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An AR-15 designed for children shocks even the most jaded gun-control advocates

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  hal-a-lujah  •  2 years ago  •  98 comments

By:   Talib Visram

An AR-15 designed for children shocks even the most jaded gun-control advocates
The toll of giving kids more access to firearms is grave. Mass shootings aside, there’s been an increase in accidental shootings at home during the pandemic: From March through December 2020, there were 31% more accidental gun deaths than in the same period in 2019. Yet, gun manufacturers and lobbyists seem intent to market guns like skateboards or energy drinks—as a perfectly reasonable decision, as if guns are “some sort of talismanic object to guide them on the road to maturity,”

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



Four years ago this week, in one of the deadliest mass shootings in memory, 17 people were shot and killed by a 19-year-old gunman at a high school in Parkland, Florida. The tragedy spurred a revitalized gun reform movement led by a new generation, with youth coalitions like March For Our Lives calling for common-sense gun legislation. Still, school shootings continue to rise: Between August and December 2021, there were 136 instances of gunfire on school grounds, the highest rate in a 5-month period since the advocacy group Everytown for Gun Safety began tracking it in 2013. And 70% of school shooters, many of whom have easy home access to weapons , are under the age of 18.

Given this backdrop of ever-increasing gun violence, and especially by young perpetrators, the release of a new rifle directly marketed to kids has astonished even gun-reform experts who have followed the industry’s aggressive targeting of children for years. They say this new firearm, overtly advertised as a kids’ version of the AR-15—the style of rifle used in 11 of the 12 most high-profile mass shootings, including Sandy Hook and Las Vegas—is the most brazen example of such targeted firearms marketing they’ve ever seen. The move is part of a trend by an unstable gun industry in a volatile market to target new potential consumers, but it’s also motivated by a rise of political extremism.


Last month, the JR-15, or Junior 15, debuted at the SHOT Show , billed as the nation’s largest annual trade show for the sport shooting, hunting, and outdoor industry. The event is organized by the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF), a firearms industry trade association. The rifle is manufactured by WEE1 Tactical , an offshoot of Schmid Tool and Engineering, which has sold AR-15 components for 30 years. A November press release from WEE1 specifically notes the JR-15’s appeal to children: “Our vision is to develop a line of shooting platforms that will safely help adults introduce children to the shooting sports,” it reads. To do that, it’s built a gun whose “ergonomics are geared towards children” : it’s lighter than an adult version, at 2.2 pounds, 20% smaller, and with a patented safety mechanism, not standard on AR-15s, which needs to be pulled out “with some force” and rotated before it can fire. Slight tweaks aside, the company boasts that it “operates just like Mom and Dad’s gun.”

BABY’S FIRST AR-15


“There’s been youth shooting guns for 80 years, but there’s never been a youth AR-15,” says Ryan Busse, a former firearms executive, now senior advisor at Giffords, one of the leading gun violence-prevention groups, cofounded by former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords. “I’ve never seen one that’s just an egregiously tactical, offensive weapon of war,” adds Busse, author of  Gunfight , a book that discusses the extremist radicalization of the industry.

The JR-15 is a .22 caliber rifle, meaning it takes bullets of  a .22-inch diameter; .22 caliber rifles are common as starter rifles because their shots are slightly slower than the cartridges used in an AR-15, with lower recoil—less painful for little shoulders. But, says Busse, to tout a .22 as safe is a myth. (The NRA brushes it off as never “a hard-hitter.”) It’s still a semi-automatic rifle that most would consider an assault weapon. “Believe me, you do not want to get shot with a .22,” he says. “To say that they’re nonlethal—that’s a joke.”

Specifications aside, the appeal to children is clear: WEE1’s colorful logo comprises two skulls, depicted as a little boy and girl, sucking on pacifiers, and with a gun target over one eye. The branding “keeps the wow factor with the kids,” it says on the site; the logos come on glow-in-the-dark children’s baseball caps, too.

Gun manufacturers have sold semiautomatic rifles targeted to kids in the past. Josh Sugarmann, founder and executive director of Violence Policy Center, a gun control advocacy group, published a study in 2016 called “Start Them Young.”  It lays out a whole list of past examples, including a Smith & Wesson M&P .22 rifle (M&P stands for Military and Police) made in vibrant colors, like pink platinum and harvest-moon orange. Another company, Marlin, made a model that NRA Family praised , writing in 2014: “These rifles are not just sized for kids—they’re completely designed for kids.”

