Reject Newsom’s ‘Science’ Statements: Gov’t Is Overreaching; Principled Resistance Is Necessary

  
Via:  Trump 2024  •  4 weeks ago  •  199 comments

By:   David Lane

Reject Newsom’s ‘Science’ Statements: Gov’t Is Overreaching; Principled Resistance Is Necessary
California Governor Gavin Newsom is using alleged “science” as an excuse to clamp down on liberty and religious freedom. Freedom valuing Americans — and especially Christians — have a duty, meanwhile, to respectfully but firmly resist his brewing tyranny.

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We the People

The resistance to the anti science edicts and demands of blue city mayors and blue state governors is on and we who are believers have belief supported justification for doing so.  We will not wear face diapers in areas it’s an unreasonable expectation not backed by science.  We will not lock down and hide.  We won’t close our schools or churches.  We will assemble in reopen the economy, back the blue, pro Trump events and outdoor worship events no matter the degree of Karen opposition.  Especially when they let BLM and women’s marches out.  The resistance to unreasonable restrictions to our constitutional freedoms is just beginning! 


S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



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Surge Summary: California Governor Gavin Newsom is using alleged “science” as an excuse to clamp down on liberty and religious freedom. Freedom valuing Americans — and especially Christians — have a duty, meanwhile, to respectfully but firmly resist his brewing tyranny. 

by David Lane

California Gov. Gavin Newsom labeled churches as “nonessential” in his startlingly alarmist edict of March 19, 2020, while arbitrarily deeming liquor stores, marijuana dispensaries, Costcos and Walmarts “essential.”

Equally high-handedly as off-handedly pronouncing that “56% of Californians—25.5 million people—could be infected with coronavirus in the next two months,” Newsom stated emphatically, “We are going to do the right thing, not judge by politics, not judge by protests, but by science.”

He evidently meant “political pseudo-science” as his reckless and vainglorious swagger into medical territory turned out to be off by no less than 98%.

No one will mistake Gov. Newsom’s foolhardy and absurdist stance in the name of science for rational wisdom or insightful foresight, but what is most objectionable about it is that such pseudo-science masquerades as genuine science.

Along with other blue state governors, Gov. Newsom’s dictates are a deplorable example of the devastating cultural and economical impact of health  scare  policies based on fallacies and factually baseless or scientifically unfounded claims.

To paraphrase 1 Samuel 17:26, we may ask: Who is this Philistine giant that he should defy the armies of the living God?

There is a thin line between compliance—the tendency of conforming with or agreeing to the commands/demands of others—and complicity, particularly when they are unjust or unjustified.

According to Daniel Dreisbach, “No question on the minds of pious Americans in the midst of a growing conflict with Great Britain”—and one could argue in the midst of the current conflict between secularism and Christianity—”was more pressing or difficult than this: ‘Do citizens ever have a right or even a duty to resist an unjust, tyrannical ruler?’   Does a civil magistrate who disregards the divinely ordained responsibilities of the office, to restate the question from the ruler’s perspective, forfeit the office and, thereby, the citizen’s duty to obey?”

The biblical texts most often cited as seemingly supporting the doctrines of compliance, unlimited submission or passive obedience and nonresistance are Romans 13:1-7 and 1 Peter 2:13-17.

The self-evident caveat in these passages is that the “governing authorities” must rule in accordance with God’s law. They must uphold divine law, protect the good and destroy the bad. Rulers who violate the law of God or whose commands are contrary to God’s law should be resisted.

Far from consenting that Romans 13:1-7 compels unlimited submission to civil authorities, congregational minister Jonathan Mayhew (1720-1766) argued that Scripture only instructs obedience to “a reasonable and just authority”—those rulers who serve the public good and fulfill the divine design of civil government.

In the words of Mayhew: “No civil rulers are to be obeyed when they enjoin things that are inconsistent with the commands of God. … All commands running counter to the declared will of the supreme legislator of heaven and earth are null and void. And therefore disobedience to them is a duty, not a crime.”

The French theologian, pastor and reformer John Calvin (1509-1564) justified defying civil rulers when obedience to the rulers compels disobedience to God. He considered those rulers to “spoil God of His right and as it were to occupy His throne.”

The New Hampshire Constitution of 1784 expressed it thus: “The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and obsession, is absurd, slavish and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.”

“For it is the will of God that by doing right you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men” (1 Pet. 2:15).

This is in line with Acts 5:29, where it says, “We must obey God rather than men.”

In Matthew 22:21b, Jesus says “Render therefore unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.”

The biblically based political concepts that became central to the American system of constitutional government included the supremacy of higher law; law as the embodiment of reason, free from human passions; the divine source of inalienable rights; the contractual basis and, thus,  limited  character of civil government; the consent of the governed as the basis of legitimate civil authority; and the right of resistance against tyrannical, unjust rulers.

Pastor Rob McCoy  (former Thousand Oaks mayor and city councilman) sent a clarion call to pastors at the  Nonessential  premiere on Oct. 18: Open California churches and put in check “tyrannical officials who have ruined our economy, closed our schools, divided our people between essential and nonessential and declared our churches as nonessential.”

Gideons and Rahabs are beginning to stand.


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MAGA
1  seeder  MAGA    4 weeks ago

In the words of Mayhew: “No civil rulers are to be obeyed when they enjoin things that are inconsistent with the commands of God. … All commands running counter to the declared will of the supreme legislator of heaven and earth are null and void. And therefore disobedience to them is a duty, not a crime.”

The French theologian, pastor and reformer John Calvin (1509-1564) justified defying civil rulers when obedience to the rulers compels disobedience to God. He considered those rulers to “spoil God of His right and as it were to occupy His throne.”

The New Hampshire Constitution of 1784 expressed it thus: “The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and obsession, is absurd, slavish and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.”

“For it is the will of God that by doing right you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men” (1 Pet. 2:15).

This is in line with Acts 5:29, where it says, “We must obey God rather than men.”

In Matthew 22:21b, Jesus says “Render therefore unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.”

The biblically based political concepts that became central to the American system of constitutional government included the supremacy of higher law; law as the embodiment of reason, free from human passions; the divine source of inalienable rights; the contractual basis and, thus,  limited  character of civil government; the consent of the governed as the basis of legitimate civil authority; and the right of resistance against tyrannical, unjust rulers.

https://thenewstalkers.com/vic-eldred/group_discuss/10894/reject-newsoms-science-statements-govt-is-overreaching-principled-resistance-is-necessary

 
 
 
MAGA
1.1  seeder  MAGA  replied to  MAGA @1    4 weeks ago

https://www.instagram.com/p/CG-QhDmJ9ha/?igshid=1alaxxvbbms74

 
 
 
CB
1.2  CB   replied to  MAGA @1    4 weeks ago

"Unjust rulers." The mere experience of the "State of Jefferson" (Shasta County, CA) aligning its congregations (but not all) with a liar, cheater, and thief like Donald Trump speaks volumes that words can not carry.

[This comment stands.  MAGA, you can't post a link to a post about Trump, then declare Trump off topic.  But you knew that already.]

 
 
 
Krishna
1.2.1  Krishna  replied to  CB @1.2    4 weeks ago

Yeo-- a bunch of total nutcases-- no doubt about it! jrSmiley_5_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
MAGA
1.2.2  seeder  MAGA  replied to  CB @1.2    4 weeks ago

We are the focal point of resistance in California to Newscum and his mandates, and not just regarding Wuhan virus.  

 
 
 
CB
1.2.3  CB   replied to  MAGA @1.2.2    4 weeks ago

It is your lives, and it's my faith too. I will defend our mutual faith against those who would manipulate it for ungodly and unseemly purposes. God has instructed the people who love to be the least selfish of mankind. Is that occurring is something to ponder!  Had God shut down and out any of God's critics where would any one of us be?

 
 
 
Dulay
1.2.4  Dulay  replied to  MAGA @1.2.2    4 weeks ago

Yes I know Xx, you and yours are resistant to everything California EXCEPT accepting STATE subsidies...

 
 
 
MAGA
1.2.5  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Dulay @1.2.4    4 weeks ago

We’d rather be our own state but as long as we have to be a part of the Californication regime, we are going to take every last red cent we can get out of them.  Our areas economy pre covid was at the national unemployment rate rather than the higher state numbers.  We were booming and the area was greatly assisted by being the home of a mega Church that has a global impact and people from all over the world move here to attend it or it’s schools and start businesses here.  

 
 
 
MAGA
1.2.6  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Krishna @1.2.1    4 weeks ago

the defiance of the governors thanksgiving rules will be total and complete....I plan on openly defying them for that meal in every way shape and form.  

 
 
 
pat wilson
1.2.7  pat wilson  replied to  MAGA @1.2.6    4 weeks ago

You usually go to Aunt Maga's Buffet in town, right ? That'll show 'em !

 
 
 
Dulay
1.2.8  Dulay  replied to  MAGA @1.2.6    4 weeks ago

Darwinian. 

