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Independents souring on impeachment underscores risk for Democrats

  
Via:  Vic Eldred  •  5 years ago  •  146 comments

By:   By Jonathan Easley

Independents souring on impeachment underscores risk for Democrats
Among independents in the FiveThirtyEight average, support for impeachment topped out at 47.7 percent in late October but has sunk to 41 percent over the past three weeks. YouGov is among the polls registering that decline, with independent support for impeachment dropping from 39 percent earlier this month to 35 percent now and opposition increasing from 35 percent to 40 percent.

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New public opinion polls are moving against Democrats on impeachment as independents sour on the House inquiry and increasingly express opposition to the hearings that have consumed Washington in recent weeks.
The new data comes as a surprise to Democrats, many of whom believe witnesses have offered damning testimony about President Trump’s dealings with Ukraine.
Witnesses have testified that Trump pressed Ukraine’s leaders to conduct investigations of the energy company Burisma Holdings — which was seen as code for probes of former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden, given the younger Biden’s work for the company as a board member.
There has also been testimony that security aid for Ukraine was delayed to put more pressure on that country’s government. Other witnesses have castigated Trump for pursuing conspiracy theories that Ukraine and not Russia was a major player in electoral interference in 2016.
An impeachment vote in the House seems inevitable, but it does not appear that any GOP lawmakers will back an article of impeachment. And it remains to be seen whether voters will support the Democratic action or punish the party for going forward with impeachment.

“There’s always a disconnect between Washington and what people are thinking out in the states,” said Dick Harpootlian, the former chairman of the South Carolina Democratic Party and a surrogate for former Joe Biden’s presidential campaign.

And Democrats have some worries about impeachment fatigue.

“After three years, the country was sick of hearing about Russia, and now the average American either doesn’t understand or doesn’t care about the case we’re making on Ukraine,” said one Democratic fundraiser.

According to the FiveThirtyEight average of national polls, support for impeachment has shrunk from 50.3 percent in mid-October to 46.3 percent presently, while opposition has risen from 43.8 percent to 45.6 percent.

Among independents in the FiveThirtyEight average, support for impeachment topped out at 47.7 percent in late October but has sunk to 41 percent over the past three weeks.

YouGov is among the polls registering that decline, with independent support for impeachment dropping from 39 percent earlier this month to 35 percent now and opposition increasing from 35 percent to 40 percent.

An Emerson University survey found an even more extreme flip among independents.

In October, independents supported impeachment 48 percent to 35 percent in Emerson’s polling. In the new poll released this week, independents opposed it by a 49 percent to 34 percent margin. In that time, overall support for impeaching Trump swung from 48 percent in favor and 44 percent against to 45 percent in opposition to impeachment and 43 percent in favor.

The latest Morning Consult survey was the third poll released this week to register a flip among independents. That survey also registered a new low among all voters in favor of impeachment at 48 percent.

But perhaps most alarming for Democrats is a new survey of Wisconsin from Marquette University. In Wisconsin, a key swing state in next year’s election, Marquette found that 40 percent supported impeaching Trump and removing him from office, while 53 percent opposed it. In October, before the hearings began, support was at 44 percent and opposition was at 51 percent.

The Marquette survey found Trump leading in Wisconsin against three top Democratic challengers after trailing all of them in the previous poll.
Support for impeachment among Republicans and independents in the survey was mostly steady, but support among Democrats dropped by 7 points.

Marquette pollster Charles Franklin described the shift as modest and said it could be driven by voters viewing impeachment as an extreme measure. Franklin said that when former Gov. Scott Walker (R) was being recalled in Wisconsin, even some Democrats who despised Walker were conflicted about the recall effort and viewed it as an overreach.

“It was surprising to find that Democrats are a little less supportive of impeachment now. They appear a little less unified in their opposition,” Franklin said. “It moves the race from being a small Democratic lead that was mostly inside the margin of error to a small Trump lead that is mostly inside the margin of error and basically reaffirms Wisconsin’s status as a battleground state.”

The Marquette survey follows a New York Times–Siena College poll that found majorities in the key swing states of Michigan, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Arizona and Florida oppose removing the president from office through impeachment. Majorities or pluralities do support an investigation of Trump, however.

“All of these numbers are consistent with other trends that suggest Democrats are losing the impeachment debate, particularly in swing states and districts,” said Chris Wilson, a GOP pollster and president of WPA Intelligence.

“If the hearings have eroded support even slightly, and the national data suggests that, then this Marquette poll is completely in line with an emerging picture where impeachment is actually helping the president in key swing states,” he added.
Many Democrats are unmoved by the new data, believing that they’re doing the right thing and that impeachment will not be their core message heading into the general election anyway. On the campaign trail, the 2020 Democratic White House hopefuls rarely talk about or get asked about impeachment.

