Spirit Airlines shuts down, crushed by price of Iran war jet fuel
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
By Rob Wile and Jay Blackman
Spirit Airlines is shutting down, in a move that will affect thousands of scheduled flights and nearly as many employees.
The troubled budget carrier cancelled all flights and announced an "orderly wind-down" of operations, effective immediately early Saturday.
"To our Guests: all flights have been cancelled, and customer service is no longer available," the company said in a statement. "We are proud of the impact of our ultra-low-cost model on the industry over the last 34 years and had hoped to serve our Guests for many years to come," it added.
Spirit, which has struggled to maintain consistent profitability since the Covid-19 pandemic, had been looking to emerge from its second bankruptcy in less than a year. But those plans were derailed amid soaring jet fuel costs sparked by the outbreak of the war with Iran.
Last month, Spirit approached the White House for financial assistance, and President Donald Trump initially appeared receptive. But on Friday, reports surfaced that a wind-down was imminent after negotiations between the company, its bond holders and the White House appeared to break down.
On the website dedicated to its shutdown, the airline said passengers should not go to the airport and that all Spirit flights are cancelled, directing them to a page for refund status and next steps.
At its height of success in the mid-2010s, Spirit opened as many as 28 new routes in less than a year and the company was valued at as much as $6 billion. It attracted passengers with its "bare fare" offerings, where everything from drinks to overhead carry-on bags cost extra, while base airfare was kept to a minimum.
And while it only carried a small slice of the flying public, Spirit's profitability was, at one point, among the top three of major U.S. airlines.
Long the subject of takeover rumors in an industry known for them, Spirit attempted to sell itself to JetBlue in 2022 after it struggled to regain financial footing in the wake of the pandemic. Had that happened, it would have created the fifth-largest airline in the country.
But Biden-era officials at the Justice Department argued that the combination would violate federal antitrust regulations, and in 2024 a judge sided with them and struck down the merger agreement.
Within months, Spirit filed for bankruptcy protection for the first time to satisfy debt obligations — the first major U.S. airline to file for Chapter 11 since 2011.
A judge approved a reorganization plan in early 2025, only for the airline to file once again in August amid weakening demand among budget flyers and spiraling costs. Talks about a proposed merger with Frontier Airlines emerged in December, but ultimately led nowhere.
Spirit traces its origins to a Michigan-based trucking company founded in the 1960s, with air operations starting up in the 1980s. In 1999, the company moved its headquarters to the Fort Lauderdale area in Florida, where it has been located ever since. At the end of 2025, it employed approximately 17,000 personnel.
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Killed by Elizabeth Warren…
Warren supported the investigation of the JetBlue merger, which was then blocked based on anti-trust concerns. She is merely one senator who opposed the merger.
This bankruptcy is based on a long-term poor performance of Spirit as a business and the sharp, dramatic increase in the price of fuel was apparently the finishing blow. Trump, per the Iran war, is primarily responsible for the surge in air fuel prices.
Stop defending the perpetrator.
She is merely one senator who opposed the merger.
She led the charge, but the entire Biden administration is guilty. Stopping the merger made this bankruptcy inevitable, which was known at the time.
congrats on killing an airline
You exaggerate the impact of a D senator while totally ignoring the actions of Trump.
What drives you to defend this incompetent buffoon?
Right, because even though Spirit had come out of bankruptcy with projections of a recovery and then " those plans were derailed amid soaring jet fuel costs sparked by the outbreak of the war with Iran", that part should just be completely ignored because no good boot licking sycophant would dare to besmirch their dear Leaders record or name. "Long live leader Kim!, Er, I mean leader Trump!". /s
I really wish that was just satire and overexaggeration, but clearly it is not.
A judge blocked the merger, finding it violated anti-trust law. Elizabeth Warren’s feelings on the matter are irrelevant.
Deflecting away from Trump. Trump caused a spike in jet fuel prices, which precipitated the demise of Spirit, among many other adverse effects. Spirit was likely going to fail no matter what, but that does not change the fact that Trump moved up the timing of their demise with his illegal, incompetent war.
The point is that this illustrates the damage Trump has done. The weaker businesses fall first, but the damage (spiked higher fuel prices) affects everyone.
Not more facts and reason! Don't you get it by now? They're not looking for truth; they're looking for confirmation bias! They want desperately to believe the lies their dear Leader told them, they treat truth like incoming bird droppings. "Look out! Incoming! Clear the area!". And anyone of theirs that gets hit, like MTG, is now avoided like the plague. And that's because they desperately want to believe the lies their dear leader is selling them.
They just love the lie that they're the 'best people in the world' with the 'best religion' and the 'best God' and the 'best language' and the 'best culture' and the 'best skin color' and the 'best accent' and the 'best music' and the 'best hair' and the 'best holidays' and in the 'best States' where they're all living their 'best white conservative Christian lifestyles', "Praise Jesus Y'all!". So, when the guy blowing smoke up their asses for their support says "It wasn't me..." they just shrug their ignorant shoulders and automatically give him the benefit of the doubt with only one question for their dear leader.
"We're still all the best, right?"
"Of course you are, you're the best people and you have the best leader leading you, what a terrific amazing guy, the best really, the best anyone could ever have asked for, not even Jesus would get these kinds of crowds..."
"What was that about Jesus?"
"Oh nothing, I'm just such a big fan and all, though I'm sure he would also have been a big fan of mine, people have said...".
Also, it's not as if Trump was trying to save Spirit and Democrats somehow thwarted him. Still, somehow, it's all Biden's fault. Or Elizabeth Warren. Basically, any Democrat, even though Trump has been president for over a year.
That is the pathetic game at play. There is no defending Trump so it is always a game of deflection coupled with a load of exaggeration and outright lies.
What, exactly, is he supposed to do?
Yes, his DOJ sued to block the merger leading to Spirit's inevitable failure. .
His DOJ was afraid there would be less competition and the way to fix that was to put an airline out of business, when their only way out was to merge
The Trump administration had a chance to do something about it, but decided not to. I guess Trump was unable to make one of his legendary deals. I thought he was Da Man! No?
