Florida could shield whites from 'discomfort' of racist past

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  john-russell  •  4 months ago  •  133 comments

Florida could shield whites from 'discomfort' of racist past
A bill pushed by Republican Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis that would prohibit public schools and private businesses from making white people feel “discomfort” when they teach students or train employees about discrimination in the nation’s past received its first approval Tuesday.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



apnews.com   /article/business-florida-lawsuits-ron-desantis-racial-injustice-3ec10492b7421543315acf4491813c1b

Florida could shield whites from 'discomfort' of racist past


By BRENDAN FARRINGTON 3-4 minutes   1/18/2022




TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) — A bill pushed by Republican Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis that would prohibit public schools and private businesses from making white people feel “discomfort” when they teach students or train employees about discrimination in the nation’s past received its first approval Tuesday.

The Senate Education Committee approved the bill that takes aim at critical race theory — though it doesn’t mention it explicitly — on party lines, with Republicans in favor and Democrats opposed.

Democrats argued the bill isn’t needed, would lead to frivolous lawsuits and said it would amount to censorship in schools. They asked, without success, for real-life examples of teachers or businesses telling students or employees that they are racist because of their race.

“This bill’s not for Blacks, this bill was not for any other race. This was directed to make whites not feel bad about what happened years ago,” said state Sen. Shevrin Jones, who is Black. “At no point did anyone say white people should be held responsible for what happened, but what I would ask my white counterparts is, are you an enabler of what happened or are you going to say we must talk about history?”

DeSantis held a news conference last month in which he called critical race theory “crap,” and said he would seek legislation that would allow parents to sue schools and employees to sue employers if they were subject to its teachings.

Critical race theory is a way of thinking about America’s history through the lens of racism. It was developed during the 1970s and 1980s in response to what scholars viewed as a lack of racial progress following the civil rights legislation of the 1960s. It centers on the idea that racism is systemic in the nation’s institutions and that they function to maintain the dominance of white people in society.

Conservatives reject it, saying it is a world view derived from Marxism that divides society by defining people as oppressors and oppressed based on their race. They call it an attempt to rewrite American history and make white people believe they are inherently racist.

The bill reads in part, “An individual, by virtue of his or her race or sex, does not bear responsibility for actions committed in the past by other members of the same race or sex. An individual should not be made to feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race.”

The bill is called “Individual Freedom.” Republican Sen. Manny Diaz, its sponsor, said it is not about ignoring the “dark” parts of American history, but rather ensuring that people are not blamed for sins of the past.

“No individual is inherently racist, sexist or oppressive, whether consciously or unconsciously, solely by the virtue of his or her race or sex,” Garcia said. “No race is inherently superior to another race.”

Jones said DeSantis is playing to his conservative base by pushing the legislation, but wouldn’t go so far as to say DeSantis himself is racist.

“The governor will continue to go across the country with his racist rhetoric on critical race theory ... It’s a problem that doesn’t exist,” Jones said. “I think the governor’s policies that he continues to push are racist.”

The governor’s office didn’t respond to an emailed request for comment.




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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  seeder  JohnRussell    4 months ago
would prohibit public schools and private businesses from making white people feel “discomfort” when they teach students or train employees about discrimination in the nation’s past

Of course. This is what the CRT brouha has always been all about. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @1    4 months ago

So you want teachers to force kids to  feel discomfort.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1    4 months ago

You want to have laws that forbid people feeling discomfort. This is all about white people who are willing to admit racism existed but dont want it said that whites were the perpetrators. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1    4 months ago
On Monday, marking Martin Luther King Day, the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire tweeted, and then later deleted, a remark that Black people are "in debt" to America for special race-based favors. "Black people in America get special access to essential drugs, receive special federal funding due to race, and are first-in-line for every college and every job," said the tweet. "America isn't in debt to black people, if anything it's the other way around."
www.rawstory.com       /mlk-day/
 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
1.1.3  bbl-1  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1    4 months ago

Oh my.  The discomfort of it all.  "Hang Mike Pence," right?

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
1.1.4  Krishna  replied to  bbl-1 @1.1.3    4 months ago

Well there's nothing wrong with chanting "Hang Mike Pence"-- as long as it doesn't make him feel "discomfortable"!

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
1.1.5  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @1.1.4    4 months ago

OTOH, if chanting "Hang Mike Pence" does make him feel discomfort, then yes it should be made illegal, and the alleged perps should be apprehended and brought to justice ASAP!

