New York mayor says subway safe after woman shoved in front of train
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
New York Mayor Eric Adams (D) on Sunday assured New Yorkers that the city's subway system is safe to use after a woman died when she was pushed in front of an incoming train.
“New Yorkers are safe on the subway system. I think it’s about 1.7 percent of the crimes in New York City that occur on the subway system," Adams said during a press briefing, according to The Telegraph .
“Think about that for a moment,” he said. “What we must do is remove the perception of fear."
“When you see homeless individuals with mental health issues not being attended to and given the proper services, that adds to the perception of fear,” said Adams.
The Telegraph noted that the mayor's remarks drew criticisms from New Yorkers who said he is dismissing genuine concerns stemming from physical attacks on the subway.
On Saturday, Michelle Alyssa Go was killed after being pushed onto the tracks by Simon Martial, a 61-year-old homeless man. Martial turned himself into authorities and has been charged with Go's slaying.
Shouting at reporters outside a police station, Martial admitted to shoving Go and appeared to have no remorse for his actions.
As local New York CBS-affiliate WCBS reported , police Commissioner Keechant Sewell called Go's death an "absolutely senseless act of violence.”
“This incident was unprovoked, and the victim does not appear to have had any interaction with the subject,” said Sewell.
A subway rider named Brandon Lewis told the news station that the incident made him feel "less safe."
"It’s a sign to me that the city is starting to fray,” he said.
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Yes, the city is starting to "fray."
It seems that every election the same people choose the democrat. What's that they say about insanity and doing the same thing over & over again?
Yes-- New York City is heavily Democratic.
So almost every election they vote for-- Democrats!
Shocking, isn't it?
/sarc
Although I dont currently, I used to ride the subway in Chicago all the time. Dont stand near the edge of the platform while you are waiting for the train. Dont stand close enough to the edge where someone can push you on to the tracks. This is simple and easy to do and will keep you safe. When the train starts to pull into the station there will be plenty of time to move toward the doors and get on.
Does the left ever get tired of blaming the victim? Seriously.
If this nut job wouldn't have been on the streets she would still be alive, period. This isn't even a one off event.
The idiot had priors of course; and put another Asian woman in fear for her life before pushing the victim to her death.
Not enough police, too many homeless people with mental illnesses, and DA's that don't prosecute shit unless the perp is white. SSDD in the liberal bastion of stupidity.
Of course this wasn't a hate crime. Hate crimes never occur in Democrat run cities- unless the perp is white that is.
Mental illness is not a crime.
Who is blaming the victim? I have been on the subway hundreds of times. Dont wait for the train on the edge of the platform and no one will be able to push you onto the tracks. Or you wont fall onto the tracks. Im not "blaming" the lady, she obviously didnt have that thought in mind.
Even if there were a propensity for a Chinese person to push another onto the tracks from a subway platform, it's not possible to do so in China.
Good point!
Which raises an interesting question-- how come there are so many nut jobs on the street in Democratic cities-- but never any nut jobs on the street in Republican cities?
(Pretty amazing, eh?)
/sarc 2)
Correct!
(After all if it was, Trump
and his evil cohorts would all be in jail by now!)
So what would you have us do-- execute them?
Nor is it possible for the insane to roam the streets in China!
I'm not sure whether you're making a point or indirectly asking a question. People don't live on the streets in China. Abject poverty has been eradicated, even in remote villages - and I assume abject poverty would be a cause of insanity.
Lol. If you make 2 dollars a day in China, you are above the "poverty line."
It's like claiming there's no abject poverty in Ethiopia
China is not like the USA, which is something you wouldn't know because you've never lived there (although your postings indicate that you consider yourself qualified to provide opinions about it). There is a family and social cohesiveness in China, where it is not at all unusual for at least three generations to live together and support each other. So if a person is only capable of earning $2 a day he will still have a roof over his head and food on the table because his FAMILY are not poor. How many times have I pointed out already that Chinese people are much more concerned about the good of the community and the common good of their family than they are about "individual rights and personal freedoms". Not only have I learned this, but I live it, and gladly. Just as you ignored the listed reasons why I thought the numbers of Chinese covid virus deaths were not that far off what is published, I'm sure you'll ignore what I know to be true as well. However, I'm sure the American politicians and media will concoct as many ugly stories as possible in order to demonize and contain China, and they will be the sources that guide you.
Drug addiction and loitering and crime is not allowed in China either.
Yes I am making a point. They protect their people. Regardless of ideology, protecting citizens is the first duty of government!
Yes, illicit drugs are not a problem here. Drug dealiers are dealt with very harshly - they are lucky if the sentence is life in prison, because a bullet in the back of the head is more common. Originally I was warned about pickpockets, but I never knew of an incident during all my years here.
You're right. the government considers the welfare of the people most important. That is why the eradication of abject poverty was a number one priority, and it was accomplished, in fact even a bit earlier than scheduled..
Yep, that's how they resolved the rampant snuff problem in china way back in the last century (1800's) If you were caught with drugs in your possession, you were killed instantly, possession of it was all the proof needed...
Cleared up the criminal drug problem rather quickly and efficiently... Try to get something like that passed here...
Although it is a horrible and sad thing, the idea that a random bizarre murder means the city of New York is falling apart is silly. These things are rare and stem from mental illness. A sane person would never commit this act.
And why are the mentally ill out on the street?
Because you cannot legally lock them up unless someone states that they are a danger to themselves or others. Even then, in 7 to 21 days these people are usually back in the public sphere. The treatment of mental illness in the United States sucks. There are not enough hospitals or long term care facilities with the ability and space to care for the numbers of people with mental illness. Plus, in the winter, spaces in these facilities become more rare for whatever reason.
Pray that you or a loved one never needs help in this area, because it is rare and (also) difficult to get competent and ongoing help.
Parenthetical text added to make meaning more clear.
What about public safety? Wasn't that the argument Joe Biden made for vaccine mandates?
Pray that you or a loved one never needs
Pray that you or a loved one never needs to use public transportation.
What about it? There are laws that govern the people of this country, and rights ascribed to those people by virtue of being human. Which of those rights would you like to circumscribe or truncate?
Vaccine mandates have a long history. It is quite unfortunate that politics needs (or even should want) to enter a conversation about health. This is the twisted dystopian world that some people live in. Reminds me of that "I know my rights!" guy. Your fearless leader would be pleased./s
Why? Do you know how many people use public transportation every day? (In NYC it is about 2 million a day) Do you know how many of them are injured or killed? Here is a link to the BTS on the numbers of traffic fatalities broken out by mode of transport. From these data it would look to be a far more dangerous thing to get into ones car and drive than to utilize public transportation. Here are some more data to ponder on. Especially these (From the link):
For those who bother with logical argumentation, Vic would like us to think that because the NYC mayor is a Democrat that this somehow caused a man in need of psychiatric medication to push a woman into the path of a subway. This is known as a non-sequitur logical fallacy. You can't logically get from one to the other, but if it passes one by without careful reading, it might get through to the reader as, "Yes! Something is wrong with the Mayor of New York," rather than , "Yes, something is wrong with the state of the mental health system in the USA," which is a more logical way to look at things, especially if one has a more than passing interest in mental health and healthcare.
It would be far more disturbing if there were someone who was killing people on the subway and the police couldn't catch them, rather than the perpetrator turning himself in. So, if you are going to get mad at anything, Vic, get mad at the culture of American society that says "stuff" is worth more than a human life. That, my friend, is the atrocity.
The rights extended to the insane. They cannot be left on the streets to kill and maim.
Vaccine mandates have a long history. It is quite unfortunate that politics needs (or even should want) to enter a conversation about health.
The Constitution entered into and btw I was for the mandates. The argument is the same: PUBLIC SAFETY!
Why? Do you know how many people use public transportation every day? (In NYC it is about 2 million a day) Do you know how many of them are injured or killed?
Just do a little thinking. Aside from the assaults and killings that make the news, how much goes on without being reported. You have loitering, vandalism, defecation, drug deals, minor assaults and how about accosting people for money? All of that because progressives don't want to put people in institutions.
Define "Insane."
Is it all people who have a mental illness? Are we supposed to lock them all up? What about those that are treatable by medication? What about those that are cyclic in their behavior patterns? Stochastic? Where exactly do we draw the line?
