Maybe some of you guys can help me understand... ladies can chime in too

Hmmmm, difficult position MsA...This is what it sounds like to me. He is insecure in himself, and is projecting onto you. That you cannot stop.

You cannot have a good relationship if you are not happy with yourself, and that means if you want to wear a bit of make-up, or different clothes, that is what makes you happy. If you are happy than that happyness will engulf him as well.

He can choose to accept it or not, only he can decide that. You, can only do your best and address it directly with him, no punches pulled.

Not to make mischief, but it sounds as though your husband may have the problem not yourself. Guys take at any rate.

I'll second that.

You keep doing what you're doing, but when he gives you lip, just remind him that he's the only guy for you. Give him a little peck on the cheek, and keep on smiling, knowing that it's not you that's got to get used to this.

Ms A...

Imagine how my hubby could feel? I am pretty sure that more than half the site are men, and that I am friends with many of them.... He knows me and trusts me. And I can say this one auto body girl to another!

And I didn't propose to him, either.

Yes we all horse around here a bit, but that is healthy and fun. And looking nice, well that is as much for him as it is for you. If you feel good, you will feel good for him.

Finally, age is a state of mind. I am much older than you.. and but I don't think of myself that way... most of the time. Do what ever it is to make yourself feel good. You will find that you share that good feeling all around.

And I didn't propose to him, either.

Yes we all horse around here a bit, but that is healthy and fun. And looking nice, well that is as much for him as it is for you. If you feel good, you will feel good for him.

Finally, age is a state of mind. I am much older than you.. and but I don't think of myself that way... most of the time. Do what ever it is to make yourself feel good. You will find that you share that good feeling all around.

Every woman deserves some makeup if they want it, and some pretty clothes. You're trying to look better for yourself! Everyone does this-- and you're not dead yet, for Pete's sake!

I have no advice to offer, but I do offer my friendship. I think the guys have some good advice to give, because I'd have a tendency to thump him over the head with a baseball bat. Which is NOT advisable. Some guys are just insecure and jealous. If he can't conquer this, or manage to feel 'safe' with you-- then while it is HIS problem, it becomes your problem because you love him. I know you don't want to do anything that would upset him-- but this is silly. I'm no help and I'm so sorry.

So, dear friend, if you ever need to talk, I will keep my mouth shut, and be supportive of you, in any way I can. I love you-- and I'm only a phone call away. I love you very much. I know that you are a very pretty woman, and all of us go through this. SIGH!

Just play this song for him.

I really do try to nurture his ego.

I know he's insecure. And when have you ever known me to pull punches?

No mischief. I know it's his issue.

I don't feel old and crappy all the time either. I hardly ever wear makeup. Maybe 2-4 times a month, but because 2-4 times a month is an increase over the past several years, he gets it in his head that I'm trying to look good for someone else.

I could just tell him, "You know... There's this super cute guy, looks a little like Hugh Laurie..."

I tell him all the time that he looks like Hugh Laurie, so that may work.

Sense of humor I never lack... Unless I'm just being a moody woman.

Love you too sweetems!

I do likes me some Beatles.

I'm not much for country music, but Shania is one that is alright in my book. And yes... I totally get why men dig her. She's hot!

Sometimes when us men get down on the dumps and get all down on ourselves, we start wondering - how could this beautiful (you are, you know), smart and intelligent (you are taking college classes to better yourself and get ahead) woman possibly love me? There it is, the big, huge question: How could she love me when she is so strong, meeting other bright guys and professors in class and having great friends on the web? Why me, what is there to love? That little thought can be so very damaging.

We have all seen guys do it, and women, too. I have no answers, I wish I did.

Philosophically, your husband should appreciate the time he spends with you. The majority of people do not understand that they are fortunate in life in regards to the fact that they are not alone save for those that choose it. Being jealous is a very childish response towards one's partner and is not adult behavior. Once again, this is my purely philosophical view.

