A Kentucky appeals court on Friday upheld a judge’s ruling ordering the release of secret records about Purdue Pharma’s marketing of the powerful prescription opioid OxyContin, which has been blamed for helping to seed today’s opioid addiction epidemic.
The decision comes as Purdue and other prescription opioid makers face an investigation of their marketing practices by a coalition of attorneys general from more than 40 states. In addition, hundreds of cities, counties, tribes, and states have in recent months filed a fresh round of lawsuits against Purdue alleging OxyContin was deceptively marketed; the suit brought by Massachusetts also named the Sackler family as defendants.
I suffered a very bad leg and ankle shattering experience.
Hate is not a usual term I use, because hate, to me brings to thought things I just do not want to talk about.
Our one shoe fits all mentality preferred it is better to make someone experience months worth of excruciating pain than take a pain killer that is NOT addictive to this person. ME. I hate them and that mentality.
I don't see a call for getting rid of Oxycontin entirely. Just a demand for the truth regarding what Purdue knew about its addictive potential.
Narcotic painkillers will always have a place in medicine, IMO. But to be able to use them judiciously, we need to be aware of the risks they carry. It seems that Purdue withheld knowledge regarding the risks.
Narcotic painkillers will always have a place in medicine, IMO. But to be able to use them judiciously, we need to be aware of the risks they carry. It seems that Purdue withheld knowledge regarding the risks.
I agree with all of that.
What I disagree with is the the mentality the pervades our society which has been handed down from our pre-founders in Plymouth. The pruritans.
It seems we are never able to make truly clinical decisions. The mentality is always an on/off or yes/no switch.
My scanner is broken. I wish I could my ID card that gets me through federal and state security scanners, even airports.
I had to rely on a "medication" that was no more effective than life savers for months. It is best that I do not know who these individuals, who put this in place, are.
I've never had trouble getting pain meds when I've needed them, which fortunately has not been often. Some severe lower back pain, and after a c-section. TBH, though, narcotics don't seem to do much for me. They just make me drowsy enough to sleep through the pain.
I'm honestly not sure why you were denied needed pain control. I wish you hadn't been.
Living with chronic conditions or disease = profit
This is a business model for many manufacturers and it isn't going to change. Purdue got caught but they know the financial return outweighs the risk. They've made billions and billions off the misery, death and destruction of people's lives. This epidemic touches every family in some way.
They'll pay a few million in fines amounting to about a day's revenue, put a candy coating on it and call it the new safer Oxy. Added bonus for Purdue. They'll taste good so children will eat them. Yaaay for capitalism.
This is a GREAT topic for discussion and it's getting little to no attention. Members would rather debate an SNL article than a topic that is touching so many Americans in a tragic way.
The site is a snapshot of what is wrong with our society.
Thanks, PJ. I have family members who are affected by addiction, and friends with chronic pain, so this issue is important to me. It's not a subject that gets people riled up, though, and I understand that.
And your seed highlights some important political realities, too.
My cousin had both one of his friends and his girlfriend die of overdoses in his presence. Of course, my cousin was also using drugs at the time. He says he's clean now, but I wonder.
My cousin's addictions caused my grandmother to forego pain meds in her final months with cancer. She was afraid he'd steal them and either OD or get in trouble for selling them. She took little for pain relief until she was in the hospital during her last days, and she had a very painful type of cancer.
So sorry to hear that. My son has overdosed 3 times that I know of in which he had to be given Naloxone to be revived. Last year he called me early one morning from a hospital asking if I could come pick him up. He had overdosed the night before. Whomever he was using with that night had called the ambulance before leaving him to be found. I'm glad they got there in time. Last October my niece overdosed and died. She was my sister's only child. My sister hasn't recovered.
Late last week, there was a pretty big drug bust in our county. 19 people arrested, some on federal charges, some charged with use of firearms to further their drug trafficking.
One of those arrested was my son's baseball coach. He was charged with possession, with no mention of intent to distribute, but it sure is an eye-opener when an adult you've trusted with your son makes the police blotter.
