35-Time Racing Champion Quits Over Transgender Athletes Dominating Her Sport - America Insider

And some say there is nothing wrong with this bullshit.........................Misogyny?

"The end of Women's sports," a third person commented.

Ridiculous.

What else do you call it when biological men are winning competitions only meant for women?

Why are leftists trying to replace women with men?

Why are leftists trying to replace women with men?

I understand to most liberal males, a female with balls is far more wanted than a real woman.

I think transwomen should not participate in women's sports. 

I think there would be a legal can of worms that these governing bodies dont want to deal with. There are scientific standards that have to be met for a "man" to be approved to compete in female sports. Trans athletes meet those standards or they wouldnt be allowed. Unless and until those standards are changed, it will likely be illegal to prevent trans from competing. 

In case you missed it- the standards are constantly changing and very by sport, and the governing body.

It is just woke idiots that can't see men can take hormonal therapy to suppress their testosterone some, and have all the operations they want to give the appearance of being female; but they are still males. The ones that are dominating female sports don't lose their height; build to carry more muscle mass; and if they miss a few treatments their testosterone increases (who needs steroids?)

The Olympics have banned men from competing as women- every other sports entity should as well. 

aljazeera .

Transgender women will no longer be allowed to compete in female track and field events regardless of their levels of testosterone, World Athletics President Sebastian Coe says.

No female transgender athlete who had gone through male puberty would be permitted to compete in female world ranking competitions from March 31, Coe said.

Speaking after a meeting of the global track and field federation’s decision-making body on Thursday, Coe said World Athletics had consulted with stakeholders, including 40 national federations, the International Olympic Committee and trans groups about the issue of transgender athletes.

“The majority of those consulted stated that transgender athletes should not be competing in the female category,” he said.

“Many believe there is insufficient evidence that transwomen do not retain advantage over biological women and want more evidence that any physical advantages have been ameliorated before they are willing to consider an option for inclusion into the female category.”

He added: “The judgement we took … was, I believe, in the best interests of our sport.”

There are scientific standards that have to be met for a "man" to be approved to compete in female sports. Trans athletes meet those standards or they wouldnt be allowed.

There is nothing scientific about any such standards anywhere on Earth. They are entirely arbitrary. 

The descriptor “scientific” is used so that regular people won’t dispute it. People need to think a little about what it is that makes a thing “scientific.” These standards involve blood tests and chemical measurements, therefore they’re scientific? Somebody with a science degree proposed the standard, therefore it’s scientific?

There is a simple point to competitive rules. They are supposed to create a fair competition for everyone involved. Sports are segregated into male and female because everyone understands that males competing against females is inherently unfair. 

Look at the existing standards we have for doping. In most organizations - male or female - if an athlete takes steroids at all, they are disqualified. Critically: If a cis woman injected testosterone to raise her levels to what is allowed for a trans woman - or at all - she would be disqualified.

***

A scientific standard should protect the goal of fairness.

The truth is no scientific work has been done to settle on the various standards imposed by athletic organizations. Where is the actual science? Where is the double blind study exploring actual competitive outcomes with various levels of hormones in multiple trans female athletes versus control groups of cis-women?

I think everyone understands no such work is being done. It’s probably impossible.

So these organizations just invent some numbers - X-level of testosterone for Y-amount of time - and tell themselves they have made a scientific standard. But it’s not scientific. At all.

This seems to be making the point that some male advantages are very long-lasting, and even permanent. I totally agree.

Additionally, let me take a look at something that appears "scientific":

The current IOC regulations allow transwomen athletes to compete if testosterone levels have been lowered to <10 nmol/L for 12 months prior to competition.

10 nmol/L.

The typical testosterone range for healthy adult women ranges from 0.5 nmol/L to 2.4 nmol/L. Even that 2.4 number - which exists at the extreme end of the "normal" spectrum - would peak around age 18 and decline quickly after that.

That means the allowed level of testosterone for a transitioning athlete is four times what would one would expect in an exceptional cis woman. Four times!

Now, that won't make her four times as strong. That's not how it works. But it will make it substantially easier for the trans athlete to build or maintain muscle - and shed fat - than it would be for a cis woman.

Even worse, if a cis woman wanted to take testosterone supplements to raise her own levels to 10 nmol/L, she would be disqualified for cheating.

