American Must Be 'One Nation Under God,' Not Above God
By: Shane Idleman
Here’s an awesome tribute this Memorial Day to those who gave their all and to the exceptional America they made the supreme sacrifice to preserve.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
"We have forgotten God, and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own” (Abraham Lincoln).
Over the last few decades, Americans have seen the destruction of the institution of marriage between a man and a woman, the removal of God’s Word in several areas, and the aborting of millions of babies. Ironically, many of the men and women who died for our freedoms did not die for what we are becoming today. Many gave their lives so that we would be “one nation under God,” not above God.
A Fifth Division graveyard sign in Iwo Jima, Japan, states it well: “When you go home, tell them for us and say, ‘For your tomorrows we gave our today.’” What a travesty when we fail to honor those who gave their lives for the freedoms we now enjoy. This Memorial Day, let’s remember those who gave their lives and those who continue to defend our freedoms.
In the words of Mr. O’Brien who served in World War II: “It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.” O’Brien continues: “It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag.”
Let’s be very clear on this: “A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both” (Dwight D. Eisenhower). Historically, we know that God judged those nations who continually tolerated sin; wrong choices had devastating consequences. Arnold Toynbee, who wrote A Study of History , said: “Of the 22 civilizations that have appeared in history, 19 of them collapsed when they reached the moral state America is in today." Brace yourself ... this is a quote from the 1960s.
Most realize that a republican democracy, like ours in America, cannot last forever. Eventually, there is a collapse due to moral decay and financial irresponsibility—liberty often leads to abundance; abundance to complacency; complacency to apathy; apathy to a loss of freedom. Based on this, where are we today?
Unfortunately, countless people are confusing God’s patience with His approval. “Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever” (Thomas Jefferson). God, not the government, has the final say!
America has been desensitized one generation at a time, one court decision at a time, one compromise at a time, and we are drowning in a cesspool of relativism. “The wicked freely parade and prance about while evil is praised throughout the land” ( Psalm 12:8 ).
There are times to encourage, motivate, and uplift, but there are also times to confront, challenge, and contend for what is right—that time is now! We are experiencing the rapid deterioration of a nation right before our eyes. This is not the time for passivity, but for prayer...to weep, fast, and petition God. Woe be to the church who is in a hurry to burn through a sermon, scurry through worship, and head to the nearest restaurant.
We’ve heard these questions before, and we will hear them again: If not now, when? If not here, where? If not us, who? God said that He looked for a man from among the leaders who would build a wall and stand in the gap before Him on behalf of the land that He might not destroy it, but He found no one ( Ezekiel 22:30 ). This was true in Ezekiel’s day, and it’s true today. God is still looking for men and women to do what is right.
Today, the courts have taken it upon themselves to assume the role of a law-making body, rather than a protector of the Constitution; they have become political rather than constitutional. The wall of separation of church and state that was designed to protect America’s freedoms has now imprisoned her.
For those who believe we should remain passive and silent, I challenge you to read the writings of the Old Testament prophets. They lamented, shed tears, and pleaded with the people and the leaders to turn from their sins and to turn back to God—they spoke the truth in love. Even Jesus wept for Jerusalem when He saw that her destruction was near.
One of my great concerns is for the pulpits of America. Many are exchanging truth for tolerance, boldness for balance, and conviction for cowardliness. We don’t want to offend; we might lose our audience. But we are not to seek the applause of men but the applause of God.
Pastors (and Christian leaders alike) must take responsibility for the spiritual health of our people. The pulpit inevitably sets the tone of the religious climate of the nation. A culture void of God simply reflects the lack of conviction in the pulpit as well as the pew.
I conclude with words from John Winthrop (1588-1649)—one of the leading figures in the founding of the Massachusetts Bay Colony , “We shall be a city upon a hill, the eyes of all people are upon us; so that if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work we have undertaken, and so cause Him to withdraw His present help from us, we shall be made a story and a byword through the world.”
But hope is found in the famous Scripture that many love to quote but few want to obey: 2 Chronicles 7:14 calls out from the past with resounding clarity to America today: “If My people will humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven, forgive their sins, and heal their land.”
Without question, repentance, prayer, and humility before God is our only hope. Please listen to both sermons here and here .
