weeks ago

Stop making this personal.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.3.7  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Jasper2529 @2.3.4    2 weeks ago
As candidate and POTUS, Biden often meekly referred/refers to "they" not allowing him to do or say things. He's refused to take questions unless "they" have given him a very limited, pre-approved list of reporters AND questions. And "they" have given him scripted responses that he very often cannot coherently read. 

He takes questions from the Press, which Trump stopped doing. Trump's speeches were also scripted and they were the biggest, bestest, most beautiful speeches... just ask him.

  • As CiC, he repeatedly looked at his watch and certainly did act very "presidential" while 13 Americans in their coffins were repatriated to American soil at Dover AFB. 

Been there done this. He may or may not have glanced at his watch. I'd rather that than a pussy grabbing president. Is that very "presidential"?

I'm not sure what you mean by "staff". Does "staff" include the FDA? If it does, Biden still hasn't appointed anyone to head this extremely important organization...

Janet Woodcock is the Acting since January 20, 2021, so he doesn't have to appoint a new person if he doesn't want to, since there is no fixed term, just like Fauci has been in his position through many presidencies. 

Also, blue state governors and their Departments of Health are currently posting on social media that everyone needs to get a booster shot, although the FDA hasn't yet reviewed the scientific data to support this.

That has nothing to do with Biden, does it? Also, there is data from Israel saying that antibodies diminish over time and that a booster is needed. It is awaiting review.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.3.8  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Kathleen @2.3.5    2 weeks ago

Kathleen, I never said you didn't have the right. In fact, I do believe I said that to you from the get-go. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.3.9  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @2.3.1    2 weeks ago

And you were bitching about Trump on a daily basis since I've been here.  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.3.10  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @2.3.3    2 weeks ago
He is the most unfit for office person in American history. 

That's a slogan and a bad one with Biden in office.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Masters Participates
2.3.11  Jasper2529  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.3.7    2 weeks ago

Thank you for your Independent perspective that degrades Trump yet lauds Biden. Thanks also for continuing to defend Biden's watch-checking while continuing to spread lies of left-wing allegations that Trump actually grabbed pussies. Sheesh. "Independent Voter"??

As to anything else ... whatever. Your comment didn't focus on the reality and facts in my comment, but deflected. So be it. Ciao.

 

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.3.12  Ender  replied to  Jasper2529 @2.3.11    2 weeks ago

Do you ever stop to think a voter can be independent and not like donald?

Did he not say grab them by the pussy?

I have seen her not happy with Biden yet because she does not stomp her feet and call him names she is defending him?

Actually, I have seen her complain about hypocrisy more so than defend anything.

Sorry that is so hard for some to grasp.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.3.13  TᵢG  replied to  Jasper2529 @2.3.11    2 weeks ago

Independent does not mean that one automatically equates both sides of the political spectrum.   One can be independent and harshly critical of Trump while finding relative good in Biden.   Independent ≠ moderate.

Thanks also for continuing to defend Biden's watch-checking while continuing to spread lies of left-wing allegations that Trump actually grabbed pussies.

Making a big deal about Biden looking at his watch is petty and counterproductive.   Given Biden just stepped into a shit pile of his own making, it is tactically stupid to focus on such nonsense and deflect away from Afghanistan (or other issues such as the border, COVID-19 Delta, etc.).

And Trump claimed he 'grabbed pussies' (voice recording) so how does this become a lie?

 
 
 
Greg Jones
PhD Expert
2.3.14  Greg Jones  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.3    2 weeks ago

Biden hasn't handled anything well.....

 
 
 
MrFrost
PhD Principal
2.3.15  MrFrost  replied to  Greg Jones @2.3.14    2 weeks ago

Biden hasn't handled anything well.....

HOW many people have been vaccinated? 

512

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
2.3.16  Split Personality  replied to  Greg Jones @2.3.14    2 weeks ago

How many people were evacuated from Af'stan?

Jesus, do you ever think before posting any more?

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
2.3.17  Ronin2  replied to  MrFrost @2.3.15    2 weeks ago

You mean the "Trump" vaccines right? The ones that both Biden and Harris said they would refuse to take?

Like any hint of economic improvement before the Nov. 3 contest, a COVID-19 vaccine could tip public opinion in President Trump's favor. That political reality means the 2020 Democratic ticket is now balancing its hopes for a vaccine with its White House aspirations.

2020 Democratic vice presidential nominee Kamala Harris this weekend overtly undermined any COVID-19 vaccine rolled out by the Trump administration in the fall. She told CNN Sunday she didn't "trust" the White House incumbent.

"I will not take his word for it," the California senator said. "He's looking at an election coming up in less than 60 days, and he's grasping to get whatever he can to pretend he has been a leader on this issue when he is not."

Harris reiterated her concern in a Monday interview with WISN. She told the Wisconsin ABC-affiliate she'd wait until "the public health professionals and the scientists told us that we can trust it."

2020 Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden also broached the issue of trust during a Friday fundraiser. He was adamant "politics shouldn't play any role" in vaccine development.

“My guess is he is going to announce a vaccine. He's going to say it's going to be available around Election Day. He's going to hype it,” Biden told donors.

Yet Biden diverged from his running mate Monday. Instead, he tied his anxieties regarding Trump's strategy to people being "reluctant" to take "a really good vaccine."

"But pray [to] God we have it. If I could get a vaccine tomorrow, I'd do it. If it cost me the election, I'd do it. We need a vaccine, and we need it now," he repeated.

The pair then issued a statement Tuesday asking for specifics on Trump's plan for the vaccine, pointing out mistakes already made by Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Stephen Hahn.

"We cannot allow a repeat of Trump’s testing and personal protective equipment fiascos when it comes to a COVID-19 vaccine," they wrote.

The focus on the safety and efficacy of a vaccine is a shift from when Biden was preoccupied with whether Trump would bungle its manufacture and distribution.

Then the jackasses did an about face once they won the election- the vaccines became the greatest things ever. Of course they couldn't give Trump any credit for their quick roll out; or the distribution system he put in place.

We’ll start with the claim that the Trump administration hadn’t ordered “enough vaccines.” As we’ve written before , the federal government, as of Dec. 31, had contracted to buy at least 800 million COVID-19 vaccine doses with delivery by July 31. Those doses included vaccines from four companies who have not yet received FDA authorization.

And a Government Accountability Office report , released on Jan. 28, said in a footnote that updated information from the vaccine companies and the Department of Defense “indicate there are at least one billion vaccine doses under contract as of January 2021. Moreover, the government may acquire additional doses through the exercise of options or execution of new agreements.”