Democratic strategist Andrew Feldman pointed to recent elections in Kentucky and Louisiana, two deep-red states where Democrats won contested gubernatorial contests this month, as evidence their economic message is breaking through.
“This is an inside the Beltway conversation that’s dominating news here in Washington but I don’t put much weight in these polls because it’s not what we’re talking about in the communities where real people are concerned about health care, economic inequality and student debt,” Feldman said. “If we lose focus of those issues, we’ll be in trouble, but until then, I’m confident people understand what’s at stake and which party is working to make their lives better.”

But Republicans are crowing, believing that Democrats have made a massive miscalculation on impeachment.
Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) initially resisted calls for impeachment, worried that it might cost the party hard-won seats in districts that Trump carried in 2016.

“Pelosi didn’t want to do this. ... If you are one of those 31 Democrats running in Trump districts, you don’t want to be on the record voting for impeachment,” said one Trump campaign official.


“They are actually making the president out to be a martyr, which is not easy. American voters are a lot smarter than the Washington elites and left-stream media give them credit for. They really are. They have a pretty good BS meter, and they smell BS,” the official added.


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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1  seeder  Vic Eldred    5 years ago

"But perhaps most alarming for Democrats is a new survey of Wisconsin from Marquette University. In Wisconsin, a key swing state in next year’s election, Marquette found that 40 percent supported impeaching Trump and removing him from office, while 53 percent opposed it. In October, before the hearings began, support was at 44 percent and opposition was at 51 percent.

The Marquette survey found Trump leading in Wisconsin against three top Democratic challengers after trailing all of them in the previous poll.
Support for impeachment among Republicans and independents in the survey was mostly steady, but support among Democrats dropped by 7 points."

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
1.1  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    5 years ago

This Independent was sour on impeachment even before the Dems started their clown show for generally nothing more than petty spite. They have not been able to bring anything conclusive so far that warrants impeachment so they have resorted smear campaigns and inventing things to throw into the fray. And it amounts to desperation on their part.  If they can come up with anything that realistically warrants impeachment then go for it, juststop wasting time and taxpayer funds to prove their pathetic witch hunts. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2  Tessylo    5 years ago

The majority are for impeachment.

This 'president' needs to go!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @2    5 years ago

46% is not a majority

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1    5 years ago

Those polled in Wisconsin are not the majority.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.2  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.1    5 years ago

Sorry but you made the statement and it was false!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.3  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.2    5 years ago

Wisconsin is not the majority.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.4  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.3    5 years ago

Deflection - nobody said it was. You said "The majority are for impeachment."

You are wrong!

46% is not a majority!

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.7  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1    5 years ago
46% is not a majority

it's as good as the presidents approval numbers have ever been, which the GOP considers a mandate by the voters.

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
2.2  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Tessylo @2    5 years ago
The majority are for impeachment.

the last thing the dems want is a senate investigation...

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
3  It Is ME    5 years ago

Democrats get so excited in the " Short " term. They just have a major problem with looking at the " Long " term.

But, But, But …… It was so popular a few months ago. jrSmiley_19_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4  Tessylo    5 years ago

The 'president' is toast.  His whole damned administration also.  

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
4.1  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Tessylo @4    5 years ago
The 'president' is toast.  His whole damned administration also. 

not a chance... LOL

trump wins again in 2020 easy

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.2  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @4    5 years ago
The 'president' is toast.  His whole damned administration also.  

because this time, you really, really, really, REALLY have him, right?

Not like ALL the OTHER times you had him, huh?

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
4.3  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Tessylo @4    5 years ago

Only in your wildest dreams....

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5  Tessylo    5 years ago

This 'president' and his whole corrupt administration need to be gone yesterday!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @5    5 years ago

Lets see, the House democrats have failed to pass the USMCA or the lowering of prescription drug prices. They have obstructed the President on every measure securing the southern border or properly equipping our troops. They have accomplished little other than to send symbolic, partisan legislation to the Senate and subjecting the nation to impeachment investigations.

I think they need to be gone - as you say - yesterday!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1    5 years ago

It's Mitch, Putin's little bitch, who is not allowing any legislation to pass.  The blame falls squarely on the gop/republicans.  

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
5.1.2  It Is ME  replied to  Tessylo @5.1.1    5 years ago
It's Mitch, Putin's little bitch, who is not allowing any legislation to pass.

The "House" has to pass the list shown in the comment you tried to respond to, before the "Senate" get's it. jrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.3  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @5.1.1    5 years ago
The blame falls squarely on the gop/republicans. 

I don't think most Americans will see it that way.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.1.4  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.3    5 years ago

I do think most Americans will see it that way.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  It Is ME @5.1.2    5 years ago

Unreasonable to expect folks who don't know how Presidents are elected to understand how legislation is passed.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
5.1.6  It Is ME  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1.5    5 years ago

I always have hope. jrSmiley_100_smiley_image.jpg

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
5.1.7  Jasper2529  replied to  Tessylo @5.1.1    5 years ago
It's Mitch, Putin's little bitch, who is not allowing any legislation to pass.