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
1.1.6  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @1.1.5    4 months ago

No punishment is too severe for those who make others feel discomfort.

After all making someone feel discomfort is a dastardly act...the ultimate crime.

(Fortunately as horrendous as that act may be, it's quite rare in our society! But seriously with the application of due diligence wwwe can bring the number of cases down. Perhaps eliminating that crime altogether!)

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
1.1.7  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @1.1.6    4 months ago

P.S. I sincerely apologize to anyone who was made to feel discomfort by anything I've said-- believe me it was entirely unintentional.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.1.8  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.1    4 months ago
ave laws that forbid people feeling discomfor

No, I don't. And that's not what the law says, is it? 

Given this whole thread is nothing but strawmen, it doesn't seem the opponents of this law have an argument based in reality, do they? 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
1.1.9  Krishna  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1.8    4 months ago

Don't Take it personally, but your comment is causing me discomfort!

(Of course I'm no lawyer but . . . )

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.10  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.1    4 months ago

271895329_10224500212045244_7767972375587561910_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=rzSalibtEX0AX_kRZZU&_nc_oc=AQlbcUOikCtphxaGd_bUW5UVB4xMJbh9ALoXfotQx7oEFFh7mCRzoyF07SrOj7sIooU&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=00_AT_GOfdgjWpleFp0DI4I27Ttf2Fe6Lm-YXUwVD2hyDsJEw&oe=61ED7B15

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.11  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1    4 months ago

Since when do you need protection from feeling discomfort? I thought liberals were the snowflakes

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.12  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1.8    4 months ago

"Feelings....nothing but feelings...."

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.13  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.10    4 months ago

yep

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.1.14  Sean Treacy  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.11    4 months ago
nce when do you need protection from feeling discomfort? I thought liberals were the snowflakes

Get that strawman!

[deleted]

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.1.15  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.13    4 months ago
yep

You are more honest than this john. [deleted]

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.16  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1.14    4 months ago

I didn't see anywhere in that article that says teachers are making kids feel bad about their race. If anyone is creating a strawman it's the legislators in the Florida assembly.

Well? Have conservatives finally embraced the snowflake label?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.17  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.16    4 months ago

The law against making anyone feel discomfort about the racial past in America applies to adults too, not just kids. They dont want anyone believing whites were responsible for racism. It just sort of happened, nobody's fault. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.18  Trout Giggles  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.17    4 months ago

Racism is alive and well in America, but what happened back in the early days of the Republic is not the fault of any one individual alive today.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.19  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.18    4 months ago

It goes far beyond the early days of the Republic , but I agree that people who are alive today and are not racist themselves have nothing to feel personally guilty over. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.1.20  Sean Treacy  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.16    4 months ago
e anywhere in that article that says teachers are making kids feel bad about their race

That's what the law prevents. Did you read the law? 

Well? Have conservatives finally embraced the snowflake label?

[deleted]

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.21  Trout Giggles  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.19    4 months ago
It goes far beyond the early days of the Republic

You're right. It goes back to the early colonial days

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.22  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1.20    4 months ago
Again, you think it's okay for employers/teachers to tell black people they should be ashamed of their race.  You miss Jim  Crow?

Who's creating the strawman now, Sean? Please show me my exact words that I said it's ok for people to tell other people they should be ashamed of their race. I'll wait

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.1.23  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.17    4 months ago
e feel discomfort about the racial past in America applies to adults too, not just kids. They dont want anyone believing whites were responsible for racism. It just sort of happened, nobody's fault

That's not what it says at all, but don't let that stop you. 

So you think teachers/employers should be able to tell black people they should be ashamed of their race? That's okay for you? Or is it only okay for teachers to tell white kids to be ashamed of their race?

[deleted]

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.1.24  Sean Treacy  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.22    4 months ago
ease show me my exact words that I said it's ok for people to tell other people they should be ashamed of their race. I'll wait

Do you not understand what's going on? That's what you are arguing, whether you understand it or not. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.25  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1.24    4 months ago

In other words you can't show my exact words. Got it.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.1.26  Ender  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1.24    4 months ago

So now you can tell people what their argument is?

Hate to break the news to you but I have been reading this and she says nothing close to what you are trying to say she is.

This is nothing more than the dumbing down of the school system and giving people that think they have their feeling hurt a way to sue the school system or business.