 
 
 
Raven Wing
1.2.9  Raven Wing  replied to  MAGA @1.2.2    4 weeks ago
We are the focal point of resistance in California to Newscum and his mandates,

Only in your wildest 'Superman' dreams. And I can assure you that not everyone who lives in your area agrees with your wrongly imagined arrogant dreams.

 
 
 
Dulay
1.2.10  Dulay  replied to  MAGA @1.2.5    4 weeks ago

Yes, I KNOW Xx. Your cause proclaims to be all about independence and all it promotes is mooching off of the 'coastal elites'.  

Do you mean the megachurch with the big Covid outbreak earlier this month? 

Again, Darwinian. 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
1.2.11  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  MAGA @1.2.5    4 weeks ago
we are going to take every last red cent we can get out of them

You seem to think everyone else "owes" the conservatives bigots in rural CA because nobody listens to their incessant whining and bitching about the rest of the State living as they wish. It's pretty sad that some rural bigots think they can't be happy in their own neck of the woods if gays are getting married in San Francisco or LA. Just being a "home of a megachurch" isn't going to be sustainable, you should think about finding a different way to support yourselves. That shit's going to dry up faster than a dustbowl farm.

 
 
 
MAGA
1.2.12  seeder  MAGA  replied to  pat wilson @1.2.7    4 weeks ago

No.  I go to Lulu’s for a family style traditional thanksgiving food buffet/brunch.  I plan to again.  

 
 
 
MAGA
1.2.13  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Dulay @1.2.8    4 weeks ago

The despotic dictator will have no say at all as to how I and my family celebrates Thanksgiving Or Christmas.  

 
 
 
MAGA
1.2.14  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.2.11    4 weeks ago

We have industry and had a decent economy before the mega church grew so big.  Tourism will always be a key staple to sustain us with all our area has to offer.  This is the mega church I’m not a member of that has strengthened our local economy. https://www.bethel.com

 
 
 
Dulay
1.2.15  Dulay  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.2.11    4 weeks ago

But the megachurch opened their School of Supernatural Ministry which attracts thousands of bat shit crazy people from all over the world, so there's that.

Of course, there is pushback, the 'Don't drink the Kool-Aid' stickers prove that.

 
 
 
MAGA
1.2.16  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Dulay @1.2.15    4 weeks ago

They limited the student body to 2/3 normal and kept their cases insulated from the general population.  They aren’t the source of Covid fatalities here.  Two nursing homes for senior living are and that’s contained as well, thus we got the state to move us out of purple, that and that few intended to comply anyway and they didn’t want to expend the manpower to coerce.  The bottom line is that that church didn’t lead in covid compliance resistance here but simply with their 1/9th of our city population mirrored the already existing tea party/pro Jefferson outlook already here.  And yes there is an online publication A News Cafe that caters to the 25% here who are registered democrats and they’ve had an anti Bethel bias since way before the pandemic that generates what you describe.  I don’t agree with Bethel theology in key areas but I welcome them here and their support for our economy.  

 
 
 
Dulay
1.2.17  Dulay  replied to  MAGA @1.2.16    4 weeks ago

Nice word dance there Xx. Bethel sure as hell IS a source of a Covid outbreak just this month and you know damn well the people in Redding are pissed off about it. Seriously Xx, I can research this shit faster than you can post lies about it. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
2  Hal A. Lujah    4 weeks ago

We will not wear face diapers

Lol!  Using this unusual terminology would seem to imply that you fully understand what is coming out of your mouths.

 
 
 
MAGA
2.1  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2    4 weeks ago

It’s only directed at deserving progressives.  Actually the term came from a conservative cartoonist and I quickly saw how much blue City and Blue state leaders and their Karen supporters hate and loathe the term.  

 
 
 
CB
2.1.1  CB   replied to  MAGA @2.1    4 weeks ago

So this is simply provocation. Christianity be damned. Shame.

 
 
 
JBB
2.1.2  JBB  replied to  CB @2.1.1    4 weeks ago

Correct! It is all just contrarian nonsense...

 
 
 
MAGA
2.1.3  seeder  MAGA  replied to  CB @2.1.1    4 weeks ago

It’s simply a part of the resistance.  Nothing more, nothing less.  

 
 
 
cjcold
2.1.4  cjcold  replied to  MAGA @2.1    4 weeks ago

      and their Karen

It's actually non-mask wearers that are called Karens. Please get your insults straight.

 
 
 
CB
2.1.5  CB   replied to  MAGA @2.1.3    4 weeks ago

There is nothing SIMPLE about a Christian, any Christian, misrepresenting this faith! And tying the faith to an abusive carnal preacher, pastor, or leader . Check this out:

“Our doctors get more money if someone dies from Covid,” he explained. “You know that, right? Our doctors are very smart people.” He then again explained that in Germany doctors assign the cause of deaths differently before appearing to mock American medical professionals.

“With us when in doubt, choose Covid,” to which the audience laughed. “It’s true, no it’s true,” Trump insisted. “No, they’ll say ‘it’s terrible what he said,’ but it’s true. It is like $2,000 more so you get more money. This can only happen to us.”

Trump is correct in highlighting some of the consequences of a for-profit-based medical system and seems to suggest that if the United States had a health care system more like what they had in Germany, we could trust our medical professionals more.  But to blame the world’s highest mortality rate for medical professionals who are doing their best to save lives?

Source:

A Christian man would be rebuked for impugning good people fighting to save lives. Do you agree with Trump's words here or do you rebuke him here and now?

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
2.1.6  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  cjcold @2.1.4    4 weeks ago

Please get your insults straight.

Conservatives are so unimaginative that they need to steal labels now.  They also steal music from artists to pump up their unimaginative campaigns.  Ever notice how you will never hear a Kid Rock or Ted Nugent song in a Democrat campaign?  Now they are trying as hard as they can to to steal an election.  It’s not inaccurate to call Trump the Commander in Thief.

 
 
 
MAGA
2.1.7  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.6    4 weeks ago

We are going to win this election fair and square....

 
 
 
MAGA
2.1.8  seeder  MAGA  replied to  CB @2.1.5    4 weeks ago

I stand with and by President Trump because despite his flaws shared by fallen humanity he stands with us believers with his actions in office, policies, and appointments.  

 
 
 
MAGA
2.1.9  seeder  MAGA  replied to  cjcold @2.1.4    4 weeks ago

No.  Karens are the ones who go into restaurants and pour peoples drinks on their food because they are eating while not wearing a mask.  Karens are the guilt shakers who try to say or act in a way to lay guilt trips upon all who dare to presume to disagree with their masks absolutely everywhere, shutdown everything pseudoscience pseudo religion mantra/ dogma.  

 
 
 
MAGA
2.1.10  seeder  MAGA  replied to  JBB @2.1.2    4 weeks ago

We stand proud and tall contrary to the Newscums, Cuomos, and Bidens of the world and make no apologies for it.  

 
 
 
CB
2.1.12  CB   replied to  MAGA @2.1.7    4 weeks ago

Untrue.

 
 
 
CB
2.1.13  CB   replied to  MAGA @2.1.8    4 weeks ago

When did God start "paling around' around with liars, cheaters, and thieves to accomplish kingdom work? What does God have to do with Donald?

Some people must think pretty lowly of God's abilities to need Donald Trump as a 'servant.' In fact, You dodged the question:

A Christian man would be rebuked for impugning good people fighting to save lives. Do you agree with Trump's words here or do you rebuke him here and now?
 
 
 
CB
2.1.14  CB   replied to  MAGA @2.1.7    4 weeks ago

Whether "you-all" win or lose, it won't be because of respect and fair treatment of your opponents! That lie won't square with the facts or spirit of the vote!

 
 
 
IMT
2.1.15  IMT  replied to  MAGA @2.1.7    4 weeks ago

Trump intends that mail-in ballots will be rejected, that a massive, militarized response will crush widespread protests to the overthrow of the constitution, and that he will be established as the US' führer. [deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.1.16  Tessylo  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.6    4 weeks ago

He's the mobster gangster thug grifter thief CIC

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.1.17  Tessylo  replied to  MAGA @2.1.7    4 weeks ago
"We are going to win this election fair and square...."

NOT POSSIBLE

 
 
 
MAGA
2.1.18  seeder  MAGA  replied to  CB @2.1.12    4 weeks ago

Your sides leaders may well lie and cheat in order to try to win but we and our side will not.  

 
 
 
MAGA
2.1.19  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.17    4 weeks ago

It’s actually certain.  

 
 
 
CB
2.1.20  CB   replied to  MAGA @2.1.18    4 weeks ago

Well this "duck and cover" maneuver being deployed by Trump supporters is not honorable. "Salt" that has lost it savor has no recourse or remedy!

 
 
 
MAGA
2.1.21  seeder  MAGA  replied to  CB @2.1.14    4 weeks ago

I agree that the progressive left has not shown any respect for nor fair treatment of their opposition and opponents. 