But Sugarmann says WEE1 is more aggressively targeting kids with a product that’s explicitly a starter AR-15. “That’s something we’ve never seen before,” he says. “I think what makes the WEE1 JR-15 really just so horrific is the fact that it’s selling the quiet part out loud. There’s no shame.” (WEE1 did not respond to a request for an interview.)

A NEW GENERATION OF CONSUMERS—AND PATRIOTS


Though less visible to the public than the NRA, the NSSF is also a critical influence in the gun industry; it outpaced the NRA in lobbying dollars by more than double in 2020. (The NSSF also did not reply to an interview request.) Both groups want to increase revenue for an industry whose long-term health is rocky. Though sales are rising , the purchase peaks and valleys are consistently dependent on demographic and political shifts , and the rate of gun ownership has been decreasing over decades. Clearly, the industry feels a pressure to appeal to new potential consumers.

It’s an increasingly difficult task in a modern America, even with rising gun violence. More families used to teach children to hunt; nowadays, “getting up early and sitting in duck blind” is not the norm for kids, Sugarmann says. In 1997, 33% of households had hunters , down to 17% in 2018. That also means a decline in gun ownership, of 32% in that period. So the industry has carved out other routes to drive up sales: focusing more on self-defense, protection of freedoms, and targeting youths—in an effort to secure the next generation of political pro-gun advocates.

Busse believes this shift is motivated as much by politics as for a desire to reach a new demographic. “It’s a MAGA hat,” he says. “It’s a thing to show that your kids are going to be patriotic, too.” He says it’s similar to parents taking kids to a Trump rally. He views the attachment to that weapon as a sign of extremism: Before the early 2000s, he says trade shows would never have had AR-15s on display, let alone junior versions. One big factor for that: The 1994 assault weapons ban covered many kinds of semiautomatic rifles including the AR-15; the law expired in 2004.

The toll of giving kids more access to firearms is grave. Mass shootings aside, there’s been an increase in accidental shootings at home during the pandemic: From March through December 2020, there were 31% more accidental gun deaths than in the same period in 2019. Yet, gun manufacturers and lobbyists seem intent to market guns like skateboards or energy drinks—as a perfectly reasonable decision, as if guns are “some sort of talismanic object to guide them on the road to maturity,” Sugarmann says. Gun groups say training and safety programs , like the NRA’s “ Eddie Eagle ,” help reduce accidental deaths; various studies on these programs conclude quite the opposite. Still, WEE1 expresses that very sentiment: “We believe that this introduction early on will produce a deep respect for firearms that continue and last for a lifetime of safety!” the website reads.

In addition to common-sense gun legislation, safe storage education, and other efforts, Sugarmann says that it’s paramount people open their eyes to what the gun industry is really trying to do. “Think about it for a moment,” he says. “Here’s a company that’s marketing child assault rifles, openly and clearly, without a hint of any second thought.”



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Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1  seeder  Hal A. Lujah    2 years ago

Disgusting.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1  devangelical  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1    2 years ago

based on the recent sandy hook settlement, I would assume that the actuaries of insurance carriers will be taking a long hard look at the marketing of gun manufacturers they're involved with. 

 
 
 
goose is back
Junior Guide
1.2  goose is back  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1    2 years ago

Just curious do you bitch about the thousands of violent games a kid can download on their phones or the music that promotes violence against police and women.  

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1.2.1  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  goose is back @1.2    2 years ago

What’s with all the idiotic deflections?  Don’t you have anything to say that deals with the seed topic?

 
 
 
goose is back
Junior Guide
1.2.2  goose is back  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.2.1    2 years ago
What’s with all the idiotic deflections?  

Oh my bad, thought you were concerned about children.

 
 
 
zuksam
Junior Silent
1.3  zuksam  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1    2 years ago

They've been selling tactical style BB and Pellet guns for years. A scary shape and dark color doesn't make a gun any more dangerous.  

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1.3.1  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  zuksam @1.3    2 years ago

This isn’t a BB gun or a pellet gun.  [deleted deflection noted.]

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.3.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.3.1    2 years ago

My cousin lost an eye playing with a bb gun

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Participates
1.3.3  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.3.2    2 years ago

Is his name Ralphie?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.3.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @1.3.3    2 years ago

lol!

