OK Supreme Court Strikes Down State Funding for Religious Schools
Radical right-wing Oklahoma Superintendent of Schools Ryan Walters has openly stated that he intends to challenge the concept that there is a "separation of church and state" mandated by the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.
Walters did that by having Oklahoma become the first state to allocate state tax dollars for a private religious school, and he received the backing of the state's Governor Kevin Stitt. The state's Attorney General told him it was unconstitutional. Now that state's Supreme Court has ruled against Walters today and agreed with the AG.
Oklahoma AG Gentner Drummond argued to the court that St. Isidore of Seville Catholic Virtual School is "Catholic in every way. Catholic in teaching and Catholic in employment." He argued that using tax dollars to fund the school "is about the state creation of a religious school, which unequivocally establishes religion." The school was expected to receive over $2.5 million dollars in taxpayer funds, which would come directly out of the funding allocated for the public school system.
The state Supreme Court held that the funding violated the Constitution because the school "will evangelize the Catholic school curriculum while being funded by the state."
It seems likely, however, that Walters will attempt to take this case to the US Supreme Court. If the new Trump-created conservative majority takes his case and rules in his favor, it was upend over five decades of precedent and radically transform not just the school system in America but will set off christian nationalism battles all over the country as Republicans attempt to force christianity in the public square, just as Dobbs did for abortion.
That seems to be exactly what Walters wants.
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Ryan Walters got thumped by the OK Supreme Court.
Good. People's taxes shouldn't pay for private schools.
Especially religious schools and as OK Supreme Court stated it violates the constitution.
Right, they need to keep wasting it on the sadly performing public schools,
This can be your MAGA slogan, "Defund Out Public Schools!"
Just like comrade weingarten likes it.
So you have no problem with your taxes paying for someone else's private and expensive education?
and/or religious education? On your dime?
So you have no problem with people signing for a loan and Biden using your taxpayer dollars to forgive their loan?
and/or basket weaving classes on your dime?
but, but, but what about...
Exactly, glad you agree
I don't agree. thumpers can go stuff their dominionist bullshit somewhere off public property...
Didn't hear anyone crying when all those COVID business loans got forgiven.
How the Paycheck Protection Program went from good intentions to a huge free-for-all
PPP loan forgiveness
Or are you only opposed to loan forgiveness when it is for people that actually need the money instead of wealthy businesses?
covid financial programs were a huge scam that was a windfall for connected republicans.
The intent was good, the actual process was very poorly thought out.
You know that Trump also filed for the PP loans and also was forgiven payback?
his entire family got a ride on that gravy train...
The Biden family has been sucking off the government teet for over 50 years. Hunter has never worked a honest day in his life and you’re bagging on Trumps kids.
Hilarious!
Love it. Very apt of the demon spawn.
support freedom from religion and help stop the spread of defective DNA.
Support freedom from the tyranny of left wing kookery. Monitor all medicated sky screamers and delusional crackpots and open more state hospital beds to house them when they snap.
Fire up the ECT machines nurse Ratched
So this is how a Supreme Court is supposed to work. Who 'da thunk...
those judges must be close to retirement ...
Good! I just hope that SCOTUS upholds the state's ruling
I wouldn't count on that after today.
They'll have to check their christian nationalist playbook first, see what right wing Jeeezus says about it.
... and no more of that render unto caesar bullshit, geezus is lord and trump is their savior...
This is the right result, but will SCOTUS continue down the rabbit hole of breaching the historic wall of separation between church and state? We can only hope not.
too many mackerel snappers and thumpers on that bench...
probably the ones with trump's genitals in their mouths... you know, the federalists...
all this ignorance makes me think of rich bitch devos and her dream to abolish public education
or defund like jbb said
care to restate your position in light of current events?
yeah, I didn't think so ...
the xtian nationalist heritage foundation...
Ooooh Baba Yaga ….. scary.
the lowest hanging fruit...