My son is a teenager, and going through all the angst and withdrawal that that implies, but he does talk to me about drugs in his school. I hope I can take that as a sign that he's not getting into that scene himself.
Well I'm still trying to figure it out. I've spent 10's of thousands of dollars sending him to rehabs over and over. He's stolen thousands of dollars from me. He's lived on the streets for awhile but I can't turn my back on him. I keep hoping he recovers. My other thought is if I turn my back on him it might be the last time I see him alive. I put him up in a small apartment because I couldn't bear for him to be on the streets. It's been a struggle.
hahahahaha - sorry, I'm being a Debbie downer.
Anyhow, I mentioned on a different seed a short time ago that I don't think we're going to cure this epidemic anytime soon. Pandora's box has been opened. We need to find a way to get addicts to be functioning addicts. I don't know how exactly to do that but I hope we figure it out soon.
No need to apologize. That's one of the reasons this is so important. It's not just those who are addicted themselves who are affected. It wreaks havoc on their family and friends, too. Emotionally, financially, sometimes physically, if their addicted loved ones have violent tendencies.
I hope your son can recover, or at least get to the point that he can function. I can't imagine what you're going through. (((PJ)))
I had nine surgeries in two years. Spent 45 days in U.W. Medical Center in Seattle. After my last surgery, it took two years to recover. During that time, I was on 125 mcg fentnyl patches, vicodin, and oxycodone, (I was taking a LOT of it, I was in a lot of pain... I was taking so much, I had to call the local Rite-Aid 5 days ahead of time so they could make sure they had enough to fill the script, seriously). As I healed, I knew I needed the pain meds less and less, but getting off of them was pure hell. Itching, skin crawling, couldn't sleep, nightmares....it was miserable. I had to call and just about beg for more. I explained that I was having withdrawal symptoms and needed a way to get off the bloody things but the surgeon just threw more oxy at me. For the last 6 months of my getting better, I just bit the bullet and got myself off of them. It wasn't fun. Long story short, I did get myself off of them with almost no help at all from the people that put me on the things in the first place. Oh yea, I also lost close to 85 pounds...to the point that my PCP said that if I didn't gain weight, she was going to order tube feedings.....but my ass looked great in Levis again.
I have a ton of empathy for people that get hooked on pain meds....not much sympathy, but tons of empathy.
One of the problems is that when doctors and surgeons put people on pain meds, there is no end game. It's just, "treat the pain now, worry about the consequences later" attitude. They need to have a plan for ENDING the treatment of pain after the pain is gone. Titration is the best bet, in my personal opinion but if a person that is the type that gets addicted to things easily in the first place, it probably wouldn't work.
I worked as a nurse for several years and I would see on a daily basis patients walking in that you could tell were not in any kind of distress at all but would insist that they MUST have a narcotic. The sad thing is? 90% of the time the doctor would hand them out like candy...
Step one? Hold doctors accountable for handing out pain meds when they are simply not needed. That would end a huge part of the problem.
And people, FFS, if you have pain meds, please, keep them hidden or better yet, under lock and key.
Even just five or six years ago, the philosophy I was hearing in most courses about dental and facial pain was "treat the pain, or the patient won't rehab". This was mostly about TMJ pain, and seemed to be following on the thought processes of orthopedic surgeons. If the patient is in too much pain to move properly, the patient will never get to the point of being able to move properly.
What we failed to consider was that some patients will never get back to ideal. We have to work with "functional" instead of "ideal". And "functional" sometimes involves some pain. And yes, that sucks, but so does addiction.
I never jumped on the bandwagon that said patients must never experience pain. I'd already seen addiction in my own family.
And "functional" sometimes involves some pain. And yes, that sucks, but so does addiction.
Exactly. Once you screw with your body, or get old, shit just hurts for no reason sometimes. That's life. Running to the doctor every time you have a pain is really not doing you, (and I don't mean *YOU*), any good. Ice, heat, hot tub, ibuprofin....all work well for aches and pains.
All of my siblings were addicts. My sister still, (at the tender age of 67), is STILL a pain pill junkie. She stole a lot of them from me when I was sick and actually needed them. Long story...and we still don't speak 10 years after the fact.