 
 
 
MAGA
2.1.22  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.16    4 weeks ago

No, that is what Biden would become should he actually get into office.  

 
 
 
MAGA
2.1.23  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.17    4 weeks ago

What’s not possible is a fair and square legitimate electoral victory by Biden and his socialist party.  

 
 
 
CB
2.1.24  CB   replied to  MAGA @2.1.21    4 weeks ago

One should not mock oneself!

 
 
 
MAGA
2.1.25  seeder  MAGA  replied to  CB @2.1.24    4 weeks ago

I only mock the progressive socialist left!  

 
 
 
CB
2.1.26  CB   replied to  MAGA @2.1.25    4 weeks ago

Jesus is put to shame when this is done. The world looks on and inwardly laughs at this testimony.

 
 
 
Split Personality
2.1.27  Split Personality  replied to  MAGA @2.1.3    4 weeks ago
Nothing more, nothing less.  

Bull shit, according to you,

judge and ye will be judged.

Checkmate.

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.2  Tessylo  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2    4 weeks ago
"We will not wear face diapers" "Lol!  Using this unusual terminology would seem to imply that you fully understand what is coming out of your mouths."

Everything that falls out of their 'presidents' mouth is deserving of a 'face diaper'

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
2.2.1  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Tessylo @2.2    4 weeks ago

* and his supporters

 
 
 
MAGA
2.2.2  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Tessylo @2.2    4 weeks ago

Everything that falls out of the former VP’s mouth is deserving of a 'face diaper'

 
 
 
MAGA
2.2.3  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.2.1    4 weeks ago

* and his supporters

 
 
 
CB
3  CB     4 weeks ago

You know, no offense to Jewish people, but they will like their Old Testament back for its proper application.

 
 
 
Dulay
4  Dulay    4 weeks ago

Flap your gums all you want, the court upheld Newsome's restrictions. 

Tissue? 

 
 
 
MAGA
4.1  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Dulay @4    4 weeks ago

He’s had to modify some of them...

 
 
 
Dulay
4.1.1  Dulay  replied to  MAGA @4.1    4 weeks ago

Here we go again. Prove it Xx. 

 
 
 
CB
5  CB     4 weeks ago

And MAGA and "friends," you do realize that this is God's coronavirus sent out in the world to accomplish whatsoever work God has sent it to do, yes? In which case, it would prosper combative and obstinate people to heed the warning to listen and stand down (off to the side) and be saved from the experience of going through its pain and misery!

 
 
 
MAGA
5.1  seeder  MAGA  replied to  CB @5    4 weeks ago

https://www.instagram.com/p/CG-A8whAjdFEM072RxKQreGSDXsbInwH4F9igs0/?igshid=1mz79myhrmrka

 
 
 
CB
5.1.1  CB   replied to  MAGA @5.1    4 weeks ago

Can't see it: No thumbs! Help!

 
 
 
MAGA
5.1.2  seeder  MAGA  replied to  CB @5.1.1    4 weeks ago

Another site Instagram forced to go private.  Big tech censorship.  

https://www.instagram.com/p/CG-dRmCHCOb/?igshid=15va3zdl04ogb

 
 
 
CB
5.1.3  CB   replied to  MAGA @5.1.2    4 weeks ago

Can't do it. Fingers too short to press keys. Help!

 
 
 
CB
5.1.4  CB   replied to  MAGA @5.1.2    4 weeks ago

Y'all, like everybody else, have to abide rules and regulations. Or, do like you do take the show on the 'road' yourselves and deal with the consequences good and bad!

 
 
 
MAGA
5.1.5  seeder  MAGA  replied to  CB @5.1.1    4 weeks ago

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHA7t57lIYI/?igshid=1w3aole3mffyy

 
 
 
CB
5.1.6  CB   replied to  MAGA @5.1.5    4 weeks ago

Hands 'shot' - Help!

 
 
 
MAGA
5.1.7  seeder  MAGA  replied to  CB @5.1.4    4 weeks ago

Do you really expect that if Biden and democrats win the election and impose nationwide mandates on mask wearing everywhere outside our home and or a national lockdown that red states who had been handling things differently under federalism are going to suddenly change course and comply?  I don’t.  Biden and co. will literally have to send tanks into the streets China style to coerce compliance from us.  

 
 
 
Split Personality
5.1.8  Split Personality  replied to  MAGA @5.1.7    4 weeks ago
 I don’t.  Biden and co. will literally have to send tanks into the streets China style to coerce compliance from us.  

No they won't bother, they will probably sigh and be content to have the same attitude as the current administration

and let y'all infect one another with the expected consequences.

However they will make sure hospitals are better taken care of and more gloves will be coming

and they will keep tending to the survivors as "pre-existing conditions" will ensure equal

medical care for all Americans whether COVID infection was a result of

chance or deliberate neglect.

99% of you predictions about what a Biden Administration will or won't do

with or without Congressional approval

is just baseless conjecture.

 
 
 
CB
5.1.9  CB   replied to  MAGA @5.1.7    4 weeks ago

Red states are screwing our Union for their own purposes from the inside. Damn.

This is not about Joe Biden or mask per se, MAGA.

@5.1.4 I am referring to your written words in @5.1.2 about going private from tech sites. Tech business have rules, and people have leaders. Abide what is good and wholesome for all without being selfish and negligent.

This impossible notion that you seem to be carving out here, that "red-states" are going to buck blue-states and maybe vice-versa, is sickening. But thank you for making it plain to me. It will help me understand what y'all are truly about going forward.

That's seriously 'whack.' Red states are screwing the union for their own purposes from the inside. Damn.

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.1.10  Gordy327  replied to  MAGA @5.1.7    4 weeks ago
Do you really expect that if Biden and democrats win the election and impose nationwide mandates on mask wearing everywhere outside our home and or a national lockdown that red states who had been handling things differently under federalism are going to suddenly change course and comply?  I don’t.

Then that makes you and your ilk unpatriotic and part of the problem rather than the solution.

 
 
 
CB
5.1.11  CB   replied to  Split Personality @5.1.8    4 weeks ago

No. Sadly and more to the position they hold, if Biden takes over these red-states will sabotage his administration. They will flip into the loyal opposition heat-seeking to exploit kindnesses, beg for political indulgences (and then refuse to sign off on them), revert to the do-nothing congress a second time, and try to slow process and progress.

The handwriting could not be any clearer. The republican party is no good for liberals. They see us as having 'horns.' Of devils. And they intend to have us drag them around everywhere we prosper!

 
 
 
CB
5.1.12  CB   replied to  Gordy327 @5.1.10    4 weeks ago

They don't care. @5.1.11. :(

 
 
 
MAGA
5.1.13  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Split Personality @5.1.8    4 weeks ago

Trump did a great job in getting us ventilators, masks, PPE’s , field hospitals, persons to staff them, travel bans, 15 and 30 days to bend the curve, developing therapeutics, and record breaking progress toward a vaccine.  

 
 
 
MAGA
5.1.14  seeder  MAGA  replied to  CB @5.1.9    4 weeks ago

No. That’s what blue states and cities are doing but we won’t let them ruin us too.  

 
 
 
MAGA
5.1.15  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1.10    4 weeks ago

Reopening the economy and in person schools are the solution we need.  

 
 
 
MAGA
5.1.16  seeder  MAGA  replied to  CB @5.1.11    4 weeks ago

That’s right.  If Biden wins the script simply flips.  We become the loyal opposition, you defend the regime, and we wait til the next election to undo the last one.  

 
 
 
MAGA
5.1.17  seeder  MAGA  replied to  CB @5.1.12    4 weeks ago

We all will be during a Biden regime a perfect reflection of you all during the Trump administration.  There will be no honeymoon.  

 
 
 
Dulay
5.1.18  Dulay  replied to  MAGA @5.1.13    4 weeks ago
Trump did a great job in getting us ventilators, masks, PPE’s , field hospitals, persons to staff them, travel bans, 15 and 30 days to bend the curve, developing therapeutics, and record breaking progress toward a vaccine.  

Health care workers are STILL reusing PPE Xx. There are currently NO Federal field hospitals, NONE.

As for staff, the NG are helping with testing in very select locations.

The travel ban was utterly ineffective.

There was NO 15 to 30 day full shutdown to bend the curve. Some states NEVER shut down. 

There are no certified therapeutics, NONE. 

As for the 'record breaking' bullshit that Trump is touting, and you are regurgitating, the H1N1 vaccine was being distributed within 7 months of the outbreak. We are already PAST that time period with Covid. Get educated. 

 
 
 
MAGA
5.1.19  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Dulay @5.1.18    4 weeks ago

there will never be a full shutdown in this country.  

 
 
 
Dulay
5.1.20  Dulay  replied to  MAGA @5.1.19    4 weeks ago

Based on what Fauci is saying, if we want to get control of the virus, there WILL be a California style shutdown nation wide.  

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.1.21  Gordy327  replied to  MAGA @5.1.15    4 weeks ago
Reopening the economy and in person schools are the solution we need.  