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
1.3.5  Split Personality  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.3.2    2 years ago

One of our family friends was shot behind the ear by a friend trying to clear a jammed rifle.

Went home, went to bed, woke up months later after coming out of his coma, paralyzed, bed ridden,

died about 3 years later from complications, 

Total waste.

 
 
 
Transyferous Rex
Freshman Quiet
1.3.6  Transyferous Rex  replied to  Split Personality @1.3.5    2 years ago

That's sad, and frustrating, to hear. I know a guy that accidentally killed his friend, by being a dumbass. Pointing a gun at someone, and pulling the trigger. Didn't think it was loaded. That's a "never should've happened" event, and goes back to safe handing of firearms. 

Also have a friend that has a grandmother still walking around, because she shot a guy, while on the phone with 911, after he broke through her front door. 

My problem with the gun debate is that the AR is being arbitrarily demonized. Sheila Jackson, from Texas, includes bullshit stats in all of the bills she promotes, all refutable by the information and data the FBI compiles and makes public. At the end of the day, the stats are what they are. All rifles, which includes but is not limited to ARs, generally account, annually, for less than any other means of homicide tracked by the FBI (shotguns run right around the same). Handguns are used in roughly 20 times more homicides. Yet, ARs are still proclaimed to be the "weapon of choice." Patently false claim. Hands and feet, statistically, are used to kill twice as many people as rifles are annually. Think about that. Our legislators are demonizing a thing that is involved in half as many homicides as nothing....no weapon. This is Animal Farm, "two legs bad, four legs good" bullshit. We have volumes of bills and legislation devoted to detachable magazines, flash suppressors, forward grips, barrel or hand guards, etc., all aimed to curtail the use of something that makes up only a fraction of the least used category (rifle) of implements used in homicides. Bottom line, there are larger threats to our society, our well being, our safety, but our elected officials are going after the thing that will have, literally, the least amount of impact on any of that. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.4  Jack_TX  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1    2 years ago
Disgusting.

*eyeroll*

They're making a smaller, lighter gun...just like they make smaller and lighter golf clubs, tennis rackets, bows & arrows, fishing rods, footballs, shoulder pads, football helmets, bicycles, motorcycles, go carts, baseball bats & gloves, basketballs, and soccer balls....to name a few.

It's the end of civilization.  Run for your lives.  

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1.4.1  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Jack_TX @1.4    2 years ago

Run for your lives.  

Yeah, there’s an immature six year old with a tennis racket.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
1.4.2  Ronin2  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.4.1    2 years ago

Ever been hit by an immature 6 year old wielding a to scale aluminum baseball bat? Now those should be illegal. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
2  Jeremy Retired in NC    2 years ago

oH NO!!!!!  The feared AR-15 scaled down!  The horror!!!!  Where was this when I was growing up?  As a kid, I had a hell of a time trying to get a good firing position with my father's rifle.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @2    2 years ago

“From March through December 2020, there were 31% more accidental gun deaths than in the same period in 2019.”

That you would cheerlead for this comes as no surprise.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
2.1.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1    2 years ago

There is no such thing as an "accidental shooting / gun death" or what ever excuse you want to attach to it.  They are all born out of pure negligence.  To call them "accidental" is offering a way out for such bullshit to continue and a lack of accountability and responsibility.  

I'm all for accountability and responsibility.  Don't confuse your fear of guns for my intent.  The FIRST time I saw a gun owner being held accountable come out of a negligent shooting was the shooting in Detroit.  I'm glad those parent were convicted of involuntary manslaughter and fined.  That's exactly what should have happened.  Not this bullshit of calling it an "accidental shooting" like the child who FOUND the gun in the car and pulled the trigger.

Look at the vision the company published in the article.  They clearly state the intent. 

“Our vision is to develop a line of shooting platforms that will safely help adults introduce children to the shooting sports,” 

I see their statement as favoring safety and training (that accountability and responsibility I mentioned).  That is what I'm "cheerleading" for.  But, no, the jackasses in the anti-gun world, all they see is "AR-15" and they go batshit crazy.  

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.2  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @2.1.1    2 years ago

So if I manufacture rat poison and put sponge bob on the wrapper, it is responsible so long as I make the laughable claim that my goal is to end accidental poisoning of children?  What kind of fucking idiot thinks a real gun should have advertising like this?  You, apparently.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
2.1.3  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.2    2 years ago
So if I manufacture rat poison

This isn't about rat poison.  It's about firearms.  

