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Hate pastor says trans-supportive parents should be “shot in back of the head”

  
Via:  Ender  •  11 months ago  •  105 comments

By:   Daniel Villarreal

Hate pastor says trans-supportive parents should be “shot in back of the head”
"We can string them up above a bridge so that the public can see the consequences of that kind of wickedness."

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 A hate preacher told his church’s congregation that parents who allow their children to have “a transgender surgery” should be shot in the back of the head and hung from a bridge as an example to the public. However, gender-affirming genital surgeries aren’t conducted on children.

These comments came from Jason Graber — a New Independent Fundamental Baptist (New IFB) preacher at Sure Foundation Baptist Church in Spokane, Washington.

“Any parent that would have their child, would have a transgender surgery done on them, any parent that would do that, they just need to be shot in the back of the head,” Graber said. “They need to be convicted in trial and immediately shot in the back of the head. Okay, and then we can string them up above a bridge so that the public can see the consequences of that kind of wickedness.”

“And so there should be no excuse to not put these people to death, no excuse whatsoever,” he added.

He then said that “there are very, very few people out there in the world today that are actually fighting the spiritual fight.” He told his congregation that he doubts other preachers are willing to say that “these child molesters, that these child butchers, that these fa***ts, all the LGBTQ people, people that desire strange flesh, that they should all be put to death in a public execution by the government.”

It’s worth noting that in the TV series   The Handmaid’s Tale , the bodies of LGBTQ+ people are hung in public by a dystopian Christian Nationalist government.

These comments aren’t surprising coming from Graber. He has  referred to gay people as “AIDS dispensers,”   has  previously called for   the execution of gay people , and said that   teachers want to turn kids transgender   to teach them to hate God. In April 2022, he called for LGBTQ+-accepting teachers to be  shot in the head or beheaded on live TV  because, he claimed, they’re “grooming” kids for sexual abuse. The grooming claim has been  repeated by mainstream Republican politicians  as a reason to ban LGBTQ+ content from public schools.

He has also said that LGBTQ stands for “Let God Burn Them Quickly.”

New IFB isn’t affiliated with any mainstream Baptist denomination, although both Baptist and New IFB teachings exhibit anti-LGBTQ+ bigotry, antisemitism, and misogyny. But while Baptists merely condemn queer people to hell, New IFB goes a step further, calling for the execution of LGBTQ+ people.

In March 2023, Graber’s church tweeted from its account that it is getting death threats after calling for the death of LGBTQ+ people so many times.

“When someone actually follows through with one of the MANY threats to rape and kill me, my family, and blow up and kill everyone in my church, including women and children and many other vile and filthy things threatened. What will you say?”  the church tweeted .


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Ender
Professor Principal
1  seeder  Ender    11 months ago

A twitter video of him in action at link.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1  devangelical  replied to  Ender @1    11 months ago
“Any parent that would have their child, would have a transgender surgery done on them, any parent that would do that, they just need to be shot in the back of the head,” Graber said. “They need to be convicted in trial and immediately shot in the back of the head. Okay, and then we can string them up above a bridge so that the public can see the consequences of that kind of wickedness.”

gee, sounds like he skipped a few bible school classes...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2  TᵢG  replied to  Ender @1    11 months ago

Just amazing watching an actual human being express such brutal raw bigotry.    We all know this kind of thinking exists in our species, but it is good to reify every now and so that we remain aware and act to counter mindsets like this.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.2.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  TᵢG @1.2    11 months ago

I don't think there's any altering this guy's mindset...until a scandal about him explodes

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.2.2  seeder  Ender  replied to  TᵢG @1.2    11 months ago

I think what upsets me more is the idea of the people sitting in his congregation agreeing with him...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.3  TᵢG  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.2.1    11 months ago

Agreed, he is a nutcase.   I was referring to others.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.3  devangelical  replied to  Ender @1    11 months ago

I wonder which church in spokane washington will be the first to get shot up... /s

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
2  evilone    11 months ago
In March 2023, Graber’s church tweeted from its account that it is getting death threats after calling for the death of LGBTQ+ people so many times.