The problem that we have in this country regarding mental health is not reactionary/progressive, it is that very few people have the will, fortitude or desire to address these issues in a meaningful manner. They would rather just call somebody insane than delve into why. It is much easier to do. "Insane! Dismissed!" they will say, and then the issue is forgotten. Except that it is not forgotten by the individuals so labeled.
Contact drops off.
Friends drift away.
They find themselves increasingly marginalized, even when there are people there who wish to help them.
There is mental illness across the country in all locations, but it is most noticeable in the cities because there is nowhere to go. The reasons that people live beneath bridges and in cardboard shelters are many, but one of the largest contributing factors is that we, as a society, do not want to deal with them.
Locking them all up is not the answer.
I think you kind of answered your own question. If we can treat people with minor mental disorders we should and we should monitor them. Those who could present a danger to society like this guy obviously did, belong in an institution.
The problem that we have in this country regarding mental health is not reactionary/progressive, it is that very few people have the will, fortitude or desire to address these issues in a meaningful manner. They would rather just call somebody insane than delve into why. It is much easier to do. "Insane! Dismissed!" they will say, and then the issue is forgotten. Except that it is not forgotten by the individuals so labeled.
Contact drops off.
Friends drift away.
They find themselves increasingly marginalized, even when there are people there who wish to help them.
Oh that's sad. There is only one thing worse.....the government not fulfilling it's primary obligation of keeping it's citizens safe.
There is mental illness across the country in all locations, but it is most noticeable in the cities because there is nowhere to go. The reasons that people live beneath bridges and in cardboard shelters are many, but one of the largest contributing factors is that we, as a society, do not want to deal with them.
Locking them all up is not the answer.
Right now putting them in an institution is the answer.
Vic,
As someone who has been dealing with mentally ill family members, let me explain how and why were are where we are.
Before we gave patients a bill of rights, any family member could claim that someone belonged in a mental institution and they were committed whether or not they needed it. Once in, it was very hard to come out, and once in, they were often abused by the staff, and treatments were administered without family consent.
Now, in order for patients to be committed, they have to be shown to be a danger to themselves or to others. Of course, this is not always obvious, since human beings are hard to predict, and also, they are released once the doctors feel that they are stabilized. But being stabilized also means that they are med compliant and that they have a stable home environment, and this is where we have an issue. If someone is homeless, they are less likely to be med compliant. So we have two issues. One of homelessness and the other of no room in our mental facilities.
Now obviously in the case of this man, he should have been institutionalized, but our institutions are overwhelmed with cases and have little funding, so it has become a revolving door of the mentally ill going in and going out, once stabilized.
To solve this needs money, which is something that many are against.
Thanks for providing the truth and the facts and sense to this Thomas.
Unreal how the mentally are being smeared here.
That's not true. Vic needs to show us where he said he's for the mandates. Proof is required.
Because we need evidence of a crime to process them through the justice system. I wish we could lock up the crazy right wing conservative Qanon conspiracy theorists before they shoot their kids with a spear gun, but you have to have some evidence to prove they are a danger to themselves and others. You would think perhaps their crazy ranting about the supposed "deep state" or lizard people or Democrat child sex rings or eating babies would be enough to at least put these folk under surveillance but you get other angry right wing conservatives who defend and deflect for these crazy dangerous right wing conspiracy theorists. With half the country defending them we'll never really be rid of the danger the mentally ill pose.
"Father Claims QAnon Conspiracy Led Him To Kill His 2 Children , FBI Says"
" A vast number of the criminal QAnon believers— 61%—have mental health issues, while 43% were radicalized following a traumatic event, such as premature death of a loved one, or physical, emotional or sexual abuse."
"As of Wednesday, QAnon adherents have committed 79 ideologically motivated crimes across the United States "
"a survey conducted by Citizen Data found that 62 percent of conservatives believe in at least one core conspiracy theory born from the (Qanon) movement."
Not I. That's where a lot of the American Rescue Act's money should have gone.
Let's keep Rockaway Blvd and the Hempstead Turnpike safe.
I hope in your quest to make Rockaway Blvd and Hempstead Turnpike "Great Again"- you don't succeed in making that happen the way the Great Donald Trump ""Made America Great Again"!
So what would you have us do?
Execute them?
(Or as an alledged "Conservative"-- would you have us build more shelters for them ?)
And thanks to Covid.
We recently had a man who was supposed to go to a mental facility be released because the facility couldn't take any more patients because of Covid - too many sick staff members. He was held in jail, but that's only legal for a few days. On release, he got in his car and got on the interstate going the wrong way. Killed himself and severely injured somebody else, and it's fortunate that it wasn't much worse than that, as it's a heavily traveled road.
Two things are desperately needed:
1) More institutions, especially for the criminally insane and 2) the state of Virginia needs to learn how to treat roads in the winter.
Agreed on the need for more facilities. The road conditions weren't an issue, and two days after a snow/ice storm, our roads were clear.
Really? Ask Tim Kaine and those who were stranded overnight.
Ask the late 'great' Ronald Reagan. He repealed a bill to expand mental health programs. That exasperated the issue of dumping the mentally ill on the streets all over the country and put us even further behind.
How about the ACLU who filed a lawsuit for extending "rights" to the criminally insane?
How about them Vic?
Post a seed and link the filing if you want to discuss that. I'll wait.
Let's go to the horse's mouth (or ass depending on your point of view) and use the ACLU's own website:
https://www.aclu.org/other/aclu-history-mental-institutions#:~:text=The%20ACLU%27s%20most%20important%20Supreme%20Court%20case%20involving,not%20dangerous%20and%20had%20received%20no%20medical%20treatment.
Overnight, in an area that seldom gets that much snow and would be wasting money to invest in lots of snowplow or salt trucks.
Kaine was stuck on I-95, this was on I-81. That storm hit I-95 like usually I-81 gets hit where snow response is better
We need better roads and more mental health places. I read our Sheriff got 4 new positions to help with mental cases
Remember Sandy, the climate is changing, right?
People in MA couldn't believe those pictures.
As far as the institutions go - we need them back!
Good. Our neighbor at the office has some mental health issues that are sometimes severe (danger to himself), and I imagine would be better served by someone with training in mental health crises.
And people in Virginia were surprised, too, as that area rarely gets snow to speak of.
Where charger and I live, near a ski resort, we expect and can handle snow.
And yes, we need mental institutions back, but without the unsavory practices of days past.
It's all a matter of resources. Snow removal, mental health facilities - both need funding.
For those who want to make sense of your post, here is the statement:
Spearheaded by the New York Civil Liberties Union's (NYCLU) Mental Patients' Rights Project, the shuttered world of people confined because of mental illness and developmental disabilities was one of the next major enclaves targeted for legal action. Bruce Ennis, Director of the Project, was a prime participant in several landmark cases that became the highpoint of the civil rights movement for people with mental disabilities. In Wyatt v. Stickney (1972) and Wyatt v. Aderholt (1974), Ennis challenged the conditions of hospitalization for those with mental illness and developmental disabilities, leading to significant reductions in the institutions' populations; major increases in expenditures for mental health and rehabilitative services; improvement in psychologist-patient ratios; significant reductions in the abuse of patients; and the adoption of the then-innovative concept of specific treatment and rehabilitation plans for each individual. The principles argued for by Ennis, and included in the judge's final order, were subsequently adopted by 35 other states. Another significant result of the Wyatt litigation was the formation of the Mental Health Law Project (MHLP), now the Bazelon Center in Washington, DC.
Ennis' most sensational case while at the NYCLU began with a class-action lawsuit filed in 1972 on behalf of the 5,400 residents of the Willowbrook State School for mentally disabled children in Staten Island. At the time Willowbrook was the biggest state run institution of its kind in the United States. Filthy conditions and questionable medical practices and experiments prompted Senator Robert Kennedy to call it a 'snake pit.' Public outrage grew after broadcast journalist Geraldo Rivera exposed the abhorrent conditions in a video showing developmentally disabled children lying naked on the floor, many of them in their own feces.
The three-year-long legal battle against Willowbrook culminated in a 1975 consent decree mandating significant reforms; but it took years of tenacious litigation and advocacy to force officials to improve conditions and supply the funds necessary for reform. Historians David and Sheila Rothman subsequently published a detailed account of this process in their widely-read The Willowbrook Wars . In 1983, the state of New York announced plans to close Willowbrook, and the last children left the grounds in 1987. The nationwide publicity generated by the Willowbrook case helped contribute to passage of the Civil Rights of Institutionalized Persons Act of 1980.
