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Trump Organization Found Guilty in Tax Fraud Scheme: Live Updates - The New York Times

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  jbb  •  2 years ago  •  14 comments

By:   nytimes

Trump Organization Found Guilty in Tax Fraud Scheme: Live Updates - The New York Times
The former president's company had been accused of providing off-the-book benefits to executives. The testimony of its former chief financial officer proved crucial to the case.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



The former president's company had been accused of providing off-the-book benefits to executives. The testimony of its former chief financial officer proved crucial to the case.

  • 00trump-notguilty-Header1-1-868d-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale Donald J. Trump continues to face several state and federal probes stemming from conduct in his business and political lives.Credit...Jamie Kelter Davis for The New York Timest_logo_291_black.png Updated Dec. 6, 2022, 4:10 p.m. ETDec. 6, 2022, 4:10 p.m. ET

Jonah E. Bromwich, Ben Protess, William K. Rashbaum and Lola Fadulu

The guilty verdict is a stern rebuke for a company that fostered crime.


ImageThe family business that nurtured Donald J. Trump's fame has been branded a felonious concern.Credit...Brittany Greeson for The New York Times

Donald J. Trump's family real estate business was convicted on Tuesday of tax fraud and other financial crimes, a remarkable rebuke of the former president's company and what prosecutors described as its "culture of fraud and deception."

The conviction on all 17 counts, after more than a day of jury deliberations in State Supreme Court in Manhattan, resulted from a long-running scheme in which the Trump Organization doled out off-the-books luxury perks to some executives: They received fancy apartments, leased Mercedes-Benzes, even private school tuition for relatives, none of which they paid taxes on.

The Manhattan district attorney's office, which led the case against two Trump Organization entities, had previously extracted a guilty plea from the architect of the scheme, Allen H. Weisselberg, the company's long-serving chief financial officer. Mr. Weisselberg, one of the former president's most loyal lieutenants, testified as the prosecution's star witness, but never implicated Mr. Trump.

While prosecutors stopped short of indicting the former president, they invoked his name throughout the monthlong trial, telling jurors that he personally paid for some of the perks and even approved a crucial aspect of the scheme. The prosecution also sounded a drumbeat of damning evidence that spotlighted his company's freewheeling culture, revealing that pervasive illegality unfolded under Mr. Trump's nose for years.

The company's conviction — coupled with the prosecution's explosive claim at trial that Mr. Trump was "explicitly sanctioning tax fraud" — could now reverberate through the 2024 presidential race, providing early fodder for opponents and their attack ads.

It also might lay the groundwork for the district attorney's office to intensify its wider criminal investigation into Mr. Trump's business practices — and hush money paid to a porn star who said she had an affair with him — an inquiry that gained momentum in recent months, according to people with knowledge of the matter.

The conviction on charges of tax fraud, a scheme to defraud, conspiracy and falsifying business records is hardly a death sentence for the Trump Organization. The maximum penalty it faces is $1.62 million, a rounding error for Mr. Trump, who typically notched hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue during his presidency.

Yet the verdict represents a highly public reckoning for the Trump Organization, forever branding it as a felonious enterprise. A company that served as a launching pad for the former president's tabloid celebrity, his star turn on "The Apprentice" and ultimately his political career, might now be best known for its conviction, rather than the hotels and golf clubs that Mr. Trump spent a generation building.

The former president has blamed it all on a politically motivated witch hunt. But while his attacks on prosecutors might appeal to his most loyal voters, lenders and the broader business world might now shun his company.

In a statement after the verdict, the company took aim at Mr. Weisselberg, noting that he "testified under oath that he 'betrayed' the trust the company had placed in him."

"The notion that a company could be held responsible for an employee's actions, to benefit themselves, on their own personal tax returns is simply preposterous," the company said in the statement.

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William K. Rashbaum and Jonah E. Bromwich

Judge in Trump Company Trial Knew How to Read the Numbers


ImageJustice Juan M. Merchan runs a businesslike court amid a rough-and-tumble criminal justice system.Credit...Ahmed Gaber for The New York Times

The criminal tax fraud trial of Donald J. Trump's family real estate business hinged on endless rows of spreadsheets and tax documents bristling with indecipherable numbers.