A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows hate will reap destruction; whoever sows love will be eternally loved. 

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.1  seeder  Ender  replied to  evilone @2    11 months ago

Always amazes me when people attack and threaten others then when someone dares to do the same back to them it is all the sudden bad.

Me threaten you good, you threaten me, oh hell no...

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
2.2  sandy-2021492  replied to  evilone @2    11 months ago
A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows hate will reap destruction; whoever sows love will be eternally loved.

You don't actually expect them to understand and abide by the Bible, do you?

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.2.1  seeder  Ender  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.2    11 months ago

I am still waiting for them to ditch the Old Testament and start using the new one...

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
2.2.2  sandy-2021492  replied to  Ender @2.2.1    11 months ago

Aren't we all?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.3  TᵢG  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.2    11 months ago

They are certainly taking the literal spirit of the OT to heart.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
2.2.4  sandy-2021492  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.3    11 months ago

They are, and completely ignoring that whole "judge not, lest ye be judged" thing.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
2.2.5  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.3    11 months ago

I've got a bottle of redemption wry on my shelf

TiG let me save yourself

Good God almighty with glory bound

That pretty little redemption in the go ahead round

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.6  TᵢG  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.2.5    11 months ago

I have no idea what you are trying to express.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.2.7  devangelical  replied to  Ender @2.2.1    11 months ago
I am still waiting for them to ditch the Old Testament and start using the new one...

that happens in another 2000 years...

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3  JBB    11 months ago

The gop's Final Solution for their LGBTQ Problem! 

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
3.1  Right Down the Center  replied to  JBB @3    11 months ago
The gop's Final Solution for their LGBTQ Problem! 

Trying to insinuate that the gop shares his views is nothing less than total bullshit...........  just in case you are wondering why many don't take you seriously.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1.1  JBB  replied to  Right Down the Center @3.1    11 months ago

The gop is responsible for demonizing transsexuals and transexuality...

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
3.1.2  Right Down the Center  replied to  JBB @3.1.1    11 months ago
The gop is responsible for demonizing trans.

Doubling down on the misinformation is not a good look.  Not surprising though.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1.3  JBB  replied to  Right Down the Center @3.1.2    11 months ago

The gop has sponsored and introduced anti-LGBTQ legislation in a dozen states!

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  JBB @3.1.3    11 months ago

Kentucky, Arkansas, Florida...all come to mind...and they have republican governors and legislatures

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
3.1.5  Right Down the Center  replied to  JBB @3.1.3    11 months ago

Where have they said it is illegal for adults to be L or G or B or T or Q?  And where have they said they should be shot in the back of the head?

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3.1.6  Tacos!  replied to  Right Down the Center @3.1    11 months ago
Trying to insinuate that the gop shares his views is nothing less than total bullshit

Maybe. But people like this probably are certain that the GOP share his views. That’s a problem, don’t you think? Would it be so terrible if Republicans made it more clear that they don’t share his views?

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
3.1.7  Right Down the Center  replied to  Tacos! @3.1.6    11 months ago
Would it be so terrible if Republicans made it more clear that they don’t share his views?

You really expect them to say they don't want people shot in the back of the head?  Some things really don't need to be said unless it is to appease people that would not believe it anyway.  Be it the whackadoodle himself or people that want to complain about not seeing or hearing the exact words they wish to see or hear and want to spew bullshit like above.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
3.1.8  Ronin2  replied to  Tacos! @3.1.6    11 months ago

Why? Democrats/leftists; their media sycophants; and lemming followers would never believe them no matter how many times they publically genuflect.

Better to just ignore the rampant mighty mental midgets.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
3.1.9  Bob Nelson  replied to  JBB @3.1.3    11 months ago
The gop has sponsored and introduced anti-LGBTQ legislation in a dozen states!

The obvious intent is to make gays second-class citizens. That's standard fascist procedure, before moving on to a more final solution.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3.1.10  Tacos!  replied to  Right Down the Center @3.1.7    11 months ago
You really expect them to say they don't want people shot in the back of the head?

No, that’s obviously insufficient. How about let’s start by dropping the current hysterical flood of anti-LGBT legislation? How about recognizing that they exist as a minority in our society and moving to protect them?