Yep, lots of those here on the left
I and others here have been warning of the Dominionism movement for many years here. Of course the right kept calling it our boogie man, but it was clear from the beginning that it was real and steadily gaining momentum. Now it’s bold enough to just flat out say that it is challenging the one thing that has kept it at bay - separation of church and state. The rwnj’s here should admit that either they were wrong or that they were just lying their asses off about the growth of Dominionism.
Amazingly, America discounted the warnings on NT.
Who said anything about America? Why does your snark always cross over into total irrelevance?
Are you sober? We have been warning the dumbass NT rwnj’s HERE that their heros are traveling in a Trojan horse.
funny how those most motivated to display the 10 commandments are the least likely to follow them...
I'm one of those others!
There has been a steady drum beat from the theocratic dominionists claiming that there is no such thing as the separation of church and state. They couldn't be more wrong.
If not America, who were you attempting to warn?
North America, not so much South
affirmative!
are you positive ? or neutral about the negatives you flick out and about, like plugged into an i socket saw through dim wit, cause my circuit you cannot break, my fuse light, cause it just amps me up and readies me for any fight, cause like Jane Says, Nothings Shocking !
Are you high?
look, if you want to think that you weren't talking about warning Americans
Parts of this thread were removed for veiled insults. Knock it off. Only warning.
The OG religionists haven't excepted they are losing their grip of white male dominance. This is not 1950 anymore and there are far too many people that don't except their hypocritical bullshit.
The race card, i wonder how long it would be before someone pulled it.
So instead of trying to insult me, why don't you respond with a cogent point?
Sure... and you both either miss the point of my post, or more likely want to distract from it. I'm done playing your games today Texan. Either respond to my original post of go away.
Playing the race card, eh?
Aha! Caught in the act!
Or as Buzz might say (when he's actually being one and not merely playing one on TV) :
in flagrante delicto!
This white male is a non-fascist woke white male.
Tired of being trashed for my sex and race. It's how I was born.
To racists the fact that you are white makes you an evil suppressor. Doesn't matter that you have never done that, or that you are a truly good human being. Just like to a white supremist all people of color are inferior. it's intellectually lazy but that's where we are.
You are the Moby Dick to many because of your skin and gender.
That is an outright . . . untruth. In fact, you may not can see it but Cjcold is a longtime stated friend of mine on NT. I take strong exception to you trying to split him off into a camp that he does not belong in either through hook or crook! These are outrageous times on social media and truth must be restored to its rightful place! And I, for one, am glad to have friends who can see both (all) sides of complex issues and not just stand with their so-called, "Tribe." For that matter, I do not stand with any black person, be s/he conservative or liberal on "just because." Yes! Truth, integrity, and good faith efforts matter all-round.
Cjcold, you are loved for your person. I wish others could see personage and stop their "burrowing" to undermine good in good people with scandalous, ill-conceived, rhetoric. The facts of history are what they are and good people can always point to the good people throughout history-of all stripes-especially white who have "stood in the gaps" of history to support the underserved, the defeated, the ones who would not make it because they were not respected by the other sorts of people who for God only knows what reasons seek to suppress them (minorities).
I remember Pollster Frank Luntz, during I think it was the 2022 mid-terms on CNN describe how some Conservative measure or conceive their 'running' points of interest (designed to win elections): By what policies poll. . . not by what is morally right. By a damn polling criteria some conservatives push those policies and do not take account of what is best for men, women, and children. Mr. Luntz did not skip a beat in his matter of fact statement, did not flinch or smile, to him or his point MIGHT is the ticket to what wins in elections. . . not what is good to people. It's very sad, when an entire human group's or groups' existence can be dumbed down to whom possesses majority/might to control them for power sake alone.
Anyway, men like you are a blessing to good people of all stripes and even when the chips are down in some of these complex discussions where no one comes out ahead or smelling like roses, especially white males of a certain point of view, trust in yourself that I am fully and comprehensively aware from many a historical writer that their have always, always, always, (3 times means its certain to my mind) been white men who have stood up for the defenseless and powerless even to the point of taking on their own bullies within the tribe.
