COMING TO AMERICA

COMING TO AMERICA
By:   magnoliaave
Created:   3 weeks ago
Comments:   57

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Immigrants...Our Country was built on the backbone of immigrants.  From all over the world they came to be part of a success story. They wanted to be free and poverty in their countries sent them here.   There were Irish, French, English, Polish, Italian, German. Jews and they all found their little niches. Then, we went on to Puerto Ricans, Mexicans. Asians, etc. 

The only ones IMO who got the shaft were the African Americans who didn't ask to come here.  They were kidnapped, thrown in hulls in ships and transported to all parts unknown. Their own people did this.  Then, they were sold like animals.  The darkest times. We can never make amends.   It is up to them.. But. I would imagine they are happy to live here considering their options.

The American Indian had it tough.  It was their land and they fought for it.  They lost.  Treaties are out there which have not been honored.

And, speaking of immigrants.  I am very torn on this one,  For the life of me, I cannot fathom returning  a mother and child back to Honduras or sending all of these young people back to Mexico. There has to be a better answer.

Coming to America....the  hopes and dreams of so many.

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magnoliaave
1  magnoliaave    3 weeks ago

My fulfilled family's dreams.

 
 
Dismayed Patriot
1.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  magnoliaave @1    2 weeks ago

"For the life of me, I cannot fathom returning  a mother and child back to Honduras or sending all of these young people back to Mexico. There has to be a better answer."

On this we agree.

Personally I believe a combination of being global leaders setting the agenda in these countries that need and want our consumers so badly, we work to make sure the countries the majority of undocumented immigrants are coming from reform, create real safety for their citizens as well as opening up job opportunities. If these countries were to embrace real reform and we stopped cooperating with countries who continue to skirt the rules and oppress their citizens, maybe they won't be so anxious to leave their home countries. But when such huge disparities exist between safety, living conditions and job opportunities there's no wonder we have so many families trying desperately to get across our borders.

If we spent one half of what Trump wants to spend on the wall assisting the Mexican military and police to combat the cartels in their own country we would reduce the numbers of illegal border crossing by far more than a boondoggle wall could ever block. Not many people want to go through tremendous hardship risking being assaulted or even killed trying to cross our borders if they didn't feel they had to in order to escape something worse.

 
 
Peter Loves the Real Tea Party.
2  Peter Loves the Real Tea Party.    3 weeks ago

African Americans aren't the only people forcibly brought to America as slaves or indentured workers/servants, but that aside, I like the message in this article.

 
 
pat wilson
2.1  pat wilson  replied to  Peter Loves the Real Tea Party. @2    3 weeks ago

What is the message ?

 
 
magnoliaave
3  magnoliaave    3 weeks ago

My family were indentured from England for ten years.

 
 
Kathleen/Butterfie
4  Kathleen/Butterfie    3 weeks ago

It's such a shame the way people treat each other.

My grandfather on my fathers side was born in Germany.  

Yes, we have a lot of people from all over the world here.

 
 
Snuffy
5  Snuffy    3 weeks ago

America was built by immigrants,  but it is not large enough to take in all 7.5 billion people in the world so there must be some sort of limitations around it.  We just cannot take in everybody who wants to move here. IMO I think the current annual limit of 1 million is too high and should be reduced.

 
 
magnoliaave
5.1  magnoliaave  replied to  Snuffy @5    3 weeks ago

I agree, but for the life of me, I can't look at their faces.

 
 
XDm9mm
5.2  XDm9mm  replied to  Snuffy @5    3 weeks ago

We should do what England just did....  they cut their immigration from 200,000 to 100,000.   they're suffering their immigrant problems too, and they have no where near the numbers of immigrants nor illegal immigrants.

We should lower the number to 500,000 and as Trump notes, make it merit based.   Just because you have a third cousin twice removed on your wifes second cousins side as a citizen reference does not qualify you entry.   If they're unable to make entry and provide and sustain themselves they have no need to come.