The ACLU's most important Supreme Court case involving the rights of people with mental illness was filed on behalf of Kenneth Donaldson, who had been involuntarily confined in a Florida State Hospital for 15 years. He was not dangerous and had received no medical treatment. In a landmark decision for mental health law in 1975, a unanimous Supreme Court ruled that states cannot confine a non-dangerous individual who can survive on his own, or with help from family and friends.
Here's a WORKING link:
ACLU History: Mental Institutions | American Civil Liberties Union
So Vic, please copy and paste the part of the above statement that has your panties in a wad.
I must note that there isn't a fucking word about the criminally insane. So it would also help if you could make that connection too...
I'll wait...
And what is even scarier in America, is that it is so easy for them to get and have guns.
My point is that this is a case where individual rights conflicts with public safety. I say public safety comes first. Others may disagree, but if they are in favor of vaccine mandates, yet somehow favor the rights of the mentally ill to roam the streets, they are hypocrites.
Very good and now you have a decent Governor as well. Good luck.
How about we make it illegal for anyone diagnosed with and prescribed medications for any mental illnesses to possess guns?
That makes a lot of sense, butt I will bet that if you think about it you are strongly opposed considering that would eliminate about half of gun owners who take antidepressants and anxiety medications. So, how about it?
Not so sure about that governor. As Covid cases soar, he's reversed the mask mandate in our schools.
Does it really? You'll lock people up for others' safety, but won't have them mask during a pandemic? Your opinion regarding public safety doesn't seem to mesh with the reality of your political heroes' actions.
“he's reversed the mask mandate in our schools.”
And i bet you won’t notice much of a difference. States that have been little dictators about masks have fared about the same as states that have been lax about them.
“You'll lock people up for others' safety, but won't have them mask during a pandemic?”
really? You’re going to compare catching covid and having a better than 99% chance of being ok to coming across a thug with murder on his mind?
The CDC found that schools in Georgia who required staff to mask saw a 39% reduction in cases over those that didn't. Having students mask led to a 21% greater reduction in transmission. Vic knows this, because he tried citing the study elsewhere to show that masks don't work, when the study showed that they obviously do.
So maybe we won't notice a difference, but it's entirely possible that we will, too. We already have a shortage of teachers because so many are sick with Covid, and I keep getting a call that my son's bus (it's an auto-call, because he drives) will be late, because the driver is sick and another driver is doubling up to cover his route. Substitute teachers, who are generally retired teachers, have been pretty much unavailable since we went back to in-person learning.
And really? You're going to disregard that Vic is ok with locking people up but not with having them wear masks, for public safety? Which one interferes with freedom more, Gazoo?
If your point is about this individual case, why do you conflate the rights of ALL mentally ill people Vic?
You can't have it both ways.
BTFW, you should at least acknowledge that your attempt to scapegoat the ACLU was an utter failure.
Well, I hope that the positions are to be filled with people with specific training relating to mental health needs and not just 4 more police officers.
Agreed.
I have to say that the county in which charger and I live is pretty good for demanding that police try to deescalate situations, and mental health crises pretty much always involve EMS as well as police. TBH, I would like to see social workers collaborate with police here. I think there are times, as in the case of my neighbor, when a social worker would be more helpful to someone whose mental health endangers his own life (not others'), and police resources would be better dedicated to other issues. The sheriff's department does daily welfare checks for the elderly and ill, which is a good service, but seems to me a better fit for social services.
He campaigned on it. A few of your school boards are trying to defy him.
Does it really?
Yup, I'm with Biden on that one.
You'll lock people up for others' safety, but won't have them mask during a pandemic?
I wear a mask. I'm in favor of masks that work.
Your opinion regarding public safety doesn't seem to mesh with the reality of your political heroes' actions.
And your opinion is an extreme contradiction. You can't be in favor of mandates and be against the police.
I don't see any contradiction there. Public safety over the right to roam aimlessly by the mentally ill.
BTFW, you should at least acknowledge that your attempt to scapegoat the ACLU was an utter failure.
It was they who instigated for the rights of the mentally ill. Most notable was the case of Kenneth Donaldson.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Connor_v._Donaldson#:~:text=Kenneth%20Donaldson%20%28confined%20patient%29%20had%20been%20held%20for,constitutional%20rights%2C%20by%20confining%20him%20against%20his%20will.
Under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d), it is unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person “has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution.”
The social workers still want the cops to go with them.
Quote me saying I'm "against the police".
That would depend on the details of the case. We have deputies doing welfare checks for the elderly, just because they're elderly - no mental illness at all. This would be better done by social workers, and no police officers need to be involved. That frees LEOs up to do public safety, and has the elderly being checked on by those in a position to connect them to resources they might need - Meals on Wheels, transportation, in-home nursing or housekeeping assistance, etc. That's not really the sheriff's office's area of expertise.
Correct me - Do you support the police?
We were only talking about the mentally ill. Social workers want the protection. You aren't saving money nor are you freeing up the cops.
That's conveniently obtuse.
'The mentally ill' is an all-encompassing label for a large group of people in the US Vic.
You should review the arguments made by gun rights advocates who insist on adjudicating each case INDIVIDUALLY.
Vic, this is your comment that started this discussion on the ACLU:
I shot down your ACLU link that you try to pretend supports your false allegation, yet you persist.
BTW, why have you suddenly become incapable of posting a functioning link?
The first paragraph from O'Connor v. Donaldson - Wikipedia
So, I have proven that BOTH of your links fail to support your allegation Vic.
Continuing to attempt to gaslight members here is reprehensible.
You and yours, much to your chagrin, know damn well that I actually READ the links y'all post and that I do my own research that refutes your posits.
Now, it would behoove you to refrain from insulting my intelligence in the future.
That doesn't answer the question Vic.
Being diagnosed with a mental illness and being adjudicated as a mental defective are two different things.
You didn't. [deleted]
And he doesn't answer to you so there is that............................
It's so tiresome how certain members just follow me around from post to post.
I don't see what is insensitive or incomprehensible about saying that I believe public safety trumps the rights of the mentally ill.
'The mentally ill' is an all-encompassing label for a large group of people in the US Vic.
Some of which need to be institutionalized.
You should review the arguments made by gun rights advocates who insist on adjudicating each case INDIVIDUALLY.
You lost me. Please explain.
So, I have proven that BOTH of your links fail to support your allegation Vic.
I beg to disagree. Was the ACLU the instigator in extending rights to the mentally ill?
As is being declared a danger to society.
That is true.
So what was the diagnosis with Simon Martial? Should he have been on the street, homeless?
Since you are the first to mention it, WTF is your point?
You're deflecting Vic.
Answer the question.
The same as it was when I posted the seed: Government's primary duty is to protect it's citizens.
What question? That being diagnosed with a mental illness and at some point - finally being adjudicated as a mental defective are two different things?
Didn't I answer in post 3.1.56?
In other words, you don't rely on a diagnosis. You prefer to wait for adjudication.
Not surprising since you don't see any contradiction either.
So only some now. Progress...
Take some time and think about it Vic. You'll get there.
Vic, I quoted your claim. Here, I'll do it AGAIN:
The CRIMINALLY INSANE Vic.
Now you want to pretend that you never said that. Now you want to pretend that your argument against the ACLU is all about the mentally ill. That is utter bullshit. Just stop.
Secondly, your seed is about a mentally ill person with schizophrenia. Over 3 MILLION people in the US have been diagnosed with schizophrenia. There are less than 40,000 mental health beds in the US.
Is it your posit that ALL schizophrenics be institutionalized Vic?
Really? Then WHY is it that you decry the Government for refusing to release the Jan. 6 defendants that have been found to be a 'danger to society' Vic?
This question Vic:
NO. That wasn't a question.
NO again.
It's not about what you or I prefer Vic, it's about the Constitution and due process.
I did say that. I think you underestimated the ACLU. They certainly contributed, as did John Kennedy, a Supreme Court opinion, civil liberty concerns over forced treatment and eventually even the great Ronald Reagan in extending rights to the criminally insane. YES THEY DID!
Is it your posit that ALL schizophrenics be institutionalized Vic?
No, BUT THIS ONE SHOULD HAVE BEEN!
Is that what I decried the government for? If you recall, my complaint was holding people for a year without a trial.
If you are trying to make a case that those people were mentally ill or a danger to society, that may be a different argument.
