The Sad, Pathetic Spectacle of John Kelly's Critics
By: Sarah Longwell
At this stage, Trump support is sick.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Trump's sycophants want us to trust them over our own eyes and ears.
WHEN GEN. JOHN KELLY WENT PUBLIC about Trump's praise for Hitler and his fears about a dictatorial second Trump term, he joined a growing list of former Trump officials ringing the alarm.
He also sparked what has become a pathetic if not predictable pattern, in which a chorus of Trump sycophants obediently rush forward to explain away the alarming revelation and impugn the witness's credibility.
Here's reliable Trump lickspittle Scott Jennings telling us that Kelly probably made the whole thing up and that the real Hitlers are on college campuses. Trump apologist Ryan James Girdusky said, "I, honest to God, like most Americans, do not care about Gen. Kelly's farewell tour."
Brian Kilmeade on Fox and Friends said of Trump's praise for Nazi generals: "I can absolutely see him go, 'It'd be great to have German generals that actually do what we ask them to do,' maybe not fully being cognizant of the third rail of German generals who were Nazis, or whatever." (Not a parody.)
Trump confidante Mike Davis called Kelly "Gen. Christine Blasey Ford"—get it? Chris Sununu is unbothered: "We've heard a lot of extreme things from Donald Trump. With a guy like that, it's kinda baked into the vote." Sen. Bill Hagerty, on CNN, downplayed the entire revelation as a matter of personal dispute between two men. Kelly and Trump, he said, "were not a good fit."
There is something deeply pernicious to this routine. These people want you to forget the cumulative weight of the accusations against Trump, especially when those accusations are coming from his own former employees—many of them high-ranking military officers. They're doing so not because they don't believe the accusations but because they know how harmful they could be.
You know how we know this? Because the claims of Kelly and others are backed up by what we've seen with our own eyes over the last nine years.
Are we supposed to be skeptical that Trump called soldiers "suckers" and "losers" when he said as much out loud about John McCain?
Are we supposed to be skeptical that he praised Hitler's generals when he admires dictators, dined with white supremacist Nick Fuentes, calls people "vermin," and talks about immigrants "poisoning the blood" of America?
Are we supposed to believe he bears no responsibility for January 6th when we all watched him summon a mob and sic it on the Capitol?
Are we supposed to believe that this is all about some personal tiff between Kelly and Trump when so many others have so many similar accounts?
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When Trump's former vice president, Mike Pence, told us that "the American people deserve to know that President Trump asked me to put him over my oath to the Constitution" on January 6th?
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When James Mattis said Trump's "use of the presidency to destroy trust in our election and to poison our respect for fellow citizens has been enabled by pseudo political leaders whose names will live in infamy as profiles in cowardice"?
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When Mark Esper said Trump was "unfit for office," and put "himself before country"?
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When John Bolton warned that "this will be a retribution presidency"?
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When Ty Cobb said Trump's "conduct and mere existence have hastened the demise of democracy and of the nation"?
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When Mark Milley called Trump "fascist to the core" and "the most dangerous person to this country"?
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When Bill Barr said Trump "shouldn't be anywhere near the Oval Office"?
I have another idea: Why don't we accept the obvious truth that is staring us in the face? Trump is dangerous and unfit and all the responsible people who served in his last term have told us as much.
KELLY HAD BEEN RELUCTANT to speak publicly about his assessment of Trump. Previously, he said that speaking out against his former boss wouldn't even get "a half a day's bounce." Trump's apologists are trying to prove him right. We shouldn't let them.
Kelly did the right thing. But it's not enough. These messages need to reach people where they are, especially disengaged voters—not because they aren't politically potent (they are) but because they fundamentally matter.
When someone of Kelly's stature and proximity to Trump says the ex-president is a fascist and praised Hitler's generals, it should send a great chill through our body politic. If this becomes a half-a-day story, it will be an indictment on all of us.
We are now in the home stretch. Millions of voters are—right this moment—making up their minds. This is the time when elections are won or lost. Those other former officials now have an obligation to do what Kelly has: come forward and offer their candid assessments of Trump.
They should do so not just to defend Kelly but to make a larger point: that we can, should, and must be honest about the threat Trump poses.
