The Republicans Are A Party Of Traitors
Less than a week ago , Republican Arizona Speaker of the House "Rusty" Bowers was detailing for the nation (at the Jan 6th hearings) how then President Donald Trump tried to persuade Bowers to manipulate the election in Arizona and have Trump declared the winner.
Bowers went on to talk about the threats made against himself and his family by MAGA fanatics. He described himself as a deep believer in God and country who could not violate his oath to the Constitution for Donald Trump, or anyone.
Less than a week after this stirring testimony , Bowers told a tv interviewer that he would vote for Trump in 2024 if the choice was between Trump and a Democrat Bowers doesnt approve of, such as Joe Biden.
Trump is a proven traitor , and so is anyone who says he or she would vote for him in 2024.
Not harsh, just the truth.
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Even now, Arizona’s Rusty Bowers would still vote for Trump (msnbc.com)
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Inflation, border issues, and antifa protests are transitory things , one day soon they will be gone from memory.
An attempt to steal the presidential election will be stain on this country forever.
Only for 2 years. The dems can't won't stop it and the GOP doesn't want to, American Democracy is dead in 2024.
Fucking called it before Bill Maher. He got 2020, but I got this one.
The dems. can't/won't.
I'm sick of hearing that shit.
A year and a half later most Americans have moved on. Doesn't sound like such a big stain. But keep screaming to the sky that this is huuuuge.
The attempted overthrow of our democratically elected government doesn't sound like much to you?
That would be like me asking if killing children is OK with you?
Except that I have never made a comment indicating killing children is not such a big deal, unlike you and the insurrection.
That's a pretty harsh condemnation of the democratic party's behavior the last twenty plus years.
But objecting to presidential elections, claiming voting machines are rigged, claiming the other party engaged in a coup, claiming elections have been stolen etc....sure does undermine democracy.
Complete nonsense, especially when contrasted to Trump's utterly criminal behavior.
Keep going Sean , maybe one day you will talk yourself into believing that crap.
I
Watching Democrats freak out over Trump is like seeing what it would have been like if John the Baptist turned on Jesus Christ. You've spent 25 years paving the way for him, and than act surprised when he follows your lead. Everything I wrote is of course true. Trump simply parroted the things he's seen the Democrats do every time they lose.
What's amazing is the total lack of self awareness of so many Democrats. It's like they have some sort of button that permits them to ignore what they've done and incredibly indignant when those same tactics are used against them. The time to demonstrate outrage over these behaviors is when your side engaged in them. When Democratic members objected to certifying Presidential elections (3 times, no less) where were you? Where was your condemnation of the Democrats in Congress who claimed the Republicans committed a coup d'etat by winning an election? Where was your outrage when Democrats repeatedly called elections stolen? How can you sit passively by when election deniers are promoted and prosper in your party and then somehow be outraged when Republicans do the same?
Look in the mirror if you want to know why the J6 committee flopped and so many believe the 2020 election was rigged. Democrats have been telling Americans for literal decades that the elections are illegitimate, voting machines are rigged and that results can't be trusted. And you have the temerity to act outraged that people believe you.
Like a good far right soldier , you continue to try and make these insane comparisons. You are on the verge of becoming a hopeless case.
No John, I'm just capable of some self awareness.
Donald Trump could easily become the GOP nominee in 2024. He doesnt have to be extremely popular with Republican primary voters, just more popular than any of the other candidates. This is highly likely.
Then the mass of Republican voters would have to decide between Trump and the Democrat. Like Bowers, we have seen many Republican officials, and rank and file , say they would "have to" vote for Trump.
Given the evidence of Trump's criminal behavior, voting for him again should be unthinkable. Unthinkable means never.
Tell you what, put up Manchin, Sinema, or Gabbard then you might be on to something.
Whether or not ANYONE should ever vote for Donald Trump again is a separate question than who the Democrats might nominate in 2024. The idea that someone will be forced to vote for Trump because the Dem candidate is so-and-so is absurd. If someone wants, they can skip the top line on the ballot completely. If you vote for Trump in 2024 after the avalanche of evidence that he is a traitor, then you are too.
Sorry, its not a separate question, if the D's keep putting up candidates that the R's can't find politically palatable, then if Trump ends up being the nominee then, I guess I will be considered a traitor. If my non vote or third party vote gives Biden the win or whoever continues his policies the win, then I would rather be a traitor.
Okay, we will consider you a traitor in waiting.
If the R's put up someone else instead of Trump, would you still consider me a traitor?
I already gave you the ones I could go for if the D's would nominate them to run against Trump, so in kind could you vote for the R's candidate if it's not Trump?
The Jan 6th committee has proven , beyond a shadow of a doubt , that Trump wanted to steal the 2020 election. The only remaining question is whether Republican voters will vote for him in 2024, in primaries or the general election, anyway.