Do you not understand how the legal system works? Filing the suit is not what killed the merger. It took a judge to review the facts and apply the law to them. If the merger were legal, it would have gone through.
I know you support Trump and you don’t seem to care if he follows the law, but do you also expect every other administration to ignore the law, too?
The whole point of the court’s ruling was that a merger would make the discount airline disappear anyway.
What exactly, do you imagine the President could have done?
Lol. It was a judgment call, and obviously an incorrect one as events demonstrated. Bringing the suit was a judgment call and so was the judge's decision.
It's an opinion. Any number of judges would have found differently.
It’s a legal opinion, not just a gut feeling. I have explained it to you briefly, but if you have a different solution that no one else could think of in two administrations or in two of the companies involved, by all means: LET’S HEAR IT!!! Or if you have a different legal opinion, let’s hear that!
We would all LOVE to hear your plan for keeping Spirit Airline in business. We would also love to hear how the discount airline market would continue to exist after JetBlue bought Spirit.
Or maybe you can explain why we shouldn’t believe Spirit Airlines, which said publicly that the war in Iran was the actual nail in their coffin.
Just contribute something other than “it’s Biden’s fault because of muh feelings.”
Yes. Obvious things are obvious. In your studies of the law, have you not come across the concept that lawyers and judges disagree about how the law applies?
ut if you have a different solution
Yes. Letting the merger got through in 2024. You keep claiming Trump could have done something without every specifying what exactly Besides your "muh feelings" what could have Trump specifically have done to ensure Spirit's ongoing viability?
that no one else could think of
Pretty much everyone thought of it, and understood it was the best solution,
Or if you have a different legal opinion, let’s hear that!
The merger violate the Clayton Act. I thought that was such an obvious point that I did not need to explicitly spell it out.
something other than “it’s Biden’s fault because of muh feelings.
Where do you get this from? Do you just have programmed talking points you go with regardless?
Just so we’re clear, you are admitting that the merger would have violated the law, but you also wanted it to be allowed anyway. Is that correct?
Your expectation is that the DoJ should intentionally ignore the law? Or that a judge, being aware of the law and presented with the relevant facts, should disregard his legal duty and allow the merger to go forward? Am I misunderstanding you?
I heard Buttigieg was thrown in the mix, too
Gee, not Hillary or Kamala?
LOL!
Not this time
Yes. Of course.
The merger did not violate the Clayton Act. It's a typo.
So Biden started the war with Iran and drove up the price of gas?
Why does MAGA supporters have to make "it' about Biden? The DoJ had its job to do then as it does today. Albeit, with its customary right-wing slant (now). The court performed its duties and responsibilities relative to our ANTI-TRUST LAWS: (Therefore, MAGA supporter critique of the Biden administration for giving proper consideration to the 'whole' of law is correct, and so MAGA supporters' critique is meritless!
GPT - 5 mini:
Anti-trust judge ruling during jet blue and spirit airline case
### Key excerpts from Judge Young’s opinion (Jan. 16, 2024) — specific legal reasoning, factual findings, and injunctive remedy
Below are concise, focused extractions from the court's Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law (Case No. 23‑10511‑WGY), with page references to the published opinion.
1) Legal framework and conclusion
- Court applied Section 7 of the Clayton Act (15 U.S.C. § 18) and the standard for an injunction blocking a merger that "may be substantially to lessen competition, or tend to create a monopoly." (Opinion, Conclusions of Law; pp. 62–66, 108–109.)
- Holding: the proposed JetBlue acquisition of Spirit would violate Section 7 and is enjoined. (Order, pp. 108–109.)
2) Primary legal reasoning
- Market structure and concentration: the domestic airline industry is an oligopoly dominated by four major carriers; consolidation over two decades increased concentration, giving the Court reason to scrutinize further consolidation. (Findings of Fact, pp. 6–8; Conclusions, pp. 62–66.)
- Role of presumptions and prima facie case: the Government established a prima facie case that the merger would substantially lessen competition under standard merger-analysis tools (market definition, concentration metrics, direct evidence of anticompetitive effects). (Conclusions, pp. 73–81.)
- Direct evidence of anticompetitive effects: elimination of head‑to‑head competition between JetBlue and Spirit on many routes, removal of Spirit as a distinct low‑price option that disciplines fares, and likely higher prices/less choice for consumers on overlapping routes. (Findings re: overlap routes, seat reductions, price effects; pp. 41–51, 76–81.)
- Rejection of defendants’ rebuttal: court found defendants’ arguments about easy/quick entry, likely new entry sufficient to discipline prices, and pro‑competitive justifications (e.g., better competition with the Big Four) were insufficient to rebut the Government’s showing. The court carefully evaluated entry timelines, fleet/aircraft constraints, and evidence on whether other carriers could replace Spirit’s competitive role. (Rebuttal discussion, pp. 81–103.)
3) Key factual findings supporting liability
- Spirit’s competitive role: Spirit was found to be a unique and aggressive ultra‑low‑cost competitor whose presence exerted downward pressure on fares and offered a distinct unbundled price option for price‑sensitive travelers; its loss would harm those consumers. (Findings on Spirit, pp. 20–26; effects on prices, pp. 50–53.)
- Overlap and concentration on routes: the Court identified multiple categories of routes (Spirit‑only, Spirit‑entry, econometric, connect, mixed, nonstop overlap) where the merger would materially reduce competition and increase concentration. (Findings on Relevant Airports and Routes, pp. 26–47.)
- Industry constraints on replacing Spirit: although entry onto a route can be rapid in some circumstances, the Court found industry‑wide constraints (aircraft delivery delays, engine issues, FAA/ATC capacity, pilot shortages) made timely and sufficient entry unlikely to offset anticompetitive harms. (Findings on industry constraints and barriers, pp. 12–18, 83–91.)
- Debt and incentives: acquiring Spirit would increase JetBlue’s indebtedness and create incentives to shift away from low‑fare positioning, reducing competitive pressure. (Findings on increased debt and likely strategic effects, pp. 49–51, 97–103.)
