Liber8 BB-8!
Liber8 BB-8!
original article -- by Paul Krugman -- NY Times
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A few months ago I was on a panel at ComicCon — hey, who knew CES utility functions would lead me down this road? — discussing Trekonomics. Manu Saadia has a fun book on the subject, focusing on the transformative powers of replicators that make anything you want, but as we discussed, what about services? My on-the-fly take was that there was a conceptual problem: if we made machines smart enough to provide all our services, wouldn’t those machines effectively be people, deserving freedom from servitude?
Well, I found myself thinking about that while watching The Force Awakens the second time — sorry, I’m too old not to indulge my inner nerd. And it seems to me that our discussion its quite relevant. Think about the droids: they’re obviously sentient, are depicted as having emotions, form friendships. They are, in effect, people. Yet they’re treated as indentured servants at best, even by the good guys: Poe is referred to as BB-8’s “master”. If the movie had put a flesh-and-blood creature in that kind of position, the unacceptable connotations would be obvious. So what’s with the assumption of organic privilege?
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Do droids have souls? Would you accept a droid in your church congregation?
This is where the notion of life force comes in handy. Droids don't have it, and likely never will.
Imagine the day when humans are able to build a human from scratch, molecule by molecule, from the inside out, until it resembles a human 100%. It is a slab of meat on the table. How do we get it to suddenly become alive, and what memories would it have once it did?
@hal-a-lujah :
How do we get it to suddenly become alive, and what memories would it have once it did?
Hey, that would be easy Hal. They would just throw a chip in there which would include a memory bank of all the things that didn't happen before it got off the table, kind of like they do today for humans.
Joking aside... How many prosthetic limbs / organs can a person have before being considered a machine?
Actually, this is an important subject. What responsibility do humans take upon themselves as creators? Do we yet even have the moral fortitude to create beings that feel pain or are capable of making their own choices? Are we really ready yet to take on the mantle of a deity/creator?
That was the whole concept to Blade Runner/Do Androids Dream Electric Sheep. What defines life?
Thinking about "the humanity of androids" is a useful tool for thinking about "personhood".
If Bb-8 is not a person... then... why?
Well for one thing, he has an on/off switch and for another we are not sure he has free will.
Perrie, technically we also have an on/off switch (though it can only be used once), and have debated since forever if we have free will.
People not only have free will, there is no possible circumstance or scenario where they wouldn't.
You are strapped into the death chamber gurney, and in two seconds you will be injected with chemicals that will kill you instantly. You are free to the end, to think about this development in any way you wish.
Free will is not results, it is thoughts and attitudes.
On the topic, machines cannot have human free will, but I suppose they could have a "free will" that pertains to mechanical thinking.
The ability to be turned on and off multiple times is a big deal, as it makes it not it's own being, but rather someone else's. I do believe in free will. Obviously there are other factors that can remove our freewill from us. Also personality separates us from machines. It wouldn't in the case of a biogenic being.
Loss or alteration of consciousness is the only thing I can think of that would remove free will, and it that case it would not be gone, but masked.
The ability to be turned on and off multiple times is a big deal, as it makes it not it's own being, but rather someone else's.
Yes, it is... but why? If we dig a bit, I think we will find that it is another way of saying that the power of life and death is a big deal. If we removed BB-8's on/off switch so it is "on" full time... how is the nature of the "person" changed?
I like questions like this. They give us a different perspective..
BB-8 "doesn’t have free will" in the same sense that chattel slaves do not have free will: by the choice of the "master". In either case, the master could manumit.
Slaves do have free will. Those that chose to run proved that. Again, personality plays into that.. those who chose to server and those who chose possible death over serving.
I'm really enjoying this discussion, but need to think in order to make a semi-intelligent comment.
I'm thinking of the movie Artificial Intelligence. It seemed that those robots were sentient beings... Or maybe not. I haven't seen the movie in a while, so can't remember it that well.
need to think in order to make a semi-intelligent comment.
Nah!
This is NT, after all...