So, the Trump administration had clearly ordered “enough” vaccine doses for the U.S. population. However, the issue right now is that only the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines are authorized. (The FDA’s vaccine advisory committee is meeting on Feb. 26 to discuss the Janssen Biotech vaccine candidate.)

In December, Pfizer and Moderna had agreed to provide 400 million doses (200 million each) by the end of July. The initial agreement with the Trump administration was for 200 million doses total from the two companies, but it made agreements for another 200 million total, according to the GAO report.

The Biden administration announced this month the two companies would provide yet another 200 million doses by the end of July, for a total of 600 million.

And Biden announced the federal government would get some of those doses sooner than previously expected, with 100 million of the doses from each company promised by the end of May, rather than the end of June.

It’s worth noting that the Trump administration could have increased its order with Pfizer and Moderna as well. The U.S. government announced its initial agreement with Pfizer in July, contracting for 100 million doses of a COVID-19 vaccine once it was approved. That agreement included an option to acquire an additional 500 million doses from Pfizer.

Similarly, the government’s initial contract with Moderna, announced in August , was for 100 million doses of a vaccine once approved, with an option to buy another 400 million doses.

As for Biden’s claim that there was “no real plan to vaccinate most of the country,” the Washington Post Fact Checker wrote about a similar claim from Vice President Kamala Harris. The Fact Checker explained that there were vaccination plans that the Biden administration had built upon. But the two administrations have a philosophical difference on how much of a role the federal government, as opposed to state and local entities, should play in vaccinating the country.

On Sept. 16, nearly three months before the first FDA authorization of a COVID-19 vaccine, the Department of Health and Human Services, with support from the Department of Defense and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, released a report to Congress , outlining a strategy for vaccine distribution and a playbook for states and localities “on how to plan and operationalize a vaccination response to COVID-19 within their respective jurisdictions,” according to the HHS press release.

The Government Accountability Office, however, in a report released Jan. 28 , said it had recommended that HHS go further to “establish a time frame for documenting and sharing a national plan for distributing and administering COVID-19 vaccine” including “how efforts would be coordinated across federal agencies and nonfederal entities.” GAO said that its recommendation hadn’t been “fully implemented.”

Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told CNN on Feb. 16 that there had been a vaccine distribution plan but a “rather vague” plan on “getting the vaccine doses into people’s arms.”

“Getting the vaccines made, getting them shipped through Operation Warp Speed was okay,” Fauci said. “But I believe what the vice president is referring to is what is the process of actually getting these doses into people. That is something that we had to get much better organized now with getting the community vaccine centers, getting the pharmacies involved, getting mobile units involved.”

The Biden administration has taken steps to increase the number of people who can administer the vaccines and where the shots can be given, including by shipping vaccines directly to retail pharmacies and opening mass vaccination sites operated by the Federal Emergency Management Agency. These steps have also come as vaccine availability has increased.

When Biden lies he tells whoppers; and the left lap them up.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
2.3.18  Gordy327  replied to  Ronin2 @2.3.17    2 weeks ago

They never said they would refuse to take them. They said they would take them if a doctor recommend it, not if a politician does. Intentionally misquoting or misrepresenting someone is as good as lying.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.3.19  TᵢG  replied to  Greg Jones @2.3.14    2 weeks ago

Nothing?   Everything Biden has done as PotUS has been done poorly?   You do not even give him credit for staying on message as PotUS regarding the pandemic and making vaccines available to everyone while continuing to encourage those who (bizarrely) refuse to get vaccinated?    Did he screw up in the handling of hurricane Ida?  

Biden screwed up on Afghanistan and his border policies are incoherent but to categorically deem everything he has done to be done 'not well' suggests a lack of objectivity.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
2.3.20  Split Personality  replied to  TᵢG @2.3.19    2 weeks ago

Nothing less can be expected of fanatical partisans be they left or right,

but mostly, right, lol.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.3.21  TᵢG  replied to  Ronin2 @2.3.17    2 weeks ago
The ones that both Biden and Harris said they would refuse to take?

Read your own quote.   Harris famously stated that she would not take the vaccine if Trump recommended but would if credible medical authorities recommended it.

Sounds like a reasonable position to take.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.3.22  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Jasper2529 @2.3.11    2 weeks ago
Thank you for your Independent perspective that degrades Trump yet lauds Biden. Thanks also for continuing to defend Biden's watch-checking while continuing to spread lies of left-wing allegations that Trump actually grabbed pussies. Sheesh. "Independent Voter"??

Listen up. Trump said it himself. You might want to listen:

And that is Fox News reporting that, so, so much for lies and left wing allegations.

And I don't laud anyone. I just don't talk about garbage, like watch checking. I talk about issues that matter. 

And considering I voted for a libertarian in the last election, I think I know more about independent voting than you do. 

But please feel free to throw around more personal condescending comments. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
2.3.23  Split Personality  replied to  Jasper2529 @2.3.11    2 weeks ago
Your comment didn't focus on the reality and facts in my comment, but deflected. So be it. Ciao.  

Your facts have been proven wrong so many times, you were decertified by the NV fact police

a long time before pizza gate and Obama killed his gay church guy lover gate.

Good times, good memories of your silliness and partisan gullibility.

Thank you for so many smiles and laughter.

Appreciate it!

 
 
 
MrFrost
PhD Principal
2.3.24  MrFrost  replied to  Ronin2 @2.3.17    2 weeks ago
You mean the "Trump" vaccines right

The same ones the have tracking chips and turn people into lizard people from Si-2000? 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.3.25  Tessylo  replied to  Jasper2529 @2.3.11    2 weeks ago
"As to anything else ... whatever. Your comment didn't focus on the reality and facts in my comment, but deflected. So be it. Ciao."

What facts?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.4  CB   replied to  Kathleen @2    2 weeks ago

Trump deserves to be bashed. I won't shy away from telling it like it is on any one of the political class. You can like who you wish, but Trump is a son-of-the-devil and more to the point he knows it.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.4.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  CB @2.4    2 weeks ago
. I won't shy away from telling it like it is

But you tend shy away from hearing it like it is!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.4.2  CB   replied to  Vic Eldred @2.4.1    2 weeks ago

LOL. Are you sputtering or teasing? Please, elaborate.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.4.3  Kathleen  replied to  CB @2.4    2 weeks ago

I am not shying away CB. I was not even going to vote the last election because I really didn’t want either candidate.  I did not want to put a Democrat in the Oval Office.  Biden is not a moderate in my opinion. So I picked the other. Didn’t like him.... but I was more familiar with his stand on certain issues. I also agreed with some of the decisions that he made.  Again, I don’t care who you vote for, so please don’t tell me who I should vote for.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.4.4  CB   replied to  Kathleen @2.4.3    2 weeks ago
You can like who you wish, but Trump is a son-of-the-devil and more to the point he knows it.

