Star Trek: Picard - Episode 2 "Maps And Legends" Recap - Plus Series Premiere, Free Full Episode

  
Via:  Dig  •  8 months ago  •  45 comments


Star Trek: Picard - Episode 2 "Maps And Legends" Recap - Plus Series Premiere, Free Full Episode
 

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Caution: Spoilers Ahead

Note: The less obvious (and missing on some) Romulan foreheads are discussed near the end of this one.


Free Series Premiere - Full Episode


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Dig
1  seeder  Dig    8 months ago

A few personal thoughts on episode 2:

  • The F-bomb was dropped twice and it seemed completely out of place to me. I didn't care for it at all. Trek should be classier, IMO.
  • If synthetics have been banned in the Federation, then what about holograms like the Doctor? Has he been apprehended and deactivated or something?
  • Why would a Borg cube have so many rectangular hangar bay doors just the right size for what looked like winged Romulan-type ships? For that matter, since when do Borg cubes have a big internal hangar bay at all?
  • I'm loving the new Starfleet uniforms. They look like the DS9 and VOY era uniforms but with a full collar, which is where the rank insignia should still be, as far as I'm concerned. I'm never going to get used to having to look at a person's chest for it, even in real life (the way the U.S. military seems to be wearing it now).
  • Why would a special Romulan agency, even more secretive than the Tal Shiar, exist solely to destroy synthetic life forms? That plot point seems awfully weak to me so far.
  • And finally... IS PICARD DYING? That old parietal lobe problem from when he was assimilated by the Borg (or rather, de-assimilated)? Holy crap!
 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Dig @1    8 months ago

Good Morning Dig,

A few thoughts on your commentary.

  • I didn't notice the "F bomb" being dropped. Not a big fan of cursing, but it does happen sometimes in proper places. Maybe they were trying to be more like real life? Anyway, we looked it up and you are right, but it was first dropped in "Discovery". I agree with you. It doesn't seem consistent with Starfleet, but maybe that is to show how far they have strayed from and that is what Picard is upset about. He does keep saying that when he talks about what happened to the Romulans. 
  • Synthetics are basically alive. Holograms "appear" alive but they can be turned off with just a voice command. They are basically a functional illusion. 
  • The Borg did have landing bays, but I don't remember one that was that big. You have a good point. 
  • I love the new uniforms, too.
  • I don't think that the Romulan secretive agency just to get rid of synthetics, but that was one of their jobs. I think that the Romulans must have watched "Frankenstein", "Blade Runner", "Terminator" and Alien: Covenant. There are a lot of reasons to fear AI. But Picard did have a conversation about why the Romulans don't like and that is part of the mystery to be revealed.  
  • Yes, I think Picard is dying and I think it was from his assimilation. And yes big HOLY CRAP to that. But since the Romulans are restoring humans from the abandoned Borg ship, they might be a cure around the corner. 
 
 
 
Dig
1.1.1  seeder  Dig  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1    8 months ago
Synthetics are basically alive. Holograms "appear" alive but they can be turned off with just a voice command. They are basically a functional illusion.

Ah, but not the Doctor, remember? He became a free and sentient being. After a few program tweaks and the addition of the mobile emitter he became an autonomous artificial life form, right?

The Borg did have landing bays, but I don't remember one that was that big.

You know, now that I've thought more about it, I remember the Voyager episode 'Collective', in which those Borg children capture the Delta Flyer and bring it inside the cube. Harry looks outside after he comes to and they show a huge docking space around the ship, so I guess there is some precedent for that after all.

Picard did have a conversation about why the Romulans don't like and that is part of the mystery to be revealed. 

Hmm. I'll have to rewatch the episode and keep an eye out for that.

But since the Romulans are restoring humans from the abandoned Borg ship, they might be a cure around the corner.

Let's hope so. I do not want a series finale in a few years that ends the show with his death. He's too damn young (in Star Trek terms, at least).

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.2  Tacos!  replied to  Dig @1    8 months ago
Why would a Borg cube have so many rectangular hangar bay doors just the right size for what looked like winged Romulan-type ships?

I figured the Romulans put those in just to make things easier.

Why would a special Romulan agency, even more secretive than the Tal Shiar, exist solely to destroy synthetic life forms?

It may not be its sole reason for existing, but it may be their main focus now. It could be that Romulan science explored the idea of artificial life forms centuries ago and had some problem not unlike the Mars incident that made them hate them forever.

And finally... IS PICARD DYING? That old parietal lobe problem from when he was assimilated by the Borg (or rather, de-assimilated)? Holy crap!