I know that's considered cruel, but I'm more concerned with the kids that live here and were born here to American citizen parents than I am to those that want to come from China, England, Germany, Mexico or any other country.  At some point, we need to take care of our own BEFORE we worry about taking care of others.  And if we're needed, we can help take care of them IN THEIR HOME COUNTRIES.....  with the assistance of other countries.

 
 
BeastOfTheEast
5.3  BeastOfTheEast  replied to  Snuffy @5    2 weeks ago

America was built by immigrants

Not by ILLEGAL immigrants

 
 
Larry Hampton
6  Larry Hampton    3 weeks ago

Thanks Magnoliaave; inspiring and thoughtful article.

My two cents are that sometimes the heart understands righteousness even when the mind can't quite grasp it. We do have to deal with immigration issues, and imho should be done so with wisdom, compassion and mercy as a guide; rather than, with political persuasion and fear.

:~)

 
 
XDm9mm
7  XDm9mm    3 weeks ago

Then lets deal with immigration.

Start with shutting the borders to ALL but LEGAL immigrants.

Those that came illegally, REGARDLESS where they came from send them back.  It's immaterial if they snuck across the border or over stayed a VISA.   Breaking the law does not give them the right to fail to do what others have done and are peacefully waiting their turn at entry.

A really simple means to have them self deport is to hold EMPLOYERS responsible for hiring them.  If illegals have no means of support and are legally denied any form of welfare other than medically necessary treatment to enable them to leave, they'll leave of their own accord.  

But holding employers culpable is paramount.  Make the fines for hiring illegals more than a nuisance cost of doing business fine as is the current practice.  Make if HURT financially.  First offense $5,000 per day per illegal worker.  Second offense, $10,000 per day per illegal worker, plus criminal charges for senior management with a $1 million fine, payable only by the criminal manager, and not an expense chargeable to the company for tax purposes.    Third offense, $25,000 per day per illegal worker plus criminal charges against all management aware of or involved with the employment of illegals.   Criminal charges shall be fines and prison time.

Doing the last items to employers will immediately cease virtually all illegal immigration.  If the people can't find work, they won't come.  

As to the claim they do the jobs Americans won't do, BULL$HIT.   It doesn't take a degree to work as housekeepers in hotels/motels.  It will put many unemployed American skilled tradespeople back to work in the construction industry.  For the agricultural industry, either raise the wages paid or LEGALLY bring seasonal workers in.  But doing so will mean the agricultural industry will need to fully comply with the law and provide housing, medical care, legal wages plus overtime, workers compensation to name a few.   In reality, if they do the math, it's likely cheaper to raise their pay and hire Americans.

 
 
magnoliaave
7.1  magnoliaave  replied to  XDm9mm @7    3 weeks ago

Totally agree on the employers.  And, it is a farce that Mexicans work at jobs we won't do.

 
 
Ozzwald
7.2  Ozzwald  replied to  XDm9mm @7    2 weeks ago
Start with shutting the borders to ALL but LEGAL immigrants.

How much are you willing to pay for that?  Give me a $ amount.

 
 
Ozzwald
7.2.1  Ozzwald  replied to  Ozzwald @7.2    2 weeks ago
How much are you willing to pay for that?  Give me a $ amount.

Wow,  XDm9mm.  You sure disappeared quickly.

 
 
loki12
7.2.2  loki12  replied to  Ozzwald @7.2.1    2 weeks ago

An exact dollar amount,  I would start with 34.5 billion this year and adjust from there.

Where did I come up with that you ask?

 
 
Ozzwald
7.2.3  Ozzwald  replied to  loki12 @7.2.2    2 weeks ago
I would start with 34.5 billion this year and adjust from there.

Was I talking to you?  Did I address the question to you?

And just for your info, change the billion to trillion and you'll start getting closer to the yearly budget needed for completely closing the border.