Middle School Civics 101: US HoR bills must pass through the House of Representatives before moving to the US Senate for a vote. The last time I checked, Nancy Pelosi holds all of the HoR cards but it seems that she's too busy with IMPEACH delusions right now.

 
 
 
lib50
Professor Silent
5.1.8  lib50  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.1.7    5 years ago

Moscow Mitch is hoarding most of the house bills.  If gopers want action,   light a fire under his ass. 

Moscow Mitch said it himself.  He won't do jack shit.

McConnell has vowed to make the Senate a "legislative graveyard" by refusing to take up popular legislation passed by the House. McConnell bragged about being the Grim Reaper for the progressive agenda.

In May, McConnell had already blocked more than 100 pieces of House-passed legislation from coming to the Senate floor. Since then, the House has passed several major pieces of legislation that seem destined to die in McConnell's graveyard..........

..............A recent poll shows Americans overwhelmingly support many of the priorities of the House. Still, McConnell refuses to lift a finger, not even allowing the Senate to take a vote on many of these important bills.
 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.1.9  XXJefferson51  replied to  It Is ME @5.1.6    5 years ago

A vain one sadly in some cases.  

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
5.1.10  It Is ME  replied to  lib50 @5.1.8    5 years ago

Have you actually read any of those "House" Bills and Resolutions ?

HR635 is just "ONE" of the many "Great" ones put out by the "House" ! jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

"Expressing the profound sorrow of the House of Representatives on the death of the Honorable Elijah E. Cummings."

OR.....

HR 576 :

"Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives with respect to the whistleblower complaint of August 12, 2019, made to the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community."

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.1.11  Tessylo  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.1.7    5 years ago

'Middle School Civics 101: US HoR bills must pass through the House of Representatives before moving to the US Senate for a vote.'

SEE LIB50 AT 5.1.8

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
5.1.12  Jasper2529  replied to  lib50 @5.1.8    5 years ago

Perhaps you should have read comment 5.1   before posting irrelevate links about the US Senate. 

... the House democrats have failed to pass the USMCA or the lowering of prescription drug prices. They have obstructed the President on every measure securing the southern border or properly equipping our troops. They have accomplished little other than to send symbolic, partisan legislation to the Senate and subjecting the nation to impeachment investigations.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
5.1.13  Jasper2529  replied to  Tessylo @5.1.11    5 years ago
SEE LIB50 AT 5.1.8

See comments  5.1 and 5.1.12 in order to understand that the context is the HoR and not the Senate. Have a wonderful day.

 
 
 
lib50
Professor Silent
5.1.14  lib50  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.1.12    5 years ago

Can you focus on all the bills or is that too much to ask?  That is not the only bill to address the problem AND neither party has the balls to do it.   Stop acting as if republicans are spineless pussies who can't do jack unless it's presented on a red platter.   Never mind.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6  JohnRussell    5 years ago

“After three years, the country was sick of hearing about Russia, and now the average American either doesn’t understand or doesn’t care about the case we’re making on Ukraine,”

We really have no way of knowing whether this is true, partially true, or an assumption.  I dont think there are polls based on the question "are you sick of hearing about Russia"?    but it may be true that many Americans dont understand the issue. The 40% that support Trump believe clowns like Sen John Kennedy who told Chris Wallace yesterday that maybe it was Ukraine that hacked the Democratic National Committee computers in 2016. 

The entire US intelligence community concluded that Russia (Ukraine's mortal enemy) did that hacking and disseminated the stolen emails and other information.  But Trump's lackey Kennedy puts out the disinformation that it may have been Ukraine. What is a low information Trump follower to think?  Trump's entire defense to his traitorous activities is to lie and bamboozle and have stooges like Sen. Kennedy lie for him. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @6    5 years ago
We really have no way of knowing whether this is true, partially true, or an assumption. 

So, in other words, you don't dispute the polling which shows that support for impeachment is dropping?


 The 40% that support Trump believe clowns like Sen John Kennedy who told Chris Wallace yesterday that maybe it was Ukraine that hacked the Democratic National Committee computers in 2016. 

That is a sweeping generalization. I don't believe that, but I do believe that Russia wasn't the only country that tried to interfere in the US election. I also think there was Ukrainian corruption that needs to be looked at.


The entire US intelligence community concluded that Russia (Ukraine's mortal enemy) did that hacking and disseminated the stolen emails and other information.

The entire US intelligence community DID conclude that Russia hacked and disseminated stolen e-mails. They came to that conclusion based on an investigation by sources other than their own. They NEVER concluded that the Ukraine didn't also collude. One could easily be of the opinion that Russia had it's interests invested in interference just as the Ukraine had it's interests at play.


But Trump's lackey Kennedy puts out the disinformation that it may have been Ukraine. What is a low information Trump follower to think?  Trump's entire defense to his traitorous activities is to lie and bamboozle and have stooges like Sen. Kennedy lie for him. 