What kind of fucking idiot thinks a real gun should have advertising like this?

Apparently their advertisers.  Just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean that it's wrong.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.4  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @2.1.3    2 years ago

Apparently their advertisers.  Just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean that it's wrong.

There are completely logical rules about targeting children with advertising for cigarettes and vapes, and packaging for marijuana edibles.  What logic is there to putting pacifiers, pigtails, and child skulls with targets on the eye sockets on a gun package?  Something tells me that Remington won’t be going this direction.  They’ll find another way to further saturate this country with their deadly inventory without risking another lawsuit.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
2.1.5  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.4    2 years ago
There are completely logical rules about targeting children with advertising for cigarettes and vapes, and packaging for marijuana edibles

Then petition for restrictions on advertising firearms.  Although I don't recall seeing a commercial for a firearm since the early 80's.  Remember, vapes, cigarettes and alcohol were never advertised to draw in children.  But here we are in 2022, children are some of the biggest demographic using them.

What logic is there to putting pacifiers, pigtails, and child skulls with targets on the eye sockets on a gun package?

Advertising.  

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
3  charger 383    2 years ago

I would like an AR-15 that shoots .22 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1  devangelical  replied to  charger 383 @3    2 years ago

as a kid, I honed my marksmanship skills in prairie dog infested pastures with a marlin .22LR marlin semi-auto with a 19 shot magazine. I spent a lot of time reloading.

 
 
 
goose is back
Junior Guide
3.1.1  goose is back  replied to  devangelical @3.1    2 years ago
.22LR marlin semi-auto with a 19 shot magazine. 

Wouldn't that firearm be illegal in California?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1.2  devangelical  replied to  goose is back @3.1.1    2 years ago

... not 60 years ago. got any more deflections?

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
3.2  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  charger 383 @3    2 years ago

Are you under 10 years old?  This is not the weapon you are seeking.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
3.2.1  charger 383  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.2    2 years ago

I would have like to have one back then, we had an old .22 that held several bullets, but that got traded 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
3.2.2  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  charger 383 @3.2.1    2 years ago

If my grandsons had this thing at least one of them would be dead on day one.  The packaging makes it look like a super soaker, and they would probably treat it like one.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3.2.3  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.2.2    2 years ago
If my grandsons had this thing at least one of them would be dead on day one.

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.2.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.2.2    2 years ago
The packaging makes it look like a super soaker

That's what it is! I was trying to figure out what this gun looked like and that's exactly it. They've turned real weapons into toys. What have we heard all our lives? Guns are not toys

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
3.2.5  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  charger 383 @3.2.1    2 years ago

I did too. Held 13 bullets in the stock. It was a bolt action

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
3.2.6  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @3.2.3    2 years ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3.2.7  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.2.6    2 years ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.2.8  Tessylo  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.2.6    2 years ago

jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
3.2.9  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @3.2.7    2 years ago

My kids would never be stupid enough to buy their kids something that can easily end their life or the life of anyone around them.  Kids are also immature - because they are kids.  If adults kill people by “negligent” discharges from guns, just imagine what kids are capable of.

I asked for a BB gun when I was a kid, and my parents told me no way.  Did I whine and cry like a little bitch?  No.  I shrugged it off and found different hobbies.  The notion that kids need guns in their lives is pathetic.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3.2.10  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.2.9    2 years ago

That wasn't my statement but lets run with it.  

Kids are also immature - because they are kids.

That is where being a parent is more important than being their friend.  

If adults kill people by “negligent” discharges from guns, just imagine what kids are capable of.

Actually kids can accomplish many things if adults teach the properly.  This also means doing what's right. Not something many adults know anything about.

The notion that kids need guns in their lives is pathetic.  

That's your opinion.  I have no problem with that.  Even if my opinion is different.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
3.2.11  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @3.2.10    2 years ago

Actually kids can accomplish many things if adults teach the properly.  This also means doing what's right. Not something many adults know anything about.

I used to collect articles about people who got killed from an accidental gun discharge, but it got to be too much work to keep up with.  You claim that it’s just a negligent adult that had no business owning a gun to begin with, but some were law enforcement officers, seasoned life long hunters, parents mistaking their kid for a burglar, etc etc.  I work with a girl who recently had to have her wall repaired because her neighbor shot through the wall of their townhome while cleaning his gun.  She was home with her newborn when it happened.  Accidents happen to everyone and you don’t get to waive away certain ones as strictly negligence just to bolster you own personal obsession with guns.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3.2.12  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.2.11    2 years ago
You claim that it’s just a negligent adult that had no business owning a gun to begin with, but some were law enforcement officers, seasoned life long hunters, parents mistaking their kid for a burglar, etc etc.