Grump. You hit the nail on the head my dear. He's always saying, "I don't know what you see, but I'm glad you do." Or when I tell him that I love him, sometimes he'll say, "Lord knows why, but I'm so glad and feel lucky that you do."

I don't mind the brutally honest answers. I encourage them.

How about, I don't care if others judge my appearance. I only worry about what I think. The only reason I put makeup on EVER is because I want to feel better about me. I don't give two shits what anyone else thinks. I want me to be happy with me.

I think part of the issue is that I am mostly tomboy and that is who most know and see. It's an oddity for others to see me want to be pretty/girly, but I'm finding that as I get older and see more of the aging process, I want to do something to myself so I don't feel quite as old (which yes I realize I'm younger than most here and I'm nearly 9yrs younger than my husband).

It is absolutely childish. That's not the only childish thing he does. All of us have our childish tantrums sometimes.

Miss Aubrey
I don't know how long you've been married or how old you actually are. I DO know there are five basic elements to any healthy relationship. I call them TRUCC or truck. Trust, Respect, Understanding, Communication and Commitment.

I hate that:
1) He would even think I would do that to him.
I tend to agree with what has been spoken about 'insecurity'. But jealousy is also a symptom of lack of trust that may also play into his insecurities. This most certainly can result from past baggage and past relationships. If there is a feeling of absolute trust, and confidence in your relationship and mutual fidelity...then there is no room for jealousy in this picture.

2) I cannot feel good about myself without being questioned.
I'm speculating that there may be a 'gap' in your communication as well. Some times both men and women in relationship will 'tease' the other about how they look or who they might be trying to 'impress'. This can indicate insecurities founded or not. The 'teasing' can be an attempt to cut the other down to their perceived level. It can be a defense mechanism.

3) I feel old and frumpy the past few years.
Your husband may having similar feelings which may be fueling his insecurities about you and your relationship.

Make a time when the two of you can sit down together in a non threatening manner and have a very caring and frank conversation. You will probably have to 'lead' this conversation by setting this up and initiating the conversation. I would suggest you begin by speaking honestly about how you have been feeling about aging. How it makes YOU feel, and how you want to look and feel attractive for yourself and for him! Explain how much you care about him and how much you'd like to please him (as I believe he wants to please YOU). Reassure and reaffirm your feelings for him and explain to him how it makes you feel when he expresses his suspicions or put downs. Let him know in a sincere caring manner that this is not healthy for you OR your relationship. Ask him what he would like from you...what he needs, and listen. Then explain to him what YOU would like and need from him as your husband and partner.

Make time to nurture each other AND your relationship. Ask him to explain what that means for him and then explain what that means for YOU. Most importantly...speak from the heart. Avoid "you are"...accusatory statements. Avoid put downs. Hopefully you can be 'real' without being angry or condescending. Speak about each of your needs, where you two are going as a couple, and what that future together looks like. Don't be afraid to be and express your vulnerabilities and insecurities about growing older. This will open the door for the same. Figure out how you can better support each other with tangible and objective goals. Most important...STAY IN TOUCH WITH EACH OTHER and stay connected on an "intimate" level. Keep in mind, and be open to the fact that "intimacy" can take different forms and may mean something entirely different to him then to you. Pay attention to each other. Be honest, speak from the heart with love, caring and concern...be real and keep it real.

Tuck the angry resentful emotions away and be willing to explore and get curious in a sincere effort to find understanding and resolution. Then follow through...keep the door of communication OPEN. Make time for each other. Periodically, we ALL have to revisit our wants and needs as we grow in our relationship together. Things change...WE change. This is the natural result of growing and changing and staying abreast of those changes.

Wishing you and hubby ALL the BEST Miss Aubrey...!!!

"Sing me the song that's in my heart, when I have forgotten the words"

I just stumbled on to this and first instinct is that while you are secure, and comfortable,in your knowledge of just who you are, he sounds very insecure and nourishes that insecurity by abusing you. All abuse is not physical and the mental abuse is just as hurtful! Sad!!

