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Inflation is very good for business

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  john-russell  •  2 years ago  •  36 comments

Inflation is very good for business

 As usual John Stewart gets to the heart of the matter

I highly recommend watching at least part of this video


S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  seeder  JohnRussell    2 years ago

 at the 7 minute mark the expert says that her organization has examined the transcripts of hundreds of " profit calls " where the CEO's brag to the share holders that the company has been able to jack up the price of their product

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
2  Sean Treacy    2 years ago

If you don’t think increases in production/materials/wages causes prices to rise, you don’t understand how a business functions.

It’s blatantly obvious why progressive apologists need to scape goat businesses, but even Biden’s economic advisers have pushed back against this silly narrative from the politicized left

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @2    2 years ago

It's not a question if increased cost would raise prices it's a question of in many cases if the prices are being raised far above rising costs,  that is what this expert is arguing.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @2    2 years ago
even Biden’s economic advisers have pushed back against this silly narrative from the politicized left

Of course. Biden is a corporatist. Always has been. His populism resides in his support for unions.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
2.3  Thrawn 31  replied to  Sean Treacy @2    2 years ago

There is a difference between raising prices to match increasing costs and artificially raising prices for the sole purpose of exploiting a situation to boost profits.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.3.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Thrawn 31 @2.3    2 years ago

Talking to these people on this seed is like talking to the wall.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
2.3.2  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @2.3.1    2 years ago
[deleted]
 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3  Kavika     2 years ago

Recent Data Show Dominant Meat Processing Companies Are Taking Advantage of Market Power to Raise Prices and Grow Profit   Margins

DECEMBER 10, 2021 BLOG

By: Brian Deese, Sameera Fazili, and Bharat Ramamurti


The Biden Administration has been working at every level to address supply chain issues that are affecting prices. Many such issues are related to the pandemic—like changes in demand patterns, bottlenecks, or shutdowns. But for some price increases affecting Americans, there’s another culprit: dominant corporations in uncompetitive markets taking advantage of their market power to raise prices while increasing their own profit margins. Meat prices are a good example. 

In September, we   explained   that meat prices are the biggest contributor to the rising cost of groceries, in part because just a few large corporations dominate meat processing.   The November Consumer Price Index data released this morning demonstrates that meat prices are still the single largest contributor to the rising cost of food people consume at home.   Beef, pork, and poultry price increases make up a quarter of the overall increase in food-at-home prices last month.

As we noted in September, just four large conglomerates control approximately 55-85% of the market for pork, beef, and poultry, and these middlemen were using their market power to increase prices and underpay farmers, while taking more and more for themselves. New data released in the last several weeks by four of the biggest meat-processing companies—Tyson, JBS, Marfrig, and Seaboard—show that this trend continues. (Other top processors are private companies that don’t report publicly on their profits, margins, or income.) According to these companies’ latest quarterly earnings statements, their gross profits have collectively increased by more than 120% since before the pandemic, and their net income has surged by 500%. They have also recently announced over a billion dollars in new dividends and stock buybacks, on top of the more than $3 billion they paid out to shareholders since the pandemic began.

net-income.jpg

Some claim that meat processors are forced to raise prices to the level they are now because of increasing input costs ( e.g ., things like the cost of labor or transportation), but their own earnings data and statements contradict that claim. Their profit margins—the amount of money they are making  over and above their costs —have skyrocketed since the pandemic. Gross margins are up 50% and net margins are up over 300%. If rising input costs were driving rising meat prices, those profit margins would be roughly flat, because higher prices would be offset by the higher costs. Instead, we’re seeing the dominant meat processors use their market power to extract bigger and bigger profit margins for themselves. Businesses that face meaningful competition can’t do that, because they would lose business to a competitor that did not hike its margins.

As one large meat-processing firm   noted   to investors during its earnings call, their pricing actions “more than offset the higher COGS [cost of goods sold].” Comparing the fourth quarter of 2021 to the same quarter in 2020, that same firm   increased   the price of beef so much—by more than 35%—that they made record profits while actually selling   less beef   than before.

gross-profits-and-margins-.jpg

Here is the bottom line: the meat price increases we are seeing are not just the natural consequences of supply and demand in a free market—they are also the result of corporate decisions to take advantage of their market power in an uncompetitive market, to the detriment of consumers, farmers and ranchers, and our economy.   They underscore why promoting competition is a core part of the Biden-Harris Administration’s economic agenda.

The Administration has   already announced   strong actions to crack down on illegal price fixing and enforce the antitrust laws robustly, investments of hundreds of millions of dollars to create more competition in meat-processing, over a billion dollars in relief to small businesses and agricultural workers hurt by COVID, and many other steps to ensure American families, farmers, and ranchers get a fairer shake. These are just a few of the actions we’re taking under our existing authorities.

