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David Brooks Calls for 'National Civic Uprising' to Defeat Trumpism

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  john-russell  •  last year  •  167 comments

By:   Michael Luciano (Mediaite)

David Brooks Calls for 'National Civic Uprising' to Defeat Trumpism
Conservative New York Times columnist David Brooks has called for a mass uprising to oppose President Donald Trump, going so far as to quote The Communist Manifesto.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


Conservative New York Times columnist David Brooks has called for a mass uprising to oppose President Donald Trump, going so far as to quote The Communist Manifesto.

In a blistering piece published on Thursday, Brooks wrote that modern civilization is buttressed by several pillars, including "Constitutions to restrain power, international alliances to promote peace, legal systems to peacefully settle disputes, scientific institutions to cure disease, news outlets to advance public understanding, charitable organizations to ease suffering, businesses to build wealth and spread prosperity, and universities."

He went on to say that Trump threatens all of these because the president is only interested in the acquisition of power "for its own sake" and is engaged in "a multifront assault to make the earth a playground for ruthless men."

Noting that Trump has targeted law firms, government agencies, NATO, and global trade, Brooks said these various efforts are part of a singular mission to reverse the "civilizational order." His solution is a multi-pronged response that is nonetheless united by a common goal:


It's time for a comprehensive national civic uprising. It's time for Americans in universities, law, business, nonprofits and the scientific community, and civil servants and beyond to form one coordinated mass movement. Trump is about power. The only way he's going to be stopped is if he's confronted by some movement that possesses rival power.
Peoples throughout history have done exactly this when confronted by an authoritarian assault. In their book, "Why Civil Resistance Works," Erica Chenoweth and Maria J. Stephan looked at hundreds of nonviolent uprisings. These movements used many different tools at their disposal — lawsuits, mass rallies, strikes, work slowdowns, boycotts and other forms of noncooperation and resistance.

Brooks went on to defend universities, which he has criticized for their progressivism.

Nonetheless, he said, "I have seen it over and over: A kid comes on campus as a freshman, inquisitive but unformed. By senior year, there is something impressive about her. She is awakened, cultured, a critical thinker. The universities have performed their magic once again."

He added that the civic uprising should "have a short-term vision and a long-term vision. Short term: Stop Trump. Foil his efforts. Pile on the lawsuits. Turn some of his followers against him. The second is a long-term vision of a fairer society that is not just hard on Trump, but hard on the causes of Trumpism — one that offers a positive vision."

In closing, he quotes Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels."

"I'm really not a movement guy," he wrote. "I don't naturally march in demonstrations or attend rallies that I'm not covering as a journalist. But this is what America needs right now. Trump is shackling the greatest institutions in American life. We have nothing to lose but our chains."


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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  seeder  JohnRussell    last year

If David Brooks is calling for revolution than shit has to be getting real. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.1  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @1    last year

Yawn, just another never Trumper.    From day one.

 
 
 
Robert in Ohio
Professor Guide
1.2  Robert in Ohio  replied to  JohnRussell @1    last year

If David Brooks is calling for revolution than shit has to be getting real.

John is he really calling for a "revolution" or is he advocating for an act of civil disobedience unrestricted by the traditional party, age, gender, sex, religion, social class etc division - i.e. "we the people" resisting, but peacefully?

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.2.1  bugsy  replied to  Robert in Ohio @1.2    last year

The problem most on the left does not see is if they had put up a better candidate, they would not have to worry about threatening those who voted for the better with civil unrest.

Many on the left that conduct these "unrests" are paid to do it and are called upon anytime something comes up in which they are "offended".

The only people that will listen to these loons are like loons.

No one that thinks critically cares. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.2  CB  replied to  Robert in Ohio @1.2    last year

We can do work stoppages. After all, if MAGA hates its fellow citizens that much, perhaps it should have the 'ugly' experience of getting along without them. See how this economy will operate (at its present level) without input from all its participants.

The people have power, but they must be willing and led to use it to contain power wielded against them and run amok!

Trump is the president. He is not the 'boss of us'? Not the boss of any of 'us.' When this nation forgets and twists who works for whom it will be another sad and unfortunate day for the world. This nation does not hire its leader to administer 'total domination' on them or to treat its citizens (any of us) like aliens in our own land.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.2.3  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @1.2.2    last year
After all, if MAGA hates its fellow citizens that much

You imagine they care enough about you to hate you.

When this nation forgets and twists who works for whom it will be another sad and unfortunate day for the world.

I've been warning against this very thing for years.  They are not our rulers, they are our employees.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.4  CB  replied to  Jack_TX @1.2.3    last year

Well, all that demonization, disinformation, and misgivings MAGAs tote around about non-conservatives. . . yeah, it's not love-it's we want you done. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
1.2.5  Ronin2  replied to  CB @1.2.4    last year

Right back at you.

It isn't conservatives firebombing and shooting up Tesla Dealerships. It isn't conservatives attempting to commit vehicular homicide against counter protestors and Tesla drivers. It isn't conservatives ramping up hateful rhetoric to get not one but 3 assassination attempts (that they will admit to) against a presidential candidate.

It sure as hell isn't conservatives bastardizing our legal system turning district federal judges into purveyors of national law enforcement. Judge shopping is illegal- but the district of DC has become the power of the judicial system at the national level.

When it comes to hate it is all Democrats/leftists know. Democrats back and embolden their brown shirts. Then blame the other side for all violence.

Your side lost the election- it wasn't stolen. Democrats flat out lost because of their fucked up policies that the majority of voters don't support; and thinking they can run whatever loser they want. Forget honest and open primaries- they don't exist for on the Democrat side. They haven't since 2008.

But keep up the rhetoric. I am sure you will make Trump's words ring true. "if you want to fight against the country you need an F-15. You need something a little more than a gun. No, I am not joking." Oh wait, that was Brandon who threatened to use the US military against his political opponents not once, but twice.

Throw in Democrat's attempts to federalize all election laws; and pack the Supreme Court. Which party weaponized the IRS, FBI, CIA, and DOJ against their political opponents- creating a two tier justice system where crimes by leftists were ignored?

Everything is fine in leftist world so long as they are in charge.

How about Democrats/leftists take care of their own damn house for a change; and stop demonizing everyone that doesn't agree with them?

 
 
 
Robert in Ohio
Professor Guide
1.2.6  Robert in Ohio  replied to  bugsy @1.2.1    last year

bugsy

Take your eyes off the past and focus on now and the future

Things are getting more chaotic and more screwed up by the day - the government and the country is in chaos.

What is to be done to reverse that trend is the real question.

 
 
 
Robert in Ohio
Professor Guide
1.2.7  Robert in Ohio  replied to  CB @1.2.2    last year
The people have power, but they must be willing and led to use it to contain power wielded against them and run amok!  
Trump is the president. He is not the 'boss of us'? Not the boss of any of 'us.' 

Interestingly put and sound reasoning.

I would add only a thought, misquoting someone as I do it, we must remember that those taking hammers and hatchets to the country and the economy "will not go gentle into the night".  There will be tremendous blow black to any resistance - they like being in power. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2.8  devangelical  replied to  Ronin2 @1.2.5    last year
Which party weaponized the IRS, FBI, CIA, and DOJ against their political opponents- creating a two tier justice system

...

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Professor Participates
1.2.9  Drakkonis  replied to  Robert in Ohio @1.2.6    last year
What is to be done to reverse that trend is the real question.

The way things have been going over the last 20 years or so, I think it would now take an act of God to fix this mess. 

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Professor Participates
1.2.10  Right Down the Center  replied to  devangelical @1.2.8    last year

Democrats

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.2.11  bugsy  replied to  Robert in Ohio @1.2.6    last year

My post focused on the here and now....what the loons on the left are doing right at this moment.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.12  CB  replied to  Robert in Ohio @1.2.7    last year

"There is nothing to fear but fear itself."  Franklin D. Roosevelt. 