No where did I claim that it's all 100% preventable.  Things do happen.  Failure to maintain control of a firearm does not make something accidental.  It makes it negligence.  Regardless if its law enforcement officers, seasoned life long hunters, parents mistaking their kid for a burglar.  Somebody is negligent in securing a firearm or not being fully aware of their surroundings.

I work with a girl who recently had to have her wall repaired because her neighbor shot through the wall of their townhome while cleaning his gun

That is exactly the negligence I am referring to.  Her neighbor was negligent to ensure the weapon was safe and activated the firing mechanism.  Alex Baldwin is another example of negligence.  He was negligent to ensure the weapon was in a safe status before he pulled the trigger.

Accidents happen to everyone and you don’t get to waive away certain ones as strictly negligence just to bolster you own personal obsession with guns.

Sorry,  there is no "accident's" when it comes to firearms.  It's all negligence.  That is the root cause of the whole problem.  There are some people who can barely tie their own shoes let alone handle a firearm.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
3.2.13  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @3.2.12    2 years ago

No accidents when it comes to firearms, only accidents for everything but firearms - got it.  Good thing we have you here to redefine reality for us.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
3.2.14  Jack_TX  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.2.9    2 years ago
My kids would never be stupid enough to buy their kids something that can easily end their life or the life of anyone around them.

Like a car, just to name one example.....

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3.2.15  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.2.13    2 years ago
No accidents when it comes to firearms, only accidents for everything but firearms - got it

That's your assumption not mine.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
3.2.16  Ronin2  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.2.9    2 years ago
My kids would never be stupid enough to buy their kids something that can easily end their life or the life of anyone around them. Kids are also immature - because they are kids.  If adults kill people by “negligent” discharges from guns, just imagine what kids are capable of.

Parents are responsible for training their kids to use firearms responsibly. If you didn't notice the safety measure install on the gun. Not too many kids are going to have the strength to release the safety mechanism on the gun to enable it for use. If an adult is stupid enough to let their kid misuse any gun in their possession, then they deserve all of the legal ramifications that come with it. 

I asked for a BB gun when I was a kid, and my parents told me no way.  Did I whine and cry like a little bitch?  No.  I shrugged it off and found different hobbies.  The notion that kids need guns in their lives is pathetic.

That is the great thing about freedom and individuality. Not all parents are the same; and not all kids are the same. If parents want to teach their kids how to shoot, or hunt,  responsibly that is their right. You must have been a very unique kid. My parents wouldn't let me get a bb gun; so I used all of my friends guns- including a 22 used for killing chipmunks, squirrels, possums, and rabbits (your basic pests that there are way too many of in the suburbs). Outside of a few thousand plastic army men not one person was maimed or injured. We weren't exactly what you would call mature; but there was always at least one grown up around- and the threat of having any gun (even a bb gun) permanently taken away was enough to make everyone behave. I never had formal training with a weapon until I used my friend's nickel plated Berettas in college; even then he wouldn't let me unload or load them. Not that he didn't trust me; but those were his babies. Several thousand more plastic army died during those sessions; and neither of us ever suffered so much as a scratch. He was even drinking beer during these shooting contests (gasp, the horror).

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.3  Sparty On  replied to  charger 383 @3    2 years ago

22 Conversion kits are available for some regular evil black guns.

 
 
 
TTGA
Professor Silent
3.4  TTGA  replied to  charger 383 @3    2 years ago
I would like an AR-15 that shoots .22 

Try Citadel Arms.  Frankly, I think that the AR platform is a piece of crap (not nearly enough long range accuracy), but Citadel also makes a very good .22 LR copy of the M-1 Carbine.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
3.5  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  charger 383 @3    2 years ago

i got the conversion kit for my AR from cenier , its fun .

So fun i got one for my 1911 too

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
3.6  cjcold  replied to  charger 383 @3    2 years ago

I own a .22 conversion kit for AR-15s. It is simply a drop-in bolt and a magazine.

Barrel twist doesn't seem to matter. It is equally accurate in 17 or 19 twist rates.