Just yesterday, the Department of Agriculture announced that its loan guarantee program to invest in small meat processors and distributors is   now open   for business. The program will use $100 million in American Rescue Plan funding to leverage approximately $1 billion in lending capital through community and private sector lenders to expand meat and poultry processing capacity and finance other food supply chain infrastructure. This important investment in new private sector capacity will give producers more options, help bring competition to the meat-processing industry, and close vulnerabilities in the food supply chain revealed and exacerbated by the pandemic. It is in addition to the   previously announced   $500 million investment for expanded meat and poultry processing capacity.

In September, we also called for Congress to work together to enact greater transparency in cattle markets. We are encouraged to see that Senators have since announced new, additional efforts   to work together to advance bipartisan legislation.  

Together, these actions will support families, farmers, ranchers, and workers, and address the concentration in meat processing that makes it easier for dominant corporations to hike prices.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Kavika @3    2 years ago

The article you posted pretty clearly explains what's going on

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
3.2  Jack_TX  replied to  Kavika @3    2 years ago
According to these companies’ latest quarterly earnings statements, their gross profits have collectively increased by more than 120% since before the pandemic, and their net income has surged by 500%

According to your graph, their margins are still less than 10%.

They've gone from "almost losing money" to "possibly able to survive the upcoming recession".

Out of curiosity, what profit margin would you find acceptable?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.2.1  Kavika   replied to  Jack_TX @3.2    2 years ago
What profit margin do you think is acceptable?

My purpose in posting the information was to show that the major players in the meat/poultry industry have increased their margins beyond the increase in their cost. I made no comment on what was acceptable or not since I have no expertise in the industry. 

Now in my industry from the 1st quarter of 2014 to the 3rd  quarter of 2021 the industry only exceeded 5% (5.3%) in one quarter and many quarters were negative and some very negative. Starting with the pandemic the EBIT has risen to a record of 56% in why 3rd quarter of 2021. I'm sure that the principles are quite happy with it but the consumers are not, rest assured you are one of the consumers.

So you tell me,  is the 56% acceptable to you or is the less than 3% on average over 6 years acceptable to you?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
3.2.2  Jack_TX  replied to  Kavika @3.2.1    2 years ago
My purpose in posting the information was to show that the major players in the meat/poultry industry have increased their margins beyond the increase in their cost. I made no comment on what was acceptable or not since I have no expertise in the industry. 

Fair enough.   But the implication overall seems to be that the increase is somehow nefarious in nature.

Now in my industry from the 1st quarter of 2014 to the 3rd  quarter of 2021 the industry only exceeded 5% (5.3%) in one quarter and many quarters were negative and some very negative. Starting with the pandemic the EBIT has risen to a record of 56% in why 3rd quarter of 2021. I'm sure that the principles are quite happy with it but the consumers are not, rest assured you are one of the consumers. So you tell me,  is the 56% acceptable to you or is the less than 3% on average over 6 years acceptable to you?

Yeah.  I don't have a problem with that at all, especially given the previous numbers.  Businesses can't survive too many negative quarters. 

If memory serves, you're in the transportation sector, but the economics are true for any industry.  When businesses can't make money, they eventually shut down, and then consumers are faced with the reality of living without their goods or services. 

If trucking companies can't make money, eventually I can't get stuff shipped to my house or the stores I frequent.  

Back to the meat industry, I've been getting chicken breasts at about $1.90/lb for almost 10 years.  If I have to pay $2.25/lb or $2.50 or $4 to make sure Tyson and others make enough profit to make it worth their effort, it still beats the hell out of having to raise and pluck the damn things myself.

To put the margin issue in context, Merck Pharmaceuticals' margins are about 28%.  So are Apple's.  Google's are 27%.  Exxon's are 10%.  HCA Hospitals makes 12%.  JP Morgan makes 34%, which will probably increase as interest rates rise.

Tyson foods makes 8.67%, which is up 94% from last year.

So while it may be completely accurate to say meat companies have increased margins by 500%, it's also accurate to say they still don't make very much money compared to other big companies.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.2.3  Kavika   replied to  Jack_TX @3.2.2    2 years ago
Fair enough.   But the implication overall seems to be that the increase is somehow nefarious in nature.

Don't make assumptions, Jack. I said specifically why I posted it.

Yes, I was in the international container carrier end and we also owned both drayage companies, stevedoring companies, and trucking companies worldwide.

The 56% in my industry is adding to the inflation, considering pre-pandemic a 40 container from the FE to the WC was on average $4500 per and currently it's $19,000 per. Costs have increased as well but not nearly to that extent. Also, warehousing/drayage/LH trucking costs have also skyrocketed. 