And so I ask when did the United States begin to fear its own? If a bully tells you to your face that he is coming for you. . . do you: 

1. Prepare for the 'Visit'?

2. Lay a 'table-cloth'  across your lap and wait for the assault you will surely receive?

3. Build a team of your own and convince the bully that when s/he comes reaching for you they will draw back a numb?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.13  CB  replied to  Ronin2 @1.2.5    last year

I have no idea what you are bothering to share there. Only a fool would be persuaded by an amassing of disjointed accounts from around the country failing proper contexts being told through a set of MAGA lens. The time is not well-served even trying to dignify it will further comment.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.14  CB  replied to  Robert in Ohio @1.2.6    last year

Clearly, this is not chaos for MAGA. They are 'at-home' in this cesspool that is the heart of the country being ripped out to be replaced by autocratic rule. Hell, I am pretty sure they mean to make Trump president for 'life' if they are not stopped! After-all, he is the first to give them exactly what they want and damn the opposition's perspective entirely. What is that you ask? White Christian Nationalism.

That is the end-game being staged presently. 

And some may think that is a good 'conclusion' to want to see. That is, until they try reliving under it. Because I will remind these fools this country lived under it before! And it did not 'live' well and it caused the country to be ASHAMED of itself!

Of course, now MAGA wants to white-wash the past. . . forget SHAME. . .and repeat the dumb, stupid, old tired out actions for which their children will be ASHAMED in 'next' generations. And turn to 'white-washing,' and forgetting Shame, leading to more generations of ASHAMED children. . . .

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.15  CB  replied to  Drakkonis @1.2.9    last year

What "act of God" might one suppose would "fix this mess"? 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.16  TᵢG  replied to  Drakkonis @1.2.9    last year

This will be fixed (if at all) only by acts of human beings.   In particular the voices and eventually the votes of sensible people.   I do wonder if there are enough sensible people left to counteract whatever it is that causes people to actually support people like Trump.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.17  CB  replied to  CB @1.2.12    last year

Oops! 

3. Build a team of your own and convince the bully that when s/he comes reaching for you they will draw back a nub.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.18  CB  replied to  TᵢG @1.2.16    last year

A leader can not alienate citizens in this country without it causing consequences! The voting public would be a conglomeration of fools to give away the only power they constitutionally possess to a man who has given evidence that he will change nothing about himself but will effectively change them (if they allow it). 

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.2.19  bugsy  replied to  Robert in Ohio @1.2.6    last year
the government and the country is in chaos.

Only thing in chaos is the democratic party.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.20  CB  replied to  TᵢG @1.2.16    last year

I am pretty sure the sensible people in question won't be Christian-nationalists. They are a real and present danger. Them with their self-righteous dictates and tying of the church to the flag and constitution of the country. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.21  CB  replied to  bugsy @1.2.19    last year

Proof statement that the MAGA system leads by presidential fiat as demonstrated presently. 

 
 
 
Robert in Ohio
Professor Guide
1.2.22  Robert in Ohio  replied to  bugsy @1.2.19    last year

256

The entire country is in chaos because of his irresponsible actions.

He has brought disgrace to the office of POTUS and besmirched the image of the country to the entire world.

 
 
 
Robert in Ohio
Professor Guide
1.2.23  Robert in Ohio  replied to  CB @1.2.14    last year

Trump is driving the clown car (full of his totally inept cabinet) at high speed directly toward the wall which is labelled recession on one side and depression on the other side.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.24  CB  replied to  Robert in Ohio @1.2.23    last year

And oddly enough that may be the method to this madness: To 'smash' the federal government requiring it to reconstitute itself in his image and whatever springs up will be the (new) default! Sad for him and MAGA it will surely have to be broken again. I do not agree with those who suggest it will take long to repair or rebuilt the system. . . in fact, we might be able to build government back better without the clutter. :)

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.25  TᵢG  replied to  Robert in Ohio @1.2.22    last year
He has brought disgrace to the office of POTUS and besmirched the image of the country to the entire world.

How anyone cannot see this, at this point, is hard to fathom.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.2.26  bugsy  replied to  Robert in Ohio @1.2.22    last year

Hilarious..

I am part of that "entire country" and am doing just fine, as are probably pretty close to the other 77 million that voted for Trump.

Seems like the only ones experiencing chaos are those that are perpetually triggered.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.27  CB  replied to  bugsy @1.2.26    last year
I am part of that "entire country" and am doing just fine, as are probably pretty close to the other 77 million that voted for Trump.

So. . . you are the only one you can be absolutely certain of in this pack of probably 77 million. That is not even close to how you wish it to come across.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Professor Participates
1.2.28  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @1.2.25    last year
How anyone cannot see this, at this point, is hard to fathom.

Really? I think it is quite easy to fathom. Just listen, I mean really listen to the folks that don't see it the same way. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.29  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @1.2.26    last year
I am part of that "entire country" and am doing just fine, as are probably pretty close to the other 77 million that voted for Trump.

1*FHL6pzPxjgwqa_xOjLlgfw.jpeg

You do not invest in the stock market?    You are not a consumer?     You have no problem with the PotUS breaking the law and violating the CotUS?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.30  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @1.2.28    last year

Yet another comment that offers nothing but a platitude.

Explain to us, provide some value, how Trump has not disgraced the office of PotUS with his abysmal behavior (e.g. just read his Easter message), terrible handling of global trade, demonstrated ignorance of how trade and tariffs work, and truly stupid claims such as turning Gaza into a Riviera of the Mideast (among many other things).

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Professor Participates
1.2.31  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @1.2.30    last year

Thank you for your opinion and proving my point about not willing or able to listen, I mean actually listen. Seems you might not really want to fathom anything

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.32  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @1.2.31    last year

And again you offer nothing of value.   I asked you to explain and you have nothing.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.33  CB  replied to  Right Down the Center @1.2.31    last year

Okay. I'm listening. . . the 'floor' is yours. I am going to actually listen before replying. That is, I will only ask a question or comment if it is necessary. . .as you make your point/s.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Professor Participates
1.2.34  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @1.2.32    last year

[deleted][✘]

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Professor Participates
1.2.35  Right Down the Center  replied to  CB @1.2.33    last year

[deleted][✘]

 
 
 
Robert in Ohio
Professor Guide
1.2.36  Robert in Ohio  replied to  bugsy @1.2.26    last year

bugsy

I live in rural Ohio which went heavy for Trum in 2024 - there were flags, signs and red hats everywhere.......Until the cutbacks started and people started losing their jobs, clinics cut back on services, armers started to worry about selling their harvests and people watched the stock market crash and worried about their savings and retirement.

Now few signs, few flags and less and less red hats every day.

People are scared and worried about what Trump might do next

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Junior Quiet
1.2.37  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Robert in Ohio @1.2.36    last year
People are scared and worried about what Trump might do next

As they 'rightfully" should be. With his track record, every single one of US, needs to be worried about Trumps' next course of action. Everything he does is chaos. The last thing the market needs. His juvenile vengefully driven path of retribution is an obvious sign that he is incapable of steady leadership, acts like a spoiled toddler, (sorry toddlers) with his unprofessional adversarial and victimized tone abouelt those evil Dems who have supposedly jumped out of that clown car and left a brick on the accelerator as we hurl towards that bridge abutmeant for US, cause only almost half went along, due to his lying dance, and twisted song, of bringing down ALL prices, ending the Russian induced Ukraine War all on day ONE ! And as the ice berg is all lined, he would lettuce speed up, full speed dead ahead of US, just for some Crazy asz reason, this Crazy Captain is a wanting to wanna take US All DOWN, and yet still, after ALLm he has done, they a tempt to excuse and explain, what and why, when he and it(excuses) are just insane.

Ps( what approximate area in Ohio are you, cause i was just recently there, and am returning this weekend. I found people near where i am going to be extremely nice, polite, and from somewhere out of our past, and stated in a good way. It was very nice country and reminded me of much of the mountanous areas of Nothern and western Pa. i;m referring to South Eastern Ohio, nice area

 
 
 
Robert in Ohio
Professor Guide
1.2.38  Robert in Ohio  replied to  Igknorantzruls @1.2.37    last year

Near the PA border in Amish country - very quiet, beautiful and peaceful retirement

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Junior Quiet
1.2.39  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Robert in Ohio @1.2.38    last year
very quiet, beautiful and peaceful retirement

Yes, i found it to be the same. Nice people and areas. I'll be in an area South of Zanesville, though most think I am IN Zanesville...