When your standard is merely “we don’t endorse shooting you in the back of the head,” that’s not exactly the kind of affirmation most people would be looking for.

Imagine if your spouse was bugging you to say “I love you” or looking for a romantic gift from you, and you countered with “I promise not to shoot you in the head.” You really think that’s the foundation for a good relationship?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
3.1.11  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Tacos! @3.1.10    11 months ago

I don’t understand this wave of anti-LGBT legislation.  I have never felt threatened nor do I think that the country is threatened by their presence.  If one believes that family is important for people and the nation, then extending the dames rights and privileges to that community is important.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3.1.12  Tacos!  replied to  Ronin2 @3.1.8    11 months ago
Why? Democrats/leftists; they’re media sycophants; and lemming followers would never believe them no matter how many times they publically genuflect.

When have they bothered to genuflect? But that’s not what anyone is looking for anyway. Guess you thought you’d invent an absurd straw man to make one side seem wildly unreasonable. 

No, genuflection is not what is required. It is not what is being demanded. So whining about genuflection is bogus.

How about not passing anti-LGBT laws? How about not fighting against equal rights under the law? How about not fighting against hate crime legislation? How about not wishing gay marriage would be undone?

How about not spreading the INSANE smear that LGBT people and anyone who supports them wants to “groom” children? Is that really so much to ask?

In other words, if Republicans actually acted like they value LGBT people as people, the rest of the world might start to believe they weren’t on the side of the murderous lunatics.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3.1.13  Tacos!  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.1.11    11 months ago
I don’t understand how this wave of anti-LGBT legislation.

I suspect much of it is simply a distraction. When politicians can’t solve problems the old-fashioned way - with thoughtfulness, leadership, and hard work - they identify a scapegoat and focus on it. Suddenly aaalllll of society’s problems are the fault of LGBT, POC, and “woke” ideology. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
3.1.14  Bob Nelson  replied to  Right Down the Center @3.1.5    11 months ago

Perhaps you're too young to remember:

384

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
3.1.15  Right Down the Center  replied to  Tacos! @3.1.10    11 months ago
"No, that’s obviously insufficient. How about let’s start by dropping the current hysterical flood of anti-LGBT legislation? How about recognizing that they exist as a minority in our society and moving to protect them?"

What is all the legislation we are talking about?  It seems to all be under anti LGBTQ label.  When we are talking about age appropriate legislation I personally don't consider it anti anything as much as pro kids and what they should be subjected to in a school.  Like a PG 13 movie parents want some control and don't want others deciding what their kids should see.  No one is saying don't be what you are. Same goes for surgery for minors without parental knowledge or approval.  Very few people do not recognize that they exist and the vast majority of people (repubs included) want them to be treated as anyone else. Of course I can't speak for all legislation but I think some of the hysteria is on the left calling anything and everything anti lgbtq when it is not.

"When your standard is merely “we don’t endorse shooting you in the back of the head,” that’s not exactly the kind of affirmation most people would be looking for."

Now it seems you are looking for specific words.  Past experience says it will never be enough so I have stopped trying.  Just like I stopped asking my wife to tell me exactly what she wants me to say.  No good ever came from it.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
3.1.16  Right Down the Center  replied to  Bob Nelson @3.1.14    11 months ago

And I remember reading about what they did to AlanTuring.  We sure have come a long way.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
3.1.17  Sean Treacy  replied to  Tacos! @3.1.6    11 months ago
Would it be so terrible if Republicans made it more clear that they don’t share his views?

Why are left wing publications the only ones giving him press? Maybe because they are trying to insinuate that the GOP shares his views?

This is a man with an internet connection spewing hate.  He just happens to be one the left can exploit.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
3.1.18  Right Down the Center  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.1.11    11 months ago
If one believes that family is important for people and the nation, then extending the dames rights and privileges to that community is important.

I agree.  I have to wonder how much of the current pushback is some people thinking "live and let live " is no longer enough.  It seems in some cases if you are not an activist for the cause you are called anti-whatever.  