Kennedy's opinions are his own. Retiring Texas congressman Will Hurd said that he thought Trump's conversation was inappropriate, yet failed to equal an impeachable offense. That will be the official stand of the GOP - mark my words!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1    5 years ago

Then there are those on social media sites such as discussion forums similar to this one who try to do their small part to help bamboozle on Trump's behalf. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1.2  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.1    5 years ago

Oh well, John, there are a lot of bamboozlers who hate Trump too!

jrSmiley_82_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
6.1.3  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1    5 years ago
Retiring Texas congressman Will Hurd said that he thought Trump's conversation was inappropriate, yet failed to equal an impeachable offense. That will be the official stand of the GOP - mark my words!

Do you actually think that Trump will let anyone up for reelection in the GOP get away with stating that he has done ANYTHING 'inappropriate'? 

IMHO, if you're going to be on the receiving end of Trump's wrath, you might as well vote based on your conscience rather than on your party. Hell, in for a penny, in for a pound.  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1.4  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @6.1.3    5 years ago
Do you actually think that Trump will let anyone up for reelection in the GOP get away with stating that he has done ANYTHING 'inappropriate'? 

It is out of his hands. The position that the call was inappropriate, yet less than an impeachable offense is the inevitable landing place for Republicans. There is no alternative for any of them.


IMHO, if you're going to be on the receiving end of Trump's wrath

Trump's wrath does not go so far as to replace a Republican with a democrat. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
6.1.5  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.4    5 years ago
It is out of his hands.

It was the day that he came up with this abomination. 

The position that the call was inappropriate, yet less than an impeachable offense is the inevitable landing place for Republicans. There is no alternative for any of them.

Yet NONE of them has the balls to answer the simple question: Is it appropriate for a POTUS to ask a foreign country to investigate a political rival? 

Trump's wrath does not go so far as to replace a Republican with a democrat.

Never said it did. Those already in office have the goal of their OWN re-election.

BTW, impeachment and a guilty verdict doesn't go as far as replacing Trump with a Democrat either. 

 
 
 
KDMichigan
Junior Participates
6.1.6  KDMichigan  replied to  Dulay @6.1.5    5 years ago
Is it appropriate for a POTUS to ask a foreign country to investigate a political rival? 

Why yes it is appropriate to investigate corruption in the previous administration. Just because one of them happens to be running for President I don't give a rats ass.

You are looking at possibly millions of dollars being laundered back in to democrats hands, that is millions of tax payer dollars. 

Why are Democrats so scared of investigating corruption if there is nothing to investigate?

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
6.1.7  Dulay  replied to  KDMichigan @6.1.6    5 years ago
Why yes it is appropriate to investigate corruption in the previous administration.

Why post a reply that pretends to answer my question? 

Just because one of them happens to be running for President I don't give a rats ass.

Actually, BOTH of them are running for President yet only one has the power to make demands of foreign nations. 

You are looking at possibly millions of dollars being laundered back in to democrats hands, that is millions of tax payer dollars. 

Where did that fairy tale come from? 

Why are Democrats so scared of investigating corruption if there is nothing to investigate?

As multiple witnesses stated under oath, there is an official Treaty process for requesting assistance from Ukraine in LEGAL investigations. Trump didn't use it then and he hasn't used it now.

As Sondland said, he didn't believe that the goal WAS and actual investigation, just the announcement of one to use for RW soundbites.

Trump isn't about investigating corruption, Trump is about getting Zelensky on the record announcing an investigation of the Bidens for Trump's political gain.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
6.1.9  Dulay  replied to  XDm9mm @6.1.8    5 years ago
Do try to keep up.  Representative Hurd is NOT//NOT running for re-election.  

When Vic said:

That will be the official stand of the GOP - mark my words!

he wasn't talking about Hurd and neither was I. 

He obviously wants to go out in the real world and cash in on his contacts.

So you think he's all about the Benjamins. Got ya. 

 
 
 
KDMichigan
Junior Participates
6.1.11  KDMichigan  replied to  Dulay @6.1.7    5 years ago
Where did that fairy tale come from? 

256

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1.12  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @6.1.5    5 years ago
Yet NONE of them has the balls to answer the simple question: Is it appropriate for a POTUS to ask a foreign country to investigate a political rival? 

You keep ignoring Will Hurd's comments. How many times did I refer to them on this very seed?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
6.1.13  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.12    5 years ago

Who is Will Hurd?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1.14  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.12    5 years ago

So we should just forget about Trump's crimes because a Republican congressman says its not enough?

Trump fucked up, tried to cheat at the election, and got caught.  It will play out. 

Frankly, no one with his record of trying to interfere with elections " Russia if you can find her emails" should even be running for office. There are hundreds of Republicans in Congress and many more in state government. One of them should be able to lead the GOP ticket next year. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.1.15  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @6.1.13    5 years ago
Who is Will Hurd?

Seriously?

LMFAO!

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
6.1.16  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.12    5 years ago
You keep ignoring Will Hurd's comments. How many times did I refer to them on this very seed?