Photo courtesy: ©Getty Images/Ehrlif
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For those who believe we should remain passive and silent, I challenge you to read the writings of the Old Testament prophets. They lamented, shed tears, and pleaded with the people and the leaders to turn from their sins and to turn back to God—they spoke the truth in love. Even Jesus wept for Jerusalem when He saw that her destruction was near.
One of my great concerns is for the pulpits of America. Many are exchanging truth for tolerance, boldness for balance, and conviction for cowardliness. We don’t want to offend; we might lose our audience. But we are not to seek the applause of men but the applause of God.
Pastors (and Christian leaders alike) must take responsibility for the spiritual health of our people. The pulpit inevitably sets the tone of the religious climate of the nation. A culture void of God simply reflects the lack of conviction in the pulpit as well as the pew.
I conclude with words from John Winthrop (1588-1649)—one of the leading figures in the founding of the Massachusetts Bay Colony , “We shall be a city upon a hill, the eyes of all people are upon us; so that if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work we have undertaken, and so cause Him to withdraw His present help from us, we shall be made a story and a byword through the world.”
But hope is found in the famous Scripture that many love to quote but few want to obey: 2 Chronicles 7:14calls out from the past with resounding clarity to America today: “If My people will humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven, forgive their sins, and heal their land.” https://thenewstalkers.com/vic-eldred/group_discuss/8534/american-must-be-one-nation-under-god-not-above-god
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ1ifi8wC5k
John Winthrop (1588-1649)—“We shall be a city upon a hill, the eyes of all people are upon us; so that if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work we have undertaken, and so cause Him to withdraw His present help from us, we shall be made a story and a byword through the world.”
He is delving back 400 years to find guidance with which to live today. LOL.
We don't need or want to base modern America on the writings of Puritan extremists.
Philosophy is a true timeless pursuit. Religious extremism is not.
Oh Jeez!
Well, it's not so unusual really, as some people delve back to the Bronze Age to find guidance with what ancient men with pens wrote. Go figure. It's not much different than finding guidance through astrology or some BS like that. Personally, I prefer to remain more modern and rational in my thinking.
This article presumes that biblical words are to be taken as rules set down by our creator. That is an assumption. Based on the evidence we know these words were written by ancient men; there is no evidence that these words were in any way from the mind of the creator.
Next, whose religious interpretation is society supposed to follow? In the USA the dominant category of religion is Christianity but the various denominations of same differ considerably in what they think are God's rules. In other nations, Islam, Hindu, etc. are dominant. Should they too run their societies based on their religions ... also mere words from ancient men?
Societies should be based on secular law. While everyone should have the right to believe what they wish and practice same —as long as doing so does not cause societal harm— societies should have secular law that deals with societal factors such as peaceful coexistence, property rights, production and distribution, financial transactions, defense, consumer protection, etc. These laws should be predicated on historical lessons learned while considering contemporary capabilities and knowledge.
Some view a Christian theocracy in the USA to be ideal. I find that kind of thinking to be incredibly naive and dangerous.
This seed is not about theocracy or about forms of government. It’s about the people of America and those who served. Please for once at least try to stay on topic on one of my seeds...
We are one nation under the Constitution, not some deity. God is for the individual to choose for themself. Saying we are a nation under God implies everyone adheres to the same deity, which is simply not true. It also infers a theocratic tendency, which is as unconstitutional and unamerican as one can get!
The article opens with:
It continues with:
Etc.
This article (starting with the title) brings up the idea that God's laws should preempt those of man. I have written per the title and the content of this seed.
The Pledge of Allegiance
I pledge allegiance
to the Flag
of the United States of America, and to the Republic
for which it stands
one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Was there something you wished to say?
Not only that, but the Constitution clearly states that we are not a nation under god - we are a nation of LAWS - and not god's laws.
In God we Trust.
"We have forgotten God, and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own” (Abraham Lincoln).
That is a currency phrase and is not in the Constitution.
You may trust him - but there's many who don't.
I'd recommend you quit trying to push your religion on all of us on NT - just my humble recommendations.
It is our national motto.
