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Tucker Carlson again questions why the US would side with Ukraine over Russia

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  john-russell  •  2 years ago  •  35 comments

Tucker Carlson again questions why the US would side with Ukraine over Russia
"Why is it disloyal to side with Russia but loyal to side with Ukraine?" the Fox News host asked.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



www.msn.com   /en-us/news/world/tucker-carlson-again-questions-why-the-us-would-side-with-ukraine-over-russia/ar-AAT7hWm

Tucker Carlson again questions why the US would side with Ukraine over Russia


2-3 minutes   Invalid Date




  • Carlson questioned why the US would not side with Russia as it appears ready to invade Ukraine.
  • "Why is it disloyal to side with Russia but loyal to side with Ukraine?" the Fox News host asked.
  • Russia is building up troops on Ukraine's border. Governments warn of an imminent invasion.

The Fox News host Tucker Carlson again questioned why the US would side with Ukraine as Russia appears poised to invade the country.

"Why is it disloyal to side with Russia but loyal to side with Ukraine?"   Carlson asked on Monday night . "They're both foreign countries that don't care anything about the United States. Kind of strange."

He said that Ukraine was "strategically irrelevant to the United States. No rational person could defend a war with Russia over Ukraine. Nobody thinks a war like that would make America safer or stronger or more prosperous."

Watch him speak here:

Carlson said that the US needed to focus on its own economy instead, and that China benefits from the US having a conflict with Russia. 



"The Chinese government is the only certain winner here," Carlson said.

The US, Ukraine, and other Western governments say that Russia appears poised to invade Ukraine, and Ukraine says Russia has deployed more than 100,000 troops along the border. Russia says it does not intend to invade.

Carlson has   previously sided   with Russia over Ukraine, saying in December that   Putin was justified   in building up troops along the border. 

The Pentagon says it has 8,500   US troops on "heightened alert"   over the Ukraine-Russia tensions.

Russia seized Ukrainian territory by force in 2014, annexing the Crimean peninsula, and calls the citizens of Russia and Ukraine "one people".

Russia also supports rebels in a war against Ukrainian forces in the eastern Donbas region. More than 13,000 people have died in that fighting.

  




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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  seeder  JohnRussell    2 years ago

I wish I could say this was strange but the far right has been Russia- centric for quite a while now. 

There is a sizable white supremacist movement in Russia and that explains Tucker's affection. 

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
1.1  evilone  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 years ago

If Biden did nothing, or worse, sided with Russa Tucker Carlson and the Rethuglican Populists would call him weak and traitorous. There isn't any consistency here.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
1.1.1  Kavika   replied to  evilone @1.1    2 years ago
There isn't any consistency here.

There isn't much in the way of brains either.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1.1.2  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  evilone @1.1    2 years ago

Being consistently inconsistent has been the Republican mantra ever since Democrats had the audacity to elect a black man to the highest office in the land.  

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
1.1.3  evilone  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.1.2    2 years ago

The beginning of the populists movement on the right can be marked from the rise of the Tea Party. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
1.2  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 years ago
John wrote: "There is a sizable white supremacist movement in Russia and that explains Tucker's affection."

Any facts to support this assertion

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.2.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Greg Jones @1.2    2 years ago

Consider this the last time I answer any of your questions . You do absolutely nothing to provide information to this forum. I do a hundred or a thousand times more than you do. All you do is ask questions and make up crap about the left. 

White Nationalism in the United States and Russia: Transnational Ties, Domestic Impact

29.APR.2021 9:00 AM   .   5 MIN READ
White nationalism   has returned to the spotlight in the United States. Over the last decade, the United States witnessed the startling rise of the alt-right, and 330 deaths in the United States alone could be   attributed   to acts of right-wing extremism. The attack on the US Capitol on January 6, 2021 and the events leading up to it have only highlighted the threat that these groups pose to US democracy.

White nationalist groups in the United States do not operate in a vacuum, however. The transnational connections between such groups—especially between organizations in the United States and Russia—are deeply troubling. In 2004, white supremacist David Duke called Russia the “key to white survival,” while another white supremacist, Richard Spencer,   recently characterized   Russia as the “sole white power in the world.” With Russian President Vladimir Putin serving as a beacon of hope for many white supremacists in the United States, it comes with little surprise that there are connections between the nationalist groups of both of these countries.

The transnational ties between white nationalists pose an important question: how do we curb the threat of violent extremism and its globalization? This article will examine how Russian white-supremacist organizations exert international influence, how extremist groups utilize social media, and how the United States can respond to curb the threat of transnational white supremacy.