And some mentally ill aren't a danger to others. Some aren't even an immediate danger to themselves. Some might just not leave their homes or answer their phones, and need somebody to check in on them.
Regardless, you ARE able to see that we have police officers doing things better left to social workers, yes?
That's laughable. A medical diagnosis should determine who is a danger for society. Adjudication (a judicial decision) only comes after something happens/someone is injured or killed.
So, can't honestly quote me saying otherwise, eh? Stop putting words in others' mouths, and you won't get caught out like that.
I don't even want police endangered by having to deal with those who are a danger to society. I want a diagnosis and if people are a danger, I want them locked up.
Don't look now but you just made my point. Sometimes avoiding an answer is just like providing one.
Stop putting words in others' mouths
They are all following your lead.
Then you can provide a quote, right?
No?
I've always supported the police when they've done their jobs well. I don't support bad cops.
It's quite laughable to be falsely accused of not supporting the police by someone who's tried to make a martyr of a woman who was part of an insurrectionist mob that was attacking police.
Sandy, you did not make Vic's point.
You are not the one who puts words in other people's mouths.
See how easy it was and you made sure to qualify that answer.
It's quite laughable to be falsely accused of not supporting the police by someone who's tried to make a martyr of a woman who was part of an insurrectionist mob that was attacking police.
She didn't attack anyone. She was killed by a bad cop.
I know I'm not. Thanks for helping call attention to the dishonest tactics some use.
I shouldn't have to defend myself against lies, Vic.
And we can all see when support for the police drops off when they're standing up against the criminal elements among one's own political allies.
There it is! It's clear where you and others get it from.
A long, long time ago, in the early days of television, there was a comedy show called "Burns & Allen." Most of the plots involved Gracie Allen trying to hide things from George Burns. The unique element of that show was that there was a tv in an upstairs room of the house that showed George Burns everything that was going on in the house. He was always ahead in the game. Around here I'm like George Burns.
There are many things you shouldn't be doing.
What a silly comment. You got caught, again, claiming somebody said something they didn't say. If you don't like getting called out for it, stop doing it. I won't stop calling it out.
We know the truth.
Not to be found here.
Unless and until you post something that actually supports your claim, all you're doing is spewing bullshit ad nauseam Vic.
Well at least you've evolved to 'some' and 'one'. There's that.
No, I don't recall that because it isn't true.
You never complained about holding 'people' in general pre-trial Vic. Just the special snowflakes from the Jan. 6 insurrection.
The DOJ made the case that they are a 'danger to society', which is why a VERY small number are being held pre-trial.
It's a FACT Vic.
First of all, a VERY small minority of mentally ill people are a danger to ANYONE.
Secondly, there are MANY ways that a person can be adjudicated to be a danger to society WITHOUT a medical diagnosis.
That is false. Get educated. In fact, READ a relevant statute from your own state:
H4670.pdf
The petitioner and the Judge need only agree that the person would cause bodily harm to themselves or others to confiscate their firearms. NO medical diagnosis is required.
Let me refresh your memory. It was on the night of November 21st, the event was the Waukesha Christmas Parade. I posted an article on it moments after it happened. I called it a hate crime. The media all but buried it within a week. It wasn't what you said - it was what you voted up and I called you out at the time.
And one of them is to actually injure or kill someone. I prefer not to wait for that.
The petitioner and the Judge need only agree that the person would cause bodily harm to themselves or others to confiscate their firearms.
OMG! How did firearms get into this?
And it wasn't a hate crime, Vic. You were wrong.
You put words in my mouth again, and you got called out on it. Stop doing it, and I'll stop calling it out.
How revelatory Vic.
Are you trying to pretend that you are unaware of controversy about the practice of revoking the 'gun rights' of people because of they are a danger to themselves/other or been adjudicated mentally ill?
If so, you'd be one of the few here on NT who are.
There has been much hand wringing and media ink about vets with PTSD being subject to those statutes.
So we're about where you usually bail so I'll take the opportunity to say that your comments seem to support the concept of denying those with mental illness due process.
I hope I have made it clear that I disagree with you wholeheartedly.
Even murderers deserve due process.
Who says it wasn't? Joe Biden? The media? I say it was.
You jumped to an incorrect conclusion based on what you wanted it to be.
I got it right. The left will never call it what it was and they are in power. Remember what Eric Holder told us - it can't be a hate crime if the victims are white!
No, he didn't.
No, you made up a definition to suit yourself and ran with it.
I called it for what it was.
There is no need to fear the facts.
You don't get to make up your own facts.
And you don't get to make facts disappear!
At least you were honest enough not to deny you were making up your own facts.
That's progress.
I posted my facts with links
When you called the Waukesha parade attack a hate crime, that was a made-up "fact" on your part.
It's a fact that you, just like Joe Biden and Merrick Garland don't like to hear.
Thus the censorship.
Not a fact.
Either you don't know what a hate crime is, or you decided to classify the attack as a hate crime in opposition to reality for the sake of consistency. Reality isn't consistent with the blatant racial bigotry displayed in your comments.
Bingo.
"We need better roads"
Then why do the alleged conservatives/republicans/gop and DINOs Sinema and Manchin refuse to support Build Back Better?
Because BBB has little to nothing to do with roads. That was covered in the real infrastructure bill already passed previously.
Just trying to help.
Why are you telling yourself to follow someone else around? Strange. Oh I see. "The Game".
Not following you. Just saw the question on the front page and thought I would answer. And now you know that BBB has nothing to do with the roads so you won't make that mistake again. Just trying to help
What isn't mentioned is that the victim, Michelle Alyssa Go, was very obviously Asian . Think about that.
That detail would only be important if the insane murderer was wearing a MAGA hat.
I was expecting a couple of responses to say he was from a minority himself.
As any good lawyer should know, you don't ask a question if you are not sure what the answer will be.
I'm sure you didn't expect that answer.
(BTW, Do you know why I chose that picture for the article? I know that station, it leads to Aqueduct)
There goes "put-words-in-mouth" again. Please point out any question that I asked in my comments on this seed. I'm not surprised by your reply which IMO was entirely irrelevant anyway, what I'm surprised about is that I didn't draw the "minority vs minority" comments I got previously when I had commented elsewhere about a similar issue.
This was why I posted the comment that I did.
I'd think twice before I'd sign up with them.
LOL. I don't "sign up" with or belong to any organization. I resigned from the last one I belonged to almost 20 years ago when I retired, so I no longer needed to belong. Membership in The Law Society of Upper Canada was necessary to practise law in Ontario, but it also required payment of annual fees and insurance premiums that would have taken a big chunk out of my pension.
Are you by any chance trying to imply that Buzz is not a good lawyer?
(Curious minds want to know!!!)
I assume he was a good one.
What isn't mentioned is that the victim, Michelle Alyssa Go, was very obviously Asian . Think about that.
Crime against Chinese Americans is sky-rocketing.
Especially since some politicians started using terms like "The China Virus" and "The Kung Flu".
But the irony is-- no one can quite figure out why violence vs Chinese Americans suddenly started to sky rocket.
(Maybe its the weather? Mexicans on the border? The National Dept? 'Tis a mystery, eh?)
The irony is that people who say that don't want to talk about who the perpetrators really are.
So is antisemitism. Hatred is becoming quite commonplace. And, in my opinion, it is being furthered by both politicians and the media.
If the " the National Asian Pacific American Women’s Forum was non-partisan it would tell us who exactly, commits anti-Asian attacks.
End of story.
Not at ALL the end of the story. Unfortunately Paul Harvey is no longer around.
I would venture to say that those who commit anti-Asian attacks are not limited to any specific description, and in fact cover the waterfront, so there would be no purpose in specifying which ones. Besides, who are the ones who have used and still use terms like "China virus" to incite such attacks? Are they of a singular description only? We are even graced with such a person or persons right here on NT.
And that's only one of two-- don't forget those who constantly harp on the term "The Kung Flu")
Don't even try it Buzz, lest I release the statistics.
Who is preying on Asians Krishna?
Cat got your tongue?
Clue: It's the group that Joe Biden panders to,
This is the rule rather than the exception!
I wonder who he is implying who commits these anti-Asian attacks?
Who am I kidding, I know he is saying that it is ONLY African Americans doing this, which is a lie.
https://www.nbcnews.co...70821
Can't you hear the dog whistles regarding who is responsible for these attacks Buzz?
