The Threat from China
The world is in the midst of one of the greatest pandemics in human history. In the US as of today, May 15th there are 1,412,121 people infected with 85,990 "attributed" deaths.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html
The virus originated in Wuhan China, the specific source has yet to be determined. The government of China lied about it, quarantined most of their own country while allowing thousands to fly out of Wuhan to other parts of the world. Then China, in an act of supreme treachery, quietly cornered the market on medical supplies. As the world struggles in battling the deadly virus and faces the prospect of economic destruction, it may be time to think about what we all need to do to protect ourselves from what is arguably our greatest enemy.
On January 15th the US and China signed onto phase 1 of a trade deal. Although the President is angry about China's handling of the virus, it is apparent that he desperately wants Chinese compliance on the deal. Like Obama, before him, the President seems to be subjugating all else to the "deal" including a proper response to the crime against humanity committed by China.
IMHO Here is what needs to be done:
1) Protecting American intellectual properties. Chinese companies engaging in this kind of theft must be banned. Huawei is the prime example. It is nothing more than an arm of the Chinese military, specializing in infecting computer systems.The practice of allowing students coming from China to attend American universities must be ended. As a matter of fact, the liberal universities which are now closed should be kept closed. (we can live without another generation of indoctrinated progressives)
2) Protecting the American supply chain. Vital medicines, medical equipment, and strategic technologies & industries must be manufactured here in the US. Companies that produce such necessities must be granted special status with prohibitions on producing products outside of the US. A Corporate tax cut of 50% should be granted to all companies that come back to the US. The emergency stockpile must be built up and maintained.
3) A total and complete travel ban between the US and China for as long as Xi Jinping is the president of the People's Republic of China
4) Reparations for the cost of the pandemic to be deducted from what the US owes China.
5) The installation of nuclear missiles in Japan, Guam and the northern Mariana Islands.
To be filed under "If I ruled the country!"
It's amazing that after all the Chinese Communist government has done over the decades, and then topping it off with this current treachery and deceit, that some of our apologists friends hereabouts somehow still believe that this evil government is our ally and friend. I don't include the Chinese people in this condemnation, except those who are spies posing as students and scientists.
What's going with China is not just another conspiracy theory, but what is actually happening in real time...and what's been going on for too long. The kind of thinking exhibited by those who defend regimes like this duplicates what was going on in Europe while Germany was actively arming and taking territory..."peace in our time" was the prime directive until it was too late. Churchill and a few others could clearly see the gathering storm, but the majority of the people and their leaders chose to look the wrong way.
Thankfully, we have a president who is willing to stand up to them and say that enough is enough. The American people should be very afraid if Biden is elected.
.
Yes Greg, you've got it.
From the article.
Greg is right. Trump got the trade issue corrected. Now tell us all where we would be with Biden?
Oh that's right Biden said “Come on, man,” “I mean, you know, they’re not bad folks, folks. But guess what, they’re not competition for us.”
"In 2013, then-Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden flew aboard Air Force Two to China. Less than two weeks later, Hunter Biden’s firm inked a $1 billion private equity deal with a subsidiary of the Chinese government’s Bank of China. The deal was later expanded to $1.5 billion. In short, the Chinese government funded a business that it co-owned along with the son of a sitting vice president.
In 2000, Biden voted to approve Permanent Normal Trade Relations with China. In a presidential debate in 2007, when asked, “Would you call for tariffs to protect American consumers from unsafe products from China? Are you willing to go there?” Biden answered, “I’m not. No, I’m not willing to go there. You don’t need to start a tariff war. All you have to do is enforce the law. Enforce the law.”
http s://www.nationalreview.com/corner/joe-biden-is-convinced-a-pro-china-trade-stance-is-a-winner/
So I guess Biden already told us where he stands.
And now the ministry of propaganda of the Chinese communist party is threatening lawmakers with all sorts of repercussions for standing up to the evil empire. It’s clear that more needs to be done to confront them but we still need to try to trade with them to some extent.
Is that how you see our form of government?
Are we "ruled"?
Really Vic?
smh
Oh that's funny.
Balderdash! Anyone with a computer can find the truth in a few minutes. This pandemic isn't even on recorded histories radar yet.
The Black Plague, Smallpox, The Spanish flu, The Plague of Justinian, the 3rd Bubonic Plague.Several waves of Cholera,
that pesky 1968 Hong Kong flu ant Plague of Milan, another attack of the bubonic plague.
This pandemic isn't even the Junior Varsity yet.
Here's a good article from a 'trusted' conservative source.
True, but yesterday's news. It's over 89,000 as of noon today.
You seem to want it both ways!
How so?
That is the reason his moniker is Split Personality.
You tell us the Coronavirus is no big deal on the one hand, yet you go to great pains to inform us that the death count has increased by over 3,000 in a matter of hours.
comprehension issues ?
