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Senate democrats vote against aid for America

  
By:  Vic Eldred  •  4 years ago  •  183 comments


Senate democrats vote against aid for America
“The legislation has many problems,” Schumer said on the Senate floor after the vote. “At the top of the list, it included a large corporate bailout with no protections for workers and virtually no oversight. Also very troubling, the bill had significant shortfalls of money that our hospitals, states, cities and medical workers desperately needed. This is a public health crisis. It is inexplicable to skimp on funding to address the pandemic.”

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We the People

Senate democrats voted against starting debate on a $1.8 trillion Coronavirus aid package on Sunday. The action forces the Senate back to square one. That is bad news for Americans and small businesses now either out of work or shut down. Aid and economic stimulus requires swift action. It appears that the dems are not ready for that.

The vote by democrats was unanimous. The bill (emergency legislation) would need the prescribed 60 votes to pass.The tally was 47-47. The dems were unified and ready. This wasn't spontaneous. It was carefully orchestrated by minority leader Chuck Schumer.

The Senate Leader was furious:

“The notion that we have time to play games here with the American economy and the American people is utterly absurd “The American people expect us to act tomorrow, and I want everybody to fully understand if we aren’t able to act tomorrow, it will be because of our colleagues on the other side continuing to dither when the country expects us to come together and address this problem.”... Mitch McConnell



The Treasury Secretary is meeting with the leaders of both the House and Senate as the list of demands continues to grow.

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The Senate will vote for a second time after they come into session at noon on Monday as the Stock Market reels.


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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1  author  Vic Eldred    4 years ago

If you are out of work or had to close your business because of the China virus your'e just going to have to suffer a bit longer!


Rules of civility apply

Trump is off topic

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.1  XXJefferson51  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    4 years ago

They just now did it again.  It seems they believe all Americans must suffer if there is any relief for employers in a bill. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.1.1  Sparty On  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.1    4 years ago

And to tell you how bad it really is, it sounds like Dick Durbin was trying to be the voice of reason coming from the left ..... Dick Durbin!

Amazing

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
1.1.2  cjcold  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.1    4 years ago

When the GOP continually sends money to their multinational billionaire corporate masters and very little to We the People, the USA suffers. Seems ALEC and the Koch philosophy of "all for the rich and none for Americans" was having a negative impact on the American economy even before the coronavirus.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
1.1.3  1stwarrior  replied to  cjcold @1.1.2    4 years ago

The $2 Trillion Rescue Bill

--Direct aid to Americans $1,200 per adult; $500 per child; maximum $3000 per family. Income limit of $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for couples.

--Adds $600 per week to state unemployment benefits for four months.

--Adds 13 weeks of unemployment benefits to the 39 weeks already available. Goes through 2020 and is retroactive to Jan 27. Includes coverage for gig workers and independent contractors

--$350 billion goes to small businesses to keep making payroll.

--Companies with 500 or less employees can get up to $10 million in forgivable small business loans for employers to make payroll for 8 weeks. If they make payroll, company costs including mortgage interest, rent and utilities will be forgiven

--$242 billion goes toward fighting the virus and safety net programs including food stamps, child nutrition, hospitals, CDC, public health and transportation agencies.

--$15.6 added specifically to food stamps

--$500 billion in LOANS to large affected industries including airlines. The loans would have to be repaid. There are limits on stock buybacks and a two-year limit on executive pay. (In 2002, airline executives took bailout money and immediately created bankruptcy proof retirement plans for a small number of executives. They were called before Congress and restrictions on executive compensation, bonuses, etc. were put on subsequent bailout money.)

--Delays payroll tax payments by employers for 2020 to 2021 and 2022

The Democrats want:
--more restrictions on stock buybacks and executive pay.
--increased collective bargaining powers for unions
--airlines to reduce their carbon footprint (Delta has 600 planes parked so they are unfortunately complying)
--expanding wind and solar tax credits
--$200 increase in social security benefits

The Republicans want:
--no Green Deal parts interjected into this bill as it should be reserved for workers and affected companies to get through this crisis
--collective bargaining powers for unions removed—this can be debated later.
--wind and solar tax credits are not time-sensitive for saving the economy and devastated industries. 88 employees are required to support and keep a Delta plane flying. Presently there are 600 Delta planes parked. That should be addressed immediately, not expanding tax credits for industries minimally affected.

Now, show me where "We the People" would suffer under the Senate bill.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
1.1.4  cjcold  replied to  cjcold @1.1.2    4 years ago

It's way past time for the GOP billionaires to start caring for We the People as much as they care for their bloated bank accounts earned on our labor!

Maybe it is time for those who claim to be Americans to pay taxes on the money they earn instead of hiding their profits offshore just like Trump brags about.

"Only the little people pay taxes" according to Trump.

Hey billionaires it's time to give something back to the country that you raped for its natural resources and that made you filthy rich in the process. 

Seems your fellow Americans could use a little help right about now.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
1.1.5  cjcold  replied to  1stwarrior @1.1.3    4 years ago

We both know that your rosy view of the senate bill would harm the vast majority of Americans while giving everything to the rich. 

