Is your “White Privilege” Showing?
There was recently a discussion thread here in which an essay by Peggy McIntosh called White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack was mentioned - I forgot who brought it up (sorry) but I did make a note of it and later, went back to read the entire article here .
Ive heard that phrase before more than a few times over the years, first as white male privilege which is in itself, an entire topic. However, if you read about white privilege separately, it is pretty damning. Whites take so many things for granted, such as the color of a band-aid to how you get treated by others.
McIntosh lists fifty examples of white privilege in her essay, but the list is by no means all-inclusive. While there are limits to this, for example, white privilege does not automatically mean one is racist, prejudice or bias, it does signify an invisible world coexisting around whites.
White Privilege is a point of view one does not see unless you step outside of it and when you do, it shatters assumptions. I go occasionally to a supermarket in Milwaukee called El Rays. There is no separate isle called Ethnic Foods and everything is labeled in Spanish and displayed according to certain customs. If you are not used to places like this, its almost like walking into another wordso to speak.
Now, unfortunately, there are those taking the concept of white privilege to a militant stage such as saying all WP is racist and conversely, white supremacists consider WP to be elite liberal talk.
Any thoughts?
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Thanks to my grandson, the bandaids in our house have Pokmon characters on them
An example of "alien" privilege I guess
Believe it or not, I look at the color of the heart - the skin don't mean anything and it never exposes a person's inner self.
1st warrior
Indeed!
1stwarrior
A very wise and forward looking black man felt the same way andtold us
In a way I agree with you. While I think you should read more on the topic, I will say the entire concept of "White Privilege" has flaws all over the place, especially when taken to extremes which many of it's proponents do. Some examples;
1) Is this race we are dealing with or culture? In Japan, everything is oriented to the Japanese way of life. Everything that is listed here as supposedly being a "white privilege" can easily be called a "Japanese or Asian Privilege" over there. The same applies to all the countries in the world. The idea that whites, as opposed to Europeans, homogenizing their ways of life or individual cultures, become some kind of all-encompassing entity called "white", shows gross ignorance and sets the stage for more self-victimization.
2) The sins of my father - In my personal dealing with blacks, I never apologize for being white and refuse to accept any culpability of past crimes against blacks, simply because I am white. Genetically, while I am more Nordic, I also have French, English, German and Polish blood in me. The idea that because I am white, I must shoulder some responsibility for past deeds is absolutely archaic and has it's roots in superstitions.
3) The US stands unique in the world, but not special. - I reject "American exceptionalism" and any ethnocentrisms associated with that. A supreme divinity did not not make America for just whites or Europeans nor has he/she given the US some kind of cosmic blessing reserved only for us. Also, this country is still very, very, very young when compared to the history of humankind and true greatness is achieved over time.
Yes, we are the mixing pot of the world but our true test is something we are already failing. We are constantly finding reasons to divide us and "white privilege" is just another tool to achiving disunity.
Mike said: "What I do know is I'm sick and tired of being expected by some to have to apologize for being white. I'm also sick and tired of it being assumed that because I'm white somehow I haven't earned my position in society through hard work and perseverance rather than it being given to me only because I am white. "
I don't think that was the point, at all, of the article. You seem to think that because you have worked hard to get where you are that makes the assumption ofanyprivileges at all void. No one is saying that you did not work hard (at least that is not my contention) or asking for you to somehow become subservient to whichever group. The article is about cultural and societal norms that are unquestioned in the normal course of events.
The fact of your vehement disallowing of the veracity of the article shows that you are blind to the possibility of any privileges that may or may not have been bestowed upon you by simple fact of who you are.
John
I am sure your statement makes sense in some context but not in response to a citation of a MLK quote on how we should live our lives.
Unless of course you disagree with what MLK said
Is that it?
That is true but wisdom alone doesn't change anything. Dr King made his "I have a Dream" speech on August 28, 1963. How far have we as a society regressed since then?
Words without deeds are useless.
Some people LOVE feeling guilty . I choose to not waste energy on that .
Some people would disagree with you about President Obama being the worst in history, I would say the one we had before Bush/Cheney would fit in that category, People vote for the person who best fits their beliefs and values and most Americans voted for the person who best fits their beliefs, I tend to believe that the more educated a voter is and the more a person can discern and make intelligent decisions, they tend to cast their votes in that direction...
