Virginia crowd dismantles Confederate monument to cheers; falling statue injures protester

"At one point, video shows a protester being struck by a falling Confederate statue. He was struck in the head and taken to a hospital, according to the Daily Press."

Chalk one up for the statues!

Trump is off topic

Funny.

Can't you just see the headlines or the lead-ins on CNN or MSNBC?

"Confederates attack peaceful protesters"

You got it!  The cultural revolution has begun, all of it aided by progressive mayors & governors.

We are surrounded by them

Even representatives in the House:

Keep defending statues of confederate generals and the names of confederate generals used as military bases. Keep doing it. You will speed the change along. 

Plainly put, Lee, Jackson, Bragg, and the rest committed treason, however much they may have agonized over it. The majority of them had worn the uniform of the   U.S.   Army, and that Army should not brook any celebration of those who betrayed their country.

A long-standing maxim for those in uniform that one should never begin a war without also knowing how to end it. And this is a kind of war—a war of memory. The forts named for Confederate generals were established before the formulation of the rules now codified in  Army Regulation 1-33 , which sets the criteria for memorializing soldiers. But, as is so often the case when the Army is found to have fallen short of its elemental values, it also possesses the remedy. While the regulation states, “Rememorializing or rededicating actions are strongly discouraged, and seldom appropriate,” it also outlines a clear administrative process to follow when they are. This is the moment to pursue that process.

David Petraeus

defenseone

I've said it before and I'll say it again. These are not statues I would prefer in my town, but I don't really care if other people have it in their town. I imagine I probably don't support every person immortalized in stone in my part of the world, either. It's not worth destroying public or private property, though. Not everything goes the way you'd like. That's life.

Plainly put, Lee, Jackson, Bragg, and the rest committed treason, however much they may have agonized over it. The majority of them had worn the uniform of the   U.S.   Army, and that Army should not brook any celebration of those who betrayed their country.

Is this treason bit really the sticking point? George Washington fought on behalf of the British Empire before leading the Americans in rebellion against them. We aren't tearing his statues down and calling him a traitor, but if he had lost the war, he surely would have been shot or hanged. Or worse? Were they still drawing and quartering in the 1780s?

Meanwhile, the United States and the United Kingdom now each consider the other to be their closest friend and ally in the world. After a while, you get over it, ya know?

There is even a statue of George Washington in Trafalgar Square in London. Bygones being bygones?

There is even a statue of George Washington in Trafalgar Square in London. Bygones being bygones?

Most folks are grownups, others still aren't out of the temper tantrum stage of growth yet.

Keep defending statues

Keep defending vandalism & mob rule. You will help the country decide.

Oh yes, David Petraeus!  He is signaling virtue these days?

Ask him what the US military thinks of generals committing felonies or mishandling classified information or how about medals & awards for "leadership under fire" presented to a general lacking any direct combat experience?

As for military installations that have become "time honored" and synonymous with the names of AMERICAN Generals - no progressive will be changing those names for some time.

Your characterization of Americans as "traitors" is something I'd expect from the progressive Lawrence O'Donnell. I could say the same about the mob which took control of the six blocks of Seattle! TRAITORS!

After a while, you get over it, ya know?

Nah, not the progressive left.

They have a pathological need to push their idea of morality on everyone else.

No matter what.   Sound familiar?   Hint, they wore brown shirts.

Is this treason bit really the sticking point? George Washington fought on behalf of the British Empire before leading the Americans in rebellion against them. We aren't tearing his statues down and calling him a traitor, but if he had lost the war, he surely would have been shot or hanged. Or worse? Were they still drawing and quartering in the 1780s?

This is one of the most illogical things I think I have ever read on Newstalkers. 

George Washington fought on behalf of the British Empire before leading the Americans in rebellion against them.

Robert E Lee, and other confederate generals fought for the United States before committing treason against it.  So what?  And what war after his treason did Lee fight in on behalf of the United States to redeem himself?  That would be none. 

