Why Are Trucks So Big?
CAFE is very, very stupid!
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
There is no CAFE in France.
The average price of gasoline in France is $ 7.51 / gallon.
Light-duty vehicles in France get 43 MPG on average.
D'ya think there's a connection between these two? Maybe?
France has somewhere between one third and one half the US rate of pedestrian deaths per mile driven.
D'ya think there's a connection between these two? Maybe?
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America is the land of market driven policy... except...
Toyota seems to take advantage of the CAFE exemptions, too.
Of course.
This is not a corporate problem. It's a regulatory problem. I spent many years in management consultancy, where I learned that a company will always make the best of any rule applied to it. CAFE is a stupid rule that encourages manufacturers to make ever-bigger trucks. Since bigger trucks have bigger profit margins, it's a win-win for them.
Is the CAFE standard stupid or is the exemption stupid? You seem to be sending mixed signals.
BTW, one of the motivations for owning one these big pickup trumps is the number of 80,000 lb and 100,000 lb freight trucks on the highways.
Semi-trucks are disproportionate contributors to traffic fatalities. Underride accidents (where a vehicle goes under the trailer) typically results in serious injuries or death. Those big pickup trucks are perceived as a safer vehicle in mixed traffic.
CAFE is stupid. The truck carve-out is even stupider.
It seems more likely that CAFE standards are beneficial for the country that is the largest oil producer in the world. CAFE standards are not needed for countries dependent upon oil imports.
Why? Because Americans have gotten HUGE... Midwesterners are big as Samoans nowadays.
Ridiculous video, comparing a small toyota truck to a full size 3/4 ton truck is like comparing apples to oranges.
Why?
If you really have to ask that question, you should probably refrain from developing an opinion on the subject until you are more knowledgeable.
They are different types of truck from the factory. I wouldn’t compare that Toyota to an El Camino, either. The video NermL posted was a more apples to apples comparison.
I don't think the purpose was to compare the trucks. It was to present two different options.
Ok, I have to critique the video a little. While cars are bigger, generally, these days, we’re comparing apples and oranges with these trucks. There have long been mid size/compact trucks and full size trucks. The Toyota was the former and the Chevy is the latter. In 1985, you could buy a Chevy truck that was 246 inches long - just as long as the modern Chevy. You could also buy smaller domestic trucks.
Cars, by the way, are bigger for a few reasons beyond just the regulatory issues. We have all sorts of safety features we didn’t have 40 years ago, like crumple zones, multiple air bags, stronger frames and bumpers, etc. Modern vehicles are also more comfortable, with plusher seats, extra soundproofing, and so on. A lot of people also prefer to sit up higher than they do in a sedan. All of this makes all cars and trucks not only bigger, but heavier.
Monster trucks consume more and kill more.
The bed of the big truck here is 5 inches longer. Does that justify?
I'd say let the customer decide. Sounds like you favor governmental regulations and rules as to size, shape, and horsepower.
A monster truck is generally defined as one that has been modified to have higher suspension and taller tires than stock. The truck in the video posted here is stock.
Yes. A stock truck is a monster.
That’s ridiculous.
You probably think Mr Giggles RAM 250 is a monster truck. It hauls the camper, it hauls wood, it hauls mulch, dirt, rocks and any other thing he thinks he needs for the yard. This new truck of his is only about a year old and the bed isn't looking all shiny and new anymore.
You're not a rural person, Bob. Rural people need trucks for stuff. If people have the money to buy a truck what business is it of yours? Personally, I wonder at people who buy Smart cars. I would get claustrophobic in one of those. Besides, I don't think they would fare too well in an accident with a truck
What are you describing as a "monster truck"?
Are you considering other things like clearance or towing capacity?
Good point.
As I have said SEVERAL times in this thread, i completely understand that there is a place for utility vehicles. NO PROBLEM.
Mark went ballistic a year ago when I said that anyone from Wyoming could not be a typical American. That's not an insult - not at all. It's recognition of statistical reality.
"Rural". About 20% of America. (Very interestingly, about half of all Americans describe themselves as "rural"...) A farm is a small business that may need a tractor, a pickup, whatever. Sure. No problem.
The other 80% is suburban or urban. That's not an insult to anyone - it's simple fact. Once again, if someone wants to drive a stupidly expensive vehicle (three-pointed star, I'm lookin' at you) for its supposed "prestige", that fine! Their money, they waste it however they wish.
But I don't like paying for someone else's excess. I don't like useless pedestrian deaths.
Here in Yuma - and also wherever you are, I will bet heavily - most working pickups are smaller than the chrome-wheeled monsters that little old white-haired retirees drive to Fry's for groceries.
It's dumb!
