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Port workers reach deal to end East Coast strike, union says

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  kavika  •  5 days ago  •  99 comments

By:   By Doyinsola Oladipo, David Shepardson (USA TODAY)

Port workers reach deal to end East Coast strike, union says
US dock workers and port operators have reached a tentative deal that will immediately end a three-day strike.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


By Doyinsola Oladipo, David ShepardsonReuters

  • Tentative deal includes a 62% wage hike over six years-source
  • Strike affected 36 ports, causing backlog of anchored ships
  • Biden administration sided with union, resisted calls to halt strike

NEW YORK/WASHINGTON/LOS ANGELES — A union representing U.S. dock workers and port operators have reached a tentative deal on wages that will end a three-day strike that has shut down shipping on the U.S. East Coast and Gulf Coast. the International Longshoremen's Association union and the United States Maritime Alliance said on Thursday.

The agreement extends the master contract between the union and port operators until Jan. 15, 2025, allowing negotiations to continue on other aspects of the contract. A joint statement did not specify what wages were agreed upon or the other terms that required negotiation.

"Effective immediately, all current job actions will cease and all work covered by the Master Contract will resume," the statement said.

The tentative agreement is for a wage hike of around 62% over six years, The Bergen Record, a part of the USA TODAY NETWORK, reported.

The workers union had been seeking a 77% raise while the employer group previously raised its offer to a nearly 50% hike.

The deal ends the biggest work stoppage of its kind in nearly half a century, which blocked unloading of container ships from Maine to Texas and threatened shortages of everything from bananas to auto parts, triggering a backlog of anchored ships outside major ports.

Agreement praised by Biden, Retail Federation


President Joe Biden praised the agreement in a statement released by the White House moments after the agreement was announced.

"I want to thank the union workers, the carriers, and the port operators for acting patriotically to reopen our ports and ensure the availability of critical supplies for Hurricane Helene recovery and rebuilding," Biden said. "Collective bargaining works, and it is critical to building a stronger economy from the middle out and the bottom up."

The Biden administration sided with the union, putting pressure on the port employers to raise their offer to secure a deal and citing the shipping industry's bumper profits since the COVID-19 pandemic.

"With the grace of God...it's going to hold," Biden told reporters at Joint Base Andrews after landing there following a storm damage tour of Georgia and Florida.

Taxes:IRS doubles number of states eligible for its free Direct File for tax season 2025

The administration repeatedly resisted calls from business trade groups and Republican lawmakers to use federal powers to halt the strike - a move that would undermine Democratic support among unions ahead of the Nov. 5 presidential election.

One of those trade groups echoed the President's praise in the wake of the tentative agreement.

"The decision to end the current strike and allow the East and Gulf coast ports to reopen is good news for the nation's economy," the National Retail Federation CEO Matthew Shay said in a statement.

The NRF had called upon the Biden administration to "use any and all available authority and tools" to end the strike in a statement released Monday.

Strike effects began at ports, deal avoids them hitting consumers


At least 45 container vessels that have been unable to unload were anchored outside the strike-hit East Coast and Gulf Coast ports by Wednesday, up from just three before the strike began on Sunday, according to Everstream Analytics.

The ILA launched the strike by 45,000 port workers, its first major work stoppage since 1977, on Tuesday after talks for a new six-year contract broke down.

The strike affected 36 ports − including New York, Baltimore and Houston − that handle a range of containerized goods.

Back to hoarding toilet paper?Amid port strike, some consumers are panic-buying goods

Economists have said the port closures would not initially raise consumer prices because companies had accelerated shipments in recent months of key goods. However, a prolonged stoppage would have eventually filtered through, with food prices likely to react first, according to Morgan Stanley economists.

"After the first week, we can expect some impact on perishable products like bananas, other fruits, seafood, and coffee, meaning fewer goods are reaching consumers, potentially driving up prices," Tony Pelli, global practice director for security & resilience at BSI Americas, told Reuters.

USA TODAY's James Powel and Francesca Chambers contributed to this report.

(This story has been updated with new information.)

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Kavika
Professor Principal
1  seeder  Kavika     5 days ago

A fairly predictable result, if you are concerned about a toilet paper shortage you can rest easy.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
1.1  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Kavika @1    5 days ago
if you are concerned about a toilet paper shortage you can rest easy.

Crazy wabbits. The majority of toilet paper and paper towels in the US are MADE in the US. What small amount isn't, comes from Mexico and/or Canada. TRUCKED IN ring a bell?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
1.1.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1.1    5 days ago

There has alrady been a run on TP....No need to pucker.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
1.1.2  evilone  replied to  Kavika @1.1.1    5 days ago
There has alrady been a run on TP....