How republicans can claim to be for business yet make a law that if someone feels discomfort with any training they may have can sue the business...

Trout is right, a bunch of snowflakes...

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.1.27  Sean Treacy  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.25    4 months ago
words you can't show my exact words. Got it.

Is that you imagine communication works?  In your world,  one can say extremally racist things, but if they don't say "I'm a racist" than they can't be called a racist? 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.28  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1.27    4 months ago

I have nothing more to say to you

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.1.29  Sean Treacy  replied to  Ender @1.1.26    4 months ago
I have been reading this and she says nothing close to what you are trying to say she is.

I can't help it if the two of you can't figure out the implication of what she's claiming. That's on you. 

 is nothing more than the dumbing down of the school system

So you support teaching kids to feel guilty because of their race. Not too shocking. 

 that if someone feels discomfort with any training they may have can sue the business..

So you support business teaching employees to be racist and making it a condition of their employment.

Trout is right, a bunch of snowflakes...

Ah, yes. We see it over and over. The left doesn't like a term being used against them, so they redefine it to use against their critics. Juke like CRT suddenly means teaching accurate history, now "snowflake" means being against teachers teaching kids that they should be ashamed of their race.  

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.1.30  Ender  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1.27    4 months ago

Do you always make things up?

Because that is all you are doing right now.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.1.31  Ender  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1.29    4 months ago

You offer nothing other than making up scenarios out of thin air then claiming it as some argument people are making.

Come back with something real.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.32  Tessylo  replied to  Ender @1.1.30    4 months ago

That appears to be all the alleged conservatives do - make things up.  

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.1.33  Sean Treacy  replied to  Ender @1.1.30    4 months ago
Do you always make things up?

Do you get how funny it is that you are in a thread full of people claiming this law makes it illegal to teach about the civil war or the civil rights movement and you claim I'm making things up?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.34  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1.33    4 months ago

Ok...not done. Who here has said this law makes it illegal to teach about the civil war. I have read and re-read every comment in this thread and I can't find ONE person who has made such a claim.

Sean you are making shit up. If I were you I would quit

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.1.35  Sean Treacy  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.34    4 months ago

ho here has said this law makes it illegal to teach about the civil war. I

Krishna did. 

Sean you are making shit up

I'll await your apology. 

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.1.36  Ender  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1.33    4 months ago

I just noticed you didn't deny it and deflect onto something else...

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.1.37  Sean Treacy  replied to  Ender @1.1.36    4 months ago

 [deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.38  Tessylo  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1.37    4 months ago

It's not left wingers spouting disinformation.  

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.39  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1.35    4 months ago

Oh, Jaysus! That's not in this thread! Learn the difference! This thread starts at 1.0. Krishna's comment is at 5.1...not the same thread!

Now instead of using his comment to pretend you know what everyone is thinking why don't you ask Krishna what he meant.

I can't converse with someone who doesn't even know the definition of a forum "thread"

and fuck your apology

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.40  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ender @1.1.36    4 months ago
I just noticed you didn't deny it and deflect onto something else...

that's his method of debate. My 11th grade English teacher would have had kittens if he was in her class

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.1.41  Sean Treacy  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.39    4 months ago
 This thread starts at 1.0. Krishna's comment is at 5.1...not the same thread!

[deleted]

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.1.42  Sean Treacy  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.40    4 months ago
that's his method of debate. M

And yours is the ostrich  method.  

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.43  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1.41    4 months ago

that's not a dodge. [deleted]

[Now I'm done]

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Freshman Guide
1.1.44  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.1    4 months ago

Nope.  This is all about white people who are willing to admit racism existed and that whites were the perpetrators.  History teaches us that.  What is the issue is that kids (and adults) today should not be made to believe that they are responsible for the sins of the past. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.1.45  Sean Treacy  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.43    4 months ago
removed for context

That's a bold card to play  given your inability to understand what "I have nothing more to say to you" means.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.46  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1.45    4 months ago

impasse

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
1.1.47  Krishna  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1    4 months ago

No they shouldn't be forced.Rather, children's parents (and not big government) should be the ones to decide if their kids should be forced to feel discomfort!