What we need is a solution to Covid. Everything will fall back in place once that is done.

loyal opposition,

Oxymoron.

there will never be a full shutdown in this country.  

That's not really your call to make. And that doesn't address anything Dulay said. It's just another meaningless platitude of yours!

 
 
 
Split Personality
6  Split Personality    4 weeks ago

kintsugi

 
 
 
Krishna
6.1  Krishna  replied to  Split Personality @6    4 weeks ago
kintsugi

Gesundheit!

 
 
 
MAGA
6.1.1  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Krishna @6.1    4 weeks ago

Open California churches and put in check “tyrannical officials who have ruined our economy, closed our schools, divided our people between essential and nonessential and declared our churches as nonessential.”

Gideons and Rahabs are beginning to stand.

https://thenewstalkers.com/vic-eldred/group_discuss/10894/reject-newsoms-science-statements-govt-is-overreaching-principled-resistance-is-necessary#cm1447135

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.2  Split Personality  replied to  MAGA @6.1.1    4 weeks ago

Your churches ARE not essential. period.  Most Catholics and Jews realize that and voluntarily avoid gatherings for any reason.

.

We saw an ad on TX 360 today beseeching Christians, Jews and Catholics

to unite and vote for Trump.

Very telling that the writer doesn't consider Catholics to be Christians

 
 
 
Gordy327
6.1.3  Gordy327  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.2    4 weeks ago
Your churches ARE not essential. period.

Churches seem more like a waste of good real estate.

 
 
 
CB
6.1.4  CB   replied to  Gordy327 @6.1.3    4 weeks ago

This attacking of a fellow liberty to choose is not good. Compromise is the only way this country can work out its differences. Somehow we have got to homogenize in key areas just to continue to be relevant and expansive as a people. Else we diminish, get anemic as a people, and scatter to the 'four winds' - perish.

 
 
 
CB
6.1.5  CB   replied to  Split Personality @6.1.2    4 weeks ago

Friend SP, I beg your indulgence. Churches are essential to the faithful, if only for purposes of socially "blending" in one 'house.' What churches are not is free of and above science, we fall under the category of flesh like every other animal. In which case, if something infects our flesh we will become as sick, dying, and dead as a non-faithful person. These things are decreed in the body and spirituality does not attempt to overstep human cause and effect. We all have to listen to proper experts executing their duties and responsibilities.

This is why Donald taking on science is unworthy and stupid beyond belief! Who does that?1

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.6  Split Personality  replied to  CB @6.1.5    4 weeks ago
Friend SP, I beg your indulgence. Churches are essential to the faithful, if only for purposes of socially "blending" in one 'house.'

In the old West worthy ministers went into the mines to teach the miners be they white Irish or yellow Chinese, freed blacks or native Americans sold to the mines and Railroads to pay off their sentences.

Those holy men and women required no house of worship.

In a time where we are dangerous to one another because of possible infection, I suggest that most of the ire is political and libertarian

and has nothing to do with religion.

Churches will rarely fail, like a bowling alley or gymnasium...

all it takes is the imagination of the clergy to overcome small inconveniences.

Were the Chinese or Russians able to extinguish Christianity?

No

Neither will the virus, my brother CB.

 
 
 
CB
6.1.7  CB   replied to  Split Personality @6.1.6    4 weeks ago

Your entire comment here is well met. I listen to an institutional church which continues to largely meet online and they have this utterance at the start of each service which I find apropo:

". . . We thank God for technology. . . ."

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.8  Split Personality  replied to  CB @6.1.7    4 weeks ago

Peace be with you...

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.9  Split Personality  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.8    4 weeks ago

and with you always my brother from another mother

 
 
 
CB
6.1.10  CB   replied to  Split Personality @6.1.9    4 weeks ago

Peace, love, and safety to you and yours, my brother.

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.11  Split Personality  replied to  CB @6.1.10    4 weeks ago

512

 
 
 
MAGA
6.1.12  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.2    4 weeks ago

Trump got very substantial support from Catholics in 2016 and will again.  Some Catholic and Jewish groups do meet too.  Also we saw what happened to Jews for Trump in NYC last weekend.  Churches are most essential!  

 
 
 
MAGA
6.1.13  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Gordy327 @6.1.3    4 weeks ago

Their existence and our attending them when and how we see fit is not in any way up to you.  Thank God.  

 
 
 
MAGA
6.1.14  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.11    4 weeks ago

Nice face diaper there!  

 
 
 
MAGA
6.1.15  seeder  MAGA  replied to  CB @6.1.10    4 weeks ago

God will provide!  

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.16  Split Personality  replied to  MAGA @6.1.12    4 weeks ago
Churches are most essential!

Churches have nothing to do with religion.

Lot's of religions existed without physical churches.

Shamans everywhere are laughing with me...

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.17  Split Personality  replied to  MAGA @6.1.15    4 weeks ago
God will provide!  

What will he provide?  S/He certainly has hasn't protected anyone from his/her latest virus.

One wonders why. jrSmiley_87_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Texan1211
6.1.18  Texan1211  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.16    4 weeks ago

saying churches have nothing to do with religion is akin to saying a football field has nothing to do with football.

 
 
 
MAGA
6.1.19  seeder  MAGA  replied to  CB @6.1.4    4 weeks ago

Like democrats ever tried to compromise with the GOP and Trump the last four years?  

 
 
 
CB
6.1.20  CB   replied to  MAGA @6.1.15    4 weeks ago

You observed a movement of the Spirit there, eh? Do I have to ask if you felt it too?

 
 
 
MAGA
6.1.21  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.16    4 weeks ago

Not for you to decide on our behalf big brother!  

 
 
 
CB
6.1.22  CB   replied to  MAGA @6.1.19    4 weeks ago

Donald Trump is not a peace-maker with anybody who does not tow his line. Don't toy with me, for I have eyes, ears, and a discerning spirit to see what he is and has wrought in this nation between us.

Donald Trump appears to have made an oath with his supporters to take the rights and privileges of liberals away and spread them out amongst yourselves. As you can imagine, no self-respecting liberal, progressive, or secularist is going to stand for that—nor should s/he!

The compromise I write about allows everyone to come away with respect and dignity; it is the only way our nation will survive whole. Or the split will prove to be our national undoing! America can not lead the world, or garner world support, if it thinks it can return to a 'by-gone' era. Each succeeding period in time and space brings forth its own new 'day' of experiences and challenges.

The world of our founders, died with each and every one of those men. And it is well as those men expected nothing more to occur for them! They wished to be admired as founders and not as men forfor all times! They certainly were not prophets!

 
 
 
MAGA
6.1.23  seeder  MAGA  replied to  CB @6.1.22    4 weeks ago

Teump clearly is a peacemaker.  Look at the peace deals between Israel and Sudan, UAE, Bahrain and the Serbia Kosovo deal.  Trump offered democrats all sorts of deals they refused to negotiate on.  One of the biggest reasons I didn’t vote for Trump last time was fear that he’d triangulate with democrats all to often at conservatives expense on all sorts of things but democrat hate made certain that would not happen.  

 
 
 
Dulay
6.1.24  Dulay  replied to  MAGA @6.1.23    4 weeks ago
Trump offered democrats all sorts of deals they refused to negotiate on.

Cite ONE Xx. 

 
 
 
CB
6.1.25  CB   replied to  MAGA @6.1.23    4 weeks ago

There are no peace deals with those nations that has borne itself out. Also, are you forgetting the prophetic utterance in the Bible about the "broken contract' which leads to Armageddon (see Daniel)? Scripturally speaking there can be no 'lasting' peace between these middle eastern peoples and Israel. But if you wish to glom unto a pretense that you do not carry in your heart, go for it. NOTE: I am not qualified to say which is a production of a the 'last days,' but the book is about an establishment of contractual agreements between Israel and other surrounding nations which gets broken in the middle. . . .

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.26  Split Personality  replied to  Texan1211 @6.1.18    4 weeks ago

Depends on your experiences and thinking outside the box of Texas.

Religions that are largely humanism like Buddhism, Jaimism and Hindu don't need churches.

The Amish don't need churches, but the few homes I have been fortunate enough to visit have enormous living rooms

because the services move from home to home, as do the pews and/or chairs. 

Religions without the Church?

The explanation is simple: A lot of people think they can have religion without the church. Many Christians – especially evangelicals – have come to see their faith primarily in individualistic terms, as the gospel of “Jesus and me.”

 
 
 
Texan1211
6.1.27  Texan1211  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.26    4 weeks ago

 5 major religions all have houses of worship.

Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism

 
 
 
MAGA
6.1.28  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Dulay @6.1.24    4 weeks ago

Infrastructure and immigration regarding the dreamers just to name a couple.  

 
 
 
Gordy327
6.1.29  Gordy327  replied to  MAGA @6.1.13    4 weeks ago
Their existence and our attending them when and how we see fit is not in any way up to you.  

I never said it was. What's your point?

Nice face diaper there!  