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
3.1.19  Right Down the Center  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.1.17    11 months ago
Why are left wing publications the only ones giving him press? Maybe because they are trying to insinuate that the GOP shares his views?

Based on what I see right here....... it seems so.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3.1.20  Tacos!  replied to  Right Down the Center @3.1.15    11 months ago
I personally don't consider it anti anything as much as pro kids and what they should be subjected to in a school.

Subjected to? What are they subjected to? Finding out that people are different? That not everybody may be like them and that that’s ok? Oh, the horror!

No one is saying don't be what you are.

Just hide what you are, right?

It’s still ok to talk about straight relationships, though, right? We don’t mind subjecting kids to that. But we can’t acknowledge a kid that lives in a family with two dads? Because why? They’ll go mad or something? Being gay is contagious? 

We teach kids about all sorts of things in school. Different governments. Different economies. War. We even teach them about sex. But the mere existence of gay or trans people is verboten?

Same goes for surgery for minors without parental knowledge or approval.

What doctors are performing surgery on a child without parental consent? We’re talking about a whole raft of laws in a dozen states. Is this really a big problem? Not jobs? Not roads? Not inflation? Not crime? 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.21  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.1.17    11 months ago

So where is your condemnation of him? You keep spouting all this other shit but not once have you condemned him

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
3.1.22  Right Down the Center  replied to  Tacos! @3.1.20    11 months ago
Subjected to? What are they subjected to? Finding out that people are different? That not everybody may be like them and that that’s ok? Oh, the horror

Parents should have input into what they feel is age appropriate for their kids in school.  Not a tough concept yet the left seems to think kids are all wards of the state and they get to make the decision. 

Just hide what you are, right?

 Never said that but you go with it anyway.

What doctors are performing surgery on a child without parental consent? We’re talking about a whole raft of laws in a dozen states. Is this really a big problem? Not jobs? Not roads? Not inflation? Not crime? 

          It is possible to do more than one thing at a time.  There are no laws being proposed that would         make keeping the parents of minors not informed?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.23  Trout Giggles  replied to  Right Down the Center @3.1.22    11 months ago

not yet

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.1.24  CB  replied to  Right Down the Center @3.1.22    11 months ago
Parents should have input into what they feel is age appropriate for their kids in school.  Not a tough concept yet the left seems to think kids are all wards of the state and they get to make the decision. 

Excuse me, but when parents start credentialing up to be professionals in education, then they will fall under the same charter and regulations that teachers face trying to give kids a better and world-class education.

Public schools are not enhanced religious centers of education

A conservative child does not become "all and all" the school concerns itself with making knowledgeable about a variety of personal and public issues, despite what some evangelical parents are trying to make the overarching narrative.

Public schools are not equipped to be conservative centers of learning!

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
3.1.25  afrayedknot  replied to  CB @3.1.24    11 months ago

“Public schools are not equipped to be conservative centers of learning!”

Nor is it their Constitutional duty. The cognitive dissonance is deafening. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.1.26  CB  replied to  afrayedknot @3.1.25    11 months ago

I am really mad with our fellow citizens who overlook the obvious: Teacher candidates seeking professional credentials are not equipped in theological debate or subject matter. Indeed, Jesus and the Bible, if mentioned at all, would likely be mentioned in a polite manner that directs people to their worship centers synagogues, temples, mosques, or religious centers accordingly.

Teachers have their hands full trying to deal with curricula, "shortages" of funding for a deeper classroom experience, hungry children, children with behavioral problems, and yes - a percentage of kids with personal/private issues that come to class with them daily. It should not be imposed on teachers to be trained 'pastoral' assistants too! It's just too much politics migrating into places where politics is not helpful!

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
3.1.27  Right Down the Center  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.23    11 months ago

Keep looking, it is out there

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
3.1.28  Right Down the Center  replied to  CB @3.1.24    11 months ago

My daughter is a teacher.  By all accounts she is an excellent teacher.  She has no input into  what is taught in her school.  She is told what to teach and it is up to her to take that, make the plans and execute it.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3.1.29  seeder  Ender  replied to  Right Down the Center @3.1.28    11 months ago

By the aspect, a single parent has no say over what is taught either.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
3.1.30  Sean Treacy  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.21    11 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3.1.31  Tacos!  replied to  Right Down the Center @3.1.22    11 months ago
Parents should have input into what they feel is age appropriate for their kids in school.