You can vote for whom you wish. You did, eh? That said, a politician can be son-of-the-devil getting a vote.

I do not like conservative policies that alienate innocent people based on moral baggage, especially when it is a foregone conclusion that some innocent people are living out lives of misery in this country in the shadows simply because of who/what they are, while others live out lives of happiness and prosperity just for being who/what they are.

That bothers me to the ng degree.

Let me share something with you. I watch a commercial out here in California that 'squeezes my heart' as an old Christian homosexual celibate. The part of interest:

Woman says something so run of the mill like this: 'I married my childhood sweetheart and we have been together for 35 years and counting. . . '

That's part gets me every time. Because, in my world, I was not permitted by law put into place by conservative society to date my childhood "sweetheart" and certainly could not marry the same.

Do you know how old I am today? I'm much, much, old.. . er.  So old, that love has evaded me and I have learned to do without intimacy. So when you say that voting does not matter too, so much, it does.

No adult should have to live, or die from hatred, because of loving someone that could love them back (for a life time) but society won't permit it.

Have you ever stopped to think or reflect on how hard it is for a homosexual boy, girl, man, or woman -beyond the spotlight you see us in - to live when society is constantly trying to snuff what you are at your core out?! And it won't come out?

Perhaps you should consider what some people are doing for career goals, we are fighting back against simply because we want some 'outcasts' to have a chance at true happiness and prosperity and yes real life-long love. And yes, a spiritual 'walk' to as a time of their choosing; not foisted upon one, two, or the group of them.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.4.5  Kathleen  replied to  CB @2.4.4    2 weeks ago

Socially I lean more left so you know...

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.4.6  CB   replied to  Kathleen @2.4.5    2 weeks ago

Trump's evangelical wings wishes 'bad things' for same-sex marriage and same-sex couples. It matters, immensely. Especially if the bullying starts on school playgrounds again and in clubs and in office buildings and in job selections, and in armed services. Evangelicals in the republican party want to return to the way it used to be as a good way to live in the future. It is not a good way at all for those who would be outcast. You can't support expanding freedom for all people and choose a candidate that suppresses whole swaths of the citizenry. That "creature" can not stand.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
PhD Quiet
2.5  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Kathleen @2    2 weeks ago

He lost all of mine after Afghanistan and his handling of the Southern border crisis.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.5.1  Kathleen  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.5    2 weeks ago

Me too... I did not care for him before that, but that made me realize some things.

 
 
 
MrFrost
PhD Principal
2.5.2  MrFrost  replied to  Kathleen @2.5.1    2 weeks ago

WWI - 9.7 million dead "So?"

WWII - 20 million dead "So?"

Korea - 5 million dead "So?"

Vietnam - 56,000 dead "So?"

Afghanistan - 2372 dead "So?"

Afghanistan withdrawal - 12 dead, (with ZERO dead previous to that under Biden's administration) "Biden is a fucking monster!!!!!"

Covid-19 - 550,000 dead, (under trump) - "So?" 

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.5.3  Kathleen  replied to  MrFrost @2.5.2    2 weeks ago

I have the freedom to pick and choose who I like and don’t. That goes for the people on here too. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
2.5.4  Ronin2  replied to  MrFrost @2.5.2    2 weeks ago
Afghanistan withdrawal - 12 dead

It was 13; [removed]

Also, you forgot the important part, the evacuation- not surprising. Hundreds of US citizens abandoned; along with thousands of Afghans that made the mistake of aiding the US. Taliban hunting people down and killing them.  [removed]

Covid-19 - 550,000 dead, (under trump) - "So?" 

Covid-19- 98,957 dead and counting (under Biden)- "So?"

You were partially right on one thing, "Biden and the Democrats are fucking monsters!!!!!!" Fixed it for you.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
PhD Quiet
2.5.5  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  MrFrost @2.5.2    2 weeks ago

Sorry, but Vietnam was 58,220, not 56,000.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.5.6  CB   replied to  Ronin2 @2.5.4    2 weeks ago

Wasn't it you who not a wee breath ago was talking about 'the lesser evil in 2020 presidential election cycle? Why are you in plain sight of everybody carrying Trump's load? It's inconsistent, . . . libertarian/republican/conservative.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Masters Silent
2.5.7  dennis smith  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.5.5    2 weeks ago

Apparently undercounting deaths in Vietnam apparently doesn't matter to some. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.5.8  TᵢG  replied to  dennis smith @2.5.7    2 weeks ago
Apparently undercounting deaths in Vietnam apparently doesn't matter to some. 

Chickenshit attack.    Mr. Frost was off by 3.8%.  He also stated 56,000 which indicates he was approximating.  It is not as if he claimed 10,000 deaths or something that is clearly an exaggerated undercount.

But you simply push ahead with nitpicking so as to presume the worst about the guy ... that he does not care about the deaths of Vietnam soldiers.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.5.9  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  TᵢG @2.5.8    2 weeks ago

And let's not forget that Mr. Frost actually served. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.5.10  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @2.5.8    2 weeks ago
Chickenshit attack. 

Right back at ya.

I know plenty of families of that 3.8% that care what the actual number is.   Even if you don't.

My family included.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.5.11  Sparty On  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.5.9    2 weeks ago

And so did i.

I have little doubt that Mr Frost's error was unintentional

I also have little doubt that he will defend the error.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.5.12  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @2.5.10    2 weeks ago
I know plenty of families of that 3.8% that care what the actual number is.  

You too?   You presume Mr. Frost does not care about Vietnam soldier deaths because he thought the death count was ~56,000 instead of 58,220??

And now you presume that I do not care about their deaths now because I objected to the chickenshit attack on him?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.5.13  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @2.5.11    2 weeks ago
I have little doubt that Mr Frost's error was unintentional

'have little doubt' = 'there isn't much room for doubt.'

Why would Mr. Frost, while listing stats, choose to shave off 3.8% of a number?    If he was trying to downplay the deaths why not go with 10,000?   After all, he would have to believe that nobody would know or look up the current recorded death count.

Further, it goes against his point to downplay the deaths since he was making a comparison of the Afghanistan war and withdrawal deaths to other wars.

A little logic goes a long way.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2.5.14  Kavika   replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.5.5    2 weeks ago

Actually, it is considerably more than 58,200 since those that died of agent orange after the end of the war are not counted as KIA in Vietnam. Two very good friends of mine are in that category and a third is fighting that battle as we speak.