You're not making the payments, you're not paying for the insurance, you're not paying for its upkeep, and you're not paying for the gas. So how do you figure you're subsidizing someone's excess?
Please fucking READ before Commenting
My C300 Benz was first out of the car wash today, went to the last lane while they vacuumed, did the windows etc.
A few minutes later a newish Tundra at least 30 inches longer, was pulled into the next lane and my car disappeared from my view.
A few more minutes and a Dodge Ram 3500 pulled into the closest lane obscuring the Tundra completely
A 4 door behemoth with an 8 foot bed and duel rear wheels exactly as they were 30 years ago.
I live in a city where half of everything on the road is this sort of... whatever. Often jacked. Chrome wheels. The beds are often pristine. The drivers are often octogenarians... of either sex.
There are smaller trucks, kinda like the old Tacoma. These are different. Steel wheels. Load beds full of tools or whatever. Never jacked. Often with a logo on the doors: "Joe's Plumbing" or whatever. Small businesses need the best performance/price ratio...
Trucks are partly a status symbol.
I'm in Texas, every thing is larger in Texas including the wanna be farmers and ranchers who work for Boeing, TEXDOT
or Tesla. Many more drugstore cowboys than drugstores, lol.
Morning split...mmmhhhh..
Texas would hardly rate a mention here State wise..
Western Australia is huge eats Texas for breakfast...
If you are gunna have States get some decent sized ones, not 50 tiddlers..😁
Sure, but that can be true of any car. No one needs a Corvette.
Trucks are
partlyalmost entirely a status symbol.Fixed.
A Corvette is a performance car. A very good one. In that perspective, it's worth its price.
An oversized pickup is good at nothing except impressing the overly impressionable. It is not worth its price in any rational way.
I sense an anti-truck bias coming from you. And to me, that’s not rational. You’re going to allow for a race car on the streets, but not a truck. Because it’s big?
I looked on the omniscient internet and couldn't find a single picture of anyone putting their boat
or anyone else's boat into the water with a Corvette but there a seemingly infinite number of pictures of pick up trucks like this.
For the record Dodge says the official towing capacity of a RAM 3500 is 19,000 pounds.
The Corvette is rated at 500 pounds.
reminds me of another member that use to come around with that kind of bias , named (deleted, SP )
I'm not anti-truck. Here in Yuma, as in any small city, there are lots of small businesses, with lots of light vehicles. They need them. No problem. But they don't have oversized monstrosities like the white truck in the video. They have smaller, cheaper, more efficient trucks like the red one.
Gargantuan cars - Hummers, for example - are almost as bad.
It's a closed system of government subsidies to Big Oil, with John Doe as oblivious intermediary.
If you put a boat in the water every day, then a truck might be needed. I doubt that applies to many people.
U-Haul exists because lots of people occasionally need something for a special task.
Look... I believe people should be allowed to do whatever they please, as long as there's no harm to anyone else. But everyone pays the taxes that subsidize the fuel these trucks over-consume. That's not fair. They kill pedestrians. There are serious problems with oversized vehicles,
I hear he was a smart guy.
i heard he was a rereg .
and i had my suspicions as well.
Could be...
doesnt matter anyway , same lack of influence and zero power to force anyone to conform .
True. In America anyone has the right to do anything. From loving their neighbors to mass murder.
Freedom!
[deleted][✘]
So, if I don’t own a small business, I shouldn’t have a pickup truck?? Come on! You can’t be serious about this.
What part of this Comment - just above at 7.1.11 - do you not understand?
Of course they do.
What part of “But” in your comment don’t you understand? You say people should be allowed to do whatever they please, but you clearly don’t mean it. According to you, trucks are killing people, and wasting your tax dollars, and destroying the environment, and none of it is fair. And none of it is justified unless you need it for business, and even then, the truck should be as small as possible. That’s your stated position.
“reminds me of another member that use to come around with that kind of bias , named ( deleted SP )
I remember that clown.
Everything kills pedestrians, SUVs are just as bad as flat faced pickup trucks. Bee's kill pedestrians.
A plane fell out of the air near Philadelphia's North East airfield and killed a pedestrian.
40% of pedestrian deaths involving any motor vehicle were intoxicated as opposed to only 18% of the drivers were intoxicated or had used alcohol.
Children, older adults, and those of lower socioeconomic status are most affected.
Poverty is rampant. A general lack of education is rampant.
300 to 400 million people have asthma world wide and 250,000 will die prematurely every year.
But let's worry about pickup trucks.....
A Pedestrian is 45% more likely to be killed or injured if involved with a large SUV or tall profile pick up
but not in California or Texas, the two states with the most pickup trucks registered .