(Despite what Big Government Republicans like DeSantis are trying to force on them)

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
1.1.48  bbl-1  replied to  Right Down the Center @1.1.44    4 months ago

Not exactly.  Knowledge does not imply responsibility.  However, knowledge may elicit responsible future actions.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Freshman Guide
1.1.49  Right Down the Center  replied to  bbl-1 @1.1.48    4 months ago

History class that already exists already does give them the knowledge.  CRT is taking it to a whole other level.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
1.1.50  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.18    4 months ago

Therein lies the rub. According to what is being pushed by many on the liberal left, that is exactly the perception. They insist on blaming those alive today for the actions of their ancestors and trying to judge the wrongs done then in the context of today whether their ancestors had anything to with slavery or not.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.51  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @1.1.50    4 months ago

I'm part of the so-called liberal left and I don't insist that white people feel guilty just because we had the privilege of being born white. We don't own what happened 400 years ago. We must acknowledge that it happened and teach the facts about slavery, Jim Crow, and the fight for civil rights. But nobody needs to feel guilty about it. I don't know one person who wants everyone to feel guilty for our history

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
1.1.52  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.51    4 months ago

I deliberately did not say all on the liberal left, I just said many. Unlike some posting on NT, I refuse to attempt to tar all with the same brush.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.53  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @1.1.52    4 months ago

my apologies

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
1.1.54  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.51    4 months ago

I agree.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
1.1.55  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.53    4 months ago

No problemo.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
1.1.56  bbl-1  replied to  Right Down the Center @1.1.49    4 months ago

No, it does not.  Both of your sentences are false.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Freshman Guide
1.1.57  Right Down the Center  replied to  bbl-1 @1.1.56    4 months ago

Yes, it does.  Both my statements are true even if you don't like them.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.58  Tessylo  replied to  bbl-1 @1.1.56    4 months ago

"No, it does not.  Both of your sentences are false."

You're correct bbl-1.  

They are both false.  

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
1.2  Kavika   replied to  JohnRussell @1    4 months ago

I doubt if they give a shit that for decades they made children of color feel a lot of ''discomfort''.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.2.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Kavika @1.2    4 months ago

I wish someone on the other side would have replied to your comment Kavika. No such luck. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.2  Texan1211  replied to  Kavika @1.2    4 months ago
I doubt if they give a shit that for decades they made children of color feel a lot of ''discomfort''.

And that now justifies making other kids feel discomfort?

Good to know you weren't upset by the actions, just who it happened TO.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.2.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.2    4 months ago

I wouldn't want to be in your shoes when Kavika comes back to read your comment

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.4  Texan1211  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.2.3    4 months ago
I wouldn't want to be in your shoes when Kavika comes back to read your comment

I wouldn't bother worrying about it if I were you.

Heck, I don't worry about it.

Why don't you alert him?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.2.5  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.2.3    4 months ago

Sometimes there is no cure for ignorance. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
1.2.6  Kavika   replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.2    4 months ago
And that now justifies making other kids feel discomfort?

Did I say that, or don't you have anything of substance to say?

Did you give a shit when kids of color were made to feel a lot more than discomfort? Inane comments seem to be your forte.

Good to know you weren't upset by the actions, just who it happened TO.

Seems that you don't know much let alone what I'm thinking. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.7  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @1.2.5    4 months ago
Sometimes there is no cure for ignorance. 

The ignorance of some collective white guilt over shit that happened centuries or decades ago that no one alive had a damn thing to do with?

I agree.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.8  Texan1211  replied to  Kavika @1.2    4 months ago
I doubt if they give a shit that for decades they made children of color feel a lot of ''discomfort''.

Who is "they"?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.9  Texan1211  replied to  Kavika @1.2.6    4 months ago
Did I say that, or don't you have anything of substance to say?

Is THAT what you read in my post?

I didn't say that you said it.

Did you give a shit when kids of color were made to feel a lot more than discomfort? Inane comments seem to be your forte.

I don't want any child to made to feel discomfort. Maybe that's just the difference.

If you consider my comments inane, why bother wasting your oh-so-precious time responding? Seems stupid to me.

Seems that you don't know much let alone what I'm thinking.

I don't care much what you are thinking.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
1.2.10  Kavika   replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.9    4 months ago
I don't care much what you are thinking.

Great, but you responded to me so it seems that in your limited way you do care or you're just trolling. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.11  Texan1211  replied to  Kavika @1.2.10    4 months ago
Great, but you responded to me so it seems that in your limited way you do care or you're just trolling. 

Sometimes some progressive liberals think things that simply are not true.