LITTLE Sensitive there Vic ?
i asked a simple question. Nothing rude or derogatory. I read SP's comments and didnt see any paradoxical confusion. I took his point to be, to date, there are almost a dozen examples of pandemic like exposure in the worlds history, that SO FAR, could/would have been counted as worse . Pay attention to his links title.
And for Sassparrillas sake, don't flag every one of my posts, as you feel you have to.
i've NEVER flagged a comment, and never will, cause i'm a Dick that way, and a thousand other ways, but WHO's counting,
The World Heath Organization...?
i'll disorganize their organization.
I think you are. After all the rules are all tilted your way - yet you still seek to insult those you can't convince via a rational argument.
great pains?
LMAO !
[Deleted]
celebrating then?
No are you?
Never! I leave that to those in America who blame Trump for the virus and hope to use it as a tool to beat him with in the election.
The President is no more responsible for the virus than he is for the mutations of the common fruit fly.
He is however responsible for every thing that happens on his watch, such as his words and actions regarding the US response to the pandemic.
And none of which is on topic. The topic is still what to do about China.
International isolation of China would be a excellent idea! Let the entire world come together on this one!
That all goes back to how we got into this position. I do believe that the CPC is as sober about military confrontation as we are. I have noted that the Chinese navy avoids the US Navy whenever paths might cross.
The words of congress woman Lynn Cheney: “There is a preponderance of opinion that this pandemic — this virus — originated from Wuhan,” said Cheney. “It’s also without question — it cannot be challenged — that the government of China shut down travel from Wuhan into the rest of their country while they allowed travel from Wuhan into the rest of the world. That is without question, and that alone tells you [the Chinese government] knew that they had human-to-human transmission.” Cheney continued, “They knew it was so dangerous that they didn’t want it in the rest of their country, but yet they caused it to be exported to the rest of the world, and I think that they pretty clearly did that. I’m sure they understood the economic devastation this virus was going to cause, and I think they made a very clear, calculated decision that they didn’t want to be the only country having to face that devastation.”
Cheney went on, “There’s no question that they exported this virus. There’s also no question that they continue to hide the truth about it. They continue to refuse to allow the kind of investigation that we need to help speed up the development of a vaccine and other things.”
Democrats dismissing political focus on China’s role in the coronavirus outbreak are negligent, assessed Cheney, highlighting Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi’s (D-CA) dismissal of President Donald Trump’s attention to China as a “distraction.”
Cheney said, “The notion that somehow we should not hold China accountable is just complete malpractice from anybody who wants to be in a position of leadership in this country.”
Cheney concluded, “The issue of China is going to be the most challenging, most difficult, [and] most threatening issue of our time.” https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/05/15/rep-liz-cheney-china-deliberately-exported-global-economic-devastation-via-coronavirus/
Thank you for responding to my comment
with an irrelevant cut and paste from Breitbart,
one of the poster children for unreliable partisan fake news.
Cheers
she either said it in an interview or she didn’t. So it matters not who reported her saying it since we know she did say it.
Who effing cares?
Her opinion is worth no more or less than Pelosi's or Newt Gingrich's.
What happened to the threats from China, Cuba, NK?
When is that sky going to fall?
Eighty-nine thousand dead and twenty million unemployed isn't enough?
It has happened time and time again.
History is your friend...those who ignore it are doomed to repeat it.
Well said.
If that's your philosophy, it's mine as well.
Thanks for stopping by.
Well, that appeasement shit seldom works out, eh?
"I believe it is peace in our time"...."Peace with honor" .....Neville Chamberlain
He had it written on a piece of paper, too!
So Nazis are on topic too?
easier to argue about the source rather than take on the article or what specifically was said.
The context was appeasement. There has been plenty of conversation above about coexisting with China, because they have the bomb. I'm sure you read it.
Evidently you don't want to discuss China. You prefer to what? Why all the irrelevant questions?
Well I think your musings of being an all powerful ruler are amusing.
The thought of appeasement never occurred to me
but let Godwins's rule be proven correct once again...
Well, I must apologize again, I thought this was a discussion site.
What is it the left are so fond of saying when it comes defending Bill Clinton's sexual assaults on women while bashing Trump? "Different times, different times". Not one of the pandemics listed has occurred in modern times outside of Aids- and by the articles' own admission.
So it can be avoided if you aren't a complete moron and have unprotected sex, or share needles. Yes, you can catch it from blood transfusions; but that is far less likely.
So what has changed? The medical community is far more advanced. The media is far more rampant. Good luck with getting away with a true pandemic now. Look at the way Trump is being roasted for what you are dismissing. Of course a lot of that has to do with rampant media and leftist TDS. They are bashing him for Covid-19 and the economy at the same time.
There is the Split I have come to expect. Dismiss Covid-19 as a "Junior Varsity" Pandemic and then make sure to post the current number spike in deaths. By the way- the numbers in the article you posted are world wide deaths from previous pandemics; but the number you corrected was only the US deaths.