4) Econometric and expert evidence
- The Court relied on a multi‑pronged evidentiary record including expert econometric analyses and testimony (Government and defense experts) and found the Government’s expert evidence persuasive in showing likely price increases and elimination of Spirit’s price discipline; the court weighed competing expert methodologies in the Conclusions (Experts discussion, pp. 53–61; econometric route analysis, pp. 44–47, 97–103).
5) Injunctive remedy and scope
- Remedy entered: a permanent injunction enjoining the Defendants (and persons acting in concert with them) from consummating the proposed merger as agreed on July 28, 2022. (Order, pp. 108–109.)
- Court declined to impose a broader prospective prohibition (e.g., barring any future combination between the airlines), noting such a blanket prospective restraint would improperly interfere with future market transactions and that the Government can evaluate any future deal on its merits. (Discussion rejecting broader injunction, pp. 107–109.)
Your meme expresses support for a violation of anti-trust laws (Clayton Act/Section 7 - credit: GPT-5 mini). Tell me this is not true, because MAGA supporters are advocates for "law and order." MAGA supporters can not seriously be complaining that Biden Administration handled this the wrong way, when a court found it proper and legal to disrupt the merging on anti-trust law grounds.
Exactly. Thank you for shutting down the lying propaganda. Eh? There must be an election coming up as MAGA supporters are opening up all the lies, innuendos, misinformation, and disinformation they can pour from whatever 'window of Heaven' they (think they) possess!
Democrats need to be ready. Take the House and do not neglect the Senate (because the judges come out of the Senate committee). Democrats must get off their 'duffs' and hit the ground running RIGHT NOW!
And by the way, Trump brands himself a "MASTER" Deal-maker. . . .and, he fails at ending the war between Russia and Ukraine. . . does anybody here remember the 'one' about Trump and Putin being 'tight' friends. . . yet, these friends (and Ukraine - a friend) can not end the war that is two years into the Trump Administration. Oh, Mister "I will end the Russian/Ukraine War on Day One" - has done his spell-casting (that is, got the votes he needed by lying about it) and MAGA supporters do not even REMEMBER "Big Papa" promising it!
Trump was going to deal make with Iran. . . 'a better deal than Obama and quicker too' - two months into it. . . Trump is not making a deal so far. Indeed, Trump suggested that a deal may not be possible. So much for "Big Papa" Trump and his deals.
Trump was going to make deals over tariffs (his leverage) and yet many more countries are leaving him at the table than are participants!
Now to the issue at hand: Trump was going to make a deal with Spirit airlines. . . and, Spirit is shut down 'today.' WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO THE DEAL? Where is the deal Trump 'promised'?!!!
Of course, we catch the "Biden OBSSESSED" complaining about a 'deal' that was never even suggested or hinted about during the Biden Administration!
These some conservatives are full of it. They really take Americans for rubes. (We are not. We see all their lies, half-truths, misinformation, disinformation, and affronts to our intelligence for what it is. Super 'blanked-up' Bullsh-t!
The mic is loose and rolling around on the flo' right now.
Wow. The only way you see out for them to do 'it' is to merge. . . and that's illegal. Frankly, it is good they learned they could not merge. . . why? Because at the end of the day (likely now) somebody would recognize the 'disposition' of the new company and sue their 'butts' out of existence. . . and not even the so-called, "Master DEALMAKER would have been able to stop that lawsuit! Oh, and that means they would end up right were they are. . .in need of government assistance ("No Deal!") or SHUTTERED - (It is).
Excuse you. . . 'honey' for bringing facts to the discussion! Make MAGA supporters eat 'em! Facts are filling. Facts are nutritious! Fact are facts!
Well, I'd bet Spirit and Jet Blue would have 'hearted' MAGA support in their 'hour' of need! I mean really they might have appreciated an 'expert' court SHOPPING in 2024!
Er' what 'bout Law and Order? MAGA supporters know the 'one' — Please! MAGA supporters, y'all so desperate to take, take, take and hurt, hurt, hurt. It's sad really. Just Malcontents like the world has never know malcontents to be! "One-Wayers all!" Just Sad.
Well, the EVIDENCE shows clearly (Spirit Airlines is shut down) "thunder lips" Trump could not 'save' or is that 'doctor' Spirit back to a measure of health. . . so the company abruptly pined away during the 'Operation.' And 'thunder lips' is off to ruin somebody else's attempt at working out a deal! NEXT!!!!!!
The ONE-WAY!
Yes! It's 'one way' or the highway with MAGA supporters. Nothing else will do. They do not even want to know that non-MAGAs have opinions that matter.
Anti-trust laws are anti-Capitalism!!!!!
so much for the myth that republicans are better for business and the economy ... /s
It's not like anyone with more than half a brain and more than a high school diploma believed that myth anyway.
bullseye ...
[ ✘ ] The Spirit merger was widely understood as its only chance to salvage its' business:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/analyst-spirit-airlines-could-business-165925062.htm[ ✘ ]
Spirit won't be the only casualty of high fuel pricing. Delta has cut growth projects estimating $2B in increased fuel pricing and ticket pricing across the industry is increasing rapidly.
Spirit Airlines is what is known as an Ultra Low Cost Carrier (ULCC). As all such airlines, it is extremely sensitive to vagaries in the industry because of its business model. Blaming this on Trump and fuel prices due to the Iraq war grossly oversimplifies why Spirit Airlines shut down. To be sure, it appears that fuel costs resulting from the Iraq war was the final straw that killed it but, the blow that led to Spirit's fatality was caused by State, Federal, competitor and consumer response to the Covid pandemic, from which it never recovered. More than likely, current fuel prices simply speeded up what was likely inevitable.
"Well, we wouldn't want to besmirch the dear Leaders name! How dare they "oversimplify" the facts to suggest leader Trump is not right in all things! They should be assigned to a work detail building more golden statues of the dear Leader! Long live leader Kim!, er, I mean leader Trump!". /s
Why not just admit that Trump's unnecessary war in Iran fucked the airlines and thus Americans trying to travel? Wouldn't it be easier to fix any oversimplifications by at least admitting that part first? Did his war of choice raise Americans costs or not?
