As Trump vows to leave Syria, Kurds fear a power grab by Iran and Russia

  
Via:  Krishna  •  9 months ago  •  191 comments

As Trump vows to leave Syria, Kurds fear a power grab by Iran and Russia
“Putin will seize the oil first chance he gets . . . the Russians will bring in additional forces for the offensive . . . "

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Photo credit: U.S.-backed Kurdish fighters have cleared more than 50 percent of the Islamic State group’s self-proclaimed capital of Raqqa, according to military officials. ( Military Times, August 2017)

President Trump’s snap decision to withdraw all U.S. forces from Syria has set off a panic among America’s principal Kurdish allies in Syria and created a mood of impending crisis in the Kurdistan Regional Government of northern Iraq.

Officials in Erbil, the capital of Iraq’s Kurdish region, are now struggling to prepare for the consequences of what they fear will result from a hasty U.S. military withdrawal from Syria, the announcement of which caught them and even senior members of the Trump administration off-guard.

Among the feared outcomes is further empowerment of Iran and Russia in the region; a steady erosion of hard-won military gains against the Islamic State group, or ISIS; and another massive refugee wave.

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Krishna
1  seeder  Krishna    9 months ago

Among the feared outcomes is further empowerment of Iran and Russia in the region . . . 

OK, so that explains it-- no wonder Trump has decided to withdraw U.S. forces! 

(Both Putin and his puppet Trump are now smiling!)

 
 
 
nightwalker
1.1  nightwalker  replied to  Krishna @1    9 months ago

THAT'S not true. trump is pouting in the WH because he's not in the tight romance of Putin and Assad and he's jealous. 

Erdogan was sad that ISIS didn't get to his country so he could join them with open arms. Isn't he the one who said that he disapproves of the way young people walk around smiling sometimes and even laughing out loud? Sometimes, even the WOMEN and worse YOUNG girls.. and that "pole dance," no female should do that on the name alone. They should follow the Koran closer. Back to religious slavery girls, know your place.

There's a noble ally for the U.S.

Now he's happier, ISIS may make it to his gates yet, and if he kills all the Kurds as he said he would, he MIGHT be included in the split of that oil rich land, if Putin allows.

Hey, maybe trump will get a hug from Putin and Assad if Erdogan can get the trump to send troops to help destroy them (just now discovered evil) Marxist Kurds.

jrSmiley_12_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Krishna
2  seeder  Krishna    9 months ago

Among the feared outcomes is further empowerment of Iran and Russia in the region; a steady erosion of hard-won military gains against the Islamic State group, or ISIS; and another massive refugee wave.

 
 
 
Dulay
3  Dulay    9 months ago

Just read that Mattis signed the withdrawal order...

 
 
 
Krishna
3.1  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Dulay @3    9 months ago

Just read that Mattis signed the withdrawal order...

He's a military man--  to go against the order of the Commander in Chief (no matter how stupid) is something that would be severely punished. 

 
 
 
Dulay
3.1.1  Dulay  replied to  Krishna @3.1    9 months ago

Just sayin', the orders have been cut and signed. I don't think that Mattis resigned in vain though. 

 
 
 
Krishna
3.1.2  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Dulay @3.1.1    9 months ago

I don't think that Mattis resigned in vain though. 

I hope you're right.

I suppose the only way Trump will reverse this sheer cowardly sell out of some of our best allies is is he gets enough pressure from enough Republicans. But still, if Trump somehow stands to gain enough financially from this cowardly folding towards Turkey, he may not reverse course :-(

And of course this sends a clear message to our other friends and allies worldwide-- you can no longer count on the word of the U.S.-- you can while we demand 100% loyalty from you, you can no longer count on us to back you up. 

Our word is no longer our bond... :-(

 
 
 
Tacos!
3.1.3  Tacos!  replied to  Krishna @3.1    9 months ago
He's a military man--  to go against the order of the Commander in Chief (no matter how stupid) is something that would be severely punished.

He could have resigned before signing it if he had that much of a problem with it. 

 
 
 
Dulay
3.1.4  Dulay  replied to  Krishna @3.1.2    9 months ago
Our word is no longer our bond...

And fewer and fewer principled people will be willing to make promised to our allies when they have no idea if Trump will change his mind the next day. 

 
 
 
321steve
3.1.5  321steve  replied to  Tacos! @3.1.3    9 months ago
He could have resigned before signing it if he had that much of a problem with it.

Chances are that was considered by him, for some reason he did it this way. 

I have had to leave positions over others actions before that doesn't mean you leave a mess on your way out the door. Although some would just out of spite.  Truly decent folks just move on. 

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
3.2  Larry Hampton  replied to  Dulay @3    9 months ago

So it's official; we've abandoned an ally in field.

jrSmiley_42_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Dulay
3.2.1  Dulay  replied to  Larry Hampton @3.2    9 months ago

Pretty much. What's worse is that it's on the word of the corrupt leader of Turkey. 

 
 
 
Kavika
3.2.2  Kavika   replied to  Larry Hampton @3.2    9 months ago
So it's official; we've abandoned an ally in field.

How fucking sad is that. The Kurds are the ones that were the first to stand up to ISIS and hand them serious defeats. How we throw them under the bus. The Kurds of Iraq and Syria were the tip of the spear...

 
 
 
dave-2693993
3.2.3  dave-2693993  replied to  Kavika @3.2.2    9 months ago
The Kurds of Iraq and Syria were the tip of the spear...

Exactly.

They WERE the tip of the spear.

Wam, bam, thank you mam.

That's all she wrote.

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
3.2.4  Larry Hampton  replied to  Kavika @3.2.2    9 months ago

...and on Christmas. Jesus must be so proud...

 
 
 
cjcold
3.2.5  cjcold  replied to  Kavika @3.2.2    9 months ago

This isn't the first time that a republican president has kicked the Kurds under the bus after they have risked everything to help us.

 
 
 
zuksam
3.2.6  zuksam  replied to  cjcold @3.2.5    9 months ago
This isn't the first time that a republican president has kicked the Kurds under the bus

Obama didn't do them any favors either. The fact is we were always going to screw the Kurds because the only way to help them is to carve off a piece of Iraq and Syria but we won't do that because it will piss off fellow NATO member Turkey. Their historical Homeland overlaps Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Turkey, we screwed them after WW1 and we've been screwing them ever since. It's a damn shame but I hardly think it's Trumps fault for doing what was going to happen anyway. If it were up to me I'd say screw everyone else and give them their rightful lands in Iraq and Syria and I'd tell Turkey that they are under our protection but that's me. Bush 1 and 2, Clinton, and Obama all felt the same as Trump but for some reason Trump is wrong while they were right.

 
 
 
MrFrost
3.2.7  MrFrost  replied to  Larry Hampton @3.2    9 months ago
So it's official; we've abandoned an ally in field.

Yep. But what would you expect from a president that took 5 deferments? Trump is a coward. 

 
 
 
nightwalker
3.2.8  nightwalker  replied to  dave-2693993 @3.2.3    9 months ago

This will certainly bring future allies flocking to the side if the U.S. all right.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
4  dave-2693993    9 months ago

Follow the money.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
5  Buzz of the Orient    9 months ago

So the American government wants to be known to hug its enemies (or enemies of its allies) and screw its friends - and to think that I was critical of Obama and his relationship with that Jew-hating dictator Erdogan....

Israel shouldn't be so quick to idolize Trump - they have no idea what's coming.

 
 
 
Tacos!
6  Tacos!    9 months ago

We are not at war with Russia, Syria, or Iran. We are at war with ISIS. They haven't been in Iraq for a year and they are mostly done in Syria.

Fight to Retake Last ISIS Territory Begins

Sept. 11, 2018

The last vestige of the Islamic State’s caliphate that straddled Syria and Iraq is under attack.

Members of an American-backed coalition said Tuesday that they had begun a final push to oust the militants from Hajin, Syria, the remaining sliver of land under the group’s control in the region where it was born.

The assault is the final chapter of a war that began more than four years ago after the Islamic State, also known as ISIS, seized vast tracts in Iraq and Syria and declared a caliphate. The group lost its last territory in Iraq last year.

...

The group has lost all but 1 percent of the territory it held in Iraq and Syria

As for any surviving members of ISIS, the troops Trump is pulling out are not equipped to deal with them.

Throughout cleared areas, Islamic State members are believed to have melted back into the population.

...

The forces that drove the Islamic State from its lands were equipped to liberate occupied cities, not fight a dispersed, clandestine force. Their vehicles and weapons were designed for engaging the enemy frontally in heavy combat, not for rooting out individual fighters in hiding.

So people insisting that these forces need to stay don't seem to know what they are talking about.

The troops that were there were few and only there for a few years. Obama sent them in dribs and drabs starting in 2015 with about 50 people, then 250, and so on. The potential threat from the Kurds' neighbors predates that. We aren't pulling out some massive army protecting the Kurds. We are withdrawing only 2,000 troops who were there to kill ISIS.

Establishing Kurdish security is not why our troops were there. The threat to the Kurds is old but they are still there. It may go on for a long time. Arguing that we should keep troops illegally in some other country just to protect them from something that may or may not happen is arguing that we will be violating the sovereignty of other nations indefinitely and for no reason that serves the national security interests of the United States. 

Liberals used to be against that kind of thing.

 
 
 
321steve
6.1  321steve  replied to  Tacos! @6    9 months ago
Liberals used to be against that kind of thing.

I dont remember liberals advocating for abandoning allies. Conservatives either for that matter. 

 
 
 
arkpdx
6.1.1  arkpdx  replied to  321steve @6.1    9 months ago

I guess you forgot about how a liberal (for that time) democrat abandoned allies at the Bay of Pigs or all the protests from the left to get us to abandon the Vietnamese which we eventually did or how the left-footed in the streets calling corn us to abandon the Kuwaitis to their fate with Saddam Hussein  

 
 
 
Tacos!
6.1.2  Tacos!  replied to  321steve @6.1    9 months ago
I dont remember liberals advocating for abandoning allies.

No one has been abandoned. Are the Kurds currently pinned down by ISIS? Of course not. There is no justification to stay there (in the territory of a sovereign country that doesn't want us there) because of something that they or some other country might someday, maybe, perhaps do in the future at some unspecified time.

 
 
 
321steve
6.1.3  321steve  replied to  arkpdx @6.1.1    9 months ago
you forgot about how a liberal .....................

Ok lets put it this way as a county we like to imagine we dont screw others over, we like to imagine we have done good each time we have been involved internationally. Reality shows otherwise, time and time again. 

And again this time. 

I'm not surprised, unset or going to lose any sleep over it. I've known the reality that the American government doesn't keep its word for a long time.

We usually don't, unless it suits us.

IMO" Neither political party is blameless in the mess we call america. $23,000,000,000,000.00 in dept and adding to it daily.  A house of cards !

with an unpredictable know it all at the helm........ and one who is more afraid everyday his power will be threatened....

GOOD Luck America ! 

 
 
 
321steve
6.1.4  321steve  replied to  Tacos! @6.1.2    9 months ago

Many times we leave protectionary troops behind for even years when we believe there is a need.  What changed ?

Leadership ?

The times ?

America's attitude ?

I'd say all three.

Some like it, some don't. 

I don't.

 
 
 
Tacos!
6.1.5  Tacos!  replied to  321steve @6.1.4    9 months ago
What changed ?

Different situations call for different actions. The force we had in Syria was built to drive ISIS out of the cities in Iraq and Syria. They did that. If there are other missions to do, that force isn't necessarily the best way to accomplish them.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
6.2  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Tacos! @6    9 months ago
Establishing Kurdish security is not why our troops were there.

Of course not and no one ever claimed such a thing (although it's clear you'd like to invent that strawman to knock down).  ISIL would never have been pushed out if the Kurds hadn't been a very effective U.S. ally.  

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7  XDm9mm    9 months ago

I find it interesting that of all the comments posted about President Trump withdrawing our troops from Syria, the vast majority lambasting and chastising him, I did not see ONE from any poster willing to volunteer to go there.  Armchair generals?