There is no doubt that there were many brave men in the Confederate army that died with the belief they were fighting for their country, the South.  But the South is not a country and they lost the war, and it was 160 years ago. Stop flying a flag that celebrates slavery. Take down the statues of those who fought to preserve slavery, its very simple. 

That's for sure.

This is one of the most illogical things I think I have ever read on Newstalkers. 

You clearly haven't been paying very good attention then ......

This is one of the most illogical things I think I have ever read on Newstalkers. 

Speaking of what is "illogical" - Thomas Sowell posed this question:

"Have we reached the ultimate stage of absurdity where some people are held responsible for things that happened before they were born, while other people are not held responsible for what they themselves are doing today?"


Robert E Lee, and other confederate generals fought for the United States before committing treason against it. 

Robert E Lee was perhaps one of, if not, the greatest military mind in history, for that alone, he is to be commemorated and enshrined in the history books!

There is no doubt that there were many brave men in the Confederate army that died with the belief they were fighting for their country, the South.  But the South is not a country and they lost the war, and it was 160 years ago. Stop flying a flag that celebrates slavery. Take down the statues of those who fought to preserve slavery, its very simple. 

The issues of statues & old flags are to be decided by the people, not a leftist mob. For instance, the people of Georgia decided to change their state flag in 2003. It was done democratically!


Prior Georgia State Flags


Current Georgia State Flag


The 2003 design won 73.1% of the vote in the referendum.

 Book burning can't be far off!

"Racism is not dead, but it is on life support -- kept alive by politicians, race hustlers and people who get a sense of superiority by denouncing others as 'racists' "
Thomas Sowell

"Have we reached the ultimate stage of absurdity where some people are held responsible for things that happened before they were born, while other people are not held responsible for what they themselves are doing today?"

Very wise words from a very smart man.

Nah, not the progressive left. They have a pathological need to push their idea of morality on everyone else.

Morality? Are you talking about the morality of people who celebrate a flag that stood for the preservation of slavery? 

Conservatives like to brag that they are the people who know right from wrong. Well, it's wrong to revere the confederacy, the flag and the generals. Get over it. 

Robert E Lee was perhaps one of, if not, the greatest military mind in history, for that alone, he is to be commemorated and enshrined in the history books!

History books commemorate and enshrine Genghis Khan and Atilla The Hun, so I guess a noble fellow like Robert E Lee can be enshrined in history books, but, because he committed treason on behalf of a slave nation that fought the United States, we dont need him commemorated with public statues.

By the way, I would suggest you look at the book Lost Cause : Why The South Fought The Civil War And Why The North Won It .   It has an entire chapter debunking Lee's military "genius". 

I think I have typed this before but the South did not lose the war. Once they found out what the North wanted and it wasn't after their women, they went home.

Oh. 

but, because he committed treason on behalf of a slave nation that fought the United States, we dont need him commemorated with public statues.

Neither Lee nor many of the Confederate soldiers fought for slavery. You are giving a modern day progressive interpretation of why they fought. From the perspective of southerners who fought, they were defending their home. As for the states they served, there was the belief that they had enough autonomy to leave the union. So you see John, as much as you have tried to make this about the idea of should there be statues - the real question is, again, who decides?

We the People or a left wing mob?

This is one of the most illogical things I think I have ever read on Newstalkers. 

So you had to top it?

Stop flying a flag that celebrates slavery. Take down the statues of those who fought to preserve slavery, its very simple. 

How does a flag celebrate slavery? Now the flag may trigger some snowflakes because it reminds them of their parties past. But what it symbolizes is in the eye of the beholder. What does a bunch of Democrats wearing a kente symbolize?

So I guess in proglib world we she do away with the Democrat party for they have a racist past, right JR?

