Home Blogs The Proverbial Skeptic "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger." Really?
I've been enjoying reading several of the refutations from this Blog: The Proverbial Skeptic, particularly the articles from this student/writer - Nicholas Clairmont.
As for the Blog, here's their premise statement:
" The Proverbial Skeptic is a blog about sayings, quotes, aphorisms, quips and nuggets of supposed wisdom. Here we will examine and out anything well said but either untrue, half-true, deceitful, wrong, or plain stupid. "
Well, of course, anything that is "untrue, half-true, deceitful, wrong or stupid," is subject to interpretation and opinion - to which this guy does a pretty darn good job with dissenting opinions .
So, let's get started looking at this Nietzsche aphorism (that might 'not' embody that much 'truth' after all) from Nicholas's point-of-view..
" That which does not kill us makes us stronger."
Nietzsche, history's greatest angsty teenage boy, bl ithely asserted this whopper of an untruth in his 1888 book Twilight of the Idols .
My first thought in response to the quote is simply: "No it doesn't," or "Tell that to a tetraplegic."
Well, I really gotta agree with his logic there!
Just one more highlight I'd like to focus on right here:
"
All we need to do to know that what doesn't kill us makes us stronger is to look around.
Nietzsche's struggle with Syphilis at the end of his life did not make him stronger. It weakened his body and mind, to the degree that his work was later able to be twisted into Nazi propaganda (while I find Nietzsche to be a childish philosopher and possessed of a silly and repulsive worldview, I must note that this really was twisting. I deny his complicity in the crimes of the Nazis).
While the attitude of resilience of nice, dealing with everything as though it makes you stronger if it doesn't kill you is simply unrealistic. In other words, believing Nietzsche's advice might involve some unintentionally ironic foreshadowing. It might actually get you killed.
Getting old or injured or defeated is painful and difficult and weakening and embarrassing. Everybody goes through this. No matter your attitude, something is going to knock you down from which you won't fully recover. "
http://bigthink.com/the-proverbial-skeptic/what-doesnt-kill-you-makes-you-stronger-really
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I don't know about "if it doesn't kill you it will make you stronger", but I've found once you've experience something personally, you'll never be the same. It you are hurt really bad, you will not be hurt as easily again. If someone cons you, then you will not be so easily conned next time. If you've been hurt sometimes you heart or feelings are less sensitive than before. I don't know if this has anything to do with what you're talking about. I'm only 4 foot 6 and you were talking 5 ft. LOL
Taken in a physical context, yes it might get you killed. Taken in a spiritual or what have you context, it could make you stronger. Quotes are fun, but they need to be taken in the context of the writing and what was happening to the author to cause that writing.
LOL! Thank you for commenting, Six! I was on the verge of being six feet under!
I agree with those examples you gave. Our mistakes often do make us a little wiser, don't they. We're less vulnerable in some ways. I think he was pointing out the invincible attitude that is often expected for men and women to have, and that if we are 'ruthless', so to speak, that we're supposed to assume we'll be all the better for it, or something (my interpretation of his words):
...Or something like that...
(just to note, I had fun putting this short article together...plus, I might not fully understand Nietzsche - I have read some of him before - but his attitudes on morality left me feeling a bit the same as this author...so it was kinda fun poking at the guy.)
Thank you for commenting. You weren't showing before. I understand what you mean with context of the author as meaningful. Personally, I think I'd nutshell it with this statement of his:
My objection to this saying is about its relationship with conventional masculine idolatry.
If it doesn't kill you the point is moot, because the only thing left is to get strong. Survival of the fittest.
I think one of the problems with this saying is that its a generalization.
In some cases its true, in others cases its not.
PS IMO generalizations are one of the major causes of much of the inaccuracies, and occasionally false and misleading comments, in Internet discussion forums. Often its not done intentionally). I think generally speaking, most people have a tendency to-overgeneralize-- and this media (the 'net) tends to exacerbate that.
..Yes, as long as they still can get better.
Thanks for stopping, OM!
Oh, I very much agree.. Context is everything! I remember when I first started on the vine, feeling frustrated with all of the vague and ambiguous titles, then soon realized they were doing it on purpose. I always thought it caused more fights than discussions.
Doing something that caused fights-- and doing it on purpose?
I am shocked-- shocked I tell you!
(Apologies for the sarcasm-- but that one was hard to resist!)
I've come to believe that unfortunately there are a few individuals whose sole purpose for going online is to start fights.(But they shall remain nameless. Pariahs and outcasts in this world of so-called virtual reality. Condemned to wander cyberspace for all eternity-- unwanted and unloved!).
LOL! ..And the video, too (collects his winnings while in shock! hahaha)
Your sarcasm was funny and taken in the manner intended.
Yes, it seems there are those that get their kicks stirring it up on these sites. They were probably the bullies in school, too!