Most people in the courtroom did not know that one participant was unusually equipped to digest those dry details — the presiding judge, Juan M. Merchan, 60, who as a young man worked for several years as an internal auditor at a small real estate development company.

Now a jurist with 16 years on the bench, he oversaw the only consequential criminal trial to date involving the former president. His rulings likely helped determine the jury's guilty verdict Tuesday.

At the heart of the case was whether the company, the Trump Organization, was responsible for a scheme to dole out off-the-books perks like leased Mercedes-Benzes and apartments to executives who failed to pay taxes on them. The case enraged Mr. Trump and his supporters and could permanently damage the business and influence the 2024 presidential campaign.

During the five-week trial, the gray-haired Justice Merchan maintained an order that is often lacking elsewhere in state court in what can be a rough-and-tumble practice of criminal law.

On Friday, the trial's final day, one of the company's lawyers kept interrupting the prosecution's closing argument with objections. Finally, Justice Merchan made a frustrated gesture for the defense and prosecution to approach the bench. But during the sidebar, he was composed, listening to the lawyer, Susan R. Necheles, before telling her to let the prosecution continue talking about an exhibit.

"You objected three times already," he said after Ms. Necheles explained her grievance. "Give him the opportunity to go through the chart. If that is your objection, it is overruled."

Justice Merchan is a first-generation immigrant, born in Bogota, Colombia. He came to the United States with his family when he was 6 years old, and grew up poor in Jackson Heights, Queens, according to people familiar with his background.

In Colombia, his father was a military officer who later served in the country's intelligence service, the people said, and after coming to New York, he worked as a night dishwasher at the old Americana Hotel in Manhattan. His mother worked in New York at a range of jobs, including packaging food for airline meals and working in a zipper and toy factories.

The youngest of six and the first in his family to go to college, he began working at the age of 9, carrying groceries for tips, and then held jobs through high school that included washing dishes at a diner and delivering kosher meat. In college, he worked as a night manager at a hotel.

The judge earned a business degree from Baruch College, but not before dropping out to work as an internal auditor at the real estate firm, the United Nations Development Corporation. Several years later he returned to get his degree so he could go to law school, continuing to work to put himself college. The result, he later told people, was terrible grades.

He began his legal career in 1994 as an assistant district attorney in Manhattan after graduating from Hofstra University School of Law. After five years conducting trials and prosecuting financial fraud cases, he moved to the State Attorney General's office, where he held positions overseeing civil cases on Long Island. Mayor Michael Bloomberg appointed him to the bench in Bronx Family Court in 2006, and since 2009, he has been an acting justice in State Supreme Court, presiding over felony criminal trials.

The judge is no stranger to high-profile or complex financial cases, but the largely staid proceedings of the tax fraud trial are a far cry from some of the other cases that have garnered media attention in his court.

For example, in one murder case, a Senegalese man tried to call an expert witness prosecutors identified as a witch doctor to testify that he killed his ex-girlfriend while under the influence of evil spirits. He also presided over the trial of a suburban woman accused of running a $2,000-an-hour escort service who tabloids dubbed "The Soccer Mom Madam."

Justice Merchan's work ethic was cited by several lawyers who have appeared before him. In addition to handling criminal trials in State Supreme Court, Justice Merchan also presides over the Manhattan Mental Health Court and the Veterans Treatment Court, which provide special services to nonviolent defendants.

"He is someone who reads every word on every page of every filing and every footnote — and then the cases that you cite to him," said Jose A. Fanjul, a former Manhattan assistant district attorney who got to know Justice Merchan when he prosecuted a four-month white-collar fraud trial in the judge's court. "His fidelity to the law and to getting it right lends to him this sort of moral purpose of what he's doing that makes it a joy to practice in front of him."

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William Rashbaum

Mr. Weisselberg did not implicate Mr. Trump in his testimony. One of his lawyers, Mary E. Mulligan, said in a statement: "We thank and respect the jurors for the important role that they play in the judicial system."