Abundant big hugs to you and yours.
Then I wasn't talking about you. White males were at the top of the class ladders in the US for centuries and today the same types of people are using terms like Multicultural Marxism, CRS, diversity, and Great Replacement. to cling to their power structure is sickening. IF that's you then I call you out. IF that IS NOT you then go about your business.
No, being a racist, misogynistic prick and denying the same opportunities for women & minorities for decades make that class of people evil suppressors. Nothing more, nothing less.
Well, since most of us are not and never have been any of those things, one wonders what your point is.
That a few “white” people are bigoted pricks? Okay, agreed.
See 4.2.6
It's seem to largely be (and still probably not ALL of them) largely tied to a certain segment of Evangelical steeped in politics and the alt+right.
But that isn't the point, racists attack groups based on skin color. doesn't matter the skin color.
That isn't your point.
No it's your point as so many people have pointed out.
See #4.2.7
The same can be said about left leaning segments of the population. So again, one asks. What was your point?
Yep, that segment of the population that believes that, complains a lot and gives back little.
Your actual identity is no no longer "what you were born as"!
Oh no-- what matters now is what you identify as!
KID IDENTIFIES AS A CAT!!!
I thought Catholic schools did a decent job of educating kids and teaching them universal values. but the left wing experts seem to think this is better for them.....
I'm sure that you think so but history especially in OK tell a much different story, I suppose that you have never heard of the ''Indian Boarding Schools''. Enlighten yourself and read their history
Two things can be true at once. There are innumerable great Catholic schools.
Yes, Priests have proven that to be true.
Hey Kavika..
After reading this article earlier today I start wandering around reading up on Catholic schools [I am laid up, had nothing better to do] .. I came across this article, just read your comment and thought I would share it with you.
OK Catholic groups explore Indian boarding schools' history, legacy (oklahoman.com)
Peace....
They have learned nothing at al Colour, one only has to see what is happening on some of the reservations currently to see the Church (s) haven't changed all that much.
I do not put much stock in anything churches do / say .. especially catholic churches. Yet I do believe that once a conversation, preferably an honest conversation gets started, more people become aware, and the conversation can then expand.
I have been aware of the horrors of 'Indian Boarding Schools' since childhood - but once I started reading today, I was gobsmacked at the number of 'schools' there were in the United States. and that they operated into the 1960s.
I am a bit of a cynic Kavika, yet I do believe that even if the actions are self-serving, they can still be beneficial.
Colour, the goal of the ''Indian schools'', Christian Religions and the US Government was to ''kill the Indian and save the man''...the goal was to assimulate the red man into the white world or kill them all. Thousands of years of culture/language/inventions gone, vanish so we could fulfill the dream of the white government/churches.. The church hasn't changed that much, Catholic Bishops just completed a ''planning'' to increase the outreach to natives and they acknowledge the historical trauma they brought on the Indians. As most all Indians said, ''too little, too late'' Get into the 21st century if you want an outreach talk to us, talking among yourself does nothing but ingrain your own prejudices and lies.
What white Christians have been unable or unwilling to accept is that to Indians there is no absolute in religion to us. We may adopt some of the trappings of Christianity but we will never give up or toss aside our own beliefs many of which predate any Christian belief.
What is happening on the White Mountain Apache reservation with Christian groups is the perfect example of the inability of the white Christian to see us as humans.
Then by all means send your kids to Catholic schools and leave the rest of us alone. Oh... and relying on Townhall for logical and factual information will always leave you with neither.
People just bash Catholicism constantly.
I went to Catholic school for 12 years and there wasnt a minute of it where I thought they were leading me astray.
send your kids to Catholic schools and leave the rest of us alone
They can’t afford to. They want you to pay for it instead.
[✘]
I’m not a fan of govt paying off student loans but it’s a far different scenario than paying for religious education. You know this.