Parents have input. Where do they not? Parents have conferences with teachers, meet with principals, and can address school boards. They are also free to discuss things with their kids. Stop spreading this myth that parents have no input. 

That doesn’t mean each and every parent will get everything 100% the way they want it. I wish certain teachers would grade differently or hand out less homework. Or be nicer. Or more professional. I may say something to to someone in the system or I may not. The result will not always be what I would prefer, but I certainly have input.

Never said that but you go with it anyway.

What you did say implies no other consequence but the one I mentioned. You are free, of course to clarify your intentions if you think you have been misunderstood.

You still haven’t explained what you think kids are subjected to or what it is that is not age appropriate.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
3.1.32  Bob Nelson  replied to  afrayedknot @3.1.25    11 months ago

"conservative" and "learning" do not belong in the same sentence 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
3.1.33  Bob Nelson  replied to  CB @3.1.26    11 months ago

Good points. Also, a public school teacher would have to be able to teach America's other religions: Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, ...

Oh, and a few dozen Native American religions.

There might be a little time for reading and writing.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
3.2  Greg Jones  replied to  JBB @3    11 months ago

Mindless sweeping generalization.   Shameful.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.2.1  JBB  replied to  Greg Jones @3.2    11 months ago

Yeah, that's the ticket! I am the bad guy!

That pastor should probably execute me.

Forget the hateful evangelical Christian...

Shouldn't he be free to execute his faith?

GTFOOH!

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
3.2.2  Right Down the Center  replied to  JBB @3.2.1    11 months ago
Yeah, that's the ticket! I am the bad guy!

He never said or hinted at that.  Why do some feel the need to be the victim?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4  Trout Giggles    11 months ago

I winder what skeletons are in his closet

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.1  JBB  replied to  Trout Giggles @4    11 months ago

He has bad dreams about girls with huge dicks?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.2  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @4    11 months ago

he's probably stuffed a bone in a lot of awkward places...

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5  Trout Giggles    11 months ago
It’s worth noting that in the TV series The Handmaid’s Tale , the bodies of LGBTQ+ people are hung in public by a dystopian Christian Nationalist government.

I'm not crazy or imagining things but when I hear people like this spout off this shit or when Ron DeSantis go off on the woke crowd or when our favorite cons at NT do it.....I get a very bad feeling

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
5.1  evilone  replied to  Trout Giggles @5    11 months ago

Christian Nationalists are the very worst of the worst populists. There are a few (thankfully only a very few) that are calling for their own people to infiltrate the government, military and law enforcement so they can dismantle democracy to do exactly what you and I fear. They think they have enough bobbleheads these days to try. Fortunately they don't. Not yet anyway. It doesn't stop them from trying though.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
5.1.1  seeder  Ender  replied to  evilone @5.1    11 months ago

I read a report the other day that said where they were succeeding was local elections that not a lot of people pay attention to, like local school boards.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ender @5.1.1    11 months ago

And that's the scary part. Win the minds of the locals and then you can concentrate on the larger populace

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
5.1.3  evilone  replied to  Ender @5.1.1    11 months ago

Yes, in local school boards, city councils / county boards and election committees. These are places where people who want to get into politics usually start. It's where the Progressive wings started and the Tea Party (now the Freedom Caucus) exploited too. It's just that this new group's agenda is so toxic people are taking more notice. Which is good, I guess. 

I never hear about local politics on the news anymore it's always state stuff and even then I have to go search it out. I have no children in school so I have no clue who's running the school board. 

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
5.1.4  seeder  Ender  replied to  evilone @5.1.3    11 months ago

Sadly I don't know who is on ours either. Our local news spends more time telling us which restaurant has a C rating.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
6  Sean Treacy    11 months ago

This is a guy yelling on the internet.

