Putin Makes Stunning Demand in Ukraine Call as Trump Stays Quiet
Category: News & Politics
Via: john-russell • 2 weeks ago • 42 commentsBy: Hafiz Rashid (The New Republic)
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Donald Trump apparently left one big point out of the readout of his call with Russian President Vladimir Putin.
Russian President Vladimir Putin has demanded that the United States and its allies end intelligence and military assistance to Ukraine in order for hostilities to end.
Putin reportedly made this point during his phone call with President Trump on Tuesday, and the detail was conveniently not mentioned in the White House's readout of the call. The White House's account said that Russia agreed to an energy and infrastructure ceasefire as a first step toward a "maritime ceasefire in the Black Sea, full ceasefire and permanent peace," with negotiations beginning "immediately in the Middle East." Trump is already celebrating, calling it a "very good and productive" call.
But Russia's demand is not likely to go over well with Ukraine or its allies. Russia isn't likely to end intelligence activities against Ukraine even in a permanent ceasefire, for one. Ukraine's supporters in Congress too will see ending military and intelligence support as abandoning the country. Even if Ukraine isn't fighting Russia, it would still presumably maintain a military.
Perhaps that is one of Russia's goals: to weaken Ukraine's defense capabilities and claim that it will take responsibility for defending the country. To Ukrainians, that might bring back painful memories of Russian hegemony under the Soviet Union and would be a nonstarter. After all, Russia invaded Ukraine allegedly due to fears of the country seeking NATO membership, an independent relationship with Russia, and closer ties to the West.
Regardless of why Russia would want military and intelligence assistance to Ukraine to end, it's telling that the White House didn't mention this demand. Trump and Vice President JD Vance have made no secret about their inclinations toward Russia and antipathy to continued support of Ukraine. Perhaps they thought it would be hashed out in negotiations, or that Russia wouldn't mention it. Either way, it doesn't speak well of Russia's intentions for a postwar Ukraine, and no one outside of the White House or Kremlin is going to like it.
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Putin laid down the law to the U.S. president yesterday. Nothing but Ukrainian submission will suffice.
For Trumps part , he thinks the "24 hours" in which he will end the war hasnt started yet.
“…he thinks the "24 hours" in which he will end the war hasnt started yet.”
Another day, another acquiescence, another shameful exhibition of incompetence. Impotent does not begin to describe this ongoing debacle.
didnt Trump say he was the Omnimpotent one...?
Cease fire to allow Russia to rebuild while Ukraine is left unchanged and in the dark. The art of the deal.
Why do progressives believe Ukraine won't rebuild and fortify its country during a cease fire?
Is that what progressives believe?
My expectation is that Putin is demanding that the USA and EU not supply intelligence and not provide supplies to rearm Ukraine during the cease fire.
In comparison:
Ukraine
Russia
Russia has a tiny economy. Even if the US doesn't borrow any more billions to send to Ukraine, do you believe the entire EU can't even match the pitiable amount the tiny Russian economy can generate?
That's the theme of their talking points and I don't think they are lying? Are you?
s that Putin is demanding that the USA and EU not supply intelligence and not provide supplies to rearm Ukraine during the cease fire.
I'm sure he's demanding all sorts of things. Ukraine doesn't have to agree to them. That's what a negotiation is.
I do not think that is the theme. I think the theme is one of distrust in Putin and incompetence on the part of Trump being able to secure a fair cease fire. Trump has repeatedly demonstrated that he will kowtow to Putin (even to the point of providing perfect propaganda for Putin to broadcast on Russian media) and engage Zelensky in a counterproductive, gratuitous adversarial fashion.
A stupid comment that intentionally misses the point. The point focuses on the terms; not the obvious fact that an agreement might not be reached.
Trump has failed. He said Putin would listen to him, and that is clearly barely happening, if at all.
Trump wanted a complete 30 day cease fire (to start) and Putin said no. Zelensky, by the way, said yes.