The offhand destruction of wind and solar tax credits is unconscionable.

Airplanes are parked because nobody wants to get into one right now.

Sure glad I live out here on the prairie with a fully stocked larder. 

(Problem being I have plenty of food for a month or two but forgot to stock up on beer and smokes enough for that long of a hermitage). Once again into the breach! Damn the torpedoes; full steam ahead! I'll hold my breath and try not to touch anything but the Pall Malls, the cases of beer and the fifths of Tequila.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2  author  Vic Eldred    4 years ago

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Democrats are now writing their own bill in the House. 

Does everyone see what is going on here?

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.2  Ozzwald  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    4 years ago

Does everyone see what is going on here?

So it is okay for the Republicans to write a bill of their own, but not the Democrats?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.2.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ozzwald @2.2    4 years ago

And after the Senate canceled recess to work at breakneck speed, Pelosi just waltzes in, after the House has been on a week long vacation, and says they’re going to do it. 

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.2.3  Ozzwald  replied to  Release The Kraken @2.2.2    4 years ago

Americans need money to eat, not to f*ck.

I suggest you take a closer look at why the Democrats voted against it then.  Unless, in your mind, Americans = corporations.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.2.5  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ozzwald @2.2.3    4 years ago

Dems demanding new union bargaining powers, solar tax credits in new coronavirus aid package

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Congressional Democrats are demanding an “ideological wish list” including new collective bargaining powers for unions as they hold up a nearly $2 trillion economic package of coronavirus relief, Republicans said Monday.

The Democrats’ belated list of demands includes new, tighter fuel emission standards for airlines and an expansion of wind and solar tax credits, a senior Republican aide said.

“As Leader Schumer continues to hold up the desperately-needed relief package, the last-minute list of demands from Pelosi’s and Schumer’s ideological wish list are coming into focus,” the aide said of Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer of New York and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/mar/23/dems-demanding-new-union-bargaining-powers-solar-t/?

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.2.6  Ozzwald  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.5    4 years ago
Dems demanding new union bargaining powers, solar tax credits in new coronavirus aid package

You're being dishonest here Vic.  I asked Fish to look at why they voted against the Republican bill?  What was in it they disagreed with.  You're trying to deflect again.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.2.7  Ozzwald  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.5    4 years ago
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/mar/23/dems-demanding-new-union-bargaining-powers-solar-t/?

It is amazing how the Washington Times is reporting on something that has not yet finished being written.  Can you explain how they do that Vic?

Washington Times

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MBFCMixed.png?resize=355%2C131&ssl=1

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.2.9  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ozzwald @2.2.6    4 years ago

You asked Fish?  And what did he say?

I'm telling you what they want - their own bill out of the House. I called it for you!

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
2.2.10  1stwarrior  replied to  Ozzwald @2.2.6    4 years ago

Hmmmm - Nancy immediately stating that it was a "Non-Starter".  Kinda tells ya what they're against - the Republicans and President.

Pelosi wrote in a letter to her Democratic colleagues. “As written, it is a non-starter.”

The Democratic leader added that the new bill must “put money directly into the hands of those who need it most.”

McConnell unveiled Senate Republicans’ package on Thursday. Under the proposal, individuals would receive cash payments of up to $1,200, while couples would receive up to $2,400. The payments begin to phase out for those earning $75,000.

So, the Dems think that the money being given to individuals is not for those who need it most????

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.2.11  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ozzwald @2.2.7    4 years ago
It is amazing how the Washington Times is reporting on something that has not yet finished being written.

Why? They are only reporting on what democrats want in the bill. Are you disputing what the democrats want? You are going to go on the record right here -  the Democrats haven't added a list of demands including new, tighter fuel emission standards for airlines and an expansion of wind and solar tax credits?

Go ahead make that claim!


BTW we don't need that nonsense NT is using to define where news organizations lean. Facts are facts regardless of who reports them!

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.2.13  Ozzwald  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.9    4 years ago
I'm telling you what they want

You are telling me nothing about what I asked.  Like I said deflection.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.2.14  Ozzwald  replied to  Release The Kraken @2.2.8    4 years ago
You wrong! So very Wong!

Am I?

Republicans want to give large corporations 500 billion of the stimulus money with no guarantees they won't just use it to buy back stock, or give executives a bigger bonus.  Do you agree it should be just given out with no requirements attached?  How did TARP work out?

Fight over $500 billion corporate loan funding holds up coronavirus stimulus

His remarks came as Democrats negotiated late into the night with top Trump administration officials over the details of a possible deal. There are numerous sticking points, including restrictions on corporate bailouts and the scope of assistance to state and local governments.

Republicans are arguing for more money and less restrictions given to already filthy rich corporations.  Democrats are arguing for more money going to small businesses and individuals.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.2.15  Ozzwald  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.11    4 years ago
Why? They are only reporting on what democrats want in the bill.