Viral images show people of color as anti-Asian perpetrators. That misses the big picture.
While news reports and social media have perpetuated the idea that anti-Asian violence is committed mostly by people of color, a new analysis shows the majority of attackers are white.
Janelle Wong, a professor of American Studies at the University of Maryland, College Park, released analysis last week that drew on previously published studies on anti-Asian bias. She found official crime statistics and other studies revealed more than three-quarters of offenders of anti-Asian hate crimes and incidents, from both before and during the pandemic, have been white, contrary to many of the images circulating online.
I didn't intend to point at any specific race, ethnicity or religion because I believe it can be, and has been, anyone.
No specifics, Vic, they come in all American shapes, sizes, colours, callings, etc.
No specifics? Yet you smear Trump.
I'll provide them for you, Buzz:
Just consider findings by the Spectator’s Robert Cherry. “Using 2019 FBI statistics — the most recently available data — I computed black and white perpetrators of hate crimes as a percentage of men 18 to 44 years old in their populations,” he reported March 11. “The black rate was 40 percent, 76 percent and 303 percent higher than the white rate for hate crimes against the Asian/Pacific Island, Latino and LGBTQ communities respectively. Even more troubling, black rates for hate-crime assaults were 94 percent higher while for property destruction and vandalism, they were 14 percent lower than white rates.”
So more revelatory than the FBI data are two other studies. First, 2021 research presented in the American Journal of Criminal Justice found that “the race of offenders differs significantly across hate crimes against Asian Americans, African Americans, and Hispanics. Specifically, hate crimes against Asian Americans are more likely than hate crimes against either African Americans or Hispanics to be committed by non-White offenders. This finding may be attributed to animosity toward the ‘model minority’ from other minority groups.”
Then, Melissa Chen writes at the Spectator ( adapted by the New York Post ), “Department of Justice statistics show that while victims of violence tend to be targeted by perpetrators within their ethnicities far more than any other, Asian victims are targeted more by other races at the following rates: 27.5 percent black, 24.1 percent white, 21.4 percent Hispanic (compared to 24.1 percent Asian). This seems to suggest that the white supremacy thesis is extremely weak.”
As for “hate crimes,” “it was plain to see from viral surveillance videos [example below] that it wasn’t MAGA-hatted assailants chanting ‘Chy-na virus’ or ‘Kung Flu’ as they took out defenseless elderly Asians,” Chen also states. In fact, perpetrators of anti-Asian “hate crimes” are most likely to be young black men/teens.
So much for the big lie that Trump caused it!
You need more facts John not less.
I know they are very inconvenient at times.
NOt as far right as you wish it was in MBFC so you report to SPLC?? Laughable at best.
We know who is lacking in facts John.
"I didn't intend to point at any specific race, ethnicity or religion because I believe it can be, and has been, anyone."
No, you didn't, but the poster is claiming that the majority of these attacks are by African Americans, which is a lie.
This was all because of whatshisname referring to Co-Vid 19 as the Kung Flu or the China virus.
I can't believe that you deny that Trump started the "China virus", "Kung flu" and "Wuhan virus" xenophobic verbiage. Deny it all you want, post your ultra right-wing denials - you're not going to change my mind with that garbage. But I said ANYONE has done it, and you immediately felt you had to deny it was your god and master. Think for yourself, for God's sake. Don't you realize that your having posted what you did was an ADMISSION of his guilt?
Nobody denied that he rightfully called it the CHINA VIRUS!
I'm just disposing of the lie about who is attacking Asian Americans!
Yes he did, and caused a huge uptick in anti-Asian hate crimes. Anti-Asian, because it's a racial reality about people who have similar facial characteristics as Chinese people.
It wasn't rightfully called the China virus and it's an outright lie that the majority of these hate crimes are done by African-Americans.
You prove he caused it
I'll wait
It's already been proven time and time again.
I don't have to prove it. Your defence of him proved it. Yet again you had put words in my mouth because I did not say Trump and it's late and I'm going to sleep because I'm really looking forward to the pizza and cake I'm getting for lunch tomorrow. So anything else you have to say is going to be "Blowing in the Wind".
BECAUSE YOU CAN"T PROVE IT!
[Deleted]
Hopefully they won't call you.
Talk later.
Then it should be easy for you to show where. Can ya? [deleted]
I think we've reached the moment of truth.
Trump Once Again Calls Covid-19 Coronavirus The …
Jun 24, 2020 · On Tuesday, in a re-election campaign rally in a church, the Dream City Church , U.S. President Donald Trump once again used the phrase "Kung flu"
Donald Trump Repeats 'China Virus' Slur on Fox News on ...
Mar 17, 2021 · Vox reporter Aaron Rupar noted that Trump used the phrase " China virus " during a Fox News interview that started at 7 p.m. ET on Tuesday. "I don't think it's a coincidence that
.
You need more, Vic? Do you need proof of the effect that it had as well Vic?
The ADL
"Since January 2020, there have been a significant number of reports of AAPI individuals being threatened and harassed on the street. These incidents include being told to “Go back to China,” being blamed for “bringing the virus” to the United States, being referred to with racial slurs, spat on, or physically assaulted. Statements by public officials referring to COVID-19 as the “Chinese virus,” “Kung Flu” or “Wu Flu” may be exacerbating the scapegoating and targeting of the AAPI community ." (LINK) ->
es-rise-as-coronavirus-spreads?fbclid=IwAR0GwtigosA__cwhPGuotRyUW4XNWr9t9cahC-tbgT1oogH9e_uv93r3-Dw
.
Stephen Colbert Blames Trump’s ‘Kung Flu’ Racism for Anti ...
“And that matches up neatly with the person who, for nearly a year, did this,” Colbert said before playing a damning supercut of Donald Trump using …
..
Calling COVID-19 a “Chinese Virus” or “Kung Flu” Is Racist
President Trump doubles down on a racist term, endangering Asian Americans
"My gut sank when President Trump responded today to ABC correspondent Cecilia Vega’s pointed question about his calling coronavirus the “Chinese Virus.” (See transcripts and links to video below.) He doubled down on his use of the term, and did not substantively address the report that his aide used the even more derogatory term “Kung Flu” with CBS correspondent Weijia Jang . "
PSYCHOLOLGY TODAY (LINK) ->
.
WORDS MATTER as expounded in this article by a government agency.
"At the institutional level, the state has often implicitly reinforced, encouraged, and perpetuated this violence through bigoted rhetoric and exclusionary policies. COVID-19 has enabled the spread of racism and created national insecurity, fear of foreigners, and general xenophobia, which may be related to the increase in anti-Asian hate crimes during the pandemic." (LINK) ->
[ Deleted ]
Murders in the US (2017); The only one I could find stats from the FBI:
A total of 9,468 with 53% committed by blacks
Robbery in the US (2017)
A total of 73,764 with 54% committed by blacks
And last but not least is this:
"In an October report, the Stop AAPI Hate Reporting Center (a leftist group) referred to Trump as the “greatest spreader among politicians of anti-Asian American rhetoric related to the pandemic.”
But the Stop AAPI Hate Reporting Center’s statistics suggest that blaming GOP rhetoric for the spike is an oversimplification of the crisis, according to Ying Ma, a conservative activist and author of the memoir “Chinese Girl in the Ghetto.”
“The people who put out this report, along with a lot of Democratic national leaders like Joe Biden as well as others, particularly the left-wing Asian-American political leaders, they constantly blamed, they’ve repeatedly blamed former President Trump for his COVID rhetoric, they’ve repeatedly blamed white supremacists for these attacks,” Ma said. “They’ve blamed Republicans. But if you look at the two states where the highest number of attacks have come from, they’re not Republican states . These states did not vote for Trump.”
She criticized Pelosi’s remarks on the situation, asserting that many hate-related incidents toward Asian-Americans “have actually occurred in her home district or in her backyard.”
About 35% of hate-related incidents occurred during encounters at business establishments, according to the group’s report. Some 25% occurred on a public street or sidewalk. More than 42% of the incidents targeted Chinese-Americans.
[ Deleted ]
You bet!
But that's because of structural racism, will be the response of course.
Structural racism is like God's Will, it can be used to explain everything and anything without worrying about rational argument.
Facts are facts are we have a cultural problem on our hands.
And what you are saying is that blacks aren't REAL Americans. So I guess they're not considered EXCEPTIONAL like the rest of you.