All of my surgeries involved soft tissue, so I have no pain at all from them, but, getting older....every morning I wake up and before I even move, I ask myself, "Well, what will hurt today for no reason at all"... LOL
I had lower back pain starting in high school. I was prescribed narcotics several times for it, but I always ended up throwing them away, because they didn't really help. What did help was physical therapy. The physical therapy itself hurt like hell sometimes, but it got rid of the pain.
My c-section pain went away entirely if I took a hot shower. The Tylox only took the edge off of it, and left me so loopy I was afraid to carry the baby anywhere.
I'm sorry about your siblings, and what their addictions did to your relationships.
Around here we have had doctors and pharmacists charged with running pill scams. Writing fake scripts and pushing a lot of narcotics.
Sorry to hear what you and others here have gone through. I didn't mean to make light of it, it is just after trying it once, I wouldn't be able to take them. They just made me feel sick to my stomach. If I ever needed pain meds, they would have to give me something else.
One summer when I was in college, I worked as a receptionist in a dentist's office. It was owned by my family's physician at the time, the the medical and dental offices shared a parking lot. The medical office was attached to the physician's family home.
One day, FBI and DEA agents showed up - blue lights all over the yard and parking lot. They swarmed the medical office and attached home with guns drawn. Of course, we in the dental office stayed out of sight. They confiscated his computer hard drives and a bunch of charts.
Turned out that one of the physician's former employees had been selling prescriptions for narcotics by forging his signature on his script pad. This was long before electronic prescriptions. The physician's DEA number was showing up on way too many prescriptions, and it drew attention. The employee had already left the area - they traced her to Wisconsin.
Opening them up to more lawsuits probably is the goal. They should be held accountable for misinformation that led to addictions, and funds from any lawsuits could be earmarked, at least in part, to treating addictions.
Yeah, I figured that was probably the goal, which is why the company is fighting it.
I brought up the smoking as my state had won a lawsuit against the tobacco companies. The billions won was supposed to be set as an account to help people with medical treatment.
How the money was used or where it is now, I don't know.
I am dubious about the fairness of going after the producer of the drug. I suspect it plays into the common prejudice against corporations as predatory and greedy. This tendency could turn appropriate attention away from others who deserve scrutiny.
It's not exactly a secret that opioids are addictive. Doctors should be monitoring patients on any potentially addictive drug and have a plan in mind for weaning them off of it when they prescribe it, not months or years down the road.
And by the way, there is a very good reason why Oxycontin is prescribed so much. It works!
Even if true, it's still an opioid and it's going to be addictive. There are more responsible parties than just Purdue, and all Purdue has to do is argue that point to frustrate the efforts of anyone who sues them.
Consider: If Purdue isn't 100% to blame for the addiction crisis, then other parties like doctors, hospitals, insurance companies, regulators - and probably other people I haven't thought of - could be held liable. So, they're all highly motivated to throw Purdue under the bus.
I don't have any loyalty for Purdue. It's just that given the stakes, I don't trust any of these people to be honest.
Even if true, it's still an opioid and it's going to be addictive.
I never said otherwise.
There is a mechanism for disciplining physicians who overprescribe - suspension of their licenses, even prison time. Pharmacists who fill excessive numbers of prescriptions - same deal. Patients who become addicted risk imprisonment.
But until fairly recently, there has been little discussion of holding pharmaceutical companies accountable for their false advertising. Now there is.
Purdue shouldn't be allowed to keep this information under wraps.
If they actually lied, I hope they are held accountable. Unfortunately the bar for punishing speech is pretty high in advertising (it's actually a unique standard, but I digress). Should be an interesting case.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
As usual I have the off consensus perspective.
I suffered a very bad leg and ankle shattering experience.
Hate is not a usual term I use, because hate, to me brings to thought things I just do not want to talk about.
Our one shoe fits all mentality preferred it is better to make someone experience months worth of excruciating pain than take a pain killer that is NOT addictive to this person. ME. I hate them and that mentality.