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Lola Fadulu

Mr. Futerfas told a group of reporters that the Trump Organization would soon release a statement on the verdict. But he said a "novel and really interesting issue" developed during the trial, which was the definition of "in behalf of." The prosecution was charged with persuading the jury that when top executives engaged in the tax-fraud scheme, they acted in behalf of the company. "That will be one of the arguments we will make, and it was central to the case."

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Jonah Bromwich

Alan Futerfas, a defense lawyer for the company, says that the company will appeal.

t_logo_291_black.png Dec. 6, 2022, 4:15 p.m. ETDec. 6, 2022, 4:15 p.m. ET

Benjamin Protess

Mr. Weisselberg remains a Trump Organization employee, where he is on paid leave. His future with a company that he has served for decades is now uncertain.

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Jonah E. Bromwich

Here are the key events in the investigation into the Trump family business.


ImageThe investigation into the Trump Organization began with questions about hush money payments.Credit...Maddie McGarvey for The New York Times

The investigation by the Manhattan district attorney's office into former President Donald J. Trump and his family real estate business began more than three years ago. Here are some key moments:

Aug. 21, 2018

Michael D. Cohen says he arranged hush money payments for the president.


Mr. Cohen, previously a personal lawyer and fixer for Mr. Trump, pleaded guilty to federal crimes and told a court that Mr. Trump directed him to arrange payments to two women. The payments were made during the 2016 campaign to keep the women from speaking publicly about affairs they said they had with Mr. Trump.

Soon after Mr. Cohen's admission, the Manhattan district attorney's office opened an investigation to examine whether the payments broke New York State laws. The office soon paused at the request of federal prosecutors, who were looking into the same conduct.

August 2019

The district attorney's office subpoenas the Trump Organization.


After federal prosecutors said that they had "effectively concluded" their investigation, Cyrus R. Vance Jr., the Manhattan district attorney at the time, revived his own inquiry. Late in the month, prosecutors in his office issued a subpoena to the Trump Organization and another to Mr. Trump's accounting firm, demanding eight years of Mr. Trump's personal and corporate tax returns.

Sept. 19, 2019

Mr. Trump's lawyers sue to protect his tax returns.


The lawsuit, filed in federal court in Manhattan, led to a lengthy delay. The case argued that a sitting president could not be criminally investigated.

July 9, 2020

Mr. Vance wins his first key victory at the U.S. Supreme Court.


After appellate judges ruled against Mr. Trump, the lawsuit found its way to the Supreme Court, where the justices ruled that the presidency did not shield Mr. Trump from criminal inquiries and that he had no absolute right to block the release of his tax returns.

The ruling left Mr. Trump with the opportunity to raise different objections to Mr. Vance's subpoena. Raise them he did.

Aug. 3, 2020

A filing hints at a new focus of the inquiry.


A court filing from the district attorney's office suggested that it had been investigating Mr. Trump and his business for possible bank and insurance fraud — a far broader scope than just the hush money payments.

The filing cited a newspaper report that the president might have illegally inflated the value of his properties.

About a month later, Mr. Trump tried a new approach to fight the subpoena for his tax returns, arguing in court that the request was politically motivated and represented an "unlawful fishing expedition."

AUTUMN 2020

The investigation intensifies.


Prosecutors interviewed employees of the main bank and insurance company that serve Mr. Trump and issued several new subpoenas.

The district attorney's office also signaled in another court filing that it had grounds to investigate the president for tax fraud.

ImageMr. Trump has said the investigation is politically motivated.Credit...Stefani Reynolds for The New York Times

Feb. 22, 2021

The Supreme Court denies Mr. Trump's final bid to block the release of his returns.


The brief unsigned order was a decisive defeat for Mr. Trump and a turning point in Mr. Vance's investigation.

Just hours later, eight years of financial records were handed over to Mr. Vance's office.

March 1, 2021

The investigation's focus turns to a top executive.


In the spring, Mr. Vance's prosecutors set their sights on Allen H. Weisselberg, the Trump Organization's long-serving chief financial officer, whom they hoped to pressure into cooperating with their investigation.

The prosecutors were particularly interested in whether the Trump Organization handed out valuable benefits to Mr. Weisselberg as a form of untaxed compensation.

July 1, 2021

The Trump Organization is charged with running a 15-year tax scheme.