It could also be the early stages of Irumodic Syndrome, which we found out he is sort of fated to get in "All Good Things."

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.2.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Tacos! @1.2    8 months ago
It could also be the early stages of Irumodic Syndrome, which we found out he is sort of fated to get in "All Good Things."

Good call! I totally forgot about that!

 
 
 
Freefaller
1.2.2  Freefaller  replied to  Tacos! @1.2    8 months ago
I figured the Romulans put those in just to make things easier.

Good thought,  I was actually guessing the Romulans designed their shuttles to fit the existing bays

 
 
 
Dig
1.2.3  seeder  Dig  replied to  Tacos! @1.2    8 months ago
I figured the Romulans put those in just to make things easier.

Yeah, they may well have.

It may not be its sole reason for existing, but it may be their main focus now. It could be that Romulan science explored the idea of artificial life forms centuries ago and had some problem not unlike the Mars incident that made them hate them forever.

I have a feeling the Zhat Vash (that new Romulan agency) were actually behind the Mars incident. They probably just hacked the synths. But doing so apparently destroyed the facility and the fleet that was being built to rescue the Romulans, so that might not be right. Then again, they could be freaking nut jobs.

I just now found the Memory Alpha page for them, which says this:

The story of the "Zhat Vash" was sometimes told to frighten Tal Shiar recruits, with its alleged motives known to very few. Tal Shiar operative  Laris  once heard from  Zhaban 's mother, also a Tal Shiar operative, that the organization was supposedly motivated by hate and fear and pure unassuageable loathing for  artificial intelligence , including  androids  and other forms of  synthetic  life, which they attempted to seek out and destroy. ( PIC : " Maps and Legends ")

Hmm. I also just noticed that the abbreviation for Star Trek: Picard is going to be PIC. I was wondering about that. I was half expecting PCD, though.

It could also be the early stages of Irumodic Syndrome, which we found out he is sort of fated to get in "All Good Things."

Good call, indeed. I'd forgotten about that, too.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
1.2.4  sandy-2021492  replied to  Dig @1.2.3    8 months ago
But doing so apparently destroyed the facility and the fleet that was being built to rescue the Romulans, so that might not be right.

Maybe they're trying to start another war, and don't mind sacrificing some of their own.  They could be pretty ruthless.

 
 
 
Dig
1.2.5  seeder  Dig  replied to  sandy-2021492 @1.2.4    8 months ago

But to destroy the means of rescuing millions of their own people on Romulus? Zealotry can make people do irrational, things, but that would be downright treasonous. I suppose it could still be the case, though.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
1.2.6  sandy-2021492  replied to  Dig @1.2.5    8 months ago

If they could still end up blaming the Federation for falling through on its promises of rescue, I could see it.  And it seems that the Federation and Starfleet were made out to be responsible, even in the eyes of Picard.  If they already had a standing goal of destroying synthetic life, and still wanted war with the Federation, this would kill two birds with one stone.

 
 
 
Dig
1.2.7  seeder  Dig  replied to  sandy-2021492 @1.2.6    8 months ago

Yeah, it probably will turn out to be them. The show does seem to be setting us up for that. I doubt they're looking for war with the Federation, though. The surviving Romulans can't be in much of a position of strength.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
1.2.8  sandy-2021492  replied to  Dig @1.2.7    8 months ago
The surviving Romulans can't be in much of a position of strength.

Unless they've allied with someone who is.

 
 
 
Dig
1.2.9  seeder  Dig  replied to  sandy-2021492 @1.2.8    8 months ago

Hmm. Like the Dominion, maybe? They probably wouldn't mind getting some revenge on the Federation. I imagine the Bajoran wormhole is still there and connected to the Gamma Quadrant. I haven't even been thinking about the Dominion. They're still out there, just like the Borg are. 

I might just freak out if the Zhat Vash are secretly allied with the Dominion and are trying to destroy the Federation from within. That could be a very interesting storyline.

Who did you have in mind?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
1.2.10  sandy-2021492  replied to  Dig @1.2.9    8 months ago

The Dominion, or perhaps the Breen.  I haven't finished watching DS9, so I'm not sure which was left in a better position to mount a new attack.  It seems to me that the Cardassians likely wouldn't be.

Or perhaps there will be a new villain introduced.

 
 
 
Gordy327
1.2.11  Gordy327  replied to  sandy-2021492 @1.2.10    8 months ago

I could answer that for you, but I don't want to give away spoilers if you haven't finished DS9. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
1.3  sandy-2021492  replied to  Dig @1    8 months ago
The F-bomb was dropped twice and it seemed completely out of place to me. I didn't care for it at all. Trek should be classier, IMO.