May I ask how long you've been married? Is this his first marriage? If he's been married before or had a long time significant other and she cheated, emotionally or physically, you may be paying for the sins of another. I was 17 when I first met my to-be-husband. I was in my last year of high school, he was in his second year in college. He was extremely jealous. I began working two weeks out of high school with attorneys (NLRB for two years, then went to private international law firm). His jealousy was horrid. Then he swore if we got married, he would have no need for jealousy. Sounded good. I married him at 19. It didn't stop. I hated calling him to tell him I was going to work overtime. I loved him, but hated the trait. Finally had to leave.

Can you leave him notes? I leave my honey goofy stuff ... some of mine:

"I remember the very first time I laid eyes on you ... my heart said 'oh, there you are.'"

I love you as much as a back alley whore loves crack. (he liked that one!)

You're such a pain in the ass, but I love you anyway. Can we have sex now?
- from a Valentine's Day card.

I still get soooo excited driving home! Yippee!

You still tickle my tummy cuz yer so yummy...

Crap like that. Of course, I make much naughtier ones, but I'll let you figure those out for yourself.

So, that being said, given enough time he'll start rollin' his eyes every time he gets one. You just gotta make them mostly funny. And not overdo it. Leave them in weird places. You don't have to do it often. I took a mirror shot of me in my lace bra and panties with sunglasses on and a pair of his black socks on.

I should have tried such stuff on my ex-husband. I was just so young and so tired of his insinuations and accusations. Maybe if I could have teased him out of it, it might have worked. My current hun doesn't really have a jealous bone in his body (of course, he knew the hell I went thru with my ex), but he knows he's mine and mine alone. And it's been over 20 years. He's even stopped breaking up with me because I won't get married. That was in the first five years or so. I didn't see a need for it unless I wanted children.

Good luck. You just gotta start jumping on him and making out like a teenager when he least expects it. The element of surprise has always worked well for us ladies. I don't know how good a serious talk with him would be. I talked til I was blue in the face with my ex.

I was just going to say I wasn't sure I could propose to anyone, but I just did two days ago at the "other place." I wanted to marry him for his brilliant comment.

Miss Aubrey...

One parting comment...

"Speak about each of your needs, where you two are going as a couple, and what that future together looks like. Periodically, we ALL have to revisit our wants and needs as we grow in our relationship together. Things change...WE change. This is the natural result of growing and changing and staying abreast of those changes."

This comment relates to "Commitment". I've discovered that 'commitment' means more then just staying and LIVING together, 'co-habituating' under the same roof. "Commitment" means you are EACH committed to do what ever it takes to serve each others best interests.

Initially when you two came together as individuals and formed a mutual bond as a couple in a committed relationship, undoubtedly you each agreed to accept each other for who you were at the time, and came together and formed a 'shared' vision of where you wanted to go as a couple that met your needs as individuals.

I envision "Commitment" like the 'vessel' that contains the relationship. The 'shared' vision that we create together, is like a pair of shoes. Over time...we grow into that shared vision as we make it reality. There comes a point where we out grow that shared vision (or pair of shoes)) and those shoes become too small and they begin to 'pinch' and hurt. This emotional pain and angst is an indicator that you have grown into your shared vision and it's time to revisit your commitment based on the changes in your life and those personal changes (and resulting changing needs) that have subtly occurred over the years together.

This should be considered a totally natural and expected occurrence. This happens consciously or unconsciously in every committed relationship over time. The discomfort that you each feel is an emotional indicator that it's "TIME" to get back in touch on in intimate level and express those changes, your changing needs, yearnings, desires and feelings. It's "TIME" to redefine your 'shared vision' for the present and the future that reflects your changing needs and priorities. I would speculate that you have both grown into the vision you once shared. It's now "TIME" to recreate the vessel that defines your commitment and your shared path together. It's "TIME" to reconnect and renew. Maintaining and nurturing your relationship is an ONGOING and reoccurring process given the fact that 'change' is the ONLY constant in our world.