My Fox News watching coworker was all worried this week and was telling everybody to stock up on TP,  diapers and formula... I always have 4 to 6 months worth of TP at any given time anyway. LOL.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.3  devangelical  replied to  Kavika @1.1.1    5 days ago

maga sure do love their detrimental US economic calamities ...

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
1.1.4  Split Personality  replied to  Kavika @1.1.1    5 days ago

The only TP made in China will have Trump or Bidens face on it, lol.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  Kavika @1    5 days ago
A fairly predictable result,

Very predictable considering the democrats needed to get that postponed until after the election.

I'm sure the details will arrive ... once again ..AFTER THE ELECTION.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
1.2.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Vic Eldred @1.2    5 days ago
Very predictable considering the democrats needed to get that postponed until after the election.

I'm sure the details will arrive ... once again ..AFTER THE ELECTION.

I knew I could count on you for another conspiracy theory.

Actually, it's very predictable from history and from my spending 45 years in that industry.

Cheers

 
 
 
goose is back
Junior Guide
1.2.2  goose is back  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.2    5 days ago
democrats needed to get that postponed until after the election.

Of course they did, I wonder how much the union boss got for calling a temporary end, because his $900,000 isn't enough!  

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
1.2.3  JBB  replied to  goose is back @1.2.2    5 days ago

[deleted][]

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
1.2.4  Krishna  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.2    5 days ago
I'm sure the details will arrive ... once again ..AFTER THE ELECTION.

Actually I'm sure more details will arrive, once again (!) BOTH BEFORE (and to a lesser degree AFTER) THE ELECTION!

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
1.2.5  Tacos!  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.2    4 days ago
Very predictable considering the democrats needed to get that postponed until after the election.

Awww. Tough break, huh?

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
1.2.6  Greg Jones  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.2    3 days ago

The real reason that it was temporarily settled, is because a strike would have negatively impacted Harris's chance of winning the election. The electorate would have rightly blamed the Biden/Harris administration for any higher prices and shortages. Nothing conspiratorial about it.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2  JBB    5 days ago

Good!

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
2.1  Krishna  replied to  JBB @2    5 days ago
Good!

I agree! jrSmiley_4_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
3  sandy-2021492    5 days ago

Good!  I was worried that the strike would affect the distribution of supplies in states hit by Hurricane Helene.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4  JohnRussell    5 days ago

The Biden administration worked the phones and facilitated this settlement. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
4.1  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @4    5 days ago

Gonna need some backup for that, please.....................

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
4.1.2  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @4.1    5 days ago

There was an article in the news yesterday on it.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4    5 days ago

YOU BET HE DID!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.1  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.2    3 days ago

This October surprise sure didn't work out as you had hoped, eh?  What with Joe working out a deal?  It can only add to Kamala's favor/advantage.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.3  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @4    5 days ago

Yes, it is thanks to the Biden Administration that this happened so quickly.  I saw that mentioned elsewhere, not sure where.  Kudos to the Biden administration.  

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
5  Just Jim NC TttH    5 days ago
The Biden administration sided with the union, putting pressure on the port employers to raise their offer to secure a deal and citing the shipping industry's bumper profits since the COVID-19 pandemic.

In line with calling on the companies and ownerships to "pay their fair share" (still after all these years, undefined) in taxes. A double whammy sure to boost prices in the consumer ranks. "Knock, knock, knock. Who's there? Your old friend inflation. Thanks for opening the door for me."

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @5    5 days ago

Best try again, JJ.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
5.2  Split Personality  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @5    5 days ago
"Knock, knock, knock. Who's there? Your old friend inflation. Thanks for opening the door for me."

You think a $$4.00 dollar an hour raise for 50,000 workers out of 157 Million workers will affect inflation?

What it will do is slightly increase the average hourly wage rate of 4% over the current inflation rate of 2.5%

per today's labor numbers.

SIWAY

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.2.1  devangelical  replied to  Split Personality @5.2    5 days ago

oh no! the money needed for 4 pizzas and a case of beer on sunday pushes the US economy over the brink ...

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
5.2.2  Snuffy  replied to  Split Personality @5.2    5 days ago
You think a $$4.00 dollar an hour raise for 50,000 workers out of 157 Million workers will affect inflation?

Do you think a business is going to willingly accept an $8 million dollar increase per week for labor costs or will they pass it along in charges to the consumers of their business (in this case shippers who use the port)? Its been my experience that business does not willingly accept extra costs all that often, rather finding ways to send the increased costs to their customers so it inevitably ends up costing the end consumer more money. 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
5.2.3  Krishna  replied to  Snuffy @5.2.2    5 days ago
Do you think a business is going to willingly accept an $8 million dollar increase per week for labor costs or will they pass it along in charges to the consumers of their business (in this case shippers who use the port)?