You keep hanging your hat on ONE Republican who isn't running for re-election. 

Oh and BTFW, Hurd wasn't asked that question. He offered his assessment in the Open hearings by saying in part:

“I believe both statements were inappropriate, misguided foreign policy, and it certainly is not how an executive currently or in the future should handle such a call"

So you see, even Hurd is still trying desperately to pretend that the 'favor' was part of a 'foreign policy' position, which is utter bullshit. 

Name a GOP elected official or candidate who has answered that question cogently. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
6.1.17  Dulay  replied to  KDMichigan @6.1.11    5 years ago

So you've got nothing but a meme to support your bullshit. Not surprised. 

 
 
 
lib50
Professor Silent
6.1.18  lib50  replied to  KDMichigan @6.1.6    5 years ago

Actually it is NOT legal to have a foreign gov't investigate a political rival while extorting their cooperation by holding US mandated funds for them illegally,  that is an abuse of power.  Damaging the USA, by the way, deal with that.  Did you know Tucker is praising Putin and Russia now, over Ukraine?   Well done, puppets, well done.  Advantage Putin.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7  Tessylo    5 years ago

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
Professor Quiet
7.1  Dean Moriarty  replied to  Tessylo @7    5 years ago

Yes just like Vic's article says support peaked in late October look at the date of your article. Since then it has gone down. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Dean Moriarty @7.1    5 years ago

Don't really care.  In my mind, in most minds, those who do not support this 'president' and who do support impeachment is way higher than 46%.

Again, Wisconsin, is not the majority.  

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
Professor Quiet
7.1.2  Dean Moriarty  replied to  Tessylo @7.1.1    5 years ago

Not if you follow the link in the article you posted.  The link in your article is now showing 46.3 percent support and shows the decline in support. The link in your article is not only Wisconsin. 

800

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
7.1.3  Sean Treacy  replied to  Tessylo @7.1.1    5 years ago

Don't really care

that you don’t really care that you continue to post false information is the least surprising thing I’ve ever seen.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.4  Tessylo  replied to  Dean Moriarty @7.1.2    5 years ago

See 7.1

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @7.1.1    5 years ago
Don't really care.  In my mind, in most minds, those who do not support this 'president' and who do support impeachment is way higher than 46%.

We are talking poll numbers--not your feelings.

prove it if you dare to even try!

Again, Wisconsin, is not the majority.  

No one claimed it was. What is your point?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.2  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @7    5 years ago

According to some old polls, Hillary will be elected in 2016!

Still believing them, too?

 
 
 
KDMichigan
Junior Participates
7.2.1  KDMichigan  replied to  Texan1211 @7.2    5 years ago
Still believing them, too?

256

I'm going with a affirmative on that.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
8  1stwarrior    5 years ago

The thread shows, in my opinion, three very factual statements -

“There’s always a disconnect between Washington and what people are thinking out in the states,”

I don’t put much weight in these polls because it’s not what we’re talking about in the communities where real people are concerned about health care, economic inequality and student debt,” Feldman said. “If we lose focus of those issues, we’ll be in trouble, but until then, I’m confident people understand what’s at stake and which party is working to make their lives better.”

"American voters are a lot smarter than the Washington elites and left-stream media give them credit for. They really are. They have a pretty good BS meter, and they smell BS,”

Too bad the politicians aren't paying attention to the people - we are the ones who put them in office and we sure as hell can take them out.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1  JohnRussell  replied to  1stwarrior @8    5 years ago
"American voters are a lot smarter than the Washington elites and left-stream media give them credit for. They really are. They have a pretty good BS meter, and they smell BS,”

Actually , American voters are very easily manipulated by show biz pizazz , blowhard personality, and the rich.  Donald Trump is basically a television personality who hosted a game show.  As a businessman he was a massive failure until he found he could market his image as a larger than life blowhard wheeler dealer. 

He is without doubt the least qualified person to ever hold the office of president. That in and of itself speaks incredibly badly of our country. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
8.1.1  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1    5 years ago
American voters are very easily manipulated

They are so fortunate to have you to show them the folly of voting for their beliefs.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
8.1.2  1stwarrior  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1    5 years ago

24/7 John - 24/7 - he eats your brain out.

I, personally, prefer to have golf on my mind 24/7 - much easier to understand and way much less stressful.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.3  JohnRussell  replied to  1stwarrior @8.1.2    5 years ago
I, personally, prefer to have golf on my mind 24/7 - much easier to understand and way much less stressful.

1st, you support the worst, most personally corrupt president in US history. Thats your problem, not mine. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
8.1.4  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.3    5 years ago
1st, you support the worst, most personally corrupt president in US history. Thats your problem, not mine. 

Gee, that is a little contradictory to your usual rants about Trump supporters. You don't ACT or WRITE like being a Trump supporter is THEIR problem--you act like it is a personal affront to you!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
8.1.5  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  1stwarrior @8.1.2    5 years ago
24/7 John - 24/7 - he eats your brain out.