Apparently you still think that with enough intelligence and military aid from the US, Ukraine will win this war of attrition?
Russia with a GDP of $1.7T ranked the 11th largest economy in the world, while Ukraine ranked 59th with $130.8B
Yes, Russia has an economy about the size of Florida. Now do the EU and address the actual point.
There is little doubt that the USA combined with the EU can overpower Russia. The question is how to do that without escalating this war. The other question is one of will; in particular the will of the USA given Trump as PotUS.
Right until Russia decides they are losing and they are going to take everyone with them with a few nukes.
That has been a question that has been asked and not answered for over three years. Putin has always dictated how far adversaries could go before he considered it escalating. I don't see that changing
The question of will for everyone, not the US in particular. There has been no will for three years and now it is convenient to blame it on Trump. If no one has shown the will why is it up to Trump to nudge them over a line they clearly don't want to cross? What could he actually do to give everyone the backbone to escalate without escalating, that is clearly what many blaming him seem to think he could do.
As I noted: "The question is how to do that without escalating this war."
New administration. New opportunities. Let's see the brilliant negotiator do something of value.
Wrong. The EU has demonstrated its will while the US (because of Trump) has been backing away and flat out weakening the position of Ukraine. The will of the USA in particular is a critical factor for creating a strong position for negotiating peace.
As I noted Putin has always dictated how far adversaries could go before he considered it escalating. As soon as he says "If you do that I will consider it escalating" the EU and US back down. I don't see that changing.
What new opportunities? Ukraine is worse off now than it was when the war started. I am pretty sure Donald left his magic wand at Hogwarts.
Good for the EU. What exactly have they done? Is it enough to win the war? Zelensky has said several times what he would need to win, are they giving him what he said is needed to win or are they giving him just enough to prolong the war for another 6 months or year? Creating a strong position for negotiation for Ukraine only comes when Putin believes he may lose. He is a nut case that has no problem throwing lives at this problem and is just crazy enough to use nukes. Obviously that is what is keeping everyone from giving Zelensky what he needs. Has Putin changed? Do you think he is going to be OK with us arming Ukraine to the point he believes he could lose?
Negotiation 101 will not solve this problem.
Then your strategy, if PotUS, would basically surrender to whatever Putin demands. Unfortunately, the actual PotUS seems to have the same notion.
The freedom to not hold true to anything Biden negotiated. The negotiation freedom to declare 'that was the other guy'.
That would be the idea. Either surrender to Putin or strengthen Ukraine's position to the point where Putin is willing to negotiate. You (and apparently Trump) would surrender.
No it will not. But I have not suggested negotiation 101; having noted numerous times that this is a complex negotiation. Typically it is part of my criticism of the buffoon occupying the presidency who strengthened Putin's position by providing propaganda for him ... the PotUS declaring that Ukraine started the war, that Zelensky is a dictator with a 4% approval rating, and the sickening fiasco in the Oval Office where Trump declared that Ukraine has effectively lost the war. And then denies intelligence and aid to our ally.
That is not even negotiation 101 ... it is brain-dead-stupid. What kind of an idiot weakens the position of the victim and ally and strengthens that of the aggressor?
Has the EU done anything to strengthen Ukraine to the point Putin is willing to negotiate and be reasonable?
Please show me where I said Ukraine should give up. Oh that's right. I didnt
You really need to get caught up. Start here:
Getting to the point where Putin is willing to negotiate depends heavily on the USA. If we wimp out, then they have already stated they will do it on their own.
And if they have to do it without us, I have suggested several times that this will likely just extend the war. More bloodshed and pointless loss of treasure and time.
You either are in favor of strengthening Ukraine's position to encourage real negotiation or not. That is what I proposed and you have tried to argue against it. Make up your mind.
Well hell, maybe Trump can suggest that Elon buy it then. /s
Muskraine - Kind of a nice ring to it....