Of course OTOH, if workers make more money, some will spend more money-- which will help other sectors of the economy!

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
5.2.4  Snuffy  replied to  Krishna @5.2.3    4 days ago

Yep, some who make more money will also spend more of that money and that will help other sectors of the economy. Which changes the balance of supply and demand, which in turn impacts inflation which was the original argument. I'm not saying the workers don't deserve a pay raise, I just wish I could have gotten pay raises like that percentage when I was working. And I'm very glad that this was worked out so quickly as a long strike against the East Coast ports would definitely have had a larger negative impact on inflation. 

But this is not fully settled yet, only kicked down the road till January. And how much this does impact the economy country-wide has not yet been seen, that will take time to advance fully. But we can be sure that this will have some impact on inflation.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
5.2.5  Split Personality  replied to  Snuffy @5.2.2    4 days ago
That depends on how long the strike will go on.

However, there are estimates. A one-week strike would cost the US economy about $ 2.1 billion, according to an estimate Monday from the Anderson Economic Group.

Most of that would be a $1.5 billion loss in the   value of the goods that couldn’t be delivered on time, such as perishable goods. Transportation companies, including ship lines and ports, would lose $400 million in profits, while striking workers and those temporarily laid off would lose $200 million in wages

Massive East Coast port strike: five things to know | CNN Business

So your logic, if these numbers are accurate, is that $392 million in profits will necessitate price increases and therefore inflation.

The real problem is that there is no excess portage, some ships sit off of NJ for 6 to 8 weeks waiting to unload.

That alone adds $1 million or more to the cost of the goods.

This is what happens when the economy is humming along and expanding.

We saw it in LA, we saw it in Baltimore.  Poor access, poor management of empty trailers , flatbeds, goosenecks and modern warehouse space exacerbates limited port facilities that no one wants expanded in their back yards.

Can you imagine the prices of goods if we had open modern accessible ports?

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
5.2.6  Greg Jones  replied to  Split Personality @5.2    3 days ago
"You think a $$4.00 dollar an hour raise for 50,000 workers out of 157 Million workers will affect inflation?"

No, but a prolonged strike would definitely lead to shortages, supply chain disruption, and higher inflation.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
5.2.7  Greg Jones  replied to  Krishna @5.2.3    3 days ago
"if workers make more money, some will spend more money"

Good news for a few thousand union workers who will undoubtedly spend more, but the larger population will end up eventually paying more for essentials.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
5.2.8  Split Personality  replied to  Greg Jones @5.2.6    3 days ago

Already addressed, and moot, since the labor issues are already settled.  All they need to hash out is how slowly or quickly the ports will be allowed to automate different functions.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
6  charger 383    5 days ago

Good for Union for getting a good deal for members while they still had a position of strength 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7  Jeremy Retired in NC    5 days ago

And with that it just became more expensive to get, well virtually everything.  Another fuck up by the Biden Administration.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
7.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7    5 days ago

So according to you, it's Biden's fault. With that logic, every raise given to unions will b the president's fault...LMAO

How about hn the SS lines raise their rates, is that a Biden fuck up as well. If true then the prior president sucked.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Kavika @7.1    5 days ago
So according to you, it's Biden's fault. With that logic, every raise given to unions will b the president's fault...LMAO

So you don't grasp how they will get the finances to pay these higher wages? 

How about hn the SS lines raise their rates, is that a Biden fuck up as well.

If Biden was as instrumental in the negotiations as you all want everybody to think, then yes, it's on him.  Not hard to grasp.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
7.1.2  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.1    5 days ago
So you don't grasp how they will get the finances to pay these higher wages? 

You are the one that doesn't understand the industry the way you think you do.

If Biden was as instrumental in the negotiations as you all want everybody to think, then yes, it's on him.  Not hard to grasp.

Keep flaying away since I never said that Biden was instrumental in this, that would be you trying to make a point about something that doesn't exist.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.3  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Kavika @7.1.2    5 days ago
You are the one that doesn't understand the industry the way you think you do.

I work in the industry. I understand it clearly.

[deleted][]

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
7.1.4  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.3    5 days ago
I work in the industry.  I understand it clearly.

Good for you. then you should have no problem establishing your bona fides.

Never said you specifically now did I.  Keep up.

Actually, you did, your comment, ''as you all want everybody to think,''  

Cheers

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.5  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Kavika @7.1.4    5 days ago
Actually, you did, your comment, ''as you all want everybody to think,''  

Actually I didn't.  Try reading it again.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
7.1.6  Split Personality  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.5    5 days ago
Actually I didn't.  Try reading it again.