Mr. Frost served in the military, Marines if I remember correctly, there is no reason for him to intentionally misrepresent the number KIA.

This comment is not directed at you Doc, but to those questioning his motives.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.5.15  JohnRussell  replied to  Sparty On @2.5.11    2 weeks ago

This seed is turning into a stupidity factory. 

WWI - 9.7 million dead "So?"

WWII - 20 million dead "So?"

Korea - 5 million dead "So?"

Vietnam - 56,000 dead "So?"

Afghanistan - 2372 dead "So?"

Afghanistan withdrawal - 12 dead, (with ZERO dead previous to that under Biden's administration) "Biden is a fucking monster!!!!!"

Covid-19 - 550,000 dead, (under trump) - "So?" 

Far more than 20 million people died in WW2.  But , so what?  It is obvious that the purpose of his comment was to contrast the 13 dead at the Afghansistan airport bombing with truly large numbers of deaths in other conflicts. 

I think Mr Frost made a good point.  Some people are saying that Biden is a monster because 13 US troops were killed. 

Im still thinking of the 240 some US marines who were killed by a terrorist attack after Reagan needlessly ordered them to go to Lebanon. 

240 is still more than 13 isnt it? 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.5.16  TᵢG  replied to  Kavika @2.5.14    2 weeks ago

Watch out Kavika, Sparty and dennis are going to presume that you do not care about the 20 deaths you left out of your count (58,200 vs. 58,220).  

After all, there is little doubt you intentionally dropped those 20.   Why don't you care about those lost lives?    256  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.5.17  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @2.5.15    2 weeks ago
This seed is turning into a stupidity factory. 

Agreed.   People tripping all over themselves to pick fights and defying obvious logic (common sense even) to do so.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.5.18  TᵢG  replied to  Kavika @2.5.14    2 weeks ago
Mr. Frost served in the military, Marines if I remember correctly, there is no reason for him to intentionally misrepresent the number KIA.

And Mr. Frost's point is strengthened by a larger number and weakened by a smaller number.   They are so quick to attack (superficially) they did not even think about the point he was making.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.5.19  Kathleen  replied to  JohnRussell @2.5.15    2 weeks ago

Just one person is bad enough. That goes for all not just the 13 on Biden’s watch. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.5.20  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Sparty On @2.5.11    2 weeks ago
I have little doubt that Mr Frost's error was unintentional I also have little doubt that he will defend the error.

As he should since it was unintentional.

 
 
 
MrFrost
PhD Principal
2.5.21  MrFrost  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.5.5    2 weeks ago

Sorry, but Vietnam was 58,220, not 56,000.

Correct, apologies. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
PhD Principal
2.5.22  MrFrost  replied to  Ronin2 @2.5.4    2 weeks ago
It was 13; not that you care.

You are aware that I am a U.S.M.C. combat veteran, correct? 

 
 
 
MrFrost
PhD Principal
2.5.23  MrFrost  replied to  Sparty On @2.5.11    2 weeks ago

I also have little doubt that he will defend the error.

I did apologize for the slight error. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
PhD Principal
2.5.24  MrFrost  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.5.9    2 weeks ago

And let's not forget that Mr. Frost actually served. 

It was an honor to do so, and thank you. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
PhD Principal
2.5.25  MrFrost  replied to  TᵢG @2.5.8    2 weeks ago
Chickenshit attack.    Mr. Frost was off by 3.8%.  He also stated 56,000 which indicates he was approximating.  It is not as if he claimed 10,000 deaths or something that is clearly an exaggerated undercount.

Exactly, and thank you. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.5.26  TᵢG  replied to  MrFrost @2.5.23    2 weeks ago

Will you receive an apology for presuming (outrageously) that you do not care (enough) about those who died in combat? 

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.5.27  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @2.5.12    2 weeks ago

I presume neither and would appreciate you not trying to put words in my mouth.

That said, see 2.5.11 if you have any further questions.   It more than answers your "chickenshit" concerns.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.5.28  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @2.5.16    2 weeks ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.5.29  Sparty On  replied to  MrFrost @2.5.23    2 weeks ago

I figured you would and apologize the way my comment came i out.  

I meant to say you would apologize for the error, not that you wouldn't

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.5.30  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @2.5.27    2 weeks ago
I presume neither and would appreciate you not trying to put words in my mouth.

Always dodging.    Fine, I will simply be more specific.

Is it your position that Mr. Frost made an honest mistake and that he does indeed care about every military death?   (You have implicitly answered 'yes')

If so then dennis' comment which implied that Mr. Frost did not care about every military death was a chickenshit attack.

So why would you defend dennis' chickenshit attack of Mr. Frost and thus support his outrageous presumption about Mr. Frost?

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.5.31  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @2.5.30    2 weeks ago
Always dodging.

Bullshit, you're the last thing i'll need to dodge.   That's for sure.

My point was clear by what i posted and owe you no more explanation.

You blowing this up into something that is isn't, seems like  a personal problem on your part to me.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.5.32  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @2.5.31    2 weeks ago

You blew this up when you defended dennis' attack on Mr. Frost where he implied that Mr. Frost did not care about every military death.   

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.5.33  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @2.5.32    2 weeks ago

Bullshit, you blew it up when you took umbrage to it.

[Deleted]

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.5.35  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @2.5.33    2 weeks ago

You continue to dodge.

It is your stated position (today) that Mr. Frost made an honest mistake and that he does indeed care about every military death.  

Thus dennis' comment which implied that Mr. Frost did not care about every military death was a chickenshit attack.

You, however, defended dennis' chickenshit attack of Mr. Frost and thus supported his outrageous presumption about Mr. Frost.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.5.36  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @2.5.35    2 weeks ago
You continue to dodge.

Nope, and it's not even debatable.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.5.37  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @2.5.36    2 weeks ago

Another nuh'uh.   You defended dennis' outrageous presumption that Mr. Frost did not care about every military death.   There is no denying that fact.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.5.38  CB   replied to  Kavika @2.5.14    2 weeks ago

Exceptional comment. Thank you, Sir! jrSmiley_124_smiley_image.gif You guys that served in Vietnam were so young. I can still here the word: "19":

3-D Performs Paul Hardcastle's "19"

* Video is a bit old and probably received quite a bit of viewing usage. But, it is very interesting. I salute you!

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
PhD Quiet
2.5.39  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  MrFrost @2.5.21    2 weeks ago

Honest and unintentional error. No apology necessary. Semper Fi Sir!

 
 
 
dennis smith
Masters Silent
2.5.40  dennis smith  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.5.9    2 weeks ago

I also served in country and have never forgotten exactly how many died. 