So the only people in NYC are DEMOCRATS, and there isn't anyone in NYC who can hear any anti-Asian rhetoric by Trump (you haven't denied his use of the terminology) and and nobody can possibly be affected by it, just like the Jan6 insurrectionists who all individually thought up what they wanted to do without any encouragement.
I want to thank you for your lesson in American demographics. Americans certainly are EXCEPTIONAL. Doesn't that word mean exceptions from normal?
Frankly, I have better things to do than to continue with this dialogue. Don't bother to reply unless you want to get a medal for having the last word.
Vic appears to be trying to scapegoat black Americans to advance some [removed] agenda.
Is that not how Trump started it with Asians?
Anything to avoid Trump taking responsibility!
What does that mean?
What cultural problem is that, Vic?
It means that a small part of the population does not share the same values as the rest of us. They don't respect law and order or common decency. They don't respect the rights of others. They don't even share America's work ethic. They are what Truman Capote once called the underbelly of American society.
which small part? Say it out loud and stop beating around the bush
just exactly who is us, [removed]
racist trash isn't courageous until they can put their pillowcase hats on ....
He must be speaking of the Italian Mafia or the Aryan Brotherhood.
Yeah....that's gotta be it
Thanks for the truth and facts Buzz, not to be found otherwise here.
You speak of a, "They". Please define, "They".
When Truman Capote spoke of an "Underbelly of Society", in his context, he was referring to the drag queens and hustlers he partied with along with Liza Minelli and Halston at Studio 54. The unique people Andy Warhol invited to his parties at The Factory. He was not disparaging them. He certainly was not casting racial aspersions. So, who really are these undefined "They" of which you speak?
False. He used that term when he promoted his book "In Cold Blood" and it was the killers he spoke of.
You have it all wrong but it really doesn't matter.
Quit dodging answering my questions. Of whom were you referring when you spoke of a, "They"? Those you say do not share your values?
You were not referring to a couple of poor white guys who killed a family in Kansas in the 1950s.
That was a dodge, all rightie, but not in Kansas.
That's a misleading 'stat' Vic. Those are the number of ARRESTS in 2017 and is limited to the jurisdictions that actually submit reports AND designate race.
Statistics in a vacuum.
Ma's 'characterization' of the AAPI data is merely an attempt to bolster her unfounded opinion. It should surprise no one that the AAPI data doesn't support her claim in any way.
Pelosi represents San Francisco, which has one of the HIGHEST percentage of Asians of any city in the US so the fact that ' many hate-related incidents toward Asian-Americans “have actually occurred in her home district or in her backyard.' isn't surprising, is it Vic?
Oh and it's SHOCKING!, shocking I tell you that 'More than 42% of the incidents targeted Chinese-Americans' since Chinese-Americans far outnumber any other Asian ethnic group.
Who were white...
No it's not misleading.
Those are the number of ARRESTS in 2017 and is limited to the jurisdictions that actually submit reports AND designate race.
Of course they are the number of arrests. What should they be based on? All jurisdictions should report race & all other stats and report them. I suppose some don't want that. Thus the reluctance of the FBI to publish the numbers.
Pelosi represents San Francisco, which has one of the HIGHEST percentage of Asians of any city in the US so the fact that ' many hate-related incidents toward Asian-Americans “have actually occurred in her home district or in her backyard.' isn't surprising, is it Vic?
That many Asian Americans live on the west coast in blue cities? No.
Or
That many hate-related incidents against Asian Americans took place in those very same blue districts? Again, No.
Well gee Vic, how about the number of "Murders in the US (2017)"
They don't. Deal with it.
WTF are you talking about Vic? Doesn't your link prove that the FBI does indeed publish the numbers? So what evidence are you relying on to claim that there is a 'reluctance' to do so?
Statistically, the VAST majority of cities ARE 'blue'.
Kinda a statistical reality Vic.
Really?
So please tell me Vic, how will 'culture' mitigate all of those maladies?
And San Francisco has more than a fair share of anti-Asian hate crimes:
Anti-AAPI hate crimes jumped 567% in San Francisco in 2021 ...
.
Anti-Asian American and Pacific Islander (AAPI) hate crimes in San Francisco jumped 567% from 2020 to 2021, according to preliminary data released by the city's police department.
It can't....The horse left the barn long ago with the destruction of the Black family unity, which was once in good shape. Black church leaders have failed the communtity as well.
So, Dulay, we'll have to do it my way. We enforce the law, regardless of root cause!
And San Francisco is a bastion of liberalism!
So how do you explain it?
Thank you for FINALLY admitting that when you posted:
You were talking about Black Americans.
You can stop tapdancing around it now.
BTW Vic, you don't know the first fucking thing about Black family unity OR the Black church so my suggestion is that you refrain from opining about them.
I cannot think of ANYTHING I would want to do 'your way' Vic.
Luckily Vic, 'we' don't live by laws that exclusively enforce YOUR values, YOUR sense of common decency, YOUR concept of respecting the rights of others and/or YOUR work ethic.
Frustrated Conservatives?
Just like NYC - no conservatives, right-wingers or Republicans live in or around San Francisco, right Vic? Maybe the very few who do are so fired up for being such a tiny minority they do their damndest to do massive attacks on the Asian minority. At least Tony Bennett's heart is there.
What small part of the population, Vic? Do you mean the criminal element that exists in all people? But here, let me help you with that.
This is the 2019 FBI crime stats for murder.
Please take note of a few items. 1. Whites and blacks murder their own more than anyone else. Given that as a proportion of the population (white population: 234,370,202 and black population: 40,610,815), we are really talking about a very small minority of people who qualify as the underbelly of American society.
Furthermore, if we look into this, even more, using the FBI crime stats, you can see that different races seem to do different kinds of non white collar crime. I think that the chart speaks for itself.
So where blacks might lead in murder and robbery *keeping in mind that it is mostly on their own, whites lead in rape, aggravated assault, burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicles theft, arson (both violent and property), and all other assaults.
So we can all see what we want to see, but the facts speak for themselves.
You are talking about less that 12% of the population leading in murder and robbery. Ignoring that fact will only add to the problem. We need to admit it and address it.
Luckily, WE DO!
You must be using the 'royal WE'. The 'rest of us' don't live laws that codify the dystopian vision in your comment.
Thanks for the truth and facts Perrie, something seriously lacking here.
The WE is the muscular class that makes the world go round.
Since 'we' are talking about laws, your comment is irrelevant. IMHO, it also illustrates delusions of grandeur.
Vic, here is the actual percentage is for murder and robbery:
Whites: .0154%
Blacks: .1109%
Even though blacks rank slightly higher, neither come close to even making up even 1% of their population, which means the majority of people of both races are decent. Meanwhile, you ignore all the other crimes that whites do, that adds up to more than blacks. And if you are going to draw conclusions that:
Which obviously the numbers shown are a very small part of society. Most people are decent and want a good life. You can't make a sweeping generalization about a group based on such small numbers. If so, what do you say about the fact that most serial killers and mass shooters are white? Is there something wrong with their society?
Obviously, there are many factors that go into these numbers, so one can not draw a conclusion that there is a massive failure in these groups, but rather issues that persist. No race or ethnic group is good or bad unless that is what you chose to see in them.
You put your finger on the truth quite well. I will try to expand on it a little. Back in the day when I was on a race relations forum just about every day, (early 2000's) I did a lot of looking into crime statistics. I believe that the DOJ began to track homicides by race sometime in the mid 1970's. Ever since then it has been clear that (certain) blacks commit murder (homicide) at a rate far beyond their percentage of the overall population. In general, over the course of decades, the 12 or 13 percent of the population that is black account for roughly 1/2 of all murders.
Its not so much a question if this is true as why it is true.
There is a subculture of blacks that is oppositional to the society at large. These are the gangbangers and others in the urban underclass. It is true that they do lack respect for life. What the racists, including those we see everyday on Newstalkers, dont understand or dont want to admit is that America created this underclass that doesnt respect life. We created it through centuries of racism , segregation, oppression , and the rest directed at non whites. These black gangbangers and other deviants are the product of all that has come before them. They are not assimilated the way we would like and expect.
Where the racists go wrong is when conclude there is something wrong with black culture independent from what the society at large created in them. Yes, black criminals should be held responsible for their acts, but that is not the whole answer. The answer is to approach the problem both from the need to assimilate these individuals from the perspectice of self-responsibility, AND to realize the need to end racism , to be "anti-racist". One approach without the other will fail, and has failed for many years.