When Mr. Weisselberg refused to turn on his boss, prosecutors announced charges against him and Mr. Trump's company, saying that the firm helped its executives evade taxes by compensating them with benefits such as free cars and apartments that were hidden from the authorities.

Fall 2021

Prosecutors reach a critical phase of the investigation.


Investigators issued new subpoenas for information about Mr. Trump's properties and signaled that they had returned to the focus on the former president's statements about the value of his properties.

By December, Mr. Vance authorized his prosecutors to begin presenting evidence about Mr. Trump to a grand jury, a process that would have been likely to culminate in an indictment of the former president.

JAN. 1, 2022

A new Manhattan district attorney takes office.


Mr. Vance left office and his elected successor, Alvin L. Bragg, took over the case.

Mr. Bragg, a former federal prosecutor, retained two of the investigation's leaders, Mark F. Pomerantz, an experienced former federal prosecutor and white-collar defense lawyer, and Carey Dunne, Mr. Vance's general counsel.

Feb. 23, 2022

Two prosecutors resign, leaving the investigation's future in doubt.


After Mr. Bragg expressed reservations about the case, Mr. Pomerantz and Mr. Dunne suspended the presentation of evidence about Mr. Trump to a grand jury. A month later, they resigned, prompting an uproar over Mr. Bragg's decision not to proceed with an indictment.

In his resignation letter, which was later obtained by The New York Times, Mr. Pomerantz said that Mr. Trump had been guilty of numerous felonies.

April 29, 2022

A grand jury expires.


The grand jury that had been hearing evidence about Mr. Trump expired toward the end of April. Though Mr. Bragg's investigation continued, signs emerged that the former president would not be charged in Manhattan in the foreseeable future.

Aug. 18, 2022

Mr. Weisselberg pleads guilty and agrees to testify against the Trump Organization.


Though the chief financial officer declined to turn on Mr. Trump himself, he agreed to testify at the October trial against the company that he served for nearly half a century.

Oct. 24, 2022

Jury selection begins, marking the official beginning of the trial.


Lawyers for the district attorney's office and the Trump Organization gathered in a Manhattan courtroom to begin interviewing jurors.

Dec. 5, 2022

The case goes to the jury.


After five weeks sitting quietly in court, the panel of New Yorkers took center stage as it considered whether or not the Trump Organization was guilty.

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William Rashbaum

The verdict is good news for Mr. Weisselberg, the star witness and Mr. Trump's former chief financial officer and longtime gatekeeper. His plea deal required that he testify truthfully in order to get the sentence agreed to, so this likely means he will spend no more than about 100 days behind bars.

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Maggie Haberman

Trump became a presidential candidate for a third time just three weeks ago, a move he made in part as a shield against other investigations he is facing, including one in Georgia and two by the Justice Department.

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Maggie Haberman

The fine that the company is facing is not especially large, less than $2 million. But the verdict could affect future business endeavors by the firm.

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William Rashbaum

The former Manhattan district attorney, Cyrus R. Vance Jr., started the investigation into Mr. Trump and his business and oversaw it for four years. His reaction to the verdict: "This was a clear-cut case of tax fraud. It's remarkable how long it took, including two Supreme Court arguments to get the records to bring this case, but this stage in the investigation is over, and I hope it continues."

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Jonah E. Bromwich

The verdict is a major victory for the Manhattan district attorney, Alvin Bragg.


ImageDistrict Attorney Alvin Bragg took office amid a continuing investigation, and has been excoriated for his handling of it.Credit...Sarah Blesener for The New York Times

The guilty verdict against Donald J. Trump's company provides a much-needed win for the district attorney, Alvin L. Bragg, marking the height of his young tenure.

There are few people for whom the trial of the Trump Organization meant more.

"The former president's companies now stand convicted of crimes," Mr. Bragg said after the verdict was read. "That is consequential. It underscores that in Manhattan we have one standard of justice for all."

When Mr. Bragg was sworn in Jan. 1, prosecutors in his office had already charged Donald J. Trump's family business and its longtime chief financial officer with carrying out a sweeping tax evasion scheme. And the prosecutors were presenting evidence to a grand jury about Mr. Trump himself.

