Biden calls for making Dreamers citizens, in new immigration plan

  
Via:  vic-eldred  •  4 weeks ago  •  56 comments

Biden calls for making Dreamers citizens, in new immigration plan

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


Former Vice President Joe Biden, while accusing President Trump of “vilifying immigrants” to "scare" voters, urged Congress to make so-called Dreamers citizens in his newly released campaign proposal to roll back the Trump administration's policies on illegal immigration.

The Democratic presidential primary front-runner’s proposals, published Monday morning in English and Spanish in the Miami Herald and its Spanish publication El Nuevo Herald,were as much of a blueprint of what he would do in the White House as they were a blistering critique of Trump’s record on the divisive issue.

Pointing to the Republican president’s threat last week of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) deportation raids across the country, Biden argued that it’s “clear Trump is only interested in using his policies to assault the dignity of the Latin community and scare voters to turn out on Election Day, while not addressing the real challenges facing our hemisphere.”

Biden also highlighted the detention of migrant children at the nation’s southern border, implemented last year as part of the administration’s zero-tolerance policy. Accusing Trump of “racist invective,” the former vice president said “under Trump, there have been horrifying scenes at the border of kids being kept in cages, tear-gassing asylum seekers, ripping children from their mothers’ arms — actions that subvert American values and erode our ability to lead on the global stage.”

Trump has repeatedly claimed that he “inherited” the policy from his predecessor, former President Barack Obama.

Biden, who served eight years as vice president under Obama, urged that “the next president must institute effective immigration reform while restoring regional policies grounded in respect.”

“Our asylum system needs to be improved, but the answer is to streamline and strengthen it so that it benefits legitimate claims of those fleeing persecution, while reducing potential for abuse,” he said.

Biden also called for giving U.S. citizenship to the thousands of young undocumented immigrants brought into the country illegally by their parents, saying they are "Americans, and Congress needs to make it official." 

These so-called Dreamers – thousands of young undocumented immigrants brought into the country illegally by their parents – were granted legal protections through the Obama-era Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program. Trump has sought to end that status.

"The millions of undocumented people in the United States can only be brought out of the shadows through fair treatment, not ugly threats," Biden said. "Trump’s efforts to repeal Temporary Protected Status (TPS) across the board have injected unnecessary uncertainty into the lives of thousands of families.”

Still, Biden said “it’s imperative that we secure our borders.” But he argued that Trump’s campaign promise to “build the wall” along the U.S. border with Mexico “is a slogan divorced from reality.”

Biden said, if elected, he would “focus instead on improving screening procedures at our legal ports of entry and making smart investments in border technology. These are sensible policies that will do more for our security than a wall ever could.”

Biden also criticized Trump’s diplomatic efforts in Venezuela, arguing Trump "has badly misjudged what it will take to bring democracy back to Venezuela, and his increasing belligerence threatens the international coalition of more than 50 countries that recognize Juan Guaido as the interim President of Venezuela.”

But he didn’t mention that Trump was the first world leader to recognize Guaido as the legitimate leader of Venezuela and helped build a coalition of countries that oppose the regime of Nicolas Maduro.

Trump has accused the Obama administration of failing to place enough tough sanctions on Maduro’s regime.

The release of Biden’s proposal comes three days after not appearing for a National Association of Latino Elected Officials conference that was attended by eight of his rivals for the Democratic nomination.

Biden was criticized by Latino leaders for skipping the conference. The event was held in Miami, which will also be the site of this week’s first round of Democratic primary debates.


By Paul Steinhauser

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Vic Eldred
1  seeder  Vic Eldred    4 weeks ago

As expected, right on schedule

 
 
 
Texan1211
1.1  Texan1211  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    4 weeks ago

Yet more Democratic pandering going on.

Will it ever end?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.1  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1    4 weeks ago

Never. This particular kind is the big Enchilada

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2  Perrie Halpern R.A.    4 weeks ago

Vic,

Your article is kind of a mixed bag. I am for letting the dreamers become citizens. I am not for letting any of the new detainees in unless they can prove their life is in imminent danger, which most of them are not.