And how do we exercise those deeds?? it starts at the "TOP" it starts in Washington D.C. it starts with our Legislatures, it starts in our homes, it starts in our schools, Churches, State Govt.. City Govt. on the air waves, it starts everywhere, we cannot have one group trying to start a positive conversation about race and the other dragging that conversation into the gutter and claiming they are been attacked, we first have to become civilized people to start an intelligent conversation, one group cannot perceive they are been mistreated in education, health care, housing and employment and not feel resentment, it starts with listening to each other and moving forward, nothing can be done about the past but somethings can be changed for the future with us working together as Americans to make the Country better for all Americans...
I took the time to read through that list of 50 items . And then I decided to not waste additional energy on them ...
Read them yourself . Then tell me which ones are worthwhile ...
BF said:
"What you have to do is wake up every day and apologize for something you had no control over."
Why on earth would you do that? All facetiousness aside, this article points up a pet peeve of mine: The tendency of humans to think in dichotomous terms. That is, to reduce the options of an argument down to athis or that choice, excluding the possibilities of alternate explanations and combinations of ideas.
You can see the result of this dichotomous thinking by looking at the make up of congress (Either a D or an R in front of most members), by looking at the output of the congress (polarized legislation bouncing back and forth between the chambers) and by looking at most of the arguments made about this thing or that here on NT. In the end, it all appears rather childish and like we can't really come to an agreement.
The way that certain members of the NT community would present this argument, in barest form, is something like this:
The idea of white privilege is asking that whites apologize for everything they have because it was gotten unfairly and we should therefore let people of different color, ethnicity or whatever feel superior to us. I know that I have worked hard to achieve what I have made of myself, so this can't be the case, and white supremacy is a big bag of horse shit.
This argument ignores the fact that white privilege is just an idea to be explored on it's merits, not a call to subjugate oneself. This misrepresentation seems to be abundant and clear, not just here on NT, but amongst the public at large.
Probably had a hard enough time describing the invisible knapsack.
I've already stated my view . None of them are worthwhile . Nice tap dance to avoid committing yourself to a position ...
You decide...
I already know why there is no discussion on that subject, you use your mind and figure it out...do not respond to me unless you have a solution, I do not want to hear stupidity...
You lack the art of reading comprehension so its best you not respond to any writings you don't understand...
Would a whitefish be better?
I have no interest in responding to any of your comments and I ask you do the same for mine, you are disrespectful, not a gentleman and have the lack of decent dialogue, I have seen your abusive language in many situations when it was not warranted, therefore, do not respond to my comments and I will do the same for yours...
Robert,
You are making yourself look as foolish and childish as petey and badfish.
Aeon,
Interesting topic. Just like most things in life, this one ain't black & white, pun intended. But before I go there, I wasn't sure if the article dismissed people who are Asian or Latino or Indian, or Indian... you get where I am going. Also race, is a strange thing. There are whites, who are not considered white, but "ethinc". My daughters and husband are always asked questions about that. The question usually means that you are not really white . So while we can talk about being white, one must understand that white is all relative. Many of that list would apply to both my children and husband... and they are white, by genetics... but I digress....
The reason I said the discussion isn't black & white is two fold. The first is that it really depends on where you are living. Where I live, very few of that list applies. And maybe in other places it does. The second is that being black, has it's own biases. Do white folks have a "White Miss America'? Of course not! That would be racist. But there is a black Miss America. Can a white girl try out for it? IDK.
Of course a total denial that there is still racism in America is absurd. But what I am saying is that there is a whole lot of us v them out there, and it isn't just black and white, but an array of bias by an array of people. BTW, this will all be a redundant question by 2043, when whites stop being the majority.
Aeon--
Tnx and a tip of the Swami's turban for another thought-provoking (and comment-provoking) article. Really an astonishing shit-storm of off-the-hook remarks for what's really a fairly straightforward concept.
Most of us white folks aren't conscious of white privilege, like a fish isn't aware of water-- it's just the environment we live in. I take it for granted that as an older white guy, I'm not gonna be profiled (unless, of course, I'm driving in a 'black neighborhood' at 1 AM, in which case I must becruising for crack). If I want to walk into an 'upscale' dep't store and buy a $350 belt, I know the clerk isn't going to call the cops as soon as I walk away from the counter. When I get stopped for speeding, the cop runs my license & registration, but he doesn't ask how I can afford to drive a Porsche.
What's funny (maybe ironic) is how much of 'whiteness' is tied into being the right kind of white-- the stereotype middle-class white American, which is just the plain visual image of being an 'okay' kind of white guy. I noticed this a lot back in my happy hippy days, when I lost a lot of 'white privilege' simply by being a longhair weirdo-dressing character who was visibly 'different' and therefore must be some kind of threat (or provocation). I'd walk into the bank to deposit my paycheck, and so help me Dog I could see the security guard put his hand on his gun as soon as I came thru the door. It's 'white privilege', but it's also 'mainstream privilege', and anyone who steps outside of the mainstream can see it...