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1  Dulay  replied to  XDm9mm @7    9 months ago
I did not see ONE from any poster willing to volunteer to go there.

Well gee XD, how many NT members are there and how many of them are UNDER 42? Since less than 1% of Americans volunteer for the military, it doesn't seem like NT members would make a dent. 

BTW, the issue isn't about where our troops come from, it's about fucked up foreign policy and keeping our word to our allies and partners. 

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
7.1.1  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Dulay @7.1    9 months ago
it's about fucked up foreign policy and keeping our word to our allies and partners. 

and when they are pushing the globalist agenda like in syria?   they all can simply fuk off.

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.2  Dulay  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @7.1.1    9 months ago

You know that Trump put MORE troops in Syria right? 

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
7.1.3  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Dulay @7.1.2    9 months ago

 

mattis  leaving the administration

and

our troops are leaving syria.

and yet... there is no connection at all... 

seems mattis got trumped jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif

no "globalist activity, game plan, or entity" is safe for long.

cheers :)

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.1.4  XDm9mm  replied to  Dulay @7.1    9 months ago

Well gee Dulay....   I was in Ramadi Iraq at 55yo, and continued going to the shitholes of the world till I had a back injury in 2015...  yeah I was 65 then.

As to foreign policy, how fucking long are we to stay there?  Please be specific.

Further, EXACTLY what are we to accomplish by staying there.  Again, please be specific.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.1.5  XDm9mm  replied to  Dulay @7.1.2    9 months ago
You know that Trump put MORE troops in Syria right?

You know that was to crush ISIS in Aleppo, their stronghold, right?

Exactly where is their stronghold now?  Please be specific.   Location(s) and force numbers will be required.

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.6  Dulay  replied to  XDm9mm @7.1.4    9 months ago
As to foreign policy, how fucking long are we to stay there?  Please be specific.

As long as we promised our allies and partners.

Trump's State Dept. on Dec 11, 2018 said ISIS was still viable and we were staying in the fight, on Dec. 19, 2018 Trump tweets that we defeated ISIS and are withdrawing. 

Further, EXACTLY what are we to accomplish by staying there. Again, please be specific.

Keeping our WORD. 

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.7  Dulay  replied to  XDm9mm @7.1.5    9 months ago
You know that was to crush ISIS in Aleppo, their stronghold, right?

You know that hundreds of Marines with M777 howitzers were sent into Ragga, right? 

BTFW, since al-Qaeda doesn't have a stronghold, is the war on terror over? 

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.8  Dulay  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @7.1.3    9 months ago
seems mattis got trumped

Mattis is STILL being praised and Trump is being ridiculed. Seems that Trump trumped himself...

 
 
 
MUVA
7.1.9  MUVA  replied to  Dulay @7.1    9 months ago

You can volunteer at any age the Kurds will except you with open arms it is called putting your money where your mouth is. 

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.10  Dulay  replied to  MUVA @7.1.9    9 months ago

You know that how? They send you brochures? 

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
7.1.11  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Dulay @7.1.8    9 months ago
Mattis is STILL being praised and Trump is being ridiculed.

not by anyone who matters.

piss ant neocons and progressives.... do not matter.

cheers :)

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.12  Dulay  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @7.1.11    9 months ago
not by anyone who matters.

piss ant neocons and progressives.... do not matter.

cheers

Thanks for sharing your bias opinion against the vast majority of the country. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
7.1.13  Texan1211  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @7.1.11    9 months ago

Hey!!

Your biased opinion isn't as good as everyone else's biased opinion!

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.1.14  XDm9mm  replied to  Dulay @7.1.6    9 months ago
Keeping our WORD. 

And how much blood are YOU willing to spill?

Talk is cheap when you have no skin in the game.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.1.15  XDm9mm  replied to  Dulay @7.1.7    9 months ago
You know that hundreds of Marines with M777 howitzers were sent into Ragga, right?

I never knew that Marines using Howitzers could go out on special ops type patrols.   Just how fucking big are those men?  And how much ammo can they pack in?

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.16  Dulay  replied to  XDm9mm @7.1.14    9 months ago
And how much blood are YOU willing to spill?

The same amount as 99+% of Americans. 

Talk is cheap when you have no skin in the game.

Again, I have the same amount of 'skin in the game' as 99+% of Americans. 

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.17  Dulay  replied to  XDm9mm @7.1.15    9 months ago

So you WERE unaware that hundreds of Marines were sent to Ragga with Howitzers. See, you learned something here at NT. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.1.18  XDm9mm  replied to  Dulay @7.1.17    9 months ago
So you WERE unaware that hundreds of Marines were sent to Ragga with Howitzers

I never said that.   I simply asked a question, which you are obviously unable or unwilling to answer.

And how much blood are YOU willing to spill? The same amount as 99+% of Americans. 

So, you're big bad and brave as long as others are willing to sacrifice.  Thanks for the admission.

Talk is cheap when you have no skin in the game. Again, I have the same amount of 'skin in the game' as 99+% of Americans. 

Again, talk is cheap.  And with each post you make, getting cheaper.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
7.1.19  1stwarrior  replied to  Dulay @7.1.17    9 months ago

“In five months they fired 35,000 artillery rounds on ISIS targets, killing ISIS fighters by the dozens,” Troxell told Marine Corps Times during a roundtable discussion Jan. 23. “We needed them to put pressure on ISIS and we needed them to kill ISIS.

The Marines brought the M777 howitzers ― a 155mm gun. A standard artillery battery has roughly six guns and up to 150 Marines; a battalion would include up to 18 guns or three firing batteries.

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2018/02/06/these-marines-in-syria-fired-more-artillery-than-any-battalion-since-vietnam/

ISIS was not defeated - just had "about" 95% of their land base wiped out, but ISIS is still a very viable force.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.1.20  XDm9mm  replied to  1stwarrior @7.1.19    9 months ago
ISIS was not defeated - just had "about" 95% of their land base wiped out, but ISIS is still a very viable force.

Truthfully, they will never be 'defeated' as one cannot defeat an idea.   All we can ever hope to do is contain the spread of the ideology.

We "defeated" them by eliminating their 'base of operations', but like all bad ideas it will continue to exist.  Hell, we haven't eliminated the ideas that create people like the KKK and NAZI's, but we have effectively contained them.

Whatever holiday you celebrate, if any, here's wishing you and yours happiness, health and prosperity now and in the new year. 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
7.1.21  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  XDm9mm @7.1.15    9 months ago

Marines before all else are are trained as riflemen first before specializing in other areas, and they are some of the best marksmen in any of the four branches of the military.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.1.22  XDm9mm  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @7.1.21    9 months ago
Marines before all else are are trained as riflemen first before specializing in other areas

Yeah, I know.   In fact, I've been told that in the Marines, ALL personnel are combat riflemen first, officers or enlisted is immaterial.

By the way....  I've always meant to ask.   Are you a "doctor" or medic.   And aren't all Marine 'medics' actually Navy? 

When my back was hurt, I had an Army PA (major) and a Navy medic (I believe a Chief PO) helping me control the pain till I rotated back.  They were both 'detailed' to the organization I was contracting to.   They were both great and I tried keeping in touch with them but haven't heard in back again in just over a year now.   Hopefully, just working or detailed in places I'm not privvy to.

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.23  Dulay  replied to  XDm9mm @7.1.18    9 months ago
I simply asked a question, which you are obviously unable or unwilling to answer.

Really XD? That was a serious question? 

So, you're big bad and brave as long as others are willing to sacrifice. Thanks for the admission. Again, talk is cheap. And with each post you make, getting cheaper.

Thank YOU for making it clear that you chose to make it personal rather than addressing the topic. Well done. 

 
 
 
MUVA
7.1.24  MUVA  replied to  Dulay @7.1.23    9 months ago

Hey you can to Syria by the end of the year to volunteer to fight I will pay for the plane ticket. 

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.25  Dulay  replied to  MUVA @7.1.24    9 months ago

Please repost that coherently. 

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.26  Dulay  replied to  1stwarrior @7.1.19    9 months ago
ISIS was not defeated - just had "about" 95% of their land base wiped out, but ISIS is still a very viable force.

Totally agree...

 
 
 
1stwarrior
7.1.27  1stwarrior  replied to  XDm9mm @7.1.15    9 months ago

XD - and I'm saying this with a smile - BUT - you and most of the world have absolutely no idea what the Marines can/are tasked to do - and they pull it off beautifully.

Semper Fi.

 
 
 
MUVA
7.1.28  MUVA  replied to  Dulay @7.1.25    9 months ago

 Volunteer to Fight or stop talking shit.

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.29  Dulay  replied to  1stwarrior @7.1.27    9 months ago

At least some of us took the time to know what we were talking about before commenting. 

One of my old friend's kid is a Marine deployed there. She is very proud of him and scared shitless. 

 
 
 
bugsy
7.1.30  bugsy  replied to  Dulay @7.1.16    9 months ago
The same amount as 99+% of Americans

So nothing...got it.

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.31  Dulay  replied to  bugsy @7.1.30    9 months ago

I presume that 99+% includes you...

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.1.32  XDm9mm  replied to  Dulay @7.1.23    9 months ago
So, you're big bad and brave as long as others are willing to sacrifice. Thanks for the admission. Again, talk is cheap. And with each post you make, getting cheaper.
Thank YOU for making it clear that you chose to make it personal rather than addressing the topic. Well done. 

  Deleted

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.1.33  XDm9mm  replied to  Dulay @7.1.29    9 months ago
One of my old friend's kid is a Marine deployed there. She is very proud of him and scared shitless. 

[Deleted]

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.1.34  XDm9mm  replied to  1stwarrior @7.1.27    9 months ago
XD - and I'm saying this with a smile - BUT - you and most of the world have absolutely no idea what the Marines can/are tasked to do - and they pull it off beautifully.

The only Marines I've interacted with were a few friends and those that I was with while in Ramadi 2005-2006.   They were also detailed to the organization I contracted to when I quit and went contractor when I got back from Iraq.   I have the greatest respect for all of them....   hell, for everyone in uniform.  They do what 99% of the population can't or won't do.  

 
 
 
bugsy
7.1.35  bugsy  replied to  Dulay @7.1.31    9 months ago

Nope...20 years Navy retiring in 2005. I've been to the ME and know what these savages are capable of. Can you do that from your couch?

 
 
 
MUVA
7.1.36  MUVA  replied to  bugsy @7.1.35    9 months ago

If you get your info like some from the likes of Huffington post or Mother Jones and any of the left wing mouth piece media they only know half the truth it is sad.Just because Richard Engel says something doesn't make it true even if he were embedded with a military unit for a couple hours. 

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.37  Dulay  replied to  bugsy @7.1.35    9 months ago
Can you do that from your couch?

What? Be retired since 2005?

No, I don't own a couch. 

 
 
 
bugsy
7.1.38  bugsy  replied to  Dulay @7.1.37    9 months ago

So, no. You don''t know what you are talking about. It's OK, you don't have to outright say it.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
7.1.39  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  XDm9mm @7.1.22    9 months ago

I am a retired U.S. Navy Fleet Marine Force qualified Hospital Corpsman who spent most of my 20 year career in and around front line USMC units. All medical personnel assigned to the Marines both officer and enlisted are Navy personnel. All go through a sort of mini Marine boot camp prior to being assigned to the Marines. All Hospital Corpsman are enlisted. The Navy has Corpsmen, not medics. Kind of a point of  contention and pride. Ask any Navy Hospital Corpsman if he/she is a medic and most will bluntly that they are Corpsmen, not medics. Army and Air Force have medics. Roughly analagous to each other, but distinctly different.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
7.1.40  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  bugsy @7.1.35    9 months ago

20 years Navy myself. Caught the tail end of Vietnam and the 1st Gulf war. Retired in 1993.

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.41  Dulay  replied to  bugsy @7.1.38    9 months ago

Obtuse.