So, your main complaint with what I said was that I wasn't sufficiently scathing of Trump to suit your preferences? It bothers you when someone presents facts that detract from the emotional impact the gross oversimplification is intended to generate?
Well, first, I don't think the war was unnecessary. A nuclear armed Iran would be a nightmare. North Korea is bad enough. A vicious theocracy having them would be even worse. I honestly don't know why the rest of the free world isn't piling on Iran along with us. Probably because it interferes with profit too much.
Second, things that should be done are often painful. I don't like higher prices either but deciding by that metric alone is selfish and short sighted.
Third, no, it would not be easier. It's just a matter of stating the facts. Nothing hard about that other than doing a little research and not looking at the issue emotionally.
[✘] They will just let Iran do the dirty work for them.
No, but pretending that starting an unnecessary war of choice, where thousands of Iranians have died including an entire school full of children as well as over a dozen US soldiers, was merely a "straw" breaking a US airline company's back was.
You presented your opinion which included a weak defense of Trump. While Spirit was by no means out of the woods, there is every indication that if we had a more stable economy and if Trump hadn't started a war causing the straight to shut down and oil prices spike, they could have survived the most recent bankruptcy restructuring. It's just Trump loyalists who are downplaying that because they are DESPERATE to defend their favorite convicted felon.
Ah, I see, you've bought the lie that Iran was just weeks or months away from nukes. No wonder. Every expert in the field will tell you that wasn't anywhere close to being true and this is of course a war of choice pushed by Isreal and Donald is nothing but a weak sniveling little cuck in the corner furiously smashing his tiny mushroom, but apparently we have to listen to the opinions of all those waiting for Trumps release in their upturned faces so they don't want us to distract them till he finishes.
Great example of why this is a war of choice. Why aren't we bombing North Korea out of existence? Oh, that's right, rocket man and conservatives dear Leader 'fell in love' a while back so we can ignore the war crimes being committed and let North Korea play around with the nukes they've developed.
Probably because they live out here in reality and don't just accept the Trump administrations bullshit version. Iran was NO WHERE CLOSE to a nuke, but Trump needed a distraction and Bibi and the rest of the Zionists were badgering him. And so, we get dragged into a stupid senseless war where one fucking moronic 'viscous theocracy' attacks another. The fucked-up Christo-fascists currently making decisions in our government are no better than the Muslims or Jews all desperately waging their wars of choice and revenge on each other. And Americans silence on this is deafening.
I'm curious, what flavor do you think the Kool-aid is that conservatives are drinking because it must be amazing to get so many to abandon reality for some fucked up Christo-fascist worldview. But regardless of its flavor, the rest of rational Americans aren't drinking it so stop trying to drag us into a war of choice by trying to convince everyone it's in their best interest to just ignore reality and accept the giant pustule covered Christian dick they're trying to stuff down our throats.
Oh, okay, so you're saying starting this FUCKING UNNECCESARY WAR was just the "easiest option". To what? Distract from the Epstein files? To distract from the fact that Trump hadn't decreased the cost of living and in fact INCREASED IT? To distract from the fact that his Gestapo were killing Americans in the streets? To distract from his failed domestic policies and pardoning of violent rightwing terrorists who attacked officers and our Capital on January 6th, 2021? Trump supporters are SO fucking deluded I don't know why I even bother to respond sometimes. I have to keep reminding myself that arguing with fools makes me one as well, so for that I apologize.
Most dem politicians have publicly agreed to that stance up until a couple months ago. I can't imagine what has changed.
According to Gemini:
Could the difference be they already have a nuke?
This is what I posted. What you have posted in response is why it's nearly impossible to have a rational discussion with you. What I stated was just fact. Your response was an emotional tirade that had nothing whatsoever to do with the facts I presented, which confirmed that you are indeed upset that I didn't make burning Trump in effigy my main point. I will never be on board with that sort of thinking. That is the sort of thing that leads to things like Mao's Red Guard during their Cultural Revolution. I don't know how much you know about that but just think of it as a slightly milder version of Pol Pot's killing fields. Just a bunch of mindless drones operating purely on ideology and emotion rather than logic, reason and anything resembling a moral compass. In fact, the whole purpose of it was to purge anyone who might oppose the mindlessness of such actions. I will never be a part of that. Sorry, but I'm not sorry about it.
I think you're on to something : )
Anybody who thinks that this war was necessary is waiting for Christ to return to start Armageddon. Fuck the rest of us who don't buy into the bullshit
Um... kay. So, aside from the fact that Christ doesn't return until the end of Armageddon and actually ends it, please explain rationally how believing Iran must be stopped from building the bomb, even by means of war, necessarily means any religious connection at all, let alone the Dominionist interpretation you're trying to force?
Not a fact. A religious belief some hold.
Also in the end, Harry Potter vanquishes Lord Voldermordt and saves Hogwarts...
That is the god's honest truth, in the book!
I just add "except for christo-fascists" to many of the 10 commandments to better refine them to my liking ...
Pr-Millienalists believe Christ returns to capture all the faithful before the trials and tribulations begin. That is what I was referring to.
If I felt like being rational I would have told Drak that. But I won't be rational until he starts exhibiting rational behavior
watching a story about a bankrupt airline transition to a sky fairy debate is pretty funny though ...
I don't even know how it got started. Maybe it was somebody suggesting that Iran does have a nuke and trmp had every right to prosecute an illegal war against him. And that poster has a religious background that likes death, war, and destruction
you don't find it peculiar that trump started this war to keep iran from getting a nuke, after being influenced by the leader of a country that has nukes and won't admit it or join any international nuclear regulatory organizations that other nuke countries belong to. the peace negotiations are being handled by another mideast country that has a nuke and knowingly sheltered terrorists that were wanted by us. funny, where were trump's NK nuke concerns in his last term before they had ICBM's?