About half the people in the penitentiary today wouldn't be there if they owned a sport coat... judges tend to mete out sentences on the 'evidence' of a suit & tie-- it's visible proof you're one of the 'good guys'.
I giggled when I read this line. Try that wearing any color skin at Louis Vuitton, and I promise you will get arrested. Yet the store is full of people of every race. So again, I think it is a matter of where you are. What word we should be focusing on is privilege, and that knows no color other than green. (again, please don't take that as an absolute).
You are acting foolish RG . Clearly APax has not read the article she seeded , nor does she have an interest in the details ...
Is your White Privilege Showing?
White Privilege? ...... that is silly, whites are treated exactly precisely the same in all instances as people of color.
There is no more racism in America anymore; and the proof of this is that Barack Obama is President.
And as further proof of this I offer this link:
As I said prior to this, White Privilege is no more than a concept and a POV which is totally dependent on the culture, not the color of ones skin. It is not a deliberate course of action meant to exclude as opposed to a set of unconscious deportments of inclusions within a sub-set of people. Even though, while numerically in the majority at this time, (population wise) those with white skin are still a sub-set of the aggregate population here.
The key word here is privilege and its important to differentiate that from a right. For example, there is no constitutional provision that gives a person a right to drive it is called a privilege and must be earned.
Then there are courtesies such as a person giving up their seat for lets say an older person or pregnant female. Such things are not race endemic or an inherent privilege.
The womans movement is a classic example of a group asserting their rights under law, as opposed to tradition. Suffrage aside, it used to be considered a privilege for a woman to work outside the home or manage her own financial affairs.
The idea of white privilege as being this insidious evil is ludicrous as it flies in the face of the constitutional right for Freedom of Association. While many private country clubs are bastions for what appears to be the male, white rich and famous, they nonetheless can legally discriminate as most of them do so based on income or rather, your ability to pay dues to join them.
There are many variables to this but in the end; the concept of white privilege is no more than a device to promulgate another prevarication of white guilt which is an invention of social engineers, and that I also reject.
Thanks for your reply. You brought up another contentious issue, "prejudice" which I think is apart from white privilege. For example, a black male jogging around the block is stopped by police because they think he is running from a crime.
In mu OP, I brought up my entering an all-Latino grocery store, Aside from the language difference, there were different cuts of meat, different kinds of meats and different displays of meat that were leveraged to appeal to the Latino buyer only. Also, as many Latino's (Mexican) have a special devotion to "Nuestra Seora de Guadalupe" (Our Lady of Guadalupe) there are many glass candle lamps with her image on it, for sale. Also, if you went there around the end of the month of October, you also will see images, figurines and lamps celebrating "Dia del Muertos" (Day of the Dead) or "All-Souls day."
While many might consider aspects of that store as being "Latino Privilege" the concept becomes a matter of culture as opposed to privilege.
Racism still exists and the Republican party is living proof of that, but I digress.
Your statements are so honestly flawed, I seriously will not even attempt to argue them as you appear to be convinced that are true.
I would have to break down "white privilege" into two parts. While there is"white privilege", it is not always based on white, as in the race, but the status quo of the 20th century. So, let's take where I live, the north shore of Long Island. I live 1/2 a mile from the "Miracle Mile" that Billy Joel sang about in "It's still Rock n Roll to me". The towns here where built around the country club system. The original clubs would only allow in WASPS. So the Catholics got smart and built their own clubs... who excluded everyone who was not white and Catholic...which pissed off the Jews. Who built their club, but allowed anyone who lived in the town of Roslyn into it. The Jews recognized that on the North Shore, they had no"white privilege". In fact, it was so bad, that both Robert Moses, the famous designer of the Worlds Fair and road system here, and Otto Kahn, who builtOheka, the 2nd largest private residence in the US (and also used in the TV show Royal Pains), both converted toEpiscopalianto be excepted into"white privilege". So"white privilege" is far more about being part of an elite club and power, then it is about color.
I'm going to say yes and no about that. Having worked for 20 years in a inner city school, I can tell you, that if you are white, it takes a long time, before you are excepted into the community. You have to prove yourself. To do that, you must show them that you don't have the pretense of"white privilege", and before that happens, you quickly learn that you are not part of their status quo.
Orprejudice?
You must have missed the electoral map. The majority of states didn't vote for Obama, and in fact, the popular vote being as close as it was, your assumption that racism doesn't exist since we have a black president really can't be proved.
