Hair salon owner tells nonbinary patrons to 'seek the services of a pet groomer'

And so it begins...

Good for her. She's not refusing service, just refusing to participate in their silly little pronoun games.

And yes, this is the beginning of what will probably become a wave of unwoke businesses saying, fuck off....and go patronize someone who will put up with your gender identity crisis shit.

After being assured that wouldn't happen?

Fucking idiots. 

The Salon wouldn't be able to tell if they kept their fucking mouths shut. 

I know several women that get men's style haircuts. And a few men that have over shoulder length hair that get women's style haircuts. Nothing is funnier than watching a male body builder work out in a multi tiered manbun because his waist length hair gets in the way. He refuses to get it cut because every male in his family is bald; and he is going to enjoy his hair for as long as he can.

But morons have to through their political ideology in everyone's face. People are sick of it; and now the overly woke, perpetually offended, morons are paying the price. 

Good for her. She's not refusing service, just refusing to participate in their silly little pronoun games.

Greg, if she is not refusing service then what is she doing?

She is either accepting these individuals as customers or not. 

Which is it?

No, she's informing potential customers what is acceptable behavior in her shop. That is her right. Then the choice is up to them. This is the same as a store saying a shirt and shoes are required to come inside.

That is her right. 

If someone tries to make an appointment and is denied because they identified as non-binary, do you think the proprietor would win in a discrimination case?

Think again.

This is the same as a store saying a shirt and shoes are required to come inside.

Not even close.   Shirt and shoes does not focus on attributes of the individual and are typically generally applicable rules for health reasons.   This is simply bigotry.  Big difference.

And then throwing in an insult, beforehand:

“If a human identifies as anything other than a man/woman, please seek services at a local pet groomer,” she posted.

Look, I am not a fan of "they" as a pronoun, but I am also not a fan of singling out a group of people to insult either. This was mean and meant as a slap in the face so that this salon owner didn't have to deal with trans people.

all the ultra conservatives that have LGBTQ family members need somebody to blame...

she's informing potential customers what is acceptable behavior in her shop.

What behavior do you think she is expecting?

This was mean and meant as a slap in the face so that this salon owner didn't have to deal with trans people.

Aren't transgender people binary by definition?

Guess she’s not hurting for customers, then.

too bad the majority of her potential customer base cuts their own hair, if they still have any...

She should’ve just said come on in but do not expect pronoun correct service.  Telling them to not come there is stupid and blatantly discriminatory.  If her fragile sensibilities can’t handle touching particular people then she shouldn’t be in business.

“If a human identifies as anything other than a man/woman, please seek services at a local pet groomer,” she posted.

Now this is a clear case of discrimination.   In this case, the proprietor is refusing to perform a normal service she offers because of attributes of the patrons.  

You're wrong again. Demanding to be called a false pronoun is not a normaI service. If someone came in drunk and belligerent, cursing up a storm, she has every right to to refuse service. 

Demanding to be called a false pronoun is not a normaI service.

Cutting someone's hair is normal service, no matter how the customer prefers to be referred to. I've gotten a lot of haircuts over the years and not once has anyone referred to me by any pronoun while I'm there, nor have they asked. 

If someone came in drunk and belligerent, cursing up a storm, she has every right to to refuse service. 

So, in your twisted perspective asking to be referred to as 'they' is the same as being drunk and disruptive? 

Demanding to be called a false pronoun is not a normaI service.

Of course, when losing a debate, invent new facts.

This case is not about someone DEMANDING to be referred to as non-binary.   This is about discriminating against those who identify as non-binary.

If someone came in drunk and belligerent, cursing up a storm, she has every right to to refuse service. 

Well of course, that is because the person would be violating the law with bad behavior.   Identifying as non-binary is not bad behavior.

Now this is a clear case of discrimination. In this case, the proprietor is refusing to perform a normal service she offers because of attributes of the patrons.  