Of course, you are re-iterating the "lost cause" revisionist theory of the Civil War. In 1861, everyone knew that secession and thus the war was caused by the election of Abraham Lincoln, who was known to be against slavery and would prevent it from spreading further to the west. Without spread of slavery to the west, the slave states would soon be outnumbered in Congress. 

When the individual states seceded they published "declarations" which laid out their reasons for seceding . These declarations of the states are littered with paragraph after paragraph glorifying slavery and excoriating the North for not respecting the south's right to own slaves. 

Everyone in 1861 knew what was going on. It is only the revisionists who dont. 

Saying the Confederate flag doesnt celebrate slavery would be like saying the American flag doesnt celebrate freedom. 

Of course, you are re-iterating the "lost cause" revisionist theory of the Civil War.

It is the left that has a revisionist theory. 


the war was caused by the election of Abraham Lincoln, who was known to be against slavery and would prevent it from spreading further to the west.

That statement is very misleading. Yes, the south seceded as soon as Lincoln was elected. However, from Lincoln's perspective that act by itself was cause for war. Thus the Civil War began as a matter of "states rights" vs preserving "the Union."  Do you doubt that?  Take it from Lincoln himself:

"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."

It was much later that Abraham Lincoln evolved on the issue and placed the eradication of slavery above simply preserving the union.


That's the end of your history lesson for today. Back to who should decide?

Nah, you get over it.  

Unlike you I'm against mob rule, illegal destruction of public property and the systematic sanitizing of history based on a crazy left wing moonbat narrative.   You want em down.   Do it legally.   Otherwise you simple are what you say you abhor.

Who decides John?

This is one of the most illogical things I think I have ever read on Newstalkers. 

Do you not realize what an empty statement that is unless you go on to explain why it's illogical? When you don't, it's just name-calling.

And what war after his treason did Lee fight in on behalf of the United States to redeem himself? That would be none. 

What war did Washington fight in to redeem himself with the English? That would be none. And yet they built a statue for him.

There is no doubt that there were many brave men in the Confederate army that died with the belief they were fighting for their country, the South.  But the South is not a country and they lost the war, and it was 160 years ago.

So we should also not build statues for Native American warriors? They weren't a country either, and they also lost a war.

Stop flying a flag that celebrates slavery.

George Washington owned slaves. Here is a painting representing that.

Yet he is the "Father of Our Country." The Capital and a state are named after him. His face is on the money. I think you're probably familiar with him.

I'm not looking to celebrate slavery either, and I have said multiple times that these confederate icons are not symbols I would choose for myself. However, I think when we look back into history we need to acknowledge that some issues were a lot more gray - or even clearly accepted the other way - than they are today.

Today, for many in the South, these symbols are about more than just slavery. Historical people or their symbols do not have one, and only one, meaning of significance. If you keep demanding that only perfect people get statues, then we won't have any statues.

Regardless of how you feel about the statues, violently tearing them down, at risk to human life, is not the way to go about it.

Today, for many in the South, these symbols are about more than just slavery.

You bend over backwards to make excuses for racists, dipshits, and morons, as long as they are conservatives. 

If you dont understand the difference between the United States of America , and its constitution, and the Confederate States of America and its constitution, I cant help you. 

In the CSA, abolishing slavery was unconstitutional. 

I don't give a shit if someone thinks the confederate flag appropriately represents their fond sentiments about the south,  it is the representation of the world's first avowed white supremacist nation. 

The same for statues of confederate heroes. 

Saying the Confederate flag doesnt celebrate slavery would be like saying the American flag doesnt celebrate freedom.

It might interest you to know that some people have said that.

Nike Pulls Shoes Featuring Betsy Ross Flag Over Concerns About Racist Symbolism

an embroidery of the famous flag featuring 13 stars for the original 13 colonies — drew complaints that it celebrates an era in U.S. history when slavery was legal and commonplace. While the flag's defenders say it has a place in history, critics say it has become a symbol of extreme views.