I thought he had obliterated Iran's nuke capability last summer? You mean he lied?
And I do find it peculiar that Bibi leads trmp around by the nose and orders him to bomb Iran. I think that if Bibi ordered trmp to use a nuke on Iran he wouldn't hesitate.
Bibi can fight his own goddamned wars. And I wish he would
like trump, bibi is trying to stay out of jail too, no matter what it costs to keep it from happening ...
The ICC has arrest warrants out for him
tsk, tsk, tsk, autocrats are sooo misunderstood ...
Using current rightwing conservative Trump supporter logic in regard to justifying the Iran war (which they didn't want either but have to pretend they do to please their dear Leader) is the equivalent of a spouse shooting their ex in the head and then claim self-defense because some day in the future the spouse might have been able to get a weapon and one time they said they were going to kill their spouse, so, 'justified'. And of course in the case of Iran, we already went to their house 8 months ago and destroyed the weapons they were building, and they had absolutely ZERO way to attack either the US or Israel with nuclear weapons.
The US was basically the cops called to the ex's house by Bibi who was there out-front screaming "Shoot! Shoot her! She has a nuke! I swear on my mother's life she has a nuke! Shoot! Shoot that bitch! I always hated her! She burned my Idan Raichel and Barry Manilow albums right in front of me! Shoot her!!!!".
If you want people to believe there is justification for a war you need to convince them with evidence and rational argument, not just come up with endless excuses after the fact. "She was asking for it! Did you get a look at that hijab?". /s This is what we get when we have too many fucking useless dimwit enablers gobbling Trumps balls while he's out there gobbling Bibi's and at the same time giving Putin a reach around by increasing the feud with NATO and reducing US presence in Europe. And that's why we get to pay higher prices at the gas pump. Fucking morons.
I know.
Then you were referring to pre-tribulationists, not pre-millenialists. Pre-millenialism is the belief that Christ will rule upon this Earth for a thousand years before the final battle, which is not the one referred to as Armageddon.
Well, thanks for being honest about not approaching this rationally. As far as my exhibiting rational behavior, what would that look like to you? I began by pointing out that Trump was not what really killed Spirit Airlines. While I acknowledged that Trump is responsible for higher fuel prices, that just sped up the almost certain demise of the airline, not caused it.
Rather than a rational discussion about any of that, it was immediately deflected into complete emotional nonsense concerning subjects that had nothing to do with why Spirit Airlines collapsed. That isn't from anything I said. It's all you guys. I didn't bring religion into this, beyond pointing out that no sane person should be okay with a theocracy like Iran having the bomb. The religion angle is all you guys. It's like you are all desperate not to actually admit that Trump wasn't the primary, secondary or even tertiary reason the airline collapsed. He was just the final straw. It's like you guys are allergic to anything that challenges your preferred narrative. Doesn't that bother you? That you prefer narrative over truth?
Is Donald Trump mentally, intellectually, morally, ethically and psychologically fit to hold office?
I think he fails on all of those criteria.
When you have such a person leading the nation over a prolonged period of time the result can be nothing but failure, division, hostility and ultimately chaos, and that is where we are at now or will be shortly.
I could not care less about any of that. My logic is that the world would be insane to allow Iran to develop the bomb, given the nature of the beast. And it is undyeable that they are trying to develop the bomb. Considering what they do in the world, both outside their own country and to their own people inside it, this regime is just plain evil. They actually are what you pretend Christians are in this country.
Holding such a position says nothing one way or the other about whether Trump was either justified in starting this war the way he did or whether he's prosecuting it rationally. I totally believe that Iran should be attacked if they refused to abandon their efforts, but either we should have built a coalition or been much better prepared to go it alone than we appear to be. It seems to me that Trump though just blowing the crap out of their military would cure them of their particular brand of madness, but he was wrong. He took a gamble, in my opinion, and it didn't pay off. Now he's stuck between a rock and a hard place.
It would not change with a Democrat in office. Democrats and progressives want fundamentally different things than conservatives, and the more left the Democrats and progressives go, the worse it will be. Just look at Seattle, for example, and other places like it, such as New York.
In other words, everything you say about the right is what the right says about you. Your side can be nothing but failure, division, hostility and, ultimately, chaos. Thing is, your side has far more proof that this is so than the conservative side. Just look how blue cities are doing. They keep electing increasingly more radically left people to change things, which they do, but not for the better.
So whatever Trump is, you can't use him to hide what I see in the left.
On the day Trump was elected in 2016 he was a known pathological liar, crook, bigot, narcissist, and moron. Why did anyone think he should be president of the United States ? And he hasnt gotten better or more fit over the last ten years - he has obviously gotten worse. There has to be a reckoning for this country recklessly putting this completely unfit, totally corrupt person in power. History will not be mocked.
No one was doing that. The Iran deal that had previously been brokered was keeping them from a nuke but was abandoned because those who wanted to go to war basically claimed that was unacceptable because the deal allowed Iran to continue to exist and had a pathway to eventual enrichment that would allow for nuclear power plants. That deal was sabotaged and undermined by lying sacks of Christo-fascist shit desperate to start their holy war and drag the rest of us into it along with them.
I'm an American citizen and I don't want my fellow citizens or my country dragged into wars by delusional religious losers trying to force their religion on the rest of the world. While you say 'you don't care about any of that' rational patriotic Americans are loyal to the constitution instead of some warped fucked up interpretation of their translation of the bible which only serves to create division and fractures in American society. No need to go overseas to fight a violent theocracy, we've got plenty of self-absorbed religious bigots here at home.
for at least a decade, courtesy of dick cheney and a subsidiary of halliburton ...
I attended a conference in Orlando in late October. Traffic was ridiculous and the driver offered a slightly longer more scenic route in the opposite direction circling the Orlando Airport
where he pointed out various military units participating in a NORAD exercise.
The pertinent item however was a dozen or so Spirit planes sans engines parked at a hangar on the airport. Spirit, at some point in dire need of new engines leased the engines and when they fell behind on payments were promptly seized every time they landed in Miami or Orlando.
