Memes, Moderation and Madness!
I could say that I have followed and contributed to a variety of articles over the past few days fit into this category out of interest and a desire to learn how to make News Talkers a better site for all of us.
I could say that, but it would be a lie. Just as we are drawn to watch a traffic accident, mesmerized by television coverage of a disaster or hopelessly enthralled by the mindless ranting of politicians and comedians (hard to tell the difference sometimes), I was drawn to these articles like a moth to a flame, not because I thought they offered any real value or opportunities to learn, but rather because I couldn't wait for the next stupid comment, or the next vicious attackingcomment or the next disgusting graphic.
Is the cacophony of inarticulate nonsense, hate speech and verbal bullying really what we want our site to reflect? I say our site because a very wise lady has told me that the site, its rules and its ultimate success or failure is in the hands of the members.
We have a dedicated group of moderators with a largely thankless job of trying to maintain order in the face of continual and escalating chaos and I am reminded of a common metaphor concerning the difficulty of herding cats and of late an extremely vicious and angry group of cats. When a moderator steps in to gain control of a situation by taking to task someone with whom we disagree, they are seen as a champion of the debate process, but when we ourselves or someone with whom we agree is called on the carpet, they dictatorial and attempting to control us and our free expression of ideas. If you are unable to grasp the difficult position in which the moderators find themselves, I am afraid that I cannot explain it much better.
If time and effort was expended to talk to the issue, with the same vigor and passion, as many members expend in talking to and about those with whom they disagree, the quality of debate on News Talkers would be elevate exponentially. Is anyone so nave as to think that when they choose to denigrate or debase another member concerning their views, background or intelligence that the person being addressed gives damn. Of course not, but spouting hate, labels and names puts a commenter (at least in their own mind) center stage in the world of News Talkers debate with everyone listening (or so they think) it allows them to spread their feathers like a peacock and strut their stuff.
I know that a lot of folks have virtually left the forum and spend the majority of their time on News Talkers in the various groups, in order to escape the insanity, but we should not be forced to abandon the front page in order to find civility and rationality in debate. I enjoy the openness of the forum, where everyone can join in, sharing opinions, facts and feedback in a learning environment, but of late that learning environment has become anything but and more resembles a drunken bar fight than a debate among adults.
I used to enjoy penning original articles on subjects that interested me and were in my opinion important on the local, state and national stage but unless one chooses a subject that generates polarized opposite sides, provides an opportunity to blame rather than discuss and facilitates an volcano-like spewing of hate and ideological labeling there is little interest to be found in discussing the issues because it is more fun and more entertaining to discuss and debase those that disagree with your position than to discuss the issue. So I write very few original articles and sadly follow the herd mentality and join into the verbal free-for-alls that have replaced meaningful debate on News Talkers. This is not a situation that I am particularly proud of and perhaps a hiatus from News Talkers is in order for me to allow a reclaiming of perspective and the reason I decided to participate on News Talkers after leaving NewsVine for many of the same reasons.
I do not intend or expect to change the minds, opinions or modus operandi of anyone with this article, just wanted to share some thoughts with my friends and the opposition since on a site devoted to civil discourse and debate there should be no enemies.
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I wasn't sure what category to place this article under, but after thinking about the title a little placing it in the category of mental health seemed appropriate.
I full accept and admit that I have been part of the problem that I describe at times and am not looking to convert anyone to a path of civil debate.
John
Appreciate your perspective and your explanation of your commenting style
BadFish
I set my goals low here on NT of late and I am never disappointed.
Thanks for sharing your perspective
BadFish and John
Today I get perspective and advice
Thanks
The big problem with that is it would need to be a group that all members belong to . Is there such a group ? I doubt it .
Members are free to ignore this article if they feel strongly that positioning in the category I did was a serious breach of News Talkers etiquette and custom
Awww... don't say that Robert!
It has no place in HD. Anyway, a member may post where they like.
It isn't Robert, and many members have done it before you.
Perrie
You are right I still have high expectations and hopes for NT
The low expectations are for some of the commentary
JR (and Bf)
With all due respect, I have to disagree with you both on this one. The issue RiO is raising is important and deserves to be dragged out into the light of open discussion regardless of how many of us might be averse to airing the dirty laundry in public. This more wide-ranging than just another 'Meta' article... and additionally, moving it to HD would guarantee that it degenerates into exactly the sort of verbal diarrhea that brought RiO to pen this op-ed piece...
I've commented to Perrie on what I perceive as an increasing level of verbal aggression, personal cliques and latent (and IMO undeserved) hostility towards the mods. While RiO didn't mention it, I think it's worth noting that the steadily escalating level of hostility, aggression and verbal/emotional abuse being vented on NV is what drove many folks away from that site. Is the same thing destined to occur on NT? (I'd grant that the actions/reactions of NV mods contributed to the shit-storm that enveloped that site, but my feeling is that's NOT the case here...)
JR, in one of the toxic threads that inspired RiO to post this one, you commentedto PH "you coddle people & this is the result". I'd suggest that Perrie's determination NOT to replicate the overbearing Mod style of NV is not exactly 'coddling', though the 'benign neglect' approach to moderation on NT does allow a lot of leeway for rudicle asshats to flourish... Perrie and the other mods go to some lengths to allow NT membership to assign the appropriate level of moderation, by (mostly) waiting for membership to voice complaints and ask a mod to step in. IMO, at least part of the real problem is that members posting articles don'ttake the time or effort to ride herd on their own threads, and for whatever reason, members don't often enough seek intervention when dipshit aggressive rhetoric gets spewed.
What we've all been presented with over the past weekend is multiple examples of personality conflict, mod-bashing and egregious flouting of the CoC, backed up with what amounts to internet bullying masquerading as 'freedom of speech'. There are a few members on NT whose main 'contribution' amounts to the kind of verbal dominance displays you'd expect to see in the Chimp House at your local zoo. Shrieking and shit-slinging by angry apes has a limited amount of comedy value, but it wears off quick and that sort of behavior is probably not Perrie had in mind as the result of all the effort she & the other mods have put into this site...
RiO's point is well-taken: is NT to be dominated by a small cadre of keyboard commandoes, or willmembers who believe in civil dialogue and respectful interaction assert themselves to maintain this board?
IMO, these are not questions that should be debated in a closet...
ROFLMAO!!!
As Marshall McLuhan said : 'The meme-dium is the message'...
Tnx MiG...
swamijim
I wish I had said it as well
Thanks for the feedback, perspective and support
Only we the members can make NT a better place in my opinion
Mike
Thanks for the feedback and the support
In my view, NT will be as great or as bad as the members decide to accept