Same.  And there was a bit more gore than I really care for.  I'm not queasy, but for the most part, Trek left out the gore, and let us use our imaginations.

Why would a Borg cube have so many rectangular hangar bay doors just the right size for what looked like winged Romulan-type ships? For that matter, since when do Borg cubes have a big internal hangar bay at all?

I was going to mention "Collective", but you beat me to it.  Also, I imagine it would be efficient to tractor in a ship full of beings the Borg planned to assimilate, providing they could capture such a ship without destroying it.

I'm loving the new Starfleet uniforms.

Same.  I hated the gray uniforms they wore during the Dominion War.

 
 
 
Freefaller
3  Freefaller    8 months ago

Watched it last night a few questions were answered, more were raised.  It's still intriguing me but I hope they get off earth and into space soon.

 
 
 
Dig
3.1  seeder  Dig  replied to  Freefaller @3    8 months ago

Well, in the preview for next week they show Picard sitting in the front of some kind of ship, so it can't be long now.

 
 
 
Save Me Jebus
4  Save Me Jebus    8 months ago

I've liked both episodes so far, but they're certainly providing way more questions. I guess that's what they're supposed to do to keep us coming back.

But one thing I've found is I already want a prequel. I want to see what all happened between Nemesis and now. How Romulas was destroyed, how they were treated after by everyone else. Why are some so nice (Picard's live-in Romulans), and some still such bastards (the secret group trying to infiltrate.) And what's their goal? To ultimately take over the Federation? Or because they're Romulans they can't help themselves from always being jerks? I guess we'll find out. Can't wait until next Thursday.

 
 
 
Dig
4.1  seeder  Dig  replied to  Save Me Jebus @4    8 months ago

I'm with you on that. I hoping we get a healthy amount of backstory as we go along.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Dig @4.1    8 months ago

I agree with both of you. I think there is a lot that we don't know!

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
5  sandy-2021492    8 months ago

Laris' Irish accent was more distracting in this episode.  Maybe it's because she spoke more often, and at greater length.  She also seems to have a bit of an Irish temper.

Hearing Narek being described as "hot" made me wonder if the definition of "hot" has changed by 2399.  I guess tastes differ.  Are combs not a thing in the 24th century?

I want to be friends with Agnes.

 
 
 
Dig
5.1  seeder  Dig  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5    8 months ago
Laris' Irish accent was more distracting in this episode.  Maybe it's because she spoke more often, and at greater length.  She also seems to have a bit of an Irish temper.

She's good, though. I'm liking her.

Hearing Narek being described as "hot" made me wonder if the definition of "hot" has changed by 2399.

I kind of rolled my eyes at that, too, and I'm a guy. I am so ready for this scraggly, hairy, hipster fashion phase to be over. The tattoo craze as well.

BTW, did you see the documentary short about the Romulan foreheads in the recap video? Apparently, some will have them and some won't. Go figure. And because everything is in high def these days, their eyebrows have to be made by hand, individually... One. Hair. At. A. Time. I feel kind of bad for the makeup people. There's going to be lots of Romulans in this show. Poor bastards.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
5.1.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  Dig @5.1    8 months ago
She's good, though. I'm liking her.

Same.  Odd, I don't notice the accent as much when I watch on my TV as I do when I watch on my computer.  Maybe I need a soundbar.  Or my hearing checked.

I am so ready for this scraggly, hairy, hipster fashion phase to be over.

Yes.  I don't mind tats, but a guy who looks like he showers sporadically and did something to make his barber very angry - ugh.  Not hot.

I just watched the section about Romulan foreheads.  That's a lot of work.  But when he mentioned that the look becomes elfin after a while - well, yeah.  I think they might not have solved that problem, really.  And in the case of Commodore Oh, I was trying to figure out whether she's Romulan or Vulcan.  I only assumed Romulan because she displayed emotion.  The look has become too generic.  Although I guess if she's a mole, she's likely posing as a Vulcan.

 
 
 
Dig
5.1.2  seeder  Dig  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1.1    8 months ago

Check it out - Commodore Oh

Looks like Memory Alpha contributors are working overtime to add information from the new show. It's a little annoying that they're writing about a current show in the past tense, but I guess it saves them the trouble of having to change it all later on when show ends.

There's already a page up about the Mars thing, too - Attack on Mars

Pretty cool, not to mention handy. While poking around there I discovered that the last Short Trek they released is supposed to be related to the Mars synth attack. Apparently it's called 'Children of Mars' and is about 8 1/2 minutes long. I thought Short Treks were only for Discovery, but apparently they're going to make them for Picard, too. I'm going to have to watch that one later on All Access.