At what point will enough be enough?
If you cant vote for Biden then don't, but dont vote then for Trump either.
Now that is a very important question.
False equivalency. I can justify not voting for any Republican, but you cant justify voting for Trump.
If Amy Kloubachar was a criminal who tried to overthrow the US government, I could not vote for her. That is not the case though.
Not really. The "question" posed by this article, is should ANYONE vote for Trump ever again, for any reason, not who the Democratic or other Republican candidates might be.
Read again what he just asked you John. He asked, in effect, if voting for an R other Trump was traitorous.
The article is not about anyone else. It is about people who say they will vote for Trump if they "have to".
I see; you refuse to answer bccrane's question and your reason is that it is not the question asked by the article.
My answer to his question is: 'of course voting for an R other than Trump does not make one a traitor'. Assuming of course that the nominee is what we would consider normal.
I can also justify voting for the R's candidate because of policies I agree with and if the D's continue with their policies via Biden, Hillary, or anyone of like mind I will vote for the R's candidate even if it happens to be Trump just to be sure the D's policies don't have a chance.
What I'm seeing from you and the j6 commission is the shaming of the R's, you're portraying, in this case, anyone that has no choice once the nomination is complete as being a traitor if Trump gets the nod even though I would be voting policies. Shame on me, shame, shame.
the headline leads one to believe all Republicans are traitors
We get you loud and clear. You would vote a proven traitor back in office. At least I give you credit for not denying it.
no, only those who say they will vote for trump in '24 if they "have to".
read the damn headline.
Republicans Are A Party Of Traitors
Thank you.
How could you even consider voting Trump into a position of power, much less the presidency??
What must someone do to disqualify themselves from holding the most powerful and influential office on the planet?
Its an irrelevant question in the context of this discussion. If I wanted to have a discussion about what other Republicans might get the nomination then that is what I would have brought up.
Rusty Bowers didnt mention other possible GOP candidates, he said he will vote for Trump in '24 if Trump is the nominee and if he doesnt like the Dem candidate.
Policies. I tell you what, help by also voting for Trump, this is the logic I used in 2016, since Trump is so corrupt and, as JR puts it, traitorous if, per chance, Trump wins there should be no problem impeaching him and let the VP take over. I have never voted for Trump yet. 2016 primary, Cruz, 2016 general, Pence against Hillary (Trump occupied the same box), 2020 primary, Bernie, and 2020 general, against Biden. The 2024 other than Trump and 2024 general, if Trump, then the VP, unless D's put up someone palatable policy wise.
Ridiculous.
This kind of response makes no sense. There are plenty of people who would, as PotUS, execute "Trump's policies"; his policies were, after all, GoP policies.
Knowingly voting for PotUS someone who has so clearly demonstrated via his Big Lie campaign that his ego alone is more important to him than the good of the nation is irrational, irresponsible and unpatriotic.
How is that "ridiculous", what was being bandied about at the time, Trump was running as a publicity stunt, if he wins he'll step aside, the EC will abandon him, he'll be impeached before he is even sworn in, he'll be impeached in his first year, etc. etc., so the only one I could vote for that would give the best chance for a Hillary loss was Pence.
Like I said, the 2024 primaries (I see I forgot the word primaries above in 2.1.21) other than Trump, and yet you want me to abandon the GOP policies if Trump does end up being the candidate, that just makes no sense.
Big Lie campaign
Yes that does really bother me that he and so many others were so gullible as to fall for the deception that culminated in J6.
What is ridiculous it the left's continual support for the corrupt, vile, POS, Clintons. They are everything Trump is and more.
Funny how all of the foreign funds the Clinton Foundation received dried up after she lost the Presidency. No play, then no damn pay!
No, bccrane, I stated that nobody should ever give Trump the opportunity to hold a position of public power, much less the presidency.
Vote for someone who would support the policies you seek.
'He'? You mean Trump? If that is who you are referring to then Trump did not fall for any deception, he engineered the deception.
What BC Crane is basically saying is that nothing could persuade him against voting for Trump if Trump is the 2024 nominee.
If the fact that Trump is a traitor couldnt dissuade him nothing will.
We dont need to compromise with this attitude, we need to defeat it.
Indeed.
Sound reasoning. Amazing how partisan politics distorts critical thinking, ethics, etc.
Non sequitur ... where does this come from?
May I interject? In light of the lies, deceptions, and omissions deployed by some conservatives to get "change agents" on the SCOTUS where we see girls and women privacy rights (and soon potentially to have a major effect on other groups of citizen rights and privileges) being stripped away, how much trust are you willing to allow another republican in the Trump-inflicted wing of republican politics?