I don't see a call for getting rid of Oxycontin entirely. Just a demand for the truth regarding what Purdue knew about its addictive potential.
Narcotic painkillers will always have a place in medicine, IMO. But to be able to use them judiciously, we need to be aware of the risks they carry. It seems that Purdue withheld knowledge regarding the risks.
I agree with all of that.
What I disagree with is the the mentality the pervades our society which has been handed down from our pre-founders in Plymouth. The pruritans.
It seems we are never able to make truly clinical decisions. The mentality is always an on/off or yes/no switch.
My scanner is broken. I wish I could my ID card that gets me through federal and state security scanners, even airports.
I had to rely on a "medication" that was no more effective than life savers for months. It is best that I do not know who these individuals, who put this in place, are.
This was a decade ago.
So I ask, how did others get these meds?
I've never had trouble getting pain meds when I've needed them, which fortunately has not been often. Some severe lower back pain, and after a c-section. TBH, though, narcotics don't seem to do much for me. They just make me drowsy enough to sleep through the pain.
I'm honestly not sure why you were denied needed pain control. I wish you hadn't been.
Glad you received proper treatment.
I guess it was in that time frame when "pain management" popped up around here.
No one wanted to take responsibility for providing necessary medication.
I do not know of the situation is the same now, yet that experience sticks in my mind.
There needs to be better decision making other that "some people got addicted to the stuff so we can't give it to anybody".
This is a win for the public. It will force companies into the light.
Bottom line: This tragedy is a combination of failures on multiple levels including FDA.
Agreed.
The real issue:
Addiction = profit.
Living with chronic conditions or disease = profit
This is a business model for many manufacturers and it isn't going to change. Purdue got caught but they know the financial return outweighs the risk. They've made billions and billions off the misery, death and destruction of people's lives. This epidemic touches every family in some way.
They'll pay a few million in fines amounting to about a day's revenue, put a candy coating on it and call it the new safer Oxy. Added bonus for Purdue. They'll taste good so children will eat them. Yaaay for capitalism.
This is a GREAT topic for discussion and it's getting little to no attention. Members would rather debate an SNL article than a topic that is touching so many Americans in a tragic way.
The site is a snapshot of what is wrong with our society.
Thanks, PJ. I have family members who are affected by addiction, and friends with chronic pain, so this issue is important to me. It's not a subject that gets people riled up, though, and I understand that.
And your seed highlights some important political realities, too.
I can relate. I have a family member who suffers from addiction also. It's heart wrenching.
My cousin had both one of his friends and his girlfriend die of overdoses in his presence. Of course, my cousin was also using drugs at the time. He says he's clean now, but I wonder.
My cousin's addictions caused my grandmother to forego pain meds in her final months with cancer. She was afraid he'd steal them and either OD or get in trouble for selling them. She took little for pain relief until she was in the hospital during her last days, and she had a very painful type of cancer.
So sorry to hear that. My son has overdosed 3 times that I know of in which he had to be given Naloxone to be revived. Last year he called me early one morning from a hospital asking if I could come pick him up. He had overdosed the night before. Whomever he was using with that night had called the ambulance before leaving him to be found. I'm glad they got there in time. Last October my niece overdosed and died. She was my sister's only child. My sister hasn't recovered.
That's terrible, PJ. Every parent's fear.
Late last week, there was a pretty big drug bust in our county. 19 people arrested, some on federal charges, some charged with use of firearms to further their drug trafficking.
One of those arrested was my son's baseball coach. He was charged with possession, with no mention of intent to distribute, but it sure is an eye-opener when an adult you've trusted with your son makes the police blotter.
My son is a teenager, and going through all the angst and withdrawal that that implies, but he does talk to me about drugs in his school. I hope I can take that as a sign that he's not getting into that scene himself.
Tragic, I am sorry to hear about this PJ... I cannot even imagine how I would react if one of my kids died. Not sure I would recover either.