[✘]
Education is about science, language, skills, technology, communications, and all sorts of things that make humanity progress. Religion is the most digressive thing humanity has ever created.
Exactly, less indoctrination at universities, s/.
What if their student loans are for a divinity degree? do we get to discriminate against those students?
People bash everything constantly. It's what the internet was built for.../s
They should ask the Pope to open up the vault.
as they should, until it accepts responsibility, and is held accountable, for all of it's past nefarious activities...
Oh-- so that explains it!
Man alive you guys trigger easily.
You worry about the kids while flying "Fuck Joe Biden" flags.. Hilarious.
extremely difficult to explain the constitution to thumpers...
OK everyone, get back on track
[deleted][✘]
The Oklahoma Attorney General statement today on this ruling...
Like that was ever an issue.
Indeed!
After School Satan
i didn't know farmers grew the Constitution ./?
Sharp eyed aren't chaah!
In the past, Constitutions only grew in the wild-- but over time a small group of Horticulturists found a way to domesticate them.
(Rumour has it that they were actually members of an eponymous "After School Satan Club"-- but its never been proven).
You know the old saying:
You can lead a whore to culture but ________!
Any unbiased thinking person realizes that revenues collected from a parent for public schools, should follow their kids on the established cost per student basis, regardless of where they go to school. If not, they should be credited those tax revenues. The logic of fair.
Common sense if you’re not a socialist or commie.
Our socialist country did quite well with our Public School system. Millions of kids benefited from it and are still benefiting from it. Are there problems, sure there are, but you don't abandon a system because of problems, as the self proclaimed greatest country in the world we should address the problems and move on to a brighter future.
If only we can keep "Mom's for Freedom" out of the libraries and curriculum decisions.
Indeed, if our country can not take proper corrective action on its own for whatever reason, then you do the next best thing, you borrow from other nations/cultures/societies what works there and get the schools in better shape. Surely, there is a proper model existing somewhere that we can model ourselves on if all other efforts have failed to get good/great/excellent results.
I’m not saying abolish them. I’m saying parents should have a choice and the money should follow that choice. If public schools are the best choice, which in my opinion they should be, no problem. Parents would send their kids there.
The fact remains many feel they are not the best choice and not without cause.
Should people without children in schools not have to pay?
Should they be forced to pay failing public school systems?
They should join with the rest of us to find working solutions - whatever they may be.
“They should join with the rest of us to find working solutions - whatever they may be.”
Indeed.
Unfortunately, it is so much easier to spew platitudes and place blame than to acknowledge that solutions require a deeper understanding of the issue, a willingness to engage in constructive discussion, and (gasp) realize you may not get everything you want but at least are committed to doing something …as the lack of action only compounds the paralysis.
Emphatically.
People have been “joined” in that failed model for decades. That hasn’t worked as time has gone on and is getting worse in many public schools. Worse each year.
The definition of insanity is repeating the same mistakes over and over again and expecting different results.
Most parents aren’t insane
Most parents prefer the liberty of choices.
That is lack of logic and makes no sense at all. Should individuals mandate which entity should receive their tax dollars and which won't? Would this apply to big business ( corporate welfare)? Public utility companies? Public works projects? Funding the military? Funding law enforcement? Get the point ?
Opinions do vary ….
Thank you! I read that again and again looking for the sense and I didn't see it either.
How did I know that would be your answer? lol
Because you had no answer for that nonsense.
lolololol
Are we to assume that "logic" and "fair" are actually synonyms?
lol, exactly. Watching “academia” leak into conversation here reminds me of a few of those folks back in the college days. You know the type. Those who couldn’t do, so they taught …..
As it should be.
All's well that ends well!
preaching politics from the pulpit should result in immediate loss of tax exempt status and an IRS audit for back taxes.
Preaching politics from the pulpit is a historical tradition in the Black church. Black Americans are more likely than white Americans to say it is important for sermons to touch on political topics.
I realize how difficult it is for some people to distinguish between causes of social justice versus promotion of theocracy.