 
 
 
Kavika
7.1.42  Kavika   replied to  Ed-NavDoc @7.1.39    9 months ago

23 Corpsmen and 52 Medics have been awarded the Medal of Honor in the history of the U.S. Military.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
7.1.43  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Kavika @7.1.42    9 months ago

Yep. When taken percentage wise, I believe Hospital Corpsmen and Medics have the highest number of Medals of Honor presented of any job field in the U.S. military.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
7.1.44  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Dulay @7.1.12    9 months ago
against the vast majority of the country.

screw the majority...

when the USA becomes a democracy? I will let you know.

for now and always... the USA is a republic.

the national majority means nothing. and it never will.

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.45  Dulay  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @7.1.44    9 months ago
screw the majority...

The only majority that's going to matter in the near future are the Democratic majorities on the House Committees. The one vote majority that the GOP has enjoyed will no longer be able to protect Trump from himself. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
7.1.46  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @7.1.45    9 months ago
The only majority that's going to matter in the near future are the Democratic majorities on the House Committees.

Because they are gonna do such a great job for the "Americans" in this country ?

That's Just "Ass"uming that was the importance you were putting forth in your comment though. (Snicker Face)

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
7.1.47  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.13    9 months ago
Your biased opinion isn't as good as everyone else's biased opinion!

thank god...

there will never be a day a progressive agrees with me on anything and I am OK with that

cheers :)

 

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
7.1.48  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Dulay @7.1.45    9 months ago
The only majority that's going to matter in the near future are the Democratic majorities on the House Committees.

they can fuk off also...

but I will enjoy every attempt made by the left to bring trump down.

  • he will never last a month
  • he will never last 6 months
  • he will never last a year
  • well... any day now he is going down

please continue I find it hilarious  :)

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
7.1.49  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  It Is ME @7.1.46    9 months ago

while the left goes after tax returns in the house committee?

   we will be processing well over 60k currently sealed indictments across our nation.

 the fun has not even begun yet :)

 
 
 
Ronin2
7.1.50  Ronin2  replied to  Dulay @7.1.10    9 months ago

Took two seconds to find when searching.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11398325/The-British-soldier-fighting-Isil-with-the-Kurds.html

There's a 66-year-old retired teacher from Canada and a handful of ex-British army soldiers.

There is an American fundamentalist Christian whose Muslim Kurdish comrades wait for him to say grace before beginning their evening meal of vegetables and pitta bread.

Then there are the Kurds: hardline socialists who have sworn to give up their families and devote themselves to the cause of fighting Isil.

Far from the RAF Typhoons and Jordanian and American F16s, there is another east-west coalition fighting Isil. It is a war that is far less glamorous, far more eccentric yet just as important to the future of Syria and Iraq.

A regular trickle of westerners, including Britons, have travelled out to the Middle East to join the YPG, the Syrian Kurdish militia that has shot to worldwide fame for its defence and ultimate victory in the border town of Kobane.

Few, if any, have ended up in Kobane itself. Most have been sent to the north-east of Syria, defending the self-styled Kurdish enclave of Rojava, a patch of territory squeezed between the deserts of eastern Syria, the far east of Turkey and Iraqi Kurdistan.

Alan Duncan, a former soldier with the Royal Irish Regiment , said most were motivated by a desire to help the Kurds, who they see as defending civilisation against Islamic State jihadists.

"I sat watching what was going on on television," he said, in an interview at a hotel near his home. He asked for his location not to be revealed, as he "didn't want to end up as another Lee Rigby", referring to the soldier attacked and killed in Woolwich .

"I decided I couldn't just sit there any more. It wasn't because of Lee Rigby - but that reinforced my belief that we had to do something to help them."

Mr Duncan was speaking after returning from his first five-week tour with the YPG, during which he spent time on the front line, taking part in one pitched battle against an Isil attack.

Yes, the Kurds will allow people to join them and fight ISIS/ISIL. Chances are it will extend beyond that once ISIS/ISIL is gone and all of the factions in Syria start their power struggle.

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.51  Dulay  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @7.1.48    9 months ago
please continue I find it hilarious

I'm unable to continue what I never started. You'll have to find your entertainment elsewhere. 

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.52  Dulay  replied to  Ronin2 @7.1.50    9 months ago

Is that how MUVA heard about it? 

It doesn't look like they have openings for Sexagenarian horticulturists.

Once the US is gone they'll have to release the 3200 ISIS prisoners they have because they don't have the manpower to waste on guarding them. 

 

 
 
 
Ronin2
7.1.53  Ronin2  replied to  Dulay @7.1.52    9 months ago
Is that how MUVA heard about it? It doesn't look like they have openings for Sexagenarian horticulturists.

Really, it took one Google search and two seconds to find. If you can hold a gun, and they can train you to reload and shoot straight they will take you. Here, I will even make it easier for you with a link on how to join the Kurdish fighters in Syria.

https://fusion.tv/story/324193/fight-isis-syria-war-kurds/

And a direct link to their Facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/Lions-Of-Rojava-1702231736666880/

Once the US is gone they'll have to release the 3200 ISIS prisoners they have because they don't have the manpower to waste on guarding them. 

Really. They are just going to release 3200 of the their mortal enemies. You really think the 2500 or so troops we have in Syria are guarding captured ISIS/ISIL combatants? We are training fighters; providing logistical support; coordinating air cover; and above all else attempting to get our many and politically diverse rebel groups to cooperate- instead of fighting each other, and the Kurds. The last thing we are doing is guard duty.

How long do you expect to keep troops there?  What will it take to declare victory and leave? Or do you want a never ending open engagement like Afghanistan and Iraq?

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
7.1.54  Nowhere Man  replied to  XDm9mm @7.1.15    9 months ago
I never knew that Marines using Howitzers could go out on special ops type patrols.   Just how fucking big are those men?  And how much ammo can they pack in?

Yeah, they are pretty strappin' boys, you should see it when they do offhand plinking.... Quite a sight.....

{chuckle}

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
7.1.55  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Dulay @7.1.10    9 months ago

Here is info on how to join to fight with the kurds.

https://fusion.tv/story/324193/fight-isis-syria-war-kurds/

I'll even loan you an M4 Carbine and 10 30 round clips with ammo to boot. Be advised you will need permission from our Government to travel out of the country with the weapon though.

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.56  Dulay  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @7.1.55    9 months ago

It's so heartening to see how many of you boys in the fraternity want to send me on a vacation in the ME. /s

I repeat: 

Is that how MUVA heard about it? 

It doesn't look like they have openings for Sexagenarian horticulturists.

 
 
 
Tacos!
7.2  Tacos!  replied to  XDm9mm @7    9 months ago

And remember the big accusation leveled at Trump was that because he was a draft-dodger, he didn't truly understand and respect the military or war and would recklessly throw our troops into battle at the drop of a hat. Now, he moves to protect troops in the field and bring them home and he's a monster for it.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.2.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Tacos! @7.2    9 months ago

When our military power is serving a purpose, I'm all for using it.

Having 2,000 of our men/women stationed someplace with NO real purpose other than to act as a buffer or safety net for other combatants is ludicrous.

Besides, if push comes to shove and ISIS tries to re-establish a stronghold there, let Putin waste his troops killing them off, or if that fails, we can always pound them with drones.   Hell, popping off a few hellfire missiles is much better than having ANY of our people hurt or killed.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
7.2.2  1stwarrior  replied to  Tacos! @7.2    9 months ago

Tacos - we need to get ALL of our military out of the ME.  We have absolutely no need to be involved in the ME Sheik's little wars amongst themselves - never have - never will.

 
 
 
Kavika
7.2.3  Kavika   replied to  1stwarrior @7.2.2    9 months ago

I've been reading the comments re this subject. I'm one that feels we are deserting our allies (Kurds) we asked them to fight and they fought and died. This would be the second time that we've hung them out to dry. 

Everyone has their opinion but the stupid shit that I've read from some of our members re this subject is really discourging. Personal attacks, telling another member to go spill their blood, what stupid shit is that. 

You may not like my position on the Kurds but I've paid my dues as has my son a 100% disabled Marine. If you don't like my postion you surely can disagree with it but please don't try throwing stupid challenges and shit at me or my comments. 

I feel that our word as a country means something. And leaving the Kurds hanging out to dry isn't, IMO, a honorable thing to do. This is not the first time, if any of you are Vietnam Vets you probably know that we did the same to the Montagnards. 

That said, I will continue to disagree with the order to withdraw from Syria. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
7.2.4  Ronin2  replied to  Kavika @7.2.3    9 months ago
I've been reading the comments re this subject. I'm one that feels we are deserting our allies (Kurds) we asked them to fight and they fought and died. This would be the second time that we've hung them out to dry. 

First time was Bush Sr and his call for Iraqis to overthrow Saddam. Of course Bush said the US would support a new Iraqi government- he didn't mean we would support the uprising. We vastly underestimated the amount of losses the Republican Red Guard incurred. The Kurds and Shai started a short lived- futile- civil war thinking the US was going to rush into Iraq and overthrow Saddam for them.  They shouldn't have expected it then- they definitely cannot expect it now in Syria.

I feel that our word as a country means something.

As do most Americans. 

leaving the Kurds hanging out to dry

We are not leaving the Kurds out to dry. Our stated purpose was to remove ISIS/ISIL as a threat from Syria.  We have done so. The Kurds, "moderate" Sunni rebels, and Syria government (backed by Russia, China, and Iran) can do the rest.

we did the same to the Montagnards

I am sorry. Vietnam was a mistake on our part from the get go- and another failed attempt at nation building. We could have fought in Vietnam forever and the government we supported still would have failed.  People get hurt in wars; that includes those we ally with. As for the Montagnards they still exist today.

http://factsanddetails.com/southeast-asia/Vietnam/sub5_9d/entry-3395.html

That said, I will continue to disagree with the order to withdraw from Syria. 

That is your right. Just as it is my right to disagree with destabilizing yet another country for no good reason. Do you want to leave troops in Syria forever as a buffer between the Kurds and the "moderate" Sunni rebels, Turks, Syrian Government, Russians, Chinese, and Iranians forever? What it the Kurds decide to attack any of the mentioned factions? Is the US going to force those factions to stop their pursuit into Kurdish held territory? What are we going to do if Russia decides to force the issue and simply destroys are small buffer force? I am sorry, while I like playing the Fallout video game series, I have no interest in living through WWIII.

We have accomplished our stated goal. Let those that we have trained, and the Syrian government with their allies finish off ISIS/ISIL.  That includes in Iraq. Hopefully Trump is drawing up those orders now.

 
 
 
Kavika
7.2.5  Kavika   replied to  Ronin2 @7.2.4    9 months ago
he didn't mean we would support the uprising.

That is not what the Iraq and the Kurds thought. 

We are not leaving the Kurds out to dry. Our stated purpose was to remove ISIS/ISIL as a threat from Syria.  We have done so. The Kurds, "moderate" Sunni rebels, and Syria government (backed by Russia, China, and Iran) can do the rest.

We are leaving them to face Edrogan and Turkey who aim it is to destroy the Syrian Kurds. That is the way we are hanging them out to dry. 

I am sorry. Vietnam was a mistake on our part from the get go- and another failed attempt at nation building. We could have fought in Vietnam forever and the government we supported still would have failed.  People get hurt in wars; that includes those we ally with. As for the Montagnards they still exist today.

I didn't say was our involvement in Vietnam was right or wrong. What I did say was that we left the Montagnards to be slaughtered. And that is exactly what happened.  Many Vietnam vets have tried to get the Montagnards to the US...They exist as a people but not in the numbers there were. 

That is your right. Just as it is my right to disagree with destabilizing yet another country for no good reason. Do you want to leave troops in Syria forever as a buffer between the Kurds and the "moderate" Sunni rebels, Turks, Syrian Government, Russians, Chinese, and Iranians forever? What it the Kurds decide to attack any of the mentioned factions? Is the US going to force those factions to stop their pursuit into Kurdish held territory? What are we going to do if Russia decides to force the issue and simply destroys are small buffer force? I am sorry, while I like playing the Fallout video game series, I have no interest in living through WWIII.

You can play what if games forever. I have never said anything about favoring nation building. But if we have troops in numerous other countires, South Korea and Germany for example, why is that different then Syria? Are we not there (South Korea) as a deterrent against the North Koreans, Chinese or Russians? Why are we in Germany, isnt' that as a deterrent again Russia?