"It is easy to hate and it is difficult to love. This is how the whole scheme of things works. All good things are difficult to achieve; and bad things are very easy to get.....Confucius

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.1.6  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @8.1.4    5 years ago

It should be a personal affront to any decent sane person.  

Which leaves out the gop and the majority of republicans.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.7  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @8.1.4    5 years ago

Just on this one small site we see numerous people lie on behalf of Donald Trump every day. It is inexplicable. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
8.1.9  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.7    5 years ago
Just on this one small site we see numerous people

Just on this one small site we see incredibly naked hatred every day!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
8.1.10  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.7    5 years ago
Just on this one small site we see numerous people lie on behalf of Donald Trump every day. It is inexplicable. 

Prove that!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
8.1.11  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @8.1.6    5 years ago
It should be a personal affront to any decent sane person. 

What part is the personal affront?


That he won the 2016 election?

He spoke for the millions who were ignored and called clingers & deplorables?

Or that he accomplished so much despite the rotten resistance?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.13  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @8.1.9    5 years ago

I don't hate Donald Trump.  I dont hate much of anyone and certainly never someone that I do not personally know. 

When Trump began to run for president in 2015 I spent some time looking into him. One of the first things I learned is that every writer that had ever written an objective profile of him had concluded that he was a narcissistic asshole.  Then of course there was the fact that he was the king birther in 2011.  Trump was selling himself as someone who knew how to get things done. But in 2011, when he was peddling the conspiracy theory that Obama wasnt born inHawaii, all he would have had to do to find the truth was call the governor's office in that state. By 2011 the state of Hawaii had already, twice, publicly announced that Obama's original long form birth certificate had been inspected by the head of the Hawaii Dept of Health , and all was in order.  That is all trump would have neede to do to resolve his questions. That is what a good "businessman" would have done. The governor's office inHawaii was answering that question for the media or other inquirers. Instead Trump conducted a months long conspiracy circus. 

He's not presidential material. 

Of course I learned many other things about Trump that apparently many of his supporters dont know. He is a corrupt businessman. He didnt pay his bills. When he declared bankruptcy he payed himself large bonuses first and had his investors eat that cost when the company went bankrupt.  He gave his name to a couple multi level marketing schemes, other wise known as pyramid schemes. 

So I did not hate Trump, I just learned a little about him and relaized he's not fit to lead America.  Of course since 2015-2016 things have gotten increasingly worse. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
8.1.14  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @8.1.6    5 years ago
Which leaves out the gop and the majority of republicans.  

Yet more left-wing babble.

All hype, no substance.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
8.1.15  XXJefferson51  replied to  Vic Eldred @8.1.11    5 years ago

All the above!

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
8.1.16  1stwarrior  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.3    5 years ago

John - as I've told you numerous times, I didn't vote for nor do I support the individual named Trump.  I voted for one of the other 16 nominees for President - and, no, it wasn't Hillary.  I support the office of the President of the United States, regardless of who holds that office title.

Is that really too hard for you to understand?  Try it - you might like it.  I still prefer to have golf on my mind 24/7 'cause politics purely sux.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
8.1.19  Dulay  replied to  Release The Kraken @8.1.12    5 years ago

I see you chose not to 'preemptibely reply' with "Prove it" is not a response to inspire dialogue...".

Guess that's only for members you disagree with. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
8.1.20  Texan1211  replied to  Release The Kraken @8.1.12    5 years ago
BTFW Obtuse.......
lol I thought I'd head off that reply preemptively.

Good one.

The usual suspects will whine, though.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9  Tessylo    5 years ago

[DELETED]

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
10  Sean Treacy    5 years ago

The reports are moderate democrats are worried about even holding an impeachment vote, not moderate republicans. Impeachment has created a political problem for democrat, rather than trump.  I think he has a better chance of being re-elected  now then he has had pretty much since he was sworn in.

Pelosi has to go through with impeachment, because the moon bats on the extreme left who control the party will explode if she doesn’t, but it will be just another partisan waste of time.  Th only interesting thing to see will be how many democrats defect and how close to 218 the final impeachment vote is.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
10.1  Texan1211  replied to  Sean Treacy @10    5 years ago

Trump has been president for almost 3 years now, and has been threatened with impeachment since day 1.

Now, at this time so close to the election, many might feel as if the Dems should be able to defeat him at the polls instead of impeachment.

Funny if impeachment costs the Dems some seats!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
10.2  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sean Treacy @10    5 years ago
Impeachment has created a political problem for democrat, rather than trump.

It was a paradox for Madame Speaker.....Should she risk holding on to her Speaker position or risk the House itself?  So much pressure!  A real bad way to make a choice.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
11  Tessylo    5 years ago

Funny if impeachment costs the Dems some seats!

It won't.  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
11.1  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @11    5 years ago
It won't.  