 
 
 
dennis smith
Masters Silent
2.5.41  dennis smith  replied to  MrFrost @2.5.21    2 weeks ago

Thank you Mr Frost.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.5.42  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @2.5.37    2 weeks ago

Another sophomoric remark.   This issue has been resolved and yet you seem to have a need to "win" a debate that isn't there.   [Deleted]

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.5.43  CB   replied to  CB @2.5.38    2 weeks ago

There are some lingering questions from the Viet Nam war* that this song engenders:

  1. Why was the average soldier's age 19 at the time?
  2. Besides the "Melee Massacre," why did "none of them receive a hero's welcome" home?
  3. Like "Amerasian" children imported to the U.S,. . . will there be "Amerghan" children coming after?

* I know Viet Nam era questions can be dangerous ground and memories to tread across. If so, do not bother with this line of questioning, please.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
PhD Quiet
2.5.44  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  CB @2.5.43    2 weeks ago

In answer to your three questions.

1.  19 was the average age of high school grads that were drafted or enlisted.

2.   It was the My Lai massacre. Thank the pervasive anti-war movement and media in America that was the reason no welcome home was given to Vietnam Vets. We were all just warmongering baby killers according to them.

3.   It is entirely possible that said children will be coming in the future.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.5.45  Sparty On  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.5.44    2 weeks ago

And the daughter of a Hmong immigrant won the Olympic Women's Gymnastic Overall this year for the USA.

What a great country eh?

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
PhD Quiet
2.5.46  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Sparty On @2.5.45    2 weeks ago

Yes it is a great country. A shame some have forgotten that.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.5.47  Sparty On  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.5.46    2 weeks ago

Yep but haters gotta hate right?

A universal truth of the easily triggered ....

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.5.48  CB   replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.5.44    2 weeks ago

Thank you for the correction on the name.  Mỹ Lai massacre.  (I once saw the incorrect spelling as a child and learned it that way base on its sound.) And if you can indulge my ignorance on WHY 19 years old were drafted in such large numbers? Where were the 'older' young adults? I like to see if I can learn from someone who lived it; get some 'real-world' perspective versus 'booking.' We still have some veterans of 'Nam (if I can be so bold to use the term) here.

Was the lack of a hero's welcome all because of the 'massacre' or an outgrowth of something more sinister like sending "youth" to war?

Ed-NavDoc, you used the term, "we," with respect are you a Viet Nam veteran?

I wonder about Afghanistan-American children being left there, because it is a strong Muslim country. The rules of sex are a little different, I am guessing.

(I am on an interlude to understand a period of our history while we have members like Kavika, for instance, around to enlighten us with stories and truths. No judgement.)

I did always hate the way the soldiers of Viet Nam were said to have been treated on return. I just don't understand how cruel politics can be at times.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.5.49  CB   replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.5.46    2 weeks ago

We are a great country. Emphatically.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3  TᵢG    2 weeks ago
How many people are true moderates or independents?

-and-

Vic @1 ☞ The pragmatic middle?

You speak of moderates and independents as if they are equivalent.    That is not true.   Moderates refer to individuals who try to stay in the middle between the extremes.   That is not how an independent operates.   Independents are individuals who make up their own positions based on the facts.   That is, they do not adopt a position simply because their party deems it correct.   Further, there are independents who align with a particular party.  These are people who find that their own personally conceived positions tend to align with their party.  

How could so many have been fooled by a candidate who needed to be hidden away during the campaign?

Personally, Biden has not surprised me.    He has disappointed me but, then again, my reality is not clouded with thick partisan lenses so I do not take every negative to the uber-extreme.

Biden was elected (IMO) because he was the only option other than Trump.   That is how bad Trump was.   In spite of having a fortunate presidency (great economy) and catering to the wishes of his base (policy wise), Trump managed to fuck up his chances for reelection because of his abysmal lack of character and his narcissism.   If Trump had done the right thing from the start (face the pandemic rather than try to talk it away) he likely would have been reelected on momentum (in spite of his personal flaws).

The liberal agenda is a function of the electorate in the USA doing what it does:  it shifts from D to R and back again.   It does not matter who is the D PotUS.   If the Ds have control like they have right now, the policies will shape themselves.   This is not driven by Biden, this is the D machinery with power.   However, if you do not like Biden, just imagine the open floodgates if a president Harris were to happen with D control of Congress.   I suggest you root for Biden until 2024.

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
3.1  Sunshine  replied to  TᵢG @3    2 weeks ago

I don’t see how Harris could be worse at this point.  What policies is Biden blocking that Harris would move forward with?  The party has already moved far left with Biden.  

Like you said this is a D machinery and Biden is riding along.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.1  TᵢG  replied to  Sunshine @3.1    2 weeks ago
I don’t see how Harris could be worse at this point.  What policies is Biden blocking that Harris would move forward with?  The party has already moved far left with Biden.  

Well, Biden is not pushing the agenda.   Biden is allowing it  (one of my disappointments ... I had hoped he would be more moderate).   Harris, however, would absolutely NOT be moderate and would without question push a heavily liberal agenda.

Now, consider what I just offered and tell me that you would not be concerned if Biden died tomorrow.

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
3.1.2  Sunshine  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.1    2 weeks ago

She would more than likely have the same team behind her so I see no difference.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.3  TᵢG  replied to  Sunshine @3.1.2    2 weeks ago

I suspect you will stubbornly stick with that no matter what anyone offers.   Note that you are claiming you see no difference between Biden and Harris.   That is either naivete or cynicism.   Either way, you are clearly wrong here.

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
3.1.4  Sunshine  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.3    2 weeks ago

Seems you are the one stuck to me.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.5  TᵢG  replied to  Sunshine @3.1.4    2 weeks ago

Pee Wee Herman.

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
3.1.6  Sunshine  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.5    2 weeks ago

Well he would be better than Biden or Harris.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.1.7  CB   replied to  Sunshine @3.1.6    2 weeks ago

Is Pee-Wee even in office somewheres or dreaming of running for the office?

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
3.1.8  Kathleen  replied to  Sunshine @3.1.6    2 weeks ago

jrSmiley_4_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2  CB   replied to  TᵢG @3    2 weeks ago
Trump managed to fuck up his chances for reelection because of his abysmal lack of character and his narcissism.

Emphatically.

A leader who is respectful of others and displays humbleness goes a long way with me. Also, one must stand for the good of humanity as a whole. How many times a day has any one of us told children to model good behaviors seen in other people: To not lie, cheat, or grasp onto and refuse to let go of what belongs to others from them?

But the children watch Donald J. Trump have a large following that roots for cutting society at its core and they call those adults, "phonies."