 
 
 
Dig
5.1.3  seeder  Dig  replied to  Dig @5.1.2    8 months ago
There's already a page up about the Mars thing, too -  Attack on Mars

OK. Something about this storyline isn't making sense to me.

According to that article it was known in 2385 that the Romulan sun was going to go supernova, but it didn't blow until 2387. That's two whole years to evacuate. Why were they waiting for a fleet of new transports to be built by Starfleet? It seems to me that the Federation could have marshaled every available ship in the quadrant, civilian and military, and pulled off a Dunkirk type of evacuation. I mean, they had two years! Every ship could have made hundreds of round trips, and there has to be tens of thousands, if not millions of ships across the entire Federation.

The writers even had Picard mention Dunkirk in his interview, so we know it was bouncing around in people's heads while developing the show.

That's bothering me. I hate an outrageously faulty plot. I'm hoping the author of the entry got one of the dates wrong, but this is all so fresh they're probably correct franchise canon.

GRRRRRR

 
 
 
Tacos!
5.1.4  Tacos!  replied to  Dig @5.1.3    8 months ago
a Dunkirk type of evacuation. I mean, they had two years!

The people at Dunkirk wanted the help from the people who were trying to evacuate them. But imagine if it were the Nazis who were trying to evacuate them (I know that doesn't make sense given the situation, but go with it). Romulus would not have accepted help from the Federation right off the bat. They would assume that the Federation was taking advantage of the situation to wipe them out. Only at the eleventh hour would they possibly have allowed Federation ships into their space. Suspicious to a fault. 

 
 
 
Dig
5.1.5  seeder  Dig  replied to  Tacos! @5.1.4    8 months ago
Romulus would not have accepted help from the Federation right off the bat. They would assume that the Federation was taking advantage of the situation to wipe them out.

But during the interview in the first episode, Picard made a point of reminding the reporter that the Romulans had asked for the Federation's help. That's why they started building the transport fleet at Utopia Planetia. 

I probably shouldn't let it bother me, though. The whole supernova story is bad science fiction to begin with. There's no way Romulus would have been habitable right up to the supernova. Their sun would have been in an expanded red giant phase for a long, long time before that. Stars don't just go from main sequence to supernova in 2 years.

I guess I should just go with it. Suspension of disbelief and all that.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
5.1.6  sandy-2021492  replied to  Dig @5.1.5    8 months ago

Thanks for the lousy science, J. J. Abrams.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.1.7  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Dig @5.1    8 months ago
BTW, did you see the documentary short about the Romulan foreheads in the recap video? Apparently, some will have them and some won't. Go figure. And because everything is in high def these days, their eyebrows have to be made by hand, individually... One. Hair. At. A. Time. I feel kind of bad for the makeup people. There's going to be lots of Romulans in this show. Poor basterds.

Yeah, I did and it was mind-blowing. Talk about labor intensive. You have to love what you are doing to do that.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.1.8  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Dig @5.1.5    8 months ago

OK, maybe they didn't realize that the sun was in such a bad condition. We really don't know all the different conditions that happen when different kinds of suns go supernova. Maybe we will get more information on that, too. Maybe it was some sort of sabotage?

 
 
 
Dig
5.1.9  seeder  Dig  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1.6    8 months ago
Thanks for the lousy science, J. J. Abrams.

What was up with JJ? He had it out for 'Vulcanoids' didn't he? First he destroys Romulus in the prime timeline, and then he destroys Vulcan in his alternate timeline. Considering that Romulans originally descend from Vulcans, he basically perpetrated a double whammy near-genocide in the Star Trek universe. 

And speaking of lousy science, let's not forget the most egregious JJ creation of all... Red matter . You'd think they would've at least called it Black matter, since it was dreamed up to magically create black hole singularities.

Just a little drop'll do ya. jrSmiley_79_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Dig
5.1.10  seeder  Dig  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.1.8    8 months ago
We really don't know all the different conditions that happen when different kinds of suns go supernova.

We know quite a bit. I think I'm right in saying that nuclear physics is one of the most fleshed out and well-understood disciplines in science.

But, like I said, I should probably just go with it. Star Trek is science fiction, after all. If we look too closely it can all fall apart. Sometimes I get caught up in it and forget how much of it is totally made up.

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.1.11  Gordy327  replied to  Dig @5.1.3    8 months ago
According to that article it was known in 2385 that the Romulan sun was going to go supernova, but it didn't blow until 2387.