 
 
 
Transyferous Rex
Freshman Quiet
1.2.12  Transyferous Rex  replied to  Kavika @1.2    4 months ago
  1. Instructional personnel may facilitate discussions and use

  2. 302  curricula to address, in an age-appropriate manner, the topics

  3. 303  of sexism, slavery, racial oppression, racial segregation, and

  4. 304  racial discrimination, including topics relating to the

  5. 305  enactment and enforcement of laws resulting in sexism, racial

  6. 306  oppression, racial segregation, and racial discrimination.

I'm not saying you are incorrect Kavika. I'm sure there are plenty of people that don't give a damn, and even prefer to sweep history under the rug. The law doesn't provide for that. The new language basically provides that teachers should not promote the idea that people should be held accountable for the sins of their fathers. I don't have a problem with that. My kids are not responsible for anything that happened before they were born. If someone can articulate a sound reason for opposing a law that prevents the teaching of an ideology that holds today's children accountable for the sins of the American past, let's hear it. If the claim is "it's not happening", then we don't have a problem. The law won't impact those that are not teaching such ideology any more than laws against drunk driving don't impact those that don't drink and drive. 

Like most articles, the writer fails to cite the Senate Bill by number. That would be an easy thing to do. This is an internet article. How difficult is it to include a direct link to the text of the bill? That's not on you or JR, it's just an observation. This is the world we live in. Some writer offers their opinion on the text of something, without offering the text that is the subject of the opinion. 

“At no point did anyone say white people should be held responsible for what happened, but what I would ask my white counterparts is, are you an enabler of what happened or are you going to say we must talk about history?”

The writer quotes Senator Jones. Apparently, in Jones' eyes, you either talk about history or you are an enabler. I'm not sure Sen. Jones read the entirety of the text either. Clearly, the above excerpt from the bill provides for the teaching and discussion of history; specifically slavery, segregation, discrimination, etc. So, looking at the bill, on the whole, I really am left wondering why such a fight is being put forth. Sen. Jones clearly is ignoring the language that promotes the teaching of history, and is focusing on the text that prevents the teaching of an ideology that would label or accuse current students as racism, based on the acts of their forefathers. The logical conclusion is this. Sen. Jones, himself, isn't interested in teaching history, because the bill expressly says to get after it. He is against the bill, because it would not allow the demeaning of white students because of America's admitted racist past. 

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.2.13  bugsy  replied to  Kavika @1.2    4 months ago
they

Whom is this "they" you are talking about.

Be specific and not generalities and tell us who exactly on here you feel are part of the "they" you are imagining.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
1.2.14  Krishna  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.2    4 months ago

Ok Texan-- Prove it!!

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.2.15  bugsy  replied to  Krishna @1.2.14    4 months ago

Still waiting on you to prove what you claimed.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
1.2.16  Krishna  replied to  bugsy @1.2.15    4 months ago

And we all are waitin' on you!

(Have you ever considered how¹ much discomfort you may possibly be causing some of the people here!)

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.17  Texan1211  replied to  Krishna @1.2.14    4 months ago
Ok Texan-- Prove it!!

What do you need me to prove to you now?

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.2.18  bugsy  replied to  Krishna @1.2.16    4 months ago
Have you ever considered how¹ much discomfort you may possibly be causing some of the people here!

Nope...sure haven't

Why?  Because I don't care.

Now, you made the claim, so answer the question

Who is this "they" you are accusing on here?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
1.3  Nerm_L  replied to  JohnRussell @1    4 months ago
Of course. This is what the CRT brouha has always been all about. 

The CRT brouhaha is all about minority rule.  The Black population accounts for 13 pct of the US population.  And the only reason the Black population is that large a percentage is because of immigration.

Democrats cannot win national elections if support of Black voters softens.  If the Black voting block becomes divided, as is the Hispanic voting block, then the Democratic Party as it current is cannot remain competitive.  The Democratic Party would be forced to focus more attention on the predominant voting population which is white.

The CRT brouhaha is really about unifying the Black voting block and maintaining minority control over the Democratic Party.  If the Democratic Party has to focus more attention on the predominant white population to win elections then the Black population loses a lot of political influence.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
1.4  Krishna  replied to  JohnRussell @1    4 months ago

The "brouhaha"?

Brouhaha?

Haha!

(Well at least its a brouhaha and not a kerfuffle!)