Nice juvenile comment.

God will provide!  

A cop out rationalization one makes to absolve themselves of any responsibility.

Like democrats ever tried to compromise with the GOP and Trump the last four years?  

That works both ways.

 
 
 
MAGA
6.1.30  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.26    4 weeks ago

That we can have religion without a central church structure was never the issue.  We do it in the 3rd world all the time until one can be built.  Religion is about God and people but God wanted us to gather together to worship Him. We really don’t need a secularist government or individuals butting in and telling us how we need to or should do it.  That a couple of Christian denominations and Islam might put way too much material effort and wealth into some of their structures is a different issue.  

 
 
 
MAGA
6.1.31  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Gordy327 @6.1.29    4 weeks ago

Trump and the GOP have repeatedly tried compromise to no avail as did the GOP during the Obama regime 

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.32  Split Personality  replied to  Texan1211 @6.1.27    4 weeks ago

Children all over the world learn to play sports, soccer in particular without the benefit of a proper pitch.

A church is not necessary for religion to exist or thrive no matter who or what you pray to.

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.33  Split Personality  replied to  Gordy327 @6.1.29    4 weeks ago

Thank you Gordy

 
 
 
Gsquared
6.1.34  Gsquared  replied to  MAGA @6.1.31    4 weeks ago

That is historical revision, completely distorted and totally false.  The Republican Congressional leaders met on the night of President Obama's first inauguration and agreed on a plan to oppose every Obama initiative, even if they were matters they had previously supported.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
6.1.35  Texan1211  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.32    4 weeks ago

I didn't claim a church building was necessary, but to pretend that churches are not part of religion is ludicrous at best.

At least, that has been my experience in the places I have lived--California, Virginia, Nevada, and Texas. And in all the places I have visited outside of Texas, which is all but 1 state in the union. You know, outside of the Texas box

 
 
 
Gordy327
6.1.36  Gordy327  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.33    4 weeks ago

You're welcome.

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.37  Split Personality  replied to  Texan1211 @6.1.35    4 weeks ago

I understand.

If it's a day that ends in "day" you will find something to be disagreeable about whenever I comment.

The last word is yours...

 
 
 
MUVA
6.1.38  MUVA  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.32    4 weeks ago

Says who?

 
 
 
Texan1211
6.1.39  Texan1211  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.37    4 weeks ago

You started this ridiculousness.

Now, YOU take the last word.

I'm finished.

 
 
 
Dulay
6.1.40  Dulay  replied to  MAGA @6.1.28    4 weeks ago
Infrastructure and immigration regarding the dreamers just to name a couple.  

Cite a BILL proposed by the WH Xx, Hell, cite an OUTLINE for a bill from the WH. 

You can't because there isn't one. NOTHING, NADA. Pretending that Trump's blathering MEANS anything concrete is laughable. Just like the Trump/Pence promise of a Health care plan, it's smoke and mirrors with no substance. 

 
 
 
Dulay
6.1.41  Dulay  replied to  MAGA @6.1.30    4 weeks ago
Religion is about God and people but God wanted us to gather together to worship Him.

So you don't hold to:

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
6.1.42  Raven Wing  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.16    4 weeks ago
Shamans everywhere are laughing with me...

You can bet on that. People the world round have been worshiping their chosen deity for thousands of years, and did not and do not need a church or enclosed building or structure to worship them. If a deity will only accept prayers and adoration when performed or spoken in a church or such structure, then it is not really interested in what a person is praying or their dedication. 

Being Native American, and one who practices the religion of my Cherokee ancestors, I have no need of a specific structure or location to interact with the Creator. He/She is wherever I am at any time I need Him/Her. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.43  Split Personality  replied to  Texan1211 @6.1.39    4 weeks ago
You started this ridiculousness.

Nope, that was MAGA who insisted that the church was most Essential ( 6.1.12 )

I'm finished.

One can only hope.

 
 
 
Tacos!
7  Tacos!    4 weeks ago

The truly outrageous abuse of power is the refusal to allow Disneyland to reopen - even a little. There is no science that justifies it. Disney World in Florida has been open for months and they're doing just fine. You don't think Disney, of all companies, has plans to limit transmission of the virus? And the means to enforce those limits?

Meanwhile, the park stays closed, so Disney has to lay people off and then people in government (like Elizabeth Warren ) attack them for it. Like it's Disney's fault the park is closed??

Small businesses for miles around Disneyland also rely on traffic to the park . Hotels, restaurants, etc. Many are laying people off, and some of them are going out of business. It's not necessary.

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @7    4 weeks ago

BREAKING: The Walt Disney Company Restoring Salaries of Senior Executives to Pre-COVID Levels

A MONTH later:

BREAKING: Disney Parks Announces 28,000 Cast Member Layoffs Due to the COVID-19 Pandemic

 
 
 
MAGA
7.2  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Tacos! @7    4 weeks ago

It isn’t.  We had a water park open up here in Redding for a couple of months following strict precautions, distancing, and masks in lines to get in and the state still threw a fit, they salvaged two thirds of the season and stayed open until the state actually showed up and coerced compliance.  That’s the only way they get it from us up here.  We are 200 miles from SF and over 500 from LA so they cant micro manage us up here 24/7 

 
 
 
Tacos!
7.2.1  Tacos!  replied to  MAGA @7.2    4 weeks ago

Remember when the goal was merely "flatten the curve?" Now, you can't do anything until we have zero infections, which is probably never going to happen. Talk about "moving the goalposts."

 
 
 
MAGA
7.2.2  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Tacos! @7.2.1    4 weeks ago

Exactly!  That’s our point.  Too many democrats are simply using the virus as a tool or even a weapon to attempt to control the lives of others.  It’s used to take away people’s economic choices, to impinge upon all of our individual rights if we disagree with them, and curtail our religious liberty in ways that they’d never dare or Dream to do prior to chinas virus coming here.  

 
 
 
CB
7.2.3  CB   replied to  MAGA @7.2.2    4 weeks ago

Forgive me, but this sounds so "lily-white" America to me. Black people have always had white people to contend with in every aspect of our lives from birth to death. It really must be nice to have all that special White privilege doing nice things for you, such that you can hewn and cry over the slightest indignities to a normal white experience in 'merica.

I may be coming on too strong, but I am feeling a need to be real. This bothers me. Because some people have real problems in life. I just watched a scene in a Montana(?) hospital where several virus-stricken and ventilated persons are/were struggling to breath with lungs filled with distress, wheezing, coughing, struggling, bruised inside, 'ugly' outside, and then here are you guys with everything to live for, bitching about liberty, freedom and getting along with others - as if you can have either of those "entitlements" in life apart from an ability to breath freely and at-liberty.

Why do y'all feel better than the team we are all on?

 
 
 
Split Personality
7.2.4  Split Personality  replied to  Tacos! @7.2.1    4 weeks ago
Talk about "moving the goalposts."

and look at the curve, lol

512

 
 
 
MAGA
7.2.5  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Split Personality @7.2.4    4 weeks ago

Meanwhile, one European nation continues to defy European public health orthodoxy. Sweden's decision not to go into full lockdown continues to receive criticism. TIME magazine, for example, recently published an article about the Swedish experiment headlined: "The Swedish COVID-19 Response Is a Disaster. It Shouldn't Be a Model for the rest of the World."

Initially, Sweden's fatality numbers started rising fast: At one point its mortality rate was five times higher than its Scandinavian neighbor Denmark and ten times higher than Finland and Norway. It turned out that this was mainly due to one of the few lockdown restrictions Sweden did impose. Elderly people were moved out of hospitals and into nursing homes. Then, as the virus spread, the newly sick were not allowed to go into hospital for treatment. It has since eased those restrictions.

"Deaths are not so closely connected to the amount of cases you have in a country," claims Sweden's coronavirus response czar, State Epidemiologist Anders Tegnellcontroversially claims. "There are so many other things," he argues, "that the influence the amount of deaths you have. What part of the population gets hit? Is it the elderly people? How well can you protect people in your long-term facilities? How well does your healthcare system continue to function? How can we improve the treatment in ICUs?"

Tegnell's decision to keep Sweden's society largely open and rely on voluntary participation, rather than imposing reduction measures, may have allowed herd immunity to grow within its population. "What we see right now is a rapid fall in the number of cases," he says, "and of course some kind of immunity has to be involved in that as nothing else has changed."

According to worldometers.info, during the last three months from July 27 to Oct. 27, Sweden suffered 198 deaths, around two per day. To put that in perspective, the average number of cancer deaths during that same period in Sweden is 6,000.

If Sweden's small population of 10.23 million was scaled up to the U.K.'s size, that would be the equivalent of 1,290 deaths, whereas the U.K. actually suffered 4,540 deaths (over three times as many) during that time. The U.S. equivalent of Sweden's number would be 6,406, whereas worldometers.info reports there were 80,677 U.S. deaths, which is over twelve times as many. 

read more: https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/new-lockdowns-ordered-across-europe

 
 
 
MAGA
7.2.6  seeder  MAGA  replied to  CB @7.2.3    4 weeks ago

Race had nothing to do with anything I said above...