The Movement

Based in St. Petersburg, Russia, the   Russian Imperial Movement   (RIM) is an extreme right, white supremacist militant organization. It is also one of the groups working to fuel white supremacy in the West. According to its   spokesperson , RIM aims to “continue to establish contacts with right-wing, traditionalist and conservative organizations around the world to create a ‘Right-wing International.’” This effort has involved both visits by RIM representatives worldwide and social media campaigns aimed at sharing their message with a broader audience. For example, RIM   organized   the World National Conservative Movement (WNCM) in 2015,   convening   white nationalists worldwide against the West and values of liberalism. Aside from organizing these events, RIM representatives have been personally engaged with white nationalists worldwide, including visits to the United States. Such connections go   back   to 2017, when RIM officials visited US white nationalist Matthew Heimbach. Heimbach would go on to be one of the organizers of the 2017 Unite the Right   rally   in Charlottesville, VA.

White Nationalism in the United States and Russia: Transnational Ties, Domestic Impact (harvard.edu)
 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
1.2.2  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @1.2.1    2 years ago

Putin is laughing his ass off at the person that wrote this; and anyone dumb enough to read and believe that he is allowing close ties between the two groups.

Putin might find White Supremacists in the US useful tools; but that is as far as it goes. By the way, he finds BLM, Antifa, Democrats, and our media far more useful tools when it comes to fueling division.

As for Ukraine; tell us all John did Russia or the US back a coup to overthrow a pro Russian duly elected government in Ukraine? What strategic interests does the US have in Ukraine? If Ukraine is so important why did Obama only offer them non lethal aid only; and then sit idly by and allow Russia to annex Crimea? Why isn't Ukraine a part of NATO? Why isn't NATO drawing a line in the sand over Ukraine with Russia? 

Our foreign policy has been stuck on stupid forever. We have been poking the Russian Bear for so damn long; that we finally have overextended ourselves. Now that Putin is poking back we don't know what to do. Especially with the current incompetent ass in the White House.

Meanwhile the real threat China is poised to take Taiwan- that would really mess the US up. It would cripple the world supply of super conductor chips. Xi isn't stupid. The US can't fight both Russia and China at the same time even with NATO's help. Move on Russia and China takes Taiwan. Think our European allies are worried about Russia? Try all of Asia if China takes Taiwan. We don't have a large enough military to deploy in Eastern Europe, and throughout Asia, to protect from Russia and China at the same time.

What is your answer John. Outside of screaming Russian collusion and racism; which sure as hell isn't going to work.

 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.2.3  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Ronin2 @1.2.2    2 years ago

Who should NATO (and thus the US) favor?  Expansionist meddling Russia, or Ukraine?  Why do you think Tucker Carlson is taking Russia's side? 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
1.2.4  Tacos!  replied to  JohnRussell @1.2.3    2 years ago
Why do you think Tucker Carlson is taking Russia's side? 

I think Tucker does it just to be contrarian and draw attention to his show. I don’t think he actually gives a shit one way or the other about Ukraine.

He likes to come out against whatever the Democratic leadership wants to do and he likes to imagine that he is a brave journalist exposing a corrupt and powerful oligarchy.

So if Biden said he thought people should shower everyday, Tucker would do a whole segment on how big government wants to shame and coerce people into being clean, while threatening to punish you if you ask too many questions. The banner would read “Take a bath! Or ELSE!”

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
1.2.5  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Ronin2 @1.2.2    2 years ago
he finds BLM, Antifa, Democrats, and our media far more useful tools when it comes to fueling division

He uses them the same way right wing white nationalists do, as boogey men to scare right wing white conservative Christians into to voting for slimy bigoted scum bags like Donald Trump.

"did Russia or the US back a coup to overthrow a pro Russian duly elected government in Ukraine?"

Russia backed the pro-Russian Putin puppet separatist group in a shady Eastern Ukraine election that both the US and Kiev called illegitimate.

Why do right wing conservatives seemingly love Russia so much that they feel the need to defend them so vociferously?

What strategic interests does the US have in Ukraine?

There are dozens of reasons we would want to have a close relationship with Ukraine and we should fight for their entrance in NATO. Our relationship with Ukraine is a cornerstone in the eastern European region for security, democracy, and human rights on the border of our old enemy Russia who is back to trying to hold the world hostage threatening to invade a neighboring sovereign democratic society with a prosperous market-based economy and financial ally of western Democracy. Russia clearly wants to rebuild their old cold war empire, why would anyone in America want to enable them or defend them in their bloody ambitions?