I have to disagree as to who engineered the deception, Trump, Lindell, Qanon conspiracy threorists were all chasing squirrels let loose as a distraction. Take for instance the video, in Georgia, of the person pulling the box of ballots from under the table after the republicans had left the room, what was your first impression when seeing that video, since you didn't want Trump to win, your reaction was most likely "Oh crap" the democrats were caught cheating, but you were then relieved that the ballots in that box were all legit and that was the end of it. Now did you ever stop to think why go through all that when the ballots were legit and place a box under a table where a camera is known to be trained on it only to pull it out after the republicans were asked to leave the room? The only thing I can think of is it was to sow the seeds of mistrust in the ballot counting system.
Maybe Democrats getting rid of the filibuster was a really bad idea. Democrats are victims of their own success.
Gasp, you're back with the usual whataboutism dodge. I know that is what some conservatives call themselves doing as if it give them any credibility (it does not) but, I won't waste time on that old canard.
What old canard is that?
Cause and effect is not 'whataboutism'. Democrats really did eliminate the filibuster. Now Democrats are upset because Republicans played by the rules Democrats created?
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It is an overused tactic. The rules are changed for cause and some conservatives then use moral relativism to say they can change rules to effect a greater harm on society. It's bogus, and you know it. But, go ahead play not to understand and inept at distinguishing differences in relatives and absolutes. That is, Trash the capitol (again) or trash the White House (even) all in the name of moral relativism and see if you can get away with doing so.
Just throwing crap (and canards) at the wall hoping something sticks is an overused tactic, too. Democrats changed the game; the old rules don't apply any longer.
What does 'trash the Capitol' have to do with SCOTUS nominations and confirmations? What does 'trash the Capitol' have to do with the Senate filibuster? Tossing that canard (as a moral relativism) won't stick to this wall.
It an example of attempts at moral relativism. Some conservatives tried to convey meaning that if liberals upset over men being shot down in the streets confront police who do the shootings and in the process the protest turn violent, there is license given to conservatives to stop a constitutional proceeding in the nation's capitol over a "trumped-up" lack of evidence circumstance that ends only when people die on the capitol grounds or some such thing.
In case of SCOTUS, allowing a president to be able to bypass stalling by a power player like Minority Leader Mitch McConnell who literally planted his minority members as a no to allowing some federal judges passed in a four year presidency is not the equivalent of manipulation of the rules and turning the SCOTUS into a farce because of gamesmanship.
As you can now see, the SCOTUS is in a 'hot-bed' of politics and their 'cred' has bottomed out.
Amazing. You actually are attempting to argue that Trump was not the driving force (the engineer, the cheerleader, ...) behind his Big Lie campaign.
It is bizarre enough when people dismiss Trump's actions, but to go one step further and argue that Trump was simply duped is quite fascinating (and disappointing).
Note: by your reasoning, Trump is still duped; he still does not know that his allegations are total bullshit.
They addressed that scenario last week in the hearings. You should watch them.
"Rusty" Bowers had the integrity and the balls to refuse Trump's attempt to steal Arizona's electoral votes.
The Retrumplican traitors threatened to kill Bowers for being a TRUE patriot.
Now the Trumpanzees are talking about starting another Civil War.
Retrumplicans are antiAmerican terrorists.
I still am shaking my head over that. For a man who spoke of and acted on principle, how is it that he cannot see the profound contradiction in even considering Trump for PotUS? Really, a guy who tried to coerce you to violate your oath of office and engage in something that is unquestionably wrong, and you would actually vote for this abysmal character to assume the presidency??
Our govrnment is doomed in 2024. We had a good run though.
The historical trend supports your hypothesis. I hold out hope that we can reverse this trend.
IMO his more recent statement cancels out the whole consideration of integrity that is raised by the previous one. Had he said he would rather vote for an independant or leave the top ballot line blank he could have avoided being considered a hypocrite.
It is all about who gets to hand out the candy.
Bowers is only pointing out the current state of politics in the United States. Presidential elections have become an exercise in choosing the lesser of two evils. And the futility of voting for a 'better' candidate has metastasized to Congressional elections.
The bottom line is that the political parties are no longer serving the country. If the political parties force voters to choose between Biden and Trump (or between Clinton and Trump) then the entire exercise has become worthless.
Trump with all his glaring faults and character flaws did not wreck the country. Biden, in spite of his likeable character, has screwed up everything. The country's problems were being addressed under Trump. Biden has allowed those problems to grow unchecked and has created new problems.
Voters aren't electing a national spokesman. Voters aren't electing a Pope. Voters are electing someone to manage executive government for the benefit of the country. Results matter. And the results were better under Trump than they have been under Biden. So, it shouldn't surprise anyone that Trump might be viewed as the lesser of two evils.
Political discourse and quality of governance won't be improved by the two parties scraping the bottom of the barrel for every election.