Actually that raises an interesting question. Something I've wondered about since my early days on the 'net.
Are these trolls all just bullies--really nasty people-- who are that way online and off? Or are many of them really pretty decent folks-- who become nasty online due to the nature of this media?
That's a good point, Krishna. I could picture some of both, just speculating, of course.
I can picture the type that's inferior, beating people up, so to speak, just because they can (due to the nature of this media, as you say), and maybe they get aggressive in-person too; then I picture the egocentric type that can't stand anyone that thinks differently than they do, and argues with anyone in-person or not; and third, the decent folks that are nice in-person (because they don't want a physical fight), but are happy to have a medium like this where they can let out their frustrations with the 'system' - without getting beat up! lol
I think all the possible reasons you mentioned are true.
This one is interesting to me:
IMO the need to be "right" is very strong in most people (even offline). But its definitely a major factor online:
[From xkcd]
LOL!
(Unless you're a moderator who has to constantly deal with the effect this has-- than it becomes not so "lol")
What Friedrich Nietzsche actually wrote is, ''From life's school of war: what does not kill me makes me stronger.'' The phrase comes from Nietzsche's highly influential Twilight of the Idols, which he intended as an introduction to his work. It has been paraphrased and revised many times in popular culture. Political conservative luminary G. Gordon Liddy changed it to be 'What doesn't kill us, makes us stronger."
I so agree. I don't know, but I think it's because many of us will try to hold our own if we think our intelligence or intellect is being challenged.
Not me, of course, I 'know' I'm smart and what my discussion partner says doesn't matter! ./s ..just joking!!
(I 'know' they are smarter than I am -- that's why I have to try so hard!!)
Funny cartoon, and yes, not much fun for a Mod battling those egos!
Yes, it has! Up until now, I had never challenged the notion. Why? Because I was only putting the phrase into my own style of experiencing the world, and using my own sensibilities.
Once I started thinking about the numerous others I'm aware of and how they live their lives - and to a large degree, Nietzsche himself (a bit of an anarchist and against societal traditional moral view, imo), I started realizing that what doesn't kill us, depending on context, does make us weaker (breaking our spirit) or sick because we aren't 'invincible'! He didn't have much respect for woman, as I gather from reading in the past, so mainly used them for sex---and look at what ironically happened....he didn't get "stronger."
Here's a statement I noticed that pretty much sums up my general impression of Nietzsche's societal/political view:
There is some truth to the statement, but it's incomplete. It should be: " Many times, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger ." Only an idiot would regard the truncated version of that statement as an absolute.
One of the best books I have read over the last year was Antifragile: Things That Gain From Disorder , by Nassim Nicholas Taleb. It deals in depth with theconcepts of hormesis andiatrogenics, andhow these concepts exist alsoin nature, culture, politics, society, etc. Basically, this book is a digest of examples of the types of corrosive things that don't not only don't kill their host, but end up making them more robust. Of the 100+ books I've read over the last 12 months, this is the one I would suggest the most.
Thank you for linking Colin Wilson, John. Interesting concept, the "waking sleep." I hadn't thought of life quite like that before, but I see the relevance. We (I, anyway) tend to go through our routines, habits and usually the outcomes are nearly the same, with a few differences here and there, but nothing to disruptive or 'earth-shaking' happens, so we kinda 'stay asleep.' It's when happenstance occurs and there's a disruption in that routine (physical, mental or whatever) that wakes us up - and are we ever appreciative and 'stronger' in a sense when we get back to 'normal' for us!! Yes, I would call it a psychological effect, too. We're appreciative, less vulnerable to some of life's road bumps - those that we can affect - and so happy to be back! lol
LOL, true.. Conceptual context matters. Thank you for the information on that book. I would probably enjoy it, too. Beyond resilient - but to gain from stress - instead of being knocked down by it, is an interesting concept to me.
True story.
Wow, strong and clean at the same time.
Ahhh... saved by the [Six] bell again!!
Thank you!
That is the cutest commercial.
That's all we really need in life.... a better mousetrap. We are descendents of the Three Blind Mice, yes?!!! (rhetorical
..Always falling for the Big Cheese..
Gunny, ...Hmmm... then let me go back and see if I can work something incriminating out of those words... to see if this "stronger" thing really works..
CL,
We could always use the shower thing for a TV commercial, "Bill's Acid Soap, you didn't die, so you're stronger and cleaner". Oh wait, you did die; forget the stronger part.
Hi TTGA!
You might be onto something with that. We should work on it. Hmmm, "stronger" might still work.. odor - with time.
I always us "Fast Orange" to shower with. It makes my skin new and smooth again.
lol.. Saves on water, and removes your skin...
Gotta love those acid based cleansers.
Thanks for the step-up, TTGA! Muchas gracias...! (I don't know Spanish..that's about the extent of it--lol)
You can drink it too...... but only once.
LOL... Thanx, Six!