Based on a bill they haven't seen?  Weren't you claiming earlier that Pelosi was trying to secretly insert abortion funds into another bill without being able to show one iota of evidence to back it up?  Is this the same thing from you?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.16  Tessylo  replied to  Release The Kraken @2.2.2    4 years ago

Wow I really missed you!

😉

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.2.17  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.16    4 years ago

You were missed too

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.2.18  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ozzwald @2.2.15    4 years ago
Based on a bill they haven't seen? 

They negotiated everything in there!!!!


 Weren't you claiming earlier that Pelosi was trying to secretly insert abortion funds into another bill without being able to show one iota of evidence to back it up?

She was and I did. The Treasury Secretary worked those issues out of that Bill - that was the first Bill. This is a follow up Bill coming out of the Senate. There should be three parts to all of this.


Is this the same thing from you?

Yes, I'm always here with the facts. I know it sucks for progressives, but I'm not going to stop!

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.2.19  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.16    4 years ago

Hey good to know you're OK

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.2.20  Ozzwald  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.18    4 years ago
Yes, I'm always here with the facts.

Then why are you completely unable to substantiate your "facts"?  At least we get some conspiracy websites from other posters.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.2.21  XXJefferson51  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.11    4 years ago

Exactly that site is pure bs fully deserving of the universal conservative contempt for it. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
2.3  Greg Jones  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    4 years ago
Does everyone see what is going on here?

Yep! They want to add all kinds of pork to this bill to enrich themselves when the threat lessens.

Never for a moment can they resist play politics, even when the American people are in dire need of its swift passage.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.3.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Greg Jones @2.3    4 years ago

"She's the Speaker of the House, not the Speaker of the Senate. We don't have one. We were doing just fine until that intervention," McConnell added.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
2.4  Jasper2529  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    4 years ago
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Democrats are now writing their own bill in the House. 

She probably has some of those impeachment pens left over and wants to use them.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
2.5  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    4 years ago

Yes, and it scares the Hell out of most sane thinking non liberal non Democrats Americans! 

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
2.6  1stwarrior  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    4 years ago

512

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.6.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  1stwarrior @2.6    4 years ago

We are going to be doing it her way!

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3  Sparty On    4 years ago

Its only partisan blackmail intended to hurt Trump .... pure and simple.

They don't really care about the American people they hurt in the process.   Not really .....

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sparty On @3    4 years ago
They don't really care about the American people they hurt in the process.   Not really .....

There isn't really any other way to look at it:

The one good to come out of congressional Democrats holding up the emergency funding for small business owners, their employees, American families, and industries directly impacted by the crisis, is the cold hard fact: Democrats hate hardworking, every day citizens

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
3.2.1  XXJefferson51  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.2    4 years ago

They want to tank the stock market and they know that stopping this bill will do that.  

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
3.2.2  pat wilson  replied to  XXJefferson51 @3.2.1    4 years ago

That happened a week and a half ago. 

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
4  1stwarrior    4 years ago

Pelosi is pushing, real hard, for "more" unemployment insurance.  Nancy - think for just a friggin' minute.  Ya know where unemployment insurance monies comes from?????  It's PAID by the employers as a payroll tax and is COLLECTED by the state and Feds.  The states and Feds don't fund the program - they just pay out of the funding collected.  You don't allow the businesses to continue working - ya ain't got no money going into unemployment insurance.  Hello.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2  Split Personality  replied to  1stwarrior @4    4 years ago
ARRA had three spending categories. It cut taxes by $288 billion. It spent $224 billion in  extended unemployment benefits , education, and health care. It  created jobs  by allocating $275 billion in federal contracts, grants, and loans.

Congress designed the Act to spend nearly $720 billion, or 91.5%, in its first three fiscal years. It allocated $185 billion in FY 2009, $399 billion in FY 2010, and $134 billion in FY 2011. 5

...

It also spent $28 billion on unemployment compensation and $13 billion on extra Social Security and veterans' checks.

Now we can debate the effects until the cows come home, but the previous Administration "injected" Federal monies into the unemployment network for 3 years.

That was missing in this rushed Bill that everyone had an hour to read before they voted on it.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.2.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Split Personality @4.2    4 years ago
Now we can debate the effects until the cows come home, but the previous Administration "injected" Federal monies into the unemployment network for 3 years.

What Obama did is fodder for another discussion. 


That was missing in this rushed Bill that everyone had an hour to read before they voted on it.

A yes vote last night would have required potentially 30 more hours of discussion, during which negotiations could have gone on as long as democrats would have liked. This was a power play designed to put the ball in Pelosi's court.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.2  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.2.1    4 years ago

Pelosi did not cause 5 Senators to be quarantined by the virus. 

The Bill was DOA without any bipartisan input.

That happens all the time.

Meanwhile, shouldn't we be debating eliminating cars and trucks?

37,000 Americans die in car crashes every year, almost 9,000 year to date.

But we shut the country down, cut the Fed rate and panic the stock market over a few hundred deaths.....

Chicken Little would be proud.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.2.3  Sparty On  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.2    4 years ago
Chicken Little would be proud.

Tell that to Italy right now .....

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.2.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.2    4 years ago
That happens all the time.