Well I'm still trying to figure it out. I've spent 10's of thousands of dollars sending him to rehabs over and over. He's stolen thousands of dollars from me. He's lived on the streets for awhile but I can't turn my back on him. I keep hoping he recovers. My other thought is if I turn my back on him it might be the last time I see him alive. I put him up in a small apartment because I couldn't bear for him to be on the streets. It's been a struggle.
hahahahaha - sorry, I'm being a Debbie downer.
Anyhow, I mentioned on a different seed a short time ago that I don't think we're going to cure this epidemic anytime soon. Pandora's box has been opened. We need to find a way to get addicts to be functioning addicts. I don't know how exactly to do that but I hope we figure it out soon.
No need to apologize. That's one of the reasons this is so important. It's not just those who are addicted themselves who are affected. It wreaks havoc on their family and friends, too. Emotionally, financially, sometimes physically, if their addicted loved ones have violent tendencies.
I hope your son can recover, or at least get to the point that he can function. I can't imagine what you're going through. (((PJ)))
I had nine surgeries in two years. Spent 45 days in U.W. Medical Center in Seattle. After my last surgery, it took two years to recover. During that time, I was on 125 mcg fentnyl patches, vicodin, and oxycodone, (I was taking a LOT of it, I was in a lot of pain... I was taking so much, I had to call the local Rite-Aid 5 days ahead of time so they could make sure they had enough to fill the script, seriously). As I healed, I knew I needed the pain meds less and less, but getting off of them was pure hell. Itching, skin crawling, couldn't sleep, nightmares....it was miserable. I had to call and just about beg for more. I explained that I was having withdrawal symptoms and needed a way to get off the bloody things but the surgeon just threw more oxy at me. For the last 6 months of my getting better, I just bit the bullet and got myself off of them. It wasn't fun. Long story short, I did get myself off of them with almost no help at all from the people that put me on the things in the first place. Oh yea, I also lost close to 85 pounds...to the point that my PCP said that if I didn't gain weight, she was going to order tube feedings.....but my ass looked great in Levis again.
I have a ton of empathy for people that get hooked on pain meds....not much sympathy, but tons of empathy.
One of the problems is that when doctors and surgeons put people on pain meds, there is no end game. It's just, "treat the pain now, worry about the consequences later" attitude. They need to have a plan for ENDING the treatment of pain after the pain is gone. Titration is the best bet, in my personal opinion but if a person that is the type that gets addicted to things easily in the first place, it probably wouldn't work.
I worked as a nurse for several years and I would see on a daily basis patients walking in that you could tell were not in any kind of distress at all but would insist that they MUST have a narcotic. The sad thing is? 90% of the time the doctor would hand them out like candy...
Step one? Hold doctors accountable for handing out pain meds when they are simply not needed. That would end a huge part of the problem.
And people, FFS, if you have pain meds, please, keep them hidden or better yet, under lock and key.
Kudos to you for weaning yourself off of them.
Even just five or six years ago, the philosophy I was hearing in most courses about dental and facial pain was "treat the pain, or the patient won't rehab". This was mostly about TMJ pain, and seemed to be following on the thought processes of orthopedic surgeons. If the patient is in too much pain to move properly, the patient will never get to the point of being able to move properly.
What we failed to consider was that some patients will never get back to ideal. We have to work with "functional" instead of "ideal". And "functional" sometimes involves some pain. And yes, that sucks, but so does addiction.
I never jumped on the bandwagon that said patients must never experience pain. I'd already seen addiction in my own family.
Exactly. Once you screw with your body, or get old, shit just hurts for no reason sometimes. That's life. Running to the doctor every time you have a pain is really not doing you, (and I don't mean *YOU*), any good. Ice, heat, hot tub, ibuprofin....all work well for aches and pains.
All of my siblings were addicts. My sister still, (at the tender age of 67), is STILL a pain pill junkie. She stole a lot of them from me when I was sick and actually needed them. Long story...and we still don't speak 10 years after the fact.
All of my surgeries involved soft tissue, so I have no pain at all from them, but, getting older....every morning I wake up and before I even move, I ask myself, "Well, what will hurt today for no reason at all"... LOL
And with that, off to bed for me.
Great article Sandy, thanks for posting it.