Oh and BTW, I did live through WWII and all the following wars that we have been involved in. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
7.2.6  Ronin2  replied to  Kavika @7.2.5    9 months ago
That is not what the Iraq and the Kurds thought. 

Just like the Iranian youth thought that Obama would support them during the Arab Spring. Unless they see boots on the ground coordinating US air cover and targets they should take it they are on their own.  We are not subtle about who we support.

We are leaving them to face Edrogan and Turkey who aim it is to destroy the Syrian Kurds. That is the way we are hanging them out to dry. 

Turkey is a member of NATO; and a US ally. If we can't bring enough political pressure on them to stop them; then we really need to question our entire foreign policy.  Of course it doesn't help that the Kurds want to carve a country out of Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Iran.  Or that the PKK in Turkey are listed as a world terrorist group; as per our own State Department.

https://thekurdishproject.org/kurdistan-map/

https://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm

Kind of makes our support of the Kurds difficult to explain to the countries they are trying to carve up.

I didn't say was our involvement in Vietnam was right or wrong. What I did say was that we left the Montagnards to be slaughtered. And that is exactly what happened.  Many Vietnam vets have tried to get the Montagnards to the US...They exist as a people but not in the numbers there were. 

Our involvement was wrong, period. We supported a weak corrupt government that was doomed to failure (just like we are in Afghanistan and Iraq).  The Montagnards were part of our failed policy. War sucks, there are winners and losers. They backed the losing side.  There was no way we could protect them without fighting in Vietnam forever.

I have never said anything about favoring nation building.

That is what you are talking about. The only way to protect the Kurds is to carve out a safe zone for them in Syria, Turkey, Iraq, and Iran. We are going to declaring war on 4 countries and their allies.  None of them are going to agree to give up territory to the Kurds.  Don't expect any help from our NATO allies or the UN either.

But if we have troops in numerous other countires, South Korea and Germany for example, why is that different then Syria?

South Korea and Germany are our allies and want US troops there. Syria is not an ally and doesn't want US troops there. Keeping them there is an act of war. We have no legal standing in Syria.

 

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.2.7  dave-2693993  replied to  Ronin2 @7.2.6    9 months ago

The problem is, this is another case where "we" have caused the problem. Now we want to wash our hands of it like we had no contribution to how the situation has come about.

Here is an article written in German laying out some background how we got here. Then I will follow with an English translation.

It is pretty clear, we jumped in, unilaterally and put things in motion. Now without any sort of withdrawal talks and negotiations we want to wipe our hands clean and say never mind, after these people laid down their blood to accomplish a mission we put in motion.

This wasn't some kind of wishie/hoppie maybe/maybe not revolutionary kind of thing. This was "we need 30,000 of your troops to battle in combat".

Somewhere along the way we need to become more responsible in situations like these.

In my mind, I am thinking "what happened to diplomacy? Where did that go?"

https://deutsch.rt.com/international/63619-usa-kundigt-kurdische-grenztruppe-in/

International

USA will kurdische Grenztruppen in Syrien: Türkei droht Intervention an

15.01.2018 • 18:50 Uhr
5a5ca2cf0d04034d358b4569.jpg
 
Ein US-Militärkommandant (zweiter von rechts) geht mit kurdischen Kämpfern der Volksverteidigungseinheiten (YPG) am Hauptquartier der YPG bei Malikiya in Syrien, am 25. April 2017 spazieren.
Ankara hat den Plan scharf kritisiert, eine 30.000 Mann starke Truppe aus den kurdisch dominierten SDF-Milizen an der Grenze Syriens zu installieren. Die USA präsentierten einen "unilateralen" Schritt als gemeinsamen Beschluss der US-geführten Koalition.

Mittlerweile hat auch der türkische Präsident Erdoğan angekündigt die Grenztruppe "zu ertränken", bevor sie geboren werden. Die türkische Regierung betrachtet die sogenannte syrische Grenztruppe, die entlang der kurdisch kontrollierten Teile der syrischen Grenze zum Irak und zur Türkei sowie im Euphrat-Tal stationiert sein könnte, als Bedrohung für die nationale Sicherheit, sagte das türkische Außenministerium in der Erklärung am Sonntag.

"Die Türkei ist entschlossen, jegliche Drohungen gegen sie zu eliminieren, und hat alle Möglichkeiten, dies zu tun", heißt es in dem Statement. Weiter wird darin auch "die Hartnäckigkeit der Vereinigten Staaten bei diesem falschen Ansatz", also die Zusammenarbeit mit den kurdischen Milizen verurteilt.

Der Plan der US-geführten Koalition, eine solche Truppe auf der Grundlage der Veteranen der syrischen Demokratischen Kraft (SDF) aufzubauen, die die Hälfte der Rekruten stellen sollen, wurde am Samstag von US Army Col. Thomas Veale, einem Sprecher der US-geführten Koalition, enthüllt.

Auch interessant -   Recep Tayyip Erdoğan kündigt Militäreinsatz in kurdischen Regionen in Syrien an

Allerdings wurde die Türkei, die auch Teil der Koalition gegen den "Islamischen Staat" ist, nach Angaben des Ministeriums vor der Ankündigung nicht konsultiert. Sie warf Washington vor, die Öffentlichkeit in die Irre zu führen und glauben zu lassen, dass die Entscheidung im Namen der Koalition getroffen wurde, während die USA wahrscheinlich eigenmächtig handelten.

"Es ist nicht bekannt, was die Koalitionsmitglieder aus dieser Entscheidung gemacht haben. Die eigenmächtigen Schritte im Namen der Koalition zu erklären, ist ein äußerst falscher Schritt, der dem Kampf mit Daesh (dem arabischen Akronym für IS) schaden könnte", erklärte das Ministerium.

Die Türkei hat die USA aufgefordert, ihre Unterstützung für die kurdischen YPG-Einheiten, einen Eckpfeiler der SDF-Miliz, zurückzuziehen, da Ankara die YPG als verlängerten Arm der Kurdischen Arbeiterpartei (PKK) betrachtet, die in der Türkei als terroristische Organisation eingestuft ist. Im November versprach Washington, seine Unterstützung für "bestimmte Gruppen", die gegen den IS in Syrien kämpfen, nach einem Telefongespräch zwischen dem türkischen Präsidenten Recep Tayyip Erdoğan und dem US-Präsidenten Donald Trump abzuschaffen.

US-Verteidigungsminister James Mattis bestätigte danach, dass Washington aufhören würde, die kurdischen Milizen zu bewaffnen, bemerkte jedoch, dass "Polizeikräfte", die aus der lokalen Bevölkerung bestehen, immer noch gebraucht würden, um "sicherzustellen, dass ISIS nicht zurückkommt".

Die Schaffung der tausend Mann starken Truppe, die auf den Schultern der SDF aufbaut, widerspreche den Zusicherungen Washingtons gegenüber der Türkei, argumentierte das Ministerium. "Die fortgesetzte Zusammenarbeit der USA mit der YPG [US-unterstützte kurdische Volksverteidigungseinheiten], die im Widerspruch zu ihren eigenen [USA] Verpflichtungen steht, gefährdet unsere nationale Sicherheit und die territoriale Integrität Syriens, und das ist inakzeptabel", heißt es in der Erklärung.

Die Präsenz der syrischen Grenztruppe wird eine Herausforderung für die Türkei darstellen, die sie schließlich in die Konfrontation mit den USA vor Ort drängen könnte, sagte Verteidigungsanalyst Ivan Eland gegenüber RT und argumentierte, dass die Aufrechterhaltung der Beziehungen mit der NATO - im übrigen Washington - unter diesen Umständen den zweitrangig sein wird.

"Sie [die Türkei] könnte in noch größere Spannungen mit den USA geraten, als sie bereits sind, und ihre Kräfte könnten in Konflikt mit den von den USA gesponserten Kräften geraten, und vielleicht sogar mit den US-Streitkräften selbst", sagte Eland.

Angesichts der Tatsache, dass die USA die PKK offiziell als eine ausländische Terrororganisation betrachten, ist es "sehr merkwürdig", dass Washington weiterhin syrische YPG-Einheiten unterstützt, sagte Eland und behauptete, dass es tatsächlich enge Verbindungen zwischen den beiden kurdischen Gruppen gebe. "Wenn sie keine Brudergruppen sind, dann sind sie sicherlich Cousins", erklärte er.

Obwohl die Schaffung einer brandneuen SDF-dominierten Grenztruppe den Riss Washingtons mit der Türkei vertieft, steht sie nicht auf der Liste ihrer Hauptanliegen, sagte der Analyst.

"Was die USA dort zu tun versuchen, ist, einen gewissen Einfluss auf die letztendliche Besiedelung Syriens zu nehmen und um das zu tun, wollen sie einige Gebiete kontrollieren und müssen dafür sorgen, dass ihre Verbündeten versorgt und ausgebildet bleiben."

Die Präsenz gut ausgebildeter und bewaffneter Einheiten im Grenzgebiet als Teil des militärischen Erbes der USA in Syrien, so Eland, könne "nicht nur ein Problem mit der Türkei, sondern auch mit der syrischen Regierung und den russischen Streitkräften werden".

Der Plan, die Einheit zu gründen, wurde auch von russischen Beamten verurteilt, die behaupteten, Washington verfolge undurchsichtige Ziele in der Region. "Es gibt eine klare Zweideutigkeit hier. Ich denke, dass es ein offensichtlicher Versuch ist, die Militanten wiederzubeleben, die aus den Nachbarstaaten, nämlich dem Irak, kommen können", sagte der stellvertretende Leiter des Verteidigungsausschusses der Staatsduma, Juri Schwitkin. Die Schaffung einer solchen "Kraft", betonte der Beamte, kann Washington helfen, "ihre geopolitischen Ziele zu erreichen, die Spannungen zu eskalieren und wahrscheinlich den legitim gewählten Präsidenten Baschar al-Assad zu stürzen".

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.2.8  dave-2693993  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.2.7    9 months ago

International
US wants Kurdish border troops in Syria: Turkey threatens intervention
1/15/2018 • 6:50 pm
https://de.rt.com/1d37

5a5ca2cf0d04034d358b4569.jpg

A US military commander (second from right) walks with Kurdish People's Defense Force (YPG) fighters at the YPG headquarters at Malikiya in Syria, on April 25, 2017.
Ankara has sharply criticized the plan to install a 30,000-strong troop of Kurdish-dominated SDF militia on the Syrian border. The US presented a "unilateral" move as a joint decision of the US-led coalition.

In the meantime, Turkish President Erdoğan has also announced that he will "drown" the border troops before they are born. The Turkish government considers the so-called Syrian border force, which could be stationed along the Kurdish-controlled parts of the Syrian border with Iraq and Turkey as well as the Euphrates Valley, as a threat to national security, the Turkish Foreign Ministry said in the statement on Sunday.

"Turkey is determined to eliminate any threats against it and has every opportunity to do so," the statement says. It also condemns "the stubbornness of the United States in this wrong approach," that is, cooperation with the Kurdish militias.

establish the plan of the US-led coalition, such a force based on the veterans of the Syrian Democratic Force (SDF) to make up half of the recruits was posted on Saturday by US Army Col. Thomas Veale, a spokesman for the US-led Coalition, revealed.

Also interesting - Recep Tayyip Erdoğan announces military operation in Kurdish regions in Syria

However, Turkey, which is also part of the coalition against the Islamic State, was not consulted before the announcement, according to the ministry. She accused Washington of misleading the public and suggesting that the decision was taken in the name of the coalition, while the US was likely to act arbitrarily.

"It is not known what the coalition members made of this decision, and explaining the arbitrary steps on behalf of the coalition is a very wrong move that could harm the fight with Daesh (the Arabic acronym for IS)," the ministry said ,

Turkey has called on the US to withdraw its support for the Kurdish YPG units, a cornerstone of the SDF militia, as Ankara sees the YPG as an extension of the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), which is a terrorist organization in Turkey. In November, Washington promised to abolish its support for "certain groups" fighting ISIS in Syria following a telephone conversation between Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and US President Donald Trump.