Great for inexpensive target practice and harvesting small game that a .223 would shred.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
3.6.1  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  cjcold @3.6    2 years ago

Thats why i got mine , cost effectiveness for practice , that and since its the same gun be it 22 or 223 , the triggerpull is the same , no matter what one shoots , only difference is recoil .

 and that was another reason i also got the conversion for the 1911 , cost effectiveness for practice using the same trigger assembly for both 22 and 45 , only difference was recoil . it let me build muscle memory when i was competing cheaper using the exact same trigger assembly for both . 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4  Sparty On    2 years ago

Funny, I don’t remember any outrage over our toy guns or our kids toy guns.

I guess folks are just more triggered these days .....pun intended for our liberal friends here who won’t “get it”

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
4.1  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Sparty On @4    2 years ago

384

Do toy guns shoot real bullets?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.1.1  Sparty On  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @4.1    2 years ago

Well, this gun isn’t a toy but the point was even toy guns are targeted by the triggered.

 I’m comfortable letting parents make decisions like this for their own kids.    Much more comfortable that some elected putz.    Especially the one getting elected today. 

On this I’m sure we don’t agree

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
4.1.2  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Sparty On @4.1.1    2 years ago

Well, this gun isn’t a toy but the point was even toy guns are targeted by the triggered.

Apparently you are in the wrong seed then, since this one has nothing to do with toy guns.  Deflection noted.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
6  Mark in Wyoming     2 years ago

Firearms designed and sized for youths is not a new concept , it has been going on for years . who remembers the old chipmunk .22 for kids ?

Now the marketing strategy, has changed very much over the years , and i cant say i agree with some of the changes . 

 
 
 
zuksam
Junior Silent
6.1  zuksam  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @6    2 years ago

Just about every gun manufacturer made a "Boys Rifle" between 1900-1970. As far as the present day marketing since kids can't buy them the marketing is aimed at adults. One old ad I saw for a boy's rifle said "So you want to be a Real Boy" as if you weren't and couldn't be a real boy without a real gun.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
6.1.1  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  zuksam @6.1    2 years ago
Just about every gun manufacturer made a "Boys Rifle"

and they still do , thing is nowadays its not called a "boys" rifle . i dont know about anyone else , but i taught my girls to shoot just as i did my son,and at early ages where they could actually handle the firearms i had , i even started my grandkids early , to remove the curiosity from their minds and the desire to grab and touch , if that was eliminated , they had no desire to unless we were going to a range .

Since they already have a decent foundation on firearms safety , i and their step dad can concentrate on other things about hunting , which 2 of my grandkids are now old enough to participate in with adult supervision .

or like what happened recently in FLA , kids grandpa took him out magnet fishing , harmless hobby by all accounts that even the kid could do on his own ,without an adult , no one would think otherwise or that was bad . grandpa and the kid hauled in not one , but 2 barrett .50 BMG rifles from the causeway they were exploring , now imagine if the kid was . alone . not that in that case there was any danger , the rifles had no barrels or ammunition , but if my grandkid walked in after magnet fishing with those i would have had to have a change of undies .... $9500 apiece they are so thats not something everyone would be buying  and thats the base plain jane model with no frills .

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Participates
7  Nowhere Man    2 years ago

I honed my shooting skills at the local Boys Club at ten years old firing a Ruger 10-22, but by that time I had already spent two years on the farm with my Marlin model 60 long barrel learning to hit what I aimed at for two years... 

Real boy? my father thought it was a necessary skill his kids should have, including his daughters....

That experience and the practice over the years caused me to blow right through the Appleseed I went through six years ago shooting a WWII Romanian CZ-24 8MM Mauser over iron sights... (my reach out and got ya gun)

Shooting well isn't hard it just takes practice....

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
9  Mark in Wyoming     2 years ago

It is starting to look to me like the main complaints are the packaging graphics and cosmetic etchings are the cause of outrage .

 Change the packaging , remove the cosmetic etchings of skulls , and it is the same thing , a starter firearm for those learning a new hobby they have shown interest in and is fitted for their size  and their parents agree with ,  If their parents dont agree , they wont get it .

Do that and the world is right again .

 personally i wouldnt get one at this point because it would have very limited use for my remaining grandkids before they grew large enough to use the next size up.

 
 
 
TOM PA
Freshman Silent
10  TOM PA    2 years ago

800 Sarcasm 

 
 

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