America (white America) has never accepted the fact that this has been a racist country from the beginning. There has never been a time when the majority of white Amricans have not held or expressed racially bigoted beliefs. Without that acceptance and clear desire to change by whites, the black underclass that is prone to violence will not assimilate, because they see that they are not really welcome to participate fully in "normal" American life.
About a mile from my house is a neighborhood of Chicago that is well knwn for its white racism. Blacks are not welcome in that community. When a Black Lives Matter march took place there in 2020 people in the neighborhood began to openly talk about moving to Indiana to get away from all the n------s. I know that because I saw it in extended family. This also happens to be a neighborhood when a sizable part of the population are Chicago cops and firemen.
As long as we have so much racism we will never get the black criminal underclass to assimilate.
The racists such as we see here are doing nothing but perpetuating the problem. And demographics heading into the future make it crystal clear that cannot just wait the situation out. America will become a less and less "white" country with every passing year.
No kidding. So where did I say the majority of any group was deviant?
Meanwhile, you ignore all the other crimes that whites do,
That's not going to work Perrie. A tiny percentage coming from a small group, and we both agree a small percentage of that 12% is committing an awful lot of crime. I don't know why anyone would be afraid to admit it. We have a problem and the first step is admitting it.
Which obviously the numbers shown are a very small part of society. Most people are decent and want a good life. You can't make a sweeping generalization about a group based on such small numbers.
But I didn't make a sweeping generalization and BTW certain generalizations are factual such as the Asian population commits very little crime. There are facts that can't be explained away simply because certasin people don't like hearing them and there is NO VIRTUE in denial because you want to protect a certain group.
If so, what do you say about the fact that most serial killers and mass shooters are white? Is there something wrong with their society?
Of course, Perrie. So your argument is there is basically good asnd bad in all groups and I should keep my mouth shut about the murder & robbery rate for blacks because they live in a bubble. Sorry Perrie, I'm not buying it.
That would be you.
[deleted]
Says the man who insist on addressing 'the issue' while insisting on ignoring the 'root causes' because 'certain people don't like to hear them'.
First of all, I never said you used the word deviant. What you did say was:
Then you say:
I gave you the numbers. .1109% of that 12% are committing crimes and that is a tiny fraction of them or translated another way, of almost 41 million people only .1109% have been convicted of any crime. We have a problem? Yeah, focusing in on a tiny, tiny minority of thugs as opposed to focusing in on the growing black middle class, or that never in our time have we had more blacks graduating both high school and college.
How did I protect a group, when I gave the actual numbers involved? I only deal with facts. Please don't guess as to my intentions, because you are wrong.
No, my argument is that you are focused on a very small minority of people instead of looking at the actual numbers. There is nothing to buy. These are facts. These are the numbers.
But we must admit it and then we can begin to address it. You want to give credit to the growing middle class? That's fine with me and I'll join you as soon as the composition of our inner cities change. How long have they been this way? I recall Douglas MacArthur complaining to president Kennedy about the problem going on in the inner cities. That's over 60 years ago.
How did I protect a group, when I gave the actual numbers involved? I only deal with facts. Please don't guess as to my intentions, because you are wrong.
Our crime problem is tied mainly to culture and race.
No, my argument is that you are focused on a very small minority of people instead of looking at the actual numbers.
I did and by your own accounting, it is even more astounding - it could be 1 0r 2% of the population committing 50% of all the murder and robberies.
Liberals had their chance. One of their own wrote the Moynihan Report. They rejected it!
I agree, the Italian Mafia has to be exterminated.
It was, a long time ago.
You like to Google, right?
Go look up Rudolph Giuliani
Really!!! sure isn't in the real world. All five major Mafia Families exist and in gambling, drugs, restaurants and bars, they still have a significant influence.
Then there is the Aryan Brotherhood and all it's off shoots and LOS and all the other white power groups.
Yes sir, there sure are a lot of those white gangs in the US.
Rudy ''Hands Down His Pants'' is that the same as Rudy ''Four Seasons''...I'm sure that I'd listen to him...LOL
Ya! Gangs and the mafia no longer exist.
Never heard of the Yakuza have you?
Or the Asian Boyz.
That's like saying ICE still exists.
My comment stands with or without any group you can name. The Asian population of this country commits very little crime. It has a lot to do with culture.
What makes you an expert on Asian culture? [deleted]
Conservatives have never even tried.
Citing the Moynihan Report proves just how obtuse your comments have been Vic.
The Moynihan Report documents that data of the effect in Irish families, of rural families being thrust into urban communities, which correlated with the data on the effect of urbanization on rural Black families. So instead of blaming it on RACE, as YOU do, in reality the issue illustrated by the Moynihan Report was the culture shock of rural vs. urban.
Perhaps instead of just throwing out the Moynihan Report rhetorically, you should READ the fucking thing. I know you won't.
Oh and BTFW Vic, the Moynihan Report also documents that the 'Black family' as a WHOLE, were NEVER in 'good shape' by your standard. Moynihan cites E. Franklin Frazier, who studied and wrote about the 'Black family' from before the Civil War to WWII. Frazier's work was done in the 1930-40s, Moynihan's in the 60's and NEITHER of them say that Black families were in 'good shape' and BOTH cite historical and SYSTEMIC discrimination as a 'root cause'. You know that thingy that you are desperate to ignore.
Conservatives could never touch it, lest they be called "racists." It took Bill Clinton to try and do something about it.
The Moynihan Report documents that data of the effect in Irish families, of rural families being thrust into urban communities, which correlated with the data on the effect of urbanization on rural Black families. So instead of blaming it on RACE, as YOU do, in reality the issue illustrated by the Moynihan Report was the culture shock of rural vs. urban.
Perhaps instead of just throwing out the Moynihan Report rhetorically, you should READ the fucking thing. I know you won't.
I have. It's about the destruction of the black family, caused by liberals. You need glasses.
Oh and BTFW Vic, the Moynihan Report also documents that the 'Black family' as a WHOLE, were NEVER in 'good shape' by your standard.
WRONG AGAIN! In the 50's it was in better shape than that of American society at large.
Did black families segregate themselves in ghettos? In most American cities ghettos were created by white flight.
Gee Kavika, those are some pretty hateful comments
I was just reading about a Chicago neighborhood that went from 75% white to about .05% white in just 20 years.
Do you want a straightforward answer or should I call people names and then erase it?
Ethnic groups were able to graduate from the inner city 60 years ago.
They assimilated John.
I have no idea what you are talking about.
That's why I copied it. Check Post 5.1.69 to see what you erased.
[Deleted]
And what hateful comments are those, Vic? Do you mean the comment about the Asian Boyz? Do you need a history lesson on Asian gangs in the US?
I mean all of your commentary.
This coming from someone that is talking about an armed revolution....
Seems dealing with facts is very difficult for you. It's not that hard if you put your mind to it, go ahead give it a try, Vic.
I ddint erase anything . you are hallucinating.
Sorry. What you refer to in 5.1.69 is still in the original post I made.
But don't you know that gangs of any kind no longer exist in the US?
So conservatives are cowards. Got ya.
Actually, LBJ took a pretty good swing at it.
Sure you have Vic. /s
That is a lie.
Nope, I just set the zoom @ 110%.
False.
Prove that Vic. I'll wait.
It's 'Asian' culture, NOT 'US' culture.
This from the guy who stated that Blacks do 'not share the same values as the rest of us', that Blacks 'don't respect law and order or common decency', that Blacks 'don't respect the rights of others', that Blacks 'don't even share America's work ethic' and are the underbelly of American society.
Talk about hateful comments.
YOUR 'muscular class' created that culture Vic. Own it.
I never said all Blacks.
And that brings us to the worst group of offenders - the white liberals who keep telling inner city blacks that they are the victims of systemic racism and racist cops.
You see Dulay, above & beyond the tremendous spike in crime is the targeting of police officers and those very same white liberals are to blame for that.
"Prove that Vic. I'll wait."
FFS - talk about living in the past! For the white folks I'm sure it was!
You are correct on every point you make Dulay, every single one.
INDEED!
You NEVER excluded any Blacks from your vitriol Vic. You've cited the entire percentage of the AA population in the US multiple times. You cited 'Black family units', the 'Black church' and the Black community. You stated:
So Vic, point me to content in your DAYS of posts where you've made it clear that you never MEANT all Blacks.