Then why did you turn it into a religious (Christian) matter? Your assumption that our nation is a Christian nation is unfounded. Yes the Constitution mentions "God". But does NOT specify which God.
As a Veteran who will be spending time with Gold Star families of fallen friends / coworkers this weekend, it's a slap in their face.
Most will find it to be the tribute that it actually is....
Although “In God We Trust” is the official motto, “E Pluribus Unum”(“from many, one”) has long been acknowledged as a de facto national motto. After all, it is on the Great Seal of the United States, which was adopted in 1782. Moreover, in the 1770s and ’80s Congress opposed a theistic motto for the nation, and many of the founders worked hard to prevent one from being established.
It’s about religion and God. The words would apply to Muslims and Jews as well as Christians.
We have 2 mottos. Out of many, one. One nation under God, indivisible...
Actually, it doesn't.
The Pledge of Allegiance was written in August 1892 by the socialist minister Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). It was originally published in The Youth's Companion on September 8, 1892. Bellamy had hoped that the pledge would be used by citizens in any country.
The Pledge is a violation of the Establishment Clause.
One nation under God, indivisible... - incorrect - violates the Establishment Clause.
You think Muslims will see it as a Tribute? How about the Jewish? Or Satanists? Sikh? Atheists? Agnostics?
The Supreme Court ruled that it is not.
The Supreme Court ruled that it does not...
Link to that SCOTUS decision.
And THAT is what is the slap in the face. Memorial Day is not about religion or your God. It's to remember those who served this country and paid with their lives. Quit perverting it.
Again the seed was about the people of the country and their attitudes and values. It was not about the government at all except that we the people make our government what it is. Governments can’t bring people back to God. We the people can come back home to Him.
And we thank God for their service and preserving what they paid the ultimate price to protect. Do you really believe that Memorial Day will not be observed in Churches, Synagogues, and Mosques across the nation this weekend.
Why thank God for their service? He didn't serve. They did.
It does.
Personal view of one person.
Same as yours - personal view of one person.
Didn't think so.
Wasn’t it obvious?
The advocate for the religion of atheism Newdow tried to get under God and in God we Trust stricken from use in Public schools on those very grounds you mention and he and his secularist friends of the Court lost big time.
So what is this all about coming from you?:
Not only have you continued to discuss religion instead of strictly honoring our fallen soldiers, you insert (yet again) ridiculous claims into your comment.
Challenging your claim: Atheism is not a religion; it is the lack of belief that a god exists. An atheist is an individual who is not convinced a god exists. There is no belief system ... there is no belief.
They are no longer with us to thank. It was Gods divine providence that won us our independence in the battle against England and he’s blessed us since.
I only defend it when attacked. Your initial off topic response here made most of the discussion of this Memorial Day seed about religion. As to the religion of atheism, Newdow in the Supreme Court arguments stated it was a religion in his briefs.
The title of this seed and the majority of its content is proselytization. Look at all the blue in the post TiG@5.1.1 The blue content reads like a sermon. This seed is a Trojan Horse to proselytize while pretending to honor USA fallen soldiers.
For those who do not know the history of the pledge.
The Pledge of Allegiance was written in August 1892 by the socialist minister Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). It was originally published in The Youth's Companion on September 8, 1892. Bellamy had hoped that the pledge would be used by citizens in any country.
In its original form it read:
In 1923, the words, "the Flag of the United States of America" were added. At this time it read:
In 1954, in response to the Communist threat of the times, President Eisenhower encouraged Congress to add the words "under God," creating the 31-word pledge we say today. Bellamy's daughter objected to this alteration.
UShisory.org
The Founding Fathers came up with the first motto. Religious conservatives pushed for the second. There is also no instance anywhere that the Founding Fathers ever said under god or in god we trust.
Speak for yourself.
Wrong! Memorial Day is about honoring the Veterans who served this country, not god.
Not when you initially leave a blank post.
And But it is not an actual religion. Deeming it as such is just plain stupid!
to many people, that doesn't include god.
Or we the people can forgo self delusions and irrationality.
Why thank god? Thank those who actually served.
Where?
Still trying to peddle that atheism is a religion crap?
Actually, the court deemed Mr. Newdow lacked lacked legal standing to sue.