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.2.40  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @1.2.4    last year
yeah, it's not love

Do you not understand the concept of apathy?

They don't love you.  They don't hate you. They don't think about you.  They don't care.

They only start to care when you want to interrupt their lives.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.41  CB  replied to  Jack_TX @1.2.40    last year

You want to talk about somebody interrupting lives?!! Seriously. Let me see if I can put this. . . kindly (gritting teeth).

MAGA is entirely interested in Others and what others get and hold on to. Which is why Trump is trying to be a 'forever' president and past his prize on to his pick for 'crown prince' J. D.Vance. A person who was less focused on beating the rule of law out the country would simply (and humbly) serve his best for all the people and properly quit. But no, Trump will have to lose (because surely MAGA and the GOP will let him run as the 'forever' candidate) and the new president elect will have to manifest that she/he will move in on-top of a defunct former president and his 'forever' entourage. 

Oh yes, we're seen alright. Damn right MAGA sees 'us' otherwise that pushback and tension being experienced would not be real. Hell yes, it is a reality.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.2.42  Trout Giggles  replied to  CB @1.2.4    last year

more like we want you DEAD and BURIED

and I don't want any of the MAGA ites here to tell me "nuh-uh....we don;t hate you...that much"

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.44  CB  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.2.42    last year

And let me be clear(er). I do not wish White Christian Nationalists ill-will. They can have their own: version of 'Whiteness,' version of Christianity, and version of nationalism. . . when it causes no harm to anybody else outside of their circle. Same to every other group, in my opinion. If that is what they want for themselves go for it.

This goes out of bounds when they try to conscript society into their category of norms. By doing so, pushing into oblivion Others (minorities, secularists, and women). That is now and always shall be out of order, in my opinion. 

Let's all enjoy a measure of community freedoms together or let us all suffer each other presence as we do now. It's a simple choice which version of society is more practical in today's world. :)

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.2.45  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @1.2.41    last year
MAGA is entirely interested in Others and what others get and hold on to.

Be specific.  

that pushback and tension being experienced 

Again, be specific.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.2.46  Jack_TX  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.2.42    last year
more like we want you DEAD and BURIED

You've been threatened?  By whom?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.2.47  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @1.2.44    last year
This goes out of bounds when they try to conscript society into their category of norms.

Interesting.

That's exactly what they say about the far left.  Maybe you all are not so different as you imagine.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.48  CB  replied to  Jack_TX @1.2.45    last year

Get real. Again: get real. My patience for foolishness is 'ended.' Let's began with the wholly removal of trans-people from the armed services on a pretext that a 'disability' is caused when a trans-individuals have a medical procedure. How are all trans-persons negatively affecting military readiness?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.2.49  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @1.2.48    last year
Get real.

Exactly what I asked you to do.  Why is it so difficult?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.50  CB  replied to  Jack_TX @1.2.49    last year

.I supplied you a specific. A real reply is urgently requested.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.51  CB  replied to  Jack_TX @1.2.47    last year

MAGA is casting itself as the people of RETRIBUTION. Societies can not thrive on retribution and the tearing down of good. Good is defined by mercy, compassion, good-will, and reason. 

Thus, MAGA is morally bad (lacking in mercy, compassion, and good-will) to punish whole groups of citizens for the harms done by any one individual or group.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.52  CB  replied to  CB @1.2.51    last year

In addition, it is unreasonable for MAGAs not to expect push-back and tension when it meddles and vexes good people trying to earn a living so they can feed themselves, their children, their aged, their disabled, and have something stowed for their senior years in retirement. MAGAs have no right to stifle progress in those areas of life in our national at-large community.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.2.53  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @1.2.50    last year
I supplied you a specific.

I'm sorry.  It must have slipped by in all the flowery verse.  What was it again?

MAGA is casting itself as the people of RETRIBUTION. 

BTW, this isn't specific.  This is your own abstract, philosophical interpretation.  Specific means something someone has actually done.

Societies can not thrive on retribution and the tearing down of good.

Societies cannot thrive without the rule of law.

Good is defined by mercy, compassion, good-will, and reason.

You seem to be skipping over the fact that each of those terms is extremely subjective and each requires its own definition.

to punish whole groups of citizens

Which groups of citizens and how are they being punished?  Be specific.

when it meddles and vexes good people trying to earn a living

Who and how?  Be specific.

MAGAs have no right to stifle progress in those areas of life in our national at-large community.

Who are they stifling and how?  Be specific.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.54  CB  replied to  Jack_TX @1.2.53    last year

Well, here we are with meaningless rhetoric to dispense with. Get real. Among the 'flowery' stuff at 1.2.48 is a specific on transgendered service people that was disregarded. It needs urgent attention.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.2.55  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @1.2.54    last year
transgendered service people that was disregarded

I wasn't sure what "wholly removal" was, so I just let it go.

I will presume you are referring to the disqualification from military service of people with gender dysphoria or who have recently undergone gender transition treatments.

I'll let some of the guys who have been in combat lend their expertise to this, but I'm told that war can actually be a very physically demanding situation.  Because of that, the US armed forces exclude all sorts of people for all sorts of physical  situations.

We also disqualify people with sleep apnea.  Or who use hearing aids.  Or who are color blind.  Or if they've broken bones too many times in their life.  Or if they're too short or tall.  Or they have asthma.  Or if they're diabetic.

The military requires people to be deployable at all times, for obvious reasons.  Ongoing need for hormone therapy makes that unworkable, just like an ongoing need for insulin.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.56  CB  replied to  Jack_TX @1.2.55    last year
The military requires people to be deployable at all times, for obvious reasons.  Ongoing need for hormone therapy makes that unworkable, just like an ongoing need for insulin.

So why were transgendered people performing in the services under other presidents, bearing no classification as a disability when not affecting major activities,. . .yet, for some unclear reason transgendered persons will not be allowed to get their 'shit' straight under a MAGA-inspired 'Commander'?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.57  CB  replied to  Jack_TX @1.2.55    last year
The military requires people to be deployable at all times, for obvious reasons. 

Do you have a specific 'military-styled' deployment in mind? Because there are plenty people in the services who can not be deployed for periods of time and reside stateside. And, for sure, transgendered persons on medications can be deployed and 'workable.' So be clear.

Since you likened transgenderism to a disability. Share your thought on this disability and its classification, please.

Take as long as you need. I will wait. . . . 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.2.58  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @1.2.56    last year
So why were transgendered people performing in the services under other presidents

Politics.  Let's don't pretend the Biden Administration didn't ignore common sense for the sake of politics on a regular basis.

yet, for some unclear reason

It's not unclear at all.  You just don't like the answer.  

Do you have a specific 'military-styled' deployment in mind?

I can think of several.  We could start with any forward deployment where your unit might get cut off from supplies for a period of time.

Since you likened transgenderism to a disability.

I don't think I did.  I'm not sure if the military does or not.

But let's be clear here.  Current military standards would disqualify world class athletes like LeBron James or Dwight Howard, who are in peak physical condition and would be extremely formidable in any hand-hand combat scenario.  But you're worried about fairness toward trans people. 

I'm not sure you understand what the purpose of the US military actually is.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.59  CB  replied to  Jack_TX @1.2.58    last year
Let's don't pretend the Biden Administration didn't ignore common sense for the sake of politics on a regular basis.

What is "common sense" about having capable and able-bodied men and women sitting on the sidelines-especially since women serve on active duty? 

Cut off from 'supplies' - meaning what exactly? Incidentally, is combat the only form of military service you can discuss, because it is not the only form of military service.

The military does not. Since you are not sure do explain why you felt it appropriate to write this: "The military requires people to be deployable at all times, for obvious reasons. " Well, since you state the reason is obvious - it is not a far reach to discern the meaning you give is undeployable trans-people have a disability. 

It that is not acceptable to you, it would be helpful if you would take time to be clear and not leave your reasoning up for interpretation.