You mean every democrat voting in unison. Ya, all too often!


But we shut the country down, cut the Fed rate and panic the stock market over a few hundred deaths.....

Take that up with the media.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.5  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.2.4    4 years ago

How did the Republicans vote?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.2.6  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.5    4 years ago

Alphabetical by Senator Name 

Alexander (R-TN), Yea 
Baldwin (D-WI), Nay 
Barrasso (R-WY), Yea 
Bennet (D-CO), Nay 
Blackburn (R-TN), Yea 
Blumenthal (D-CT), Nay 
Blunt (R-MO), Yea 
Booker (D-NJ), Nay 
Boozman (R-AR), Yea 
Braun (R-IN), Yea 
Brown (D-OH), Nay 
Burr (R-NC), Yea 
Cantwell (D-WA), Nay 
Capito (R-WV), Yea 
Cardin (D-MD), Nay 
Carper (D-DE), Nay 
Casey (D-PA), Nay 
Cassidy (R-LA), Yea 
Collins (R-ME), Yea 
Coons (D-DE), Nay 
Cornyn (R-TX), Yea 
Cortez Masto (D-NV), Nay 
Cotton (R-AR), Yea 
Cramer (R-ND), Yea 
Crapo (R-ID), Yea 
Cruz (R-TX), Yea 
Daines (R-MT), Yea 
Duckworth (D-IL), Nay 
Durbin (D-IL), Nay 
Enzi (R-WY), Yea 
Ernst (R-IA), Yea 
Feinstein (D-CA), Nay 
Fischer (R-NE), Yea 
Gardner (R-CO), Not Voting 
Gillibrand (D-NY), Nay 
Graham (R-SC), Yea 
Grassley (R-IA), Yea 
Harris (D-CA), Nay 
Hassan (D-NH), Nay 
Hawley (R-MO), Yea 
Heinrich (D-NM), Nay 
Hirono (D-HI), Nay 
Hoeven (R-ND), Yea 
Hyde-Smith (R-MS), Yea 
Inhofe (R-OK), Yea 
Johnson (R-WI), Yea 
Jones (D-AL), Nay 
Kaine (D-VA), Nay 
Kennedy (R-LA), Yea 
King (I-ME), Nay 
Klobuchar (D-MN), Nay 
Lankford (R-OK), Yea 
Leahy (D-VT), Nay 
Lee (R-UT), Not Voting 
Loeffler (R-GA), Yea 
Manchin (D-WV), Nay 
Markey (D-MA), Nay 
McConnell (R-KY), Nay 
McSally (R-AZ), Yea 
Menendez (D-NJ), Nay 
Merkley (D-OR), Nay 
Moran (R-KS), Yea 
Murkowski (R-AK), Yea 
Murphy (D-CT), Nay 
Murray (D-WA), Nay 
Paul (R-KY), Not Voting 
Perdue (R-GA), Yea 
Peters (D-MI), Nay 
Portman (R-OH), Yea 
Reed (D-RI), Nay 
Risch (R-ID), Yea 
Roberts (R-KS), Yea 
Romney (R-UT), Not Voting 
Rosen (D-NV), Nay 
Rounds (R-SD), Yea 
Rubio (R-FL), Yea 
Sanders (I-VT), Not Voting 
Sasse (R-NE), Yea 
Schatz (D-HI), Nay 
Schumer (D-NY), Nay 
Scott (R-FL), Not Voting 
Scott (R-SC), Yea 
Shaheen (D-NH), Nay 
Shelby (R-AL), Yea 
Sinema (D-AZ), Nay 
Smith (D-MN), Nay 
Stabenow (D-MI), Nay 
Sullivan (R-AK), Yea 
Tester (D-MT), Nay 
Thune (R-SD), Yea 
Tillis (R-NC), Yea 
Toomey (R-PA), Yea 
Udall (D-NM), Nay 
Van Hollen (D-MD), Nay 
Warner (D-VA), Nay 
Warren (D-MA), Nay 
Whitehouse (D-RI), Nay 
Wicker (R-MS), Yea 
Wyden (D-OR), Nay 
Young (R-IN), Yea 




Your point?
 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.7  Split Personality  replied to  Sparty On @4.2.3    4 years ago

We do not live in Italy, do we?

What happened with Ebola?  We kept all but one Liberian death off shore in West Africa where 11,000 have died. Did we shut down the country because one green card died and 3 nurses got sick?

Even though 12,000 Americans died from "swine" flue in 2009, that was half the rate of the lowest "normal"

rate of 25,000 and well short of the high of 60,000 and the country just rolled along without any panic over health issues.  Within 6 months there was  a vaccine.  There was a second wave which was handled between better treatment and the vaccine.

Around the world, swine flu killed between 150,00 to 600,000 people.

We "won the war".

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
4.2.8  1stwarrior  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.2    4 years ago

Rand Paul is the "only" senator who has tested positive.  The other 4 are representatives.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.9  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.2.6    4 years ago

That both parties did it.

But you knew that...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.2.10  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.9    4 years ago

Democrats voted as a solid voting block.