This strikes me as the epitome of "unfair advantage." 

It does appear that fairness isn't really the goal of the inclusion of transgenders in sports.

Yeah. And that’s insane. Other than just organizing the event itself, fair play should be the most basic mission of any athletic organization.

I want to stipulate one thing, when I write "all matters being equal/things be equal" I am fully aware that sometimes professionals take different tacts on the data and research they publish. So, I can not vouch for the consensus of the data I posted. Again, all things being equal. It's a powerful statement about this issue.

One more thing just crossed my 'wire': CNN is reporting a interview will take place tonight about a female athlete who has just broken MICHAEL PHELPS record from a prior swimming competition. Not necessarily the same thing, but sure will make for interesting thoughts going forward.

The record is about number of medals won, not about swimming the same race in a similar time. But who knows? Maybe some day . . . 

Oh! Okay, gotcha. I didn't see the full story. Thanks!

There are scientific standards that have to be met for a "man" to be approved to compete in female sports

Science says a man is born with an XY chromosome pair. He also has testicles and a scrotum. He has a penis. Just because someone gets the latter parts surgically removed and grows breasts does not in any way shape or form make him a woman. 

It may not be long until there are enough trans athletes to form their own divisions to compete solely against one another.  I wish I could understand the kind of torment that must go through a human mind to want to do this to themself.  I see trans people everywhere now, and sometimes it’s just so obvious.  I ordered food recently at a turnpike rest stop from a flat chested young lady who was wearing excessive makeup and jewelry, and it only made her look like Tootsie.  Then there’s the gender bending head scratchers.  The other day at a winery a girl was walking in front of me, clearly walked like a woman, female mannerisms, dressed in pink ladies clothing, and when she sat down I saw she had a well groomed mustache.  And I say this as a step parent of a trans man.  It’s not my business and I hold nothing against them, I just don’t get it.

I dont get it either.  I am all for leaving these people alone to live their lives as they see fit, but i also think this society has fallen into a mode of over emphasizing trans people and their struggles. I think we need a little "benign neglect". 

There are thousands of female athletes for every one trans athlete. The threat to women's sports in general is outlandishly overblown. 

This country has too many folks that are hell bent on enforcing conformity.  Oddly, most of them are also hell bent on telling the gub’mint to stop telling them how to live.

Do you think that trans woman who went thru puberty as a male have an advantage over woman that went thru puberty as a female?

Not to the women who have worked their butts off to achieve in a sport that are now getting smoked by biological men competing against them.

One wonders John.    What you would say to a daughter who worked hard to get good in a sport only to come home crying because she was beat by a boy.

Try telling it to a woman who got beat by a man after she has trained for years in her sport.

She came in 4th on her last race and beat out another transgender competitor who came in 5th.  Should we disqualify the women who came in second too? 

Lol, you beat me to it

Science only matters to that group when it can be manipulated to advance one of their narratives du jour.

"The threat to women's sports in general is outlandishly overblown."

Really? It seems like a lot of these phony females have been making the headlines lately. The leftist media seems to worship them. 

 More and more governing bodies of several sports are calling a halt to this attempt by mentally fucked up males, many of whom "transitioned" after puberty, of dominating women's sports at all levels. The "open" category is the proper place for these misfits.

It’s not ok just because the trans athlete didn’t win. It’s still wrong. 

Look at the baseball players caught up in the steroid scandals of 20 years ago. Some of them argued that they weren’t breaking the rules or the law. They argued that they still needed to know how to throw a ball or swing a bat. 

And no, Barry Bonds didn’t hit a home run every time he was up. He didn’t win the World Series every year.

But we all understand it was wrong. We all understand it was unfair. And that’s why none of those assholes are in the Hall of Fame.

ALL men pretending to be women should be banned from competing as women.

I agree, but that isn't the subject of the article.

It’s still wrong. 

Why? Transwomen loose too much muscle mass to compete in men's bicycling. I don't know the numbers specifically for bicycling, but in track men who compete place in the same percentile in women's sports after they transition. So if they were top 10 percent as a man in men's track they will place in the top 10 percent in women's after they transition. I don't see that as an unfair advantage, but each sport should be doing it's own analyst on real data and not on feels. 