 
 
loki12
7.2.4  loki12  replied to  Ozzwald @7.2.3    2 weeks ago
change the billion to trillion and you'll start getting closer to the yearly budget needed for completely closing the border.

If this is supposed to be humor, don't quit your day job.   there annual budget currently is 13.5 billion, add 34.5 and..........

 
 
Ozzwald
7.2.5  Ozzwald  replied to  loki12 @7.2.4    2 weeks ago
If this is supposed to be humor, don't quit your day job.   there annual budget currently is 13.5 billion, add 34.5 and..........

You really should read the comments before imposing yourself into the conversation. 

We were talking about the cost for completely shutting down the border, to the degree that only legals are able to cross it.

 
 
loki12
7.2.6  loki12  replied to  Ozzwald @7.2.5    2 weeks ago

And did you say in one year?   No because I read the comments, i can't help it if you can't defend your position without bullshit statements, 34.5 billion a year increase the first year would more than triple their budget, they could put 20 billion for a wall and still double the number of people in the entire organization. that would effectively seal the border. add another 30 billion the next year to their 13.9 already allocated and it would seal tighter than a ducks ass.   but then the democrats would have to look for a new voter base to pander too for votes.

 
 
Ozzwald
7.2.7  Ozzwald  replied to  loki12 @7.2.6    2 weeks ago
And did you say in one year?   No because I read the comments, i can't help it if you can't defend your position without bullshit statements

Apparently you did not. 

We are talking a completely closed border, no unauthorized entry at all, period.  The only way to do that is having people stationed 24/7 along 2000 miles of border.  Enough people for every foot of border, to stop and apprehend multiple people trying to cross the border, without leaving that spot open for crossing during the chase down and apprehension.

He is not talking video surveillance, his comment said COMPLETELY securing the border so only legal crossing were allowed.  I don't give a crap what their budget is, we are talking what it would need to be to make his claim a reality.

 
 
loki12
7.2.8  loki12  replied to  Ozzwald @7.2.7    2 weeks ago

Yes we can close the border and no you don't need people every 20 feet, FFS, if you build a wall with embedded sensors you can have people there before they get over especially if you use GBR with video analytics, and no they are not going to carry a  40 foot ladder 100 miles across the desert.  you are wrong, but it is obvious that you have no experience in this field. I have secured airfields using electronic sensors with video analytics and there are US airman waiting long before they get to the "fence"  and it sure as fuk isn't 40 feet high. and at approximately 48 billion dollars it absolutely can be done. 

And the best part.  is Mexico actually pays for the 34.5 additional to the current 13.9.  Win Win

 
 
Ozzwald
7.2.9  Ozzwald  replied to  loki12 @7.2.8    2 weeks ago
if you build a wall with embedded sensors you can have people there before they get over

Yeah, cause walls have always worked 100% of the time...

image-3.jpg

 
 
loki12
7.2.10  loki12  replied to  Ozzwald @7.2.9    2 weeks ago

I love the hubris, just because you don’t have the skills it can’t be done. Sad and pathetic. That’s okay the smart people will design it and you can be amazed.

The wall was only a piece, a road bump if you will. It’s obvious you have no idea how the other technology works.

 
 
Ozzwald
7.2.11  Ozzwald  replied to  loki12 @7.2.10    2 weeks ago
The wall was only a piece, a road bump if you will. It’s obvious you have no idea how the other technology works.

Moving the goalposts?  Trump wants his wall built, that's it.  Just a wall, and it takes someone truly ignorant about technology to think it is the answer to this.  Technology will not close the border, it will help enforce immigration enforcement BUT IT WILL NOT STOP ALL ILLEGAL CROSSINGS!

You seem to have a hard time understanding that this discussion is about 100% closure of the border except for legal crossings.  100%, understand?  100%, not 90%, not even 99%, 100%!

Now you chose to jump into this conversation, yet you refuse to stay on topic, so if you cannot stay on topic for what this discussion is about, I suggest you just go away.