BTW you will notice that the Senate leader changed his vote to a "nay" - that was a procedural matter so that he could bring up the vote again (within about 1 hour)

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.11  Split Personality  replied to  1stwarrior @4.2.8    4 years ago

There are 4 Senators that are self quarantined, including Romney, Gardner, Scott and Lee.

You can refer to Vic's helpful list at 4.2.6

Not sure why Sander's didn't vote...

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.12  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.2.10    4 years ago
that was a procedural matter so that he could bring up the vote again (within about 1 hour)

yep, political games.....

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
4.2.13  1stwarrior  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.11    4 years ago

Self-quarantining is not testing positive.  It purely meant that they came is contact with someone who "may" have had the virus.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.2.14  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.12    4 years ago

Only one side is playing - the pandering power seeking scum!

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.15  Split Personality  replied to  1stwarrior @4.2.13    4 years ago

Come on 1st. Semantics?  Really?

They self quarantined because of the virus. Romney & Lee are Rand Paul's buddies and have every reason to be worried and self quarantine.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
4.2.16  1stwarrior  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.15    4 years ago

Amazing how much semantics means so much, eh?  People can absolutely interpret words differently and draw different meanings from them as is done quite frequently - kinda like a double entendre.

So yes, they SELF quarantined but they were not quarantined for having the virus as you stated  "Pelosi did not cause 5 Senators to be quarantined by the virus." .

Big difference.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.17  Split Personality  replied to  1stwarrior @4.2.16    4 years ago

Self quarantining isn't because they are afraid of the virus? 

It isn't because they know that they came in contact with Rand Paul and others?

Really 1st?

jrSmiley_99_smiley_image.jpg

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.18  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.2.14    4 years ago

Careful there Vic, people may think you are being biased, lol.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.2.19  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.18    4 years ago

Well, you see, I don't go around telling people i'm an independent and wind up coming down on the side of the radical left every time. I'm straightforward on my beliefs.

 
 
 
Transyferous Rex
Freshman Quiet
4.2.20  Transyferous Rex  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.2    4 years ago

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
4.2.21  1stwarrior  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.17    4 years ago

Keep playing with the words and they might actually suit what you want them to say.  As of now, they don't.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.22  Split Personality  replied to  1stwarrior @4.2.21    4 years ago

A the statement was about Pelosi.

B I didn't say they had the virus.

C ...

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.23  Split Personality  replied to  Transyferous Rex @4.2.20    4 years ago

2 days ago?

Might as well been 2 months ago.

On the other hand, many in Congress have been through this before. 

Maybe the new people should listen?

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.24  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.2.19    4 years ago
I'm straightforward on my beliefs.

On that we can agree, lol.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.2.25  Sparty On  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.7    4 years ago
We do not live in Italy, do we?

Didn't say we did but it clearly applies to the chicken little scenario you laid on this.   At some point you are going to have to make up your mind.    Has the Fed reacted too much or too little.   Too fast or too slow?   Based on your comment here i suspect you feel it is too much, too fast.   Is that correct?

What happened with Ebola?  We kept all but one Liberian death off shore in West Africa where 11,000 have died. Did we shut down the country because one green card died and 3 nurses got sick?

You are trying to compare the Ebola outbreak to COVID-19?   Ridiculous.  

First of all Ebola is no where near as contagious and this latest virus

Second Ebola was much more contained, affecting less than a dozen countries as opposed to this one which is truly world wide.

Lastly Ebola more or less contains itself compared to COVID-19 in that when people catch it they were quickly and generally too sick to be walking around spreading it to the rest of the population.

Trying to compare the two pretty much ends at the fact that they are both viruses.

Even though 12,000 Americans died from "swine" flue in 2009, that was half the rate of the lowest "normal"

And how many of those could have been avoided had more proactive measures been taken?   How many "dead" is acceptable to you?   15,000?   50,000? Half a million?

We "won the war".

I for one am scared to death for my elderly parents and in laws because of people walking around with that kind of attitude towards COVID-19.   The thought that some dumb-ass, narcissistic kid who felt it was okay to frolic around at spring break while this was going on, could spread it to one of them makes my blood boil.

A more selfish, self centered, graceless act i can't think of right now.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.2.26  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.24    4 years ago

Lol, just as with your undeniable biases!

 
 
 
Transyferous Rex
Freshman Quiet
4.2.27  Transyferous Rex  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.23    4 years ago

Split, 2, 1, 10, the amount of days ago doesn't negate the fact that, whenever it was, Schumer relayed the sentiment that the communication and negotiations were going well, and that this was a bi-partisan effort, dispelling the notion that this was purely a Republican deal. 

Still, begs the question...why was this not originated in the House? I haven't read the "package", I've only seen reports. Dems claim it pays big business. Reps claim the Dems are trying piggyback non-pandemic related issues. The only thing I have seen that I believe is that the vote kills whatever it was, and now they start from scratch. Otherwise, it was a vote to move forward. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.28  Split Personality  replied to  Sparty On @4.2.25    4 years ago
Has the Fed reacted too much or too little.   Based on your comment here i suspect you feel it is too much.   Is that correct?