Racism exists and it crosses all races. It is not as simple as finding one glowing example, while dismissing the complexity of the issue.
Racism still exists; electing Obama as President is proof of that, as something like 96% of blacks voted for Obama both times. Racism goes both ways.
That's not entirely about race. Had Herman Cain won the Republican nomination in 2012, and happened to have been running against a white democrat, you wouldn't have seen the response you are alluding to.
I don't have a crystal ball to answer the what-ifs. Do you? Reality however, paints a convincing picture.
Wrong. That's called bias .
Larry,
For sure racism goes both ways. In fact, It isn't just a black and white issue. In my town, the Japanese don't send their kids to the public schools, and only Japanese schools, because they don't want their kids exposed to the other Asians. That is why the subject of racism is so complex.
I'm not that sure about that Hal. It's how Cain is perceived, which is an "Uncle Tom" , for lack of a better expression, by the black community and acceptable by the status quo.
jwc
The assumption that all white kept slaves and that is a reason not to trust them isridiculous. In fact, most Americans didn't keep slaves. And one shouldn't vote on skin color but on the merits of the individual running. Anything else is racist at worst, biased at best.
"One of my own kind" is a sure reflection of "fear of the other", and also one of the root causes of racism. I do agree with you however that whites are held to a differenrt standard than others at times, to go above and beyond proving that they are not racists.
If a Black votes Black it's bias, if a White votes White it's racism.
Got it.
Did you just make that concept up or are you trying to be absurd? I have never heard of whites voting for whites to be racists, not even from militant Blacks. Proof?
I'm just commenting on Larry's claims of overt racism/bias (whatever you want to call it) that lead to them voting for a black candidate solely for the reason that he was a black candidate. Of course there will be some of that, by ignorant people who don't even have a clue about what the differences are between republicans and democrats, but the African American community largely votes democrat - and that isn't about to change just because a black manhappens to beon the republican ballot. If Herman Cain were to switch teams, I could see him getting a significantly larger support from the African American community than as a republican, even as an Uncle Tom.
Hal,
You are basically right here. Most blacks do vote democrat. Still, the black community had almost no descention when voting for Obama:
I'm sure that is true. But one only needs to look at Marion Barry to know that the black community will vote for their own, even if the candidate is far less than even qualified. I don't condemn them for this. I feel pretty sure that other minority groups do the same thing. But denial is also unreal, too.
I disagree. I think in some times it arises from racism, but more often it is a desire to be empowered. To break through the status quo. I would bet that if the candidate was Chinese, the large majority of Chinese would vote for that candidate.
Except for the fact that he also sent out flyers, and ran adsthat left folks with the impression he was black. As a matter of fact, that was the big ta-doo, his detractors are claiming that he basically lied to people about his race. Voters thought that he was black!
Not causal, consequential.
Do you truly believe that somefolks have not voted race?
I think with Obama, there were blacks who voted for Obama because they were racist and I think that there were whites who didn't vote for him because they were racist. It rubs both ways.
It's not the schools here. We are among the top 200 schools in the US. That is why we pay killer school taxes. Also, out of school they are forbidden to play with non Japanese, so yeah it's bigotry.
I am not blind to the fact, that racism still exists. I am also sure that since blacks make up 17% of the US population, that many other whites and minority groups voted for him. But the assumption that if you didn't vote for him , it was because he is black is also wrong. It's as simple as him being a democrat and not a republican. Look at the holy hell Clinton went through with White Water. Race was no issue there, just sour grapes. But there was a group who definitely didn't vote for him, based on race.
Oh but I am, so I know about distrust.
True, but he couldn'twin the black vote on the national stage. He's a local phenomena. I dated an African American girl in DCfor a while, and I never could quiteunderstand her support of Barry. He may have been crooked as hell, but he genuinelymade an impact on the lower income DC African Americancommunity.
Of course....I said it's called " Bias " not racist.
Now why did you lead me in a circle? - HINT: the question is rhetorical.
John,
I am not sure if you are talking sociology or genetics here. White comes in many shades as does black. My own children are never taken as white... but white ethnic. That means that they are less than white. So really what we are talking about are WASPs and status quo and privilege. One might attainprivilege by money, and then a lot of that list goes away in many places here in the US.
Kind of true John. But it is hard not to talk about race and racism when discussing "white privilege". Otherwise, one can just go through that list and either say item 1 is wrong but item 2 is right. The idea of"white privilege" is maintaining a status quo that has been in the US since began.
Smile
Perrie Halpern , regarding reply:
Actually Perrie I was being sarcastic, I know that white supremacist racism is alive and well though not as pre-eminent as it was in the 20th Century; but the infection of racism is still with us.