The Lessor promptly removed the engines and the planes are just stuck there.
That takes time and coordination, so Spirit has been dead on paper for quite some time.
A merger would have been a waste.
I tend to agree, not being an expert, but I talked with ChatGPT extensively about it and it didn't look hopeful. Filing for bankruptcy just a few months apart is probably not a good sign.
Jet Blue apparently had a different opinion. I wouldn't know, myself. whether or not it would have been a waste.
it was never about the assets or employees, it's about their routes ...
I flew from Philly to Dallas and back dozens of times, mostly asleep.
Shipped my luggage via UPS.
I don't miss the no frills BS.
way back when I liked jet blue, because they did red-eye flights and they had more comfortable seats and satellite TV on the headrest in front of you. it was either prior to a spirit or value jet flight from miami years ago where I was offered an upgrade to 1st class for basically pennies and I took it. I had mentally prepped myself with cannabis for the traditional pre-flight jitters of the mrs who believed every flight over water was destined to go down, so I was in a very comical mood. during the gate announcement for the boarding process, which naturally was left to the gate agent that was only semi-bilingual.
unfortunately a bit of american male whiteness kicked in during some of the hilariously butchered english I was hearing while waiting at the front of the boarding line. there's something about the sound of somebody clearing their throat whenever coming across a word beginning with a "w" or rolling the letter "r" that cracks me up, or really any accent that sounds like the owner is expending 3x the effort to simply say anything in plain generic english, but I digress.
instead of 1st class priority boarding I was pulled aside by TSA to again be wanded and frisked by security. fortunately before the mrs could begin to panic over crashing and drowning in the gulf alone, I told her to find our seats and I would join her in a few minutes. I think I was the last to board, only to discover another traveler had my window seat next to the mrs and he was apparently interested in the mrs to help him unpack his luggage after landing. by now, my mood enhancer had worn off, and I didn't need to utter a word to regain my seat, when according to the mrs, a move or die expression was clearly evident on my face.
come to think of it, I haven't had an uneventful flight in the last 2 decades, with american airlines being the biggest culprit. anymore, if I can get there in under 10 hours by driving, that's my preferred method of travel, plus I get to bring my personal demagatizer along with me.
I've also found that TSA really doesn't appreciate any commentary or sound effects during their pat-downs around "sensitive areas". one of my sons admitted to me last year that there was always a question of whether I would be on the same flight as the family whenever we flew somewhere on vacation as soon as we hit the security checkpoint at the airports. I now take full credit for my 3 children becoming upstanding and productive americans because of all the examples I set for them.
Good to know
Trump is blamed for the high fuel prices, which precipitated Spirit's demise. That is not the same as blaming Trump alone for putting Spirit out of business. It is, however, the same as illustrating with a timely, significant example how a spike in fuel prices due solely to Trump adversely impacts the economy.
The trend here is that no matter what Trump does, some will defend him. It is getting to the point of absurdity. How far past the line must Trump go before people stop deflecting, stop making excuses and instead criticize wrongdoing by this buffoon?
Trump started an illegal war. Whatever he thought he would accomplish did not happen. We are now in a situation where we have lost more credibility/trust as a nation, spent tens of billions of dollars, lost countless civilian lives, and caused clear damage to the global economy. What does it take to stop trying to find some way to defend this abysmal human being?
3 alleged attempts on his life so far seems like a fair indicator of his national popularity ...
I expected that poor poll numbers would embolden Congress to grow a spine and do their constitutional duty as a co-equal branch. It is amazing that even with his ever-growing unpopularity that they still do not reign him in.
Sick times.
the writing is on the wall for the maga congress, and most realize it. now it's all about lining their pockets going down the exit ramp until they're finally shown the door, and then by creating legislative obstructions between election day and their last day in government ...
Maybe when his favorability ratings get into the 20s, but maybe not. The Republicans have fallen into a bottomless pit of depravity.
for them, owning the libs trumps any measure of decency, common sense, or patriotism ...
Trump is still popular with Republicans - 85% to 86% approval per WAPO - so no, non-contested Republican Congress critters are not going to do anything.
The thing is, it is not just those who consider themselves strong Republicans who vote.
I would expect current R politicians to realize that Trump is not doing them any favors:
Yes... still strongish with Republicans, but in the shitter with everyone else -
I've been part of some of the Emerson polls, though not in the last month.
Meh...you might have something when democrats get to about 18....er....wait....that already happened.
12/17/25 - Voters Give Democrats In Congress A Record Low Job Approval But Still Might Vote For Them In 2026, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; Majority Think Trump's Use Of Presidential Power Goes Too Far | Quinnipiac University Poll
Yet again deflection. The point is that Trump is (appropriately) very unpopular right now. The unpopularity of the Ds (and, in reality, the Rs) is just a deflection.
Refusing to acknowledge the continued wrongdoing and failures of Trump is irrational, irresponsible, and unpatriotic.
The left is starting to go so far left so fast it almost looks like they want to lose the midterms.
Are there any facts underlying that claim?
Of course not, but that's all rightwing media has right now so they're pushing that talking point fabrication like it's the star of an upcoming movie their own network produced.
None, nothing.
Only if you are willing to look at it with an unbiased eye.
Good luck with that one.
Offer something of value. Are there any facts underlying your claim?
Exactly. We all know that's something he can't answer.
So here is what I see, and I suspect most see.
The notion that it is 'the left' that seems to be trying to lose the midterms flips reality 180°.
Quite amazing to see that some people cannot recognize that Trump continues to make one bone-headed move after another. From gratuitously tearing down the East Wing, placing his name as top billing on the Kennedy Center, and all other arrogant, ego-centric moves to his major abuses of office such as his vindictive lawfare, attempts to remove jus soli, extortion of private enterprise, firing of inspectors general, DoJ attorneys who worked on his indictments, refusal to release the full Epstein files per law, etc. to his damaging moves such as mass firings of government employees, shutting down major operations such as USAid, his "BBB", the ill-conceived and incompetent on and off again tariff nonsense, his destruction of US good will by his ridiculous, arrogant rhetoric and threats, ...., and most recently his truly idiotic war with Iran.