 
 
loki12
7.2.12  loki12  replied to  Ozzwald @7.2.11    2 weeks ago
Moving the goalposts?  Trump wants his wall built, that's it.  Just a wall, and it takes someone truly ignorant about technology to think it is the answer to this.

FFS and you accuse others of not reading, do try to keep up, I highlighted the relevant parts.  No moving the goalposts you just failed to understand what was written.

This is exactly what I wrote above,

 if you build a wall with embedded sensors you can have people there before they get over especially if you use GBR with video analytics,

Technology will not close the border, it will help enforce immigration enforcement BUT IT WILL NOT STOP ALL ILLEGAL CROSSINGS!

I never said that, I guess it is easier to argue against bullshit that you make up yourself. It is a combination of Technology a Physical barrier and manpower.

You seem to have a hard time understanding that this discussion is about 100% closure of the border except for legal crossings.  100%, understand?  100%, not 90%, not even 99%,100%!

I understand perfectly, you are just made because you are failing. 

Now you chose to jump into this conversation, yet you refuse to stay on topic, so if you cannot stay on topic for what this discussion is about, I suggest you just go away.

Exactly what isn't on topic, the fact that you don't like opposing opinions that prove you wrong? the fact that you don't have any idea whether or not it will work so you just scream NO?  Give a reason why the combination of those technologies won't work when they have been proven effective prevented entry into multiple military installations.  and because you say so isn't going to cut it.

Put up or shut up. Detail why they won't work.

 
 
Ozzwald
7.2.13  Ozzwald  replied to  loki12 @7.2.12    2 weeks ago
Exactly what isn't on topic, the fact that you don't like opposing opinions that prove you wrong?

I'm fine with opposing opinions, just not fine when those opinions are not what I was talking about in the 1st place.

 
 
Paula Bartholomew
8  Paula Bartholomew    3 weeks ago

 For the agricultural industry

Trump is considering letting the ag industry to still employ illegals.  The Secretary of AG is working up a proposal

 
 
XDm9mm
8.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @8    3 weeks ago

Not quite....   Trump noted the H2B VISA program....   NOT//NOT illegals, (at least per the speech I saw him give), unless you have specific viable links to provide proving otherwise

 
 
magnoliaave
8.1.1  magnoliaave  replied to  XDm9mm @8.1    3 weeks ago

I read where they will be guest workers.

 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
8.1.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  magnoliaave @8.1.1    2 weeks ago

The H2B visa program is a farce. We have been dealing with it since my daughter's boyfriend got deported to England.. where they took him gladly. He's Italian, and works for JP Morgan and makes 6 figures and didn't make the lottery 3 times. He was educated here in the US since high school and is a graduate of Johns Hopkins. Talk about brain drain. 

 
 
charger 383
9  charger 383    3 weeks ago

Overpopulation is the problem politicians don't want to address

 
 
Larry Hampton
9.1  Larry Hampton  replied to  charger 383 @9    3 weeks ago

Yup exactly so Charger, and that is the issue that needs to be dealt with, no matter the country.

 
 
Dean Moriarty
10  Dean Moriarty    3 weeks ago

I agree immigration was a great thing before the welfare state existed. Milton Friedman saw the handwriting on the wall and explains why you can’t have open borders with a welfare state. Immigration is great as long as they are illegal. 

 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
10.1  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Dean Moriarty @10    2 weeks ago

Milton Friedman was an economist (whose fiscal ideas have been complete failures every time a republican administration has implemented them) and clearly doesn't know anything or chooses to ignore the facts around the history of immigration in this country.  There was vigorous, if not vicious,  anti-immigrant sentiment and activity in this country at least back to the 1850s when immigration stopped being dominantly Protestant and from England and Scotland.  He seems to suggest that immigrants were met at Ellis Island with confetti and brass bands and led directly to get their job and enjoy the American "Dream."  Those legal immigrants of pre-1914 were treated the same way as illegal immigrants are today--as a cheap labor source with no rights who could be exploited by the owner-class and who lived in extraordinary poverty.  Their jobs, in other words, allowed them to live a subsistence life. 