Is that a racial slur ? Are Black Americans more politically astute than White Americans? Are Black Americans more concerned about discrimination than White Americans? Please define the Black Church compared to White churches.
One thing for certain, Black churches have better music !
Not that your comment is remotely accurate but if it was, it would be many factors better than the Idiocracy being pushed by Dems these days.
Sadly, useful idiots eat that shit up with a serving spoon
maybe you can post the maga version of the constitution here for everyone to read...
... along with the maga bible pamphlet.
Your comment in 10 was about politics from the pulpit as was mine.
No, it’s a historical and current practice.
I don't care how organized religion catches fire, as long as it burns down to the ground...
Don’t need to. Already have one but useful idiots just can’t seem to make the connection
Much the same as the term "Uncle Tom" !
Black churches played an important role during during the Civil Rights movement of the 60s. (Apparently many of our schools today fail to teach that in classes today . . . or perhaps you were unfortunate in attending a school system that didin't teach that part of our history?)
Don’t lay around hoping, pick up a torch and get on with it.
Indeed!
Mahalia Jackson performing "Just a Closer Walk with Thee'" at the 1970 Newport Jazz Festival. Her show-stopping performance during the 70th birthday tribute to Louis Armstrong was a moving finale to the star-studded concert event. This is quite likely the last filmed performance of Jackson, who passed away in January 1972. Mahalia's performance of "Closer Walk" is dedicated to Armstrong, who joins her on-stage for a rousing finish.
Well since you're interested in churches burning down-- and since the role of The Black Church in The Civil Rights Movement was mentioned here, here is a list of attacks on Black Churches (Including some notable burnings)!
Enjoy!
Attacks against African-American churches in the United States have taken the form of arson, bombings, mass murder , hate crimes , and white supremacist -propelled domestic terrorism . This timeline documents acts of violence against churches with predominantly black leadership and congregations.
19th century
20th century
1951–1960
The list goes on. (Unfortunately in some of the cases the churches were burned a bit, but not completely destroyed. But you will be happy to know that many were, as you put it-- burned to the ground!
" . . . as long as it burns down to the ground . . . "
1961–1970
I stopped there-- there were many, many more--to many to list.
Here's the most recent one listed:
I was thinking that your wish:
I don't care how organized religion catches fire, as long as it burns down to the ground...
must be considered to be more than fulfilled!
not much needed to improve upon the job the lowest hanging fruit are doing to themselves...
Just keep laying around then.
radical thumpers are testing the constitution by crossing the wall of separation. they must be forced back onto church property by any legal means available...
That moron who is saying the bible must be taught in public schools 'was to push back at leftists'
That moron is welcome to send his spawn to private catholic schools on his dime.
White Christian Nationalists won't be satisfied until we are all wearing black hats and bonnets while stumbling through life staring at the ground. Subservience will never be part of the "American Dream".
Well that leaves me out. In this weather, I favor a Toquilla straw hat in natural beige.
Sure it isn't pointed and white? Beige from sun fade ?
I’m sure you know little about hats.
Me too, I prefer a Marine desert digital boonie.
Whew …. We are both safe ….,
Are we to assume (based on your comment) that you didn't watch the recent Presidential debate?
(Not that there's anything wrong with that...
)
You and the mouse in your pocket can assume as you like . Yes, I did watch the debate . Enlighten me as to how the the two relate .
Christian nationalism my ass. Money paid specifically for schools, should follow the kid. That or folks not sending their kids to public schools should get a tax break.
Continuing to subsidize failing public schools is insane.
See my 8.2
See 8.1.10, 8.2.1, 11.1.4 and 12
This bickering about every damn thing is really a country in the pits and thralls of defeatism.
Speak for yourself
My comment speaks for itself, yes. "You" can have the last word, because I am done with pointless bickering that resolves nothing.
lol …. I love that “you can have the last word” gambit. Almost as good as the PeeWee Herman gambit many of my friend on the left like to employ …. But not quite.
So do mine. Every one of them
Every one ….