All the shit coming from Trump and rubber-stamped by the GoPTRUMP and some people actually believe that it is 'the left' that is predominantly seen as the problem today and will be hurt in midterms. That is a staggering display of blind partisanship.
There is no doubt in my mind that you are aware of names like Piker, Abdul al-Sayed, and Mamdani who are coming from the fridge to be more main stream and being embraced by many of the dems. There are more. They are even farther left than Bernie, Warren and AOC.
The fact you ignore them only shows a partisan view.
You can lead a progressive to the answer but you can't make them see it.
Done
Another stupid claim. You list some people, and out of the blue claim that I ignore them. And imply that they are of great significance compared to Trump. No support, just another bullshit claim.
In contrast, we have the 800lb Gorilla Trump and his continual damaging acts and rhetoric.
Now explain to us all how fringe elements on 'the left' are more influential on midterm voters than the PotUS who is doing the polar opposite of his major campaign promises and is directly and adversely impacting the healthcare and financial aspects of ordinary voters.
All the shit coming from Trump and rubber-stamped by the GoPTRUMP and some people actually believe that it is 'the left' that is predominantly seen as the problem today and will be hurt in midterms. That is a staggering display of blind partisanship.
So calling a comment, stupid and bulshit and pivoting to trump is all you have.
Almost forgot. You and others like you are so consumed with Trump, you are totally ignoring what is going on in the left. The people I mentioned are becoming the voice of the left.
You ignored the content of my post. You ignore all the wrongdoing of Trump.
Always the same blind partisanship. Ignore what Trump does and try to refocus on 'the left'.
What makes you think that people cannot see this obvious deflection from you?
Seriously, what do you think you are accomplishing? It is a pathetic tactic.
You refuse to recognize that Trump continues to make one bone-headed move after another. From gratuitously tearing down the East Wing, placing his name as top billing on the Kennedy Center, and all other arrogant, ego-centric moves to his major abuses of office such as his vindictive lawfare, attempts to remove jus soli, extortion of private enterprise, firing of inspectors general, firing of DoJ attorneys who worked on his indictments, refusal to release the full Epstein files per law, etc. to his damaging moves such as mass firings of government employees, shutting down major operations such as USAid, his "BBB", the ill-conceived and incompetent on and off again tariff nonsense, his destruction of US good will by his ridiculous, arrogant rhetoric and threats, ...., and most recently his truly idiotic war with Iran.
The midterms are going to be mostly about Trump (in particular, the negative effects Trump has on everyday voters) and the rubber-stamping by the GoPTRUMP.
My original comment was about how far left the left is going. You are the one deflecting towards trump.
You think people don't see you trying to make everything about trump?
Sorry, the quote in 5.3.16 was something that I had highlighted and not part of what I was responding to.
Getting any of them to see anything through an unbiased POV is damn near impossible.
he'll answer it. Your acceptance of that answer is generally the problem. Just because you don't like an answer doesn't mean that they are wrong in any way.
Rational minds recognize that Trump is at the top of the news almost daily.
It is not analysts/posters making everything about Trump; it is Trump and his supporters. We are reacting to what is taking place.
You, as a clear Trump supporter, are doing everything you can to deflect from what the buffoon is doing. No matter how much damage this incompetent psychopath inflicts, you deflect to 'the left'.
My original comment was about how far left the left is going. You are the one deflecting towards trump.
Correct. You deflect to the left. Consistently.
The comment I responded to was also about the left. Nice try though
Done what? Made a fool out of yourself? You still haven't provided any actual evidence to support your claim that the left is going "so far left so fast". All you've done is spout the usual rightwing talking points and threw out the same tired names that the right has been screaming about for years. While I accept that many Democrats seem prone to shooting themselves in the foot when political opportunities present themselves, that's only an issue because Democrats actually care what their politicians say and do and hold them accountable.
Republicans on the other hand, have abandoned any and all standards for their elected leaders, or at best lowered them so far as to worship a convicted felon and accused pedophile who lies more than he tells the truth. Trump would metaphorically have no feet left he shoots himself in the foot so often. To try and pretend as if Democrats have lost their way or are "too far left" because of a handful of outliers while the right are desperately trying to defend the leader of their party who started another unnecessary overseas war that is costing taxpayers billions a day and raising our gas prices through the roof is the height of hypocrisy and all thanks to the gullible morons who voted for that lying sack of shit. But I'm sure none of this will sink in to the brain-dead Trump supporters who are likely already desperately trying to think of a way to deflect and distract from the massive timber in their dear Leader's eye by pointing out the speck of dust in some random fringe Democrats eye.
Spot on.
Lol. It's crazy that a subsections of progressives just routinely employ the ostrich defense and ignore the world around them. Not being aware of how far the left has moved over the last decade or so is basically advertising one's ignorance with a flashing light. I'll never understand why so many on the left think claiming total ignorance and denying reality helps their cause.
. The left wing sphere (at least the part that simply doesn't reflexively parrot the talking points they are fed) is full of think pieces about what the rise of woke politics has done to the left wing coalition.
Ignoring Trump's blatant, continual wrongdoing and pretending it is 'the left' that is ignoring reality is both sad and funny. Mostly sad.
If right wingers were not obsessed about transgender 80% of their complaints about the left would magically disappear.
Trump is always the fallback to any valid criticism of the left
Trump is the biggest problem we face today.
[deleted]
Not even close.
Exactly what a Trump supporter would claim — no matter what Trump does, it is ‘the left’ that is the problem.
Buy a vowel.
Not just "fallback" - total intent.
Nothing else matters because ......Trump
How predictable
That was proven by the charges against the SPLC. Every year these frauds would put out reports that the right wing was the biggest threat in America, and of course, the media and the left (I repeat myself) lemmingly nodded their heads.
What their confirmation biases showed was the left wing was not a threat, but when you take away all of the staged and SPLC paid for events, you will probably find that the vast majority of violence in America is, in fact, left wing.