So there I stand with Biden. 

I do agree that Obama didn't do enough in Venezuela sanction wise. Trump has done that. Biden missing the meeting could be for any number of reasons, and Trump wasn't there either. I am not throwing stones at either of them.

Why is it that things have to be so partisan?

 
 
 
katrix
2.1  katrix  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2    4 weeks ago
I do agree that Obama didn't do enough in Venezuela sanction wise. Trump has done that

And that's making the people starve, not hurting the people who are screwing up the country. There never seems to be a good answer as to what we should do in these situations.  Interfere and often make things worse (even if we don't realize it for years), or do nothing and watch it get worse anyway.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2.1.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  katrix @2.1    4 weeks ago

That is also going on in Iran. I'm not so sure that is the right thing to do with them. 

So how do we handle a situation like in these countries? It never hurts the leadership, only the people. 

 
 
 
katrix
2.1.2  katrix  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.1    4 weeks ago

Just as when we provide aid, it often never gets to the people. I wish I had the answer.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2    4 weeks ago

The United States exploited Central America for many decades. The immigration problem is our karma the same way migration into Europe from Africa is their karma. 

What we should do is everything we can to make Central American countries better places to live. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
2.2.1  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2    4 weeks ago

Where have you been? We already tried that. Wasted how many billions dollars with nothing to show for it. But keep sending money. Money fixes everything.

https://www.apnews.com/0fcda32812024680ad98676379c47233 

10 plus billion dollars in new money and they are still coming.  Probably because they know their governments will waste it; and have to beg for more.

If you are interested here is a web site that shows US foreign aide by country. 

https://explorer.usaid.gov/cd/GTM

 
 
 
Greg Jones
2.2.2  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2    4 weeks ago

What we should do is everything we can to make Central American countries better places to live. 

Another dumb idea that has no practical answer of solution

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
2.3  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2    4 weeks ago

I  have to agree with you here. My only questions would be how and where do draw the line on who is considered a "Dreamer"? Will they set a time limit as to if someone was in the country before a certain date and what would be the cutoff date? Without that, it is a revolving open door.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
2.3.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.3    4 weeks ago

Most of these young people were brought here by their parents as infants and children and have lived here all their lives, been schooled and have jobs here. I realize that they should have applied for citizenship when they realized their status, but I don't think they should be punished for what their parents did, and be deported. Unless they have some criminal history, they should be put on a fast track to citizenship. 

 
 
 
Snuffy
2.3.2  Snuffy  replied to  Greg Jones @2.3.1    4 weeks ago

yep. and Trump offered a path to citizenship for these children along with some other fixes to immigration and was turned down. IMO he's been trying to make deals to help fix the problem but the two party system has gotten to a point where all they will do is fight each other.

 
 
 
Texan1211
3  Texan1211    4 weeks ago

Why do we continue to want to support illegal activities and reward such behaviors?

Wasn't the amnesty under Reagan supposed to solve our illegal alien problems, according to those who were pushing for amnesty then?

basically, we encourage people to break our laws because they can see that we will eventually give in and let them get away with it.

 
 
 
katrix
3.1  katrix  replied to  Texan1211 @3    4 weeks ago

Why don't we get rid of birthright citizenship for people whose parents aren't here legally while we're at it? While I think it was needed for some time, what valid purpose does it serve now?

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
3.1.1  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  katrix @3.1    4 weeks ago

Good question, we have a birth tourism business with people from all over the world traveling here to game our broken system. The southern border of course experiences this daily as women legally visit the us with a day visa to drop an anchor bambino.

It's time to close the easily exploited loopholes.

We have issues we need to address like the homeless crisis. At some point legal citizenship is going to have to matter. We have homeless, vets etc and we need to solve these domestic problems before allowing mass migration to occur.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.1.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @3.1.1    4 weeks ago

BF,

You are talking about something totally different. These are rich foreigners who are hedging their bets in their restrictive countries. I don't think this should be allowed. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
3.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  katrix @3.1    4 weeks ago
Why don't we get rid of birthright citizenship for people whose parents aren't here legally while we're at it? While I think it was needed for some time, what valid purpose does it serve now?