"the real threat China is poised to take Taiwan- that would really mess the US up."

While China needs to be taken seriously and we should do all we can to protect the sovereignty of Taiwan, the threat and consequence are very different and far less severe than a Russian invasion of Ukraine. There is very little chance of China going on any military offensive against the US and western Democracy allies because that would harm their massive financial ties they have with all the western democracies and wealthy capitalist countries they sell their made in China products to. Russia is clearly the larger threat because financially they have little to lose, their GDP is smaller than that of California, invading Ukraine and getting hit with sanctions is barely going to effect them since their trade with the rest of the world is relatively small compared to many other western countries and China, and their resource gains from taking over Ukraine would outweigh any losses.

"We don't have a large enough military to deploy in Eastern Europe, and throughout Asia, to protect from Russia and China at the same time."

Again, China doesn't want a war with the west, we are their biggest customers and fattest consumers. Do they want to steal intellectual property? Yes, of course they do, all for the profits. Do they want to take back Taiwan which they've always considered part of China? Yes, and again they see it as a profit opportunity as well as a symbolic achievement but it certainly won't be some huge all out war because that would cause the rest of the world to stop buying Chinese goods and they know it.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
1.2.6  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @1.2.3    2 years ago

US should have stayed the fuck out of Ukraine; but flipping former Soviet border countries has become the vogue for the past several presidents before Trump.

Carlson isn't taking Russia's side. He is taking the US side that says Taiwan is far more important than Ukraine. The US doesn't have the resources to defend both; so take care of Taiwan.

He is also saying China is a far bigger threat than Russia- which they are. To use Obama's own words against him. 

Biden needs to stop pretending this is still the 80's.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
1.2.7  Ronin2  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.2.5    2 years ago
He uses them the same way right wing white nationalists do, as boogey men to scare right wing white conservative Christians into to voting for slimy bigoted scum bags like Donald Trump.

Putin used Trump to get the US to elect the single worst President ever in Brandon. Both he and China are taking full advantage of that folly.

Russia backed the pro-Russian Putin puppet separatist group in a shady Eastern Ukraine election that both the US and Kiev called illegitimate. Why do right wing conservatives seemingly love Russia so much that they feel the need to defend them so vociferously?

You don't think US/NATO wasn't backing the pro Western candidate? What planet are you from? Of course the US and Kiev called the election illegitimate- the candidate they wanted lost! Russia would have done the same damn thing if the pro Western candidate won.

So, thinking that we shouldn't be in Ukraine; which holds no strategic value what-so-ever is being pro Russian? Why is it good that we are propping up a Ukrainian government that is filled with Fascists?

Why do leftists have such a dysfunction with Russia? There is a far bigger threat to the world than Russia. Xi in China couldn't ask for more willing dupes than Democrats and the left. Have fun when China controls semi and super conductor chip after they take Taiwan. See how far the military, automakers, and the tech industry gets.

There are dozens of reasons we would want to have a close relationship with Ukraine and we should fight for their entrance in NATO. Our relationship with Ukraine is a cornerstone in the eastern European region for security, democracy, and human rights on the border of our old enemy Russia who is back to trying to hold the world hostage threatening to invade a neighboring sovereign democratic society with a prosperous market-based economy and financial ally of western Democracy. Russia clearly wants to rebuild their old cold war empire, why would anyone in America want to enable them or defend them in their bloody ambitions?

BS and more BS. NATO doesn't want Ukraine- otherwise they would already be a member. Ukraine is as dysfunctional and corrupt governmental wise as Afghanistan. Someone should tell Ukraine how great they are doing economically- it would be news to them.

Top 10 Poorest Countries in Europe (by 2020 GNI per capita, Atlas method, current US$)*

  1. Ukraine - $3,540
  2. Georgia - $4,290
  3. Kosovo (partially recognized) - $4,440
  4. Moldova - $4,570
  5. Albania - $5,210
  6. North Macedonia - $5,720
  7. Bosnia And Herzegovina - $6,090
  8. Belarus - $6,330
  9. Serbia - $7,400
  10. Montenegro - $7,900

Top 10 Poorest Countries in Europe (by 2020 GDP per capita, Atlas method, current US$)**

  1. Ukraine - $3,727
  2. Georgia - $4,279
  3. Kosovo (partially recognized) - $4,287
  4. Moldova - $4,551
  5. Albania - $5,215
  6. North Macedonia - $5,888
  7. Bosnia And Herzegovina - $6,032
  8. Belarus - $6,411
  9. Serbia - $7,666
  10. Montenegro - $7,686

1. Ukraine

With a per capita GNI of $3,540, Ukraine is the poorest country in Europe as of 2020. Ukraine once had the second-largest economy in the USSR. However, when the USSR collapsed, Ukraine had difficulty transitioning into a market economy, which sent much of the population into poverty. Some of Ukraine's continuing issues contributing to its poverty are government corruption, Russian aggression (specifically Russia's illegal seizure of Crimea in 2014), and weak infrastructure.