US Secretary of Defense James Mattis then confirmed that Washington would stop arming the Kurdish militias, but noted that "police forces" made up of local people would still be needed to "ensure that ISIS does not come back".

The creation of a thousand-strong force based on the SDF's shoulders contradicts Washington's assurances with Turkey, the ministry argued. "The continued US cooperation with the YPG [US-supported Kurdish People's Defense Units], which is in conflict with their own [US] commitments, jeopardizes our national security and the territorial integrity of Syria, and that is unacceptable," the statement says ,

The presence of the Syrian border troops will pose a challenge to Turkey, which could eventually push them into confrontation with the US on the ground, said defense analyst Ivan Eland to RT, arguing that maintaining relations with NATO - moreover, Washington - was undermined be of secondary importance to these circumstances.

"It [Turkey] could get into even greater tensions with the US than they already are, and their forces could come into conflict with the US-sponsored forces, and maybe even with the US forces themselves," said Eland.

Given that the US officially views the PKK as a foreign terrorist organization, it is "very strange" that Washington continues to support Syrian YPG units, Eland said, claiming that there are indeed close links between the two Kurdish groups. "If they're not brother groups, they're certainly cousins," he explained.

Although the creation of a brand-new SDF-dominated border troop deepens the rift between Washington and Turkey, it is not on the list of its main concerns, the analyst said.

"What the US is trying to do there is to exert some influence over the eventual colonization of Syria, and in order to do that, they want to control some areas and ensure that their allies are looked after and trained."

The presence of well-trained and armed units in the border area as part of the US military heritage in Syria, Eland said, "could not only be a problem with Turkey, but also with the Syrian government and forces".

The plan to form the unit was also condemned by Russian officials who claimed that Washington was pursuing obscure targets in the region. "There is a clear ambiguity here, and I think it is an obvious attempt to revive the militants who can come from neighboring states, namely Iraq," said deputy head of the State Duma's Defense Committee, Yuri Schwitkin. The creation of such a "force," the official said, can help Washington "achieve its geopolitical goals, escalate tensions and likely overthrow legitimately elected President Bashar al-Assad."

=============================================

That is the situation we have put in place. That is the view of those on the other side of the fence.

If there was ever a time for diplomacy rather than ignoring our own creation, it is now.

JMO.

 
 
 
Kavika
7.2.9  Kavika   replied to  dave-2693993 @7.2.7    9 months ago
Turkey is a member of NATO; and a US ally. If we can't bring enough political pressure on them to stop them; then we really need to question our entire foreign policy.  Of course it doesn't help that the Kurds want to carve a country out of Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Iran.  Or that the PKK in Turkey are listed as a world terrorist group; as per our own State Department

Many of the ISIS terrorist used Turkey as the entrance (land route) to get into the fight. No I don't theink that we can bring enough pressure on Turkey. And your right our entire foreign policy needs to be reviewed. Perhaps honoring that little treaty after WWI would have been the right thing to do..

Yes the PKK in Turkey is listed as a terrorist group. Yet the Kurds in Iraq and Syria are not listed as terrorist groups and we are supporting the Iraq Kurds...Strange isn't it. 

Our involvement was wrong, period. We supported a weak corrupt government that was doomed to failure (just like we are in Afghanistan and Iraq).  The Montagnards were part of our failed policy. War sucks, there are winners and losers. They backed the losing side.  There was no way we could protect them without fighting in Vietnam forever.

I do agree that we should have never been in Vietnam. And yes there are winners and losers but in Vietnam we could have won except for the political side of our government. So we make a promise, we get tired of being there and say ''we're out of here'' and leave those that fought and died for us to be slaughted...Eventually we'll run out of partners and allies. But hey we can always go it alone. 

South Korea and Germany are our allies and want US troops there. Syria is not an ally and doesn't want US troops there. Keeping them there is an act of war. We have no legal standing in Syria.

The governments of Germany and SK want us there, the people not so much. And wasn't our presense into those countries ''nation building''?

 

 

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.2.10  dave-2693993  replied to  Kavika @7.2.9    9 months ago

Kavika, I think you reply was meant for Ronin2.

But, I agree with your thoughts.

 
 
 
Kavika
7.2.11  Kavika   replied to  dave-2693993 @7.2.10    9 months ago

Yes it was, sorry about that dave.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.2.12  dave-2693993  replied to  Kavika @7.2.11    9 months ago

No problems.

I always appreciate your insights Kavika.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.2.13  dave-2693993  replied to  Kavika @7.2.11    9 months ago

This girl should be worrying about her school picture and not about an isis sniper who just tried to take her head off, while, at the same time entertaining the press.

59539003c46188ce618b45c7.png

 

This is the instant right after she had released a round. Very smooth, soft hand and body control on that release.

To the upper left and circled is a pock mark created by the isis sniper. This sniper round came in a split instant after her shot.

There are a million possibilities, but my interpretation is she saw a report of fire in the distance and shot in the face on an incoming round. Then went on to entertain the photog and interviewer.

Will we put any diplomacy in place take care of these people who have done as we asked?

 
 
 
Dulay
7.2.14  Dulay  replied to  Ronin2 @7.2.6    9 months ago
Kind of makes our support of the Kurds difficult to explain to the countries they are trying to carve up.

The Kurds had been promised a homeland since WWI. They got screwed out of it. 

 
 
 
Kavika
7.2.15  Kavika   replied to  Dulay @7.2.14    9 months ago

Sevres Treaty of 1920.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.2.16  dave-2693993  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.2.13    9 months ago

BTW, her eyes closed when the pock mark was formed, not when she pulled the trigger.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
7.2.17  dave-2693993  replied to  dave-2693993 @7.2.16    9 months ago

Yep, the women know how to fight there and are part of the 30,000k and more combat troop allotment.

880x495_329472.jpg

 

Notice they actually take the time to aim, instead of those dumbass iraquis flipping over backwards trying to run off some rounds with their "only dropped once" M60s?

...and yep, plenty of men fight in the Kurdish forces.

Fighters-from-the-Syrian-Democratic-Forc

 

Doing as we asked.

Are we unable to engage in diplomacy at this point?

 
 
 
Ronin2
7.2.18  Ronin2  replied to  Dulay @7.2.14    9 months ago

You want to count the number of people that have been promised a homeland after WWI and were screwed out of it. Might as well put every last person, tribe, clan, group, and faction in the ME on it. 

France and Britain made so many promises to so many people to get them to fight the Germans, Turks in both WWI and WWII that they overlapped what land they promised who. Which is how Israel and Palestine ended up on the same property.  We have been stuck on stupid for a very long time. We allowed France and Britain to carve up the ME because we didn't want to get involved in nation building. Maybe things would have been different if we had gotten involved- maybe not given our track record.

Simple question that no one has been able to answer. Are you willing to go to war with Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Russia, and China? No NATO backup, no UN cover, to give the Kurds a homeland? Willing to risk starting WWIII.

If the answer is yes, there are several other people in the ME that were promised their own homeland- are you willing to carve countries even further to give it to them? Possibly coming into conflict with Saudi Arabia and other allies to do so?

 
 
 
Dulay
7.2.19  Dulay  replied to  Kavika @7.2.15    9 months ago

Right, a 'Treaty' that NONE of the Arabs participated in. It was just Britain and France spitting stuff up between them and the US being complicit.

 
 
 
Dulay
7.2.20  Dulay  replied to  Ronin2 @7.2.18    9 months ago
Which is how Israel and Palestine ended up on the same property.

Israel and Palestine have ALWAYS been, at least in part, the same property. 

Maybe things would have been different if we had gotten involved- maybe not given our track record.

 We WERE involved and just like now, we bailed. Go research Wilson's 12/14 points. 

It's NOT like the boundaries of these countries are age old. They are contrived by Britain and France. The story of Gertrude Bell documents just how most of the lines were drawn. Those lines cut the Kurdish homeland into bits. 

How many others were promised what is a deflection. We are talking about the Kurds. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
7.2.21  Ronin2  replied to  Dulay @7.2.20    9 months ago
It's NOT like the boundaries of these countries are age old.

No, but they exist now. With governments, military, and allies in place to enforce them.  They are even recognized by the UN. Kurdistan is not.

They are contrived by Britain and France. The story of Gertrude Bell documents just how most of the lines were drawn. Those lines cut the Kurdish homeland into bits. 

Where did I say they weren't?  A lot of countries were cut to bits. They didn't base their lines on geography, people; but resources that could be sent home.

How many others were promised what is a deflection. We are talking about the Kurds. 

Right, except when they put together militias and start demanding the exact same thing.

So, if I am reading the majority posting right; you want the US to start a war with Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Russia, and China to give the Kurds a real homeland. Which will give the US a shot at the thing we suck most at nation building, (not to mention the billions of dollars we will waste trying it). Pissing off the Sunni, Shai, and every other faction in the ME in the process. I am sure no terrorists will be born out of that stupidity./S

 
 
 
Dulay
7.2.22  Dulay  replied to  Ronin2 @7.2.21    9 months ago
No, but they exist now. With governments, military, and allies in place to enforce them. They are even recognized by the UN. Kurdistan is not.

Since 1990, 34 countries have been created from countries that had governments, military and allies...

They didn't base their lines on geography, people; but resources that could be sent home.

Actually, the majority of the boundaries WERE based on people. The problem is that some of the decisions were based on WHO Gertrude Bell liked, and WHO she didn't. BTW, she was against a homeland for the Jews in the ME. 

Right, except when they put together militias and start demanding the exact same thing.

Hey, if you want to ignore the historic context, so be it. I for one think it's relevant. 

So, if I am reading the majority posting right;

You're not. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
7.3  Vic Eldred  replied to  XDm9mm @7    9 months ago
I find it interesting that of all the comments posted about President Trump withdrawing our troops from Syria, the vast majority lambasting and chastising him,

Isn't it interesting?  That all these democratic doves suddenly become hawks when Trump wants to bring troops home.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
7.3.1  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.3    9 months ago

trump keeping his promises is what really pisses them off.

the globalists are having apoplectic fits... LOL

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
7.4  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  XDm9mm @7    9 months ago
I did not see ONE from any poster willing to volunteer to go there.  Armchair generals?

Including you, of course.  It's fun watching you smack yourself in the face, XD.  

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
8  Dean Moriarty    9 months ago

When the Kurds start to pay my taxes I’ll care what they want. Until then bring the troops home and out of harms way and quit driving ourselves deeper into debt throwing money away on that shithole. 

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
9  Colour Me Free    9 months ago

American troops should never have been in Syria, the boots on ground and the coalition airstrikes have always been on the edge of breaking International Law since the beginning .. using the 2001 AUMF and claiming that Daesh was an affiliate of AQ .. the former administration skirted the edge of the AUMF - but since AQ has fought against Daesh - the legality becomes even thinner … by declaring Daesh defeated and pulling troops out of Syria .. the 2001 AUMF can no longer be used as a doorway into Syria (perhaps even Iraq?) should everything blow up once again (in my opinion)

What is happening now, the president calling for the removal of troops .. I do not believe has to do with Russia - I think that the current president caved to the threats of a dictator .. that is not Putin ... which is worse in someways, the US is legitimizing Erdogan's threats and potentially allowing Turkey to violate international law by enacting an offensive against the Kurds in Syria ..

I was against any actions taken in Syria without a conversation with Assad, he was willing to talk about getting assistance against Daesh - but Obama would not talk (not an option) .. even to the point of stating he could 'go it alone' (not a direct quote) and formed a coalition to bomb Daesh in Syria.  I realize the administration wanted the whole 'Assad must go' thingy along with Saudi Arabia and others.  

