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Democrats set Thursday vote on US House path to impeachment probe

  
Via:  Vic Eldred  •  5 years ago  •  27 comments

By:   Al Jazeera English

Democrats set Thursday vote on US House path to impeachment probe
"We are not willing to allow the White House to engage us in a lengthy game of rope-a-dope in the courts, so we will move forward," Schiff said.

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Democrats in the United States House of Representatives set a Thursday vote to lay out next steps for their impeachment inquiry of President Donald Trump, even as officials past and present refuse to cooperate.

Trump and his fellow Republicans have spent weeks branding the probe illegitimate because the full Democratic-led House had not authorised it. If the measure passes the House, Democrats are likely to argue that it neutralises those claims.

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, in a letter to fellow Democrats, said the step is being taken "to eliminate any doubt" about the process as the White House continues its attempt to block witnesses and withhold documents. 

Several administration officials, including a former deputy national security adviser on Monday, have failed to testify to House committees engaged in the impeachment probe.

Charles Kupperman, a deputy to former national security adviser  John Bolton , defied a House subpoena on Monday to testify as part of the probe, escalating the standoff between the White House, who has categorically said it will not comply with the inquiry, and Congress. 

Kupperman filed a lawsuit in federal court in Washington, DC, asking for a ruling on whether he was legally required to appear.  In a statement, Kupperman said he was awaiting "judicial clarity" on the matter. 

In a   letter   in early October, White House council Pat Cipollone said the administration would not cooperate with the probe, which he argued denied the president due process. He also said that the impeachment inquiry was not official without a House voting on it, a claim that legal experts say is incorrect, as the constitution requires no such vote to begin impeachment.

The   impeachment probe   seeks to answer whether Trump withheld nearly $400m in military aid from Ukraine in an attempt to pressure officials into investigating a gas company linked to the son of 2020 Democratic presidential hopeful Joe Biden. 

Trump has denied any wrongdoing. 

Republicans have in recent days accused Democrats of not being transparent in the investigation, also citing the lack of a vote to say the impeachment inquiry is illegitimate. 

In the letter to colleagues, Pelosi said the resolution will "affirm the ongoing, existing investigation" and lay out procedures for open hearings and the next steps going forward.

Despite the announcement,  Pelosi reiterated that the impeachment inquiry does not require the vote. 

"Of course, this argument has no merit," she said.

'Lengthy game of rope-a-dope'


Kupperman's lawsuit argues that he is stuck between the "c ompeting demands of both the legislative and executive branches".

Without the court's help, he said he would have to make the decision on which branch of government to obey, which could "inflict grave constitutional injury" on either Congress or the presidency.

"Given the issue of separation of powers in this matter, it would be reasonable and appropriate to expect that all parties would want judicial clarity," Kupperman said in a statement.

Meanwhile, House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff said  Kupperman's suit has "no basis in law". He also speculated that the White House didn't want  Kupperman   to testify because his testimony could be incriminating.

"If this witness had something to say that would be helpful to the White House, they would've wanted him to come and testify," Schiff told reporters. "They plainly don't."

Schiff said the three committees leading the impeachment inquiry will move ahead with the investigation, with or without testimony from Kupperman and other witnesses.  Democrats have indicated that they are likely to use the president's letter and the no-show witnesses to write an article of impeachment against Trump for obstruction of justice, rather than individually challenge the noncompliance in court.  

"We are not willing to allow the White House to engage us in a lengthy game of rope-a-dope in the courts, so we will move forward," Schiff said.

Two current National Security Council staff members, Alexander Vindman and Tim Morrison, are scheduled to testify before the House later this week and would be the first White House employees to testify in the inquiry.   Morrison's lawyer, Barbara Van Gelder, said in an email to the Associated Press on Monday that if Morrison is subpoenaed, he will appear.

Pivot to White House


After hearing from a series of State Department officials, the three House committees leading the impeachment investigation are turning their focus to the White House. Democrats say they are hoping to get more answers about what aides close to Trump knew about his orders on Ukraine policy.

Several State Department officials have already testified that they were  concerned about Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani's unofficial   role   in Ukraine foreign policy, and his apparent campaign to   push out   the the US ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch.

In a significant development last week, William Taylor, the current top diplomat in Ukraine,   testified   that he was told that aid to Ukraine would be withheld until the country conducted investigations into US politics. 


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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1  seeder  Vic Eldred    5 years ago

Make no mistake, this is not a vote on Articles of Impeachment - this is a vote, described by the Speaker as a step being taken "to eliminate any doubt" about the process as the White House continues its attempt to block witnesses and withhold documents.  Adam Schiff said it a little better - "We are not willing to allow the White House to engage us in a lengthy game of rope-a-dope in the courts, so we will move forward".   Democrats are apparently fearful of a Court ruling on the President's rights based on the House proceedings thus far.