Your second to last statement has no validity or qualified reason for such a disqualifying action - especially as you grant both men, Lebron and Dwight,their physical prowess, respectively.  More to the point, neither man is a trans-person that we know. Furthermore. . . transgenderism is not a disability.

As for the purpose of the U.S. Military actually is - maybe, you can tell us all next time. Then, we will certainly 'know' what you think it is. Be clear when you do, however.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
1.2.60  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @1.2.57    last year
Because there are plenty people in the services who can not be deployed for periods of time and reside stateside.

Those are the people who, in my experience, are being removed from military service for various reasons.  A very large segment of them are individuals that slows a unit's progression in training, and capabilities.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
1.2.61  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @1.2.57    last year
Since you likened transgenderism to a disability. Share your thought on this disability and its classification, please.

That's easy.  The Department of Defense has it as a disability. 

The nice thing about the military is that, regardless of branch, everything is written down.  And at all levels, DoD, branch specific, and location specific regulations are written to make things clear. 

In those regulations, it outlines disqualifying factors for service.  Mental illnesses do not qualify for service.  Paragraph 6.1 a and b already disqualify trans from service.  Paragraph 6.28 m addresses the suicidal tendencies that are present in the trans community and 6.28 t covers the gender dysphoria.

DoDI 6130-03 Volume 1

6.1. MEDICAL STANDARDS.
a. Unless otherwise stipulated,   the conditions listed in this section are those that do not meet the standard by virtue of current diagnosis, or for which the candidate has a verified past medical history.   The medical standards for appointment, enlistment, or induction into the Military Services are classified into general systems in Paragraphs 6.2. through 6.30.
b. Unless otherwise stipulated,   the standards in this section apply to an applicant’s biological sex or the presence of male or female sex organs or tissue   .
(emphasis mine)
Anybody male CLAIMING to be female (and vise versa) will be turned away 
6.28. LEARNING, PSYCHIATRIC, AND BEHAVIORAL DISORDERS.
Given the suicide rate among certain demographics:
m. History of suicidality, including:
(1) Suicide attempt(s);
(2) Suicidal gesture(s);
(3) Suicidal ideation with a plan; or
(4) Any suicidal ideation within the previous 12 months
t. History of gender dysphoria if:
(1) Symptomatic within the previous 18 months; or
(2) Associated with comorbid mental health disorders.
(all emphasis mine)
 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.62  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.61    last year

You are going with the stated DoD policy which is a denial of entrance into the services and not what is currently tanspiring - Trump's executive order stating transgenderism is incompatible with the armed services and removal of Obama/Biden presidencies executive orders allowing for not only entry into the services for trans-people, but medical support as well. Medical Support, disability protection, from Health and Human Services.

Now, Trump's Health and Human Services secretary Oz is removing those' functional' disability protections and disallowing medical services to transitioning youth and adults to be ended. 

Btw, let me clarify something. It would seem that "disability" is being used in this discussion in two distinct ways. 1. As not having the capability to accomplished normal tasking.  2. Disability, as a class in order to have certain protections (such as: race; religion; sex) under an executive order or law.

What this says about the 'hatefulness' of  MAGA is just 'incredible.'

It is really nasty and unfortunate that trans-people should have 'straight people' carrying on a tug of war over their right to freedom and liberty in a country that supposedly prides itself on it.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
1.2.63  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @1.2.62    last year
You are going with the stated DoD policy which is a denial of entrance into the services and not what is currently tanspiring - Trump's executive order stating transgenderism is incompatible with the armed services and removal of Obama/Biden presidencies executive orders

If you actually read the EO, you would see it references this DoDI and several other regulations. 

What this says about the 'hatefulness' of  MAGA is just 'incredible.'

Look at the effective date of the DoDI.  Your blame is completely misplaced.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.64  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.63    last year

Don't gloss over this: Trump is forgoing the DoD policy by attempting to remove transgenderism from the military.  I saw the effective date on the DOD policy (with changes) and though it is curious. . .I can only presume all the politics that ebbs and flows around this subject matter gained some 'purchase' in a document.

More importantly, Obama and Biden 'superceded' DoD policy with EXECUTIVE ORDERS allowing these people, humans, to serve their country and to solemn members of the military in every way they can/could. Trump twice (during separate presidencies) issued his EXECUTIVE ORDERS (2) canceling out the two other presidents! Which shows more that where Trump's 'heart' is on the matter. . .it also shows where MAGAs hearts are to push him to do it!

This is proof of the cruelty and abuse of Others. . . simply because one can do it. So therefore- it is done!

Finally, the DoD policy can be politically corrected, the executive orders can cease, congress can act. But, of course, for any of that to happen it would take a change of heart in more than just democrat congresspersons. . . it would take some republicans (maybe just a few). But none are willing, it seems.

So here we are. With you stridently standing on a statement in a document as a proof of why, 'trans-people can't cope.'  Shame on the Shameless. 

Once upon a time. There was a DoD policy that stated homosexuals could not serve in the military because the DSM manuals of mental disorders classified homosexuality as a mental disorder. The conservatives 'ran' with that for all it was worth politically . . until they could not pretend not to be 'enlightened,' and kept homosexuals out being 'one' with their fellow citizenry. The DSM manuals removed that negative and harmful classification.  Next.

Then came the lie that homosexuals could be subjects of blackmail. Because, well, homosexuality acts. The conservatives 'ran' that lie for all the 'mileage' it could give too. Then, some courageous people can to the realization: you can not blackmail homosexuals if the behavior was decriminalized and destigmatized. That was all it took to end that nightmarish lie and hindrance, and to allow homosexuals to serve their country alongside and just like their fellow citizens—which they have always been anyway.

These problems are social constructed problems. Get rid of the pretexts. We know what is happening here. This is policy created to deny people the same rights, privileges, and freedoms MAGA feel they, and their associates alone, should have. Why? Because MAGA think they are the only true 'Americans.' And everybody else here are second-class citizens beneath them.

Change the damn DOD policy statement (it's a damn piece of paper anyway) and take the politics of suppression out and put liberty, freedom, and justice for all in to it!

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
1.2.65  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @1.2.64    last year
Trump is forgoing the DoD policy by attempting to remove transgenderism from the military.

See DoDI 6130-03 Volume 1 (link in 1.2.61).  That is the DoD policy.

Obama and Biden 'superceded' DoD policy with EXECUTIVE ORDERS 

Yet the regulations never changed.  In fact, DoDI 6130-03 Volume 1 became effective under Biden.  So much for those EOs..

This is proof of the cruelty and abuse of Others.

That's one opinion.

Finally, the DoD policy can be politically corrected

Political correctness doesn't work in the military.  

Once upon a time. There was a DoD policy that stated homosexuals could not serve in the military

Oh goody.  Unrelated story time.  Lets change the topic because....

This is policy created to deny people the same rights, privileges, and freedoms MAGA feel they,

Once again DoDI 6130-03 Volume 1 became effective under Biden.  

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.66  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.65    last year
Once again DoDI 6130-03 Volume 1 became effective under Biden. 

Not true.

DOD INSTRUCTION 6130.03, VOLUME 1 
MEDICAL STANDARDS FOR MILITARY SERVICE:
APPOINTMENT, ENLISTMENT, OR INDUCTION

Originating Component: Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness

Effective: May 6, 2018 
Change 1 Effective: September 4, 2020 

Releasability: Cleared for public release. Available on the Directives Division Website 
at .

Reissues and Cancels: DoD Instruction 6130.03, “Medical Standards for Appointment, 
Enlistment, or Induction in the Military Services,” April 28, 2010, as amended\

Approved by: Robert L. Wilkie, Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness
Change 1 Approved by: Matthew P. Donovan, Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness

Back on it later. Long day.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.67  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.61    last year
t. History of gender dysphoria if:
(1) Symptomatic within the previous 18 months; or
(2) Associated with comorbid mental health disorders


Gender dysphoria is a 'disorder' caused by: 

With the publication of DSM–5 in 2013, “ gender identity disorde r” was eliminated and replaced with “ gender dysphoria. ” This change further focused the diagnosis on the gender identity-related distress that some transgender people experience (and for which they may seek psychiatric, medical, and surgical treatments) rather than on transgender individuals or identities themselves.