Where in the history books does it say god picked up a musket and fought the British? That was the Founding Fathers and the colonists.
Atheism is a "religion" in the sense it is equally recognized and protected under the law as any religion. Deeming it as such is just plain stupid.
They made the right choice in 1954. It now fully expresses who and what we are as a country and we happily pledge our allegiance to the flag and the republic it represents.
He seems to not realize that a sizeable portion of us have been exposed to this mythology in our youth...and later on in life had to reject it as being not true for lack of verifiable evidence.
Why would a loving god create people, only to later destroy them...knowing beforehand that they would not be able to "meet the mark"?
By the way...the is no geological evidence of a global flood anywhere in Colorado.
That is the intellectually honest response to a lack of evidence. Many atheists were once theists.
"God works in mysterious ways?" At least, that's one reply I've seen when a logical contradiction is pointed out.
Or anywhere else in the world. All geological evidence seems to directly contradict the notion of a world wide flood.
John 15:13 is so apt a reminder of the supreme sacrifice we Memorialize today.
Most realize that a republican democracy, like ours in America, cannot last forever. Eventually, there is a collapse due to moral decay and financial irresponsibility—liberty often leads to abundance; abundance to complacency; complacency to apathy; apathy to a loss of freedom. Based on this, where are we today?
Unfortunately, countless people are confusing God’s patience with His approval. “Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever” (Thomas Jefferson). God, not the government, has the final say! https://thenewstalkers.com/vic-eldred/group_discuss/8534/american-must-be-one-nation-under-god-not-above-god#cm1319709
When it comes to Memorial Day, the poem "For the Fallen" by Laurence Binyon, IMHO is fitting.
“When you go home, tell them for us and say, ‘For your tomorrows we gave our today.’” What a travesty when we fail to honor those who gave their lives for the freedoms we now enjoy. This Memorial Day, let’s remember those who gave their lives and those who continue to defend our freedoms.
In the words of Mr. O’Brien who served in World War II: “It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.” O’Brien continues: “It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag.”
Let’s be very clear on this: “A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both” (Dwight D. Eisenhower).
https://thenewstalkers.com/vic-eldred/group_discuss/8534/american-must-be-one-nation-under-god-not-above-god#cm1319721
You actually got something right this time - drop your "messaging" 'bout god and pay attention to 3.1. - then your thread will be correct.
That is a portion of the seeded article
The fact is that virtually every American holiday has a religious context within or behind it so secularists can never ever celebrate anything about America without there being a religious context.
You know, you're not making any friends among nonbelieving conservatives here. But carry on. It's fun to watch.
We agree on enough other stuff. Besides we are part of a coalition economic, national defense, social conservatives) that makes their and our secular goals possible. They, we wouldn’t have lower taxes, fewer regulations, a stronger defense, a conservative judiciary without us being at their side. Reagan, Bush 43, and Trump accepted us while Bush 41, Dole, McCain, Romney not so much.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAnAa-jjjCU/?igshid=1c9h0wngsetft
As a gold star mom, this article/seed is offensive and just wrong.
This nation is a nation of laws, NOT God's laws...
What does gay marriage and abortion have anything to do with Memorial Day....NOTHING.
The article wasn’t about government. It was about the people of this country that those who died we now memorialize to preserve our freedom, liberty, and values. It’s about we the people collectively making individual good choices to preserve our great nation and secure the blessings from on High for our people.
Here is your seed. The parts in blue speak of God, moral decay in the USA and our system of government. This is a Trojan Horse seed ... proselytizing while advertising as a tribute to our fallen soldiers:
It’s like the President of the United States of America said Friday, religion and the free exercise there of is ESSENTIAL and mayors and governors can no longer infringe.
This seed is a Trojan Horse; proselytizing while pretending to be a tribute to our fallen soldiers.
The seed itself is a huge insult to our fallen men and women in uniform.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAjnnouotil/?igshid=az6n2t0qzkn5
There is no pretending about it. It is a tribute to the fallen soldiers and to the country and its values they died trying to preserve.
I wasn't the one who said anything about pretending. It was TiG. Keep your facts straight.
This article/seed is more christian whining dressed up in the guise of a tribute to Memorial Day.