The current number 313,636 deaths. Of course that number is actually much higher when you factor in countries that have grossly under-reported actual deaths. Like China, North Korea, Vietnam, and Russia. (Plug in your favorite dictatorship, they are all lying. No, the US doesn't count- for those with TDS that feel the need to respond.)
How in the world is the left or Bill Clinton on topic or germane to the conversation ?
Ronin, please...
Hong Kong flu in 1968 - 1970 wasn't "modern"? (100,000 Americans, 1 - 4 million worldwide?)
The Spanish Flu of 1918 that killed 675,000 Americans wasn't "modern"?
The same strain came back in 2009 but we in the USA kicked it's ass. (modern, but not in the Federalists top ten )
8. Cholera: India/Indonesia (1817-Present)
How can "Present" not be interpreted as "modern"?
6. Third Plague: China (1885 – 1950s)
Death Toll: 12 million
How can the 1950's not be modern? I was alive then and now and I consider myself "modern", do you?
And last but not least "New World Smallpox" the destroyer of the native peoples of two continents, at least 56 million, maybe more, since no one can agree how many Native North Americans died, last American out break in 1948, last international event in 1980.
I agree.
Define rampant. Might as well throw in the internet too.
Like China? i am not sure where you re going.
Is he not the duly elected President? Other presidents accepted the responsibility of the office, not denied it.
Is he not the duly elected President? Other presidents accepted the responsibility of the office, not denied it.
Did he not promise/predict things about the virus that were wrong?
Did he not shut down an economy on fire?
Apparently he didn't have an exit strategy, ( Boy does that sound all too familiar )
Have a burr in that saddle?
Just keeping the current total accurate for a friend and fellow seeder. While he and I don't agree on much I have to respect his efforts to seed and follow a lot of rules. He also does an excellent job writing original material.
Copyrighted information.
Already answered.
Back to the definition of modern again? Amazing that "modern" history only recognizes the pandemics that affected mostly white people in the last 2,000 years isn't it.
Do you honestly think that there aren't thousands of pandemics that have ravaged the world throughout history but aren't itemized quite so clearly by "modern" people?
Do Christians and Jews not believe the Old testament and the plagues of Egypt?
OK, gardening calls.
Later.
It would be no more or less on topic or germane than you and others bringing the President into the conversation.
The topic is China.
Then flag XX, Ronin and me for responding to Ronin.
easy peasy.
Why should I flag them? How many warnings have I given out about topic? Take a look at who has been ticketed before giving out your advice. (Keep in mind this is a group forum.)
I flagged several myself and I am assuming ( I know, I know ) a group Admin, waived them off.
Oh well.
There have been 3 tickets issued here. I issued one for an insult. An outside mod issued two - one to me and one to HA for "meta"
If you don't want to discuss the article, please go elsewhere.
I have been discussing some points.
Your wanna be list is insane, especially points 4 & 5.
My wanna be list in insane too.
It come's with the aging.
4. Reparations by deducting from what we owe China. If your talking about deducting it from the US Treasuries that China has, that, IMO, would be a disaster for the US. There is a reason that countries purchase our treasuries and a reaction as you suggest would destroy our standing or ability to sell to foreign countries. Currently, China and Japan both own over $1 trillion in treasury notes.
5. Installation of nuclear missiles in Japan, Guam, and the Northern Marianna Islands.
What in the world good would that do, other than to start another nuclear arms race. First, the US would have to get permission from Japan to install nuclear missiles in their country. If granted and placed in Japan it would rachet up tensions to the brink of war. Japan is very close to China, just across the sea of Japan and the East China Sea. Also caught in the crossfire would be South Korea and Taiwan. In fact, much of NE and SE Asia would be caught in the web.
Why don't we just bow from the ankles and surrender then?
You can do whatever you chose to do. I'm simply pointing out the pitfalls of your proposals.
We are not hamstrung because of Chinese investments, nor do we have anything to fear about putting in missiles where China definitely doesn't want them.
You see, China can't do much worse to us than they already have!
I see a need for SDI missiles in those places. I worry about our naval and air assets at Guam, Northern Australia, and Japan. They are the glue that holds containment together. A massive conventional short and medium range surprise missile attack could limit our ability to respond in that region. If China does transition into an outright Cold War enemy and I hope that doesn’t happen, we would need to ask Taiwan to be able to put ground and air forces and anti missile assets there.
Sure they can.
They can cut us off, bringing the remaining department stores to their knees and causing places like Lowes and Home Depot to close.
They can withhold rare earth minerals and the medical reagents we need fot this or future viruses.
Farmers will go back to plowing under the crops.
It's pretty evident what we can live without...
A sure-fire way to start a shooting war with China.
I'm quite sure that there are things that China could do to harm the US. Why would you want to push them to the brink of war or into a shooting war?
Even a limited war (like the Korean War) would cost the US trillions of dollars and tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of American lives.
That's just Trump speaking through Vic, Kavika. Blustering, hoping to impress the voters to vote for their big protector and benefactor, Donald Trump. You don't see MY knees shaking. So just as Clint Eastwood said the words, China can easily reply to all the bullshit in this seed and comments with "Go ahead. Make my day."
