The Swifties Are Right. Concerts Are Worth the Price.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
The Swifties Are Right. Concerts Are Worth the Price.
Paul Krugman makes the case for seeing more live music.
Everybody is talking about how expensive concert tickets are, and I’m here to tell you that live music isn’t as expensive as it could be. If you look at the entertainment pages at all, or even the business pages, you may have noticed that there’s a lot of concerts happening this summer. There are a couple of giant tours — Taylor Swift, Beyonce — and then also maybe more under the radar, just tons and tons of smaller live music events. I’m a 70-year-old wannabe hipster, and my next concert for which I currently have tickets is a band called Warpaint, just this very sort of offbeat, psychedelic, rocky stuff. It is a stunning $35 a ticket.
But in terms of the two big tours, Taylor Swift and Beyonce, the list prices on the tickets tend to be in the $100s. And we are seeing numbers in the thousands. I don’t know quite how high the biggest numbers are and how representative that is of what the average concertgoer is spending. But we are, certainly, seeing triple digit ticket prices out there.
Obviously, it’s not cheap if you’re spending hundreds or maybe thousands of dollars for a Taylor Swift concert. But, just wearing my economist hat here, if you compare ticket prices to people’s incomes, live music is actually a bit of a bargain compared to what it was, say, in the 19th century. Jenny Lind, arguably the first sort of semi-modern style superstar, was a soprano from Sweden, the Swedish Nightingale, and did a mega tour of the United States in the early 1850s organized by PT Barnum.
And we have some facts on it. And we know that her first concert, which was in New York, tickets were about $6 each. At the time, GDP per person in the United States was around $120. It’s now about $76,000, or around 600 times as much.
So if you were to scale up by the fact that we’ve had inflation and economic growth, the Jenny Lind tickets were the equivalent of something like $3,500 today. So in fact, people were paying more for tickets to see Jenny Lind than they’re paying to see Taylor Swift now. So superstar concerts, which are the special thing here, why are they cheaper relative to people’s income than they were in the 19th century?
The answer, I think, is that technology has really changed music. There are two big breakthroughs. One is just the ability to record music. So in the past, the only way to hear music was to go to a live performance. And now, most of us listen to most of our music in some recorded form.
I watch live musical performances every night. And I do not go out every night. It’s just that there is YouTube.
But the other is that there was a technological breakthrough, much unheralded, in the late 1960s that made it possible to have really, really big concerts where you could actually hear something. So something like The Beatles at Shea Stadium was purely about being there, because apparently, by all accounts, nobody could hear a thing because they hadn’t actually figured out how to do it yet.
But now, you can actually hear Taylor Swift, and what she’s singing, and some sense of the quality of it with 80,000 people alongside you. And that really means that this experience of hearing your idol live is something that everybody has access to in a way that really wasn’t the case in the past.
So it’s both demand and supply. Demand is down because people can listen to recorded music, which wasn’t possible in the past. On the supply side, live music can be delivered to much, much larger groups of people than before because of modern sound systems. And so increased supply, reduced demand, lower price. That’s economics.
Live music, especially non-superstar live music, is really a bargain these days. So I’m going to give a plug and say, go out there and do attend live concerts. Pay for those tickets — maybe not the super expensive superstar tickets, but the many, many other excellent concerts that you can go to.
Because in the end, although we can listen to music on recordings, and I do, tons of it, there’s something really special about live concerts. And I actually think that people do too little of it.
Harry Styles recently concluded tour grossed approximately 500 million dollars from 169 shows. That is roughly 3 million dollars per show. His average attendance is 15 -20,000 per show. That comes out to roughly $175 per ticket.
According to Paul Krugman it is worth it.
To me, this is along the same lines as a ticket to a baseball game costing 100 dollars. It is not a matter of it being "worth it', it is a matter of being able to sell the tickets.
There are most likely millions of Harry Styles or Taylor Swift fans who dont have $175 dollars or more to spend for a musical concert, just like they cannot afford to go to a baseball game. In the meantime Taylor Swift will be a billionaire, if she isnt already.
I can afford it, but I do not see the value in paying hundreds of dollars for an average seat in a concert.
One can even buy tickets that cost thousands of dollars per seat. Give me a break. What performance is worth that much for a seat (no matter how good)?
If you are a 12 year old girl whose parents make 50,000 dollars a year between them, it is highly unlikely that they will give you 200 dollars to see a one time Taylor Swift concert. So millions are priced out of attendance from the gitgo. That is kind of sad, to me anyway. It shouldnt cost 200 dollars to listen to someone sing.
I wouldn't pay that that much for a ticket, even if she was up there naked and jumped me after the show. the only positive thing I can say about her is that she had the good sense to dump country/western and cross over to pop.
Back in my youth saw many concerts from backstage or from comp seats.