Trump's defenders want us to doubt what we have seen with our own eyes and heard with our own ears. They want us to treat a White House chief of staff confirming that the former president praised Hitler and called members of the military "suckers and losers" as just another bit of campaign fodder—not evidence of something fundamentally rotten at the core of their movement. If we allow that to happen, it will be a stain on our politics akin to electing Trump himself.
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Exactly what we observe.
No matter how many top Republicans —who have worked with Trump directly— warn us of this scoundrel, the Trump sycophants continue in the cultish behavior of trying to defend Trump no matter what.
I'm not too concerned. america practically invented the most effective and permanent method of dealing with fascism 80+ years ago.
Whatever happened to the neutron bomb?
My concern is not that Trump is a fascist but that no matter what is revealed about this abysmal character, half of the nation seems to want this scoundrel for PotUS. It is sick.
that is surely more meaningful than most people want to admit
Retired in 1992, last one dismantled in 96.
The inevitable conclusion is that that half of the population actually wants a fascist dictatorship. They want systemic racism and misogyny (because they're White and male). They want law enforcement to be above the law (because it's those "others" who break the law).
What they'll get is serfdom in a fascist plutocracy, but hey!
they just say that because they're liars supporting a liar, and all is fun and forgiven when rattling the libs...
I'm convinced that the majority of that nonsense is just the desire to be contrarian to "the libs". rebelling like their hero and going against the mainstream without down line risk. I think only a small fraction of traditional republican voters actually believes the maga bullshit. I think they can tell right from wrong and also know the chaos another trump presidency will cause and how it will adversely affect their lives and finances.
it's just that they're fully invested emotionally and without their ideological support network, created over the last 16 years, they know if they say something out of line amongst their peers, their personal social risks of being ostracized are much greater. now they can conveniently ride the big lie all the way in to the station. they know it's a lie, they lie when they say it isn't, they know he's a liar, and no one will ever know who they really voted for. even if the election goes wrong for their side, they will be provided the scapegoat and they can lie to each other about what really happened and still keep all their friends.
what we're witnessing now are the end results of media marketing based social brainwashing and manipulation of non-critical thinkers for the last 60 years. I won't believe any polls and my gut feeling is a landslide for harris/walz and democrats most likely taking both chambers in congress. if not, I can live with the results, until I can't or won't ...
It's batshit crazy arguments like that that explain why Trump may very well win. Do you know how asinine this appears to people not in the left wing cult of the perpetually incipient fascist takeover?
Wry humor, coming from someone who thinks that progressives want to be known as the most persecuted group in human history.
Half the US population isn’t white males.
there's only one lifelong victim in the 2024 presidential race and he reminds his followers with every speech ...
My hypothesis is that Trump supporters fall into several categories:
I believe that (at best) a very tiny sliver of the electorate thinks authoritarian rule would be good for the nation. For the most part, Trump voters dismiss the idea that Trump is authoritarian. What they have in common is that they have concluded that they 'like' Trump and are stubbornly sticking with him (personality cult) no matter what with the excuse that all the negatives are falsehoods.
If they truly understood how extremely different Trump is from every other PotUS we have experienced in our lifetimes, I doubt they would support him at this level. Right off the bat, if people knew that tariffs are paid by the importer (not the nation importing) and that the taxes are passed through the US supply chain ending up with higher prices, they would recognize that Trump is horrible for the economy and will do the exact opposite of what they want.
But they do not know this (for whatever reason).
I think you are giving far too much weight to "partisanship". This about MAGA , which is a mind set or even ideology more so than it is loyalty to a party.
They have been brainwashed into an irrational belief that liberals are "communists" or perverts. If it is partisanship it is loyalty to one man not loyalty to a political party. If Trump was running as an independent this year almost all of his voters would still be with him.
And it's odd that Trump may win because his appeal has significantly increased among minorities while slightly dropping among white males.
Harris's chances of victory hinges on maintaining a slight increase in her performance among high school educated whites in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, the group of voters progressives love to hate and mock. Calling them all fascist wannabes isn't going to help.
Which group do the significant number of minorities who traditionally vote Democratic but are now supporting Trump fall into?
Gullible
Right wingers try to assassinate him.
seems they are stupid.