I'm waiting to see the result of the November vote to make up my mind as to the intelligence of the American public. For sure Trump has with his comments endangering Asian Americans said goodbye to the possible votes of about 6% of the American voters, if they ever had any intention of voting for him before.
No sir. China is 100% responsible for 2 ans a half months of death, destruction and fear worldwide. Something, you unsuccessfully tried to blame on the President.
Better to be red than dead, they used to say!
How many of them would be up there with killing a minimum of 89,000 Americans, destroying the US economy and scaring half the country?
Why would you want to push them to the brink of war or into a shooting war?
They need to pay for this.
Even a limited war (like the Korean War) would cost the US trillions of dollars and tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of American lives.
You mean like $6 Trillion dollars and let's say 89,000 American lives?
Nice to hear it Buzz. Stay safe!
??? That wasn't my comment, Vic. However, I'm fine here especially since things are back to normal where I am, and I hope you and yours stay safe as well.
Great saying and just that a saying.
So you want to start a shooting war with them. You gonna join up or your kids or grand kids? China is not Panama or Grenada. A shooting war with China would be of the scope of WWII if not worse because both sides have nukes.
A shooting war?
The best way to explain the missiles is this:
I once had a girlfriend text me a picture of her ass one morning. (She was getting ready for work) I asked her what the picture was for.
She said "That's to give you something to think about!"
China also has to think about that. Most of her neighbors are unarmed!
You are the only person I have no problem with regurgitating the PRC party line!
The best way to explain the missiles is this. They are a direct provocation to the Chinese and any one that is provoked will respond.
I disagree. I think it will anger the Chinese government, but provoke? NO!
For the longest time China has been threatening & intimidating every nation in that part of the world. It is time to draw the line here and now. Everything you were worried about has already happened. 89,000 dead, $6 Trillion wasted, the prosperous American economy destroyed - all at the hand of China. It's time to stand up to China. I believe they have just committed the infamous "crimes against humanity."
How about "rebalance to an Asia-Pacific strategy" Have you ever heard that one?
"It has been six years since the US put forward the “rebalance to Asia-Pacific” strategy, which is supported by four pillars. The first is to deploy 60% of its navy and air force to the Asia-Pacific region , a plan announced by a senior US official. This is reminiscent of the US, during the Cold War, deploying 60% of its navy and air force in the North Atlantic while keeping 20% for home territory and the remaining 20% for strategic mobility; the second is to create the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), a trade framework that excludes China; the third is the use of what Hillary Clinton calls “smart power” in diplomacy, which is actually to take advantage of China’s conflicts and disputes with its surrounding countries to drive wedges among them; the fourth pillar is to continue its contact with China."
I do not regurgitate the PRC party line, I simply voice my common sense. Just because I am critical of Trump does not mean I'm regurgitating the PRC party line - there are others on this site who are critical of Trump. I believe I'm the only person on this site who posts comments and articles who is living in China and seeing the situation here with my own eyes and capable of actually seeing the other side of the story as it exists today.
Of course, I've heard of it, Vic. Here is the problem with it in case you're not aware of it...Trump pulled out of the TPP which is leg two of the ''rebalance to an Asia-Pacific strategy''...Leg three is not working IMO, note the Chinese bases built on the shoals of the South China Sea and the fourth leg seems to be, with this administration, lacking.
China has expanded into the South Pacific, South America, Africa and the Indian subcontinent not using military force but using ''loan power''...
Not true.
....and the Belt and Road project into Europe and elsewhere.
Follow the China Silk Road....
Were you in favor of TPP?
note the Chinese bases built on the shoals of the South China Sea
I noted that 5 years ago.
China has expanded into the South Pacific, South America, Africa and the Indian subcontinent not using military force but using ''loan power''.. .
Ah yes, it seems like only yesterday:
"There is a lot of controversy in Congress about this vote, and I've heard all the arguments," Clinton told a crowd of 500 at the Tech Museum in San Jose on Monday morning. "But I think I have to tell you first of all, just on the trade terms, in the entire history of trade agreements I don't believe there has ever been one this weighted in our favor."
Yes, I was. I could see the advantages to the US from the beginning.
Yes, China is in the WTO that is old news Vic. We are talking about today.
The problems of today have a pedigree in the past and thinking that China would become like the civilized world once they were a part of the WTO was a fantasy!
So, Nixon opening up China was a fantasy as well. That would make the MFN status a fantasy as well.
That's right! Prior to that the US recognized the Republic of China as the one and only government of China. Mainland China was isolated.
If we could only go back to that day!
Or better still, if would could have aided Chiang Kai-sheck, during the Chinese war, the world would have been a much better place!
Living in the past isn't going to solve anything.