The presence of gender variance is not the pathology but dysphoria is from the distress caused by the body and mind not aligning and/or societal marginalization of gender-variant people .

It needs to be ego-dystonic to qualify as a diagnosis and having a discussion with our patients about the diagnosis prior to charting it is necessary and good care.

The DSM–5 articulates explicitly that “gender non-conformity is not in itself a mental disorder.”

The 5th edition also includes a separate “gender dysphoria in children” diagnosis and for the first time allows the diagnosis to be given to individuals with disorders of sex development (DSD). DSM–5 also includes the optional “post-transition” specifier to indicate when a particular individual’s gender transition is complete. In this “post-transition” case, the diagnosis of gender dysphoria would no longer apply but the individual may still need ongoing medical care (e.g., hormonal treatment). Nevertheless, discussions continue among advocates and medical professionals about how best to preserve access to gender transition-r elated health care while also minimizing the degree to which such diagnostic categories stigmatize the very people that physicians are attempting to help.



CB: 

Eureka! So, the issue is NOT Gender incongruence (formerly called: transsexualism). It is 'gender dysphoria'  and that is a condition some- not all- gender incongruent individuals can experience due to SOCIETAL STIGMATIZATION and ASSOCIATED DISTRESSES.

I repeat: Gender incongruence is not a mental disorder ( ), but the pressures social CONSERVATIVES put on gender incongruent persons can cause 'fracturing' and other maladies to their mental health.

Once again, we have conservatives creating a problem for other folks and then crying out that "others" can't cope! It's a game of circular reading. Conservatives causing societal problems and hindering "others" with their phony and dangerous 'solutions' to the problems they created .

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.68  CB  replied to  CB @1.2.67    last year

Jeremy, why is the Trump Administration, asking for a total ban on non-suing servicemembers and one applicant for the service? Many trans-people serving and aspiring to serve their country (like you did) are not dealing with the stresses and strains of gender dysphoria. Why does Trump's MAGAs detest trans-people?

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
1.2.69  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @1.2.67    last year

See DoDI 6130-03 Volume 1 (link in 1.2.61 ).

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
1.2.70  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @1.2.68    last year
why is the Trump Administration, asking for a total ban on non-suing servicemembers and one applicant for the service?

You don't fully understand what enforcing an existing standard really means.

Why does Trump's MAGAs detest trans-people?

Once again DoDI 6130-03 Volume 1 became effective under Biden.  Why did the Biden Administration put this into effect?  Your misplaced anger isn't making you look any better.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.71  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.70    last year
Once again DoDI 6130-03 Volume 1 became effective under Biden.  Why did the Biden Administration put this into effect?  Your misplaced anger isn't making you look any better.

Prove it (if you can) and if you can't - then, it is. . .untrue.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.72  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.69    last year

See 1.2.66 (red letters).

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.73  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.70    last year

Why does Trump's MAGAs detest trans-people?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.2.74  Sparty On  replied to  CB @1.2.73    last year

Why do trans people detest little girls and women?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.75  CB  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.74    last year

You think trans-people detest girls and women. You will have to provide detail of your "analysis.' Because, to my knowledge, some relationships between trans-people involve women. Of course, girls are too young for such activities.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.2.76  Sparty On  replied to  CB @1.2.75    last year

Why else would they feel right competing against biological women where they had such an unfair advantage?    They certainly don’t respect women’s rights.    They want to render Title Nine meaningless.    

For the  life of me I can’t understand what happened to all the Title Nine  proponents out there.    Hard to understand their silence here.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.77  CB  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.76    last year

Well that is the competitive sporting world. Trans-people  make up only 0.5% of the general population, and likely smaller proportion of highly trained athletes . ( ). 

As such, being competitive in sports is not the same as despising those with whom one competes .

So to be plain: The question is moot. Because it does not take account of the complexities of trans athletes and cis-women in sports.

BTW, the various FEDERATIONS in the sports field make the rules of the road for their sporting clubs and events, respectively. That is, trans-athletes can not enter any event where they lack OFFICIAL acceptance . Thus, the questions should be asked as such:

What are official sporting clubs looking at to come to decisions that allow trans-athletes to compete with other women? 

Are women sporting Officials and various federations being disrespectful and creating unfair advantages in women sports?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.2.78  Sparty On  replied to  CB @1.2.77    last year

To be plain, it’s all good until someone you care about, a daughter, a sister, a cousin, etc gets their ass kicked by a biological man in organized sports.     Ever wonder why the reverse isn’t a problem?    

That is to say a biological woman competing in men’s sports?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.79  CB  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.78    last year

Competitive sports has to work out its organizational interests in the realm of trans-athletes for participants and organizing purposes. After-all, they are the officials given authority over women's sports.  That said, this is from the link I provided at 1.2.77 :

2.2 . Sports and gender classifications

When discussing sex, gender, and participation in sports and athletics, the main point of contention seems to be who should or should not be allowed to participate. The International Olympic Charter states that “The practice of sport is a human right. Every individual must have the possibility of practicing sport, without discrimination of any kind…” ( 48 ). If taken on its face, this Olympic principle indicates that trans individuals should have no restrictions on access to sports and athletics, and that discrimination violates that human right.

The International Olympic Committee follows this principle in their most recent framework on fairness, however leaves the final decision on inclusion of transgender individuals to the various international federations on the basis of fairness and safety ( 49 ). This departure from the IOC consensus meeting on sex reassignment and hyperandrogenism acknowledged that one set of regulations did not account for the variability in different sport and athletic requirements, thus international federations would be best placed to make final determinations ( 49 – 51 ).

The IOC stressed the importance of an evidence-based approach to assessing under what circumstances trans individuals should be restricted from participation ( 49 ,  50 ) .

Many of the international federations do choose to restrict participation in their respective athletic events on the basis of either trans status or, based on the blood concentration of hormones for trans individuals ( 8 ,  11 ,  52 ). It is common for sport/athletic federations to cite certain scientific facts and studies to justify their provisions ( 8 ,  11 ,  52 ). However, while it is true that some average differences can be measured between cis and trans individuals, these can vary across different studies and different physiologic traits ( 15 ,  53 – 56 ).

While the sport/athletic federations provisions focus on mean differences between cis and trans individuals, they tend to ignore differences amongst a cis only population that lead to advantages, disadvantages, or confer no advantage in athletics and sport performance ( 11 ,  38 ,  40 ,  57 – 59 ). The total number of cis individuals that are naturally advantaged or disadvantaged would likely exceed the total number of transgender individuals wishing to compete based on their low proportion of the total population ( 60 ).

Hence, the exclusion of the transgender individuals from sports and athletics based solely on concerns of inequity or injury risk, may be a solution in search of a problem.

 

Note: Emphasis-CB.

More to the point, there are other types of relationships between cis-girls and cis-women and trans-people than those found in competitive sports. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
1.2.80  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @1.2.71    last year

Open the link in 1.2.61.  Look at the effective date. Been there the whole time.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
1.2.81  charger 383  replied to  CB @1.2.79    last year

Then they should form and fund their own sports league.   

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.82  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.80    last year

Then you can see for yourself the EFFECTIVE date:

DOD INSTRUCTION 6130.03, VOLUME 1 
MEDICAL STANDARDS FOR MILITARY SERVICE: 
APPOINTMENT, ENLISTMENT, OR INDUCTION
Originating Component: Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness  Effective: May 6, 2018. 

That will always be the first Trump presidency. 

Clearly, you are trying to connect the Biden (20 20 -2024) to Change 5. The Biden Administration made mostly administrative changes in Change 5:

Change 5 Effective: May 28, 2024



By  LOLITA C. BALDOR and ZEKE MILLER

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden signed an order Monday reversing a Trump-era Pentagon policy that largely barred transgender individuals from serving in the military.

The new order, which Biden signed in the Oval Office during a meeting with Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, overturns a ban ordered by President Donald Trump in a tweet during his first year in office. It immediately prohibits any service member from being forced out of the military on the basis of gender identity.