You can stop tip toeing around. [Deleted]
I'll wait for a response
No response yet!
I guess I'll have to demonstrate it myself:
"Former Vice President Joe Biden says there is "absolutely" systemic racism in law enforcement, but noted the problem is much broader than just law enforcement. Biden made the comments in an interview with "CBS Evening News" anchor and managing editor Norah O'Donnell in CBS News' primetime special "Justice for All."
And that kind of reckless pandering is what put a target on cops.
WE don't tell them that - they know it because they are the victims of systemic racism and racist cops.
"Absolutely," Biden responded. "But it's not just in law enforcement, it's across the board. It's in housing, it's in education, and it's in everything we do. It's real. It's genuine. It's serious. And it is — it is able to be dealt with. Look, not all law enforcement officers are racist; my lord, there are some really good, good cops out there. But the way in which it works right now is we've seen too many examples of it."
Everything President Biden says is true.
Point out where he 'put a target on cops'.
You can't because it's not there.
And that is the final component of this. Liberals sold that lie and cops were murdered.
That's a lie. What a hateful thing to say. And a lie.
You never pointed out where President Biden said this, because it's not there. It's not true.
Right Vic. As the self-proclaimed expert in inner city blacks, you've witnessed this brainwashing for yourself. Please tell me all about what YOU did about it. /s
Targeting police officers has been on the uptick for quite while Vic. FBI stats show it that those stats went up throughout Trump's term.
We'll see what the FBI stats say about 2021 but since the over 150 police officers were targeted on Jan. 6th, I'm pretty sure the percentages will be off the charts.
Oh and BTFW, FBI reports cite Sovreign Citizens as the #1 group of cop killers. Hardly a 'white liberal' group Vic.
The hate belongs to those who have encouraged & emboldened others to kill cops.
Wow, from what you're saying here Dulay, is that the former 'president' is the one who put the target on police officers' backs, NOT PRESIDENT BIDEN.
republicans? The gop? The gqp?
What lie?
I DID say it, you block quoted it.
Did I misrepresent your statements Vic? Hint: NO. So, what's your issue?
What is it you want me to say that you haven't already made abundantly clear in your own words Vic?
You mean like:
"The sniper who killed five Dallas police officers Thursday night as they guarded protesters at an anti-police brutality march was angry about recent shootings by police and “wanted to kill white people,” according to authorities.
The gunman was identified as Micah Xavier Johnson, 25, who was blown up by a police robot while holed up on the second level of a parking garage early Friday morning after negotiations with police broke down."
That happened under Obama's term, not long after he invited BLM into the White House
No you didn't. It's an easy word...One that lefties call most people.
C'omon you can do it
No Vic. I clearly cited Trump's term. Stop deflecting please.
BTFW, are you so uninformed that you think ONE incident reflects the YEARLY FBI stats I spoke about?
And I showed you where it started. It went on through Trump's & Biden's terms. I don't recall Trump telling Black Americans that cops were all racists, do you?
BTFW, are you so uninformed that you think ONE incident reflects the YEARLY FBI stats I spoke about?
BTFW, are you so unscrupulous that you are going to claim that my prime example represents all the YEARLY FBI stats?
I repeat:
Did I misrepresent your statements Vic? Hint: NO. So, what's your issue?
What is it you want me to say that you haven't already made abundantly clear in your own words Vic?
Oh and BTFW ever gave you the idea that I would post what YOU demand of me?
Of course you did. And others here tried it too.
You should have looked at my comments in post 5.1.68
I'm not expecting an apology. [Deleted]
Where Vic?
I couldn't care less.
I DID, I replied to it, and you replied to that reply.
You've failed to earn one Vic.
THAT is a sweeping generalization, but just like all of the rest of the 'foot in mouth' comments, I'd rather members read what was posted in your seed.
[Deleted]
Bullshit Vic. Sovreign citizens have been targeting cops for decades. Get educated.
STOP insinuating that Black Americans have to be TOLD what to do and/or how to feel Vic.
I am using YOUR OWN WORDS Vic. Own it.
You are a progressive and you resort to what progressives do.
OWN IT!
[Deleted]
Oh, I DO. I have no problem taking responsibility for my own words Vic.
WTF are you trying to pretend I am afraid of Vic?
Are you so out of touch that you actually think I give a fuck about you flagging me?
That's a galactic example of delusions of grandeur.
Here's a word for you Vic:
Whinner.
[Deleted] Show me where I said ALL?
WTF are you trying to pretend I am afraid of Vic?
Because you are. I dare you. [Deleted]
Aw c'mon Vic.
Let's get serious here, OK?
To quote a great American Poet:
Remember:
Ya don't have to be Weatherman to know which way the wind blows!
Period!
Subterranean Homesick Blues by Bob Dylan ... Great song....
To quote one better:
"Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted."
Vladimir Lenin
You see how well that worked
In Russia's case it "worked" from 1922 to 1991.
That's because the vandals stole the handles.
“Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.”
― Aristotle
So who do you think has the most impression on a person. I would say the parents.
Btw, the BBC did an over 40-year documentary "Up" that showed this.
"Philosophy Of Classroom In One Generation Will Be Philosophy Of Government In The Next"
-- Abraham Lincoln
To answer the question that you posed and answered: It depends on the individual child. I have seen those who had great parents, but grew up in a terrible neighborhood grow up more influenced by the neighborhood. I would say that teachers have a tremendous influence on children. The best evidence is what we read right here on NT. We have many far left extremists and I will wager the vast majority of them were indoctrinated in college.
Vic,
I have 3 degrees, accounting/ economics, early childhood ed, and biology/earth science. I also went to 3 different universities. I was never indoctrinated politically.
I find it really sad that education has become the enemy.
You are very lucky. Many are not.
I find it really sad that education has become the enemy.
Me too. The problem began decades ago when Conservatives allowed the left to completely take over higher education.
If the left controls higher education how do you explain Pepperdine, The Chicago School of Economics, Texas A&M, Bob Jones University?
Are you saying that 4 schools managed to maintain some sort of balance?
Vic,
I can name a ton of universities that are not political. My daughter's never had a class that had anything to do with politics, and neither did I. It is an over exaggeration, to say the least, to say that the left has taken over higher ed. If you don't want your kids to get exposed to left ideas, encourage them not to take the social sciences.
Its like he's trying to prove your point.
[removed]
Oh, so you admit it!
Of course they aren't going to be teaching Marxist dogma at a technical school, ect, but they get to do it everywhere else.
No longer! The next Republican President must deny federal funding to any school that teaches leftist ideologies.
[Deleted]
This is not a secret Vic. Some professors in the social sciences are Marxist, but not all by a long shot. And there are many other studies that never go near the social sciences, like Math, biology, computer science, architecture, Bio-Med, anthropology, astronomy, education, just to list a few. The majority of kids get an education and move on.
That will be seen. At most deny funding to a department.
And some don't. We have a good sampling running the country right now. We have the "squad" and Susan Rice and Sonia Sotomayor and those who control the media just to name a few. Idea's have consequences too, especially when they are being instilled in our children.
That will be seen. At most deny funding to a department.
You are right. Nobody has made that promise. It is only my wish.
I took Poly Sci in Jr college. All you had to do to pass the class was to keep the instructor supplied with Jack Daniels.
And set the precedent for the next Democratic President to deny federal funding to any school that teaches rightist ideologies like "Intelligent Design" or "Can't say gay" FL schools or anything else.
Rather people with children stick to their own school district and the rest of us butt out of how they they manage their schools?
Used to be that way, until they created the US Department of Education and organized the schools nationally, got all the teachers into unions organized nationally, and now legally driving political propaganda under the auspices of education...
So you would rather go back to local control of the schools? Is that what your really saying? Have the government give up it's control of the schools?
Another person was thrown on the tracks today.
Looks like Adams was wrong about the subway being safe.
They're not releasing any information about the victim, not even his name. There must be a reason for that.
Usually the name of the victim is withheld until notification of NOK. But, there are the conspiracy theorists.
Yeah, usually when the victim is dead or unconscious, but this guy had a leg injury yet he climbed back on the platform himself. One would think his NOK know all about it by now.
There could be several reasons they weren't identified. It could be a simple as just pointing out that there is still a problem and allowing the victim and their family peace.
Okay, I just wondered.
NYC doesn't deserve such men!
I hope everyone got it. It's up to NT as to how it's going to be.