OK.

If Biden was as instrumental in the negotiations as you all want everybody to think, then yes, it's on him.  Not hard to grasp.

Actually, you did.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
7.1.7  Krishna  replied to  Kavika @7.1.2    5 days ago
Keep flaying away since I never said that Biden was instrumental in this, that would be you trying to make a point about something that doesn't exist.

Good question!

Perhaps its merely a futile attempt to win a argument?

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.8  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Split Personality @7.1.6    2 days ago

Actually I didn't.

you all

That's plural.  Not anybody specific.  Now if you are done trying to play the victim.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8  Hal A. Lujah    5 days ago

The real issue here is clear if you step back and look at the whole picture.  Shipping profits have been exorbitant, but the ones reaping the profits aren’t sharing them with the workers making their profits possible.  However, these workers were arguably already very well compensated, but they see an avenue to enrich themselves to the tune of a 61% raise on a salary that is already inflated by holding the entire country hostage with mob style tactics.  The real issue is why are the profits so high to begin with?  This is a dangerous precedent for never ending salary negotiations in any sector that can leverage the country, and it’s driven purely by greed.  I guess the medical industry is now primed to hold the country hostage to over-inflate their already inflated salaries, since they have the exact same power and justifications.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8    5 days ago

Regarding profits, you best consult with the SS lines, as the vast majority are foreign-owned and the port operator who charge the docking fees. BTW labor is not the largest part of the operating cost to the SS Lins.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8.1.1  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Kavika @8.1    5 days ago

labor is not the largest part of the operating cost to the SS Lins

I don’t doubt that.  However, clearly something in the process is causing profits to soar at the expense of the downstream consumers.  Boosting high salaries an additional 62% will only further exacerbate that condition.  Unbridled capitalism in an environment that invites abuse.  How is it logical to pay dockworkers more than engineers, architects, accountants, etc. - who spent years of their lives and possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars to get the degree that entitles them to important occupations at less pay.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8.1.2  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8.1.1    5 days ago
However, clearly something in the proocess is causing profits to soar at the expense of the downstream consumers.

Of course, it is, starting with SS Line and the longshoreman at the origin end, they do not work for free, and bunker costs, eqpt purchase, and repair office personal costs go up every year.

How is it logical to pay dockworkers more than engineers, architects, accountants, etc. - who spent years of their lives and possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars to get the degree that entitles them to important occupations at less pay.

The same can be said about plumbers, electricians and a host of other occupations. You're assuming that Longis are grunt labor which of course is BS and very condescending. There are many with degrees that require vast experience and brains to do their job and those jobs are a hell of a lot more dangerous than any engineers, architects, accountants will encounter

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8.1.3  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Kavika @8.1.2    5 days ago

You're assuming that Longis are grunt labor which of course is BS.

What have I said to make you think that?  It’s isn’t controversial to say that they are already compensated very well.  A 62% increase in pay for a job that already pays very well is a slap in the face to everyone else who is not in a position to leverage their position to further enrich themselves.  Plumbers have no way to extort that kind of raise in compensation.  How can we entice the next generation to fill the important jobs mentioned if labor unions are all jockeying to make nonunion occupations far less lucrative? 

There are many with degrees that require vast experience and brains to do their job

And yet all of them are getting a massive pay increase by threatening consumers with self induced higher inflation.  Let’s call this what it is - extortion.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.4  JohnRussell  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8.1.3    5 days ago

The American economy is not remotely fair across the board , and this situation is just another example of it. 

In a fair world the owners would make less profit and thus not trigger demands by THEIR labor force, and money saved would be applied to lowering costs. But everyone is greedy and that is the way of the world. 

I had a relative that worked on the line at a water heater factory. I would occasionally see him and a few of his co-workers at a bar I used to frequent. They constantly talked about the bullshit they went through at work, including having to punch out to go to the bathroom.  I'm sure they all worked hard , and even though they were in a union they werent paid what they should have been, most likely because the nation was never really in danger of a hot water heater shortage. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8.1.5  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.4    5 days ago

Here’s my anecdotal story.  When I was working on my engineering degree, dirt poor and overwhelmed with difficult coursework, I had a lab partner who was well acknowledged as one of the smartest guys in the program.  He was 20+/- yrs older than the rest of us, and he worked full time on an automotive factory line.  It was drudgery for him and he wanted to change his station in life so he used his impressive intellect to work on getting an engineering degree.  Eventually he dropped out because the pay to stay on the union line fastening part A to part B was too good to compare with starting engineer pay and the burden of student loans.  The engineering world was denied a great addition because unions have leveraged drudge work to be more lucrative than jobs that can only be performed by those of higher intellect.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.6  JohnRussell  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8.1.5    5 days ago