The decision comes as Biden plans to turn his attention to equity issues that he believes continue to shadow nearly all aspects of American life. Ahead of his inauguration, Biden’s transition team circulated a memo saying Biden planned to use his first full week as president “to advance equity and support communities of color and other underserved communities.”

As he signed the order on Monday, Biden said, “What I’m doing is enabling all qualified Americans to serve their country in uniform.”

“America is stronger, at home and around the world, when it is inclusive. The military is no exception,” the order says. “Allowing all qualified Americans to serve their country in uniform is better for the military and better for the country because an inclusive force is a more effective force. Simply put, it’s the right thing to do and is in our national interest.”

The order directs the departments of Defense and Homeland Security to take steps to implement the order for the military and the Coast Guard. And it says they must reexamine the records of service members who were discharged or denied reenlistment due to gender identity issues under the previous policy.



Now the Trump Administration is 'back'! Attempting to throw out all trans-individuals from SERVING THEIR COUNTRY  (even today 'begging' the Supreme Court for permission to let him strip  them  out so he can feel good that he has 'burly men' protecting him) , because "obviously" it makes the non-serving waivers ' of military service look bad to have 'trans' doing what they were too chicken to do and lied to not ever do.

 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.83  CB  replied to  charger 383 @1.2.81    last year

Au contraire, the Officials and federations sanction whom can participate in national and international sporting events and championships. And you read what their opinion is on the subject. You can choose to argue with it, you can feel this way or that way about it too. But, then you will have to ask yourself why? What's it to you. (Remember. "They" are the experts on the subject matter.)

Admittedly, I can see the dilemma for all involved. But I am not informed enough on the subject matter (nor are many of us) to try to override the professionals 'speaking.'

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.2.84  Sparty On  replied to  charger 383 @1.2.81    last year
Then they should form and fund their own sports league.   

Exactly

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.2.85  Sparty On  replied to  CB @1.2.79    last year

Still waiting for an answer to this question:

Ever wonder why the reverse isn’t a problem?     That is to say a biological woman competing in men’s sports?
 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.86  CB  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.85    last year

Why ask me? Do I convey to you in any way that I am an expert on women's sports,. . .or men's sports for that matter? I suggest you ask an AI generator (they are the 'rage' now for questions/answers.)

More importantly, you deliberated glossed over 1.2.79 because it did not suit your purposes! That shows insincerity to this discussion. You did so by using the fallacy of moving the goalpost . Unacceptable.


Here is your lead question 'spun off' from a question I asked Jeremy:

_v=63f541716489191
Professor Expert
1.2.74    Sparty On    replied to    CB   @ 1.2.73       yesterday

Why do trans people detest little girls and women?

To which you apparently did not like the answer to in succeeding comments: Wish explained that women and trans-people have simple and complex shared relationships together.
And now you wish to shift to men's sports (and 'demand' attention of it at that!). My response to you is that is beyond the scope of this discussion.         
 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.2.87  Sparty On  replied to  CB @1.2.86    last year

Why not?    This is a discussion board.    We ask questions here all the time.     Responses are appreciated.   Non responses are unacceptable and insincere. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.88  CB  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.87    last year

Because you are glossing over relevant information at 1.2.79 and moving the goal post without any acknowledge of the discussion that 'leads' it. Don't just 'gobble-up' discussion and give back nothing!  I, we, are not 'station' researchers for the site. That is, I, we, are not paid in any shape, form, or fashion to be here (for your private use). That is why!

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.2.89  Sparty On  replied to  CB @1.2.88    last year

Let me be clear.    I’ve glossed over nothing.    

All we get from you here is usually just defection, redirection, occasional projection and avoidance.

This case is no different.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.90  CB  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.89    last year

Yes, you glossed over 'everything' the sporting officials and federations are attempting to do with trans-people in sports. Just to continue with a narrative. . . one that was not even a part of the original topic asked of Jeremy.  So don't bother me with projection and ad hominem attack.

Since Jeremy is. . . away. . . perhaps you potentially can answer the question asked of him originally: 1.2.73  Why does Trump's MAGAs detest trans-people?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2.91  devangelical  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.60    last year
A very large segment of them are individuals that slows a unit's progression in training, and capabilities.

those would be the individuals that are unable to comprehend their oath to defend the constitution?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.92  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.60    last year

Just saw this one (thanks to Devangelical's recent comment). 

There is no declared war the United States is waging. So what? These people are SERVING THEIR COUNTRY in the best way they can and have a quality of life EQUAL relative to your OWN service. There is nothing wrong with that. Moreover, MAGA can not have it both ways. That is, if a CAREER in the military service was suitable for healthy or recovering heterosexual citizens. . .then, a CAREER in the military is suitable for trans-citizens that are healthy and recovering.

But, of course, we have WAIVERS that did not serve their country in their 'day,' who are running around talking about "lethality" when they DEFERRED multiple times. How are they to determine the actual worth of a service member or set of servicemembers?

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
1.2.93  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  devangelical @1.2.91    last year

Those are the ones being removed from military service for a wide variety of things.  Inability to perform their mission (physically, mentally), health reasons, UCMJ, drugs / alcohol issues, end of contract, retirement, etc..

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
1.2.94  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @1.2.92    last year
There is no declared war the United States is waging

Is that supposed to change something?

These people are SERVING THEIR COUNTRY in the best way they can and have a quality of life EQUAL relative to your OWN service.

 A very large segment of those "undeployable" are individuals that slows a unit's progression in training, and capabilities.  

How are they to determine the actual worth of a service member or set of servicemembers?

A very long list of regulations, training doctrine and the UCMJ.  You can start browsing the Army's long list of regulations, training doctrine here .  Each branch has their own for you to look through as well.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.2.95  Sparty On  replied to  CB @1.2.90    last year

Nope. Please reference 1.2.89 again …… Lather, rinse and repeat as necessary.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.2.96  Sparty On  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.93    last year

In other words, reasons military personnel have always been mustered out of service.

Nothing to see here ….. move along now ….

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
1.2.97  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.96    last year

Pretty much.  Apparently enforcing laws and standards is a bad thing.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2.98  devangelical  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.97    last year
Apparently enforcing laws and standards is a bad thing.

especially against criminal maga republicans ...

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.99  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.94    last year

So you glossed over the WAIVERERS?! Figures. Some only have compassion and commiseration for their own tribe. In this case, white straight heterosexual males. Wow, those minorities and "others" sure came in 'handy' when the chips were down in the revolution war, the civil war, and WWII! I wonder how many other wars were fought without 'them.'? 

Regulations are bull crap, and we all know it. They can change. . . like a president can—faster even.

Why does Trump's MAGAs detest trans-people?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.100  CB  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.95    last year

No can do.  original And, there "you" go again. . . . 'talking loud and saying nothing' can't substitute for a good substantially deep discussion. We are going to want more from MAGAs before we give it a seal of good 'talk'! :)

Why does Trump's MAGAs detest trans-people?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.2.101  Sparty On  replied to  CB @1.2.100    last year

Can’t speak for maga’s, whatever that is.    Can only speak for myself and biological men, competing against biological women, makes no sense.    None at all.    No hate involved.    The hate is coming from the other direction.

Now answer my question.    Why are biological women not trying to compete against biological men.    It’s common sense because for the most part they would be at disadvantage.    Any thinking person without an axe to grind understands the problem.   Your stance is nonsense.    Period.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.102  CB  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.101    last year
Can’t speak for maga’s, (sic) whatever that is.    Can only speak for myself and biological men, competing against biological women, makes no sense.

No, you can't speak for all biological men, because not all biological men are in the MAGA camp (you know what that is- you have been around here enough to see those who are in and lean in its direction.)

Why are biological women not trying to compete against biological men.    It’s common sense because for the most part they would be at disadvantage.    Any thinking person without an axe to grind understands the problem.   Your stance is nonsense.    Period.

You did not answer my question- it was shamelessly ducked and side-stepped by you. No matter. Moreover, as explained to you- - men's sports is not the discussion here. So I don't have to indulge in free-style discussion.  It strikes me that you went on bloviating and belching out an insult that in its own odd way seem to satisfy. . . you. So go with that. 