WTF is wrong with NM?
I have several trucks, none new and 2 are drivable parts trucks for the better similar one. Most have antique tags. I bought my Dodge Little Red Express Truck as my College graduation present to me. (only graduation present I got) , It slipped in the snow and a friend sold me a Dodge PowerWagon with a snowplow. I wore that out and just restored it .Heavy-duty truck that looks good now And I fixed it because I like it and had it for 40 years.
I use my Dakota as daily driver except the dogs fit better in the Jeep Cherokee. Now I wish I had gotten a 4 door Dakota.
And then I have a really big truck, an Army Duce and Half, The school I worked at sold their camp and didn't need it and I got it cheap.
Why so many trucks? Cause I can and something for the old man to play with like he was a young buck again. The Dakota is the most practical. I don't think I will get a new truck.
Lots of people have vehicles because they like them and are fun not to be practical.
Lots of people have cars and trucks that are more than they actually need. Me Too
How much fuel - gas and diesel - do you consume per month? You're paying less than half what you'd pay if that fuel weren't subsidized. Everyone's taxes pay those subsidies.
Say thank you.
It depends on what I am doing and where I go. Fuel use is spread over several vehicles and the tractor and the Charger (when new paint job is finished). Lower fuel price is a good part of being an American
Do you agree with the idea that recipients of government subsidies are "Welfare Queens"?
Lower fuel prices are what most Citizens want. Keeping energy costs down is a good thing. Government subsidizes many things, Some are worthwhile, some questionable .
I know some Welfare Bums
"most Citizens" aren't aware that they're paying for your fuel.
don't tell them
Ummm..... Yeah, actually... They should know that they're subsidizing your life-style.
Yeah, that’s how taxes work. We’re all paying for things we don’t use. And we’re all using things someone else helped pay for. Insurance works the same way.
As well as yours if you are sitting at a computer. Plastic doesn't make itself. Nor do a lot of things made from a petroleum base.
Personally, I'm OK with necessary taxes - everything from defense to healthcare. But I don't like blatantly unfair taxes.
Unfortunately, there is no objective measure to determine what makes a tax necessary or fair. It’s subjective and based on your personal priorities.
Nothing is perfect, but "does it profit either the neediest or everyone, or does it profit a particular segment for no good reason?" is a decent first try.
Do you drive or ride in a care to go somewhere?
If you do, according to you, somebody is paying for your lifestyle.
So chalk it up to personal preference , others opinions dont matter , nor should they for something that is personal.
My brother got a new Ram truck every 6 or 7 years for at least 20 years. Then the time came when his wife needed a step stool to climb up into the thing and she made him get rid of them.
Better late than never...
They make powered side steps and lifts now.
IMO, the proliferation of ‘’big trucks’’ is simply due to cheap fuel in the US. If we were paying $7/$8 per gallon you wound not be seeing them in huge numbers on the US roads.
Exactly.
The whole situation is just a means of funneling our tax dollars into the pockets of Big Oil. Government subsidies, from exploration all the way through to well retirement, support Big Oil directly. But that's not enough!
Subsidies at the pump - something like $ 10 per gallon - encourage gogos to waste fuel. Thus putting lots more money into Big Oil's pockets.
America the free!
It all boils down to personal choice and convenience. A majority of Americans favor lower cost fuels. That's why fossil fuels will be very slow to phase out as the growth of EV's falters. I don't care what "Big Oil" does as long as gasoline comes out of pump when I fill up. And arrogant condescending climate scolds can go pound sand
Do you care that your tax money goes to subsidize big oil?
no!
I'll make it simple: if fuel (gas or diesel) at the pump wasn't subsidized, it would cost somewhere between ten and fifteen dollars. The difference between that and what you actually pay is covered by government subsidies... which of course are paid by everyone in the form of taxes.
(Yes, that means that fuel in Europe is also subsidized, but much less so.)
So anyone who consumes less fuel than the average is getting less government subsidies than anyone who consumes more than the average. People who burn a lot of fuel are welfare queens.
OF COURSE we would all like lower fuel prices! I would also like a unicorn and a dragon. They do not exist. NONE of them.
Do you favor government subsidies for electric vehicles? Do you favor government subsidies for over-consuming, pointlessly gargantuan pickups?
Do you care that your tax money goes to subsidize education?
Do you care that your tax money goes to subsidize science?
Do you care that your tax money goes to subsidize Elon Musk?
Education, science, energy are good uses.
Elton Musk's EVs and X are poor uses, the space exploration and some other things have some use
Maybe they should burn a Tesla instead?
Hmmm....
Who???
A large ($40m annual budget), well known, climate advocacy group who are opponents of fossil fuel subsidies.
No.