I am assuming you each chose a good partner. We all have our baggage. We all have our strengths and short comings. This is a given. I don't believe this is a "good guy/bad guy" issue where 'fault' and 'blame' need to be laid. Avoid the temptation to go there. Holding this attitude will only create emotional walls, resentment and form barriers to gaining understanding, cooperation and finding resolution and creating a peaceful home and life together.

The elements of TRUCC are core. The reason I know this is because if any ONE element is missing...the other elements become undermined and begin to erode and the relationship will crumble and come down like a house of cards. This morning in hindsight, I felt the need to better explain the meaning of "Commitment". I hope the picture I have tried to paint better defines the concept I am trying to convey.

TL

This is considered a form of domestic abuse. Bad news, I know, but better to know it then get sucked further in. Whenever you find yourself feeling as if you have to alter your behavior or choices to keep him from becoming angry -- walking on eggshells -- you are being abused.

This is from the Mayo Clinic. I'm using their list without editing even though you have not mentioned most of them. I'm doing that so others who may be in an abusive situation might learn something too.

mayoclinic

While some relationships are clearly abusive from the outset, abuse often starts subtly and gets worse over time. You might be experiencing domestic violence if you're in a relationship with someone who:

• Calls you names, insults you or puts you down
• Prevents you from going to work or school
• Stops you from seeing family members or friends
• Tries to control how you spend money, where you go, what medicines you take or what you wear
• Acts jealous or possessive or constantly accuses you of being unfaithful
• Gets angry when drinking alcohol or using drugs
• Threatens you with violence or a weapon
• Hits, kicks, shoves, slaps, chokes or otherwise hurts you, your children or your pets
• Forces you to have sex or engage in sexual acts against your will
• Blames you for his or her violent behavior or tells you that you deserve it
• Portrays the violence as mutual and consensual

It just breaks my heart to see such unnecessary unhappiness. I hate to say this but, he is a control freak, and you deserve better. No matter what you do, it will never be enough. Life is too short and just too tough to face this day in and day out for you are wearing yourself out trying to meet his constantly shifting demands.

To answer questions posed by a few of you:

This is not either of our first marriages. Neither he nor I have ever been cheated on. He cheated on a fiancee with me. No, I did not know he was engaged at the time.

I have been severely mentally and verbally abused before... By my ex. This is whole-heartedly his insecurity due to his age (nearly 9 yrs my senior) and that he thinks that he doesn't deserve me. He thinks that I'm too pretty for him and that I'm too good to him.

We have been married for 4.5 yrs but have known each other much longer. Other than his not telling me about his fiancee right away, we have NEVER kept anything from each other. We always discuss what's on our minds. Communication has never been an issue.

He sees what all of us discuss here. He knows the type of friendships I have developed here. He doesn't understand it, but he has seen it.

He thinks that I'm too pretty for him and that I'm too good to him.

Hell tell him you are, on all counts, but you recognize a keeper even if he doesn't!

I don't get the idea that your current hubby is abusive, but if left untended it could turn into something bothersome. And I'm like a man in the sense that if someone says to me "we have to talk", I immediately begin the dread the inevitable. I am definitely not an "we need to talk" person. If something bothers me that my mate does, I address it immediately. I'm neither a shrinking violet nor a "silent treatment" giver. I hate people that say, "if you don't know, I'm certainly not going to tell you." The most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. My honey says "why can't I get the silent treatment!"

I really think talking doesn't do much. With my ex, I pleaded, cajoled, begged, cried, wrote letters ... all for naught. I suggested counseling early on, but he wouldn't hear of it. So I left. I left him everything, I even took bills we amassed together. I made the last two payments on his motorcycle. Because shortly after I left, he was the begger, crier, cajoler. Then, and only then, did he suggest counseling. It was a matter of too little too late. Very sad story ultimately, but too long to go into here.

Notes, "Love" teasing. Make out sessions when you get home from work. Nothing crazy, just a couple of deep kisses. To wake him, whisper you love him. Let him know without beating your head over it. If he doesn't get it after six months of special attention, then it may be time to discuss counseling.

