Sanders distances himself from 2011 editorial on his Senate website praising the American dream in Venezuela

  
Via:  sparty-on  •  4 weeks ago  •  41 comments

Sanders distances himself from 2011 editorial on his Senate website praising the American dream in Venezuela
These days, the American dream is more apt to be realized in South America, in places such as Ecuador, Venezuela and Argentina

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


As the political situation in Venezuela deteriorates, an editorial endorsed by presidential hopeful Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., that praised the socialist country as a place where the "American dream is more apt to be realized" in 2011.


The piece from the Valley News editorial board, which discussed the U.S. jobs and wealth gap, was posted under the "must read" section on Sanders' official Senate website.

"Less remarked, however, is the fact that America's wealth gap is also a race gap," the editorial board wrote. "As the Pew Research Center reported last week, the median wealth of white households is 20 times that of black households and 18 times that of Hispanic households. Think about that. In 2009, the typical black household had $5,677 in wealth — defined as assets minus debts; the typical Hispanic household had $6,325; the typical white household, by contrast, had $113,149.

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Sparty On
1  seeder  Sparty On    4 weeks ago

Feel the Bern of Democratic Socialism .....

 
 
 
Texan1211
1.1  Texan1211  replied to  Sparty On @1    4 weeks ago

I didn't think that Bernie knew the backstroke--I figured all of his strokes just took him farther to the left!

 
 
 
Sparty On
1.1.1  seeder  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1    4 weeks ago

Lol .....

Whats going on in Venezuela right now is a real "Doh" moment for the Bern.

 
 
 
TᵢG
2  TᵢG    4 weeks ago

Thing is, the Democratic Socialists are likely disgusted that Sanders is out redefining that category of socialism as his policies.   Even the DSA organization (which ostensibly is DS but in reality is a political organization that is incrementally pushing social democracy in the interim) have to be concerned by Sanders' 2011 comments.   Venezuela engaged in expropriation, authoritarian rule, command-economy, etc. (borrowing from the former USSR) and then (on top of that) went full out statist distributing benefits to the people while effectively killing the economy.   There was no attempt to economically empower the people of Venezuela (the core of Democratic Socialism).

Well, I have noted many times that Sanders is odd.   His policies are largely social democracy (European style where a capitalist economy funds statist public programs such as healthcare, education) and he oft references the Nordic nations (perfect examples of social democracy).   But then to support Venezuela (in 2011) which was doing nothing even remotely similar to the Nordic nations (and other implementations of social democracy such as in the U.K. and France) is a very good sign that Sanders is all over the map.   It is as though he supports (as what he calls 'socialism') any action that transfers power from the private sector to the state.

Strange bird.   Bernie is a statist who apparently likes to be known as a 'socialist'.

 
 
 
Sparty On
2.1  seeder  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @2    4 weeks ago

I know few people who have actually; owned a business, maintained a work force/payroll, provided a service to customers that remained profitable, etc, etc, that agree with the concept of Democratic Socialism in private business.   100% labor managed companies is a non starter in most cases.

I can use my business as an example.   Most of my staff is skilled blue collar workers.   Most are damn good at what they do.   What they do is work with their hands in the trades.   If left to their own devices, to actually run our business, they would undoubtedly be out of business very quickly.   Few have any concept of what it takes to run a business like ours.   Just like one of our office staff would be lost trying to do their job, they would be lost trying to run a business.

Now i'm sure there would be exceptions to the rule here but in my experience they would be exceptions only.   Most would fail miserably IMO.

 
 
 
TᵢG
2.1.1  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @2.1    3 weeks ago
I know few people who have actually; owned a business, maintained a work force/payroll, provided a service to customers that remained profitable, etc, etc, that agree with the concept of Democratic Socialism in private business. 

Certainly.   I cannot imagine any entrepreneur (or even anyone on an executive team) who would find the concepts of Democratic Socialism to be appealing.   Given our existing socio-economic/political system with all the integrated infrastructure (e.g. the stock market as a critical element enabling retirement to actually work) there is no way on the planet that our system could just move to Democratic Socialism.    I think that is part of the reason why the DSA talk of DS but advocate social democracy (a variant of capitalism).

As a multiple entrepreneur myself, I have a hard time imagining how my businesses could have achieved their successes with workplace democracy.   But thinking of an abrupt swap is silly.   A change from capitalism to socialism (by that I mean genuine economic freedom / control by the demos) would necessarily be a long evolution.   Not only would the culture have to change rather significantly (people would have to be much more aware and engaged) but the infrastructure would have to be profoundly different than what we have today.   So it just does not make any sense trying to envision our own experiences 'under socialism'.  