So three articles of what they might do. In other words they have done nothing. Putin must be shaking in his boots
Why? You keep saying how weak Russia is. You think the EU is not strong enough to do it by themselves if they want to, after all Ukraine is in their back yard? But I do agree, if all they are going to do is have meetings about what they might do they will only just extend the war.
My mind is made up. I am clearly stating that no one is willing to do what needs to be done, not that I don't think it should be done. See the difference? I am trying to add a bit of reality into the situation, something you seem to be unwilling to do.
If the EU is willing to do what needs to be done (with or without the US) that is great. I don't see that happening no matter how many meetings they have.
If not I would suggest getting the best deal for Ukraine as possible and as soon as Putin agrees to it let Ukraine into NATO and give Putin the finger. Of course no one would be willing to do that since Putin has everyone running scared.
That is alot of words to say nothing. He must be a politician.
All you have to do is double Putins losses. LOL, I can't believe no one has thought of that.
Three articles that should have given you some understanding of the work currently underway to shore up Ukraine. Instead, it looks like confirmation bias is in play.
You just made that up. A flat out lie. In fact, I have been stating that there is a need to strengthen Ukraine and the USA is needed. How does your mind translate that into an argument that Russia is weak?
While ignoring clear evidence that the EU is indeed willing to do what needs to be done.
No, it would just extend the bloodshed. What would be great is for the USA to have a PotUS who stands as the leader of the free world and leads the effort to stop Russia from invading other nations.
Your reply is a 'nuh-uh'.
Lay out your solution for resolving the Ukraine war. Put some specifics behind this:
What would be your notion of the 'best deal for Ukraine'? How does immediately violating the deal (because Putin will not agree to any deal with Ukraine being part of NATO) and allowing Ukraine into NATO keep the peace?
I checked Zillow, they're not listed as for sale. Neither is Greenland, Panama, or Canada.
So, in your mind then, Ukraine can't/won't do the same under those circumstances?
No, that is NOT my point. I suspect that this would be a demand of Putin’s.
I never thought I would say this but I miss the days of Ronald Reagan
Those were the days, my friend
We thought they'd never end
We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we choose
We'd fight and never lose
Those were the days, oh yes, those were the days
Don't cry when Trump ends up being another Herbert Hoover!
Don't worry, I wont.
Putin speaks, many Democrats parrot it as the gospel. A tale as old as time.
The lady doth protest too much, methinks. Talk about projection.
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Curious as to how you know he made this demand?
Lefties continuing to believe in miracles, fairy tales, and happy endings for Ukraine.
Another exaggeration to the point of absurdity. I have yet to read anyone suggesting a happy ending. On the other hand, I have read comments like yours which suggest the USA should just throw Ukraine under the bus and surrender to Putin’s demands. With Trump, that seems to be where he is leaning.
Did everyone sleep through the Cold War? Of course Putin is going to demand Ukraine cease resupply and gathering intelligence. That's the standard playbook. Putin made this demand for the specific purpose of provoking a Ukrainian objection.
Zelensky's objection gives Russia permission to beef up defenses along the line of contact, position supplies for defense of captured territory, and position troops and materiel for the next offensive push. Zelensky's demand to continue aid and intelligence gathering grants Putin permission to do the same.
Europe can stockpile as much materiel as possible in Poland without violating Putin's demand. Zelensky can agree to pause resupply without actually stopping the buildup of stockpiles to be delivered. Zelensky agreeing to stop receiving intelligence doesn't really stop the collection of intelligence. So, don't be surprised if Zelensky entertains Putin's demands. If Europe can be trusted to continue building stockpiles then agreeing to Putin's demand actually benefits Ukraine more than Russia.
And now there's a line a few million long on their knees behind Trump waiting to kiss Putin's shoes. It's truly been a disgusting display of sniveling weakness and utter gutless cowardice by the President and every single one of those who continue to support this disaster-in-chief.