The fed bowed to WH pressure ( IMHO ) and cut the rate a second time on a Sunday which was followed by the market dropping Monday morning.

The Fed is set up to be independent and ignore the WH.  That didn't happen.

And how many of those could have been avoided had more proactive measures been taken?

Did you miss the point that 2009 was one of the lowest rates of death due to the flu?  We cannot defeat a constantly mutating virus ( yet ).

Everyone older than either of us is at risk. They always have been and always will be.

The CDC reports flu deaths for this (undefined ) flu season at 23,000 already but also describes that as "moderate".

How does 23,000 American deaths not create panic, but less than 500 American deaths knocks the US and world economy on it's ass?

Over reaction is the only explanation.

Everyone will get this eventually. Hopefully they can come up with a vaccine in 6 months like they did for HN1.  Baylor claimed that they already had a vaccine for the previous version of coronavirus in a refrigerator after funding ran out a couple of years ago, so that should be good building blocks towards a new vaccine, but not guaranteed.

 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.2.29  Sparty On  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.28    4 years ago

Selective responding ..... classic ...... although i didn't really expect any different in this case as i'm not crazy.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.30  Split Personality  replied to  Sparty On @4.2.29    4 years ago
i didn't really expect any different in this case as i'm not crazy.

Nice.

Apparently my comment was too big and was cut off.

I won't bore you with the rest of it.

Rest assured, my Mom has at least a 90 day supply of TP, TV dinners and Cutty.

She'll be fine as I hope yours will also be if they are careful.

Yes, I have always found kids who could afford to go to spring breaks in FL and beyond to be thoughtless

regardless of the threat of this virus.

Later...

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.2.31  Sparty On  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.30    4 years ago
Rest assured, my Mom has at least a 90 day supply of TP, TV dinners and Cutty.

Be thankful you have that ability.  

Both my parents require assisted living.   One for reasons of dementia the other for mobility problems.   We've been cut off from seeing them both going on three weeks.   The facilities involved were thankfully proactive in limiting exposure.   For which we are very thankful but it only takes one dumbass working there and if the virus takes hold, it will be like a bomb went off.   Saying that its disconcerting doesn't do the level of concern any justice.   It full on sucks

So yeah, the reaction sucks as well.    No doubt it does but i'd rather have my parents and inlaws here for a while longer than have a nice 401k portfolio.

No debate about that at all for me.

Stay safe and healthy ....

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
4.2.32  Snuffy  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.30    4 years ago
Rest assured, my Mom has at least a 90 day supply of TP, TV dinners and Cutty.

hmmm,  are you in charge of keeping your mother supplied?  if yes I may be tempted to turn you in for elder abuse.

The TP supply is good.  TV dinners?  Well they have gotten better but nutrition nutrition nutrition...

But Cutty?   come on man, spring for some good scotch.  That stuff is just cheap paint cleaner...   hehe

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.33  Split Personality  replied to  Snuffy @4.2.32    4 years ago

jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif

Almost 90 and no taste, lol.  Very independent as is her older sister.

She prefers Coors light too.  jrSmiley_19_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
4.2.34  Jasper2529  replied to  Sparty On @4.2.25    4 years ago
A more selfish, self centered, graceless act i can't think of right now.

Here's one, and it's a damn good example of why Trump was correct to add the UK to the European ban -

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
4.2.35  pat wilson  replied to  Sparty On @4.2.31    4 years ago

My 98 year old mom is in assisted living. She wanted to bring magazines to a friend in a condo on the property. She took the elevator down to the lobby, went out the door and was about to get into her golf cart when staff ran out and brought her back in.

At least they delivered the magazines for her. smile

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
4.2.36  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.2.1    4 years ago
What Obama did is fodder for another discussion. 

Why wait? Trump blames Obama for everything. 

A yes vote last night would have required potentially 30 more hours of discussion, during which negotiations could have gone on as long as democrats would have liked.

That 30 hours would run as long as the Senate was in session, so for as little as 2 days. McConnell COULD have included Democrats in the initial deliberations, he chose to keep it a purely GOP vehicle which doesn't address the most pressing issues on the table. NOW he's trying to pretend that the Democrats are being partisan. What he means is that Democrats are not the lap dogs he wants them to be. 

This was a power play designed to put the ball in Pelosi's court.

How can it be a power play when the House gets all the authority it needs to write it's own bill from the Constitution? 

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
4.2.37  evilone  replied to  Transyferous Rex @4.2.27    4 years ago
Still, begs the question...why was this not originated in the House?

Because Moscow Mitch wanted to look like a hero and pass a Republican bill. Instead of having a meeting of the 4 majority and minority leaders McConnell did it with a group of his senior Republican Senate buddies. He knew the Dems would say no and tried to paint them as non-cooperative. That ain't gonna work outside Trumpland.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
4.2.38  XXJefferson51  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.5    4 years ago

It’s time to question the patriotism of senate and house democrats holding we the people hostage over their pie in the sky ambitions. 