Technically, at least as far as the article expresses, she has not refused to perform services, but has stated her position that certain people are not welcome in the shop. I don't know that publicly expressing a request that certain people "please seek services at a pet groomer" would violate anything. Before Smith, I still don't think this would be actionable, until someone walked into the shop, and called her bluff. 

The one thing that has always puzzled me on the service issues is this. Why would you want to obtain services from a person that does not like you? The court's are loathe to enforce a service contract by specific performance, because there is a significant risk the one compelled to perform the service will not perform to the best of their ability. I don't see the difference here, or in this situation. I don't perceive a significant risk that this would be such a trend that members of the nonbinary community would be left with no business willing to provide services either. Rather, I see a few fringe people taking this position, which leads to one thing..."more beer for us" so to speak. 

I don't agree with the shop owner's position, but I don't think her position hurts anyone that prefers they/them. Go somewhere else and receive better service, or, at a minimum, service from someone that doesn't have an expressed distaste for you. 

The one thing that has always puzzled me on the service issues is this. Why would you want to obtain services from a person that does not like you?

Because taken to an extreme we've already experienced historically there may be no place to get service. Second it I am just as puzzled as to why someone would refuse services. Are they not in the business to make money? And limiting one's customer base is not the smartest business decision. 

I don't think her position hurts anyone that prefers they/them.

Being treated as a second class citizen does hurt people. 

Because taken to an extreme we've already experienced historically there may be no place to get service.

But we are not where we were historically, and I don't think this behavior would be on any scale large enough to impact a person's ability to obtain services. Maybe I am being too naive. I think you could make a case for certain services that are not as prevalent. Just thinking about my area, there are only a handful of surveyors. If each of them refused to provide services, it might impact someone...but only to the extent that they'd have to call a surveyor outside of a 10 mile radius. I thought about this aspect before. 60 years ago (I wasn't alive, so for what's it's worth) perhaps this is a problem. Now? I think the number of people who would cut off a portion of their potential client pool, because they don't agree with some aspect of their lives, is very small, and likely negligible. Beyond that, and despite all that we see from our readily accessible media, I think we have more love and tolerance now. 

Being treated as a second class citizen does hurt people.

That's the beauty of it, isn't it? Anyone who takes issue with the owner's position does not have to be treated in any way, shape or form by the owner. Go somewhere where you will be treated like you want to be treated. I'm not trying to make light of this, but the thought occurred to me, (while watching a T.V. show recently) we, as a society, really do go out of our way to have our feelings hurt. It's a real issue, but some kid was in counseling for things said online by people who were not even a part of the kid's life. It's crazy. Why get hung up on what this shop owner posted, or what her position is? There are probably hundreds of shops in her area that will welcome everyone with open arms. Go to those. Go to the baker who treats everyone the same. Buy your groceries from the store, where you are always greeted with a smile. Those places are out there. 

I agree, and don't know why a person would refuse to service someone else. 

Technically, at least as far as the article expresses, she has not refused to perform services, but has stated her position that certain people are not welcome in the shop.

Correct.   But we only have an article.   So is it wrong to hold that it is likely she would put her words into action?   Especially given the bigoted, demeaning language she used.

I don't agree with the shop owner's position, but I don't think her position hurts anyone that prefers they/them. 

I do not think she harms anyone either.   I never made a point about harm.  My point was about discrimination.   This is clearly discrimination (if, as you note, she acts according to her words).

But we are not where we were historically...

A wise man once said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." With the resurgence of the LGBTQ+ boogieman from rightwing circles there most certainly would be some less populated towns where one could be banned from all services. 

I think you could make a case for certain services that are not as prevalent.

More than 1 in 8 LGBTQ+ people live in a state where they can be refused medical treatment because they are queer. Where will it stop if it's not stopped here?

Anyone who takes issue with the owner's position does not have to be treated in any way, shape or form by the owner.

A refusal of service is action by inaction. To be told constantly they are not worthy of service, respect, love or family... that they are evil and sinful... that they are less than their neighbor... that their neighbor would rather run them out of town by beating or even killing them if he/she could get away with it.. is a horrible thing to subject American citizens to. 