I agree--get rid of it.

I think it was rather stupid from the beginning--become a citizen because your mother managed to get to the US legally OR illegally before popping you out.

 
 
 
katrix
3.1.4  katrix  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.3    4 weeks ago
I think it was rather stupid from the beginning

What about the Native Americans who were here from the beginning, or the slaves who were brought here against their will? That's why I think it had its place at the time.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
3.1.5  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.3    4 weeks ago

Having worked for many years in a rural hospital in AZ right on the AZ/Mexico border, I cannot even begin to tell you how many times I saw women come across the border illegally just drop their anchor babies on our doorstep. It got to the point where they were almost smug about it because they got away with it. One of their first questions as they were discharged was "Which way to the AZ Department of Economic Security?" so they could apply for food stamps and welfare for them and their little bundle of joy. I knew many citizens and legal residents on this side of the line who could not get benefits because they made more that what DES said they allowed to so they could qualify, sometimes by $100.00 a month or less...

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Texan1211 @3    4 weeks ago
Wasn't the amnesty under Reagan supposed to solve our illegal alien problems, according to those who were pushing for amnesty then?

Wait, you mean it was OK for Reagen to give amnesty for the same activities you are complaining about now? Why is that?

These people have been here for years. They work and pay taxes. Their kids know nothing about the country they came from. 

So we are going to punish them for their parent's deeds? And Reagan gets a pass on it, why?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.2.1  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.2    4 weeks ago
Why is that?

May I cut in?

Because that was supposed to be a one time deal - one in which we gave amnesty to those who were here and we secured the border so that it never happened again. The border security simply didn't get done!  

 
 
 
Texan1211
3.2.2  Texan1211  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.2    4 weeks ago

IMO, granting amnesty only encourages more illegal aliens to come here.

They seem to assume that if they are here and living, they are immune to prosecution and should be granted some special rights not afforded those who come here legally.

We reward the children of illegal aliens because their parents broke our laws?

What is the sense in that?

What is the point of having laws if we simply ignore them?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.2.3  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.2.1    4 weeks ago
Because that was supposed to be a one time deal

Says who Vic? Because Reagan decided that? He was not god. And he could have made the appropriate changes at the border and didn't.. so the net result was more crossings. 

I think that it's cruel to send these people back at this time. But I also think we need to secure the border. Both need to be done to be an effective policy. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
3.2.4  Texan1211  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.2    4 weeks ago
And Reagan gets a pass on it, why?

I don't give him a pass on it.

He was fooled by Democrats who promised one thing and delivered another. And now we have many Democrats openly advocating for the breaking of our immigration laws.

Why do Democrats get a pass for their duplicity?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.2.5  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.4    4 weeks ago

When he signed the Immigration Reform and Control Act, he got everything he asked for:

The act required employers to attest to their employees' immigration status and made it illegal to hire or recruit unauthorized immigrants knowingly. The act also legalized certain seasonal agricultural undocumented immigrants as well as undocumented immigrants who entered the United States before January 1, 1982 and had resided there continuously with the penalty of a fine, back taxes due, and admission of guilt; candidates were required to prove that they were not guilty of crimes, that they were in the country before January 1, 1982, and that they possessed at least a minimal knowledge about U.S. history, government, and the English language.[3]

The law established financial and other penalties for those employing undocumented immigrants under the theory that low prospects for employmentwould reduce undocumented immigration. Regulations promulgated under the Act introduced the I-9 form to ensure that all employees presented documentary proof of their legal eligibility to accept employment in the United States.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986

The fact that nowhere in this act, was a way to keep out new immigration falls on Reagen, not the Dems. It didn't provide for that.

So how was he fooled?

The system is broken. It needs to be fixed. I agree that we need to do something about our border, but I am not in favor of expelling people who have only known the US as their home. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.2.6  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.2.3    4 weeks ago

"Republican U.S. Senate candidate Kelli Ward has made the point several times: President Ronald Reagan's "biggest regret" was granting amnesty as part of 1986 immigration-reform legislation and then counting on Congress to secure the border, which never happened."