 
 
 
Gsquared
Junior Principal
2  Gsquared    4 months ago

This bill is just another example of the insanity coming out of the Republican Party.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
3  bbl-1    4 months ago

Being a 'white guy' and a Vietnam veteran, I am amused by how this 'new conservatism' upsets and makes afraid some white folk.  If one's past is troubling, just don't do that anymore.

As far as Florida, the GOP needs the white vote and the more afraid the GOP can make the white folk feel, perhaps the white folk will turn out to vote for the GOP, again. 

DeSantis is on a roll.  Move aside Trump, your schtick has lost its stickiness and the reruns are boring.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
4  Tacos!    4 months ago
They asked, without success, for real-life examples of teachers or businesses telling students or employees that they are racist because of their race.

Again we see that most of the fight against CRT is a fight against a problem that doesn’t exist. You’re still going to teach about 3/5 Compromise, Slavery, Civil War, Jim Crow, and Civil Rights, and racism generally. I don’t know how you’re supposed to control how white kids “feel” about all that.

I personally think they should feel those things are dark spots in our history that conflict with our stated ideals. They should also be able to see how those racist traditions influenced law and policy without any mention of CRT. The 3/5 Compromise, and the multiple “compromises” related to slavery in the first half of the 19th century are obvious examples. There are more, of course. The struggles with Reconstruction, Jim Crow, the rise of the Klan, segregated military and on and on.

They should also come to realize that these issues of racism in our past influence modern race relations today. Why wouldn’t they? That doesn’t require a radical approach to history. It’s just common sense.

The same is true of how other racial minorities, indigenous people, and women have been treated in our history.

However, I have never had a teacher try to convince me or my kids that I or they were personally responsible for any of it.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
4.1  Jack_TX  replied to  Tacos! @4    4 months ago
Again we see that most of the fight against CRT is a fight against a problem that doesn’t exist.

No, it does.

However, I have never had a teacher try to convince me or my kids that I or they were personally responsible for any of it.

OK...that's you.  That's your story and I don't doubt you for one minute.  But what about the kids who have been told that?

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
4.1.1  Tacos!  replied to  Jack_TX @4.1    4 months ago
But what about the kids who have been told that?

If that’s actually happening - if a white kid is being directly and explicitly shamed for being white, it doesn’t require political action. What’s required is that Mom and Dad march into school and tell the teacher to go fuck herself. But honestly, that’s not even what CRT is about. Any teacher who does that isn’t teaching CRT. They’re just an asshole.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
4.1.2  Jack_TX  replied to  Tacos! @4.1.1    4 months ago
If that’s actually happening - if a white kid is being directly and explicitly shamed for being white, it doesn’t require political action. What’s required is that Mom and Dad march into school and tell the teacher to go fuck herself.

I'm not sure that helps.  Keep in mind, the people that preach this bullshit are borderline insane.   They actually equate "you're not allowed to tell a 7-year-old he's racist because he's white" to "you're not allowed to teach about slavery".  So you're just going to get the same litany of well-rehearsed batshit insane responses we get right here on NT.

But honestly, that’s not even what CRT is about. Any teacher who does that isn’t teaching CRT. They’re just an asshole.

CRT is simply the nickname people are giving the concept.  Kinda like when they talk about "the 1%".  They don't really mean the actual 1%, which probably includes their dentist.  They're using an incorrect name to encapsulate an idea because somebody misused it originally and it caught on.

That's why every single law or exec order I've read on the topic has a very broad description of the racist ideas that have no business in any school. The funniest part about it all is that in 1965, Dr. King would have been thrilled to have any of these laws.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
4.1.3  Tacos!  replied to  Jack_TX @4.1.2    4 months ago
CRT is simply the nickname people are giving the concept. Kinda like when they talk about "the 1%".

I think that’s a smart observation. The imprecise labels that people attach to ideas often become a huge distraction in what could have been a productive conversation. “Black Lives Matter” and “Defund the Police” create similar issues.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
4.1.4  Jack_TX  replied to  Tacos! @4.1.3    4 months ago
“Black Lives Matter” and “Defund the Police” create similar issues.

Exactly.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
4.1.5  Krishna  replied to  Jack_TX @4.1    4 months ago

Prove it!

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
4.1.6  Jack_TX  replied to  Krishna @4.1.5    4 months ago
Prove it!

3.6 million teachers in America and you're really questioning whether or not a few of them are crazy enough to say "all white people are racist"?  Seriously? 

So...you understand that every year a couple dozen or so American teachers actually have sex with students...but you don't imagine absolutely any of them would ever voice a strong leftist view about white people being racist?  Really?  