 
 
 
Dulay
7.2.7  Dulay  replied to  MAGA @7.2.5    4 weeks ago

Sweden's testing is way behind the most of Europe. 

 
 
 
CB
7.2.8  CB   replied to  MAGA @7.2.6    4 weeks ago

It's a different perspective. And perhaps it's time you really hear, listen, and consider another's perspective beyond your own. We can no more be you; then you can be us. But we can all be better—together if you just lower your damn guard and share the country for once. It is reasonably clear that you can not be happy without "us" (all the others surrounding you) participating.

 
 
 
MAGA
7.2.9  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Dulay @7.2.7    4 weeks ago

Sure it is...

 
 
 
Tacos!
7.2.10  Tacos!  replied to  Split Personality @7.2.4    4 weeks ago

Everybody's got their data. You're giving me graphs of countries, while I have been talking about California.  These are the charts I see every day in the LA Times, which come from the state. So this is what the governor sees. There has been a bump in cases in the last week or so, but the general trend for months has been down. Deaths, even more so, and with no such bump.

This seed is about California. Should California businesses shut down because cases are spiking in North Dakota or Wisconsin?

original

 
 
 
Dulay
7.2.11  Dulay  replied to  MAGA @7.2.9    4 weeks ago

Glad to see that you're finally agreeing with some facts. 

 
 
 
MAGA
7.2.12  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Dulay @7.2.11    4 weeks ago

I didn’t agree with anything you said and it’s likely that I never will.  

 
 
 
Dulay
7.2.13  Dulay  replied to  MAGA @7.2    4 weeks ago
We had a water park open up here in Redding for a couple of months following strict precautions, distancing, and masks in lines to get in and the state still threw a fit, they salvaged two thirds of the season and stayed open until the state actually showed up and coerced compliance.  That’s the only way they get it from us up here.

That's FALSE Xx and you know it. 

UPDATE: WaterWorks Park agrees to close, police chief says

WaterWorks Park in Redding agreed to close for the season Monday, the day the county said it needed to cease operations to avoid having its public pool permit revoked, Redding Police Chief Bill Schueller said. 

Action News reported earlier Monday that the park planned to stay open until Aug. 2 and challenge an order from the county to close by Monday or have its public pool permit revoked over COVID-19 guidelines.

But later in the day, Schueller said the park agreed to close as of Monday. 

So SHASTA COUNTY and the SHERIFF closed them down, NOT the state. 

While making shit up about your areas 'faux defiance' may make you think that you are bolstering your ideology here on NT, the rest of us just see your comment as a desperate LIE posted by a self identified Christian. 

 
 
 
Dulay
7.2.14  Dulay  replied to  MAGA @7.2.12    4 weeks ago

Your disagreement merely gives my comment more credibility. 

 
 
 
CB
7.2.15  CB   replied to  Dulay @7.2.13    4 weeks ago

Good work, Dulay!

 
 
 
MAGA
7.2.16  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Dulay @7.2.13    3 weeks ago

They acted because the state forced the issue.  We blame the state and not local authorities for the shutdown.  

 
 
 
MAGA
7.2.17  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Dulay @7.2.14    3 weeks ago

No, I’m the one with real credibility here.  The secular progressive left point of view has no credibility whatsoever and neither do any of the people who advocate for it

 
 
 
MAGA
7.2.18  seeder  MAGA  replied to  CB @7.2.15    3 weeks ago

Not really...

 
 
 
Dulay
7.2.19  Dulay  replied to  MAGA @7.2.16    3 weeks ago

So no manning up for the BS you posted. Got ya. 

 
 
 
Dulay
7.2.20  Dulay  replied to  MAGA @7.2.17    3 weeks ago
No, I’m the one with real credibility here.

Nope. You just posted a comment that is a LIE Xx and refused to fess up to it. What little credibility you may have had is void.  

The secular progressive left point of view has no credibility whatsoever and neither do any of the people who advocate for it

Sweeping generalization much Xx? 

BTFW, I'm talking about your comment which I PROVED was false. That isn't a POV. That's a fact. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
7.3  Split Personality  replied to  Tacos! @7    4 weeks ago

Not to be contrary but Disney CA is a landlocked mess.

Disney FL was built in the middle of nowhere with massive parking and room for expansion if environmentalists will allow.

Florida is manageable.

California must be patient

 
 
 
Tacos!
7.3.1  Tacos!  replied to  Split Personality @7.3    4 weeks ago

I'll need to see data that supports that. Here is some data that I think refutes it.

original

 
 
 
Dulay
7.3.2  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @7.3.1    4 weeks ago

That graphic also seems to refute the seed's posit that Newsom is overreaching. Looks like Newsom's 'overreaching' policies are working for California. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
7.3.3  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @7.3.2    4 weeks ago

It shows that something is working. It doesn’t make the direct connection you want to see. What it shows me is that we have a pretty flat curve, which was supposed to be the goal.

 
 
 
Dulay
7.3.4  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @7.3.3    4 weeks ago

So it's your posit that California has met some kind of 'goal' with over 4000 new cases and 50 deaths every day? 

 
 
 
Tacos!
7.3.5  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @7.3.4    4 weeks ago

The shape of the curve was the goal. Do you dispute that? That’s what we’re talking about.

California’s Roadmap to Modify the Stay at Home Order

So it's your posit that California has met some kind of 'goal' with over 4000 new cases and 50 deaths every day? 

I made no “posit” about numbers. Don’t troll me by trying to restate my position for me so you can argue some straw man.

Specific numbers were not the goal. If you have a problem with that perspective, go back in time to April and take it up with the governor.

Governor Newsom: Curve has ‘arguably flattened,’ California nears 900 COVID-19 deaths

In late August, though, he moved the goalposts. Now , it’s about numbers, but those numbers are arbitrary.

California’s Newsom deploys new coronavirus reopening framewor k, most counties under strict orders

For a guy who claims to be basing his decisions on the science, he doesn’t seem to be citing any that says Disneyland shouldn’t reopen.

 
 
 
Dulay
7.3.6  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @7.3.5    4 weeks ago
The shape of the curve was the goal. Do you dispute that? That’s what we’re talking about.

What I AM disputing is YOUR posit that 'the goal' has somehow met. BTW, your link is from APRIL and some shit HAS changed in the meantime. 

I made no “posit” about numbers. Don’t troll me by trying to restate my position for me so you can argue some straw man.

You sure as hell DID by posting this:

These are the charts I see every day in the LA Times, which come from the state. So this is what the governor sees. There has been a bump in cases in the last week or so, but the general trend for months has been down. Deaths, even more so, and with no such bump.

Are you trying to insist that IGNORE the numbers cited on the charts that YOU posted and that YOU commented on? 

Ridiculous. 

Secondly, either flag my comment as trolling or STOP accusing me of trolling. PICK ONE. 

Specific numbers were not the goal. If you have a problem with that perspective, go back in time to April and take it up with the governor.

Yet YOU cited 'a bump in cases in the last week' and that deaths showed 'no such bump' and while you're desperate to pretend that the goal isn't 'specific numbers', those 'bumps' you speak of are  based solely on SPECIFIC NUMBERS.

Trying to pretend that you can separate the 'specific numbers' from the 'shape of the curve' is juvenile. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
7.3.7  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @7.3.6    4 weeks ago
What I AM disputing is YOUR posit that 'the goal' has somehow met.

Well, you're doing a poor job of it. I said the goal was to flatten the curve. You can't dispute that, though you won't admit it, either. I posted graphs that clearly show flattened curves. You can't dispute that either, and again you won't admit it. Basically, you have nothing. You're pestering me to no purpose.

Are you trying to insist that IGNORE the numbers cited on the charts that YOU posted and that YOU commented on? 

Yes. I said nothing about numbers. How hard is that to understand? Are you intentionally ignoring the words in front of you?

Trying to pretend that you can separate the 'specific numbers' from the 'shape of the curve' is juvenile.  

You don't like the truth and you won't discuss the facts, so you resort to personal attacks. Like I said. You bring nothing to this topic. Good day.

 
 
 
Dulay
7.3.8  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @7.3.7    4 weeks ago
Well, you're doing a poor job of it. I said the goal was to flatten the curve. You can't dispute that, though you won't admit it, either. I posted graphs that clearly show flattened curves. You can't dispute that either, and again you won't admit it. Basically, you have nothing. You're pestering me to no purpose. Yes. I said nothing about numbers. How hard is that to understand? Are you intentionally ignoring the words in front of you?

Actually NO Tacos. you do NOT want me to ignore the numbers because if I did I would also have the ignore the 'flattened curve' that represents those very numbers. Again, your pretense that the graph isn't based on numbers is juvenile. 

Trying to pretend that you can separate the 'specific numbers' from the 'shape of the curve' is juvenile. 
You don't like the truth and you won't discuss the facts, so you resort to personal attacks. 