After weeks of deliberations, Mr. Bragg decided he was not comfortable with the case against Mr. Trump, citing concerns about proving that he had intended to break the law, a necessary element for a conviction. Shortly thereafter, two senior prosecutors who had been leading the investigation resigned, fueling a public uproar, even among some of the new district attorney's supporters.

But a conviction of the Trump Organization might help endear Mr. Bragg to a liberal Manhattan voting base that hungers to see the former president held to account, particularly as prosecutors have recently sought to jump-start the investigation into Mr. Trump himself. This week, Mr. Bragg hired a new senior counsel, Matthew Colangelo, to help lead the inquiry.

The unraveling of the Trump investigation was not the only difficulty of Mr. Bragg's early months in office. He also had to contend with the fallout from a memo he released in his first week, in which he pledged to incarcerate only those accused of the most serious crimes. That pledge caused weeks of controversy, and compelled Mr. Bragg to spend much of his first two months in office explaining himself.

In recent months, Mr. Bragg has been able to focus on some of his more dearly held priorities. This month, he announced the formation of a new housing and tenant protection unit, and charged six developers with defrauding a tax program — acting on one of his campaign promises to promote fairness in housing.

But the trial of the Trump Organization is by far the highest profile victory of Mr. Bragg's young tenure, and the win will likely bring a boost to his reputation.

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Maggie Haberman

Trump and his children and his company now face a civil suit filed by the New York attorney general accusing them all of widespread and pervasive fraud over a decade.

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Maggie Haberman

Even without Trump personally being charged, this is a devastating day for him. He has long sought to avoid having criminality attached to his name in any way shape or form.

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Jonah Bromwich

Mr. Bragg is delivering a press conference on the hallway of the 15th floor, with the prosecutors who won the case. "They more than ably represented the people of the state of New York," he says. "The former president's companies now stand convicted of crimes. That is consequential. It underscores that in Manhattan we have one standard of justice for all."

t_logo_291_black.png Dec. 6, 2022, 4:05 p.m. ETDec. 6, 2022, 4:05 p.m. ET

Benjamin Protess

The Trump Organization just released a statement taking aim at its long-time chief financial officer, Allen H. Weisselberg, who pleaded guilty and testified at the company's trial. "Mr. Weisselberg testified under oath that he 'betrayed' the trust the company had placed in him," the statement said. "The notion that a company could be held responsible for an employee's actions, to benefit themselves, on their own personal tax returns is simply preposterous."

t_logo_291_black.png Dec. 6, 2022, 4:01 p.m. ETDec. 6, 2022, 4:01 p.m. ET

Ben Protess

The Trump Organization faces a small financial punishment.


ImageThe Trump Organization has been branded a felonious actor, but the financial punishment is relatively light.Credit...John Taggart for The New York Times

Just $1.62 million.

That's the most that Donald J. Trump's family business will have to pay now that it was convicted of tax fraud and other crimes at its trial in State Supreme Court in Manhattan.‌ ‌

The size of the fine underscores that while the conviction has forever tarred the Trump Organization's name — and branded it a felon — the company is facing far less than a financial death sentence.‌ ‌And it helps explains why the company had been unwilling to plead guilty.

The Trump Organization resisted a deal even after its long-serving chief financial officer agreed to plead guilty and testify at the company's trial, which is focused on off-the-books luxury perks that the company doled out to some of its executives. Prosecutors have not accused Mr. Trump, or anyone in his family, of taking part in the scheme.

Although the Trump Organization has maintained its innocence — and Mr. Trump has chalked up the case to a politically-motivated witch hunt — the company might have been more willing to strike a deal if it ‌had been facing a harsher punishment.‌ ‌Mr. Trump typically notched hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue during his presidency, making $1.62 million something of a rounding error.‌ ‌

A company, of course, cannot be imprisoned, and the two convicted Trump corporations are not publicly traded. As such, there will be no run on the company if the jury convicts. It has no regulators to punish it or public investors to flee from it.‌ ‌

The two corporations — the Trump Corporation and ‌the ‌Trump Payroll Corp. — are‌ also‌ not central to Mr. Trump's moneymaking enterprise.