Sparty on: There is message for you on this page below. :)

If I was to indulge your question, it would go somewhat along the lines of this: Biological men would be in a league with trans-males and then the sporting officials will have to rule on the potential rules and policy issues that would rise as they do with any other league. That's right. It's the professional sports leagues and federations that have to resolve this issue. Not politicians holding a strict conservative viewpoint!

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.2.103  Sparty On  replied to  CB @1.2.102    last year

More nonsense that changes nothing.

Let me be perfectly clear ….. again …. Biological men should not compete against biological women.    End of story.    Full stop.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
1.2.104  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @1.2.99    last year
So you glossed over the WAIVERERS?

I didn't gloss over a damn thing.  Waivers are given / denied on a case by case basis. 

Regulations are bull crap, and we all know it.

That is what is being enforced.  Crying about it won't change anything.

Why does Trump's MAGAs detest trans-people?

Ask them.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.105  CB  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.103    last year

SORRY! Let me be 'perfectly' clear. What you are calling "biological male" is modified into gender identity and gender expression.in the field of gender incongruence.  

Apart from your 'go-to' - competition sports, for which 1.2.79 has responded to your 'concern,' there are plenty gender incongruent individuals who will never enter the limited world of sports competition. Jeremy led off with trans-people not being fit to serve in the military due to a Trump regulation that he can cope. Regulations can be changed as I pointed out that for decades homosexuals were blocked from serving in the armed forces due to a 'reg' which used blackmail as a reason to keep or kick them out of the service. Well, as it turned out the simple solution was to remove the 'offending' reg and voila(!) the entire issue of blackmailing homosexuals dissipated into the nothing it was all the time. 

Trump and MAGAs are using a reg he put in place in his first term, removing executive orders from other presidents, and pressing ahead to remove all transpeople from the FREEDOM they deserve to serve their country. Nothing could be less 'AMERICAN.' And MAGAs know this, but are too narrow-minded to admit it to themselves.

Thus, this issue is really not about trans-people being treated like SECOND-CLASS CITIZENS at all. It is about MAGAs putting up 'walls' and fences that block out freedoms for citizens in the country that they would like to stifle, detest, and see never prosper in our society. NOTHING COULD BE LESS AMERICAN!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.106  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.104    last year

Continue with your narrative. I will continue with mine. In the end, MAGAs will pass away. Because trans-people are here to stay! They will seek to actively stay in the military and in doing so work to make MAGAs the relics of a by-gone past that they are. Eventually, the stupid reg will be dealt with. Because it can't continue to all by its lonely destroy liberties for transpeople that MAGAs selfishly use for their benefit throughout their military careers and BEYOND.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
1.2.107  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @1.2.106    last year
Continue with your narrative.

The problem is my "narrative" has been backed up quite a few times in this thread.  Yours on the other hand is based solely in feelings and / or opinion.  The standards are there.  They are being enforced.  Cry, kick your feet, scream at the sky all you want.  It won't change a goddamn thing.  

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.2.108  Sparty On  replied to  CB @1.2.105    last year

Just for final clarity, let me be “infinitely” clear.    Again, see 1.2.95, 1.2.100 and 1.2.103.    The emotional nonsense you keep posting remains meaningless.    Trans is not a special class, so stop expecting it to be.

Enjoy the last word if you want to waste it.    Your argument is not even remotely persuasive so it won’t change anything.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.109  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.107    last year

Well, we will see how it turns out in court. (Where the challenge has been engaged presently.) And hopefully, congress, that source of representation for the voice of the people, will untwist its sideways collective butt, and help the people get righteous and just treatment across the board - all things being equal. Enough with MAGAs putting prejudicial rules in place and then quoting them (circular reasoning) as the source of the 'misery' to be imposed as a means to 'wall' or carve their fellow citizens out of a job or career.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.110  CB  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.108    last year

Ditto.

I'll take that last word this time. :)  We're have to see how this goes forward in the conservative SCOTUS because that is where it is presently headed. Then, we're gauge what more needs to be determined.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
1.2.111  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @1.2.109    last year
Well, we will see how it turns out in court.

Have fun with that.  

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.2.112  Sparty On  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.111    last year

The people have spoken.     A vast majority of Americans know that men playing women’s sports is insane.    75%

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
1.2.113  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.112    last year

I don't see the military changing their policies on it either.

But you know the left does't care about the people.  It's about control and what they can force on others.  Even if it is something make believe.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.114  CB  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.112    last year

Well, we know how fickle people can be, right? Let them speak, nevertheless. Now we just have to see what the sporting community has to say about it—ultimately. Transwomen are not traditional males as hormone treatments would dictate. But, continue with a disparaging 'analysis' anyway.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.2.115  Sparty On  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.113    last year

Yeah, some twisted folks out there.    No doubt about that.

Hegseth has been SecDef for less than 100 days and damnit.      Somehow we are all still here. jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.116  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.113    last year
But you know the left does't care about the people.  It's about control and what they can force on others.  Even if it is something make believe.

Actually, in the land of free-thinking people, anything goes as long as it causes no harm to another individual . In the land of narrow-minded thinkers, there are all sorts of 'embellishments,' disclosure attachments, and hangers on that hinder free-thinking. I mean, in a world where we find ourselves surrounded by diversity (which has always been the case) why is it sufficient to some to 'strap-down' diverse opinion and culture to a faux homogeneity of sameness?  

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
1.2.117  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.115    last year
Hegseth has been SecDef for less than 100 days and damnit.

And we are already seeing improvements here at Fort Bragg.

 Somehow we are all still here.

I know.  It's almost like some people were trying to gaslight others into the world ending.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.2.118  Sparty On  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.117    last year
And we are already seeing improvements here at Fort Bragg.

You knew you would but you won’t see that reported to any degree in our sad little left wing mass media.    Or here for that matter …..

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.119  CB  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.118    last year

I guess one's perspective matters considerably in how one concludes a point!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.120  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.117    last year
stated on March 4, 2025 in a speech to Congress:
"All armed services are having among the best recruiting results ever” because of Trump policies, and “it was just a few months ago where the results were exactly the opposite.”


meter-mostly-false.jpg

Donald Trump takes credit for military recruitment turnaround that started with Joe Biden

  • Armed services recruitment rose from 200,000 in fiscal year 2023 to 225,000 in fiscal year 2024, a 12.5% increase, under the Biden administration .

  • The U.S. Army made changes to boost recruitment during the Biden administration, including rolling out a prep course to help lower-performing recruits meet standards.

  • Military experts said it’s too early to say how President Donald Trump has or hasn’t influenced military recruitment six weeks into his term. The administration did not provide data to back the claim about what has happened under Trump.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.121  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.117    last year
And we are already seeing improvements here at Fort Bragg.

Would those improvements be due to the Homestead Project at Fort Bragg? If not, what other improvements do you have to share, and what do they have to do with this on-going thread?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.2.122  Sparty On  replied to  CB @1.2.120    last year

Yep, the old, take a snapshot gambit.    Classic.    Bidens policies led to missed recruiting goals several years for the first time in recent history and like recent history historic inflation, shows what a failure the Biden admin was.

So it increased from historic lows and Biden is taking credit for it?

Ridiculous.    The reason recruiting was at historic lows was because of Biden policy.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.123  CB  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.122    last year
Donald Trump  stated on March 4, 2025 in a speech to Congress :
"All armed services are having among the best recruiting results ever” because of Trump policies, and “it was just a few months ago where the results were exactly the opposite .”


meter-mostly-false.jpg

We report. You decide. Hopefully reasonably and fairly.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.2.124  Sparty On  replied to  CB @1.2.123    last year

Your comment spins a topic to support a preferred narrative, we blow that spin out the water with a complete picture and reality.

It’s almost too easy ..,,,

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.125  CB  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.124    last year

No you don't 'blow' anything. . . anywhere specific. I 'reported' what the media experts stated nothing else. Unless the thinking is only what MAGAs think on any given subject matter counts. . . accept it for what it is. Otherwise, as I know humans can be impressionable, in the words of past writers: 'a beautiful theory just got murdered by a brutal fact (check).'