You were saying. Is it any wonder Ukraine's government is corrupt, shaky, and weak? They are a great success story for the west. No wonder NATO doesn't want them; they would make a wonderful anchor and financial drag.

While China needs to be taken seriously and we should do all we can to protect the sovereignty of Taiwan, the threat and consequence are very different and far less severe than a Russian invasion of Ukraine. There is very little chance of China going on any military offensive against the US and western Democracy allies because that would harm their massive financial ties they have with all the western democracies and wealthy capitalist countries they sell their made in China products to. Russia is clearly the larger threat because financially they have little to lose, their GDP is smaller than that of California, invading Ukraine and getting hit with sanctions is barely going to effect them since their trade with the rest of the world is relatively small compared to many other western countries and China, and their resource gains from taking over Ukraine would outweigh any losses.

Xi would like to thank you for not taking China seriously. He will be laughing hysterically when the world has to come crawling to him for semi and super conductors. 

  • Taiwan dominates the foundry market, or the outsourcing of semiconductor manufacturing.
  • Much of that dominance comes down to TSMC, the world’s largest foundry that counts major technology firms such as Apple, Qualcomm and Nvidia as its clients.

Taiwan’s outsized role in chipmaking has come under the spotlight as a global shortage of semiconductors forced several automakers to halt production.

Countries including the U.S. and Germany reached out to Taiwan to help alleviate bottlenecks in the production of chips. The shortage was a result of increased demand for electronics during the Covid-19 pandemic,and was exacerbated by former President Donald Trump’s trade war with China.

Taiwan dominates the foundry market, or the outsourcing of semiconductor manufacturing. Its contract manufacturers together accounted for more than 60% of total global foundry revenue last year, according to data by Taipei-based research firm TrendForce.

Much of Taiwan’s dominance can be attributed to Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co or TSMC, the world’s largest foundry that counts major technology firms such as Apple , Qualcomm and Nvidia as its clients. TSMC accounted for 54% of total foundry revenue globally last year, TrendForce data showed.

Semiconductors are critical components that power electronics from computers and smartphones to the brake sensors in cars. The production of chips involves a complex network of firms that design or make them, as well as those that supply the technology, materials and machinery to do so.  

TSMC focuses solely on manufacturing and has been the go-to producer for many cutting-edge semiconductors, Dan Wang, a technology analyst at research firm Gavekal, said in a podcast by Singapore’s DBS bank.  

“So TSMC, if you just have a look at market share, I believe manufactures around 50% of all semiconductors in the world. And I think that still understates how important it is, because these are some of the most advanced chips out there,” said Wang.

Semiconductor designers and manufacturers are on a quest to make chips smaller and better. Currently, TSMC and its South Korean rival Samsung are the only foundries capable of manufacturing the most advanced 5-nanometer chips.

TSMC is already gearing up for the next-generation 3-nanometer chips, that will reportedly start production in 2022.

Please, stay far, far away from any position that involves foreign policy; we already have more than enough dumbasses in the current administration.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
1.2.8  Krishna  replied to  Greg Jones @1.2    2 years ago
Any facts to support this assertion

Yes!

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2  Trout Giggles    2 years ago

So Russia's justification in invading Ukraine is that they are one people??? I thought each country had its own ethnicity?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
3  Sean Treacy    2 years ago

It's interesting that some are more upset with a talk show host arguing for neutrality than the President of the US telling Putin a minor invasion is okay.  But these are the same people who demonize the filibuster and then turn around minutes later and use it to protect Putin's pipeline.  

I don't agree with the Carlson/Obama position on Russian invasions.  We should, like Trump did, send defensive weaponry to Ukraine and do we everything we can short of committing our own troops to help Ukraine.  But Biden's signaling about what level of invasion is acceptable makes deterrence hard, if not impossible. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @3    2 years ago

The foreign policy expert Richard Haas was interviewed on tv this morning and he was asked this exact question. Why should we favor Ukraine over Russia? He answered very simply. Ukraine is trying to be more open and democratic and is headed in the right direction. Russia is not. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
3.1.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    2 years ago
Why should we favor Ukraine over Russia? He answered very simply. Ukraine is trying to be more open and democratic and is headed in the right direction. Russia is not. 