They largely perform back-office functions, employing and paying top executives, so they do not hold any loans, liquor licenses‌ or other privileges that might slip away in the wake of the conviction.‌ ‌

That's not to say that the verdict ‌will‌ be painless.‌ ‌

It ‌could scare off potential lenders and business partners, or enable them to impose stricter terms on Mr. Trump. And the reputational toll from being a felon makes it harder to retain employees and, eventually, to ‌expand the company.‌ ‌

While the cries of "witch hunt" appeal to Mr. Trump's political base, the business world could well turn its back on him.‌ ‌

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Benjamin Protess

The Trump Organization has been in legal trouble for years, but this is the biggest rebuke yet. The company faces more than $1 million in penalties and it could receive blowback from its lenders and business partners.

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Jonah Bromwich

The counts are still being reviewed in the courtroom, but it is substantively over. The jurors are confirming one by one that their verdict has been read accurately. Donald J. Trump's company has been found by a Manhattan jury to be a felon.

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Jonah Bromwich

The Manhattan district attorney Alvin L. Bragg is in the courtroom for the momentous victory of his young tenure.

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Jonah Bromwich

The jury has found both Trump defendants guilty on all counts.

ImageCredit...Jefferson Siegel for The New York Timesauthor-jonah-engel-bromwich-thumbLarge-v2.png Dec. 6, 2022, 3:51 p.m. ETDec. 6, 2022, 3:51 p.m. ET

Jonah Bromwich

The jury has found the Trump Corporation guilty on all counts. We are now going through the Trump Payroll Corporation.

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Lola Fadulu

The jury finds the Trump Organization guilty on the second count, conspiracy in the fourth degree.

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Jonah Bromwich

The jury find the Trump Organization guilty on the third and fourth counts.

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Jonah Bromwich

The jury finds the Trump Organization guilty on the sixth and seventh counts, of falsyifying business records.

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Jonah Bromwich

The jury finds the Trump Organization guilty on the first count.

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Hurubie Meko and Jonah E. Bromwich

Alternate Juror in Trump Organization Trial Says She Would Have Convicted


ImageProsecutors accused Allen H. Weisselberg, the Trump Organization's former chief financial officer, of concocting a tax fraud scheme to benefit the company as well as himself.Credit...Yuki Iwamura/Associated Press

The young woman spent a month sitting in the jury box of the Trump Organization trial, evaluating witnesses and poring over documents that purported to show whether Donald J. Trump's company was guilty of felonies related to a tax fraud scheme by its executives.

Then, on Monday, the day the jury began to deliberate, she was dismissed, along with three other alternate jurors who sat through the trial as substitutes in case one of the original 12 had been unable to continue.

In an interview Monday evening, the woman, who asked to not be named because she was concerned about potential harassment, said that during the weekslong trial the prosecution proved its case. The alternate juror said she believed she would have delivered a guilty verdict if she was to deliberate.

And on Tuesday afternoon, as the verdict from the 12 jurors who deliberated for over a day in a Manhattan courthouse was read aloud, it appears they agreed with her: Donald J. Trump's family real estate business was convicted on all counts.

The alternate juror concluded that Allen H. Weisselberg, who was the main architect of the scheme while serving as the company's chief financial officer, did not act only to enrich himself, but that his actions were intended to benefit the Trump Organization as well. Under New York law, the prosecution had to prove that Mr. Weisselberg did not act solely in his own interests.

The woman said that she spoke with her fellow alternates after they were dismissed, and that they shared her views. She noted that, like she, they were younger than the other jurors, and might have been more likely to see things similarly.

But she said the defense team's arguments didn't convince her of the corporation's innocence. In fact, she said she found the defense's style to have been bullying and, at times, inappropriate.

The defense's refrain, "Weisselberg did it for Weisselberg," was not convincing, the alternate juror said. Instead, she agreed with the prosecution that the scheme was complicated and couldn't be distilled into one phrase.

She and the other alternates were told upon being sent home that they could discuss the case and the trial freely with the public for the first time.

The remaining 12 jurors began deliberating Monday just before noon and continued into Tuesday.

They had been meeting in private, away from the 15th-floor Manhattan courtroom where the prosecution, the defense and the press waited anxiously for the sound of the buzzer that meant the jury wanted to communicate.