With no communication taking place with the US and their allies, Daesh and rebels were causing Syria government troops to fight on multiple fronts - Assad finally convinces Russia in 2015 to step in and back him up … the US sort of cheers .. Russia is here to assist with Daesh .. but Russia does not follow the rules and the US cannot talk to Putin, because he was a bad man in the Ukraine.... then the US adds boots to the ground … Things have been a cluster **** since 2011 when the 'Arab Spring' sprung a leak and foreign fighters moved into Syria via Turkey

So now it is modern day Syria - Russia has a strong foot hold in the Middle East .. with Russia actually 'keeping' Iran in check on the Southern Syria border … Turkey once again has dictator 'Sultan for Life' with ties and growing closer to Russia …………..    Russia does not have an issue with the Kurds, Putin and Assad still have their hands full in other areas of Syria .. it is Turkey that wants freedom to move in Northern Syria .. once the US pulls out, Erdogan will have that freedom, and can then enact an offensive against the Kurds …  as long as those 2000 troops are among the Kurdish people .. Erdogan cannot annex Northern Syria... (Erdogan thinks Turkey should have Mosul back in the fold as well)

I have been pouring over the events that have lead 'us' to this point in history ... looks like Russia Turkey and Iran are being handed the ME .. exaggeration yes - but not by much...
I have been following events in Syria for a while now (before the Arab Spring was the big thing) and its significance to Turkey, Iran and Russia ... but especially Turkey ....

Remember 'pipelines are people too'.... and Turkey has a sizable military....

Hope everyone has a sweet Christmas Eve - Merry Christmas

 
 
 
r.t..b...
9.1  r.t..b...  replied to  Colour Me Free @9    9 months ago
Hope everyone has a sweet Christmas Eve - Merry Christmas

Great comments regarding Erdogan...if only our administration was as well versed. Merry Christmas, stranger...you have been missed.

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
9.1.1  Colour Me Free  replied to  r.t..b... @9.1    9 months ago

Hello razing … Merry Christmas to you and yours - boyz coming home for Christmas?  It has been snowing all morning here - gotta love the blanket of white .. I will behave and not finish that : )

I have been following Syria and Turkey since 2009 .. there has been a great deal that has unfolded since the days Assad denied Syrian access for a pipeline from Qatar to Turkey .. but one thing has remained consistent .. Erdogan's climb in power .. I have long believe that he desire his own Ottoman Empire - 

Now he is whispering in Trump's ear and the oaf is being sucked right in … Sure, Turkey has Daesh covered - after years of allowing foreign fighters as well as money flow through Turkey to Daesh … ?  yeah, sure he promises to crush Daesh .. right after he crushes the Kurd's and annexes at least parts of Northern Syria? … remains to be seen... now is the time to make a land grab...

 
 
 
XDm9mm
9.2  XDm9mm  replied to  Colour Me Free @9    9 months ago

GM Colour....   

Good analysis.   What most can't seem to grasp is that Erdogan is in his simplistic attempt at re-establishing the Ottoman empire of bygone eras, creating a situation where the primary world powers might in fact need to step in to stop the hoped for expansion.  He's a madman of major proportions with grandiose ideas.

That he has a very powerful and well trained military makes it all the worse.  Of course, that can be slightly mitigated by the knowledge we have of his complete weapons inventory and placement in addition to pretty much all of his military planning as we were and are heavily involved with them since WWII, and we have formidable forces currently stationed there.

He is to the Middle East what Putin is to Europe.  Despots wanting to rebuild what was before their time, but not having the wherewithal to actually accomplish the tasks other than in their own fertile imaginations.

PS:  A very MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and yours.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
9.2.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  XDm9mm @9.2    9 months ago
He is to the Middle East what Putin is to Europe.  Despots wanting to rebuild what was before their time, but not having the wherewithal to actually accomplish the tasks other than in their own fertile imaginations.

I rarely agree with you but on this you're absolutely correct, though I would add that Trump is, whether knowingly or unknowingly, enabling both Putin and Erdogan, providing them with the opportunity to accomplish their authoritarian goals of entrenching their own personal power.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
9.2.2  XDm9mm  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @9.2.1    9 months ago
enabling both Putin and Erdogan,

And what is the alternative?

Obama put us in there in the first place with NO, allow me to repeat that...   NO strategy or direction.   Just flounder around and kill ISIS fighters if and when you find them.

Had Obama ENFORCED HIS 'red line' initially, and not let it blow away in the winds, Russia might in fact not even be in Syria at this time and there would be a western friendly regime in power.  But, I not only remember Obama proclaiming his "RED LINE", I also remember him denying the FACT he said it and claimed it was 'the world' that said it.  I must surmise that Obama was some kind of global puppet mouthing the words they forced him to say.

 
 
 
Texan1211
9.2.3  Texan1211  replied to  XDm9mm @9.2.2    9 months ago
Obama put us in there in the first place with NO, allow me to repeat that... NO strategy or direction. Just flounder around and kill ISIS fighters if and when you find them.

Obama probably thought the JV would just scurry away.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
9.2.4  XDm9mm  replied to  Texan1211 @9.2.3    9 months ago
Obama probably thought the JV would just scurry away.

I think he was hoping that if he ignored them, they would simply disappear...   kind of like that red line.

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
9.2.5  Colour Me Free  replied to  XDm9mm @9.2    9 months ago
He is to the Middle East what Putin is to Europe. Despots wanting to rebuild what was before their time, but not having the wherewithal to actually accomplish the tasks other than in their own fertile imaginations

Erdogan is not looking to rebuild the Ottoman Empire, in my opinion he is seeking his own version .. his power has increased, he has no loyalties, no real allies, he has a multi ended candle burning..  The only individuals that could stop him are the US or Russia .. Russia is busy and the US has been asleep on its feet for a decade .. for Pete's sake Russia has a foot hold in the ME with Russian influence growing.. wow and to think the US funded the likes of Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan to avoid a Russian influence in the ME

I foresee a remapping of the Middle East in the not so distant future .. Turkey, Russia and Iran are being handed the reins, as the US says 'see ya' .. 'we' broke you, but now 'we' are done' .. rinse repeat .. it has been going on for years...  I am not all that worried about Daesh .. Turkey does not need them any longer .. now Erdogan can declare a caliphate ….

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
9.2.6  Colour Me Free  replied to  XDm9mm @9.2.4    9 months ago

In a strange fairness to Obama, he sided with what he considered the oppressed .. he pushed back against colonization - was naïve perhaps in thinking that his words would strike fear in the oppressor because he was the President of the US...?

Obama desired a regime change, that is why Daesh was ignored and called Iraq's problem - he had no use for Maliki … Maliki refused to step down, but as Daesh drew closer to US assets in Erbil … Ta Da Maliki agrees to step down .. Obama saves the day in what appears to be a grand humanitarian gesture in saving the Yazidi...

Alas it was the Syria Kurds saved the Yazidi by opening a path off the mountain ….

 
 
 
1stwarrior
9.2.7  1stwarrior  replied to  Colour Me Free @9.2.5    9 months ago

Russia went through the losing streak for 10 years in Afghanistan and you know damn well that Putin won't do that again.  But, Russia needs oil in massive amounts - more than what their fields can produce - so they'll try to gain the "friendly" power to be able to obtain that needed oil.

Trump realizes that the U. S. is becoming an oil "giant" and that we no longer need the ME for our source.  You'll note that he is bring our troops home from all the ME because we have no need to be there.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
9.2.8  Thrawn 31  replied to  1stwarrior @9.2.7    9 months ago
Trump realizes that the U. S. is becoming an oil "giant"

We always have been. The US has always been one of the biggest producers and had some of the largest known reserves, that is nothing new. 

we no longer need the ME for our source.

...Seriously? You do know just about every drop of oil pumped goes to the global market right? US oil is sold on global markets, Arab oil is sold on global markets, Canadian oil is sold on global markets etc. Even if we kept every drop pumped in this country it is nowhere near enough to meet demand. We still need foreign oil, end of story. 

You'll note that he is bring our troops home from all the ME because we have no need to be there.

What a stupid fucking take. As long as we rely on oil as our primary fuel source we have a BIG interest in what happens in the ME. 

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
9.2.9  Colour Me Free  replied to  1stwarrior @9.2.7    9 months ago

Good morning 1st … I trust you and yours had a sweet and safe Christmas...

But, Russia needs oil in massive amounts - more than what their fields can produce - so they'll try to gain the "friendly" power to be able to obtain that needed oil.

True'ish enough .. yet oil is not why Putin stepped into Syria, and not why Putin is courting Erdogan or even Netanyahu for that matter.  Russia has the opportunity with the US asleep at the switch to regain its standing as a world power once again .. what better way (since being sanctioned by the US) to gain said power than through the Middle East - Europe is then surrounded...   Iran has oil .. Yemen is oozing with oil ..  Putin does not have to play friendly, he is rather well liked in his 'new hood'...….

Nat gas is the drug of choice for the future .. something that Russia, Iran / Qatar have plenty of....

Trump realizes that the U. S. is becoming an oil "giant"

Through fracking?  Please tell me that you do not think that fracking is harmless and that 'we' are not putting our nation at risk by fracking... 'we' have no idea what the future results of fracking shale oil will be … 

You'll note that he is bring our troops home from all the ME because we have no need to be there.

I am happy to have troops come home … but if things are so peaceful in the world .. then bring all 'our' men and women of uniform home - 'we' are no longer needed .. stability has been achieved .. ?  The Arab Spring was a success and Democracy (whatever that is) prevails....

Here is how I see things .. once the US pulls out of Syria, a chain of events will begin, as it did in Iraq when the US pulled all troops (do not get me wrong .. 'we' should never have been in Syria) … but 'we' are there now, and 'our' allies the Kurds are once again being threatened by Turkey (nothing new) .. but what is new is the power that Erdogan now has … I want 'our' men and women home - but is it a wise choice to hang an ally out to dry …. there has been enough genocide in Syria that the world sat back and watched happen .. should it be allowed to continue?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
9.2.10  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Colour Me Free @9.2.9    9 months ago

Great comment Colour! You said exactly how I feel. 

 
 
 
r.t..b...
9.2.11  r.t..b...  replied to  Colour Me Free @9.2.9    9 months ago
but is it a wise choice to hang an ally out to dry ….

This administration's penchant for blatantly disrespecting long standing alliances will be a huge part of his sad legacy. Like it or not, we play an integral role as a stabilizing force around the globe. A role that should be constantly reviewed and adjusted in the most serious of discussions amongst our military, intelligence, and diplomatic branches. His shoot-from-the-hip proclamations are damaging enough here at home, but have the potential to be disastrous abroad. Patience (two more years?) wears thin when there is no indication his behavior will be moderated, particularly with the departures of key officials who understood the precarious balance we have for decades been trying to maintain.

Belated Christmas tidings, friend.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
9.2.12  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  XDm9mm @9.2.2    9 months ago
Had Obama ENFORCED HIS 'red line' initially, and not let it blow away in the winds, Russia might in fact not even be in Syria at this time and there would be a western friendly regime in power.  But, I not only remember Obama proclaiming his "RED LINE", I also remember him denying the FACT he said it and claimed it was 'the world' that said it.  I must surmise that Obama was some kind of global puppet mouthing the words they forced him to say.

I totally agree with that statement. 

5 years ago, I wrote an article on Obama's red line and your analysis was mine, too. I was so angry that he didn't follow through. But now that we are there, and the Kurds backed us up (again) and we know that if both Russia and Turkey are happy at the thought of us moving out, that it can't be good for us and totally unfair to the Kurds who helped out guys when they needed it, we need to stay a little longer and finish the job.  

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
9.2.13  Colour Me Free  replied to  r.t..b... @9.2.11    9 months ago
Patience (two more years?) wears thin when there is no indication his behavior will be moderated, particularly with the departures of key officials who understood the precarious balance we have for decades been trying to maintain.

Hello razing .. Hope yesterday was a wonderful day  : )

Mattis was the key, his presence impacted the military and the nation - an individual that was trusted and respected - now POOF!

In the beginning Trump did not seem to have an interest in micromanaging the actions of 'his' generals - allowing the military to make decisions (seemingly without the politics of old getting involved) .. what changed, what makes him think that he can now 'go it alone'....?

Perhaps the US needs a separate foreign policy president?  the last couple have really sucked at it.....

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
9.2.14  Colour Me Free  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @9.2.12    9 months ago
But now that we are there, and the Kurds backed us up (again) and we know that if both Russia and Turkey are happy at the thought of us moving out, that it can't be good for us and totally unfair to the Kurds who helped out guys when they needed it, we need to stay a little longer and finish the job.