Friedman and everyone of his ilk or fan club propagate this myth that if you take away everything that gives the working class (and nowadays, even the middle class) and go back to the way it was before there were labor protections and minimum wages and other various social reforms that we'll be taken back to some golden age which never existed.  Only people who never learned this country's history or decided to ignore it can hold this ridiculous mythology. 

 
 
evilgenius
11  evilgenius    3 weeks ago
The only ones IMO who got the shaft were the African Americans who didn't ask to come here. 

The Transportation Act of 1718 gave British judges sentences of 7 years of indenture in the colonies in lieu of whipping and branding. Also instead of a normal sentence of hanging for a more serious crime people would be sent to work in the colonies for 14 years. An estimated 52,000 convicted prisoners were sent to the colonies under the Act. Some historians claim as much as 10% of all migrants here at the time were British convicts. This was thought to clean up the streets of London as well as to fix the labor shortage in America. 

The colony of Georgia is historically thought of as a penal colony. It was originally setup to be by James Oglethorpe to use criminals released in a wave from the British prisons with no means. He took them as debtors to Savanna, but it didn't really work as Oglethorpe is quoted "as many of the poor who had been useless in England were inclined to be useless likewise in Georgia." most of the debtors (90%) during the peak wound up in Maryland and Virginia. Virginia tried to pass an a law to prohibit convicts from being sent in 1670 and was overruled by the king. In 1722 Pennsylvania tried to pass a tax for the importation of any people for servitude who had been found guilty of any heinous crimes. This too was overruled.

Women at the time were convicted of for such heinous crimes as being lewd and walking the streets after 10pm. Many times men were convicted for political reasons as prisoners after some battle.

There are writings as early as 1630 talking about Scots being sent after losing battles. Other writings of Irishmen sent during their wars with Britain.

 
 
magnoliaave
11.1  magnoliaave  replied to  evilgenius @11    2 weeks ago

Darn, this is interesting.  In my history it seems that two brothers were sent over indentured and ended up in N.C. I have the goods on one, but not the other. 

 
 
evilgenius
11.1.1  evilgenius  replied to  magnoliaave @11.1    2 weeks ago

My ex-wife's sir name was made up so a certain band of Irish criminals could identify and find one another once they got here.

 
 
magnoliaave
11.1.2  magnoliaave  replied to  evilgenius @11.1.1    2 weeks ago

Incredible!  A tidbit......You know the one I said I had the goods on?  Well, he sat in that hot smoky room with the D of I and Constitution people.  Wonder what his crime was in England.  Couldn't have been much.

 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
11.1.3  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  evilgenius @11.1.1    2 weeks ago

My Irish ancestor's surname was Mallon.  The surname of "Typhoid Mary" was Mallon.  I submit this as a cautionary tale about finding out too much about one's ancestry. *

*just to be clear, "my" Mallons were not related to "that" Mallon. 

 
 
evilgenius
11.1.4  evilgenius  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @11.1.3    2 weeks ago
The surname of "Typhoid Mary" was Mallon.

Now there's a tragic historical tale. Almost 30 years in isolation... wow.

 I submit this as a cautionary tale about finding out too much about one's ancestry.

One should get the ancestry from accounts of the time when possible. 

 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
11.1.5  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  evilgenius @11.1.4    2 weeks ago
One should get the ancestry from accounts of the time when possible.