One thing I am not is a phony. I am what I am. Phony, ain't it. Donald J. Trump would not work for the good of humanity and that struck him out with me each and every time he mouthed or modeled the evil fool!

I listened time and time again to Trump's speeches with a open heart only to have him insult my intelligence with his rhetoric and actions. I could see the man was lacking in true humility from the start and lying about facts where attrition was called for only prove his malicious and felonious intent.

A  tryant-in-waiting disgusts me. Therefore, Donald J. Trump and his co-horts disgust me on a deep level.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @3    2 weeks ago
my reality is not clouded with thick partisan lenses

I disagree

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.3.1  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.3    2 weeks ago

Explain then.   Show me where my reality is distorted by partisanship.   Be specific.   Be clear.   Don't hide behind a smoke screen of vagueness.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.3.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @3.3.1    2 weeks ago
Biden was elected (IMO) because he was the only option other than Trump.   That is how bad Trump was. 

Post 3  Biden was elected (IMO) because he was the only option other than Trump.   That is how bad Trump was. 


What Trump did:

  1. Executive order enacted Jan. 1, 2021 requiring hospitals to provide medical prices to patients upfront so they can shop around.

2. Reversing the ascent of the Islamic extremist terrorist group ISIS.

3. “Most Favored Nation” executive order so that the U.S. (through Medicare) would pay no more for a drug than what’s offered to foreign countries, saving the U.S. an estimated “$85 billion in savings over seven years and $30 billion in out-of-pocket costs.”

4. Moving the U.S. embassy in Israel to the capital of Jerusalem.

5. Building more than 450 miles of new and replacement border wall.

6. Leading U.S. to a level of energy independence (exporting more oil than importing for the first time in 70 years), allowing international policy decisions to be made with less regard to how an oil nation we once relied on would respond.

7. No new wars.

8. Drastic reduction in regulations, opening the door for entrepreneurs and businesses to succeed, expand, and hire more people. According to the Trump administration, they promised to eliminate two regulations for every new one, but actually wound up eliminating 8 old regulations for every 1 new regulation adopted, equating into an extra $3,100 a year for the average American household.

9. Expanding Republican reach among African Americans and other constituents who traditionally lean Democrat.  

10. Cutting taxes in an initiative that benefitted every tax bracket.

11. Doubled the child tax credit.

12. Operation Warp Speed: accelerated development of coronavirus vaccines.

13. Eliminated the Obamacare penalty.

14. A series of trade agreements and changes seen as beneficial to Americans, including replacing NAFTA with USMCA.

15. Instead of 2-for-1, we eliminated 8 old regulations for every 1 new regulation adopted.

16. Provided the average American household an extra $3,100 every year.

17. Started the Space Force.

18. Instituted “Right to Try,” allowing terminally ill patients to use potentially lifesaving, unproven treatments.

19. Prioritized and made permanent funding for historically black colleges.

20. Brokered peace deals or normalization agreements between Israel and five Muslim and Arab-Muslim countries.

21. Banned the teaching of “Critical Race Theory” in the federal government.

22. Withdrew from Iran nuclear deal.

23. Withdrew from the Paris Climate Accord.

24. Instituted a Buy American policy within federal agencies.

25. Achieved a $400 billion increase in contributions by NATO allies by 2024 with the number of members meeting their minimum obligations doubling.


You are either in favor of that or you don't care about America.  It's that simple.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.3.3  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.3.2    2 weeks ago

So you presume that because I am critical of Trump's character (and associated actions) that I am against all of his policies.

That, Vic, is fucked up.   Your level of presumption is outrageous.   It suggests that you truly cannot see beyond a binary 'us' vs. 'them' to recognize that there are many individuals who will sometimes agree with D positions, sometimes agree with R positions and often times hold positions that do not come from either partisan extreme.

Next time wait for an individual to state a position before presuming they hold that position.

Note:  you did not provide quotes from me.  That should have been your first clue that you crossed the line.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.3.4  CB   replied to  Vic Eldred @3.3.2    2 weeks ago

For a a good work, and not all of those listed, are good in my opinion, I do not criticize Donald Trump's leadership. But, as you can surely tell by now, leadership is more than the sum of its policies - good, bad, indifferent.

 
 
 
MrFrost
PhD Principal
3.3.5  MrFrost  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.3.2    2 weeks ago
10. Cutting taxes in an initiative that benefitted every tax bracket.

Which caused an increase in the debt by 7.9 TRILLION in under 4 years. 

Most of your list is very VERY misleading. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.3.6  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.3.2    2 weeks ago
You are either in favor of that or you don't care about America.  It's that simple.

I have a thought.  [Deleted]

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
Professor Guide
3.3.7  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  JohnRussell @3.3.6    2 weeks ago

200w.gif?cid=ecf05e472i21tw24h5uifgmbrikllf9ib58zowqdwh4uphzj&rid=200w.gif&ct=g

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.3.8  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  MrFrost @3.3.5    2 weeks ago
Which caused an increase in the debt by 7.9 TRILLION in under 4 years.

There were two reasons for that. Remember what they were?

 
 
 
MrFrost
PhD Principal
3.3.9  MrFrost  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.3.8    2 weeks ago

There were two reasons for that. Remember what they were?

Well, can't be the economy, he was handed a growing, solid economy. He decreased income from the 1%er's and increased spending. In any household, in any family, that's a no-no. It never works. I am sure you have some alternate theory that blames everyone but trump, but at the end of the day, (as you would no doubt remind us), the buck stops with the guy at the top, and the tax cuts were his idea. 

The corporate tax rate dropped from 35% to 21%, that's a huge tax cut for big business and the wealthy, not the middle class. It was yet another attempt at trickle down which has failed over and over and over and over again. The cuts the middle class did see were so small, most didn't even notice them. 

Again, you cannot increase spending and decrease income and expect to pay off the debt in 6 years as trump said he would. He did the exact opposite and added just shy of 8 Trillion. I recall the right wing screaming that President Obama added 8 trillion over 8 years after he was handed a collapsed economy. But trump adds 8 in 4 years after he is handed and stable and growing economy? There is no justification for that at all. NONE. I won't even get into the deficit, which exploded under trumps failed presidency. 

512

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
3.3.10  Sparty On  replied to  MrFrost @3.3.9    2 weeks ago

Sorry Frosty.   That's just not a thorough analysis.

The National Debt went up about 95% in the Obama years.   Driven mainly by Bank Bailouts, Quantitative easing and the American Recovery Reinvestment Act in 2009 and 2010.

The National Debt under Trump went up about 40% and was drive almost exclusively by the Pandemic only.   Prior to 2020 it had gone up only about 15% in three plus years.   Regardless, a much lower rate of increase than Obama had.