"The suggestion that Reagan regretted the amnesty law is not new. But previous versions of this story usually attribute the claim to his longtime friend Ed Meese, who served as Reagan's attorney general.


www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2018/02/11/kelli-ward-claims-president-ronald-reagan-regretted-1986-amnesty-law-did-he/1089297001/


I think that it's cruel to send these people back at this time.

I'd let them stay forever, but they can never have citizenship - nor their offspring. There has to be some consequence and that is the correct one

 
 
 
Texan1211
3.2.7  Texan1211  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.2.5    4 weeks ago
The system is broken. It needs to be fixed. I agree that we need to do something about our border, but I am not in favor of expelling people who have only known the US as their home.

Besides an aversion to enforcement, how is it broken?

i always hate when people say the law is broken because so many people are willing to break the law and we have folks willing to support them breaking the law.

What SPECIFICALLY is "broken", and how?

What is the solution--let anyone anytime from anywhere enter, or after failing to catch them entering, allowing them to remain scot-free and eventually reward them with a path to citizenship for breaking our laws?

To me, saying that the law is broken would be akin to saying laws regarding meth use are broken because we have a lot of addicts.

 
 
 
Tacos!
3.2.8  Tacos!  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.7    4 weeks ago
What SPECIFICALLY is "broken", and how?

I will say that one thing I think is broken is that it takes 20+ years for the US to even consider a request for admission for someone wanting to immigrate from Mexico. Even if the answer is "no" we should be able to resolve cases faster than that. That long wait is one reason people just rush the border.

We might be able to improve things if we actually took more people but reduced available benefits.

We could probably also benefit from something like the old worker programs without some expectation of citizenship being handed out.

But yeah, other than that, off the top of my head, I'd say we have a big problem actually enforcing the laws and securing the border. If they come in illegally, they should be kicked out ASAP.

I'm not worried so much about the number of people coming in. I just want to know who they are. I want to make sure they aren't criminals or spreading some exotic disease.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.2.9  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.7    4 weeks ago
What SPECIFICALLY is "broken", and how?

Well for one thing, you can just walk across the border. That is pretty broken.

What is the solution--let anyone anytime from anywhere enter, or after failing to catch them entering, allowing them to remain scot-free and eventually reward them with a path to citizenship for breaking our laws?

Where did I say that? I am not for letting anyone from anywhere to enter. New arrivals upon capture should go back. I am only referring to mulit generationals that we have known about, pay taxes and have lived here for years. That is not a huge amount of people who fit that description. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.2.10  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Tacos! @3.2.8    4 weeks ago

Great post Tacos!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.2.11  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.2.10    4 weeks ago

He is certainly capable. Do you know he reads all the articles that are confined to the group?   He is a reader!

A man with a passion for the printed page!

 
 
 
Texan1211
3.2.12  Texan1211  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.2.9    4 weeks ago
Well for one thing, you can just walk across the border. That is pretty broken.

That it is.

So why the opposition to securing the border and building a wall or fence?

Where did I say that? I am not for letting anyone from anywhere to enter. New arrivals upon capture should go back. I am only referring to mulit generationals that we have known about, pay taxes and have lived here for years. That is not a huge amount of people who fit that description.

I didn't say you said it Perrie. it was a question. Seems way too many people disagree with you about sending them back--even to the point of establishing sanctuary cities, counties, and states.

Multi-generationals? Reagan granted amnesty to almost 3 million illegal aliens. Now we are talking about some 10-20 million (although how anyone can establish a number on people we can somehow count but not stop, I'll never know). I think rewarding those already here simply encourages more to come, knowing that eventually, they, too, will be granted amnesty or simply never be held accountable, especially if they live in one of those sanctuaries.

How's about we secure the border and clean up the visa overstays before we talk about any granting of amnesty.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.2.13  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.7    4 weeks ago

The reason that Mexicans dont have a guilty conscience about entering Texas , California,  New Mexico or Arizona is because all that land was originally Mexico, or Native American. The war with Mexico in 1846 was for the purpose of acquiring their territory through force. Don't you think many Mexicans know that? 