For what ts worth,...I've found it starange and some times funny how couples change or even get use to each other. For instance when a couple is first together they have more inhabitions, like when he goes to the bathroom. He sits on the toilet and then turns on the water, turns on the shower just so his mate can not hear him going to the toilet,..but then as time goes on say twenty years he goes to the bathroom and sits on the toilet with the door wide open, and may even yell, Honey come here quickly, and bring the video camera.

When we are young I know most men would rather buy new underwear than let his new bride see or even wash his dirty underwear,...twenty years later,...he just throws them in the laungry only to hear her yell in discust,..what the hell did you do, hit a deer.....

such is the married life.....with all of its ups and downs......

I don't get the idea that your current hubby is abusive,

Sorry but as a man, the last time I checked, his insecurity, and lack of trust, is childish and borders uponmental abuse, in my book. Successful marriages, or relationships, must be based upon complete faith and trust in your partner.Anything less is a recipe for disaster.

Aw, one hates to think that, tsula. Ms. A didn't give me that impression, it was more of a "I can't figure out what's wrong." Trust me, when it borders on abuse, you don't have that "I can't figure out what's wrong" attitude. It's more of a "omiGod, I can't take a minute more of this" attitude.

Men! You can't live with 'em and you can't stab them 85 times.

I hope you know I'm kidding about that 85 times thingie.

Yer smiley faces are cracking me up!

No, my impression was that Ms A has reached a point where no matter what she says or does it doesn't seem to be enough. She is looking for suggestions on just how to cope with what I consider an impossible situation. While the Bride & I have had words over the years nothing ever approached the situation where neither of us didn't have a rock solid trust in one another. I probably based on that history should not even be offering my thoughts but I get the feeling that no matter what she does at this point it will not be enough. The man needs to grow up before he loses probably the best thing in his life!

Oh, and having been stabbed a few times over the years, the 85 thingy is not a mark, sorry bad choice of words, I would be aiming for.

I have to agree with Tsula here. It isn't her responsibility to cajole him out of abusing her -- and that is what he is doing.

If she feels able, she should confront him with how his words and actions makes her feel. If that doesn't change his behavior, then nothing will. He either cares about how she feels or he doesn't.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt, that might be what he needs because he doesn't realize the bad habits he's fallen into. But if it isn't, then she has to decide how far she's going to let him go before it's too much to bear.

I have never ever known a man to be shy about walking around naked. Ever. You know, it takes months to get to the "waking up together", and while I'm scrambling to put the sheet around me, he's walkin' around proud as a peacock ... teehee ... I said "pee" and ... oh nevermind.

Oh, and having been stabbed a few times over the years, the 85 thingy is not a mark, sorry bad choice of words, I would be aiming for

Oh, I know, and please accept my apologies. Very poor taste, but I remember hearing it and it just tickled me. In my very little sanitary charmed life-bubble, and when I'm around friends, I am sometimes insensitive. You know how sometimes you say something you think is terribly funny and it really isn't and it's too late because it left your mouth already so you're half-punishing yourself before the sentence finishes? No, you probably don't. You're very sensitive and have impeccable manners. As so most do here. You will probably find me apologizing several times over. I get to having fun, I get around my friends, and I sometimes throw caution to the wind.

I hope you can forgive my insensitivity. Am awfully glad you're still with us! Considering all you've been through.

There is no apology needed here, my dear!! I am what I am and have fun with that myself so why should I deny a friend the same freedom. I wasn't even thinking about that to be truthful. My first thoughts were about comparing 85 cuts to death by a thousand cuts. An old torture and figuring man I bet that smarts. Just keep on having fun is the order of the day.

Maybe that's our problem LR... We've never been shy or hidden anything from each other right from the start.

OMG! Your ex and my ex sound one in the same!

You would also be correct in saying that my husband is not abusive in any way. He is simply insecure. Other than his mother, no one told him he was handsome, that he is a good man, that he deserves love, and that he has a kind heart and soul.

And I think we both have let the little things slide due to comfort. Both of us used to do little love notes and whatnot. We have let life get in the way I think.