One cab debate the cause and effect of all that but one can't debate those facts.

 
 
 
MrFrost
PhD Principal
3.3.11  MrFrost  replied to  Sparty On @3.3.10    2 weeks ago

Percentage isn't a great way of measuring the debt. For example. Under Reagan the debt increase by almost 300%, but he didn't come anywhere close to spending 8 or even 4 trillion dollars. Either way, trump added as much to the debt in 4 years as Obama did in 8 and he had ZERO justification to do so. That's the point. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
3.3.12  Sparty On  replied to  MrFrost @3.3.11    2 weeks ago

Lol .... zero justification?   COVID-19 was zero justification?  

Sorry, just can't take that comment serious.   Especially had COVID-19 not happened, we would be looking at a much different picture.   MUCH different.

As noted, the Pandemic was almost the ONLY cause of Trumps debt increase.   That much is clear as gin.

 
 
 
MrFrost
PhD Principal
3.3.13  MrFrost  replied to  Sparty On @3.3.12    2 weeks ago
COVID-19 was zero justification?  

That didn't even make the radar until what, a year before trump left office? And why did he do nothing about it? Again, it's on him, not covid. 

The testing nightmare, the lies, the golfing, the rallies, the lack of action, the downplaying it, etc etc etc... 

"It's just the flu"? Remember all that shit? 

512512

800

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
3.3.14  Sparty On  replied to  MrFrost @3.3.13    2 weeks ago
Again, it's on him, not covid

All on Trump?   Bullshit, there is plenty of blame to go around and most of it is firmly on China's shoulders but too many folks here in the US are to TDS afflicted to admit it.   Had the Chinese been more forthcoming, the reaction would have been totally different.   Remember this:

Jan 6th

Redfield offers help to China of an unknown virus, help is refused for weeks, depriving our CDC of critical time to study the problem and come up with appropriate responses

Jan 14th

China sticks to the script that there is no human to human contact.   Us officials treat this claim with skepticism when the first case outside of Chine is found in Thailand

Jan 18th

Trump was first briefed in detail by his health officials about this virus

Jan 21st

A Seattle man who just traveled from Wuhan tested positive for a Corona virus.   Chinese continue to push the no human to human transmission script.

Jan 22nd

Trump is asked a question about Corona virus at a presser and stated that things will be just fine, without having basically any good information at all.

Jan 23rd

China shuts down Wuhan and was still refusing to share ANY information

Jan 29th

The US Corona Virus task force is formed.   China still refuses access to any of their data and shuts down the entire Province Wuhan is in.

Jan 31st

The Trump admin bars any non US citizen from entering the US if they had been in Wuhan the previous two weeks but it was too late.   The virus was already spreading uncontrollably throughout the US and world.

So you blame only Trump and i blame mainly China for not being forthcoming at the beginning.   I'll tell you what is 100% on Trump though.  

All the Vaccines being put into people arms that Biden is taking credit for.

Joe always has been more than a little shameless in that regard.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.3.15  CB   replied to  MrFrost @3.3.13    2 weeks ago

It's always SUNNY AND HIGH NOON in Trumpland!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.3.16  CB   replied to  Sparty On @3.3.12    2 weeks ago

There is always SOMETHING that happens on a presidential WATCH. Once again, SARS-Covid 2 is a routine reminder to all that come; best prepare well. When the big sliding doors of presidential fate begin to grind close. . . get everybody to safety or feel that pinch!

 
 
 
MrFrost
PhD Principal
3.3.17  MrFrost  replied to  Sparty On @3.3.14    2 weeks ago

So it was China's fault that trump golfed and lied his way through the pandemic? 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
3.3.18  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  MrFrost @3.3.17    2 weeks ago

Sparty On forgot to mention a few items: 

July 2019 :   The Trump administration eliminates an American public health position designed to detect disease outbreaks in China. 

Late November-December 2019 : U.S. intelligence agencies warn of a “cataclysmic” and “out-of-control” disease in Wuhan, China. 

January 3, 2020 : Chinese colleagues alert the CDC Director about the virus, and he alerts Secretary Azar. 

January 9, 2020 : China publicly identifies new “pneumonia-like” virus. 

Chinese researchers publicly   identify   the pneumonia-like virus as a novel  coronavirus that is the cause of the pneumonia-like outbreak in Wuhan.

The same day : WHO issues guidance for other countries to detect and respond to the novel coronavirus. 

January 11: Chinese scientists publicly   release   the   genetic sequence   of COVID-19.

Around the third week of January : U.S. diplomats in Wuhan   return   to the United States on chartered planes.

AND MOST IMPORTANT....

January 18, 2020 : Alex Azar tries to speak to President Trump about the outbreak for the first time. President Trump ignores the warning. 

AND

President Trump admits in his own words as recorded on tape by Bob Woodward, that he intentionally delayed dealing with the virus because he didn't want people to panic. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
PhD Principal
3.3.19  MrFrost  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.3.18    2 weeks ago

President Trump admits in his own words as recorded on tape by Bob Woodward, that he intentionally delayed dealing with the virus because he didn't want people to panic. 

Indeed, they do seem to forget that.. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.3.20  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @3.3.12    2 weeks ago
Especially had COVID-19 not happened, we would be looking at a much different picture. 

On this we agree.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.3.21  CB   replied to  Sparty On @3.3.12    2 weeks ago

Big "if." Presidential 'watches' always come gift wrapped with happenings.'

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
3.3.22  Sparty On  replied to  MrFrost @3.3.17    2 weeks ago

Your TDS is showing again Frosty.

The pass China is getting on this topic from the left is egregious.   Extremely so.

Meanwhile the triggered continue their five plus year bitch about Trump ..... SOSDD

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
3.3.23  Sparty On  replied to  MrFrost @3.3.19    2 weeks ago

Interesting interpretation of what he said but considering the hate you hold in your heart towards Trump, not unexpected really.   Meanwhile the Chinese political information officers continue to spoon feed the willing their preferred narrative and many on the left are eating that shit with a spoon if it sheds a bad light on Trump.

China gets a pass and it's all Trumps fault .... got it. /S

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.3.24  CB   replied to  Sparty On @3.3.23    2 weeks ago

Your efforts at psychological warfare online are exposed. The issue here is that you can't criticize Donald J. Trump as a former president any more frequently than you did as sitting president. Donald and that "Kung fu grip" on his supporters is infamous. it makes your statements on this subject objectionable.

Perhaps, we can send you 'air cover' and a team of extractors. . . just indicate assent. . . if you can. .  .  .