The woman in the article is one of those entitled evangelicals with a baked in victimhood complex. The cis woman who came in second didn't cry she didn't make first...

It kind of is, really.

It's not. I don't care what the religious bigot had to say when she lost. The sport isn't going to miss her.

Generally I stay out of that conversation because I’m not a competitive person and watch very little sports, but I’d probably say yes to that.  I think it’s twisted how much passion people have for athletes and sports.  I’ll have fun casually playing sports, but I just wasn’t born with the gene that generates hyper excitement over watching competition.  I even felt kinda stupid cheering my kids on with all the other parents, knowing that if I were in their shoes I’d be thinking “would you people shut the fuck up so I can focus?!”

Please link why you call her a religious bigot.

The very first thing on this chick's various online bios is 'Follower of God' = religious. Her use of language saying she was beat by 'male riders' instead of transgender women = bigot. Done and done.

If she wants to call men pretending to be women men, that doesn't make her  religious bigot. 

Calling transgendered women 'men pretending to women' is bigoted. 

Calling transgendered women 'men pretending to women' is bigoted. 

Truth hurts huh?

Is female impersonator easier for you?

Truth hurts huh?

The abuse transwomen are facing these days does hurt them. They best of them continue on in spite of it instead of quitting unlike the woman in the article.

The abuse transwomen are facing these days does hurt them.

Perhaps they didn't think their future through very well when making a life changing decision. 

Trans should compete against other trans...

Sports authorities should be doing as much analysis and data gathering as they can to see if there is a real problem and where solutions could be found, but instead they are just bowing to political pressure of the bigots. 

Transgender women who transitioned after puberty have been banned from competing in professional women’s cycling races, according to the Union Cycliste International (UCI), the international governing body for the sport. UCI announced the rule change on Friday, July 14.

With the many states working to ban probable transgender youth from transitioning before puberty future transwomen will have no place to complete. I suppose they could all refocus their energies and turn to politics...

Though I am no expert, I think the 'problem' of transgender sports goes deeper psychologically than a separate division could fulfill. After-all, a part of transgenderism is taking the proper steps to being and living out life as the other sex in public.  The illusion is discounted, when there is a condition imposed that you are not a woman, but in fact, a different and separate 'classification' of creature. 

Two things I have pondered about this as a homosexual is this:

1. Trans-girls and especially transwomen should not be picking political fights with cis-girls and ciswomen. There is no room for open hostilities in this. 

2. If a transfemale want to qualify for women sports, then she must start hormone therapy at a remarkably young age where and before her body has accumulated and 'mastered' masculine sport-level performances and activities. 

On account of the second point above, it bears out that politicians who deny trans treatment to anybody of suitable (youthful) age should step aside and let the professionals manage this 'field of endeavors.' 

As to the 'torment' that humans can go through because of this. It's real. Very real. Though I am an older homosexual man (living in a decidedly heterosexual surrounding) I still go through numerous mind-shifts in what my life could be/feel like as someone 'female.'  Off and on this has happened all through my life. In case you or somebody else are wondering, I am quite masculine in my public persona/style of living.

BTW, I am of the view that not all homosexual males want to be associated with female characteristics, per se. Just needed to put that out for public consumption and reflection.

We are a varied group of people on a spectrum—in a small way, it kind of reminds me of sexual fetishes and kinks ONLY in that it is exposing itself as scalable and sexual pluralism. I am well-aware that fetishism and kinky sex may be considered mental disorders, but that is definitely not applicable here. Here, we are still trying home the point that sexuality should be a do no harm to others and adult activities. 

This is all getting very 'weird,' diverse, and certainly a world of differences is ahead of us. Some for which we can not imagine, because politics and religion 'stunted' it from 'blossoming' on public display for centuries. 

Perhaps they didn't think their future through very well when making a life changing decision. 

Bowing to the will of bullies and assholes is a better way to make life decisions? Either way they seem to be getting the short end of the deal. How about we stop the abuse and bigotry instead. I'm not saying capitulate to some perceived left wing populist fever dream either. I'm only saying stop treating them as if they are trying to game sports and stop using them as a political punching bag. 

They have been and are doing exactly that. It has been proven that males who have gone through puberty and then later 'transition' will have an advantage over biological women. This isn't really in dispute any longer.

There isn't much data and the small amount of data we do have shows it differs by sport. 