The jurors sounded it four times — three times to ask the judge to review some of the 17 counts against the Trump Organization corporations on trial.

At 3:42 they returned with their verdict.

Lola Fadulu contributed reporting. Susan C. Beachy contributed research.

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JBB
Professor Principal
1  seeder  JBB    2 years ago

The Trump Organization Has Been Found GUILTY of tax fraud in a NY courtroom today! No wonder all the gop has wanted to talk about was Hunter!

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  JBB @1    2 years ago
"'No wonder all the gop has wanted to talk about was Hunter!"

But Trump was not found guilty of anything

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
1.1.1  MrFrost  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    2 years ago

But Trump was not found guilty of anything

Right, there is clearly no connection between Trump Org and Donald Trump...totally separate things... 

/insert massive fucking eye roll here/

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.2  TᵢG  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    2 years ago
But Trump was not found guilty of anything

Really?   Trump is the head of the organization that was found guilty on all 17 counts of tax evasion and instead of dealing with the story, you leap to defend Trump by noting that this trial was against his company and not him personally (thus he could not possibly be found guilty by this trial).

And you bizarrely ignore the fact that Trump is the head of this organization.   So either he knew what was going on or he is incompetent.   

No big surprise, Trump defenders will split hairs and claim that until Trump himself is shown to be personally guilty by a court of law, he has done no wrong.

I need a word describing this apologetic tactic that is stronger than pathetic ... contemptible might work.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
1.1.3  MrFrost  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.2    2 years ago

I need a word describing this apologetic tactic that is stronger than pathetic ... contemptible might work.

Deplorable? 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.4  TᵢG  replied to  MrFrost @1.1.3    2 years ago

Was intentionally avoiding that one.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2  TᵢG    2 years ago
The company's conviction — coupled with the prosecution's explosive claim at trial that Mr. Trump was "explicitly sanctioning tax fraud" — could now reverberate through the 2024 presidential race, providing early fodder for opponents and their attack ads.

Naah, Trump supporters will claim that he was not found personally guilty so no big deal; no reflection whatsoever on Trump's personal business practices as head of the organization.   They will also claim that the lawsuit was politically motivated and thus rigged ... tainted jury ... you name it.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
2.1  Greg Jones  replied to  TᵢG @2    2 years ago
"explicitly sanctioning tax fraud" 
How did he do that? Were his lawyers in on it?
Tell us what you know
 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.1  TᵢG  replied to  Greg Jones @2.1    2 years ago

Where did I state that Trump "explicitly sanctioned tax fraud"?    That was a claim by the prosecutor.    My point was about how Trump supporters will deal with this 17-count conviction of Trump's company in response to the author's musing about how this conviction will reverberate through the 2024 presidential race.

The important part of the quote from the article is in bold:

The company's conviction — coupled with the prosecution's explosive claim at trial that Mr. Trump was "explicitly sanctioning tax fraud" — could now reverberate through the 2024 presidential race, providing early fodder for opponents and their attack ads.

And ... here is what I wrote (which you ignored):

TiG@2Naah, Trump supporters will claim that he was not found personally guilty so no big deal; no reflection whatsoever on Trump's personal business practices as head of the organization.   They will also claim that the lawsuit was politically motivated and thus rigged ... tainted jury ... you name it.
 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3  TᵢG    2 years ago

This could be a key point in helping the GoP detach from Trump.    I am not sure this is sufficiently extreme because the GoP has allowed the Trump parasite to bore so deep into its core, but one would think this would shake things up a bit.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1  seeder  JBB  replied to  TᵢG @3    2 years ago

Trump could be banned from doing business in New York now...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.1  TᵢG  replied to  JBB @3.1    2 years ago

Indeed.   Rightly so.   And should apply to his two executive sons as well.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
4  Gsquared    2 years ago

That's a good start.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
5  bbl-1    2 years ago

Yeah well, the Trump Organization has been proven in a court of law to be corrupt and crooked.

On the other hand though, 'the Trump' still remains free to whine, complain, lie, accuse and most importantly, continue to grift the weak and insipid.  Truth and justice moves too damn slow.

 
 

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