Chiang Kai Sheck even pissed off his own side when he was more interested in fighting the communists when the Japanese were slaughtering Chinese people in Manchuka. He was actually kidnapped by his own Generals and held hostage for a couple of weeks until he agreed to join the Mao and fight the Japanese.
The CPC was much more popular in China than the KMT because of all of Chaing screw-ups.
You really think that we didn't aid the KMT during their civil war??? WTH We had 50,000 troops in China training and equipping the KMT. In the first 2 years of the civil war the KMT received from the US $4.3 billion in aid, most of it military aid.
Read about Operation Beleaguar.
Irrelevant to my comment, possibly irrelevant to the whole thread and seed.
I don't see that on this thread or seed, but please be consistent on your criticisms of past and present Presidents.
The previous Administration inherited a crashing economy and within a few months another pandemic. It took months to stop the sliding record breaking jobless numbers and they owned it as conservatives here on NT reminded everyone, everyday for the past 11 years. They handled the pandemic pretty well by comparison to 2019-2020. Miraculous when compared to 1958 or 1968.
This Administration now owns the highest and lowest record unemployment numbers,
the highest and lowest record stock market numbers
And they sure look like they are trying to beat the Johnson and Eisenhower Administrations death by "pandemic" numbers.
Truman famously kept a paperweight on his desk that said "The Buck Stops Here"
Mr Trump has already disagreed with you. It's a shame ( and a measure ) that he now says he bears no responsibility.
You just disproved your first two statements.
I wonder how popular they were after Mao's "great leap forward" and the slaughter of 45 million in 4 years?
Read about Operation Beleaguar.
I'm afraid that wasn't nearly enough.
That is the basic idea. Global peace and cooperation with China in the lead dictating terms...
You mean they wouldn’t invade it without our presence but would if they were stronger because we were there?
Some still do and they aren’t talking in the context of American politics regarding that color.
Clarify your question.
No thanks!
Part of my extended family and their parents back in the day made that trip to Taiwan from China in 1949.
you said that if we placed ground and air assets in Taiwan it would start a shooting war. Well, China invading it would for certain do so if we honorably live up to our word as a country
It could start a shooting war. The US is practicing ''Strategic Ambiguity''...we are not legally committed to defending Taiwan if it is attacked by PRC according to the 1979 Taiwanese Relations Act.
There are many ways to attack Taiwan if China so desires. Take some of the outlying islands that Taiwan claims, start a cyberwar on them, blockades.
It would be a huge provocation to install missiles in Taiwan.
Do you think that the US would come to Taiwan's aid by sending troops, airpower, or sea power to defend Taiwan?
Nonsense. The current stalemate is the best the UN & the US can hope for.
We backed the losing side in a Chinese Civil War and cannot come to their aid in an all out conflict over this one outpost.
Two small islands controlled by Taiwan are only 6 miles from mainland China. Everyone on those islands will die in a matter of hours if there is an outbreak of hostilities.
The main Island of Taiwan is only 100 miles form most points along a 245 mile long line putting every inch of Taiwan under the offensive missile range of China.
A supply line by air or sea from the USA to Taiwan is over 7,500 miles long.
Planners assume Guam would be lost first and Hawaii would be too far to afford effective help.
The best Taiwan and China can hope for is a changing generational point of view that eventually returns Taiwan to the Chinese Government.
Wasn't it,
Better dead than red?
According to KT Mc Farland, that is exactly what Nancy Pelosi wants us to do;
Political commentator KT McFarland told Fox News' Steve Hilton on Sunday that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif. is "enslaving" the U.S. to China by advocating huge state bailouts to offset the crippling economic impact of the coronavirus pandemic.
The $3 trillion coronavirus bill passed in the House on Friday faces an uphill battle in the Senate, as Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., decried stipulations in the relief package, particularly aid to struggling states as well as other "wishlist" items such as “checks specifically for illegal immigrants,” that he called a "totally unserious effort," to pass new legislation in the midst of a crisis.
The hefty price tag that would add to the already bulging $3.7 trillion deficit in America due to the pandemic, would force the U.S. to borrow even more from China, McFarland said......https://www.foxnews.com/media/kt-mcfarland-says-pelosi-enslaving-us-to-china-with-state-bailouts
That never really was the choice, was it?
We were neither.
Japan holds nearly as much in US Treasury notes as China does. Both over $1 trillion. Numerous other countries hold US debt as well. With the current pandemic worldwide will these nations, including China, continue to purchase US debt at the rate that they had been buying it before the pandemic? Whether this bill passes or not it will be interesting to seem world wide reaction.
Without helping the states, IMO, you're going to see mass layoffs of state/county/city employees and tax revenues will have to be increased and that will mean increased property taxs, state income taxes etc etc.
Interesting world we live in right now.
The Federal Reserve is doing a pretty good job, don't you think?
There is nothing to be smug about. American's savings are being destroyed. I guess that's the difference between a 2 week shutdown and a 2 month shutdown.
Yes, they are but what does that have to do with my comment?
Who was being smug? Don't you think that I was adversely affected by this? I was pointing out facts and asking a question. Geez Vic.