People who work hard should be paid, whether it is with their backs or their brains.  Why are you dissing the working class ? 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8.1.7  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.6    5 days ago

Is it dissing the working class to suggest they should not be compensated at 1.5 - 2x the pay of educated professionals?  I think not.  Everything is relative, so consider the impacts of an environment filled with people paid handsomely to build stuff but nobody to design the plans for them to build from.  Anyone can build stuff, not everyone can design it.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.8  JohnRussell  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8.1.7    5 days ago

I have three great -nephews that are roughly the same age. Three brothers in their twenties. One of them just graduated from college with an engineering degree, and he got an entry level  job working at designing parts for earth moving equipment. His two brothers did not graduate from college but instead were encouraged to join a trade union , in this case to become building engineers, and now they are apprentices.  There is classwork connected with this but it is not a college degree. The older of the two made 100,000 dollars a year recently, with overtime. I dont really know what the younger one makes , but I'm fairly sure it is more than his brother the engineer. 

I dont know what the right or wrong is in this, although I think the building engineer position is likely more important. 

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
8.1.9  evilone  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8.1.7    5 days ago

Similar to doctors... a specialist makes way more than a GP, so now we have a shortage of GPs in healthcare. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.10  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.8    5 days ago
  • Provide property preventive maintenance, electrical repair, HVAC maintenance/troubleshooting, construction, plumbing, custom carpentry and renovations.
  • Provide technical expertise to plumbing, electrical, HVAC, and security systems, including computer-driven energy management systems.
  • Respond to tenant service calls relating to overall building operations, mechanical, electrical and plumbing problems and initiate corrective action.
  • Maintain A/C units, U.P.S.
  • Service A/C units, elevators.
  • Improve the efficiency of PLC processes.
  • Assess and coordinate repair and installation of commercial roofing systems.
 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8.1.11  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8.1.3    5 days ago
What have I said to make you think that? 

Much of your comment implies it.

How can we entice the next generation to fill the important jobs mentioned if labor unions are all jockeying to make nonunion occupations far less lucrative? 

You are aware that the engineers at Boing are unionized, right? and many other companies. The US for the past 50 years or more has done everything possible to destroy the unions and damn near succeeded in the private sector.

And yet all of them are getting a massive pay increase by threatening consumers with self induced higher inflation.  Let’s call this what it is - extortion.

Yes, they are but calling it extortion is nothing but hyperbole, when the SS Lines raise rates across the board are you calling foul, or when foreign longshoremen get a raise or the costs of constructing the ships increase do you go on about that? How about when the corporations post record breaking profits, any complaint?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
8.1.12  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.4    5 days ago
The American economy is not remotely fair across the board , and this situation is just another example of it. 

MLK Jr agreed and spent his last year fighting that. 58 years ago, King embarked on a campaign against poverty and de facto segregation in the North that was met with institutional and open violence.

“I have never seen, even in Mississippi and Alabama, mobs as hateful as I’ve seen here in Chicago.  Yes, it’s definitely a closed society. We’re going to make it an open society.”

King said Chicago would be the first front in a campaign for justice against the “involuntary enslavement” of blacks in Northern slums.

In July, King spoke to tens of thousands of supporters at Chicago’s Soldier Field and, urging a peaceful protest, vowed to “fill up the jails of Chicago, if necessary, in order to end slums.”

Demonstrators inspired by King advanced peacefully into white neighborhoods, where “swastikas bloomed in Chicago parks like misbegotten weeds,” King wrote later. “Our marchers were met by a hailstorm of bricks, bottles and firecrackers.”

Did MLK succeed in the racist North?

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8.1.13  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.10    5 days ago

I agree that a building engineer is required to have many skills.  Are they all banding together to threaten to shut down all buildings unless they get a massive pay raise?  That is the issue.  I’ve read that longshoremen currently can make up to 200k per year with overtime.  Ask your nephews how they feel about longshoremen who are already making twice what they are making now getting a 62% pay raise.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8.1.14  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Kavika @8.1.11    5 days ago

You are obviously passionate about this because you worked in the industry.  I have worked in the engineering industry for over 30 years.  Not only has there never been an opportunity for my colleagues to force higher pay, but I can’t imagine them doing so even if they had the means - for ethical reasons alone.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8.1.15  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8.1.14    5 days ago
You are obviously passionate about this because you worked in the industry.

Yes, I am, and also logical about it. I started out as a longie working the worst jobs from loading hides by hand to unloading banana boats and having to wear welder's gloves to keep the banana spiders from biting you. After a number of years as a longie took a chance and gave it up to enter management and was the VP of OPS for the Far East, Polynsia/Miconsia, and Australasia when I retired, so I certainly understand both ends of labor and management/finances.

but I can’t imagine them doing so even if they had the means - for ethical reasons alone.