The vote takes place on Thursday so let me also take time to remind voters that their recently elected representatives will be voting:

The 30 members of the New Democrat Coalition who are joining the 116th Congress and the partisan lean of their districts

DISTRICT NEW MEMBER PARTISAN LEAN
UT-4 Ben McAdams R+20
NY-22 Anthony Brindisi R+13
VA-7 Abigail Spanberger R+13
TX-7 Lizzie Fletcher R+12
NM-2 Xochtil Torres-Small R+11
TX-32 Colin Allred R+10
VA-2 Elaine Luria R+8
NY-11 Max Rose R+8
MI-8 Elissa Slotkin R+7
CA-48 Harley Rouda R+7
MI-11 Haley Stevens R+6
NV-3 Susie Lee R+6
KS-3 Sharice Davids R+5
NJ-11 Mikie Sherrill R+4
NH-1 Chris Pappas R+4
NJ-7 Tom Malinowski R+3
MN-2 Angie Craig R+2
IL-6 Sean Casten R+2
WA-8 Kim Schrier R+1
AZ-2 Ann Kirkpatrick* R+1
CA-10 Josh Harder R+1
CA-25 Katie Hill EVEN
PA-7 Susan Wild D+1
VA-10 Jennifer Wexton D+2
CO-6 Jason Crow D+4
PA-6 Chrissy Houlahan D+5
MN-3 Dean Phillips D+5
AZ-9 Greg Stanton D+8
FL-26 Debbie Mucarsel-Powell D+10
TX-16 Veronica Escobar



REMEMBER THEM AND WHAT THEY PROMISED!  GET OUT AND VOTE


 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
1.1  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    5 years ago

Then why are dispirited republicans deciding not to run...in droves?

I haven't seen many announcements by Dems quitting their races...

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
Professor Quiet
1.1.1  Dean Moriarty  replied to  JBB @1.1    5 years ago

Here’s the latest one.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
1.1.2  JBB  replied to  Dean Moriarty @1.1.1    5 years ago

CONGRESSIONAL REPUBLICANS HEADING FOR THE EXITS IN DROVES 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
2  Sean Treacy    5 years ago

Trying to impeach a President in secret was so obviously stupid that this concession was almost inevitable. "almost" is necessary because the Democrats are so caught up in an echo chamber and oblivious of reality, they may well have kept down this path. 

But some point, even Pelosi realized an impeachment process modeled after the infamous star chambers of British tyrants guaranteed Senate Republicans would vote for acquittal. Imagine how the people who spent the last few weeks defending this abuse of the system must feel after even Pelosi bowed to reality.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
2.1  MrFrost  replied to  Sean Treacy @2    5 years ago
Trying to impeach a President in secret was so obviously stupid

You know there were republicans in those hearings, so where exactly was the secret part? 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.1  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  MrFrost @2.1    5 years ago

Obviously, the American people weren't part of it. Don't they have a right to hear it?

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
2.1.2  MrFrost  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.1    5 years ago

Obviously, the American people weren't part of it. Don't they have a right to hear it?

When was the last time any investigation was done by the government that was completely available to the public? Never. But now suddenly they should be because YOU say so? Excuse me...

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
2.1.3  MrFrost  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.1    5 years ago

Obviously, the American people weren't part of it. Don't they have a right to hear it?

Hey, when trump testifies, should he do so in a public forum? 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.4  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.3    5 years ago

He should testify as Bill Clinton did.....Oh wait! that was before the Office of Independent Council !

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.5  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.2    5 years ago
Never

So, the public be damned. They can wait for Schiff to tell us what was said. Got it!

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.2  JBB  replied to  Sean Treacy @2    5 years ago

Butt, Nancy Pelosi did not have to hold a vote until the bitter end, for Trump, though this brilliant move of hers will be a massive show of the Democrat's impeachment will and of political force that will overcome Trump's lameass stall tactic objections once and for all while also shutting up all the dang olde wrongheaded rightwingers who have carped and complained about process all in one fell swoop. It is not like things are going to get better when the same witnesses Congress has questions in sworn depositions are paraded in front of the public to s pill their damning testimonies regarding Trump's multitudinous high crimes and misdemeanors. It is fixing to get way worse...for Trump!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3  seeder  Vic Eldred    5 years ago

"This could mean a number of things, whether it’s that Pelosi has finally caved to the far-left, or that Pelosi herself is so delusional that she thinks impeachment is actually a viable outcome. Neither one paints a good picture of Pelosi, who is either spineless or insane, if not both. But she is apparently willing to throw away the Democrats’ newfound House majority for this crusade; if the party does indeed face the ultimate retribution next year and loses the House once again, it would be disaster for the Democrats, and great for the rest of America."...........Sebastian Gorka

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
3.1  MrFrost  replied to  Vic Eldred @3    5 years ago