 
 
 
Ender
3.2.14  Ender  replied to  Tacos! @3.2.8    4 weeks ago

IMO streamline the hiring process for border agents. Give them more technology.

I would rather have an infrared camera on the border than a wall.

Top of the list should be working in central American countries to improve the lives of the people there.

Instead of dealing with the aftermath, maybe wonder why they are fleeing to begin with.

 
 
 
Texan1211
3.2.15  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @3.2.13    4 weeks ago
The reason that Mexicans dont have a guilty conscience about entering Texas , California, New Mexico or Arizona is because all that land was originally Mexico, or Native American. The war with Mexico in 1846 was for the purpose of acquiring their territory through force. Don't you think many Mexicans know that?

Oh, FFS.

Do you think the average Mexican coming here illegally gives a damn about that crap?

get real.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.2.16  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.15    4 weeks ago

They dont have to care. It is their justification in their minds. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
3.2.17  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @3.2.16    4 weeks ago

Ridiculous.

And you should know that by now.

 
 
 
Texan1211
3.2.18  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @3.2.16    4 weeks ago
It is their justification in their minds.

Exactly what is the percentage of the illegal alien Mexicans that you know that have talked about that being their justification for coming here?

For that matter, how many illegal alien Mexicans do you actually know and have talked to about it?

I'm betting far less than 20, if any at all.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
3.2.19  livefreeordie  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.2    4 weeks ago

I opposed that amnesty also. It was a error by Reagan

 
 
 
Greg Jones
3.2.20  Greg Jones  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.12    4 weeks ago

We should start NOW to limit amnesty to all who are currently coming to the border, since a large number of these cases are fraudulent, and many of the border jumpers bring kids that are not even theirs. I see no point or intelligence in deporting any one who is gainfully employed, pays their taxes instead of being a drain on the welfare services, or has no criminal history.

Quick action needs to be taken on the Dreamers, but the democrats are doing everything they can to make the situation at the border worse.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
3.2.21  Greg Jones  replied to  Ender @3.2.14    4 weeks ago

Top of the list should be working in central American countries to improve the lives of the people there.

Does that mean sending even more of the taxpayers money to these Central American countries that will probably end up in the pockets of the officials there?

It's not our duty to solve the problems in these countries, we simply don't have the resources.

 
 
 
Ender
3.2.22  Ender  replied to  Greg Jones @3.2.21    4 weeks ago

Yet we have the resources to attack and maintain a presence in other countries.

This would be a better use of resources.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
4  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh    4 weeks ago

Once we can stop using our failed immigration policy as a political issue to defame and slander one another we can actually put forth a common sense solution to this wide open lawless border.

My state just spent close to a Billion of our own resources to deal with the issue in absence of the federal government.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @4    4 weeks ago

I am not opposed to making sure our border is not open. I agree we can't let people in endlessly. 

 
 
 
GaJenn78
4.2  GaJenn78  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @4    4 weeks ago

What happened to immigration? My grandfather came over on a boat, spent a couple months at Ellis. His dad was here for a few years before him to SAVE money and SECURE a residence and sponsor for my grandfather. Back then, everyone coming to America needed $25 in their pockets to be considered. I feel like the current immigration policies are a slap in the face to everyone who did it correctly, now its a "willy nilly" free for all. There was no chain immigration. My great grandfather came over first....spent 12 years here first, securing a home, job, and money before sending for my great grand mother and my grandfather. My grandfather came here in the 7th grade. His name was Ignatious from Czechoslovakia, his first day of school, a little girl stood up, and said "Hes new to our country, his name is Ignatz. We are going to call him Jack and teach him English" And they did! My grandfather was very successful in his American journey in NJ. I honestly feel like it's a slap in the face to immigrants who waited years, like my grandfather did during WWI, while his dad secured a place to live, for people to just get to come in willy nilly. My grandfather didn't get that, he had to wait his damn turn and spend time in Ellis Island with his mom. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
4.2.1  Greg Jones  replied to  GaJenn78 @4.2    4 weeks ago

It appears the problem is more political than anything else. The worst thing the Dems are doing is protecting the criminals amongst these immigrants, legal or otherwise. Everyone should get in line and wait....in Mexico, or their home country. In the days when Ellis Island was operating, immigration was done right.