I agree. The Trump position on defending Ukraine was a major improvement over Obamas for those reasons. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3.2  Tacos!  replied to  Sean Treacy @3    2 years ago
But Biden's signaling about what level of invasion is acceptable makes deterrence hard, if not impossible. 

Yeah, I think it maybe doesn’t help. However, if NATO countries are going to keep sending arms to Ukraine, that’s going to make taking over that country a long, expensive, and painful process for Russia.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
3.2.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Tacos! @3.2    2 years ago
if NATO countries are going to keep sending arms to Ukraine, that’s going to make taking over that country a long, expensive, and painful process for Russia

It would be nice if Germany got the memo on that. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
3.2.2  Ronin2  replied to  Tacos! @3.2    2 years ago

It depends on the weapons they are sending; and if Ukraine has troops that are trained to use them.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
3.2.3  Krishna  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.2.1    2 years ago
It would be nice if Germany got the memo on that. 

It would be even nicer if Putin decided not to invade!

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
3.2.4  Krishna  replied to  Tacos! @3.2    2 years ago
Yeah, I think it maybe doesn’t help. However, if NATO countries are going to keep sending arms to Ukraine, that’s going to make taking over that country a long, expensive, and painful process for Russia.

Some people are saying we shouldn't support Ukraines (by sending American troops, inevitably resulting Americans dying or being severely wounded).

But we can effectively support them without doing that-- we should greatly step up our weapons supplies and the training of Ukrainian troops).

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
3.3  Krishna  replied to  Sean Treacy @3    2 years ago
We should, like Trump did, send defensive weaponry to Ukraine

If that was so effective...how come Russia may soon invade???

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.3.1  Texan1211  replied to  Krishna @3.3    2 years ago
.how come Russia may soon invade???

Because perhaps that is what Russian wants to do. 

I'm sure Biden has learned to draw a red line after serving as VP. and can attest to the effectiveness of doing so.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
4  Tacos!    2 years ago
"They're both foreign countries that don't care anything about the United States. Kind of strange."

Well that’s the root of your problem, right there. They are not both countries that don’t care anything about the United States. Ukraine might be, but Russia clearly cares a great deal about what the United States is up to. They have spent decades trying to fuck with the US and our allies. 

What’s more, we’re much closer to being a kind of ideological kindred spirit with Ukraine. The Russian government rules by force and oppression while Ukraine has an elected president and a parliament. They’re not yet a full on western-type democracy, but they are far more democratic than Russia. We tend to make friends with countries like that.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
4.1  Krishna  replied to  Tacos! @4    2 years ago
They’re not yet a full on western-type democracy, but they are far more democratic than Russia.

BTW that's why Trump was so pro-Russian-- he loved autocratic rulers!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  Krishna @4.1    2 years ago
BTW that's why Trump was so pro-Russian--

be sure to not to ever vote for Trump again.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
4.1.2  Krishna  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.1    2 years ago
be sure to not to ever vote for Trump again

Does that also apply...even if he isn't running?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  Krishna @4.1.2    2 years ago
Does that also apply...even if he isn't running?

Sure it does--and also whatever it takes to get him out of your head!

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
4.1.4  Krishna  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.3    2 years ago
Sure it does--and also whatever it takes to get him out of your head!

Could that maybe...even possibly..be the same thing it takes to get Biden out of your head?

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
4.1.5  Krishna  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.3    2 years ago
Sure it does--and also whatever it takes to get him out of your head!

What makes you think Trump is no longer newsworthy?

Why are you so sure he won't ever be the Republican candidate for President-- or so certain he'll never again run for office...and never again have any sort of following??

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.6  Texan1211  replied to  Krishna @4.1.4    2 years ago
Could that maybe...even possibly..be the same thing it takes to get Biden out of your head?

Possibly--IF I am weak enough to let Biden live rent-free in my head way after he leaves office.

Which simply won't happen.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.7  Texan1211  replied to  Krishna @4.1.5    2 years ago
What makes you think Trump is no longer newsworthy?

Not what I wrote--clearly to anyone bothering to read.

What makes you think Trump is relevant to what Biden does or what Russia does?

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
4.2  Krishna  replied to  Tacos! @4    2 years ago
We tend to make friends with countries like that.

I agree but would modify that a bit. Traditionally we did. And even today many Americans feel that way.

But Trump's views (and actions!) were just the opposite-- he preferred to make friends with autocratic (undemocratic countries)! Russia, the Philapines, Hungary, etc.

 
 

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