I had lower back pain starting in high school. I was prescribed narcotics several times for it, but I always ended up throwing them away, because they didn't really help. What did help was physical therapy. The physical therapy itself hurt like hell sometimes, but it got rid of the pain.
My c-section pain went away entirely if I took a hot shower. The Tylox only took the edge off of it, and left me so loopy I was afraid to carry the baby anywhere.
I'm sorry about your siblings, and what their addictions did to your relationships.
Good night.
I don't see what difference it would make. Just like people know smoking is bad, they still smoke.
The only thing I can see happening from this is them being opened up to more lawsuits. Maybe that is the goal.
On a personal note, I only tried oxy once. I didn't like it. Definitely not my thing. Lortab I could take. Like those.
Anything would be better than the system we have now.
Hell, how about a clinic where people come to get their pain meds when it's time for their dose? Naw, never work. I must be tired.
Around here we have had doctors and pharmacists charged with running pill scams. Writing fake scripts and pushing a lot of narcotics.
Sorry to hear what you and others here have gone through. I didn't mean to make light of it, it is just after trying it once, I wouldn't be able to take them. They just made me feel sick to my stomach. If I ever needed pain meds, they would have to give me something else.
One summer when I was in college, I worked as a receptionist in a dentist's office. It was owned by my family's physician at the time, the the medical and dental offices shared a parking lot. The medical office was attached to the physician's family home.
One day, FBI and DEA agents showed up - blue lights all over the yard and parking lot. They swarmed the medical office and attached home with guns drawn. Of course, we in the dental office stayed out of sight. They confiscated his computer hard drives and a bunch of charts.
Turned out that one of the physician's former employees had been selling prescriptions for narcotics by forging his signature on his script pad. This was long before electronic prescriptions. The physician's DEA number was showing up on way too many prescriptions, and it drew attention. The employee had already left the area - they traced her to Wisconsin.
Opening them up to more lawsuits probably is the goal. They should be held accountable for misinformation that led to addictions, and funds from any lawsuits could be earmarked, at least in part, to treating addictions.
Yeah, I figured that was probably the goal, which is why the company is fighting it.
I brought up the smoking as my state had won a lawsuit against the tobacco companies. The billions won was supposed to be set as an account to help people with medical treatment.
How the money was used or where it is now, I don't know.
I am dubious about the fairness of going after the producer of the drug. I suspect it plays into the common prejudice against corporations as predatory and greedy. This tendency could turn appropriate attention away from others who deserve scrutiny.
It's not exactly a secret that opioids are addictive. Doctors should be monitoring patients on any potentially addictive drug and have a plan in mind for weaning them off of it when they prescribe it, not months or years down the road.
And by the way, there is a very good reason why Oxycontin is prescribed so much. It works!
Purdue lied about its addictive potential It was marketed as less addictive than other narcotics.
Even if true, it's still an opioid and it's going to be addictive. There are more responsible parties than just Purdue, and all Purdue has to do is argue that point to frustrate the efforts of anyone who sues them.
Consider: If Purdue isn't 100% to blame for the addiction crisis, then other parties like doctors, hospitals, insurance companies, regulators - and probably other people I haven't thought of - could be held liable. So, they're all highly motivated to throw Purdue under the bus.
I don't have any loyalty for Purdue. It's just that given the stakes, I don't trust any of these people to be honest.
I never said otherwise.
There is a mechanism for disciplining physicians who overprescribe - suspension of their licenses, even prison time. Pharmacists who fill excessive numbers of prescriptions - same deal. Patients who become addicted risk imprisonment.
But until fairly recently, there has been little discussion of holding pharmaceutical companies accountable for their false advertising. Now there is.
Purdue shouldn't be allowed to keep this information under wraps.
Absolutely, positively not true for all and that assumption is one of the problems of our puritanical based mentality.
We have tools available via pharmacokinetics. We just need to tune it for the right things instead of reliance on lore.
If they actually lied, I hope they are held accountable. Unfortunately the bar for punishing speech is pretty high in advertising (it's actually a unique standard, but I digress). Should be an interesting case.