In-fact racism is the engine that drives the Obama Hate Machine.
I was actually mocking theidea that there is no white privileg e if you see the link I provided it will show clearly that racist white privilege still exists:
Larry Hampton, regarding comment:
That makes no sense, blacks who voted for President Obama are not automatically racist just because they voted for him.
Guess what ... if a Jewish candidate was running for president most of the Jewish Americans would probably vote for him, same is true for any other nationality or ethnic group, and it the south it is not unheard of for a white candidate running against a black candidate to get most of the white votes, folks who call black voters racist when they vote for a black candidate don't make the same noise when white voters vote for white candidates, they don't notice or talk when that happens.
And why would African Americans vote Republican in the first place, it's not like Republicans have their best interest at heart, at every turn they have been hostile to African Americans; from voter suppression laws to stand your ground laws to hurting them economicallyor demonizing all young black American men with the racist stereo-typing as thugs.
They even did that to President Obama, calling him a "Thug President" and his lovely daughters "Tramps".
Same is true for Hispanics that is not racism, why would they vote for a party that hates them?
.
Agreed
Do you believe that racism played a part in the black vote for Obama at all?
You make it sound as if Obama has been helping the economy . He hasn't .
Larry Hampton, regarding question:
I guess to some degree it is possible, but there is no way to quantify that since I can't look into the innermost thoughts and motivations of millions of my fellow citizens to say exactly.
But in my personal opinion I feel that with the hostility that the Republicans have demonstrated towards people of color and the candidates that they fielded in both presidential campaigns against President Obama that the intelligence of the black electorate guided them in their voting choice more then racism, just like it did for millions of moderate Republicans who either voted for Obama or did not vote at all; because of the piss poor candidates that the Republicans put forward.
Oh I ain't gonna argue about piss poor candidates. I also don't argue about the take that some may have in regards to republicans and voter ID, gun control, even though I do disagree. I do think that that sheer numbers speak volumes though. Imho, there are votes cast during every election that are race based, and I believe that in the case of Obama, the numerical evidence is overwhelming.
Cheeky Indian!
Yes I am.
No harm no foul jwc.
Really. It's never happened before.
More crystal-ball wisdom.
Not like the % of the black vote received by Obama-the-almighty.
Dang itRandy!
:~)
It's tough to back-down from a bet.
How exactly should we stipulate this bet, and what would be the the prize?
Randy will take that bet....
He won his last one with Mike.
Be careful Larry, or you'll get sheered, LOL!
I'm white and comfortable with that. Not going to feel guilty a bit. And, I have no need to apologize to anyone.
Actually Randy, no white democrat has ever captured the percentage of black voters than Obama did, nor did they come out in the same numbers. Somewhere in this article is my post showing the stats. I think the best for a white candidate was like 80%
Larry Hampton, regarding reply:
People skewing more favorably towards a candidate because of similarity in race or ethnic make up or religion etc.... is not unusual in-fact it is usual.
But here is the thing of it Larry, that is not the over-riding consideration; if it were then, Alan Keys or the 999 guy (I forgot his name) would have gotten more black votes.
African American voters are a lot more sophisticated then you give them credit for, they have demonstrated that if the candidate sucks they won't come out in large numbers for that sucky candidate, even ifsaid candidate is black.
In the case of President Obama he was obviously not a sucky candidate, he was a viable candidate with obviousintelligence and patience. His rise to prominence was through his own hard work and his temperament made him ideal as the first American of mixed European/African heritage to withstand the 24/7/365 onslaught of racist hatred that has be-fallen him since he became president, heis not perfect and with out mistakes, but he has comported himself with grace under fire and accomplished significant victories despite the never ending obstructionism from the extremist right wing of the Republican Party, he is so to speakthe Jackie Robinson of Presidential politics.
And the majority of the black electorate understood this and gave him his well deserved support, which btw would not have been enough to win him the presidency; he also had significant support from many moderate Republicans, Independents, Conservatives, Women, Latinos ..... etc..... etc...
Petey Coober, regarding comment:
He hasn't? ..... really Petey?
Let's see now..... when President Obama inherited the train wreck economy that Buffoon Bush left behind we were losing 750,000 jobs per month.
Last I check we were no longer losing 750.000 jobs per month.
I know I'm going out on the limb here Petey but I believe that is a helpful improvement.
No.
?
Do you think it is directly related to Johnson's plan when he said he would have those N-ggers voting democrat for the next two hundred years?
Dean Moriarty,regarding question:
No.