OK then.  This one took about 3 seconds to find.

It has actually happened to my kid.  Personally, I'm not outraged or anything, but it shouldn't be happening.

Two of my friends have bragged publicly about teaching how white people "have to work not to be racist" while they were in the throws of their George Floyd liberal guilt fits.  In true white liberal guilt fashion, they got over that a long time ago and have gone back to not giving a shit about black people.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Tacos! @4    4 months ago

Well, said, Tacos. Schools don't need CRT but what they should do is teach critical thinking of our history

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
4.2.1  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.2    4 months ago

Well said!

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.2.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @4.2.1    4 months ago

thanks!

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
5  Sean Treacy    4 months ago

Please point to something you think should be taught, but is restricted by this law.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
5.1  Krishna  replied to  Sean Treacy @5    4 months ago

The Civil War.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  Krishna @5.1    4 months ago
The Civil War.

Prove it.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
5.1.2  Krishna  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1.1    4 months ago

Ok, I withdraw my comment. There's not the slightest doubt in my mind that the Civil War occurred.

But can I prove it? Nope...

So I withdraw my comment.

And you win!

Brilliant Texan...well played.

You are absolutely brilliant-- we need more people like you on NT.(I can't hardly think of anyone else whose done so much to improve the level of discussion on this site!)

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  Krishna @5.1.2    4 months ago

You seem to have an unusual ability to misinterpret English.

Perhaps THIS may help:

Comment made:

Please point to something you think should be taught, but is restricted by this law.

Your answer:

The Civil War.

My comment:

Prove it.

As those folks well-versed in the English language can easily tell, my request was to prove the Civil War is being restricted from being taught by this law.

I was simply asking you to prove your claim that the Civil War was prevented from being taught in school because of the law.

Not that the Civil War occurred.

SMMFH

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
5.1.4  Ronin2  replied to  Krishna @5.1    4 months ago

You really think they are restricted on teaching about the Civil War?

Please point out the exact words in the bill that prevents it.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  Ronin2 @5.1.4    4 months ago

You'll be waiting forever for that to happen.

This is the problem--way too many liberals haven't ever bothered to read these laws they bitch about, but try to talk about that which they have no knowledge of.

They have lied so often and for so long about laws they have actually started to believe what they invented.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
5.1.6  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Ronin2 @5.1.4    4 months ago

That's funny, my 11 year old granddaughter had to do a paper on the Battle of Gettysburg for her 5th grade class history assignment last month. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.1.7  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @5.1.6    4 months ago

Has she ever been there? I've lived in PA nearly all my life and grew up  about 2 hours from Gettysburg...but never went there. But I can tell you about all the civil war battle sites in Virginia

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
5.1.8  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.1.7    4 months ago

No she has not. We are all Arizona desert rats. My in laws were from PA someplace outside of Oil City.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.1.9  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @5.1.8    4 months ago

I have been to Oil City. My dad liked to take road trips with the dog and he would just start driving. We ended up in Oil City one day. It's only about 3 hours (?) from where I grew up

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
5.1.10  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.1.9    4 months ago

Are you talking about the one in Venango County or the other one? My in laws were from what they described as a little holler called Tenmile Bottoms in the Venango one. Apparently it was just a tiny unincorporated town.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.1.11  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @5.1.10    4 months ago

Yep. Venago County. It's not far from Titusville where the first oil well was drilled

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
6  Nowhere Man    4 months ago
“At no point did anyone say white people should be held responsible for what happened, but what I would ask my white counterparts is, are you an enabler of what happened or are you going to say we must talk about history?

He's already judged them, so there is no answer worth giving... (and only one he will accept)

 
 
 
Duck Hawk
Freshman Silent
7  Duck Hawk    4 months ago

Oh no! the Feelings Police have arrived. (Along with the Voting Police, what's next FL?)

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
7.1  JBB  replied to  Duck Hawk @7    4 months ago

original

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
8  Greg Jones    4 months ago

Lefties once again in full deflection and denial about their racist past...and present. 

Schools should be teaching far less irrelevant history and concentrate on the essential subjects

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
8.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Greg Jones @8    4 months ago
efties once again in full deflection and denial about their racist past...and present. 