Just another  wee culture war post to excite progressive land  into thinking this is happening everywhere

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.1  seeder  Ender  replied to  Sean Treacy @6    11 months ago

Nope nothing to see here. All the bills against transgendered or gay people coming from republicans is all in everyone's mind....s/

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
6.1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ender @6.1    11 months ago

Yeah we're all just crazy!

Is this what they call gaslighting? Telling us that what we see with our own eyes is just all in our head?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6.1.2  Kavika   replied to  Ender @6.1    11 months ago

Nearly 240 anti-LGBTQ bills filed in 2022 so far, most of them targeting trans people

And in 2023 more yet are being added.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
6.1.3  Sean Treacy  replied to  Ender @6.1    11 months ago

You got me. Threatening  to kill transgendered people is the exact same thing as a bill restricting adults from performing sex shows in front of minors.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.1.4  seeder  Ender  replied to  Sean Treacy @6.1.3    11 months ago

Oh really. Show me where trans people are performing sex acts in front of children...

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
6.1.5  Sean Treacy  replied to  Ender @6.1.4    11 months ago

You are the one who brought up these bills as the equivalent of advocating the murder of transgender people.  Why do you think not permitting transgender people to perform sex shows in front of minors is the same as killing them?

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.1.6  seeder  Ender  replied to  Sean Treacy @6.1.5    11 months ago

I never said it was equivalent, I am more inferring cause and effect.

We have all seen consequences that can happen from extreme political rhetoric.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
6.1.7  Right Down the Center  replied to  Ender @6.1.6    11 months ago
We have all seen consequences that can happen from extreme political rhetoric.

Yep, one moment you are yelling about being triggered at people exercising their free speech and the next you think you have the right to chase someone with a machete.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.1.8  seeder  Ender  replied to  Right Down the Center @6.1.7    11 months ago

Maybe even hatch a plan to kidnap a Governor...

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
6.1.9  Right Down the Center  replied to  Ender @6.1.8    11 months ago

Exactly

Or even kill a supreme court justice.

We can go on all day.  There are lots of people out there that don't need more then a little nudge to go over the edge.  The political climate of "the other side is evil and must be vanquished at all costs" sure doesn't help the situation.  Maybe our elected officials could actually set a better example since some people still seem to look up to them.  I have no idea why.

And to the dismay of some I am talking about politicians on both sides of the aisle, starting with the guy at the top.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.1.10  seeder  Ender  replied to  Right Down the Center @6.1.9    11 months ago
to the dismay of some I am talking about politicians on both sides of the aisle

While looking straight ahead one still needs to be aware of what is behind their back...Haha

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
6.1.11  Ronin2  replied to  Ender @6.1.8    11 months ago

Please tell the FBI to stop that!

The defense portrayed the four defendants as big talkers and pot smokers who were tricked into proceeding with their plans by an undercover informant working for the FBI. One defense attorney described the case as laced with marijuana smoke and mirrors. Defense attorney Michael Hill said the verdict shows the government overreached and lured the men into a conspiracy.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

MICHAEL HILL: I think - what the FBI did is unconscionable is what I think. And I think the jury just sent them a message loud and clear that these tactics are not going to be - you know, we're not going to condone what they've done here.

PLUTA: The judge ordered defendants Daniel Harris and Barry Caserta to be freed following the not guilty verdicts. The future is less clear for defendants Adam Fox and Barry Croft. Prosecutors described these two men as ringleaders. U.S. attorney for Western Michigan Andrew Birge calls the verdict disappointing and says he plans on a retrial.

But it turned out those individuals included the government’s “confidential sources,” who pushed the half-baked scheme and orchestrated acts “in furtherance of that plan” even when the defendants resisted it.

The appearance of entrapment, coupled with the difficulty of distinguishing between fantasy and criminal conspiracy, explains the embarrassing outcome of a federal trial that ended last week, when jurors acquitted two alleged conspirators and failed to reach verdicts for the other two. It was a well-deserved rebuke of investigative methods that crossed the line between prevention and invention.

Two of the six original defendants, Ty Garbin and Kaleb Franks, pleaded guilty and testified for the prosecution, saying they willingly participated in the kidnapping plot. But the record compiled by the government shows FBI agents and their informants were determined to advance a narrative that would justify their efforts.