Not so many shows I want to see these days especially not at these prices.
Crowds just aren't my thing anymore no matter the artist.
were you at the dead's europe '72 tour at folsom field in boulder when some guy in an usher's uniform came out before the 2nd set and tossed bags of weed out to the crowd in front of the stage? that's about the only thing I remember about that show, and I was the designated driver. I used to get comp tickets from the A&R guys to ebbett's field in downtown denver when I was a grunt in the record business in the mid 70's.
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meh, I stopped going to concerts when the cost of a ticket, a bag of weed, and the alcohol I could smuggle into the venue exceeded $25 total.
I hate concerts and live music. It's too loud, I can't hear myself think, people think I'm supposed to talk to them if we're in a bar and I'm old. I know that. Besides the music at a concert doesn't sound anything like it does when you play an album
I don't like live music for the same reasons. It's too expansive, too loud and too many people. I have a better seat in my living room.
the last concert I went to was van halen's on the wagon tour. it was so fucking loud I couldn't tell the songs apart. then I couldn't hear for 3 days afterward and the tickets were hideously expensive. fuck that.
My two kids and their five kids are visiting from out of town. My wife’s three kids and their spouses spent the day here yesterday visiting with everyone. I was considering sneaking out to a concert to get some peace and quiet!
I love going to concerts. But there is no way in hell I'm paying more than $50 for a ticket. In addition I will not attend a concert at an "arena" type venue. The sound quality is always garbage. I prefer smaller venues
Last concert I attended cost me $90 for 2 tickets. 4 bands, 5 hours. With the concerts I attend in the smaller venues, you stand a very good chance of meeting the artist without having to pay extra for "VIP" access. They come right out into the crowd and join us. while others are on stage.
I truly do not get the Taylor Swift phenomenon. I sat through several of her songs the other day because I was too polite to tell my stepson to turn that fucking garbage off. Seriously. He got a pair of tickets for her concert but won’t sell them for less than $5,000. You couldn’t pay me 5k to sit through that noise. This country has gone insane. Barbie grossed twice off what Oppenheimer did on opening day. Enough said.
Neither do I. My wife has been on a serious Harry Styles kick. I'm not a fan. She was trying to get me to buy into going to a future concert and I told her to take someone else who actually likes the music.
From the several reviews that I've seen/read now, the trailers don't match all that well with the movies. Barbie has a 90% favorability rating and by all accounts is a fun movie from the point of view of a woman/mother reminiscing on her childhood through her daughter's dolls. I'll end up seeing it sometime this coming weekend or the next with my wife. The other is a biopic (Oppenheimer) of a man who nobody liked when he was alive. I'll end up seeing this when it streams, though. Watching someone do math is not my idea of high entertainment. LOL!
On paper Oppenheimer sounds dry. On the screen though it is apparently spectacular. I am curious to see how they accomplished that, although I wont rush off to the theater today.
I want to see Oppenheimer. I will wait until I can stream it
My wife and I saw Oppenheimer on Saturday and it was a very well made film. The theater lobby was filled with pink everything and males and females in pink head to toe. I’m not sure I’d even be able to sit through a whole movie staring Barbie. We tried watching the Barbie Dream House Challenge on HGTV and I fell asleep five minutes into it. Just awful. But I’m also the guy who doesn’t like superhero movies.
Good to know! It makes me feel better on wanting to see it.
Shrug...
I'm certain I'd not be alowed to see this with my wife. She loves her HGTV, but I unually find even the best of these shows derivative and boring so augment my amusement with off colored banter. She hates it and chases me to my fish room. LOL!
Umm... then we have nothing further to talk about. Hahaha jk. I love me some nerd shit.
I've seen the newest Mission Impossible, the newest Indiana Jones, Cocaine Bear, Guardians of the Galaxy 3, Ant Man Quantumania, John Wick 4, Dungeons & Dragons Honor Among Thieves in the movie theater this year.
I liked "Fat Man and Little Boy" and the guy that played Oppenheimer (Dwight Shultz?) played him well. I think Cillian Murphy will do a good job, too
We saw it in a Warehouse Theater. Once you see a movie in that place you’ll never go to a regular theater again. Leather reclining seats, space to walk down the aisle, actual food at the concessions stand, and a full bar with 20+ beers on tap that you can bring into the theater. Times have changed!
I don't tend to gravitate to the overpriced food and beer, but we do use the theater with the leather reclining seats. I got the refillable popcorn bucket and it's more than paid for itself already.
Taylor Swift is in the Songwriters Hall Of Fame, and I dont get it either. When it was announced a few months ago that every one of the 10 most popular songs in the country (at that time) was a Taylor Swift song, I listened to some of them. Pure mediocrity.
All top 40 is mediocre.