So socialism (even the Democratic Socialism variant) is not something that is going to happen in our lifetimes (if ever).   Instead of worrying about it, I recommend people get educated on what socialism is.   So many people tossing the word around with so many meanings.   It is just ridiculous to observe the nonsense.   People are concerned that 'socialism' is going to come to the USA instead of focusing their attention of the actual factors that can indeed take place today in the USA such as:

  • Excessive redistribution of wealth
  • Excessive statism
  • Expropriation of private property
  • Irresponsible social programs
  • Over-regulation of the private sector
  • Continued consolidation of wealth (and power)
  • ...

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.2  Freedom Warrior  replied to  TᵢG @2    4 weeks ago

I told you about this a few days ago. I really wonder why you continuously like to portray Socialism as just misunderstood.  Do you consider yourself a Democratic Socialist or are you just carrying water for them?

 

 
 
 
TᵢG
2.2.1  TᵢG  replied to  Freedom Warrior @2.2    3 weeks ago

Buy a vowel.   

Or at least pay attention.

I really wonder why you continuously like to portray Socialism as just misunderstood.  

Because the word 'socialism' is demonstrably misunderstood as evidenced by the many conflicting meanings of the term and the fundamental lack of demonstration that those using the term understand the defining characteristics of the concept.

Because it is far better for people to engage on the specific issues they find problematic rather than making comments like:  "we will never have socialism in the USA".   Well, if you really want to prevent that which you think is 'socialism' using clear language and directly oppose it.   If you are against additional social program run by the government then recognize that you are against statism.   If you are against government sponsored health care, free education, etc.  funded by imposing higher taxes and regulation on the private sector than recognize that you are against social democracy.   If you are against inheritance taxes, wealth taxes, etc. designed to provide funds to the government to provide programs for the lower income classes then you are against increased redistribution of wealth.   None of the above is 'socialism'.   There are perfectly good (and well defined) labels for these things.   Calling everything 'socialism' is simply ignorance.

Other than that, 'socialism' is a wonderful term for people to affix as a label to whatever they do not like.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.2.2  Freedom Warrior  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.1    3 weeks ago

I notice the lefties here enjoy your defense of socialism but my instincts inform me there is much more to it than that. I didn't expect you would answer the question.   I don't buy your marketing scheme and there is a long list of intellectuals that inform me on this topic that understand full well what socialism means in any particular context. 

For your benefit it would be wiser to assume you will never prevail in your folly.

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.2.3  Tessylo  replied to  Freedom Warrior @2.2.2    3 weeks ago

Intellectuals?  jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif

Where?  Russia?

 
 
 
TᵢG
2.2.4  TᵢG  replied to  Freedom Warrior @2.2.2    3 weeks ago

Given you think I am defending ‘socialism’ rather than pointing out the myriad misuse and confusion in the term, I will repeat my advice.

Buy a vowel, you clearly are not paying attention to what I an writing.   I would expect a C-level executive to demonstrate far better understanding of what I have written on this topic than what you routinely illustrate, ‘Chris’.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.2.5  Freedom Warrior  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.4    3 weeks ago

 You’re not fooling me with that smokescreen.  Answers like that just tell me I’m definitely on the right track.

 
 
 
TᵢG
2.2.6  TᵢG  replied to  Freedom Warrior @2.2.5    3 weeks ago

Enjoy your fantasy ‘Chris’.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.2.7  Freedom Warrior  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.6    3 weeks ago

 Well I won’t be enjoying yours.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.3  Freedom Warrior  replied to  TᵢG @2    3 weeks ago

 And you continue to act like there’s no connection at all between those two it just absolutely astonishes me that you could actually continue to get away with that nonsense  while l acting indignant and hiding behind disingenuous smoke screens.

 
 
 
TᵢG
2.3.1  TᵢG  replied to  Freedom Warrior @2.3    3 weeks ago
And you continue to act like there’s no connection at all between those two it just absolutely astonishes me that you could actually continue to get away with that nonsense  while l acting indignant and hiding behind disingenuous smoke screens.

Are you able to make a comment that is not vague?   Come on 'Chris' make a specific comment.   Name the 'two' and show me where I argue that there is no 'connection' (and tell me what you mean by 'connection').