The jurors clearly were troubled by that evidence. They acquitted two of the remaining defendants, Daniel Harris and Brandon Caserta, of conspiring to kidnap Whitmer, and could not agree on the charges against the other two, Adam Fox and Barry Croft.

Entrapment is a wonderful thing. Please don't bother to post that the other 2 were found guilty on retrial; and others plead out. They allowed themselves to be bullied by the FBI/DOJ- instead of fighting it out like the two that pleaded innocent and wouldn't cooperate from the start. Wonderful part of our two tier justice system. 

Just goes to prove that when Democrats need something done the FBI/DOJ will provide- even if they have to manufacture it.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.1.12  seeder  Ender  replied to  Ronin2 @6.1.11    11 months ago

To some that would be heaven. Put me in a pot smoke filled room....

Political violence happens.

We all know the FBI has infiltrated some nazi groups. Sorry but I don't buy the idea that because the FBI infiltrated a nazi group, they are spearheading the efforts.

Entrapment has been a well known tool in all of law enforcement.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6.1.13  Kavika   replied to  Ronin2 @6.1.11    11 months ago

The FBI infiltrating groups goes back to pre WWII under both administrations. Best try and keep up with history.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
6.2  Right Down the Center  replied to  Sean Treacy @6    11 months ago
Just another  wee culture war post to excite progressive land

It doesn't seem to take much.  I am having a hard time finding legislation suggesting shooting anyone in the back of the head.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.2.1  seeder  Ender  replied to  Right Down the Center @6.2    11 months ago

It doesn't seem to take much for some to just dismiss these kinds of things and act like it is some kind of normal behavior.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
6.2.2  Right Down the Center  replied to  Ender @6.2.1    11 months ago

Who has said this is normal behavior?  I think most if not all would dismiss it as an isolated incident.  I don't think anyone is suggesting this is normal behavior.  Trying to make a sweeping statement about a group of people using this as an example is bullshit.  It shows desperation if this is what they have to resort to.  

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.2.3  seeder  Ender  replied to  Right Down the Center @6.2.2    11 months ago

Sorry but people can be outraged about someone saying people should be shot and hung in public.

It should be shouted down.

In your opinion, why all the sudden do republicans want all these bills deciding what trans people can and cannot do? It was never a point or priority before, at least at this level.

Saying it is for the children is a smoke screen most people can see through.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
6.2.4  Right Down the Center  replied to  Ender @6.2.3    11 months ago
Sorry but people can be outraged about someone saying people should be shot and hung in public. It should be shouted down.

Then by all means be outraged and shout all you want.  Saying anyone should be shot in the head is still an isolated incident. Who has said it  is normal behavior as you stated?  Don't be surprised if most people don't get all worked up over it, or even know of it. 

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.2.5  seeder  Ender  replied to  Right Down the Center @6.2.4    11 months ago

Normal behavior. For some reason every time I type behavior I add a u to it...

Anyway, he is hardly a one off shot. He is just more direct than the usual hellfire and brimstone crowd that just think they are going to eternal damnation.

It doesn't stop there anymore. Now it is they are all out to get us and groom our children.

A step beyond just judgement.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
6.2.6  sandy-2021492  replied to  Right Down the Center @6.2.4    11 months ago
Saying anyone should be shot in the head is still an isolated incident.

And yet

I don't think many would dismiss it as an isolated incident.

Which one are you going to stick with?

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
6.2.7  Right Down the Center  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.2.6    11 months ago

corrected for your viewing pleasure

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
6.2.8  Trout Giggles  replied to  Right Down the Center @6.2.4    11 months ago

Ignore rhetoric like this at your peril

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
6.2.9  Right Down the Center  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.2.8    11 months ago
Ignore rhetoric like this at your peril

That is my current plan subject to change if he or his followers run for an office that I can vote in.  If I got weirded out every time some idiot opened his mouth and spewed hate I would never leave the basement.

In the mean time If he does something illegal I have faith the authorities will take care of him..

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
7  JBB    11 months ago

Those US Senators who helped African nations draft "Kill The Gays Laws" were all in the gop...