How would you respond to a lifetime of that type of treatment?

rather run them out of town

In a small town in KY where my brother resided (also my mother whom we recently relocated back to NY), there lived a lesbian couple who baked.  They lived down the road from him.  He used to stop & purchase baked good from their road side stand.  One morning as he was headed to work he drove by their home which was burned to the ground with a sign stuck in the ground "Get out d**es".  Luckily neither woman was injured, BUT they were HARMED...

...their home... was burned to the ground with a sign stuck in the ground "Get out d**es".

It's not an isolated incident. 

Chance Seneca, 21, of Lafayette, Louisiana, was sentenced today to 45 years in federal prison for kidnapping and attempting to murder a gay man as part of a months-long scheme to kidnap and murder gay men. justice

The weirdo wanted to copy Dahmer and eat his victims, so maybe we can dismiss him as the sociopath he is.

The Marshal Report has tracked an marked increase in hate crimes against LGBTQ+ (and Asians) since coming out of the pandemic. It seems to correlate with the alt+right populist rise in political rhetoric against the LGBTQ community. 

So just a quick report... I'm not going to waste my time on deep dive for people who will never change their minds anyway. For 2022: 

• February 17 – A 60-year-old gay man was tied up and assaulted with a wrench by Ethan Dickerson, his neighbor. Dickerson cited the victim's sexuality as the reason for the assault.

• March 19 – A 22-year-old man was attacked while riding a NYC subway train. The suspect repeatedly spat on the victim, then began to assault the victim when they tried to move.

• April 17 –   James Garcia, a gay man, was attacked while walking his dog by Maurice Charles, 36 in   Fort Lauderdale, Florida. As a result of the attack, Garcia had to receive ten stitches.

• April 26 – An unidentified individual threw a rock through the front door of the Pride Center VT office. As of April, 2022 the incident remains unsolved and is being investigated as a hate crime.

• May 27 –   Tristan Torres, 14, was attacked when he wore a pride flag during the last day of classes at Defiance Middle School in   Defiance, Ohio. The assailant threw water at Torres, who was sitting with friends, then proceeded to choke and beat him. As a result of the attack, Torres suffered minor injuries.

• June 1  – An unidentified individual, 31, was stabbed on the New York City subway. The suspect started a verbal altercation with the victim, utilizing homophobic slurs. Subsequently, the suspect then stabbed the victim, before fleeing the station.

• July 3  –   Noah Ruiz, a 20-year-old transgender man, was assaulted by multiple men while camping in   Camden, Ohio. Ruiz was advised to use the women's restroom at a campground site, despite identifying as male. While in the bathroom, a woman angrily confronted Ruiz, and left the bathroom. When Ruiz later exited the bathroom, three men approached Ruiz and proceeded to assault him.

• November 19–20 – A   mass shooting   at a gay bar in   Colorado Springs, Colorado   leaves five people dead and 25 injured.

It is unbelievable in this "free" country and at this time this shit is happening.  I don't watch or read the news anymore because it throws me into a deep depression.  

Makes me very sad that the USA has fallen behind so many of the other developed nations.  

It is unbelievable in this "free" country and at this time this shit is happening.

Apparently we are only 'free" to discriminate against minorities we don't like. I was debating all this last night with my kid. He's a good kid, but seems swayed by whatever news he heard last. This week it's populist right... last time it was populist left. I made him some suggestions on news sources.

He's a good kid, but seems swayed by whatever news he heard last.

My son and I get into it when he strays too far left.  He complains about programs we used to enjoy together and points out all the "flaws" he sees in his "enlightened" state.  I just look at him and say "You know what???? Sometimes I just like to watch something and laugh and not analyze it."  His ex was a millennial who thought she knew EVEYRTHING and told us so.  I do not miss her.  