I posted the truth and discussed the facts Tacos. You want to talk about graphs while desperately trying to ignore what those graphs illustrate. 

Characterizing your posit as juvenile isn't a personal attack. Insistence that is, is juvenile. 

Oh and BTFW, either flag my comment or stop the bullshit about 'personal attacks'. 

Like I said. You bring nothing to this topic. 

I thought you were averse to resorting to personal attacks...

 
 
 
Tacos!
7.3.9  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @7.3.8    4 weeks ago
Again, your pretense that the graph isn't based on numbers is juvenile.

Please stop with these dishonest straw man tactics. I never said the graph had no connection to numbers. You have made NO points that contribute to the topic. Unless you have something to add, please stop talking to me. It's just harassment at this point.

Oh and BTFW

I have told you before not to use the F word on me in any form. You know this.

 
 
 
Split Personality
7.3.10  Split Personality  replied to  Tacos! @7.3.7    4 weeks ago
You're pestering me to no purpose.

Still playing the victim and still calling someone else a troll.

smh

 
 
 
Split Personality
7.3.11  Split Personality  replied to  Tacos! @7.3.9    4 weeks ago
I have told you before not to use the F word on me in any form. You know this.

Oh FFS, what are you going to do, quit responding?

Not likely.

 
 
 
Tacos!
7.3.12  Tacos!  replied to  Split Personality @7.3.10    4 weeks ago
Still playing the victim and still calling someone else a troll.

I didn't call anyone a troll. But I see you don't mind posting a completely off-topic personal attack instead of commenting on the topic.

 
 
 
Split Personality
7.3.13  Split Personality  replied to  Tacos! @7.3.12    4 weeks ago

YES let me start the month off with a bang.

Don’t troll me by trying to restate my position for me so you can argue some straw man.

Yes that is skirting.

I have treated you fairly every time we interact and tried to show you that YES you are a TRUMP supporter

as evidenced by months and months of hair splitting essays written by you

as to why you are not a Trump supporter but that there is a perfectly

plausible reason for every nasty Trumpism, Trump lie or investigation or folly that he misstates.

Try as you might to stay under the radar, you have failed.

Flag away my friend.

 
 
 
Dulay
7.3.14  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @7.3.9    4 weeks ago
Please stop with these dishonest straw man tactics.

PLEASE learn the proper use of the term strawman. 

I never said the graph had no connection to numbers. 

Yet you cite the graph ad nauseam while insisting that you haven't said anything about numbers which that very graph is based on. 

You have made NO points that contribute to the topic.

I've made the point that you argument isn't cogent. 

Unless you have something to add, please stop talking to me. It's just harassment at this point.

I'll post any replies I damn well please. That is the THIRD CoC violation you have accused me of, ALL of which are bullshit. Nobody is forcing you to read anything. Your victim card bullshit is ridiculous. 

I have told you before not to use the F word on me in any form. You know this.

Another victim card. I have used nothing ON you Tacos. I used an F in an acronym. Next time you see an F, assume it means Freaking if that fits better with your sensibilities. 

Now, if you have a issue with the 'F bomb', I suggest you avail yourself of the handy dandy filter that is provided to you by NT to block such wording. If you do NOT avail yourself of said filter, it implies that you are open to viewing  such wording. So it's on YOU and YOU know this. 

Or just hit the ignore button. Either way I could not care less. 

I will NOT alter the content of my comments. PERIOD full stop. 

 
 
 
MAGA
7.3.15  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Tacos! @7.3.7    4 weeks ago

[This link with advertising has been repeatedly spammed in defiance of several mods and the RA.]

 
 
 
Raven Wing
7.3.16  Raven Wing  replied to  Dulay @7.3.14    4 weeks ago

jrSmiley_79_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
MAGA
7.3.17  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Dulay @7.3.14    4 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
MAGA
7.3.18  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Dulay @7.3.14    3 weeks ago

The bottom line is that there is such strong disagreement on this issue that there will never be any consensus on it.  It is literally stupid to believe that government can control a virus.  There is no way that those who want a nationwide one size fits all federal lockdown and everywhere outside of ones home national mask mandate can cram it upon those who do not.  

 
 
 
Dulay
7.3.19  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @7.3.1    3 weeks ago

There you go again with the graphs. 

Y'all have been whining about one size fits all mandates and then when decision are made county by county they whine about that. 

Disneyland is in a hotspot. Get over it...

 
 
 
Dulay
7.3.20  Dulay  replied to  MAGA @7.3.18    3 weeks ago

Fine Xx.

Biden can just do what you have supported for the sanctuary cities.

Redding doesn't want to comply with Federal mandates, no soup for you...

Your little corner of the RW world will dry up like a raisin.

Triage will be necessary and those that refuse to comply with mitigation attempts go the the end of the line on therapeutics and vaccines. Wallow in the virus if you wish. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
7.3.21  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @7.3.19    3 weeks ago
There you go again with the graphs.

You're bothered by published facts and data? That might be telling right there.

Y'all have been whining about one size fits all mandates

I don't think I said anything about one size fits all mandates in this thread. Maybe I'm wrong. But I would think most sensible people would see that such things are often a bad idea. I would say that targeted responses based on specific data are probably more useful.

Disneyland is in a hotspot.

I have seen no evidence that Disneyland is in a hot spot or is a hot spot itself (not sure which you meant).

By a quirky coincidence, both Disneyland and Disney World are in Orange County. In Orange County, California , this is what the cases look like (you'll hate this part. It's another graphic based on actual data):

original

Clearly new cases have decreased quite a bit over the last few months. Based on this graphic, I would say this spot was a lot hotter a few months ago.

But would it suddenly get worse if Disneyland were to reopen? There is strong evidence that it probably would not be a new hot spot. Disney World (same kind of place as Disneyland, and run by the same company, if you weren't aware) has been open for months in Florida and it isn't being blamed for new outbreaks.

At Disney World, ‘Worst Fears’ About Virus Have Not Come True

In July, one infectious disease expert said Walt Disney World’s reopening was a “terrible idea” that was “inviting disaster.” Social media users attacked Disney as “irresponsible” and “clueless” for pressing forward, even as coronavirus cases surged in Florida. A few aghast onlookers turned Disney World marketing videos into parody trailers for horror films.

. . . 

As tumultuous as the three months since the reopening have been, however, public health officials and Disney World’s unions say there have been no coronavirus outbreaks among workers or guests. So far, Disney’s wide-ranging safety measures appear to be working.

Here is another one of those graphs full of facts that you seem to disapprove of so much. In case it's not clear, the amber (dark yellow) line is the new covid cases in the state of Florida and the orange line is the cases for Orange County, Florida where Disney World is located. (Lines going down means less new cases than before - that's a good thing) The gray area shows when the park opened in July, and it has remained open for over three months. 

original

Across the state, and around Disney World, new cases are declining. Impact of Disney World reopening? Apparently, very little. Not what I would call a "hot spot."

 
 
 
Dulay
7.3.22  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @7.3.21    3 weeks ago
You're bothered by published facts and data? That might be telling right there.

No but I am bothered by members that truncate a comment in order to pretend they're making a cogent point. That IS telling right there. 

you'll hate this part. It's another graphic based on actual data

Is that 'actual data' based on specific numbers Tacos? 

 
 
 
Tacos!
7.3.23  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @7.3.22    3 weeks ago

Another post with no point. Nothing on topic. It's pretty clear you have nothing to offer in that regard.

 
 
 
Dulay
7.3.24  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @7.3.23    3 weeks ago

Another desperate attempt at obfuscation. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
7.3.25  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @7.3.24    3 weeks ago

Another off-topic comment. Do you have anything at all to say about Disneyland and the data presented here? Or will it just be more personal garbage?

 
 
 
Split Personality
7.3.26  Split Personality  replied to  Tacos! @7.3.21    3 weeks ago

Ok, it's not a hot spot right now when it's closed.  That makes sense.

Care to guarantee each visitors safety when they reopen?

They don't just sell tickets to Orange County residents do they?

What percentage of their guests are from CONUS?

How much is international?

Impact of Disney World reopening?

Apparently unknown but feared?

Apparently, very little. Not what I would call a "hot spot."

That qualifies as an opinion.

 
 
 
Split Personality
7.3.27  Split Personality  replied to  Tacos! @7.3.25    3 weeks ago

Speaking of off topic, why are we now looking at Disney World Florida graphs when the

topic of the seed is what a horrible person Gavin Newsome is as Governor of MAGA's home state?

 
 
 
Tacos!
7.3.28  Tacos!  replied to  Split Personality @7.3.26    3 weeks ago
Care to guarantee each visitors safety when they reopen?

Guaranteed safety? No. Since when is that the standard for anything ? And that was never supposed to be the standard for reopening businesses, was it? We were supposed to flatten the curve so that hospitals could handle the load of sick people. It was never supposed to be "we guarantee you won't get sick." That would be an impossible standard for anyone at any time.