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
7.1  George  replied to  JBB @7    11 months ago

You are mistaken, they were all democrats and they justified it by calling it post birth abortion bill.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
7.1.1  JBB  replied to  George @7.1    11 months ago

What I said is truth. What you said is a lie!

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
8  George    11 months ago

Yippee, another idiot has stepped into the breach to fill the shoes of Westboro baptist church.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
9  CB    11 months ago

This man is issuing a call to action to his fellow clergymen/women to take up his message- with real-world actions forthcoming. Somebody in that state should have him investigated immediately! That organization must get sanctioned by the Church-at-Large. And if a hair on any LGBTQ person is harmed: the New LBF church organization should be held liable as Grabber is for soliciting violence from a community of listeners!

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
10  Bob Nelson    11 months ago

How can "Christian" "pastor" spew such hate... and no one picks up on it? The word "Christian" is now synonyme with "hatred". 

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
10.1  evilone  replied to  Bob Nelson @10    11 months ago

I get what you are saying, but personally I would replace "Christian" with "Evangelical". Even that wouldn't be entirely correct. This type of hatred has created quite schism within the denomination. Many have spoken out, some have left, but others are simply rebelling against the "leadership" of the Southern Baptists. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
10.1.1  devangelical  replied to  evilone @10.1    11 months ago

I thought the SBC issues were about people that had a hard time keeping their clothes on outside church.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
10.1.2  evilone  replied to  devangelical @10.1.1    11 months ago

Yes, members of the SBC has had their issues. I try very hard not to paint with a broad brush as maddening as these people are.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
10.2  CB  replied to  Bob Nelson @10    11 months ago

Bob, you might be closer (though I am sure some of these folks will turn away from this leader on reflection) if you write Fundamentalist Christians are synonymous with hatred. I find myself speaking out against fundamentalists more than usual. Indeed, I am angry "all day" with fundamentalists of which this guy is definitely one of the worse purveyors of 'another gospel' (a negative connotation). I condemn his remarks.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
10.2.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  CB @10.2    11 months ago

How about we just call them fundamentalists? There's nothing Christian about them.

I attended an Independent Baptist Church in Indiana, PA because a classmate asked me to go to church with her. I think I lasted 2 Sundays. The Sunday school teacher (I was a teen at the time) was telling us not to date Methodists, Presbyterians and most especially Catholics! Hell, she didn't have to mention Jews, nobody would have dared to date a Jew!

I was like OMG....Christians all believe in the same two tenets, born of virgin, died for our sins, but the way they worship is so different that the mainline protestants are all sinners.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
10.2.2  CB  replied to  Trout Giggles @10.2.1    11 months ago

Fundamentalists Christians I will agree are misguided to say the least.  I am unable to remove them from the 'body' of believers, because so many different (and some wonderful) people can get caught up in bad ministries. And try like the dickens must remain so until such time as their significant other or immediate relatives can be moved on to something else.  - Or, something like that! (It's really hard to transition out of a church where one has built (strong) connections.)

TG, that being said, it is still a bridge to far to stay in a place that is telling you to go out and cause bodily and grave harm to another person!

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
10.2.3  devangelical  replied to  CB @10.2.2    11 months ago

there's a lot of money in being a fake xtian...

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
10.2.4  CB  replied to  devangelical @10.2.3    11 months ago

It is clear that when a so-called leader tells his congregation in clear terms to commit felonious murders, plural on a bystander/passerby/citizen or groups of the same: It is time to pull that "leader" and take him or her out of fellowship! Such zealotry is surely unwelcomed - or should be - by the church leadership voting body. By now somebody in that church should demand a vote of NO CONFIDENCE be ordered.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
10.2.5  devangelical  replied to  CB @10.2.4    11 months ago
It is time to pull that "leader" and take him or her out of fellowship!

I could tell you a few stories, but I'm not sure what the statute of limitations are on them.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
10.2.6  CB  replied to  devangelical @10.2.5    11 months ago

Uh-oh! Think caution, first! (Don't share anything you don't shouted from the roof-tops  - "D"!)

 
 

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