And it also subsidizes millions of illegals and fake green energy studies, and all the other shit that the libs have heaped upon the taxpayers.
That's if you believe all the faux science that proclaims it to be an imminent crisis. Most rational people don't
I don't favor one subsidy over another, but since I don't have a say so in the matter, I don't worry about.
Well faux science or imminent crisis aside, I'm fairly certain that burning a Tesla does more damage to the environment than a lifetime of driving a properly smogged Dodge Ram 3500.
No.
My tax dollars go to subsidize Planned Parenthood, but I don't bitch about it.
I tire of having to wade through your (not "you" individually, but "you" collectively) crap.
In this case, I looked at Oceana. It looked legit, so I read the linked page. The key sentence is
Problem: I know that this is not true. So I looked for a date on the page - there is none, but the most recent date cited in the text is 2009. The page is fifteen fucking years old!
Do you people ever pay attention to what you post??
Just to be sure, I googled
"What portion of US gasoline and diesel comes from US petroleum sources?"
My problem is that I don't know why you (collective) post this kind of stupidity. Are you (collective) intentionally wasting my time?
Is that solar... wind... coal... hydro... nuclear... squirrel-cage?
Does it matter?
All kinds If we can use it.
No problem with coal?
No problem with coal, I burn coal with wood when it is cold.
We have a lot of coal in this country and should use it efficiently
Then we are done.
Oh the irony.
Given the number of utterly clueless comments you've posted on the subject of trucks, that accusation is hilarious.
Interestingly, truck size and penis size are inversely proportional.
A lot of people who don’t have cool vehicles think that.
Cool is a relative term. Personally, I think big trucks are pathetic expenditures, particularly when the owner has no use for a truck, as evidenced by the spotless bed. Their warped vanity is costing them a ton of money in fuel, maintenance, insurance, and loan payments, and costs humanity in terms of carbon footprint. I have a need for a truck probably about ten times a year. Every time I just rent one from Home Depot or Lowe’s for $20/hr.
I think corvettes are cool. I like to joke around with my wife about how good I’d look in one. We both know that that is also a stupid expenditure. We’re pretty well off and not financially incapable of getting one, but we’re also not stupid about spending money.
I think everyone spends money on stuff they don’t need because it makes them happy. And I would say for the most part that it’s no one else’s business.
Regardless of whose business it is, everyone is allowed to have an opinion. Beyond that, I should think that needlessly exacerbating climate change is everyone’s business.
Ok, well then people who drive cars that are bigger or older or less fuel efficient than they absolutely need should also be scrutinized for their purchases. Unless you have to carry people all the time, you get no back seat. And also, it should be the most fuel efficient. Basically, anyone who isn’t driving a Prius owes the rest of us an apology, or money, or something.
Also, if you live in a house bigger than you need, you’re probably wasting money and fuel. You should probably live a very efficient apartment. And anyway, watering your lawn is a waste.
Also, generally stop buying plastic. How big is your TV? Do you own more than one set of clothes? Everybody who isn’t living like a monk and planting trees on a daily basis owes me money and an apology for ruining the environment.
Point taken, but vehicular emissions are a very large chunk of our CO2 problem that is exacerbated by oversized truck obsession. There are reasons to have a larger home and ways to reduce its energy consumption. A needlessly huge truck is just a needlessly huge truck, with immutable characteristics that are not climate friendly. It’s not an equal comparison.
And here I thought the lefties always questioned authority and didn't trust anyone over 30.
In almost every branch of science, disagreement and opposing opinions as to the facts and reality are par for the course
But when it comes to alleged climate change, any divergent views are denied and silenced.
Why? Since the science isn't really settled.
I'm done with you.
Is it though? Over the last 20 years, our greenhouse gas emissions have been steadily decreasing, even as the light truck market has grown.
I don’t think other people get to decide what I need. And anyway, why do I only have to buy the vehicle I need? Like many people, I have an emotional relationship with my vehicles. And no, I don’t use all of my truck’s uniquely truckish qualities every day, but I do use them.
I sold cars for part of a year, a long time ago, and one thing I can tell you from my experience is that almost no one buys the car they need.
Our greenhouse gas emissions have been decreasing due to all the efforts being made to reduce it from all its sources, but choosing a needlessly big truck is the opposite of that. We may as well get used to an irreversibly warming planet though since drill baby drill guy wants to make China’s manufacturing pollution problem our own. I’ve always pointed out how those smog photos from China are obviously correlated with their industrial might. If Trump’s dream comes true we can look forward to having that air to breathe.
When I got my Dodge PowerWagon it had a snowplow. I made good extra money plowing snow with it. After fixing it up and me being too old I won't push snow with it now