Agreed .. Daesh may be out of sight, sorta out of mind - but 'our true' allies (the Kurd's) have been treated horribly .. 'we' did not even arm them with current weaponry until Trump came into office .. he was not afraid to piss off Turkey then .. now?

 
 
 
r.t..b...
9.2.15  r.t..b...  replied to  Colour Me Free @9.2.13    9 months ago
what changed, what makes him think that he can now 'go it alone'....?

A distraction from his troubles at home? As he circles the wagons with fewer and fewer voices of reason to temper his tantrums, the troubles in Syria are beyond his capabilities. Unfortunately, he has no concept of the ramifications of his actions. As with many things, let us hope he abandons his policy-by-tweet agenda, and puts it back in the hands of those who have a level of competency in understanding the region...but those numbers grow more scarce by the day.

Boyz spending the holidays together in NYC...living through their shared adventures. It was pretty, pretty, good.

 
 
 
Ronin2
9.2.16  Ronin2  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @9.2.12    9 months ago
we need to stay a little longer and finish the job.  

What is the job exactly?

If it is to remove ISIS/ISIL- then it is time to go. What is left of that faction in Syria can be mopped up by the Kurds, "moderate" Sunni rebels that we supported/trained, and Syria, Russia, China, Iran.

If it is to remove Assad; then that ship sailed as soon as Russian, Chinese, and Iranian forces set foot in Syria. Just how far are those who believe we need to support the Kurds willing to take this? If redrawing the ME map to include Kurdistan is the answer is starting WWIII worth it?  It will make for some strange allies when Turkey sides with Russia, China, Iran, Iraq, and Syria. Wonder how much of Syria they will ask for, and be given, in return.

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
9.2.17  Colour Me Free  replied to  r.t..b... @9.2.15    9 months ago
A distraction from his troubles at home? As he circles the wagons with fewer and fewer voices of reason to temper his tantrums, the troubles in Syria are beyond his capabilities.

A distraction from troubles at home .. perhaps .. but Trump was talked out of pulling troops out of Syria in April, and did campaign on removing the troops from Syria - so there is wiggle room there as to whether or not this is a distraction...

What has been allowed to happen in Syria, and now with Russia entrenched with influence rising .. Syria is beyond any ones capabilities - the damage has been done .. Obama made choices that I did not agree with, and still do not - and Trump is following closely behind him .. but what is happening now is not about Syria as much as it is about the Kurds of Syria 'WE' armed them, they fought for 'US' ……………….. Syria is a foregone conclusion, partially because of US inaction … Northern Syria is in play 'when' US troops exit … I hate to say it, but 'we' owe the Kurds in Syria and Iraq a debt of gratitude that requires our continued support..

Sorry razing .. I know I am preaching to the converted - but I am so frustrated by what I am seeing unfold - have been seeing unfold since 2009, that I think if I keep repeating myself ……………………… something will change... Yes I am still a dreamer and have my own Dragon!

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
9.2.18  Colour Me Free  replied to  r.t..b... @9.2.15    9 months ago
Boyz spending the holidays together in NYC...living through their shared adventures. It was pretty, pretty, good.

Excellent .. I must 'assume' that you all video chat to feel more together?

(Not so) lil man and I had company - the neighbor boy is home for the Holidays .. Toad (yes I nicknamed him Toad when he was in 3rd grade and it stuck .. Ooops : ) hung out most of the day here with us .. my oldest even hung out for an hour'ish close to 2 … I marked it on my calendar : )

 
 
 
r.t..b...
9.2.19  r.t..b...  replied to  Colour Me Free @9.2.18    9 months ago
you all video chat to feel more together?

Indeed we did...prepared our traditional Christmas Eve dinner (albeit 2500 miles apart) while laughing and chatting and closed with a celebratory toast. The next best thing. Glad you could actually 'face' time with yours and with friends. Precious times, these.

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
9.2.20  Colour Me Free  replied to  r.t..b... @9.2.19    9 months ago
Precious times, these.

Sweet indeed....

 
 
 
MUVA
9.2.21  MUVA  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @9.2.12    9 months ago

Have you always felt this way about the Kurd's because it were not for GW Bush the Kurd's would have been eliminated by now either by Saddam or a combination of Turkey ,Iraq and Syria.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
9.2.22  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @9.2.12    9 months ago

Obama's red lines were nothing more than red water color painted in a surf line...

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
9.2.23  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Ronin2 @9.2.16    9 months ago
If it is to remove ISIS/ISIL- then it is time to go. What is left of that faction in Syria can be mopped up by the Kurds, "moderate" Sunni rebels that we supported/trained, and Syria, Russia, China, Iran.

First of all, why would you think that Syria would get rid of the rest of Isis? And why would the Kurds after we screwed them over yet again?

If it is to remove Assad; then that ship sailed as soon as Russian, Chinese, and Iranian forces set foot in Syria. 

Yet we managed to get rid of both Sadam and Bin Laden.. while being protected. Amazing how we did that. 

Leaving Assad in power is one of the worst things we could do. It emboldens dictators world over. 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
9.3  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Colour Me Free @9    9 months ago

Merry Christmas Colour Me!

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
9.3.1  Colour Me Free  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @9.3    9 months ago

ED! … Hope your Christmas was a good one, I know it is a rough time of year .. I am sorry I did not pop in yesterday..

Peace my friend...

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
9.3.2  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Colour Me Free @9.3.1    9 months ago

No problem dear lady! My Christmas's lately consist of keeping up the pretense for the benefit of my 8 year old granddaughter. I am sure I will truly celebrate one day, just not ready yet. But I sincerely hope you had a joyous Christmas I wish you a happy and prosperous New Year.

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
9.3.3  Colour Me Free  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @9.3.2    9 months ago

Thank you Ed, I wish you the same joy and prosperity ...

My mom passed 9 years ago, and this is the first Christmas that I put up a tree, actually wrapped presents and enjoyed myself doing so .. there are no timelines when it comes to healing - but please know kind sir that you are in my thoughts .....

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
10  Thrawn 31    9 months ago

I hate this, the Kurds are the only group I actually like in the region. I was actually hoping that at the end of it all they would get their own independent country. A foolish hope I know, but now it looks to everyone like we just used their blood and decided to completely fuck them over just because. And thanks to Trump, that's exactly what we did. 

 
 
 
dave-2693993
10.1  dave-2693993  replied to  Thrawn 31 @10    9 months ago
we just used their blood and decided to completely fuck them over just because. And thanks to Trump, that's exactly what we did. 

Yes.

 
 
 
Ronin2
10.2  Ronin2  replied to  Thrawn 31 @10    9 months ago

The only way there will ever be a Kurdistan is to start an all out war- with Russia and China in Syria it will quickly become a world war. Want to lay odds on Russia, China, Iran, Turkey, and Syria backing down?

It would also test the resolve of our so called NATO allies. Fighting third world dictatorships is one thing. WWIII is another.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
11  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh    9 months ago

Finally a US president breaks ranks from the Neocons and pulls troops. I'm a little surprised some that claim to be liberals disagree with the decision.  I guess that's how you identify someone who poses as a liberal but really is a rank and file democrat/neocon. 

Time to get out of Afghanistan and Iraq now.

Since WWII history shows our efforts on foreign soil and nation building projects always fail. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
11.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @11    9 months ago
I'm a little surprised some that claim to be liberals disagree with the decision.  I guess that's how you identify someone who poses as a liberal but really is a rank and file democrat/neocon. 

I can't speak for the liberals but as an independent, I don't see intervention, when truely needed being the sole definition of a neocon. btw.. neocon is defined as:

Aneoconis someone who agrees politically with conservative ideas including free market capitalism. Moderate conservatives tend to clash withneoconson issues of foreign policy. Faith in the free market is one important belief of neocons, but even more important is their support of interventionism. In other words, neocons support actively promoting democracy around the world, even if that means using military force.Neoconis short forneoconservative, which adds theneo-, or "new," prefix toconservative. The original neocons abandoned their formerly leftist ideals in the late 1960s and early 1970s

It has nada to do with the Dems, who they broke away from in the 1970's

Since WWII history shows our efforts on foreign soil and nation building projects always fail. 

I am not in favor of nation building. Neither is Russia or Turkey. That is what this is all about. 

 
 
 
Kavika
12  Kavika     9 months ago
Finally a US president breaks ranks from the Neocons and pulls troops. I'm a little surprised some that claim to be liberals disagree with the decision.  I guess that's how you identify someone who poses as a liberal but really is a rank and file democrat/neocon. 

So WTF do you think I am, BF....Time for you to look at little closer at the comments being made, it's about hanging the Kurds out to dry...

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
12.1  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Kavika @12    9 months ago

This picture sums up everything ever wrong with US foreign policy and intervention. John McCain posing with Al Queda group that targeted western journalists, kidnapped them for ransom. We armed these scumbags to fight Assad.

Disgusting!  

384

 
 
 
Kavika
12.1.1  Kavika   replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @12.1    9 months ago

We are talking about the Kurds BF, not Al Queda.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
12.1.2  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Kavika @12.1.1    9 months ago

That doesn't change the fact that we are still arming Assad resistance groups in Syria. Two in that picture are now ISIS most wanted. Arming our enemy, the enemy of the Kurds? It's still happening. 

No excuse for that. Explain how that helps the kurds?

 
 
 
dave-2693993
12.1.3  dave-2693993  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @12.1.2    9 months ago

Yes, that is wrong.

What does that have to do with hanging the Kurds out to dry?

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
12.1.4  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @12.1.2    9 months ago
Two in that picture are now ISIS most wanted.

Considering the source, that claim needs independent confirmation.  IOW, prove it or remove it. 

 
 
 
Kavika
12.1.5  Kavika   replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @12.1.2    9 months ago
No excuse for that. Explain how that helps the kurds?

Perhaps it would be better for you to explain how abandoning the Kurds is in their best interest, BF.

You are aware, are you not, that the Kurds are a resistance group fighting Assad. 

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
12.1.6  Dean Moriarty  replied to  Kavika @12.1.5    9 months ago

The war is almost over Assad has won they are wasting their time and our money. 

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
12.1.7  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Dean Moriarty @12.1.6    9 months ago

Assad is also backed by the entire Russian army, there can be no victory without a third world war in which would risk global annihilation so you are correct.

Time to move on, hang our heads in shame and cut our loses. It was a lose lose from the beginning.  Assad will finish off the Kurds and we can't do a thing about it.

For all that complain about government spending on healthcare, education and providing for the poor, we could have actually used that money for something useful.

Can someone post a cost from the Syrian failure? I bet it's huge!

 
 
 
dave-2693993
12.1.8  dave-2693993  replied to  Dean Moriarty @12.1.6    9 months ago

If you don't mind, let me ask this question:

At the end of war, what do we do with our allies after cessation?

 
 
 
Kavika
12.1.9  Kavika   replied to  Dean Moriarty @12.1.6    9 months ago

I knew that I could depend on you to complain about your/our money...That is the most important thing in your world Dean....Whine, whine and more whining about your taxes...LMAO. 

 
 
 
dave-2693993
12.1.10  dave-2693993  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @12.1.7    9 months ago
Assad will finish off the Kurds and we can't do a thing about it.

Why do you say that?

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
12.1.11  Dean Moriarty  replied to  dave-2693993 @12.1.8    9 months ago

We return to what our military is supposed to do defend our borders and leave them to carry their own weight. We free ourselves from their dead weight. 

 
 
 
Kavika
12.1.12  Kavika   replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @12.1.7    9 months ago
Assad is also backed by the entire Russian army, there can be no victory without a third world war in which would risk global annihilation so you are correct.

That is BS, BF. Are you aware that a couple of months ago U.S. troops killed 200 Russian milita in Syria and did it start WWIII.

The Kurds have more to fear from our supposed Ally, Turkey then from the Russians. 

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
12.1.13  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @12.1.7    9 months ago
Assad will finish off the Kurds and we can't do a thing about it.

And ISIS will have no resistance to reclaim all the territory that's been taken away.  The Bush/Cheney clusterf**k that was Iraq will have reached "perfection."