And at what age have you determined that a minor child can decide what gender they want to be?

How about we leave that decision to the parents in partnership with their mental and physical providers? 

More data is being collected daily.

Where? Show me, I'm really interested. 

It is a tad overblown. But that is to be expected, especially since transfemales are 'flooding the zones.' With each record transfemales post on sports history. . . some girl or woman misses her (fair?) opportunity to have done the same. It makes for questions, "asterisk noted wins," and can foster lifelong resentments. 

Forgive me if the bible is not your thing, but there is this biblical thought in the back of my mind that keeps 'playing' when I think on this: 

I Timothy 3:

3 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

I point to this section of the scripture to make the correlation that sometime people have to 'count the cost' of what it is they are planning to do and are doing. They make not be able to make it all work out for themselves in every situation. 

BISHOPS, in the case of the dictum above, who can not follow through for a lifetime of leadership duties and responsibilities of that office should critically think about not joining said ranks for power, influence, and well, novelty and 'fame.' 

Likewise, boys and men who want to cross-over to the ranks of females, but understand there may be somethings not yet possible for them if ever so. 

Read a professional article on the subject, Texan1211. What I have rendered is all I care to engage with at this point and time. The subject matter is raw and sensitive to the lives of many, many, individuals so I won't be throwing thoughts out there loosey-goosey. That is, I have not considered age-limits as this is new to me as it is to you I presume.

Oh, it’s a spectrum for sure (hence all the letters in the ever expanding acronym).  Between my wife and I we have five adult kids - one is a gay male who claims he’s bi but will set off any gaydar within earshot, one is a trans male engaged to a cis female, one who just switched teams and is happier now than I’ve ever seen, and two straight ones.  We’ve got no issues with any of them, we’re just happy that they’re happy.  That girl(?) at the winery really caught me off guard though.  There was some crappy classic rock band playing live at the time.  What originally caught my eye was that she was really skinny and in a pink crop top with a cute ass, but she was playing “air bass” to the music while walking.  Her technique was so specific I thought omg this skinny little chick might actually be a bass player.  Then all the sudden it was like “excuse me, Tom Selleck called and would like his mustache back!”

Your comment is flawed. Trans-females, by definition, should not compete against men. Though for now it is unclear who they should compete against, clearly cis-males are in a class all their own! That is, it would be just as unfair to ask transfemales to compete against cis-males. 

Oh, and there are people, professional people, who are working to see how to make the issues and parts of this dilemma better, not simply passing value judgments on the participants which are negative and pretentious.

I don't have too much of problem with that idea. Transitioning require a bit more than a name and pronoun change however, and if they can't figure it out without the school telling them they can't be very good parents. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure schools, no matter how liberal, aren't enrolling students in (and paying for) transitioning programs.

Her use of language saying she was beat by 'male riders' instead of transgender women = bigot.

Nope....she was beat by a dude.

Done and done...

n particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

A part of a REAL group...not a pretend one.

I've read those. They have data from 2020 and 2021. You said we are collecting more data daily. I want to know who's collecting the data and how.

Right now I'm not arguing or refuting your links. I haven't had time to read them closely. The first one is a German news article and the second one is from Quatar and neither writer did any personally collect data, or do any field studies. But I'll chase links later. I have to close the office now...

LOL! Forgive me for what I am about to write. I have so much respect for what you are sharing right now. It does touch on a thought I have been having about where homosexuals and trans-people derive from: Heterosexual relations. 

In fact, every human endeavor owes its 'start' to heterosexual activity causing a birth: The good, the bad, the ugly. 

It kind of explains why conservatives want (desperately) to separate themselves from homosexuality, because it backwashes onto the 'makers' of us all. 

You should stop whining all over the place! Do you want me to lie to you or throw out concocted crap to appease? Never! Drop it, I don't care if you do!

Why? Transwomen loose too much muscle mass to compete in men's bicycling.

There's more to this than hormone levels and relative muscle mass. Hormones can be part of the conversation, but they shouldn't be the end of it. Even if we just look at hormone levels, the allowable level for trans female athletes usually equals or exceeds the extreme high end of what would be expected in a typical cis woman. Up until just this past year, the levels for a cycling organization in the UK were twice would be seen in a normal healthy woman at peak testosterone. Still lower than you'd see in a healthy man, but uncommonly high - supraphysiological even - for a woman. And if a trans woman can artificially have such high levels, why isn't a cis woman allowed to supplement her natural levels to meet the allowed trans level?