I don't think you understood what I meant. You were citing how many foreign governments were buying US Treasuries. Here is what I was referring to:
"Global stocks fell on Monday despite the US Federal Reserve unleashing its full firepower to support the economy through the coronavirus outbreak when it pledged to buy government bonds in unlimited amounts. The new measures, which include a historic step to buy corporate debt, add monetary heft to the effort to save the US economy, which is expected to contract sharply in coming weeks."
And when I used the term "good job" I meant "good job" of flooding the market with new American money, which may be argued as substituting the frying pan for the fire!
I was pointing out facts and asking a question. Geez Vic.
I'm wondering what you are doing? Other than painting a picture of the dire straits we are in, do you have any thoughts on what should be done with China in the future?
Over 100 million people placed under lockdown in China after cluster of new coronavirus cases http:// hill.cm/05Lc2lE
I'm glad I'm not part of the China norm!
Vic, most of the time I agree with you; but some of your points- well they aren't going to work.
Ok, I am by no means pro Chinese government. But not all students coming to study within the US are Chinese spies. In fact many of them want nothing more to escape China and become productive members of US society. I also know some US citizens that have gone over to China to study and teach; they all state they gained far more from the experience than they gave.
As for shutting down liberal universities permanently. Well that would be the vast majority of them. Not legal in the slightest. It would be the same as a leftist calling for the shutdown of all religious universities, business colleges, or any other school that might have the slightest conservative bent.
I am sorry, WHAT!?! Forget the fact there are many Chinese Americans with relatives still in China. Forget that there is a ton of US corporations operating in China- even if the majority of them come back to the US eventually it will still mean face time in China to make the transition. Punishing the people of both the US and China is a non starter. Yes China's government benefits from US tourism; but so do the people at a local and national level. Same with Chinese tourists to the US. Cultural exchanges like tourism help both sides. Changes in the way the US and Chinese governments regard each other and interact will only happen if the citizens on both sides demand it.
Sorry, I thought we were trying to decrease military operating costs and our footprint in the world? Too risky by any measure. Not only would it directly provoke China; but the same thing can be accomplished at no cost by extending a nuclear umbrella over those countries. I am sure Japan is already under our nuclear umbrella, along with South Korea. Not so sure about Taiwan, and Guam- but it would far easier and cheaper. Also, if we gave those countries nuclear weapons- it would be under the same terms as those we gave our allies. While the weapons would be in their countries- the US would still control the activation and launch codes. Which means it would be up to the current president as to give them the codes or not.
This one was your best point; and would be the very best way at punishing China.
It will take time (years at least); but it needs to be done! Nothing will punish China more than the loss of manufacturing jobs for US corporations. Maybe the unrest caused by a dramatic permanent downward shift in their economy would cause the changes needed. There is only so much the Chinese government can lie. Massive unemployment, and the unrest it would cause, is not something they can afford.
You can count me among them as well.
Thank you for providing Vic with common sense responses to some of his outlandish concepts. However, what will it take, do you think, to get McDonald's, Burger King, KFC, Pizza Hut, Starbucks and Subway to close their hundreds of profitable restaurants in China? As for threatening China with planting nuclear missiles nearby, if that isn't "playing with matches" I don't know what is.
I didn't read #2 as pulling fast food chains out of China. It has more to do with essential manufactured goods- such as medical supplies, drugs, computer components, cell phones, etc. Even the US auto industries were at China's mercy when they decided to shut down their economy.
GM, Ford, and Chrysler were forced to switch suppliers and compete against each other for limited part manufacturing capabilities in Mexico and Canada. GM for sure had to shut down several plants ahead of the new model start up; and idle many others.
I am against any new country getting access to nuclear weapons. India and Pakistan make the world hold it's breath every time a new skirmish starts in Kashmir. Iran gaining nuclear weapons will start a new arms race in the Middle East; something no one wants to see, All it takes is one country that has nuclear weapons to believe they have nothing left to lose.
Ronin, I have to say well done. That is an excellent critique. It is well thought out and devoid of any ideological bias.
The points you raise involve fairness and not hurting ourselves to punish them. Let me respond to a few items. We are already at the point where major universities are teaching students who are at home. That may just become a cheaper way for students to get an education. They won't be getting the full college experience, but they also won't be saddled with all the student debt. Let's see what happens if liberal universities remain closed for a while.
Even a limited war (like the Korean War) would cost the US trillions of dollars and tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of American lives.
There are always those who suffer for the actions of an evil regime.
Sorry, I thought we were trying to decrease military operating costs and our footprint in the world?
This would be a realignment from the middle east to the Pacific.
While the weapons would be in their countries- the US would still control the activation and launch codes. Which means it would be up to the current president as to give them the codes or not.
I'm against that. We could never depend on an American president to really defend a country like Japan. Even during the days of the cold war, nations correctly questioned how far the US would go to defend another country in a nuclear crisis.