They couldn't get the job done
i
Does it matter whether they understand the true consequences of a Trump win? We'd get a fascist plutocracy... but they'd be happy. They wouldn't understand what's happening, any more than they understand now.
As you say, "owning the libs" is all that's important. So a Trump win would be their dream success.
They don't think beyond that.
Bubba wants to lynch without risk.
We both know that, Sean.
Your knowledge bank always impresses me.
You're an idealist. An optimist. You want to believe the best in people. That's a powerful confirmation bias. You'll necessarily find excuses for evil.
Trump is a fascist with the firm intention of transforming America into a fascist dictatorship. He says so. Very clearly. It is impossible for an observer to not understand. It requires a willful act to suppress that understanding.
But some people really do want bad shit. Bubba dreams of lynching niggers while cops laugh. He'll never say so, but he'll vote for Trump, knowing that Trump will let him realize his dream.
Perhaps some MAGAs' dreams are less monstrous than Bubba's, but they're all dreaming of an America where they can do as they please.
Wrong. That is insulting.
I don't think that saying "You try to find good in everyone" is insulting. It certainly was not intended as an insult.
I so hope you're correct. I have the same feeling. I trust YOUR gut feelings and MINE of course
Neither do I. See what I quoted.
You must be easily impressed.
If Trump is the new Hitler, why don't Dems stand up and do what's morally right?
Or perhaps you are very impressive.
Looks like a reasonable analysis TiG. Of those 5 categories what is your best guess at the percentage breakdown? I'm just thinking that if we could nail that down, perhaps we could better focus the effort to wake some folks up, impart that better recognition and understanding of the truths to which you refer.
Agreed! And that is an important factor to consider in any case.
I am not sure I can offer anything other than a ranking. For reference, here are the categories again:
I would say the most populated categories are in this order (most to least):
I think that the first two are the most populous (possibly reverse the order). The last two also might be reversed but they are the minority of Trump voters IMO. One will likely see a preponderance of the middle group on social media forums.
I was thinking about the same. So the best course of action, at least on such platforms, would be to poke holes in the bad information. In doing so, with the first two groups watching, one covers some pretty good ground. Might not get through to all, but even some is a good start.
Yup, poke holes and watch the pathetic deflection, ignoring, cherry-picking, strawman arguments, etc. ensue.
Seems to me some (too many) do not care how utterly stupid they look with their feeble/nonsensical responses, but the readers see it.
safety in numbers ...
Are you actually reading TiG's comments. He definitely has not been making excuses for the poor evil that is trmp
I didn't say that.
The former 'president' traitor is THE sad, pathetic spectacle and unfortunately the majority of the supporters/enablers/defendersoftheindefensible
The endless defense of the indefensible is indefensible
Anybody who could possibly vote for trump has to be a criminal a rapist and a serial liar voting for one of their own.
If true, our crime stats are way wrong.
Trump already identified who he scapegoats when he loses...
Your far right fascism is way wrong.
That's just your uninformed bias running away with you.
A person doesn't become a 4 star general by being petty or lying about others behavior. That person took an oath to defend the constitution against enemies foreign and domestic. Those who wore a uniform....do you remember taking that oath? Did you mean it when you took that oath? Yes? Well, guess what, so does Generals Kelly and Milley. And that's what they did. I do wish Kelly hadn't waited so long to speak up
any active duty general that exhibits partisanship is probably unsuitable for command ...
Wow, we agree on something.
Absolutely. As an airman I was encouraged to vote but I was not allowed to participate in political activities while wearing my uniform. Discussion of politics at work was verboten, also. Tho it didn't stop some from trying to turn people to Jesus
... oh yeah... (insert creepy lecherous laugh) I specialized in exploiting "religious" girls in high school ...
I've still never met one. our drive-ins always ran double features ...
General Michael Flynn comes rapidly to mind. What a 'disgrace.' He seems to think it comical to be a 'lackey' to a man: Crooked Donald.
His brother is the complete opposite.
I would love to see the military record of those demeaning General Kelly or the other generals that have spoken out on Trump.
A sad commentary that good men are disparaged by incompetents and MAGAs.
Recall Trump saying that he knows more than all Generals.