The American Flag is a Symbol of Oppression

It isnt difficult to differentiate between the United States of America and the Confederate States of America. 

One of them made it unconstitutional to ever end slavery. 

You bend over backwards to make excuses for racists, dipshits, and morons, as long as they are conservatives. 

That's not true. I would defend you even though you say you are not a conservative.

And anyway, are you implying I am conservative? I'm actually pretty liberal (have you seen the rainbow in my avatar?). What I am not, is a light my hair on fire, scream at the sky, virtue signaler who gets his self esteem by impressing others with how outraged or woke he is by accusing and judging other people.

I'm not saying that's you. What I will say is that I have seen that kind of crap in the Democratic Party for several years now and it's a big reason why I left the Democratic Party and I now belong to no party.

In the CSA, abolishing slavery was unconstitutional.

Yep. And the USA didn't abolish it until 1865. So don't get too proud.

it is the representation of the world's first avowed white supremacist nation

Considering slavery was allowed based on race in the United States of America for over four score years, I'd say you've got it wrong if you think the CSA was the first white supremacist nation.

it is the representation of the world's first avowed white supremacist nation

Considering slavery was allowed based on race in the United States of America for over four score years, I'd say you've got it wrong if you think the CSA was the first white supremacist nation.

Have you ever read the cornerstone speech by the vice president of the CSA, Alexander Stephens? He brags about the Confederacy being the worlds first white supremacist nation. 

He brags about the Confederacy being the worlds first white supremacist nation.

He probably bragged about having a big dick, too. That doesn't make it true.

You do realize that it was Democrats that put up all these confederate statues and monuments, certainly no self respecting Yankee would do it.

It looks like it's the people themselves that are taking down the statues. That must save time and cost too, as they skip the red tape of town hall to petition it's removal.

Have we reached the ultimate stage of absurdity where some people are held responsible for things that happened before they were born, …”

Sowell is an idiot who works for one of those ‘foundations’ that is a welfare program funded by wealthy conservatives to obfuscate for conservative nonsense. But, I digress.

The quoted statement is nonsense. If a corporation does something very wrong, does a change in ownership/management absolve the corporation of responsibility for its wrongdoing? Hint, the answer is NO. We are the current owners of the USA, and we reap not only the benefits of that ownership, but the responsibility for its past.

We shall see how much the American people are willing to take!

Most of us won't be kneeling down!

Have you ever read the cornerstone speech by the vice president of the CSA, Alexander Stephens?

A member of the democratic party. Oh, I know, why not change the name of the democratic party which was so closely aligned with slavery, racism and birthed the KKK?

You've been doing just that since the last election.

We shall see how much the American people are willing to take! Most of us won't be kneeling down!

What exactly is it that you are clutching your pearls over when confederate memorials are removed? You're just being a snowflake; manufacturing a way to feel victimized by something of no consequence to you.

Finally...

I watched that last night.   It was like watching a troop of monkeys trying to fuck a football at same time.

That group clearly were the slowest swimmers in their collective beginnings .....

Toppling statues of southern Democrats is a start.  Jefferson Davis was a Democrat.  The Democratic Party defended and protected slavery.  The Democratic Party is the only pro-slavery political party that continued after the Civil War.  Democrats weren't neo-Confederates; they were the real deal.

Removing the symbols isn't enough.  We need to remove the (lost) cause, as well.

United we stand, divided we are Democrats.

Most of them saw the light in 1964, others continued their racist ways all their lives.

I guess some of the punks in BLM need to take a fucking history lesson before they go off half fucking cocked. This is the backside of the monument. The front was protected with plywood.......................

Idiots.....................

The next thing they'll tell us is that picture is fake. It is real!

Yes it is real.....................

" The conservator's recent prep work protected the front of the bronze relief with plywood, but its granite backside was vandalized with four-letter words and phrases including “Black Lives Matter,” “No Justice, No Peace,” and “Police are Pigs.”

wbur