If trucking companies can't make money, eventually I can't get stuff shipped to my house or the stores I frequent.  

Back to the meat industry, I've been getting chicken breasts at about $1.90/lb for almost 10 years.  If I have to pay $2.25/lb or $2.50 or $4 to make sure Tyson and others make enough profit to make it worth their effort, it still beats the hell out of having to raise and pluck the damn things myself.

To put the margin issue in context, Merck Pharmaceuticals' margins are about 28%.  So are Apple's.  Google's are 27%.  Exxon's are 10%.  HCA Hospitals makes 12%.  JP Morgan makes 34%, which will probably increase as interest rates rise.

Tyson foods makes 8.67%, which is up 94% from last year.

You're singing to the choir, Jack. I'm quite cognizant of the need to make a profit and the margins of some industries.  The article as I see it is talking about companies jacking up their rates without a corresponding increase in their costs. That is why I posted what it did. Because the answer is yes, some companies are doing just that and that adds to inflation. I made no comment on what a margin should or should not be.

Much of this could have been avoided (in my industry) a lack of foresight and investment in port infrastructure helped put us in the position we are currently in. 

In a meeting some years back with the top officials of one of the major US ports I was asked what should we, the ports be looking at to advance the capabilities of the port. We laid out a plan for them and they, of course, laughed at it. Their own record should have told them that the increase in container shipping was happening every year at a breakneck pace. 

My parting comment to the director was, you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 5 lb bag, and you're going to learn that lesson in the next few years, and here we are.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
3.2.4  Jack_TX  replied to  Kavika @3.2.3    2 years ago
Don't make assumptions, Jack. I said specifically why I posted it.

I'm not making assumptions. You have stated your reasons for posting it and I have no reason to doubt you.  That does not change the fact that the article itself is clearly pejorative.

The specific exception I take with the article is the insinuation that the meat/poultry people are somehow a bunch of price gouging Boss Hog fatcats when they barely make any money.   

The combination of "their margins are up by 500%" and "the Biden Administration cracking down on illegal price-fixing" and suggesting that congressional action is necessary paints a pretty nasty picture of a group of companies that are probably just relieved they're going to be able to cover the increase in employee health insurance this year.  

The 56% in my industry is adding to the inflation, considering pre pandamic a 40 container from the FE to the WC was on average $4500 per and currently it's $19,000 per. Costs have increased as well but not nearly to that extent. Also warehousing/drayage/LH trucking cost have also skyrocked. 

Yeah, my clients who import products are all complaining.  Most of them have enough pricing power to pass that on, but a couple are really hurting.

It happens in every industry, though.  My son works for a small commercial electrical contractor.  They've quadrupled their mark-ups in the last month and they're still turning away work because they don't have the capacity.

I think a lot of people are simply trying to "make hay while the sun shines" because they know it won't last forever.  Chances are pretty good that the Fed is going to overdo their response to this and put us into recession. 

Much of this could have been avoided (in my industry) a lack for forsight and investment in port infastructure helped put us in the position we are currently in. 

I'll certainly defer to your expertise there.  It does seem obvious that the long term future is almost always going to involve the need for increased capacity.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
4  Greg Jones    2 years ago

So why was this so called "corporate greed" not in evidence during Trump's term

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
4.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  Greg Jones @4    2 years ago

Because things don’t happen instantaneously.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5  Sparty On    2 years ago

One wonders, if inflation is so good for business why did the Biden admin claim it was only transitory just a couple months ago?    Why didn’t they say, don’t worry.    Inflation is good for you.    Now that inflation is clearly entrenched and not going away any day soon, the narrative has to shift.

Now it’s all just greedy businesses.    I mean, the nerve of greedy businesses.    Trying to recover inflated labor costs.    Trying to recover inflated shipping cost.    Trying to recover inflated materials costs, etc, etc.

This isn’t a defense of corporations that might be taking advantage of inflation but rest assured.    Most of us in small business are getting hammered by inflationary issues and therefore so are our customers.    No greed about it.    It’s just survival.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
5.1  Krishna  replied to  Sparty On @5    2 years ago
One wonders, if inflation is so good for busines

I look at things from a slightly different perspective, as I am a sStock Market traders/investor. Over many years one of the more important things I've learned is to be careful with over generalizations.

So here's the short comment on that. Inflations means things get more expensive. Not only for consumers but also for businesses. Increased expenses mean lower profits for business (and in  some cases they go bankrupt). So for the vast majority of companies (and stocks) increased inflation is a negative.

And of course its a negative for most consumers.