So says Nostradamus!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
11.2  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @11    5 years ago
Funny if impeachment costs the Dems some seats! It won't

You also thought Hillary would be your president, that Trump would have us in new wars, the economy would tank, unemployment would rise, that the EC wouldn't elect Trump, that Trump wouldn't last 3 months, 6 months, a year, his first term, etc.

But hey, Wisconsin isn't the majority!

LMAO!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
12  Tessylo    5 years ago

'You also thought Hillary would be your president, that Trump would have us in new wars, the economy would tank, unemployment would rise, that the EC wouldn't elect Trump, that Trump wouldn't last 3 months, 6 months, a year, his first term, etc.'

I never said any of those things.

Truth is, Hillary should have been 'president'

The fix was in.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
12.1  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @12    5 years ago
Truth is, Hillary should have been 'president'

So the loser should win? Weird shit there.

The fix was in.

Left wing hysteria. Unsupported, as usual, with facts.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
12.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @12.1    5 years ago

The loser did 'win'

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
12.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @12.1.1    5 years ago
The loser did 'win'

Maybe so in Liberal La La Land. Not so much in the real world.

 
 
 
KDMichigan
Junior Participates
12.1.3  KDMichigan  replied to  Texan1211 @12.1    5 years ago
o the loser should win? Weird shit there.

Just imagine what the snowflake left is going to do if they lose again. 

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
12.2  Jasper2529  replied to  Tessylo @12    5 years ago
Truth is, Hillary should have been 'president'

Miss Popularity lost the EC, Tessy. 

The fix was in.  

Bernie Sanders knows all about the Dem Party's 2016 "fix".

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
12.2.1  Texan1211  replied to  Jasper2529 @12.2    5 years ago
Miss Popularity lost the EC, Tessy. 

Well, yeah, but doesn't that count for something or other?

LMFO!!

Go easy--I think it is her week to keep the Second Place, Popular Vote "Winner"*** trophy all shined up nicely for Abuela.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
13  evilone    5 years ago

The Dems have proven without doubt that Trump and his Administration have broken ethics, standard and laws. Unfortunately not enough of Republican & (more importantly) Independent voters care to sway votes in the Senate. The good news for Dems is they haven't caused any damage to themselves in 2020 by losing in the Senate. They'll continue to use all this (as will Republicans) for fundraising and advertising in the run-up to the 2020 election. 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
15  Dismayed Patriot    5 years ago

First it was...

"The whistleblower is a partisan liar! No quid pro quo!"

...then, after hours of compelling testimony...

"The whistleblower is a partisan! Sure, the things they said were accurate and there may have been pro, there may have been quo but there was no quid! And even if there was, the President didn't know about it!"

...then after the Republican star witness ambassador Sondland's testimony "Yes, there was quid pro quo" and "everyone, including the President, were in the loop"...

"So there was quid pro quo, and the President knew about it, and it's wrong, and we'd impeach any other President for doing such a thing... but it's not an impeachable offense for this President because Democrats have been trying to impeach him for a while, so if they find impeachable offenses we should ignore them, because, you know, Democrats, and um, ABORTION! Yeah! RELIGIOUS FREEDOM! SOCIALISM! THEY WANT TO TAKE OUR GUNS! ARRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! MUST NOT HOLD ACCOUNTABLE! MUST NOT HOLD ACCOUNTABLE!...".

Even if Putin released the pee tape, at this point Trump loyalists will just claim it was a "deep fake" from the "deep state" just so they can continue to believe in their preferred lie. There really is no doubt this President deserves to be impeached. The fact is, his supporters just don't care about the rule of law anymore. They feel as if they've been cheated by the establishment, so when their guy gets caught cheating they shrug their shoulders and snidely reply "So what? All politicians lie and cheat, this guy is lying and cheating for US! So we're going to keep supporting him!".

The sad fact of Trump supporters lawlessness is not news, Trump himself pointed out how either lawless or ignorant of the law his followers were when he stated “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and wouldn’t lose any voters, okay? It’s, like, incredible.”.

Now, with his clear use of the office for personal political gain, he metaphorically shot someone in the middle of 5th Ave and his supporters, just as he predicted, shrugged their shoulders and said "So what?".

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
15.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @15    5 years ago

What all this impeachment stuff does is basically prove how dumb many Trump supporters are. 

Dumb or dishonest.  What a choice. 

A half dozen non partisan U.S. foreign service officials testified under oath that they knew of a quid pro quo scheme to produce dirt on Trump's political opponents, a scheme that was alluded to in Trump's own words (on the phone call with Zelensky) , and we still have all sorts of Trump fans saying nothing happened. 

Dumb or dishonest. 

 
 
 
lib50
Professor Silent
15.1.1  lib50  replied to  JohnRussell @15.1    5 years ago
Dumb or dishonest. 

Both

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
15.1.2  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @15.1    5 years ago
and we still have all sorts of Trump fans saying nothing happened. 

You keep persisting with that. I told you what congressman Will Hurd said. The conversation was inappropriate, but not an impeachable offense. That is the stand I have taken as well!