Trouble is, the record keeping in the 1850s was sketchy at best.  Many if not most Irish immigrants tended to aggregate first  in Maryland due to its high concentration of Catholics as the only original colony that was set up as a haven for them.  Many of those immigrants moved west (as mine did) but we have no accounts of that journey.  My aunts and older sisters did find out that my Irish GGM and German GGF met at the Mother Seton "complex" in MD and were married there before heading to central KS.  Interestingly, I just recently learned that my GGM went first to Quebec before entering the US.  It seems both had extended family members who either came as a group or had already settled in KS when my kin arrived in the late 1850s.  I mention all this just to illustrate how difficult in my case at least it was to come up with much or very solid details. 

 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
11.1.6  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @11.1.5    2 weeks ago

My brother went through the Mormon Church records, most of them are really accurate, he also went to our home towns in Kansas to go through the grave yards to find names he knew of, then he tracked down others he found on birth certificates and, census records.

 
 
evilgenius
11.1.7  evilgenius  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @11.1.5    2 weeks ago
Trouble is, the record keeping in the 1850s was sketchy at best.

And the earlier you go the worse it gets. My gf's mother took a trip to Ireland a couple of years ago to track down family records there. Their US records go back to the late 1800's/early 1900's.  Her father is planning a trip to Poland to do some research on his side of the family. They came through Ellis Island so were documented there even with a name change.

I've done no research on my families. 

 
 
magnoliaave
11.1.8  magnoliaave  replied to  evilgenius @11.1.7    2 weeks ago

Yes, and try to track down a Thomas Murphy in Ireland without specific knowledge!

I've got my English and French ancestry down pretty well, but it's Thomas that is the problem.

 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
11.1.9  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  magnoliaave @11.1.8    2 weeks ago
Yes, and try to track down a Thomas Murphy in Ireland without specific knowledge!

LOL, Thomas Murphy, the John Smith of Ireland.

 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
11.1.10  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  magnoliaave @11.1.8    2 weeks ago

Have you tried using the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to find him? They have really great ancestry records.

 
 
magnoliaave
11.1.11  magnoliaave  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @11.1.10    2 weeks ago

Yes, they do.  I have tracked the family to settling in MS.   Farmers.  I have the original court record where he signed his approval for his 15 year old daughter to marry.  She became my grandmother's mother.  Interesting.

 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
11.1.12  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  magnoliaave @11.1.11    2 weeks ago

How about maritime records? Passenger ship records anything like that?

 
 
magnoliaave
11.1.13  magnoliaave  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @11.1.12    2 weeks ago

It seems the Thomas Murphy name is just too common,

Funny though on ship records.  I found that my French ancestor was a cabin boy on a French ship that came into the MS Gulf coast.  He became an Indian scout, married an Indian and became in charge of Indian Affairs in Washington.

 
 
Sparty On
11.1.14  Sparty On  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @11.1.12    2 weeks ago

Later records were quite good.   My dad's parents came through Ellis Island and we actually got copies of the original ships manifest and the processing records from Ellis Island for both of them.

Really cool stuff!

 
 
magnoliaave
11.1.15  magnoliaave  replied to  Sparty On @11.1.14    2 weeks ago

That is cool stuff.

 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
11.1.16  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  Sparty On @11.1.14    2 weeks ago

That is cool.

 
 
Sparty On
11.1.17  Sparty On  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @11.1.16    2 weeks ago

Yeah, through the Ellis Island Foundation we got the actual check in sheet (a copy) with their name on it, a picture of the boat they came across on, all matted and framed together.   It is really cool.

One of the nicer gifts i've ever had the pleasure of giving.

 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
11.1.18  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  Sparty On @11.1.17    2 weeks ago

I can totally understand that, my family didn't come over and, land at Ellis Island, we got here before it was used.

 
 
Sparty On
11.1.19  Sparty On  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @11.1.18    2 weeks ago

My family is a mixed bag, some newer, some old.   Moms side has been here for nearly 400 years.   Lots of history there, very difficult to track.

 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
11.1.20  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  magnoliaave @11.1.8    2 weeks ago
Thomas Murphy in Ireland

What's the problem?  There couldn't be more than a few dozen thousand by that name at any one point in time there.  chuckle

 
 
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