I hope the point we agree on (2) will be part of the immediate agenda for whoever is president.
Thank you for the clarification. Not sure online studies could replace physical lab work (Biology, Chemistry, Physics); or applied in class mechanical engineering (computers and robotics). Most people simply don't have access to the materials. But many things such as English, History, Mathematics, Social Sciences, etc could easily be taught online.
Still wouldn't diminish our military foot print.
I believe that is the system we have in place with any country that we have nukes in. I know for sure that is the restriction in Turkey. Unfortunately today's allies could be tomorrow's enemies, as history has proven time and again.
If it is Trump it will be for sure. Trump has proven that he will follow through on his promises- even if he has to drag Congress kicking and screaming along for the ride.
Biden on the other hand has given no indication that he will hold China accountable for anything. I expect him to gloss things over with China as quickly as possible in the name of getting the US economy in full recovery mode. Taking the necessary actions to bring manufacturing back to the US will not be on his list. Biden had better hope the next Pandemic is more than 5 to 9 years away if he is elected.
Guam is most certainly under our nuclear umbrella since they are us. They even have a non voting member of Congress.
The first four recommendations are plausible. And some will make things hard on the US at first. But this is an extreme that should not be considered even in jest. There are far more productive means to resolve this. The US military is already stretched very thin because we have been used as the global police for decades.
When it comes to being prepared, regardless of what is said, nobody is prepared. When looking at a strategic level or a civil level, there is no way to prepare for the repercussions.
While Japan is a reach for ground based missiles, there are already likely nuclear weapons with the ships based there and when ever strategic bombers are based there or on Guam. No short range ground missiles there though either. Where ever there is a US navy fleet, nuclear weapons are almost certainly present.
Trump and his family have financial ties to China, loans, trademarks, manufacturing, etc., it is easy to find articles about his and his family's ties to China. Trump may talk tough about China but he and his family are too indebted to China for him to look to damage China. With Trump it is all about his money, and he needs China.
So do Dianne Feinstein, Mike Bloomberg, the Clintons, and the Bidens.
Only Trump has power to put tariffs in place.
And he has...
Please don't change the goal posts. I directly replied to your comment 6 , which did not mention Trump's presidential authority and tariffs.
Which is the reason that Trump had the US in a trade war with China right? Because he was so concerned about his financial ties that he had increasing tariffs against China until they negotiated a new trade deal.
Actions speak louder than Democratic talking points.
Check out products Trump imposed tariffs on, none impact his family's products manufactured in China.
Can you point to any Trump Property contracts or Ivanka intellectual or commercial, design property contracts that have been canceled or shifted to other countries for production?
Jared Kushner and his family infamously pushed $500, 000 "investor visas" to wealthy Chinese in 2017 & 2018.
We agree again...
So you think the government controlled companies in China would do business with Trump while he was conducting a trade war with them?
TDS at it's finest.
Again, all you have to do is prove it. The Democrats should have no problem if Trump and family are being as blatant as you claim. They must be really incompetent morons not to have gotten Trump out of office.
And that's why the President tried to make trade with China fair?
How many are buying SP's argument?
And his lap dog McConnell's wife is Chinese, and I am sure that helps too.
Leave the wives out of it.
(For the record, the highly competent and articulate Elaine Chao was born in Taiwan to parents who had fled Mao's brutal regime.)
The virus originated in Wuhan Chin
They won't even admit that anymore. They lie, spread propaganda in Europe and America, obstruct any investigation into the virus, pressured the WHO to lie etc, but China is the real victim here.
They are. It was all a Trumps' conspiracy to hurt China
The information we have points to the virus originating in China, no doubt but trump and his administration focusing all their attention on that just looks like trump needing a distraction from his own feeble response to the pandemic. That's plain to see.
It appears that Trump is intending to step away from leading the Covid-19 in the next phase;
It will be fun to see how this all turns out. I guess he wants time to spend on his re-election campaigns and rallies. That is far more important than the pandemic and trying to save American lives.
Trump is intending to step away from leading
Lol, he's been doing that since 1/20/2017.
He should resume rallies STAT ! We're open now, right ? More rallies !!!!
Yeah....I had to laugh when I read that. That is pretty much what he's been doing all along. Then when he should step aside he jumps into the middle of it and skrews things up. What he wants to work on now that he has finally managed to get the country out of the lockdown is to start his rallies in the states he thinks he can win and get the Electoral College votes to elect him as it did last time. Even though he lost the overall votes, he was able to win by getting the Electoral votes first to get the win. The closer it gets to election day the more chances Biden may have to win over more voters in the states Trump needs.
Even though Trump has made an even bigger disaster of the Covid-19, he still can win some votes from those who don't care how many people may have died needlessly due to his mishandling of the whole thing. So getting back on the campaign trail is now much more important.
And without him involved in it hopefully save some lives. Depending on who he puts in charge of it. If it is one of his lap dogs instead of a qualified viral expert, we may not be that lucky.