Reality might tell very different story.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8.1.16  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Kavika @8.1.15    5 days ago

I don’t know where the logic is in inspiring qualified people to forego education and hop in line to unload bananas for a better paycheck.  It won’t end well for the country to disincentivize the hunger for desperately needed professionally educated people to design the cranes, ports, and transportation routes to move those bananas.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.17  JohnRussell  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8.1.13    5 days ago

I dont disagree with you about that. 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
8.1.18  Krishna  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8.1.1    5 days ago
 Unbridled capitalism in an environment that invites abuse.

But since the advent of labour unions-- the abuse of workers by corporations has actually decreased!

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8.1.19  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8.1.16    5 days ago
I don’t know where the logic is in inspiring qualified people to forego education and hop in line to unload bananas for a better paycheck.

Who is inspiring people to forgo education? It is their choice to go or not to go to college.

As for desperately needed professionally educated people to design the cranes, ports, and transportation outs to move bananas.

Seems you forgot to address the second part of my comment, so be it.

Can you tell me the last time a crane was designed and or built in the US? try decades ago. How about a ship, same answer decades ago, and for designing ports the US is lagging behind many other countries in that aspect of the trade.  Many of the ports in the Far East and Europe far outclass ours.

And as for the engineers and their ethics ck out what the Boeing engineers are doing during the strike by machinists....Reality is feeding your family and keeping a roof over their heads.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8.1.20  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Kavika @8.1.19    5 days ago

Who is inspiring people to forgo education? It is their choice to go or not to go to college.

Can you tell me the last time a crane was designed and or built in the US? try decades ago. How about a ship, same answer decades ago, and for designing ports the US is lagging behind many other countries in that aspect of the trade.  Many of the ports in the Far East and Europe far outclass ours.

You’re making my point.  If we want to give those sectors a jolt then we need to have the skills to do it here, and those skills start with a college degree.  The shipping and adjacent industries employ vast numbers, assuming the majority without a college degree requirement.  If you get employment there then there’s negative incentive to ever go to college because it will be a pay cut.  The end result is we end up with less STEM educated adults while China just keeps churning them out.

And as for the engineers and their ethics ck out what the Boeing engineers are doing during the strike by machinists....Reality is feeding your family and keeping a roof over their heads.

I don’t know why you insist on using Boeing as an example.  They are hardly representative of the average architectural engineering company.  While I know some engineers that lack ethics, my experience as a whole indicates that the ethics lean towards the positive.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8.1.21  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Krishna @8.1.18    5 days ago

But since the advent of labour unions-- the abuse of workers by corporations has actually decreased!

And the abuse is swinging to the other side in some instances.  The funds to cover this 62% pay raise will be borne by the industry and reflexively passed on to consumers through higher prices.  We are ultimately all abused and dumbed down when we disincentivize education by making a high school diploma the standard for a $150k/yr job.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8.1.22  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8.1.20    4 days ago
You’re making my point.  If we want to give those sectors a jolt then we need to have the skills to do it here, and those skills start with a college degree.  The shipping and adjacent industries employ vast numbers, assuming the majority without a college degree requirement.  If you get employment there then there’s negative incentive to ever go to college because it will be a pay cut.  The end result is we end up with less STEM educated adults while China just keeps churning them out.

No, not making your point at all, do have any idea why w don't build ships and cranes any longer? It is not about not having the talent, it's that it takes too long to get it approved, too long to build them and too expensive.

I don’t know why you insist on using Boeing as an example.  They are hardly representative of the average anrchitectural engineering company.  While I know some engineers that lack ethics, my experience as a whole indicates that the ethics lean towards the positive.

It's simple, and you should understand it, it was you who brought up engineers and their ethics, you can't now try and tell me that the is a difference between the two. Boeing has 17,000 engineers, I'm sure that the majority have ethics, the same with most professions. But they have formed a union, which seems to void your comment re engineers. During the current strike at Boeing, they decided in their own best interest. Which is a decision based on reality and self-interest.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8.1.23  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Kavika @8.1.11    4 days ago

How about when the corporations post record breaking profits, any complaint?

Yes, in fact it is the point in my first comment of this thread.  I’ll repeat:

The real issue is why are the profits so high to begin with?  This is a dangerous precedent for never ending salary negotiations in any sector that can leverage the country, and it’s driven purely by greed.  I guess the medical industry is now primed to hold the country hostage to over-inflate their already inflated salaries, since they have the exact same power and justifications.