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
4.2.39  evilone  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.28    4 years ago
How does 23,000 American deaths not create panic, but less than 500 American deaths knocks the US and world economy on it's ass?

You're assuming less than 500 American deaths will be the whole of it. There is no natural immunity to this virus and no vaccine as there is with Influenza. We don't even yet know if recovering from COVID-19 builds any antibodies or if so for how long. Reinfection could be another big problem.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
4.2.40  XXJefferson51  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.2.14    4 years ago

McConnell should bring it up for a vote several times daily and put the democrat party members in the position of publicly voting against aid to the people repeatedly during this crisis until they are guilt shamed into voting for a clean bill.  

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.41  Split Personality  replied to  Jasper2529 @4.2.34    4 years ago

The point was not that Mr. Trump added the UK to the list for whatever reason,

the point is and was that he should not have given the UK any kind of waiver or special treatment to begin

with. They should have been travel banned with the EU.

The UK exclusion defied common sense and scientific logic.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.42  Split Personality  replied to  XXJefferson51 @4.2.40    4 years ago

McConnell should follow standard operating procedures and take the bipartisan House Bill and build on it or make amendments and go back to Pelosi, Mnuchin and the rest of the Administration to make compromise rather than jam an unread bill through the Senate.

 
 
 
KDMichigan
Junior Participates
4.2.43  KDMichigan  replied to  Dulay @4.2.36    4 years ago
How can it be a power play when the House gets all the authority it needs to write it's own bill from the Constitution? 

Well golly gee Dulay where does the Bill go after that ? 

I don't see the Democrats complaining that republicans filled the bill with pork. 

Maybe you can spin for us on how lowering taxes on windfarms addresses the COVID=19 epidemic?

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.44  Split Personality  replied to  evilone @4.2.39    4 years ago
You're assuming less than 500 American deaths will be the whole of it

No, I'm not, but one can look at the swine flu numbers and see how much better the US fared than any other country. The same will happen here. In a couple of months certain Administration officials will be saying that the media created a hoax that collapsed the world economy. 

Our ratios will be lower than any other major industrialized country.

Our mortality rate for the normal flu is 0.10%.

So far, with the exception of Wuhan Province (14%) the rest of China is only .09%.

So far, the US is at 0.012% which is remarkable considering the experiences of Italy and Iran.

Reinfection could be another big problem.

Unlikely for a virus but everything is possible.

 
 
 
Transyferous Rex
Freshman Quiet
4.2.45  Transyferous Rex  replied to  evilone @4.2.37    4 years ago

No, because the house dems, as well as the senate dems, want to fatten the deal up with their pet projects. Then, when it does pass, they want to point at the republican majority in the senate. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
4.2.46  Dulay  replied to  KDMichigan @4.2.43    4 years ago
Well golly gee Dulay where does the Bill go after that ? 

WTF is your point? 

I don't see the Democrats complaining that republicans filled the bill with pork. 

You inability to see is on you. 

Maybe you can spin for us on how lowering taxes on windfarms addresses the COVID=19 epidemic?

Maybe you can post the content of the Amendment to the bill that would do that but I doubt it. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5  author  Vic Eldred    4 years ago

 Immediate relief to businesses - Cancelled! 

Needed cash in the hands of Americans - Cancelled! 

Bolstering unemployment benefits for people out of work - Cancelled!

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
5.1  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @5    4 years ago

[Removed]

 
 
 
lady in black
Professor Quiet
6  lady in black    4 years ago

Good for her.  The senate is ONLY looking out for the corporations, you know those who got the tax break and used it for stock buy backs and bonuses and didn't give anything to their workers.  

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
6.1  1stwarrior  replied to  lady in black @6    4 years ago

Lady - read # 4.0.  That's one of the reasons for looking out for "corporations".  You don't make the money, you don't pay unemployment.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
10  Nerm_L    4 years ago

Gee, that's swell.  What are we supposed to do?  Tape money over our noses to filter out the virus?

Overnight the United States became dependent upon manufacturing.  We suddenly need all those jobs that are never coming back.  Why isn't the stock market manufacturing respirators, goggles, gloves, protective gear, ventilators, hospital beds, vaccines, and medications?  The investment banks, hedge funds, and 401k managers aren't doing jack shit.

Democrats have sold their souls to the gods of greed.  There isn't any way to save the financial sector right now.  Finance is on a hind teat.

What we are experiencing started less than three months ago.  And, according to the medical experts, we have four or five months to go.  This is the SARS pandemic that the World Health Organization and international medical community has been warning about over the last fifteen years.  Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi have been in Congress longer than 15 years; why didn't they do their jobs?  Why didn't the other 'die in their chairs' politicians do their jobs?

The only thing this political blame-gaming proves is that the United States cannot rely upon the Federal government.  We are wasting our time, money, effort, and attention on incompetent shirkers who covet a cushy government paycheck.

If Congress can't lead, then dammit, get out of the way.  The country has work to do.