 
 
 
Tacos!
5  Tacos!    4 weeks ago
“Our asylum system needs to be improved, but the answer is to streamline and strengthen it so that it benefits legitimate claims of those fleeing persecution, while reducing potential for abuse,”

Sounds good. But to do that, you are probably going to have to restrict the conditions that qualify for asylum and/or tighten the rules on how a person may apply. You may have to disqualify some people if they violate those rules. How is that going to go over in his party?

Biden also called for giving U.S. citizenship to the thousands of young undocumented immigrants brought into the country illegally by their parents, saying they are "Americans, and Congress needs to make it official."

I'm for this IF you can find a way to stop people illegally dragging their kids to this country (or making anchor babies) in the future. Otherwise, it is a clear invitation to keep rushing the border with a kid in tow.

he would “focus instead on improving screening procedures at our legal ports of entry and making smart investments in border technology.

"Improving screening procedures" sounds fine, but you can't screen people if they don't go through the legal port of entry. People aren't avoiding the ports of entry because they don't like the screening process. They avoid them because they don't want to wait for approval to enter or they know they won't get that approval.

If you can show us an electronic gizmo that works better and cheaper than a physical barrier, I'm sure the Border Patrol and most of America would be happy to have it. It's not like America has a wall fetish per se. It just so happens that they are pretty effective. I think most Americans would prefer a countryside uncluttered by an unsightly wall or fence. We just want to know the border is as secure as it can reasonably be.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Tacos! @5    4 weeks ago
If you can show us an electronic gizmo that works better and cheaper than a physical barrier, I'm sure the Border Patrol and most of America would be happy to have it. It's not like America has a wall fetish per se. It just so happens that they are pretty effective. I think most Americans would prefer a countryside uncluttered by an unsightly wall or fence. We just want to know the border is as secure as it can reasonably be.

There are better alternatives to walls. Even Israel is trying to reinforce their wall, since they dig under it. Also, everyone is forgetting the Gulf of Mexico as a route in. Build the wall, and they will just reroute. There is better high tech methods to use, but I guess a barrier of some sort is a short term solution. 

Interesting article on this:

https://www.usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2016-04-15/whats-more-effective-than-a-wall-on-the-border

 
 
 
JohnRussell
5.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.1    4 weeks ago

If a wall is built and the numbers of border crossings dont go way down, and by some miracle trump is still president at the time, he will claim that he was forced to accept this result by the Democrats. He will never take responsibility for a damn thing. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
5.1.2  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1.1    4 weeks ago
If a wall is built

But that if is never going to happen. Trump gets to correctly claim that the dems obstructed me all the way. He WINS on that!

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1.1    4 weeks ago
f a wall is built and the numbers of border crossings dont go way down, and by some miracle trump is still president at the time, he will claim that he was forced to accept this result by the Democrats. He will never take responsibility for a damn thing.

Nothing more than idle speculation.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
5.1.4  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1.3    4 weeks ago

No, it's Trump's m.o.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
5.1.5  livefreeordie  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.1    4 weeks ago

Sorry, but your link is both outdated and factually lacking

1.  since it was written we have record border crossings, not record lows

2.  no one has proposed outmoded fence technology such as the writer criticizes.  We want to replace the kind he criticizes

3.  NO ONE including Trump has proposed a border wall along the entire southern border.

4.  The problem with surveillance technology is that it can only detect and report illegal crossings.  That is too late,, especially since the Democrats want them to stay here if they get across

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.1.6  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1.4    4 weeks ago

SMH

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
6  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh    4 weeks ago

I am considering a run for president as a democrat. My big policy issue? I propose reparations for undocumented migrants that are in the country illegally. They had a brutal walk here. If they are gay? They win the lottery.

Who's gonna beat me now?

Take that virtue signalers!

 
 
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