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
17  Perrie Halpern R.A.    5 years ago

Vic,

Regardless how I feel about impeachment, I have stopped believing in polls... the last election should have shown that well. 

Here is one big flaw.. most are done on landlines only. How many people don't have landlines anymore? I would say anyone under 50.

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
17.1  Colour Me Free  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @17    5 years ago
I have stopped believing in polls

Amen!

Hello Perrie … Hope all is good with you...  

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
17.1.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Colour Me Free @17.1    5 years ago

Hey Color! Good to see you my friend! Life goes on here. Hope you have been well, too. 

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
17.1.2  Colour Me Free  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @17.1.1    5 years ago

I have enjoyed wandering around your site this morning .. it has been a while!

Life goes on here as well, I am finally feeling like myself again (scary I know) … so good to read you again : )

Sorry Vic … my bad!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
17.1.4  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Colour Me Free @17.1.2    5 years ago

I hear ya!

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
17.1.5  Colour Me Free  replied to    5 years ago
Sorry Vic..it's all her fault!

I see how things are now!

Good to see you, and good to be seen …  Winter?  Interesting, : ) you must live in the desert?  Happy Holidays my friend.

Vic, he made me do it!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
17.2  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @17    5 years ago

Here is one big flaw.. most are done on landlines only. How many people don't have landlines anymore? I would say anyone under 50.

 

Agreed. Here's another big flaw - many Trump supporters are afraid of physical harm or harassment if they admit to being Trump supporters in any way. Another flaw - the polling sometimes is flawed via not canvassing enough independents. You are also right about what polling taught us last time, however the polling is very important for Pelosi going forward, don't you think?

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
17.2.1  Colour Me Free  replied to  Vic Eldred @17.2    5 years ago
the polling sometimes is flawed via not canvassing enough independents

I question if there is enough sampling done to obtain a good representation of the issues at hand .. when one reads the fine print, it can be as low as 300 people surveyed.

Many moons ago I worked on the Ross Perot campaign.  I headed up the phone surveying.  After a campaign meeting, I returned to the office to find the phone crew filling out the survey questionnaires with no one on the phone .. I should have caught it sooner - the number of calls were higher whenever I was not in my office!  Polls can be manipulated easily!

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
17.2.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @17.2    5 years ago
many Trump supporters are afraid of physical harm or harassment if they admit to being Trump supporters in any way.

I have been polled by republican groups and independent groups so, I don't think so. But I do think that people are not always honest in polling. 

however the polling is very important for Pelosi going forward, don't you think?

IDK? How so?

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
17.2.3  Jasper2529  replied to  Colour Me Free @17.2.1    5 years ago
 it [polling] can be as low as 300 people surveyed.
Polls can be manipulated easily!

That's why I never comment on posts that only rely on "polls". The only relatively accurate poll is on election day ... and we even have evidence of those votes being manipulated.

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
17.2.5  Colour Me Free  replied to  Jasper2529 @17.2.3    5 years ago

I tend to ignore all polls .. I do not say my team won, until the final 2 minutes of the game have run off the clock either!

Of all the polls, exit polls are accurate(ish) .. yet once again it comes down to sampling, .. in my opinion 

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
17.2.7  Colour Me Free  replied to  XDm9mm @17.2.6    5 years ago
 Most people don't want to advertise who they voted for, and in some places that can actually put them in a degree of danger.

Cannot argue with that .. especially in the era of Trump...!   

Thank you XD and a Safe Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours .. : )

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
17.2.8  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  XDm9mm @17.2.4    5 years ago
I've never had a pollster indicate what side of the political spectrum they're canvassing for.   Maybe that's a NY thing.

I have been told outright and told when I have inquired. IDK if it is a NY thing or not. Try asking and see what happens.

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
17.3  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @17    5 years ago
Here is one big flaw.. most are done on landlines only.

I brought that up in 2016 when I said the polls were full of schit.

everyone on the left laughed...  then trump won

good fun :)

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
17.3.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @17.3    5 years ago

But logic would dictate that they younger the demographic the more likely to have voted liberally.. so obviously people lied. 

Or the group was too small a sampling?

More problems with polls

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
17.3.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @17.3.1    5 years ago

The idea that national presidential polls are wrong is a myth.  National polling is usually pretty accurate. State polling that is not done to the same standards has had problems here and there

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
17.3.3  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @17.3.1    5 years ago
More problems with polls

polls can get any result the pollsters desire/

the only poll that is truly accurate will be taken on election day

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
17.3.4  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  JohnRussell @17.3.2    5 years ago
National polling is usually pretty accurate.

accurate only if the USA was a democracy. 

your state is a democracy, the federal govt is not.

the national majority means nothing in a federal election

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
18  seeder  Vic Eldred    5 years ago

It appears that some refuse to accept the idea that support for impeachment is diminishing. It also looks like some can't admit that Republicans can condemn the President's conversation as inappropriate yet not an impeachable offense. 

 
 

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