To be told constantly they are not worthy of service, respect, love or family... that they are evil and sinful... that they are less than their neighbor... that their neighbor would rather run them out of town by beating or even killing them if he/she could get away with it.. is a horrible thing to subject American citizens to. 

I appreciate the substance, and agree, it's a horrible thing. You cannot legislate morals though. 

More than 1 in 8 LGBTQ+ people live in a state where they can be refused medical treatment because they are queer. Where will it stop if it's not stopped here?

Read an article, containing that assertion, that referenced South Carolina's bill introduced in 2021. My thoughts on medical treatment are these. With respect to protections afforded a healthcare provider, that protection can be limited further than what is currently provided for. I'm sure S.C.'s bill mirrors the various other states' laws, and it requires provision of emergency medical treatment. I think it can go further than that. 

My gut tells me, from the aforementioned article, that we aren't really concerned with routine care though, e.g. getting a flu shot. The highlighted instance of discrimination is a tale of a trans woman, who had a fabulous 1.5 year relationship with her doctor, which allegedly changed when "she  came out to him as transgender, and she said he suddenly became very cold." No offense to the subject of the  story, but I looked her up, and I find it impossible to believe that the doctor did not know, prior to the "revelation." If the looks didn't give her away, the blood tests, and various other examinations during the fabulous relationship, would have. So, something happened in the doctor/patient relationship, IMO. What could it have been? Likely, the relationship deteriorated when she asked her doctor to start giving her hormone replacement therapy, which he refused. (which is mentioned in the article, but glanced over) That's the real issue. Can you force a medical professional to provide hormone replacement therapy, gender reassignment, etc.? I don't think you should be able to. 

If, as example, a Catholic hospital, or medical group, provides a general service, it should not be able to deny that service based on sex, sexual orientation, and all of the other buzzwords related thereto. Knee replacement? Shouldn't matter who you are, and likely doesn't. Gender reassignment surgery? I doubt they are providing that service. Why force them to?

I think you can approach this from a position of love and kindness, and not agree with it. Medical treatment is obviously a different kind of service than hair care. I would be opposed to a denial of medical care based on a person's identity. Question is, what kind of care are we talking about? In the end, you go to a doctor to receive the doctor's input and advice on what care and treatment you need, according to the professional opinion of the doctor. Legislation that requires the provision of services obliterates that concept, and overrides the doctor's professional opinion. 

With the resurgence of the LGBTQ+ boogieman...

Look. Live and let live, but this shit isn't helping dispose of any notions. 

You cannot legislate morals though. 

No, but it hasn't stopped red states trying to legislate morality through anti-trans bans and anti-abortion bans.

Medical treatment is obviously a different kind of service than hair care.

Why should we be able to pick and chose which services are okay to deny people be it life saving care, a haircut or a cake? Unless one works for a church performing church duties one should provide that service to all people without reasonable exception. IF THEY CANNOT they should not be in business. Reasonable exceptions are things like health risks, violence or criminality. 

sometimes I have to unwind the fascism out of my oldest, but he works at a trucking company where he's subjected to nonstop fascist bullshit by brainwashed OTR truck drivers that watch FOX at the truckstops and listen to goober tunes all day long.

Just imagine if all the LGBT hairdressers stopped serving straight people. We’d turn into Bad Hair Nation.

Hey, don't laugh the hairdresser was straight.

yikes. I wonder if they let him keep the bowl...

I thought having a gay hairdresser was a status symbol for women. I've had a few as clients and they were not hurting for money. I was married before and the ex was fiercely loyal to her hairdresser, so I can't imagine any sane woman dumping her hairdresser for something so trivial as sexual preference.

"please seek services at a local pet groomer"

Says the dog.

All this talk of “it’s not a problem just go someplace else” serves only to normalize the same type of bigotry that normalized separate drinking fountains and seating in the back of the bus.  

Some people will NEVER get that & then near Christmas time rail against those that say Happy Holidays as persecuting Christians.

fucking thumpers wear their fake xtianity on the same sleeve they wipe their nose on...