We will see. Hopefully, the Creator will take mercy on us.
I believe you just confirmed what was pointed out in post 7.1
Really? It will be fun to see?
China is the topic
Don't count on it.
You are off topic - LAST WARNING
Pray tell what was pointed out ?
That some on the left (did I phrase that right?) are blaming the President for the death & destruction of the Coronavirus.
You didn't get any inkling of that from post 7.1?
2) Protecting the American supply chain. Vital medicines, medical equipment, and strategic technologies & industries must be manufactured here in the US. Companies that produce such necessities must be granted special status with prohibitions on producing products outside of the US. A Corporate tax cut of 50% should be granted to all companies that come back to the US. The emergency stockpile must be built up and maintained.
Just wondering if it is too late to get some of this shit back:
It is also true that on Feb. 7, 2020, while critics contended that the Trump administration was doing relatively little to prepare for the coming pandemic in the U.S., the State Department announced it had facilitated “the transportation of nearly 17.8 tons of donated medical supplies to the Chinese people, including masks, gowns, gauze, respirators, and other vital materials” in order to help “contain and combat the novel coronavirus”: Source
Secretary Pompeo tweeted this on February 4, 2020:
✔
@SecPompeo
Proud of our rapid facilitation of the delivery of donated life-saving personal protection equipment and medical and humanitarian relief supplies to the people affected by the #coronavirus in #China. Grateful to the generous U.S. organizations donating to the relief efforts.
5,580
2:15 PM - Feb 4, 2020
Twitter Ads info and privacy
Our friend and neighbor in North Richland Hills Iron Forge Road, prestige Ameritech also testified to Congress that the last 10 million N95 masks he made under a 2010 government contract were auctioned off by the Trump Administration to some one last year for pennies on the dollar, allowing an EBAY entrepreneur to make a small fortune on the internet.
He said he was not only competing against China and 3M, but his own product on Ebay.
I lived in N Richland Hills in 90/91...
I saw his testimony before congress and I loved it when he lit into the one congressman..Too funny.
Yup, 10 million masks that probably cost more to store than what they were worth for those ten years. He does realize that there is a pandemic going on? N95 masks are at a premium right now. If you are not a member of the government, hospital, or have connections to a major company like GM- then you are SOL. Which is the reason that hand made masks are so prevalent right now.
Trump has been President for the last 15 years? Who knew?
Sounds like a problem with his product; cost; and customers. In 2009 that would would it Obama's issue.
Welcome to the global economy. Sucks to have competition doesn't it?
Diversify, diversify, diversify. Or does he think the market is suddenly going to change to keep his company profitable once the Pandemic is gone? Maybe if he is lucky he can get a government contract then; but given how much money the government is spending now bet on 3M getting it if they decide to go American made.
Well good luck with trying to blame the President.
Not one word out of you about China.
Here's something a little more topic related for ya. It's a photo from inside Hong Kong's legislature. That ring of men is not a group of politicians. It is a group of thugs there to protect the Beijing backed coup now taking place!
The problem with the President's magnanimous gesture is that neither he nor many others knew that China was secretly cornering the world's supply of medical equipment back in February. and thus, the part of the article you missed:
"Then China, in an act of supreme treachery, quietly cornered the market on medical supplies. As the world struggles in battling the deadly virus and faces the prospect of economic destruction, it may be time to think about what we all need to do to protect ourselves from what is arguably our greatest enemy."
I don't recall you complaining when president Obama went all in to help West Africa:
"President Obama is expected to announce Tuesday that he's sending up to 3,000 military personnel to combat the Ebola virus in West Africa.
Obama will announce the stepped-up offensive against the outbreak, which has killed more than 2,200 people in five West African countries, in an appearance at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta.
Administration officials said that the U.S. would help to provide medical and logistical support to overwhelmed local health care systems and to boost the number of beds needed to isolate and treat victims of the epidemic. The Defense Department has asked Congress for nearly $500 million in existing funds to be put toward the effort. The money would otherwise be used to support overseas contingency operations, such as the drawdown of troops in Afghanistan.
The new initiatives include training as many as 500 health care workers a week; erecting 17 heath care facilities with approximately 100 beds each; setting up a joint command headquartered in Monrovia, Liberia, to coordinate between U.S. and international relief efforts; providing home health care kits to hundreds of thousands of households, including 50,000 that the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) will deliver to Liberia this week; and carrying out a home- and community-based campaign to train local populations on how to handle exposed patients."
At the time Obama defended it by saying we had to defeat it at it's source. In this case China wouldn't even let anyone in to monitor the situation.
I thought the topic was China. Please advise.
Stick to China
What shall we do about China?
This just in:
And now this:
foxnews.com/politics/china-used-air-travel-to-seed-virus-in-early-stage-top-wh-official-says
This helps:
AG Barr: "If technology companies like Apple are willing to oblige the demands of authoritarian regimes, they certainly have no excuse for failing to cooperate with rule-of-law nations."