 
 
 
user image
Freshman Silent
12      4 years ago

What the Democrats are doing now is using this crisis to advance their ideological and political agenda. This is not a time for that.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
13  Sean Treacy    4 years ago

Schumer refusing to allow Senator Collins to speak. 

Just despicable behavior by the Democrats today, trying is their wont, to take advantage of another crisis for their partisan agenda. 

I've never been more disappointed in this country. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
13.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @13    4 years ago

Trump has lied to the American people, as president, thousands of times. What does it mean that such behavior does not "disappoint" you? 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
13.1.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @13.1    4 years ago

The Democrats just negotiated a bipartisan bill and backed out because the whack jobs on  twitter who run their party got mad at them during the worst economic crises of our lifetimes.  

Rather than ensuring people eat and jobs exist when this is over, they torpedoed a trillion dollar relief act over wind energy. Imagine Democrats claiming to care about working Americans. What a joke. 

John you always rationalize and defend  lies by democrats because Trump "lies more."   Nothing in our collective life times  is as important as avoiding another depression right now. And Democrats want to play politics with that.  This is beyond reckless. I can't believe Democrats would stoop to filibustering hospital aid in an once in a century epidemic over the carbon footprint of airlines.  How deprived morally does one have to be to subscribe to the philosophy of never letting a crises go to waste? 

Nothing Trump has done comes close to being as shameful and despicable as the stunt  the Democrats did today.  Give me a serial bragger over a liar taking food out of people's mouths and intentionally destroying businesses  any day.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
13.1.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @13.1.1    4 years ago
Nothing Trump has done comes close to being as shameful and despicable as the stunt  the Democrats did today.  Give me a serial bragger over a liar taking food out of people's mouths and intentionally destroying businesses  any day.

spare me your ridiculous right wing propaganda

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
14  Perrie Halpern R.A.    4 years ago

Come on everyone, let's put the truth on the table. 

The Dems want their pork and the Repub have not put in anything about corporation buybacks, which they were supposed to do. So frankly, any version of the bill at this point sucks. 

If they all really cared about the American public, they would do their job and get the money out and knock it off with this garbage. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
14.1  Sparty On  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @14    4 years ago
The Dems want their pork and the Repub have not put in anything about corporation buybacks

Last version i saw required 100% payback with interest but who knows i guess.   Nothing would surprise me from either side.

There is a reason congress's approval rating is approaching single digits and they don't seem to care.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
14.1.2  Sparty On  replied to  Release The Kraken @14.1.1    4 years ago

Man, its worse than i thought ...... we are screwed up here in the northern latitudes.

No grass yet .....

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
14.1.3  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Sparty On @14.1    4 years ago
There is a reason congress's approval rating is approaching single digits and they don't seem to care.

Gotta agree with you there. That is why I have such a hard time getting caught up in this partisan BS.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
14.1.4  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Release The Kraken @14.1.1    4 years ago

BF, you have to stop hitting the bottle so early in the day. LOL!

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
14.1.6  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Release The Kraken @14.1.5    4 years ago

Come on... Don't blame the Dems. You know that love Fefe under glass. 

 
 
 
user image
Freshman Silent
14.1.7    replied to  Sparty On @14.1    4 years ago
There is a reason congress's approval rating is approaching single digits and they don't seem to care.

Why should they, they know the majority of people that send them to congress the first time are stupid enough to vote for them every time they come up for reelection no matter how bad they are.

It's always my representatives in congress are great, the ones from your states suck unless the represent the party I favor.

 
 
 
squiggy
Junior Silent
14.1.8  squiggy  replied to  Release The Kraken @14.1.5    4 years ago

That's the origin of covfefe - just a man so far out front.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
14.1.9  XXJefferson51  replied to  @14.1.7    4 years ago

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
14.1.10  Dulay  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @14.1.4    4 years ago
BF, you have to stop hitting the bottle so early in the day. LOL!

Oh so that was meant to be humorous. 

I don't see it as such. 

But it is encouraging to see that over imbibing is an excuse for comments that have no value.  It isn't encouraging to see that it encourages more of the same. 

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
15  Jasper2529    4 years ago
Today during a speech on the Senate Floor Senator Thune slammed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi for wrecking what had been bi-partisan agreement on relief for the American people because of the coronavirus crisis.

Thune started off by saying “Mr. President, I think we all know what’s happening here. As the Leader pointed out in his opening remarks, everything was going really quite well.”

“There were a lot of working groups that were meeting. There was great bipartisan cooperation,” he added. “Both sides were getting ideas included in a plan. And then yesterday, the Speaker of the House showed up with an agenda, and all of a sudden it got taken over at the leadership level.”

“So now, instead of talking about helping workers, we’re talking about the Green New Deal and all kinds of other things, demands that the unions and other special interest groups want to see in this deal.”

Watch the whole thing:

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
15.1  1stwarrior  replied to  Jasper2529 @15    4 years ago

512

 
 
 
user image
Freshman Silent
16      4 years ago

While millions of Americans are out of work the "compassionate" Democrats are more interested in advancing their ideological and political agenda than getting help to parents unable to feed their families.

 
 

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