There's a (possibly non-canon) source that implies it was Section 31 which triggered the supernova. Not to mention the supernova also expanded in subspace, which can be much faster that typical expansion speeds. That in turn also implies an artificial triggering of the supernova.

Why were they waiting for a fleet of new transports to be built by Starfleet? It seems to me that the Federation could have marshaled every available ship in the quadrant, civilian and military, and pulled off a Dunkirk type of evacuation. I mean, they had two years! 

Don't forget, the Romulan people are by nature, xenophobic and paranoid. They never fully trusted the Federation and asking or accepting their help may have been seen as a sign of weakness on their part. The Romulans were also arrogant and proud. So they may not have accepted the idea that their home world would be destroyed, or that they should accept Federation help.

Bear in mind I have not seen the Picard series (I'm not paying for another streaming access-Trek should be network TV, not paid subscription), so my info is probably off. I can only go by what is known up to the start of the series.

 The whole supernova story is bad science fiction to begin with. There's no way Romulus would have been habitable right up to the supernova. Their sun would have been in an expanded red giant phase for a long, long time before that. Stars don't just go from main sequence to supernova in 2 years.

Way to get your geek on, Lol jrSmiley_79_smiley_image.gif

I guess I should just go with it. Suspension of disbelief and all that.

Well, it is science fiction after all. If we have starships that can travel faster than light and do hairpin turns in space, while ignoring their momentum in space, we can have fast acting supernovas too. 

let's not forget the most egregious JJ creation of all.

Yeah, being able to create mini black holes on a whim doesn't seem like a good idea. And people worry about handling antimatter? But when you think about about it, creating mini black holes is what Romulans do when they create  a forced quantum singularity to power their ships. If a Romulan ship suffered their equivalent of a warp core breach, the ship would implode most violently.

 
 
 
Dig
5.1.12  seeder  Dig  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1.11    8 months ago
There's a (possibly non-canon) source that implies it was Section 31 which triggered the supernova. Not to mention the supernova also expanded in subspace, which can be much faster that typical expansion speeds. That in turn also implies an artificial triggering of the supernova.

I don't think section 31 would commit genocide. They may be extremely covert rule benders, but that's taking things a bit too far. They're still a Federation agency.

And I didn't think the supernova expanded much past its own system at all. JJ had Spock sprinkle some red matter on it so it would turn into a black hole and not, and I quote, "destroy the galaxy", remember? Not enough to save Romulus and Remus, of course, but enough to 'save the galaxy'. Another JJ idiocy.

Bear in mind I have not seen the Picard series (I'm not paying for another streaming access-Trek should be network TV, not paid subscription)

I hear you. I felt the same way until just last week. You can watch the first episode for free, though. I have it posted at the top of this page, under the recap video.

Way to get your geek on, Lol

Sometimes I can't help myself. :)

But when you think about about it, creating mini black holes is what Romulans do when they create  a forced quantum singularity to power their ships.

Yeah, but were they using magic red matter goop to do it?

I never understood that, anyway. How do you power a ship with a mini black hole? You can't get power from gravity. Perpetual motion machines are impossible (or at least, perpetual power machines are).

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.1.13  Gordy327  replied to  Dig @5.1.12    8 months ago

Don't forget, Section 31 attempted to genocide the Founders with a plague during the Dominion War on DS9. And they've engaged in subterfuge with the Romulus before. So engaging in genocide if they think it's for the security of the Federation is not above them. Also, they operate outside the purview and notice of Starfleet and the Federation on general. Very few are even aware of their existence.

As far as the supernova goes, we don't know anything about how (natural vs artifical triggers)   or when it started. We know it was massive, expanded through subspace, and destroyed Romulus. It's also been established that trilithium will cause a star to go prematurely nova. So its possible Section 31 has the means to cause a supernova. Saying the supernova threatened the entire galaxy does seem to be a dramatic exaggeration. But Red matter does make for convenient plot armor, doesn't it?

As far a singularities as a power source, I think I've heard somewhere explaining how that's possible. I have to check. 

 
 
 
Dig
5.1.14  seeder  Dig  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1.13    8 months ago
Don't forget, Section 31 attempted to genocide the Founders with a plague

Oh, that's right. They did. Good grief. I forgot about that.

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.1.15  Gordy327  replied to  Dig @5.1.14    8 months ago

To be fair, that was over 20 years ago.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
6  sandy-2021492    8 months ago

Anybody else see the "8,538 (or something like that) days since an assimilation in this facility" sign in the Borg cube?  Made me giggle.

 
 
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