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.2.126  Sparty On  replied to  CB @1.2.125    last year
No you don't 'blow' anything.

[✘] Once again, let me be perfectly clear. I simply point out the folly of your chosen “facts” as the disingenuous half truths that they are.

End of story, no debate left. Enjoy that coveted last word that you so enjoy ..,,

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.2.127  Sparty On  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.126    last year

[✘]

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
1.2.128  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @1.2.120    last year
The U.S. Army made changes to boost recruitment during the Biden administration

Changes are made under every administration.  That's nothing new.

Military experts said it’s too early to say how President Donald Trump has or hasn’t influenced military recruitment six weeks into his term.

don't care what the "experts" say.  I'm telling you what I'm seeing firsthand.  Biden fucked a lot of things up for the military and it showed.  Things are improving drastically in a short time.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
1.2.129  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @1.2.121    last year
Would those improvements be due to the Homestead Project at Fort Bragg?

Homestead Project, single soldier barrack, training facilities, infrastructure all being improved.  And all kicked off in the last few months.  

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.130  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.128    last year

Whatever, Jeremy. All I will say to you is this: Give credit where it is due. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.131  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.129    last year

Great. Presidents should do good things for "all" the people. I applaud it.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
1.2.132  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  CB @1.2.131    last year
Presidents should do good things for "all" the people. I applaud it.

I'll applaud it when I see the results. So far all they have are a bunch of programs given important sounding names being touted as if they've already fixed everything. There is no bigger windbag than Donald Trump and his hilariously incompetent cabinet of clowns. I will applaud their results if they actually manage to create a result worth applauding. So far, it's just been one monumental fuck up after another.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.133  CB  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.2.132    last year

Agreed.

I do take Jeremy at his pronouncement that he sees positive base changes in his surroundings, nevertheless. From what I can determine through research, there does appear to be 'great' activity occurring at Fort Bragg. BTW, my research states that the changes are JUST AT FORT BRAGG. That is, they are not occurring at all bases-nationally. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
1.2.134  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @1.2.130    last year
Give credit where it is due.

Exactly what I'm doing.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
1.2.135  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @1.2.133    last year
JUST AT FORT BRAGG

Why would I speak for locations I'm not at?  I'll leave that kind of speculation to others.  But you're free to come and see for yourself.  

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
1.2.136  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @1.2.131    last year

Yet here you are crying about it.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.137  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.135    last year

There was no need for superfluous overstatement. Take the assent freely given and move on. :)

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.2.138  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.136    last year

This is not about me. And for that reason, I won't make it about you! :)

Let me be clear, I want the president of our nation to do good for all the people, because we win that way. Otherwise, there is sorrow, discontentment, confusion, hurt, and depression spreading pervasively. I do not care who is building up Fort Bragg with needed housing. It is a good thing with each 'increase.' 

I have no tears over it. I have great joy for the soldiers who will get to live and potential work in their 'digs.'

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2.139  devangelical  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.74    last year
Why do trans people detest little girls and women?

sounds to me like somebody is already halfway there ...

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
1.2.140  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @1.2.138    last year
This is not about me

Your comments show otherwise.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.3  devangelical  replied to  JohnRussell @1    last year

according to trump's jerk-off buddy elon, all those trump protestors are being paid, which is pretty funny coming from him ...

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.3.1  bugsy  replied to  devangelical @1.3    last year

Have you sold your Tesla yet?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.3.2  devangelical  replied to  bugsy @1.3.1    last year

are you looking to buy a swastikar?

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.3.3  bugsy  replied to  devangelical @1.3.2    last year

I hear your side bought them out for "protests" against Jews at universities around the country. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.3.4  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @1.3.3    last year

A key problem stems from those who frame political reality as ‘your side’ vs. ‘my side’. 

There should be no ‘side’.   There are only issues, actions, and agents.  

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.3.5  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @1.3.4    last year
There are only issues, actions, and agents.  

Which becomes “sides” when people insult and taunt folks simply because of difference of issues, actions and agents.    It’s human nature.

Of course the party doing the insulting and taunting always thinks their position is righteous.    Always ….

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.3.6  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @1.3.5    last year
Which becomes “sides” when people insult and taunt folks simply because of difference of issues, actions and agents.

Those who think in terms of 'sides' are not thinking critically;  they are engaged in partisanship supported by confirmation bias.

Neither 'side' is always right (or always wrong).

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.3.7  devangelical  replied to  Sparty On @1.3.5    last year

pot/kettle.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.3.8  Sparty On  replied to  devangelical @1.3.7    last year

Never claimed otherwise. [deleted][✘]

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.3.9  devangelical  replied to  Sparty On @1.3.5    last year
Of course the party doing the insulting and taunting always thinks their position is righteous.

.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.3.10  Sparty On  replied to  devangelical @1.3.9    last year

Clear as day to the sane

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.3.11  devangelical  replied to  Sparty On @1.3.10    last year

it sure is, or was ...

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.3.12  Sparty On  replied to  devangelical @1.3.11    last year

I rest my case

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.3.13  devangelical  replied to  Sparty On @1.3.12    last year

.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
2  Greg Jones    last year

"The second is a long-term vision of a fairer society that is not just hard on Trump, but hard on the causes of Trumpism — one that offers a positive vision."

Trumpism is the direct result of unchecked progressivism. The people are rejecting the lies, negativity, and the hypocrisy of the progressives. The lefts only vision appears to be getting rid of Trump 

 
 
 
Thomas
Professor Guide
2.1  Thomas  replied to  Greg Jones @2    last year

Trumpism is a direct result of Trump seeing that he could grab hold of something and use it as a lever if he only lied enough.  So he said the economy was the worst that it has ever been (it was strong) - only he could fix it. He said that crime was the worst that it had ever been (it wasn't) -- only he could fix it.  He told us that tariffs would be paid by others (they are not)-- they're still coming. He said that he would be a boon to the stock market-- ohhhhhhh Fucked that one up, too. He didn't tell you that he was coming for your rights, your scientists, your weather forecasts, the disease controls, the FEC, the crackpot theories about fluoride,  USAID, .... the list goes on and on. But somehow certain people are like howdy doody or that cartoon character on bugs Bunny that says, "Hey! I want a whole lot o lumps"

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Expert
2.1.1  Gsquared  replied to  Thomas @2.1    last year

.... Social Security, Medicaid, academic freedom, the National Parks, America's standing in the world...

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
2.1.2  CB  replied to  Gsquared @2.1.1    last year

Why is their always, always, always somebody that tries the patience of this 'Union'? Here we are stuck with people who only want a select type of people to be free in a land that is made free for all who do no harm. These people know what they want, they are not children, and they definitely can rise to an occasion. . .and win from time to time. What is it about regressive politics that is so attractive that they are draw to? I will tell you: Domination. They seem to have an obsession with being free of others not like themselves. That can't work in a world where so many types and kinds of people are 'drawn together.' 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
2.2  MrFrost  replied to  Greg Jones @2    last year
Trumpism is the direct result of unchecked progressivism.

Look, if you don't like progress, maybe you should get off the internet. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.2.1  devangelical  replied to  MrFrost @2.2    last year

... or get off the planet.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.2.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  MrFrost @2.2    last year
maybe you should get off the internet. 

What? And not post my bon mots and witticisms every day?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
3  CB    last year
These movements used many different tools at their disposal — lawsuits, mass rallies, strikes, work slowdowns, boycotts and other forms of noncooperation and resistance.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
4  CB    last year
"I have seen it over and over: A kid comes on campus as a freshman, inquisitive but unformed. By senior year, there is something impressive about her. She is awakened, cultured, a critical thinker. The universities have performed their magic once again."

Pretty interesting assertion, coming from a conservative. Of course, dedicated MAGAs won't agree with anything positive coming from somebody who is not down with the 'scripting.' Blah!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
5  CB    last year

Let us see what actions come out of this 'request.'

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6  seeder  JohnRussell    last year

stock market today

800

 
 

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