"This could mean a number of things, whether it’s that Pelosi has finally caved to the far-left, or that Pelosi herself is so delusional that she thinks impeachment is actually a viable outcome. Neither one paints a good picture of Pelosi, who is either spineless or insane, if not both. But she is apparently willing to throw away the Democrats’ newfound House majority for this crusade; if the party does indeed face the ultimate retribution next year and loses the House once again, it would be disaster for the Democrats, and great for the rest of America."...........Sebastian Gorka

Nothing but rhetoric. Gorka is a far right wing radicalized moron. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.1  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  MrFrost @3.1    5 years ago

It's not rhetoric. Pelosi is making a pay out to the more radical elements of the democratic party (the worst people in the country) at the risk of losing the House. I think it's a fair assessment. And one thing about Gorka - he sounds so diabolical, that makes it even sweater!

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
4  MrFrost    5 years ago

I love it, the left is using the laws that the right passed in 2015, and now the right is crying about it. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  MrFrost @4    5 years ago

It does have a familiar theme:

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JBB
Professor Principal
4.1.1  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1    5 years ago

Except that, Olde Joe McCarthy was not finally destroyed until it became clear to all Americans that he had no morals about or guilt regarding his destruction of all the lives, professions and reputation of hundreds and hundreds of good, honest and decent civil servants, intelligence officers and diplomats McCarthy's lousy witchhunt had ruined unfairly just like Trump and Giuliani are illegally going after all the good honest decent long serving employees of the State Department, FBI, Defense Department, CIA and other governmental agencies who are coming forward with hard damning evidence about Trump's many crimes today...

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  JBB @4.1.1    5 years ago
estroyed until it became clear to all Americans that he had no morals about or guilt regarding his destruction of all the lives, professions and reputation of hundreds and hundreds of good, honest and decent civil servants,

Good description of the modern progressive. 

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.1.3  JBB  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.2    5 years ago

Then I guess my salient points went right over you head...

It is Trump purging career civil servants from government.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.4  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @4.1.1    5 years ago
Trump and Giuliani are illegally going after all the good honest decent long serving employees of the State Department, FBI, Defense Department, CIA and other governmental agencies who are coming forward with hard damning evidence about Trump's many crimes today...

The IG appointed by Barak Obama said otherwise. If they were all so noble they should come out just fine and you shouldn't feel the need to defend them.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.1.5  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.4    5 years ago

That is what what The House UnAmerican Activities Committee said of all the good honest decent Americans who were ultimately ruined by Olde Joe McCarthy, Roy Cohn and Dick Nixon during the dark days of The McCarthy Era and it remains a shame still because, "At long last McCarthy had no decency. No decency at all"...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.6  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @4.1.5    5 years ago

Joe would have been so proud of Adam Schiff. Schiff is destined for the same fate.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
6  Snuffy    5 years ago

a question on this...   There have already been 3 votes to start the impeachment investigation in the House and all 3 failed to pass.  It's easy I think to stand in a group and demand impeachment but this will again force the individual to take a stand and put their name down with either a yes or no vote. What happens to all of this if it fails to pass again? I mean impeachment is such a political issue and these people are politicians who's first concern is always what do they have to do to be re-elected. This vote is so divisive that it has to be a scary time for them.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7  seeder  Vic Eldred    5 years ago

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Details to watch in House Democratic resolution Thursday

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
8  Nerm_L    5 years ago

We need articles of impeachment which would allow Trump to begin declassifying a lot of material.  So far all the 'concerns' have been coming from the intelligence community and the military.  Ukraine is pivotal to the national security of the United States?  Why is the intelligence community so very concerned about Ukraine?  The neo-cons are trying to gaslight the country again.

The Democrats are being manipulated by the intelligence community using national security as a political enticement.  The umbrella of national security provides political justification for secrecy, selective dissemination of information, and all too phony claims of patriotism.  The Democrats have been pursuing a political operation built around nebulous claims of national security to manipulate the public into fearing foreign control of the US government.  The red meat of a commie scare (based on urban legend) is intended to take political power away from the voters and people of the United States.

Be afraid, be very afraid.  That's what Democrats are trying to achieve by following the neo-con playbook.  The way to confront the intelligence community is through declassification and public disclosure.  And Trump does not seem constrained by precedent or the status quo of neo-con foreign policy.

Democrats are only worried about the politics of the situation.  Democrats are being guided by polling numbers; not by precedent or rule of law.  That is a weakness that can easily be exploited by the intelligence community as they have done in many third world countries.  Democrats are allowing themselves to be manipulated with a promise of a political reward.  That's how the intelligence community destabilized the Middle East.

An impeachment trial is a necessity.  Trump may not have the intestinal fortitude to do what is required.  But without an impeachment trial the civil and military intelligence agencies will only be emboldened to engage in more political manipulation of the government.  

 
 

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