Of course, the go to left wing talking point is but but but J6 and Charlottesville, which we found was a staged event bought and paid for by the SPLC.
The SPLC is a racist fraudulent violence driven criminal entity.
The only argument the left has. And it is a failed one.
It's trump. And nothing else matters.
Metallica: Nothing Else Matters (Official Music Video) - YouTube
Trump, your bogeyman, has nothing to do with the left shifting positions on any number of issues. Try discussing the democratic party without only talking about him.
He is not my bogeyman, he is the current PotUS and is taking actions that continue to harm our nation (and the world economy). Trump and his minions are the single biggest and most potentially damaging force we must deal with today.
Forget about bullshit partisan crap and deal with the problem at hand.
Your posts are almost always focused on 'the left', 'the Ds', 'progressives', etc. as the main problem we face. Any issue with Trump, and you try to deflect and defend.
Blind partisanship.
Again you offer no argument; just whining that people criticize (justifiably) the disaster of the Trump administration.
As you try to make a post about the Democrat party about Trump.... The left is literally the topic. A wild, reality denying claim that the left isn't moving left.
Blind partisanship.
Indeed.
You are the only one arguing and it is with yourself with a topic that has nothing to do with my comment.
Please continue
So you again invent an argument for me that I have not made and declare blind partisanship.
Do something better than blatant dishonesty.
Bottom line, 'the left' is not the current problem. Trump and his corrupt, inept administration is the problem.
Buy a vowel.
The trend here is that no matter what Trump does, some will defend him. It is getting to the point of absurdity. How far past the line must Trump go before people stop deflecting, stop making excuses and instead criticize wrongdoing by this buffoon?
Trump started an illegal war. Whatever he thought he would accomplish did not happen. We are now in a situation where we have lost more credibility/trust as a nation, spent tens of billions of dollars, lost countless civilian lives, and caused clear damage to the global economy. What does it take to stop trying to find some way to defend this abysmal human being?
[deleted][✘]
So you agree with me then. Great. I'm glad we agree that its idiotic and dishonest to pretend the left hasn't moved far to the left. Why you had to drag Trump into a discussion about the political movement of Democrats when you agree with my premise is something only you can answer.
rump and his corrupt, inept administration is the problem.
Yet again, you have to make it about Trump. Is there anything the Democrats could do (outside of not attacking Trump for a minute) that would cause you to criticize them?
You might have that impression because those on the right apparently believe in a reality the left doesn't recognize. It's likely a difference of perspective as I'm sure the world looks very different to those staring out at it from deep within their dear leader's ass. The right has clearly colonized Trumps colon and thus their reality does not match the reality rational patriotic Americans are experiencing.
For example, they believed Trump when he said he'd bring down high prices on day one. They believed Trump when he says he'd also end the Ukraine war on day one. They believed Trump when he said he'd end our engagement in foreign wars. And they still sit here with a straight face and claim that that is our reality, that Trump is tried and true in all things and they continue to stand by him all while denying the reality happening around them, the Americans being shot in the streets, the rising food prices, the rising gas prices, inflation that is no better than it was under the Biden administration, horrible new job numbers, an unnecessary war that supposedly would end in "two to three weeks" according to Trump of which Trump now says will go on "as long as necessary". And what are those on the right doing? Spending their time denying reality and whining about Biden and Obama and anything else they can whine about to distract from what they all know deep down is a fucking disaster.
But I get it, they have to keep a straight face like a poker player and tell us all how great Trump is because they have no other choice, they can't break free from the 'sunk cost fallacy' feelings driven by loss aversion that keep them wasting their time and money on a criminal loser pedophile and looking like fucking fools. If those on the right didn't continue to deny reality, they would have to accept the fact that they're just gullible losers who got scammed and used by a really stupid con man.
The reality is that in general, being "woke" aka aware of injustice, makes us better more patriotic Americans who refuse to deny the truth about American history and how the present was shaped by the legacy of those sometimes-difficult truths. Have there been some idiots who take that too far and say stupid shit thinking they're helping the cause? Of course there are, as there will always be on both sides. But the core of the "left" has always been fighting injustice when they become aware of it. Have they always fought it the right way? No. Have they done more harm than good at times? Perhaps. But that's still a far better position to be in than to be the tired archaic religious conservative dipshit bigots whining about all the "woke" folk who exposed them.
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Control the levers of power (again). That all to do it. And, since MAGA supporters are criticizing democrats when republicans are fully in control of national political power. . . it would be odd and inconsistent to hold expectation that republicans will criticize democrats when they are in control of our national political power.
Gas is up 30 cents this morning....
Is this all you have left ... cheap stunts?
Of course. The Ds, however, are NOT the main problem we face. The main problem, by far, is Trump and his corrupt, inept administration.
Supported by people like you who defend them no matter what.
you mean the brown one trump is sitting on ...
No, but your interest in it is noted
one size fits all, the original maga hat ...
It is really funny how conservatives act so concerned over what they see as "leftist" bias and claim they want an "unbiased eye" or objectivity, and yet when it comes to the media they consume and promote, it could not be more rightwing partisan, and that is just fine with them. Politician leans a tiny bit left? Hang him for being partisan! Politician is so far right they gargle Trumps ball sweat daily? Great politician who should be congratulated for their loyalty, er, I mean "objectivity"... 'wink'.
And the fact that they don't see it, that they just ignore this huge blind spot that proves them MASSIVE hypocrites, would be hilarious and we could just laugh at them all day long, if it weren't for all the real-world effects their intentional blindness is causing to our nation. Let's face it, rightwing conservatives don't want objectivity, they want rightwing partisans in every level of government because they're fucking delusional bigots determined to overthrow America and install their own fucked up white conservative Christian nation they've always dreamed up and they will lie, cheat and steal to get it so obviously, being massive smug hypocrites is nothing to them, it doesn't even make the Christo-fascists blink.
It is our duty and responsibility to tell the truth (on NT) when others 'drop-kick' it. Continue this important work and know that we are in it together!