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
3.3.25  Sparty On  replied to  CB @3.3.24    2 weeks ago

Yawn ........ smoke another doobie, eat another hot pocket .... there, isn't that better?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.3.26  CB   replied to  Sparty On @3.3.25    2 weeks ago

Trump-whipped. Wow. How can that be a thing?!  I can't prove it. . . but I know its true!  Thank you for deploying code word, "better."  Help is underway. . . .

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
3.3.27  Sparty On  replied to  CB @3.3.26    2 weeks ago

Hillary beat by Trump, how can this be?   Watch out hotel room ... Hillary is pissed, watch out flat screen TV, watch out Bubba .... here comes a cankle drop kick.

Will liberals every recover .... doubtful from empirical evidence..... TDS still bad .....it's BAD!   How true .... how true!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.3.28  CB   replied to  Sparty On @3.3.27    2 weeks ago

"Trump-whipped" Extreme. Lordy! Those Trump loyalty protocols are active and dangerous 'cob-webs.' We need to get help in right away. You won't be forced to type anymore after this. . . .  Freedom Progress is underway. Keep eyes open.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
3.3.29  Sparty On  replied to  CB @3.3.28    2 weeks ago

Watch out, watch out!   Yeah it is coming, it's just not what you think it is.   So pucker up snowflakes ..... 

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
3.3.30  Sparty On  replied to  CB @3.3.28    2 weeks ago

Oh and .... Rutabaga ...... muleskinner ....... arrrrrrrgggh ..... time to make the dounts .... woot!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.3.31  CB   replied to  Sparty On @3.3.30    2 weeks ago
Your efforts at psychological warfare online are exposed. The issue here is that you can't criticize Donald J. Trump as a former president any more frequently than you did as sitting president. Donald and that "Kung fu grip" on his supporters is infamous. it makes your statements on this subject objectionable.

What's to fear? Donald J. Trump is just another old man like other old men, you love to launch craved attacks against, who puts his pants on one leg at at time. Or, DOES he?!!!

 
 
 
Greg Jones
PhD Expert
3.4  Greg Jones  replied to  TᵢG @3    2 weeks ago
TiG wrote: "Biden was elected (IMO) because he was the only option other than Trump."

And not because the voters were particularly fond of Biden and his agenda.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
3.4.1  Kathleen  replied to  Greg Jones @3.4    2 weeks ago

Right.  There you go.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.4.2  TᵢG  replied to  Greg Jones @3.4    2 weeks ago

Yes, it was obvious from the primaries and from earlier runs that Biden was far from the dream candidate of the D party.   IMO he became the nominee largely because he was the one who emerged with momentum and thus caused the D party to see him as the best chance to defeat Trump.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
4  Kathleen    2 weeks ago

I haven’t told anyone on here who they should vote for. I really don’t care to be honest, I think that some of you shouldn’t be doing it either. We all have our reasons, why can’t we just respect that?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.1  CB   replied to  Kathleen @4    2 weeks ago

We're here spending 'quality' time because we care about each other and matters of the heart, Kathleen. We all should just want to get along. . . but, what becomes our purpose for assembling together to do 'hugs' and 'parties' while society caves in on our realities? It is to make society better through virtual discussion in some large, okay small-ish fashion or other, through our efforts to talk it out.

If you are suggesting that it's hard to talk about complex matters in comments and that it takes an inordinate amount of any one individual's time and energy to chance a heart or mind - you are partially correct. On the other-hand, hearts and minds, even my own, can be reached and has been done so by individuals I have never met (including yourself). So, we continue in our efforts, and yes our "struggles" too.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
4.1.1  Kathleen  replied to  CB @4.1    2 weeks ago

I am not sure what you are trying to say CB. My comment was about letting everybody have the freedom to choose who they want without persecution. 

I do spend more time on here then I should, and I get tired at times, I do try to make an effort to reply to the people that respond to me. Yes, I agree that there is so much more to the people on here then being in this site. I do wish some would realize that though...

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.1.2  CB   replied to  Kathleen @4.1.1    2 weeks ago

We have to matter to one another. Talking pass one another and 'harming' one another in the real world is not okay.

I matter. You matter. We matter. They matter.

Our political class can do better and eventually if we are to survive as a country must do better as a whole. These 'fall-outs' are doing a disservice to our citizenry. We are an aging citizenry. Do we realize that since 9/11/2001 we have been in deep political 'free-fall' (and I am just arbitrarily picking a starting point) and some of us have been disliking "do-nothing congresses" and questioning our elected leaders reasons for being around the clock?

Why do we have leaders? We do not respect the man or woman who leads us. We criticize our presidents, right or wrong, twenty-four/seven plus! The plus being on radio and cable news. Mostly these criticism serve to make careers and large profits for opinion writers, book writers, and 'newsy' entertainers.

So what am I saying? It is hard to lead a complex people made up of diverse groups and organizations. It's hard to lead a people borne and given over to a constitution. It's hard to lead a rule of law people. And you know what? It is the hardest of all to lead a people that have become sophisticated (worldly) enough to expertly manipulate their freedoms at will. Finally, it is hard to lead a people that won't budge at the political and mechanical junctures where progress gives way.

We need to help each other be better, while we are together. Be better while we are together. It's the (one) chance we have to talk to one side or the other of our nation and even our world!

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
4.2  Sunshine  replied to  Kathleen @4    2 weeks ago
I think that some of you shouldn’t be doing it either. 

nicely said Kathleen

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.2.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sunshine @4.2    2 weeks ago

I'll second that!

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
5  Kathleen    2 weeks ago

Would someone please tell me what Pee Wee Herman has to do with all this? Someone else mentioned that to me....

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.1  TᵢG  replied to  Kathleen @5    2 weeks ago

'Pee Wee Herman' refers to a style of argument or retort.   Pee Wee Herman retorts are the epitome of lame ... they basically were parodies of the primitive retorts conceived by children.   They are the lowest and witless level of retort.  

For example:  'I know you are but what am I?'.    This is one pattern of witless retort that can take many forms.   An example of this that is used even on this forum is to simply repeat what one person wrote but substitute words.   So if someone were to be critical of the R party a Pee Wee Herman style retort would be to change it to the same criticism of the D party.   No wit, no thinking, just mindless, childish execution of a pattern. 

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
5.1.1  Kathleen  replied to  TᵢG @5.1    2 weeks ago

I see.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.1.2  CB   replied to  TᵢG @5.1    2 weeks ago

Masterclass!

(Not to cause confusion, but another form of the method is: Russian-style popularized: Whataboutism. As in: "S/he did it too!")

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
5.2  Sunshine  replied to  Kathleen @5    2 weeks ago