Every song of hers sounds the same to me, and the juvenile lyrics could have easily been written by an average teenager. Her pop sound is so basic and redundant.
The cost of anything in a capitalist economy is worth what people will pay. As long as idiots and their money are so easily parted ticket sales will be high.
Just pulled up Taylor Swift on YouTube, which is where I get all my music these days.
She's nice looking, wholesome, and puts on a good show. But her voice is thin, weak, unremarkable, and forgettable. She ranks nowhere close to the best singers of yesteryear, particularly the likes of Ann Wilson, Linda Ronstadt, Karen Carpenter, Ella, and the ABBA ladies to name just a few.
One thing you do have to give her credit for, She either writes or co-writes all her own songs (200 give or take) and averages a new album every two years, It's not Dolly Parton prolific in song writing, but still impressive.
Compared to Linda, Taylor isn't in the same league.
Who would dare to compare?
Kavika - Completely agree. My daughter (27) is a swifty from the beginning and caught her show in Philly this summer. I have listened to her music but don't get it (maybe generational).
I've loved her voice since I first heard her sing Different Drum in the late 60's through MariachiCanciones de Mi Padre.
I can't really pick a favorite but if forced to:
It's absolutely worth the price people are paying. There is no question.
How do we know? People are paying it.
The value of anything is whatever buyer and seller agree it is.
Someone is selling oranges for 100 dollars apiece. 1000 people say hell no. One person pays 100 dollars for an orange. Is the orange worth 100 dollars? I dont think so.
It was to the person who paid for it.
I remember being taught that the market value represents the maximum amount a customer is willing to pay for something. Maybe your issue is a definition thing.
So you think that an orange that 999 people said hell no to at the price of 100 dollars is worth 100 dollars because one person would pay it?
LOL.
What do they say? A fool and his money are soon parted.
I'll take a bunch of really rich fools!
Really it depends on what kind of market is out there.
That one was, yes.
But it makes no difference what you or I think. A buyer and seller agreed on the value.
If you want to see this in one of its most perfect forms look at baseball cards. Generally speaking, a 50 year old piece of cardboard has negative value... i.e. you have to pay someone to haul it away with the rest of the trash.
But put Hank Aaron's picture on it and suddenly everything changes.
Indeed, the market does predominantly determine price, but the market is a group (typically large) of buyers. One guy willing to pay an absurd price for something does not, in itself, establish fair market value. That might work in eccentric markets such as rare art, but not for general goods & services.
In the beginning of her tour, there were reports of thousands of dollars being asked for individual tickets to Taylor Swift concerts. I dont know how many were sold at those prices but it was probably some. But I bet you that for every one that was sold for 2000 dollars there were a hundred or more people who said hell no I'm not going to pay that price.
To me, this is conclusive evidence that the tickets were not , generally speaking, worth 2000 dollars.
Yes, the fact that a few will pay outlier prices does not establish FMV at those prices. In this case, FMV is roughly the standard deviation.
Thus, for a given class of seats, the FMV is basically what most will pay for that class of seating.
You're ignoring the fact that all concert tickets are not the same.
You're also ignoring the fact she sold out most of her shows, which would indicate that supply exceeded demand and therefore the tickets were actually worth more than the published price.
People can say what they want about Swift, but the woman has had an outstanding career and has a very good marketing team.
I read she is making around $10 million per concert with all the related sales like shirts, etc.
Not too shabby!
More than I make in 2 whole weeks! LOL!
Do you believe that other entertainment is also overpriced? Theme parks like Disneyland where people spend hundreds of dollars to wait in line for hours to spend a few minutes on a ride? How about sporting events? A Super Bowl ticket cost $10 in 1967 and $8869 in 2022.
True value is whatever one is willing to pay for something.
I don't like mint chocolate chip ice cream and if it was on sale for a dollar I wouldn't buy it.
Whoever buys it determined it was the right price for them.
Now, German chocolate ice cream, on the other hand, I would gladly pay $6 a half gallon for!
I agree.
What I find ludicrous is people buying things they can't afford (and may not even like) in an attempt to impress others. I used to sew my own blouses because I could make better clothes for a fraction of the mall price.
What I find puzzling is why Taylor Swift tickets are being singled out as so overpriced in comparison with all of the other ridiculously overpriced things in today's world.
That is value per an individual, not fair market value.
Beats me. I say more power to her--make all she can. Give the people what they want!
The whole reason you go see a show at a giant stadium is so the prices are lower. Jenny Lind charged 6/3500 dollars but there were probably a few hundred people at the show, how much would taylor swift charge per ticket to a show with only 300 tickets and probably a meet and greet with all the attendees after. Todays ticket prices are a rip-off especially considering most of these giant stadiums are built using public funds so we're subsidizing Taylor Swifts enterprise whether we attend the show or not.