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
12.1.14  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Kavika @12.1.12    9 months ago

Those were private mercenaries.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
12.1.15  dave-2693993  replied to  Dean Moriarty @12.1.11    9 months ago
We free ourselves from their dead weight. 

I agree with the basic thought of how we manage our National Defense, but, how can we call someone "dead weight" when in fact they took on a job at our behest that we, in fact, were unwilling to do?

 
 
 
dave-2693993
12.1.16  dave-2693993  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @12.1.14    9 months ago
Those were private mercenaries.

Which has been proven as Russian bs in the conflict of eastern Ukraine.

You know, Russian regulars "on vacation"...need a bridge?

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
12.1.17  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @12.1.14    9 months ago

You haven't provided any proof for your claim about the photo in your comment 12.1.   I'll even give you the rest of the day and if you don't come up with it, we'll consider that claim a despicable lie. 

 
 
 
Kavika
12.1.18  Kavika   replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @12.1.14    9 months ago

LOL, just like the ''private mercenaries'' in the Ukraine.

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
12.1.19  Colour Me Free  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @12.1.7    9 months ago
Assad will finish off the Kurds and we can't do a thing about it.

Assad?  It is Erdogan that is the issue … Assad is busy, the Kurd's are the last thing on his mind, as is Northern Syria (which is up for 'grabs' so to speak) however, as long as the US remains, Turkey does not have the freedom to do in Northern Syria as they please (I foresee an annexation, but that is speculation based on current events)  Erdogan is threatening an offensive on the Kurd's and promises to 'take care of Daesh' if only US troops would leave...  this would be the same Erdogan that allowed foreign fighters and money to flow through Turkey to Daesh...

Will the US sanction Turkey / Erdogan if he annexes Northern Syria and purges the Kurd's?  Will Erdogan become the outcast that Putin is .. will NATO kick Turkey to the curb for violating International Law …?

As to cost … hard to say, but I am thinking you can rest assured that the money allocated to Syria will never be seen again .. it has become part of military operating cost … I do not think much of that money made it to Syria to begin with!

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
12.1.20  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  dave-2693993 @12.1.3    9 months ago
Yes, that is wrong. What does that have to do with hanging the Kurds out to dry?

Exactly!

 
 
 
Ronin2
12.1.21  Ronin2  replied to  Kavika @12.1.12    9 months ago

Please stop calling them Russian militia. They were not a part of the regular Russian military- they were mercenaries. There is a huge difference in ignoring the death of 200 private Russian paid for mercs- and ignoring an attack on real Russian forces.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/world/middleeast/american-commandos-russian-mercenaries-syria.html

It was the opening salvo in a nearly four-hour assault in February by around 500 pro-Syrian government forces — including Russian mercenaries — that threatened to inflame already-simmering tensions between Washington and Moscow.

In the end, 200 to 300 of the attacking fighters were killed. The others retreated under merciless airstrikes from the United States, returning later to retrieve their battlefield dead. None of the Americans at the small outpost in eastern Syria — about 40 by the end of the firefight — were harmed.

The details of the Feb. 7 firefight were gleaned from interviews and documents newly obtained by The New York Times. They provide the Pentagon’s first public on-the-ground accounting of one of the single bloodiest battles the American military has faced in Syria since deploying to fight the Islamic State.

You notice no Russian fighters coming to provide air cover for the forces? The Mercs were there to give a backbone to the Syrian government forces- which shows what Putin thinks of them. They were expendable. Don't expect the same thing in a real war.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
12.1.22  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @12.1    9 months ago

I found where you got that photo. It came from here:

https://newspunch.com/mccain-posing-al-qaeda-isis/

It is a right wing site that offers no proof that these men worked with Isis or  Al Queda. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
12.1.23  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Colour Me Free @12.1.19    9 months ago

Exactly Color. 

In fact, this is a dream situation for the Turks. But then again, we seem to always give them dream situations... and turn a blind eye to the fact that they have all but liquidated every Christian from their country. Somehow we stomach their form of Islamic regime. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
12.1.24  Split Personality  replied to  Ronin2 @12.1.21    9 months ago

Like the Russian mercenaries captured in Ukraine who were "on leave" from their regular Russian Army units?

That kind of mercenary with appropriate military communication gear and all the correct frequencies?

The Kremlin said much the same about the nature of the forces in Crimea and eastern Ukraine in 2014, however, claiming they were volunteers and men on vacation, only to admit later that they were regular soldiers. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/13/world/europe/russia-syria-dead.html

No it was a fuck up of major proportions which the Russian Air Wing in Syria wouldn't dare escalate into something monumental.

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
12.1.25  Colour Me Free  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @12.1.23    9 months ago
Somehow we stomach their form of Islamic regime. 

Turkey is prime real estate to NATO and the US even with Erdogan's returning to the dark ages of sectarianism in Turkey … Saudi Arabia gets away with it after all...…  It does not hurt that Turkey has the 2nd largest military force in NATO either

… No one know what or whose side he is on, but Erdogan got away with purging teachers, judges, police, military and journalists (I am sure there are some I have missed) after the 'alleged coup' attempt .. I personally do not believe there was a actual coup attempt, more like an event of Erdogan's making - he has gained so much power since that fatal day...

 
 
 
dave-2693993
12.1.26  dave-2693993  replied to  Split Personality @12.1.24    9 months ago
Like the Russian mercenaries captured in Ukraine who were "on leave" from their regular Russian Army units?

Investigators have found an actual Russian cemetery of these "vacationers" and tracked down their mournful families. 

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
12.1.27  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @12.1.17    9 months ago

Well John McCain did say he didn't mean to do it. Chalk that up with all your other demands for links. BTW which i always provide. LOL

Ole Jihad McCain Neocon scumbag extraordinaire 

The photograph, released by Mr McCain's office, shows the US senator standing with a group of rebels during his highly-publicised trip to   Syria  this week.

Two of the men in the image are Mohamed Nour and Abu Ibrahim, claimed Lebanese newspaper The Daily Star. The men are described as being part of a group who kidnapped 11 Shias last year.

They were identified by one of the kidnap victims, Anwar Ibrahim, who along with one other hostage has since been freed, the Star said. Negotiations over the freedom of the other nine are still ongoing.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10089697/John-McCain-denies-he-knowingly-posed-with-with-rebel-kidnappers-in-Syria.html

 
 
 
Kavika
12.1.28  Kavika   replied to  Ronin2 @12.1.21    9 months ago
You notice no Russian fighters coming to provide air cover for the forces? The Mercs were there to give a backbone to the Syrian government forces- which shows what Putin thinks of them. They were expendable. Don't expect the same thing in a real war.

Of course there was no Russia air cover...They would have been attacking US Forces. Russian isn't stupid enough to do that. They would have been engaging US troops on the ground or US air power. 

They are mercenaries and paid for and supported by the Russia's .....You can make all the distintions you want but there is no escaping who they were, why they were there, and what they did. 

Shades of the Ukraine.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
12.1.29  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @12.1    9 months ago
This picture sums up everything ever wrong with US foreign policy and intervention. John McCain posing with Al Queda group that targeted western journalists, kidnapped them for ransom. We armed these scumbags to fight Assad. Disgusting!  

So, it's official.  The above comment is yet another lie from this NTer and, as such, should be removed.  Disgusting!  doesn't even begin to describe this pattern of behavior.  

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
12.1.30  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @12.1.27    9 months ago

Thanks for the link that  that makes no mention or suggestion at all that these two men, whatever their names are, were members of Al Qaeda as you falsely claimed.  In fact, there's no mention whatsoever in the article of Al Qaeda. So, thanks for providing evidence that proves your allegation was a lie.  

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
12.1.31  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @12.1.30    9 months ago

512

Jihad John McCain!

Happy New Year Homeslice!

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
12.1.32  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @12.1.31    9 months ago

Started out as a lie and you're just making it a bigger one with each new pathetic attempt to pretend otherwise.  

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
12.1.33  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @12.1.32    9 months ago

The Unholy alliance of the liberal and the Neocon is one of the strangest we've seen.

who would a thought?

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
12.1.34  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @12.1.33    9 months ago
The Unholy alliance of the liberal and the Neocon is one of the strangest we've seen. who would a thought?

Switching from the lie to the tired old extreme rightwing gobbledygook.   Good move jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Split Personality
12.1.35  Split Personality  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @12.1.31    9 months ago

Sad.   Repeating and spreading a liberal conspiracy campaign against a Conservative ( now deceased ) Senator from 2013 . . .

Already debunked by multiple sources over the last 5 years, the most anyone can claim is that the Senator's team may have allowed some questionable types into the phots's, but they ( our allies) were all vouching for one another.

Mr. Soltz’s emailed statement at the time to The Arizona Republic: “When we say he took photos with ISIS fighters, we mean that he took photos with representatives of forces that he supported, many of which later became ISIS. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/12/world/middleeast/try-as-he-may-john-mccain-cant-shake-falsehoods-about-ties-to-isis.html

M Nour was identified as a photographer, friendly with kidnappers, reportedly identified by one of the kidnapping victims. ( Could not be confirmed by The Telegraph )

Today, Mr McCain's office said that no one who met with the senator identified themselves by those names. "None of the individuals the senator planned to meet with was named Mohamad Nour or Abu Ibrahim," a spokesman said. "A number of other Syrian commanders joined the meeting, but none of them identified himself as Mohamad Nour or Abu Ibrahim."

The spokesman said that if the man in the photograph turned out to be Nour it would be "regrettable": "If the individual photographed with Senator McCain is in fact Mohamed Nour, that is regrettable. But it would be ludicrous to suggest that the senator in any way condones the kidnapping of Lebanese Shia pilgrims or has any communication with those responsible. Senator McCain condemns such heinous actions in the strongest possible terms."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10089697/John-McCain-denies-he-knowingly-posed-with-with-rebel-kidnappers-in-Syria.html

Abu Bakr Al Baghadi is not in the picture.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/john-mccain-meets-isis-leader/

Abu Mosa,  also misidentified, unless he somehow got younger in 2014  ( unless all bearded Muslim men look alike )

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/21/islamic-state-press-officer-who-taunted-white-hous/

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
13  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו    9 months ago

Being reported this morning that Scumbag is yet again going limp on this promise to summarily withdraw from Syria (when will his toadies get tired of so much "winning," we wonder?) as well as on making  WALL, er, I mean "decorative steel-slat fence" funding the sine qua non for stopping the shutdown.  Of course, this comes from Little Lord Lindsey so it could be very well either his usual BS or that he's yet again being played by Scumbag.  

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
15  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו    9 months ago

As usual, the Scumbag toadies of today (just as they did when they were Bush toadies in the aftermath of Iraq Catastrophe) are trying lay blame anywhere but at their own feet for supporting that horrendous disaster.  And, of course, they're doing it by lying with half-truths about why Obama pulled troops out of Iraq.  As usual, they leave out the crucial element that the draw down plan was drawn up by the Bush/Cheney Criminal Enterprise in the first place and left it a mess for Obama to sort out.  Then they lie that Obama rushed through it to get troops out when in fact there were prolonged negotiations with the (laughingly called) government of Iraq to keep US troops in Iraq longer but that government refused to agree to essential safety agreements for those troops, namely guarantees of immunity under Iraqi law.  One can only imagine how Obama-hating heads would have exploded if he'd agreed to leave troops in Iraq under those conditions if US troops had been arrested by Iraqi police.   But, it's the usual m.o. for these "types" to support the people who create these massive clusterf***s (military and economic) and attack the ones who have to clean up those messes.  Of course, it will be the same as ever should a Dem be elected to the presidency in 2020.  

 
 
 
MUVA
15.1  MUVA  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @15    9 months ago

What you posted is a lie Obama didn't even try to negotiate a new SOFA agreement it is a lie.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
15.1.1  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  MUVA @15.1    8 months ago
What you posted is a lie Obama didn't even try to negotiate a new SOFA agreement it is a lie.

That lie is so blatant and ridiculous I think you may have reached the top of your lie-game.  Just because you want so hard to believe a lie it doesn't make it true.  

 
 
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