But there's more to it than hormones. Muscle mass, as you observed, decreases - and that is important - but it doesn't happen instantly. It's also probably kept artificially high relative to cis women through the allowed high levels of test.

But hormones and muscle aren't the only relevant difference between men and women.

Men have greater bone density and that decreases slower than muscle. Male muscle tends to have a greater level of Type-II fast twitch muscles fibers, which produce quicker reflexes and greater power (i.e. even with the same amount of muscle a man will be stronger).

Men also develop larger hearts and lungs that can process oxygen more efficiently than a female's. They develop larger hands and feet. Critical to bike racing, swimming, running, and many other sports, a man's pelvis develops such that his legs extend more vertically than a woman's, giving him superior leverage and more efficient movement than any woman. Mens legs are also longer compared to the rest of their body than a woman's. No amount of transitioning will undue these differences.

The woman in the article is one of those entitled evangelicals with a baked in victimhood complex.

I agree there is some of that out there, but that doesn't make her wrong on this issue.

And if a trans woman can artificially have such high levels, why isn't a cis woman allowed to supplement her natural levels to meet the allowed trans level?

My understanding is that with transgirls and transwomen even when they lower their testosterone levels it can not (must not match?) exactly match the same (highest) levels of a girl or woman (may suggest unhealthiness to even attempt doing so). It is in the research (or some such addendum version) I read back in June when I quoted from myself to you above. If you need it I can go back and find the exact statement.

Totally disconnected comment. You don't even realize when you have 'won' your point and just keep pushing until the thing 'breaks' again.

"Calling transgendered women 'men pretending to women' is bigoted." 

They are not women, never were, never will be, simply emotionally disturbed males.

The statement is true and not bigoted.

simply emotionally disturbed males.

Are you qualified to make such an assertion? Well, are you?!

I agree trans-women are by definition not cis-women. That's easy enough to understand and accept. Frankly, I never would have considered that trans-females would take it to this level (competing against girls and women: displacement), but that does not give you the right to make clinical analyses of what a trans-female's state of mind is.

I think transwomen should not participate in women's sports. 

Agreed. 

     "I think transwomen should not participate in women's sports."

I agree

I’m all for supporting and affirming people in living how they want to live. It’s their business. But when you engage in competitive sports, it’s no longer just about your life. I draw the line at competitive sports. The idea that there is anything fair about trans women competing with cis women is a fantasy.

The idea that there is anything fair about trans women competing with cis women is a fantasy.

Couldn’t have said better myself.    My question is:

Where are all the title nine crusaders now?

Where are all the title nine crusaders now?

There are actually quite a few of us, but you’re right - there should be more.

It’s hard because as the issue has become more political, defense of trans athletes has become more irrational. If you speak up for women in this context, you’re attacked as transphobic.

What should be attacked, imo, is the selfishness of trans women seeking athletic glory at the expense of women. They know they have an unfair advantage, but they won’t admit it.

Yep

I support transgirls and transwomen. I support cis-girls and ciswomen. I can not at this juncture support trans-girls and trans-women displacing cis-girls and cis-women in competitive sports. Exception: Those trans-girls have taken proper strives according to the science to compare with cis-girls early in life.

I have not before and will not now stand with anybody's position that causes unfair harm/treatment to another.

I would go further and say that transpeople cannot compete in women's sports. A transman would also have an unfair advantage because of the hormone supplements. However, this is the only rule I support wrt trans people. If a transman wants to compete in men's sports, fine. Bathrooms, etc. non-issues.

Unless there is some incredible advancement in trans transformations, I don't see how you can accept trans people competing with women. As an engineer, this seems obvious.

I found two videos last night dedicated to discussing how the trans activists have hijacked language in order to naysay science and silence rational, scientific debate on this issue.

There is nothing rational about proclaiming that a person can change their biological sex via surgery or hormones.  

and

"Bodies play sports, not identities"  - Finally some common sense - at least in Britain.  The US is currently leading the world in ignorance when it comes to supporting men's rights over women's rights when it comes to the trans issue.  

lm.facebook