I ask for a second time, what does gay marriage and abortion have to do with Memorial Day.....NOTHING.
And what does that have to do with religion?
Absolutely nothing.
Exactly!
What the fuck does that statement have to do with Memorial Day & honoring our military past & present?
To quote Kavika above, "Absolutely nothing."
Religious people can commemorate the heroes who died to preserve our freedoms as much as anyone else can. Most of those who died observed a religion and would not have objected to mentioning God at their funerals or any future memorials. That we believers bring our beliefs into our exceptional nation founded by divine providence that recognizes God as the author of human rights in our founding document and its holidays is not at all unreasonable. It would be unreasonable and irrational to exclude us and our expressions at such times
As you say, that is just your beliefs, and nothing more.
They are anything but just my beliefs. They are the beliefs of tens of millions of Americans all across the country. The Christian sites I go to all had various Memorial Day tributes similar to the one I seeded. It is the intrinsically vile and evil FFRF and the like that would turn a Memorial Day weekend tribute into a hatefest against God and those who dare to express belief in Him.
An argumentum ad populum. If tens of millions of people believe a stupid thing, it is still a stupid thing. And possibly wrong too regardless.
[Deleted]
Because some secularists like to tell us that they know everything there is to know and that they are set above the rest of humanity that has belief in any sort of theistic beings or even The One True God of Abraham. This select group of them are the enlightened ones who belittle believers in the name of their version of logic and reason. This group calls themselves pro science because they see no place for God anywhere in the universe He created and they label all who do as practitioners in pseudoscience even if they believe that God played a role in the holy grail of evolutionary theory.
[Deleted]
In this you aren't claiming that religious people can commemorate heroes. You are trying to make it about religion.
No one is excluding you from Memorial Day. It's your twisted idea that it's a religious thing. We are NOT a "christian nation". E Pluribus Unum not only covers place of origin but religion and hundreds of other aspects of life as well. Your lack of acknowledgement of that is disrespectful to everybody.
Who says that exactly? Or are you just making another generalization?
No, we challenge claims of certainty that some believers make. That's not belittlement. And stop with the victim complex. It's quite silly.
Prove or provide empirical evidence for a god then! You've been challenged to do so and have had ample opportunities to do so many times. That's how science works: with EVIDENCE! Evolution has empirical evidence to support it. Therefore, it is an accepted scientific theory. There is none to support the existence of any god/s.
So if I do not believe in YOUR god I am not a patriotic American? So much for the Constitution.
Perhaps. But to him, you would be worshipping a "false god," possibly resulting in you not being "saved."
Everyone who has lived according to the best info God has shown them in their lives from the ancient days after the flood to the present will most certainly be saved. All the people during the 1st covenant who weren’t in Israel and during the 2nd who lived nowhere near a Christian nation that applies to as well. People in those places, times, and cultures as well as people now who don’t live up to and grow in what has been revealed to them as an individual person most certainly will not be.
How do you know this?
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAm47lRjef1/?igshid=2pdjixzd675m
Your replies do not address mine or TiG's posts. They're off topic.
Your and TiG’s posts are the off topic derailments of this seed.
Not when they are replies to what you have posted. Seeders do not get to veer off-topic and then proclaim that replies to those comments are off-topic.
Have you said or done anything today to do what this seed refers to?
They're in response to your and others posts.
God Bless America, home of the free because of the brave.
Yep, and not because of some invisible sky fairy!
Actually we were founded by divine providence in our Revolutionary War and our rights came directly from God. We were all created equal in His sight.
Actually, you are wrong and that is just a belief.
Actually,nobody but you said that. I sure didn’t.
The actual title of the piece suggests that.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAm4_9CDUff/?igshid=pzbe9kbaexn
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[https://www.instagram.com/p/CAlHv8_nATY/?igshid=v32jz0czj5si]
This seed/article does not honor our fallen troops in any way shape or form. It's more whining christian faux outrage in the guise of a faux tribute.
It’s a free country and people can choose to include God in the celebration or commemoration of our Holy Days as they see fit.
Memorial day is not a holy day....this seed/article is complete bs.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAlSkFXAbBM/?igshid=15j869lrafkhd
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAlbTIeBzXV/?igshid=wtqwhuxfcmr6