However: that's not true for all sectors. For some sectors inflation is great . Hard assets. Commodities, etc actually  benefit from higher inflation. In fact, when there is expectation of increasing inflation, traditionally smart investors buy gold. (because it gets more expensive, the amount of money you get for selling an ounce of gold is much more!). Traditionally it was recommended that as an "inflation hedge"-- smart investors keep 5% (for some people up to 10% ) of their portfolio in Gold. (Or Silver-- or for that matter any commodity). Also Real Estate (I like REITS )."Hard Assets". Although of course all REITS are not created equal.

Some people feel that Bitcoin "is the new gold"-- some people are buying that as an inflation hedge. (I don't own any-- too risky for me, and anyway I primarily invest for income, not capita; appreciation).

 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.1  Sparty On  replied to  Krishna @5.1    2 years ago

There are winners and losers in most things of this nature.    No doubt about that  but the inescapable fact of higher inflation is that it hits lower to mid income consumers the hardest.

High inflation is bad for consumers in general which means most Americans.

 
 
 
jw
Freshman Silent
6  jw    2 years ago

You  are spot on,  shipping prices are through the roof, almost double what we paid a year ago for a load, raw  input costs are up 30% from a year ago, labor costs are going up if you can find anyone who is willing to work.  Form most small business's  this is a hope we make enough to survive market.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
6.1  Sparty On  replied to  jw @6    2 years ago

Yep, tough for worker drones to understand though.    Biggest business most them probably ever ran was maybe a lemonade stand in their hood.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7  Texan1211    2 years ago

If the businesses are doing nothing illegal, why is anyone complaining?

If anyone has evidence of price gouging illegally, they should certainly report it to their State's AG office.

Can businesses not set their own costs of goods and services?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
7.1  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @7    2 years ago

Nope, not in new liberal America.    

Businesses must conform .... to the progressive hive ..... must conform to the socialist idiocy ....

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Sparty On @7.1    2 years ago

More ridiculous comments

 Jon Stewart is not complaining about companies that legitimately raise prices because of their rising costs.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
7.1.2  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.1    2 years ago

More sophomoric sentiment.    

Who decides what is too much profit margin?    Jon Stewart?    John Russell?     A liberal college professor/advisor to Lizzie Warren?

Strike one, strike two, strike three .....

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.3  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Sparty On @7.1.2    2 years ago

Stop bitching about Joe Biden and inflation then if you dont want to understand reality.

.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.4  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.3    2 years ago
Stop bitching about Joe Biden and inflation then if you dont want to understand reality.

Where and WHAT did you read in regards to him bitching about Biden?

Why are you arguing points NO ONE ELSE IS EVEN TALKING ABOUT?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
7.1.5  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.3    2 years ago

Lol ... I’m not the one without a firm grasp on reality.    That horse left your barn long, long ago ...

By the way, nice job avoiding the question.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @7    2 years ago

Do you understand that just a few companies have a monopoly on the meat market?  Their greed is adding to inflation, period. Have you heard about that in the mainstream media?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
7.2.1  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @7.2    2 years ago

Good, you’ve control of the Fed .... quit bitching about it and get it investigated.    One wonders why that hasn’t happen sooner.    

Perhaps because only a few months ago this was all just transitory. /s

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.2.2  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @7.2    2 years ago
Do you understand that just a few companies have a monopoly on the meat market? 

A monopoly? Isn't that against the law?

Why should any company price their products to please you?

 
 
 
jw
Freshman Silent
7.2.3  jw  replied to  JohnRussell @7.2    2 years ago

There is a very simple solution to this quit buying the products that they produce.  But it is easier to bitch about it than to go find a local butcher shop or farm to consumer outlet, that. I am sure they would appreciate the business.  

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
7.2.4  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @7.2    2 years ago
 Their greed is adding to inflation, period

We just saw data telling us their margins are less than 10%.  That's hardly greed. 

What profit margin do you think is acceptable?

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
7.2.5  Krishna  replied to  JohnRussell @7.2    2 years ago
Do you understand that just a few companies have a monopoly on the meat market? 

If there are a few companies...would that be considered a monopoly?

IIRC, most cellphones sold in the U.S. are either made by Apple or Samsung. 

That's less than a few companies, in fact its two.

Are Apple and Samsung monopolies?

I believe Verizon, AT&T and T-Mobile/Sprint control most of the phone traffic in the  U.S. (?)

Are they monopolies?

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
7.2.6  Krishna  replied to  jw @7.2.3    2 years ago
There is a very simple solution to this quit buying the products that they produce.

Or become a vegetarian-- or eat more fish and little or no red meat. Much cheaper as well

(And anyway its much healthier jrSmiley_2_smiley_image.png )

 
 

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