Apparently unknown but feared?

No, it's actually well known. If you look at the links and data I provided in my comments above, you will see that. In fact, some workers at Disney World have gotten sick, but based on their contact tracing, they didn't get sick because of working at Disney World. They got sick out in the regular world. 

From the NY Times article, I linked:

Disney declined to say how many Disney World employees had tested positive for the coronavirus since the resort reopened. In phone interviews, union leaders said cases had been minimal.

“We’ve had very few, and none, as far as we can tell, have been from work-related exposure ,” said Eric Clinton, president of UNITE HERE Local 362, which represents roughly 8,000 attraction workers and custodians.

Mr. Clinton’s assessment was echoed by UNITE HERE Local 737, which represents hotel housekeepers and food and beverage workers; Local 631 of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, where members include stagehands and show technicians; United Food & Commercial Workers Local 1625, which handles merchandise and banquet workers; and Teamsters Local 385, which looks after bus drivers, laundry workers and entertainers who appear in costume as Disney characters.

“So far —   so far   it has been a success story ,” said Julee Jerkovich, a United Food & Commercial Workers official. “As a union rep, I do not say that lightly.”

And to show how arbitrary and frustrating Governor Newsom's shifting policies are, there is this also from that story:

Disney’s ability to keep workers and guests safe has been at the center of an increasingly tense standoff in California that has kept the company’s West Coast resort closed since March. Gov. Gavin Newsom, citing coronavirus concerns, has refused to allow California theme parks to reopen; Disney, citing the efficacy of its safety procedures in Florida, has pressured him to reconsider. So have elected officials in Southern California, where the two-park Disneyland Resort supports 78,000 jobs, according to economists at California State University, Fullerton.

. . . 

Last week, a frustrated Robert A. Iger, Disney’s executive chairman, resigned from an economic task force set up by Mr. Newsom at the start of the pandemic. California wants theme parks to remain closed until the rate of new daily coronavirus cases in their counties falls below one per 100,000 people and the counties have a less than 2 percent positivity rate for tests — what the governor has deemed “minimal” on a four-level scale for coronavirus risk. Theme park owners, including NBCUniversal and Six Flags, have pushed back on that standard as unrealistic, saying it will effectively keep them closed until a vaccine has been deployed.

. . . 

Every other Disney resort has reopened, including those in Paris, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Tokyo.

The data shows that we opened responsibly,” Dr. Pamela Hymel, chief medical officer for Walt Disney Parks and Resorts, said by phone. “We didn’t cause a surge.” In response to Mr. Newsom’s comments, Dr. Hymel said, “We absolutely reject the suggestion that reopening the Disneyland Resort is incompatible with a ‘health first’ approach.”

There is no science justifying the continued closing of Disneyland, and ample evidence that it could reopen safely. The governor claims he is basing his decisions on science, but cites none. It looks far more like he is operating based on his own sense of panic or his need to exercise control.

That goes, by the way, for the commenters here, including yourself, who support the governor with no reasoning offered.

 
 
 
Tacos!
7.3.29  Tacos!  replied to  Split Personality @7.3.27    3 weeks ago
why are we now looking at Disney World Florida graphs when the topic of the seed is what a horrible person Gavin Newsome is as Governor of MAGA's home state?

Because of the direct comparison between choices made by this governor contrasted with people elsewhere. That's a perfectly valid framework for analysis. 

In California, the governor has decided, in spite of the available evidence, that it is unsafe to open Disneyland. In other places, Disney has demonstrated that it can reopen safely. That would seem to make the governor's edict an unreasonable one in that it literally is not based in reason.

 
 
 
Dulay
7.3.30  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @7.3.21    3 weeks ago

Oh and BTFW, I said DisneyLAND's Orange county is a hotspot, NOT Disneyworld's Orange county. 

Oh and FYI, THAT was a strawman...

 
 
 
Tacos!
7.3.31  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @7.3.30    3 weeks ago
I said DisneyLAND's Orange county is a hotspot, NOT Disneyworld's Orange county

Yes I know. I never claimed you said anything about Florida, so there is no need for you to even mention it. Do you have anything to contribute on the topic?

 
 
 
Dulay
7.3.32  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @7.3.28    3 weeks ago
And that was never supposed to be the standard for reopening businesses, was it?

Yet it IS a standard that Disneyworld has set for itself. It's all over their website. They are at 25% capacity. 

Oh and BTFW, over 11,000 of those 28,000 that were laid off were from Disneyworld in FLORIDA. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
7.3.33  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @7.3.32    3 weeks ago

And that all means what about Governor Newsom’s policy?

 
 
 
Dulay
7.3.34  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @7.3.31    3 weeks ago
Yes I know. 

Then this part of your comment:

Impact of Disney World reopening? Apparently, very little. Not what I would call a "hot spot."

Is moot. 

Do you have anything to contribute on the topic?

Pointing out the strawman in your comment is a contribution. 

 
 
 
Dulay
7.3.35  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @7.3.33    3 weeks ago

Which policy are you asking about? The CHD set the standards that counties have to meet to be reduced from a red to orange tier county. That's how shit works when elected officials rely on health professionals.  

Orange county CALIFORNIA is STILL a red tier county. Your graph doesn't illustrate that, does it? 

 
 
 
Tacos!
7.3.36  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @7.3.34    3 weeks ago

You either don’t understand the concept of comparing similar things or you are deliberately doing it. Either way, you don’t seem to be up to the challenge of this topic. And yet you keep coming back. What for? I’ll ask for the bazillion this time: Do you have anything to contribute to the topic, or not? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Pointing out the strawman in your comment is a contribution

There has been no straw man. I just denied it and you accepted it. Again: Anything about the governor and his policy vis a vis Disneyland? No? Maybe you should try a thread where you actually have something to say.

 
 
 
Split Personality
7.3.37  Split Personality  replied to  Tacos! @7.3.28    3 weeks ago
That goes, by the way, for the commenters here, including yourself, who support the governor with no reasoning offered.

Well thanks for telling me who I support in California....

 
 
 
Tacos!
7.3.38  Tacos!  replied to  Split Personality @7.3.37    3 weeks ago

I was speaking within the context of this thread. Do you have anything to offer on that or did you just come here to be hostile to me?

 
 
 
MAGA
7.4  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Tacos! @7    4 weeks ago

removed for context

 
 
 
MAGA
8  seeder  MAGA    4 weeks ago

https://www.instagram.com/p/CG-7tojhX0d/?igshid=12g6btkusf71s

 
 
 
MAGA
9  seeder  MAGA    3 weeks ago

Does anyone really think that the people of this state are going to obey Newscums micromanaging of our religious holiday this Thanksgiving?  

 
 
 
Dulay
9.1  Dulay  replied to  MAGA @9    3 weeks ago

Oh now Thanksgiving is a religious holiday?

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
MAGA
9.1.1  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Dulay @9.1    3 weeks ago

It isn’t the religion.  The religion is that it’s a day that we give thanks to God for our manifest blessings as a nation, for safety, health, for our individual blessings, for friends, family, etc.  There would be no such thing as a thanksgiving day holiday were it not created by our founders and other later leaders for us as a people and nation to give thanks to God.  That is the only reason there is for it.  So we give thanks to God. There is no place in Thanksgiving for atheists.  

 
 
 
CB
9.1.2  CB   replied to  MAGA @9.1.1    3 weeks ago

We give thanks to God every day and continuously. So there is that! Thanksgiving is a set aside day for observance by observers. Nothing more or less.

 
 
 
TᵢG
9.1.3  TᵢG  replied to  MAGA @9.1.1    3 weeks ago
 So we give thanks to God. There is no place in Thanksgiving for atheists.  

Times change, get with the program ... it is called societal evolution.   It has religious roots, but Thanksgiving has been secular for years. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
9.1.4  Gordy327  replied to  MAGA @9.1.1    3 weeks ago
There is no place in Thanksgiving for atheists.  

What a sanctimonious and ignorant statement. But not surprising either. Sorry, but you don't get to say which holidays are for whom!

 
 
 
Gordy327
9.1.5  Gordy327  replied to  TᵢG @9.1.3    3 weeks ago
it is called societal evolution.  

Don't forget, certain individuals ignorantly do not accept "evolution," scientific or otherwise.

 
 
 
MAGA
9.1.6  seeder  MAGA  replied to  Gordy327 @9.1.4    3 weeks ago

You are welcome to thank God for all that you have at any time.  

 
 
 
Gordy327
9.1.7  Gordy327  replied to  MAGA @9.1.6    3 weeks ago

I'll consider it just as soon as you prove there's a god. In the meantime, I'll thank myself for all I have, considering I'm the one who worked for and earned it.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
10  The Magic Eight Ball    3 weeks ago

alleged “science” as an excuse to clamp down on liberty and religious freedom.

512

 
 
 
Gordy327
10.1  Gordy327  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @10    3 weeks ago

Science is not the enemy. Science is the solution.

 
 
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