A typical statement for an insane narcissist.
A vote for Trump is a vote for Putin.
According to Trump, anybody who disrespects him, gets destroyed. At what point do folk realize that Trump is the worst person ever?
There are many who only receive certain 'right' programming for free, their interpretation of the world is molded by agenda driven actors attempting, and in many instances succeeding, in inserting many falsities that the sheep take as fact, they are all about having someone else to blame for their failings or mediamockrazy, and will never be able to fully see, when so many they should be able to trust, enable them with reinforcement via twisting of facts, misinterpretation done purposefully, and flat out and in them , LIES a major factor producing the problems we are all now stuck to deal with.
Those condemning those speaking the truth about those with first hand knowledge are the most evil of the players, for any and all should by now know who and what Trump is, and they are weak minded individuals who would fall for the bullshit needed believed, and they are and they do, indeed.
The reality has been blurred by propagandists absurd, a plight that will not go quietly, a flight that will crash, but with so many seeds planted, we will be a long time dealing with this rash, all for the pursuit of non ethical players of power and cash,
it will be quite a while before we R over with Trump Trash and the R party that allowed it.
so, i believe it might be time to start to bash the beligerant bassturds with more words truthfully spoken, as they cannot swallow that that stings, and on they'll bee chokin, chickens, need come home to roost, cause holy cow, how many more cows need to come home and get out of the bovine excremeant these scumbags daily boost, before the divided states become a sad reality, that they have been well on their way to be....
cause for fux sake, what more wood won need to see, besides Reality
meh, I'm looking forward to victimizing the new self designated victim class.
John Kelly is echoing Democrats. Donald Trump is not anti-Semitic, so he cannot be a Fascist or Hitler. John Kelly is lying his ass off. We've seen generals do that before.
Just another desperate attempt by a two-bit Republican loser to attract public attention for fun and profit. Does Kelly expect a slot in a Kamala Harris administration? At this point, Kamala Harris will have more Republicans in her cabinet than Democrats to pay off all the political debts.
We've seen the country's top spies and generals lie about and against Donald Trump for about seven years. Why would Democrats think another lying Marine general will change anything? There's a long list of Deep State bureaucrats telling all sorts of wild stories about Trump. Some may be true and some may be false but the public can't tell the difference. The only thing the public sees is a Kamala Harris desperate to obtain the approval of Republicans. What does that say about the Democratic Party?
Are you ok?
PD&D+DELUSION
Yeah, thanks for asking.
Why are you concerned?
I'd quibble with some wording, but hey!
As the chart shows, there is no (significant) far left in the US, and not much center left. There is, OTOH, a powerful far right, and a powerful center right.
This will not end well.
I'll take GEN John Kelly, GEN Jim Mattis, Mark Esper, GEN Millay, LTG McMaster, GEN McCrystal, ADM Mike Mullen, ADM Stavridis assessments over Trump supporters.
Wait a second, I thought, " Your far right fascism is way wrong ". According to our friend at 2.1.4 above.
I will take their assessments too, even though it is all just more confirmation of what we already knew. Their assessments and what we have heard straight from Trump's mouth with our own ears really should at least open our eyes to his unfitness for the office of POTUS. Hell just based on the shit that came out of his mouth in the 2016 primaries, many of us understood then his unfitness for the office and did not vote for him.
The man is a childish narcissistic prick who cares only for his own interests and approval and demands complete loyalty from those around him when he clearly doesn't deserve it. He has the sort of character that is the exact opposite of what most people would want as the leader of the free world. Chief among them are his obvious lies, gross hyperbole, name-calling, hatefulness toward his opponents, and insistence on absolute loyalty to himself and his ideology without question or rational consideration. The thing is, many of us find those to be distasteful traits regardless of who displays them or the level to which they exhibit them.
Examples of lies or gross hyperbole from this very thread:
Really? Trump is going to allow someone to be lynched while cops stand around laughing? How will he pull that off? So now it isn't just those who will vote for Trump who have to be criminals, rapists and serial liars, the box of deplorables includes those who could possibly vote for Trump? WT ever loving F?
How does one hate a man for his most vile traits and his insistence on blind loyalty to his ideology, and then turn around and display those exact same tendencies?
Beats me.