It’s all relative, but it doesn’t change the fact that this sector just used mob style tactics to get a 62% pay raise that ultimately consumers will end up paying for.  How many people have spend years of their life and hundreds of thousands of dollars on completing college requirements to get a job that pays less - simply because that job doesn’t come with the advantage of being able to jack up inflation with extortion tactics.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8.1.24  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8.1.23    4 days ago
The real issue is why are the profits so high to begin with?  This is a dangerous precedent for never ending salary negotiations in any sector that can leverage the country, and it’s driven purely by greed.  I guess the medical industry is now primed to hold the country hostage to over-inflate their already inflated salaries, since they have the exact same power and justifications.

Didn't you hear during the pandemic the number of nurse's unions that did or threatened to strike if their demands were not met? Also teacher's unions as well so it seems that they are all greedy and affiliated with the mob. 

All jobs come with the ability to, according to you mob style tactics.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8.1.25  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Kavika @8.1.24    4 days ago

All jobs come with the ability to, according to you mob style tactics.

Blatantly false.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8.1.26  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8.1.25    4 days ago
Blatantly false.

Actually, it isn't, Hal. There is no law stopping any group from forming a union or co op to strengthen their negotiating position.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8.1.27  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Kavika @8.1.26    4 days ago

I worked for an engineering firm whose principal openly let everyone know that if anyone made an attempt to start a union, he’d close the company down.  No law against that either, and I would bet that this is an unspoken philosophy amongst the majority of small to mid-sized engineering firms.  This person paid the staff fair wages and expected an honest days work for an honest day’s pay.  Apparently that isn’t good enough for “longies”.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8.1.28  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8.1.27    4 days ago

Good for your owner and no there is nothing wrong with closing your company if you’re so inclined. 

your quite vocal on the wages that longies make are you as concerned with Wall Street or CEO’s and their million dollar golden parachutes even when they bankrupt a corporation? Your comment re not being good enough for longies is a bit condescending but understandable when one considers us uneducated grunt labor and should probably work for min wage. Sorry to disappoint you but we have learned to leverage our numbers and power to better ourselves. We do not see that as a crime or a moral or ethical problem. But we are not engineers with their moral compass of a saint. We want a good life and provide for our families. If that offends, so be it.

off to meet with some of my uneducated longie friends perhaps we can peel some banana’s for entertainment.

cheers

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8.1.29  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Kavika @8.1.28    3 days ago

one considers us uneducated grunt labor and should probably work for min wage.

88k base pay is far from minimum wage.  Now you’re being hyperbolic.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8.1.30  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8.1.29    3 days ago

Not really hyperbolic, from what I gathered from your comments it seems that min wage was what we without education were entitled thus my comment, Hal.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8.1.31  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Kavika @8.1.30    3 days ago

Interesting since I didn’t imply that anywhere.  88k is good money, but apparently not good enough for those who feel entitled to a 62% raise through extortive tactics.  Go ahead and keep putting false words in my mouth though - it only strengthens my argument.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8.1.32  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8.1.31    3 days ago

Didn’t put any words in your mouth, just used your words. “We feel entitled to a 62 per cent increase and through extortive tactics no less” that is quite the accusation since everything we did was legal was it not? If you have any information or facts showing that anything we did was illegal please produce it now. 
What it sounds like is sour grapes on your end. Imagine uneducated grunts making more money than collage educated engineers, unimaginable but it’s happening. Time to get over it, Hal. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8.1.33  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Kavika @8.1.32    2 days ago

The act of extorting; the act or practice of wresting anything from a person by force, by threats, or by any undue exercise of power; undue exaction; overcharge.

That is the dictionary definition of extortion.  If doesn’t have to be illegal, it can be just unethical and immoral like this case.  You may like to think it’s sour grapes on my part, but on your part it’s a simple case of “I got mine Jack, keep your hands off my stack”.  I never pictured you being in that club.  Guess I was wrong.  It’s no wonder the country continues to be dumbed down when it wants to pay people more to be that way than educated.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
9  Mark in Wyoming     5 days ago

The union got a double digit increase over the 50% pay increase over 6 yrs , to 62 % over 6 yrs  a gain of 12% over what was offered .

 What i noticed is it this only covers up to Jan 15th, 2025 , 3 months , well past the election , and just before whom ever wins the election . effectively taking this issue off the table as to affecting the elections outcome , which i think ,IMHO , is still way closer than some would like , despite what some party cheer leaders would like believed .

 of course nothing else has been said about other demands and concessions , which will likely be discussed over the next 3 months, but will still be a specter  for any incoming admin . .

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
9.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @9    5 days ago

You got it Mark.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @9.1    5 days ago

How horrible that Biden/Harris helped end a strike that was predicted to cripple the US economy. The bastards !!!