I'd be happy if they could actually form a relevant  criticism.  They just make up what they want the bill to say and then argue against their imagination.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
8.1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Sean Treacy @8.1    4 months ago

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
8.1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sean Treacy @8.1    4 months ago

Oh, bullshit, Sean. I copied this from the seed:

The bill reads in part, “An individual, by virtue of his or her race or sex, does not bear responsibility for actions committed in the past by other members of the same race or sex. An individual should not be made to feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race.”

I agree that what happened 150 years ago is not the fault of anyone alive today. And nobody should be made to feel guilty. But if they do, isn't that their problem? History should be taught the way it happened. That includes the rainbows and the warts. There are so many great things about this country, but there are also so many not so great things. And the not-so-great needs to be taught with a critical eye.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
8.1.3  Sean Treacy  replied to  Trout Giggles @8.1.2    4 months ago
nd nobody should be made to feel guilty. But if they do, isn't that their problem?

Yes, of course.  That's the entire point of this bill and others like.

There's a difference between teaching what happened, and teaching that as a member of a race, a student should feel guilty or bears responsibility over what members of their race did.

 And the not-so-great needs to be taught with a critical eye.

I don't know anyone who disputes that. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.4  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @8.1.3    4 months ago
There's a difference between teaching what happened, and teaching that as a member of a race, a student should feel guilty or bears responsibility over what members of their race did.

If no one is made even slightly "uncomfortable", what are they learning?  It would just be words on a page. Racism didnt just appear magically for 400 years, it was created by white people. 

I can understand that without feeling personal guilt for it.  Why cant conservatives ? 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
8.1.5  Trout Giggles  replied to  Trout Giggles @8.1.2    4 months ago

Correction....400 years ago

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
8.1.6  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.4    4 months ago
de even slightly "uncomfortable", what are they learning

Again, a student can feel uncomfortable.  They can't be told how they should feel. 

There's the  distinction.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
8.1.7  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.4    4 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.1.8  Tessylo  replied to  Greg Jones @8.1.7    4 months ago

271872100_1992680017580563_8058306226055865797_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=RgzLEtRFIRMAX8w7OMA&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=00_AT-g81h0TBjrkCwOs7-xF3mRLGNUQ7venBnFL9WU9FV-Vw&oe=61EDE5C4

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
8.1.9  Krishna  replied to  Sean Treacy @8.1.3    4 months ago

I do!

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
8.1.10  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.4    4 months ago
it was created by white people. 

Show your proof that slavery was started by white people.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
8.1.11  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.4    4 months ago
I can understand that without feeling personal guilt for it.

I encourage you to demonstrate that.  Even once.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.12  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Jack_TX @8.1.11    4 months ago

You have never seen me express personal guilt over racism. I have no idea where you came up with that. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
8.1.13  Trout Giggles  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.12    4 months ago

What is with the straw men being created around here? Is somebody planning a bonfire?

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
8.1.14  bugsy  replied to  bugsy @8.1.10    4 months ago

Well to quote someone who thinks they are important on here....

The silence ensues.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
8.1.15  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.12    4 months ago
You have never seen me express personal guilt over racism. I have no idea where you came up with that. 

So you just demand everybody ELSE feel guilt about it.... when you don't??? 

I didn't realize you were that hypocritical.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.16  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Jack_TX @8.1.15    4 months ago

I've never suggested that anyone should feel personal guilt over what happened a hundred or two hundred years ago. You and the other conservatives here are the ones who make it a personal issue.  People of color have not been treated fairly in this country. If we are not going to put the responsibility on whites who are we going to put it on? I assume your answer is "no one".  That would be historically dishonest. 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
8.1.17  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  bugsy @8.1.10    4 months ago

One would have to go back to the beginning of recorded history or beyond for that because slavery, in one form or another, has been around that long. I wish them luck with that.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Expert
9  Hal A. Lujah    4 months ago

Perhaps all students should receive a trophy for attending the racism-free history classes, to further ensure their comfort.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Expert
9.1  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @9    4 months ago

You want a medal just for being a white boy

- Carsie Blanton

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Freshman Guide
10  Right Down the Center    4 months ago

It is more than a little amusing that the party that wants college campuses to have a safe space for every group known to man and they protest having a conservative speaking on campus even if they don't have to attend it are the same people that are all for force feeding 8 year old kids propaganda so they feel guilty about something they and their parents had nothing to do with.  

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
11  Sean Treacy    4 months ago

You notice the law doesn't say anything about shielding "white people?"

One can only wonder what motivated the AP to insert that in the story and headline.

 
 

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