Take a real stand.   Make a specific argument rather than hide behind ambiguity.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
3  Ed-NavDoc    4 weeks ago

Say what? What you smoking Bernie? I want some to smoke while wearing my rose colored glasses!jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
4  Vic Eldred    4 weeks ago

"Less remarked, however, is the fact that America's wealth gap is also a race gap,"




"The fundamental difference between equal treatment and equal performance is repeatedly confused. In performance terms, virtually no one is equal to anyone. The same individual is not even equal to himself on different days.".......Thomas Sowell

 
 
 
Kathleen
5  Kathleen    4 weeks ago

Bernie needs to comb his hair...

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
5.1  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Kathleen @5    4 weeks ago

Once the Utopian state is created, combs become a financial expense that can no longer be afforded. Bernie knows this so he's walking the walk. That I can respect.

 
 
 
Kathleen
5.1.1  Kathleen  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @5.1    4 weeks ago

jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Sparty On
5.1.2  seeder  Sparty On  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @5.1    4 weeks ago

Labor will decide if a comb is a proper acquisition for the Bern.

A Mr T bling starter kids for labor organizers?

  _v=63f541561486174

You bet.

A comb for the Bern?   Doubtful.

 
 
 
dennis smith
5.2  dennis smith  replied to  Kathleen @5    3 weeks ago

Hopefully he can comb it to look more like Colonel Sanders

 
 
 
Sunshine
6  Sunshine    4 weeks ago

384

 
 
 
XDm9mm
6.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Sunshine @6    3 weeks ago

Free (fill in the blank for whatever shit you want)______________________________ for everyone.  We'll make the rich pay for it.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
6.2  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Sunshine @6    3 weeks ago

Free?  The government doesn't really pay for anything, the taxpayers do.

One of the reasons a family making $200K a year in CA is barely able to live a middle class life.

 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
7  Sean Treacy    3 weeks ago

Venezuela demonstrating how socialist states always end up. 

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
8  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh    3 weeks ago

Vote for one of the 2020 comrades. You'll never have to vote again guaranteed.

 
 
 
Krishna
9  Krishna    3 weeks ago

What do people think the odds are..of Bernie actually  getting the Democratic nomination?

 
 
 
XDm9mm
9.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Krishna @9    3 weeks ago

Better than Bidens, and worse than Clintons. //S//

 
 
 
Texan1211
9.2  Texan1211  replied to  Krishna @9    3 weeks ago

Much better this time around without Clinton buying the DNC.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
9.3  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Krishna @9    3 weeks ago

Why on earth would the Dems nominate a whack doodle geezer to carry the torch for left wing fukwadism.  He can’t beat Trump.

 
 
 
Krishna
9.3.1  Krishna  replied to  Freedom Warrior @9.3    3 weeks ago
Why on earth would the Dems nominate a whack doodle geezer to carry the torch for left wing fukwadism.  He can’t beat Trump.

They wouldn't.

Which brings up another question: Why on Earth would people waste so much time discussing a candidate who has absolutely zero chance of winning the nomination? (must be a slow news day....nothing else much happening in the world???)

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
9.3.2  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Krishna @9.3.1    3 weeks ago

You have a habit of asking the wrong question consistently.

 
 
 
TᵢG
9.3.3  TᵢG  replied to  Freedom Warrior @9.3.2    3 weeks ago

Explain why.   Back up your allegation with specifics.   It takes no insight to merely declare that someone routinely asks the wrong question.   

 
 
 
Ozzwald
9.3.4  Ozzwald  replied to  Krishna @9.3.1    3 weeks ago
Why on Earth would people waste so much time discussing a candidate who has absolutely zero chance of winning the nomination?

It's a Pavlovian reaction. 

Instead of salivating at the sound of a bell right wingers do it at the work "socialism", unfortunately they also make as much sense as the dogs from the original experiment.

 
 
 
Sparty On
10  seeder  Sparty On    3 weeks ago

I'm just looking forward to Larry Davids "Bern" impressions on SNL again.

Good stuff!

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
10.1  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Sparty On @10    3 weeks ago

If you're lucky. I think SNL has given up on comedy.

 
 
 
Sparty On
10.1.1  seeder  Sparty On  replied to  Freedom Warrior @10.1    3 weeks ago

I disagree.  

I've been a non stop, avid watcher since the beginning.

Every SNL season has it's moments.   Some more than other but there you go.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
10.1.2  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Sparty On @10.1.1    3 weeks ago

I think a lot more people would agree with me that SNL has passed it's shelf life.

 
 
 
Sparty On
10.1.3  seeder  Sparty On  replied to  Freedom Warrior @10.1.2    3 weeks ago

Good to know.    I still disagree.   I can only speak for myself and I still enjoy and watch it every week.    

To each their own.

 
 
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