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
9.1.3  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.1    5 days ago

i dont think this is the last we have heard of this strike , it has just been kicked down the road by 3 months is all. so nothing was ended .

there is still plenty that needs to be talked about  by both sides .

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.1.4  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.1    2 days ago

I thank them for ending this strike which could have been disastrous.  

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
9.2  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Mark in Wyoming @9    5 days ago

The issue will be as it has always been number one in the negotiations, AUTOMATION.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
9.2.1  JBB  replied to  Kavika @9.2    5 days ago

I expect job security and higher wages for existing members will be given but without stopping inevitable automation to come...

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Masters Guide
9.2.2  Right Down the Center  replied to  JBB @9.2.1    5 days ago

The more a company has to pay labor the more the impetus for a company to move to automation.  I don't know all the details but with a 66 percent increase over 6 years it would seem the union felt wages was more important than job security, which may be why management caved in.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
9.3  Split Personality  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @9    5 days ago

The labor side is settled, the remaining issues are the health care and what can be automated and how slowly.

They are still expecting to complete the pact by 01/25/24

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
9.3.1  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Split Personality @9.3    5 days ago

it still appears to me like both sides bought 3 months , and the removal of the optics it COULD effect the election .

 question i wonder is how much automation can be put in place in 3 months ?

we all know this pay raise isnt going to come out of profits , it will be written into the cost of doing business , and that cost always falls on the consuming public in the end  .

 i think we just have to sit back and watch what develops .

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
9.3.2  Split Personality  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @9.3.1    4 days ago

It is more likely that future automation will be tied directly to attrition.

The proffitt issue is interesting from SS' point of view.  If the supply chain were healthy and fluid they could cut costs, pay the higher labor and never think twice.

The problem is when ships have to sit at a port or off shore anchorage waiting for months at a time.

Currently that has to be accounted for and, as they work their way out what started in 2020, they are showing huge proffitts.

They will always be profitable, it's just a matter of time.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
9.3.3  Snuffy  replied to  Split Personality @9.3.2    4 days ago

Fox News (yes, I know. The evil enterprise of Fox) has an interesting article with Kevin O'Leary about the differences between the East Coast and West Coast ports. From what I read, West Coast ports have a higher level of automation and matches up better with more modern ports overseas. East Coast ports may have to automate just to keep up. And as stated in the article, there have been studies that have shown that wages are negatively impacted by adding automation.

"The trouble with East Coast ports is they're very old, they're very inefficient," O’Leary Ventures Chairman and "Shark Tank" star Kevin O’Leary said Friday   on "Varney & Co."

"And when you start to compare them against other international ports like Singapore and the other Asian ports," he continued, "we're just not holding much up against them. And that’s very bad for productivity."

"There's been lots of studies on automation in ports domestically and internationally," O’Leary said. "We just got to let automation go where it goes because there is zero evidence on the East and West Coast that if you automate and make it more efficient, more productive, then it hurts wages at all."

Kevin O'Leary addresses 'the trouble' with US ports and union automation concerns | Fox Business

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
9.3.4  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Snuffy @9.3.3    4 days ago
Fox News (yes, I know. The evil enterprise of Fox) has an interesting article with Kevin O'Leary about the differences between the East Coast and West Coast ports. From what I read, West Coast ports have a higher level of automation and matches up better with more modern ports overseas. East Coast ports may have to automate just to keep up. And as stated in the article, there have been studies that have shown that wages are negatively impacted by adding automation.

That is absolutely correct. Having worked at the W/C ports for over 40 years and managed ports all over the world, I can say that the East Coast ports are lagging.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
9.4  Krishna  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @9    5 days ago
as to affecting the elections outcome

From before the strike 'till the time it was settled-- I didn't change my mind about who I was voting for.

Did you? jrSmiley_26_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
9.4.1  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Krishna @9.4    5 days ago

nope , still not voting for either of the quackenbushes running for president .

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
10  JBB    5 days ago

original

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
11  Gsquared    5 days ago

This is good news.

The trumpists are upset that there is not going to be economic chaos caused by a prolonged strike.  Further proof that the best interests of the American people is the last thing they care about. 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
11.1  Krishna  replied to  Gsquared @11    5 days ago
The trumpists are upset that there is not going to be economic chaos caused by a prolonged strike.  Further proof that the best interests of the American people is the last thing they care about. 

Most of the ones I know are anti-union.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
11.1.1  Gsquared  replied to  Krishna @11.1    4 days ago

The republican party has traditionally been anti-union.  Nothing new there.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
12  charger 383    3 days ago

Most corporations deserve a labor Union to protect and advance the worker's positions 

 
 

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